Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Saturday, August 16, 2008

With millions of religious voters in the balance, John McCain and Barack Obama will appear Saturday evening at a forum on religious faith sponsored by prominent evangelist Rick Warren. The forum will be broadcast live at 8 p.m. Eastern on CNN and Fox News.

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"I'm sure that America will see that, like me, Barack Obama is a man of truth and family values."

--John "Hide the Salami and Hide in the Bathroom"
Edwards

Cookfish-
I thought that quote was from the dude who dumped his children and crippled wife to marry a heiress 20 years his junior to finance his political career.

I'm looking forward to watching this forum.

I respect and admire Rick Warren. Wish there were more evangelicals like him. Puts his actions where his rhetoric is.

Takes, what? $50,000 a year salary or something really low like that?

I could never be a politician.
The first time I had get on my knees on National TV to one of those asswipes-I'd wring his fuckin' useless neck.
Religion DOES have it's place in American life.
And I guarantee it's not in politics or governance.

Fuck faith-based politics. Anybody stupid enough to vote on faith is too stupid to vote.

Tax the churches!!!

My prediction?

Obama comes off smooth but not slick. He doesn't promise them anything specific but uses the right church words and "feels their pain" like Billy used to do. He is a hit.

McCain forgets where he is and offers to get Cindy to take off her shirt.

what's interesting is that while Rick Warren is hosting this debate, the Dobson people are praying for rain to occur on Obama's stadium appearance. (what if it don't rain/)


Talk about the invisible hand in the American economy.

Talk about the greatness of America.

Christianity is an integral part of America's greatness.

Connect the dots.

Sorry, but about all I can muster up for this one is a great big yawn.

Guess it's on right now since it's now about 5:15 p.m.
I'll check it out for a few minutes.

"Christianity is an integral part of America's greatness."

--------

Yeah. It was a part of hitlers 'greatness' too...

Obama sounds completely comfortable talking about matters of faith. It has to be weird for Republicans to face a candidate with that going for him.

McCain forgets where he is and offers to get Cindy to take off her shirt.

~SilverIronist

FF!

Be Well.

/Off fer sushi. Back later.

Here is the problem with organized religion in politics.

Politics, diplomacy, compromise. These are all means to water down or even conceal meaning and to hide the truth.

Religion people tend to think they know the answers to the questions that are important to them. This automatically means in a quantum universe that they are 50% right and/or 50% wrong at any given moment. But religion has a very specific primary mission. To grow the religion.

Put these 2 together and whatta ya have? instant theocracy, That feeds off the blood of the believers. add a dash of facism for flavor.

This is my John McSame recipe for failure on a grand scale - even surpassing Bush.

you know he's gonna be kissing some talibaptist ass in the debate.

The little I've seen so far Obama is doing quite well in his answers.

I also like the extra gray Obama is now showing in his hair. The gray gives his appearance some "gravitas" and looks more distinguished. Before Obama -- besides being a relative unknown -- just seemed to look too young for the position of President. The touch of gray in his hair looks better.

soon dbthom (that's douche bag, dirt bag is too kind) will be posting on here something "ears".
he looked good.

This is a good thing. I like the format.

Now there running a McCain ad about 'higher taxes'.

Well, if you make less than $250,000 a year you're going to pay less
This is what's wrong with politics.

Just saw a NOW-With Bill Moyer on Ralph Reed and Jack Abramoff.

Rick Warren is a man who you secular humanists should respect--he puts his money, his life and his actions where his faith talk is.
He's poured MILIIONS into Africa, the poor, those with AIDS.

And many Christians HATE him for it.

i was not voted miss congeniality again this year?

I'd give him my vote for miss congeniality.

Rick Warren IS a Christian - practicing Christianity in his deeds

He could very well become this generation's Billy Graham in influence as a man everyone respects

You're right, Rcade, Obama is better on faith than McCain.

He loses us when he says it's fine to let a baby that is born *despite* an abortion procedure die of neglect.

"He loses us when he says it's fine to let a baby that is born *despite* an abortion procedure die of neglect."

Huh?

he is of the emergent church variety, a.u. think wide gate and it being "all about me" type christian. the person who runs fox news also owns zondervan - the publisher of all his "purported drivel church" nonsense. think about it. his books are bought by millions, yet there are people starving to death in his own neighborhood - so he ONLY takes a small salary from his church - why does he even need one?


Rick Warren is a man who you secular humanists should respect--he puts his money, his life and his actions where his faith talk is.
He's poured MILIIONS into Africa, the poor, those with AIDS.

Posted by kirk at 2008-08-16 09:03 PM

My friends, I guess that makes him the exception.
Says a lot for modern "christians" when the stand-out characteristic for a preacher is that he lives what he preaches.

again with POW stories?

come on answer the questions

Rick Warren is a man who you secular humanists should respect--he puts his money, his life and his actions where his faith talk is.

No surprise that Nanc doesn't like him.

Nanc,

Read up on the man. He's spent millions on Africa *of his own money*

Rcade,
John McCain just kicked ass in his question on religion.

You Obama fans better hope for a lot less of these debates (and I'm not a huge fan of McCain).

Oh, man, is McCain working his POW stint in 'Nam for all it's worth or what.
He brings it up every other sentence.

NO WAY is this an real audience from California. Johnny McBigOil says he wants off shore drilling and this entire "Californian" audience in the auditorium breaks into applause? I think McCain's "California" audience all just landed at LAX about 3 hours ago as they flew in from Houston. McPhony.

Reverand Warren asked Obama to answer the questions without giving his Campaign speech, than turned to allow McCain every opportunity to say his Campaign speech.

Every question allowed McCain to give his stale Campaign speech, Rev. Warren was not fair as he allowed McCain to repeat over an over his memorized Campaign CRAP!!!!!

Not much accomplished other than it is clear that Obama thinks much better on his feet that Sen. McCain, on to the next round, Plus for Obama for going into the Lions Den!!!!!!

He loses us when he says it's fine to let a baby that is born *despite* an abortion procedure die of neglect.

What about all the post-birth children living on the streets without guidance or a chance? Aren't they just as important as ex-vitro fetuses too?

When the pro-life movement starts building "childcare" facilities all across America to deal with unwanted and neglected children already born and living, then we can talk about the crisis among fetuses with more vigor and integrity. Why is the potentiality of life more important than life already birthed and living amongst us that no one cares about nor takes care of until they encounter the criminal justice system? Then we lock them up or kill them over what we as a society allowed them to become due to lack of involved parenting and mere proper, respectful childhood guidance.

Every question allowed McCain to give his stale Campaign speech, Rev. Warren was not fair as he allowed McCain to repeat over an over his memorized Campaign CRAP!!!!!

WAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!

what's up with the faces he's making my friends?

If you have thousands a year to spend sending your kids to private school I'm sure you agree with McCain.

Suck that money out of the public school system and millions more will have less to work with.

I am not in CA but god knows I have been there enough in regards to my career. Lake Forest is in Orange County so I am not so surprised by this audience, big RNC crowd. No flying in necessary.

i dont want to take any money from the rich, i want everybody to be rich.

jesus this guy isn't in reality.

whoa wait did he just say give everybody 7 grand for kids?

wowza

I'm really tired of "my friends."

If you've lost your job a $5000 tax credit isn't going to do diddley squat buying you health care.

listen here my friend i'll give you a $5000 dollar tax credit to not be tired with "my friend", my friend.

Tonyroma,

Are you kidding me?

Get your phonebook out right now for the town where you live and look at WHO is running the homeless shelters, soup kitchens, drug rehab centers, battered women's homes and material assistance for women and children (pregnant or not).

It's more Christians than anyone else.

"I can inspire. I can lead"

rossbaird.files.wordpress.com

Yet another irrelevant post by Mr. Fish.

Posted by eatme

Does he post anything else?

It's more Christians than anyone else.

Did I mention Christian's at all? No I didn't. My point was to society as a whole, not just charities. The pro-life movement is largely pro-birth. Why not spend the money on prenatal healthcare services instead of blocking clinics where needy women go for guidance? Most stop right there at birth. That is my point.

I would never look askance at people doing good work.

I think you missed my point.

Russians rolled out as this election's boogie man.

If Putin respected Bush this wouldn't have happened.

Dobson people are praying for rain to occur on Obama's stadium appearance. (what if it don't rain/)

Posted by onna

Does it mean there is no God?

Or simply that he thinks they are a bunch of assholes and laughs at them?

I am hoping for blue skies just to shove it in their collective faces.

"If Putin respected Bush this wouldn't have happened."

if anyone respected bush a lot of shit wouldn't have happened my friends.

If you've lost your job a $5000 tax credit isn't going to do diddley squat buying you health care.

The part McCain didn't mention is that he will tax your healthcare benefits from your employer as income. That's why he touts the tax credit.

Its just another tax on the workers disproportionately to pay for more cuts for the wealthy.

McCain Backs Worker's Tax Hike on Healthcare
www.drudge.com

McCain looks better than I thought he would, I like what he's saying about nuclear energy. How does Obama feel about nuclear energy? I ask because my internet connection is very crippled and The Retort is only one of a very few sites that works relatively normal or I'd look it up myself.


I'm really tired of "my friends."

Posted by YAV

It reminds me of some snake oil hukster used car salesman talk.

If anyone really thinks he is their friend (unless of course they have millions of dollars to give him), they have a missing chromosome.

You can't say pandering doesn't work when you have the right audience.

Got ya, tonyroma.

I think we can do BOTH.
We are talking about 3000 abortions per day, and a hurting woman behind every one of those

That's perverse.

You may not agree with the harm and accompanying needs, but they're real and maybe you could *try* and respect those of us who do both.

Oh, and did I mention I was a POW 40 years ago?

If you have thousands a year to spend sending your kids to private school I'm sure you agree with McCain.

Suck that money out of the public school system and millions more will have less to work with

I believe the opposite will be true, won't it? The people who send their kids to private schools still pay school taxes regardless. Therefore that means more $$$/student since fewer students would be in the public system.

Its just another tax on the workers disproportionately to pay for more cuts for the wealthy.


McCain Backs Worker's Tax Hike on Healthcare
www.drudge.com

Posted by tonyroma

The only people who make out under his plan are people currently without insurance and $12000 per year to pay for it.

You can almost hear the employers across America planning to dump health plans if this old fool is elected.

JAY

Obama's for nuclear. He wants to ensure we can safely store nuclear waste.

I believe the opposite will be true, won't it?

Posted by goatman

You forgot 1/2 the equation.

You forgot 1/2 the equation.

Which half. Enlighten me.

McCain wants a $5000 tax credit for health insurance.
Whoa, Johnny, you haven't been pricing the cost of health insurance lately, have ya?

My relative's health insurance policies (Medicare and a Medicare supplemental health insurance policy) ran $4800 a year. That was for ONE person. You can imagine how much it would be to pay for health insurance for a family of four.

But then ol' Johnny has NEVER had to pay for his own health insurance has he.
Johnny McOutofTouch doesn't have a clue as to the cost of health insurance these days. Stupido.

This was a great format.

John McCain kicked butt--It was the best I have ever seen him.

Obama couldn't or wouldn't answer some questions--abortion, marriage and his answer on Clarence Thomas was the worse answer ever given.

I counted those pesky "My friends" from McCain 13 times.

I stopped counting the ummm ahhh umm um ua from Obama at 64.

I believe the opposite will be true, won't it? The people who send their kids to private schools still pay school taxes regardless. Therefore that means more $$$/student since fewer students would be in the public system.

Posted by goatman at 2008-08-16 09:53 PM

No goat, I think AU's right here. And I'm a proponent of voucher systems and school competition.

The idea being, everyone currently in private school pays into the system, but receives no benefits. So the public school system gets more per child.

If you move to a voucher system, suddenly all those private school kids are dumped into the system and once again feeding from the trough.

That being said, its not unlikely that private school systems could operate more effectively on a smaller per child budget.

Obama couldn't or wouldn't answer some questions--abortion, marriage and his answer on Clarence Thomas was the worse answer ever given.
great smurphy is out....Obama got quit a round of applause for his thomas answer. maybe you had the volume down.

You may not agree with the harm and accompanying needs, but they're real and maybe you could *try* and respect those of us who do both.

I do. But I don't respect those who demagogue the issue for politics sake without ever considering the other side of the equation.

My belief tells me that souls cannot be created nor destroyed. Bodies, yes; souls no. But that's what I believe. I know others feel differently and I can respect that, if respect is given in return. I believe that the Divine in us is the spirit, not the flesh; so you might understand why I'm not enamored with this entire debate on its current terms.

No goat, I think AU's right here. And I'm a proponent of voucher systems and school competition.

My bad. I didn't know vouchers were involved. I did not see that mentioned in this thread.

For the record, I am against vouchers and private schools. Kids of all social classes should be mixed. They learn from each other. It's a sin to segregate society's best and brightest from the rest.

Obama better quit doing debates.

I really can't believe he did so bad and McCain did so well.

Which half. Enlighten me.

Posted by goatman

The money half.

If you take more money out of the education system per student than it costs to educate that student then the students left in the system are placed at a disadvantage.

This is the neocon agenda.

GOATMAN

The 'voucher system' pulls money out of the public school funding and allows people to use it to pay for private school - thereby removing funding from the public school system.

OK swimming's starting at the Olympics.

The next hour we have Torres swimming for a gold, and Phelps for his potential 8th these games.....

Glad I caught the forum.

Obama did well in relatively unfriendly territory.

McCain sounded rehearsed and said just what the evangelical right wants to hear.

But, good job to both.

The 'voucher system' pulls money out of the public school funding and allows people to use it to pay for private school - thereby removing funding from the public school system.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2008-08-16 10:07 PM

It also gives more students the opportunity to attend private schools.

Funny enough, I know you and Goat are on the same side of this issue.

Johnny McOutofTouch doesn't have a clue as to the cost of health insurance these days. Stupido.

Posted by CalifChris

Not only that, but his plan will end the income tax deduction that businesses get for paying for employees health plans. How many employers gonna continue paying for something they cannot deduct?

Not many IMHO.

It also gives more students the opportunity to attend private schools.


Funny enough, I know you and Goat are on the same side of this issue.

Posted by GustoGus at

Except special needs kids since a private school can refuse them.

Tonyroma,
I respect your position. Have a good night.

Neither one slammed (or even talked about) the other guy.

That was a good format too.

BTW, those of you who are not all that familiar of the inside workings of evangelical Christianity should know that Rick Warren is absolutely HATED by millions of conservative Christians. They say worse things about him than they do about atheist drag queen abortionists. Seriously.

Stuff like "antichrist."

Yes--there were some Obama fans in the house that clapped for his answers on everything.

He said Thomas first because Thomas is not considered black enough by the black community.

Thomas and Scalia have been identical on their votes--I think 90-95% of the time--maybe more.

But he goes for Thomas the only black SCOTUS--for a reason--it was code.

His answer on evil was pathetic.

Funny enough, I know you and Goat are on the same side of this issue.

I have several teachers in my immediate and extended family. They are the ones who convinced me that private schools have a negative impact on society.

I really with the MSM would focus on McCain's phony claim Obama would raise taxes - sure, if you make over $250,000 or more a year. Rolled back to where they were before.

Everyone else would pay LESS under Obama's plan.

"It also gives more students the opportunity to attend private schools."
true, bit on the flip side it takes away even more money from public schools. how are they to improve with less funding?
It's kinda like the oil arguement. they need their massive tax breaks in order to keep finding oil. if they don't get them then they will fail.

MURPHY

Thomas is a disengaged SCOTUS judge.

He has YET to ask a SINGLE question during arguments before the court. It's only been what? 20 years.

Come on now. Be honest. It's hardly about his skin color. That's a ridiculous claim ao make.

Except special needs kids since a private school can refuse them.

Posted by 726 at 2008-08-16 10:12 PM

726. I didn't outline an entire plan or even discuss any sort of integration. Obviously there's problems with a voucher system, but i think its a system at least worth exploring. Perhaps public schools could remain as a net, perhaps in a competitive market special needs schools would crop up that are better equipped to deal with special needs kids. There are a whole host of ways to work around "special needs kids".

As there are with "problem children". We have arguably the greatest system of universities, colleges and junior colleges in the world, shifting our primary education towards mimicing that system doesn't strike me as a bad idea.

Would have been easier if I owned a laptop but the exercise was great!
Had to run from the den to the kitchen everytime I wanted to post a comment.

How can McCain even talk about a VP that's pro-choice after tonight?

AU,


Thomas asks questions, they just happen to be few and far between.

That said, his fellow justices are extremely inquisitive and really put him in a situation where he's able to ascertain what he needs to know via his colleagues' questions.

Also, he's not the first justice on SCOTUS to remain mostly silent when it comes to asking questions.


PS - He and justice Breyer like to sit side-by-side so they can whisper jokes to eachother and pass funny notes back and forth (I am serious).


Thomas is well-liked by his colleagues and he makes a point of learning the names of each and every clerk who passes through the annals of the court.

All of that said, he definitely was one of the more under-qualified justices to ever sit on the court and his jurisprudence is a tad extreme. What I mean by this is that he doesn't have a lot of respect for Starre Decisis. He'd gladly overturn a prior ruling that he felt was wrong. He's the closest thing we have to a Conservative activist judge on the court.

Perhaps public schools could remain as a net,

Well of course they would, but a voucher plan would siphon off the best students that require the least resources and leave the rest that would require more resources. All while draining resources from a school system that is already straining to make do with less and less.

That sounds to me like the recipe for the death of public education. Of course that is the neocon agenda. Then only "smart" kids would be able to attend school, the rest can become slave labor.

A neocon Utopia.

CC

You thinking of contending in the "TV/Blogger 1500" next Olympics? I'm up to Olympic level myself, but decided to sit it out until next Olympics...

LOL

Rick Warren's questions were better than just about anything the media has asked in prior debates. After the forum, when CNN's professional journalists got to weigh in, they spent the first 10 minutes talking about how the candidates appeared and what it was like when they shook hands.

As a journalism graduate, what the hell is wrong with my field? The two best debates/forums of the campaign thus far have been Warren's event and the YouTube debates where regular people got to ask questions.

Why is it that the last person in the world you'd expect to ask an intelligent question is a journalist, a person who went to college to learn how to ask good questions?

Ugh.

I added .8 to the difficulty level of my routine by eating pita sandwiches at the same time...

May be JUST enough to beat the Chinese..

That's a ridiculous claim ao make.


Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2008-08-16 10:17 PM


Remember you heard it here first...


Ginzburg wasn't even a judge --she was an ACLU attorney--talk about underqualified!

RCADE

TV journalism has sadly turned into a beauty contest.

It also gives more students the opportunity to attend private schools.

Yes, but the good private schools will set tuition higher then the amount of the vouchers, taking the vouchers plus more money from those who can afford it, while forcing students of families with lesser means into the schools that are not as good comparitively. Education will continue to have many of the same problems it has now. The disparity between good and bad education may become even worse, as those who can't afford the vouchers(plus) schools will be left with a choise of school that will back them in on vouchers(only).

How will a voucher system improve education? On a voucher system education will be in the hands of people more interested in making profits then teaching our kids.

Check that on Judge Ginzberg--

Prior to her appointment with the Supreme Court, Ginsburg served as a federal judge for 13 years on the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. In practice, she spent a considerable portion of her career as an advocate for the equal citizenship status of women and men as a constitutional principle. She engaged in advocacy as a volunteer lawyer for the American Civil Liberties Union, and in the 1970s, was a member of the ACLU's Board and one of its General Counsel. She served as a professor at Rutgers University School of Law and Columbia Law School.

Nightline being a sad casualty of the march from journalism to entertainment.

God, I mess Ted Koppel's probative questioning.

Remember you heard it here first...

Ginzburg?

Ok - whoever the hell that is. Are you referring to Ruth Bader Ginsburg?

Prior to her appointment with the Supreme Court, Ginsburg served as a federal judge for 13 years on the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit.

Your track record is abysmal.

You thinking of contending in the "TV/Blogger 1500" next Olympics>

I'll have to let you know what my speed is after I finish blogging the upcoming debates in October. That should give me enough practice running back and from from the den tv to the computer in the kitchen that maybe I can be a contender in 2012.

Well of course they would, but a voucher plan would siphon off the best students that require the least resources and leave the rest that would require more resources. All while draining resources from a school system that is already straining to make do with less and less.

That sounds to me like the recipe for the death of public education. Of course that is the neocon agenda. Then only "smart" kids would be able to attend school, the rest can become slave labor.

A neocon Utopia.

Posted by 726 at 2008-08-16 10:24 P

Well its tough to have a legitimate conversation with someone who is getting their arguments from some dystopic sci-fi novel.

I think I recently read an article about switzerland moving to a voucher system some 10 years ago. They claim to be having a fair amount of success with the program and it is pretty popular publicly (especially interesting in a system such as switzerlands).

I'm pretty sure Minnesota has also done some testign with it, with mixxed results.

I'm not proclaiming it to be the panacea of educational system, but I do think its worth exploring more in different markets to see what tweaks could be made to make it workable, and perhaps even.....if we hold our breath and wish really hard...an improvement.

Ok, Murphy, you caught yourself on that one.

Now who the hell is Ginzberg and why should anyone care?

MURPHY

2 posts up you claimed Ginsburg hadn't been a judge.

13 years on the Federal Appeals Court doesn't count?

The ACLU fights for 'Civil Liberties' that you enjoy yourself.

Check that on Judge Ginzberg--

You probably shouldn't shoot the gun if your not sure you have the correct ammo.



How will a voucher system improve education? On a voucher system education will be in the hands of people more interested in making profits then teaching our kids.

Posted by Whatsleft at 2008-08-16 10:29 PM |

You mean like our current University system. My what a drastic failure those have been...

Public schools need competition--they suck right now--

The teachers who are good --teach science, math or teach is inner city scools need higher pay.

That --Obama (and McCain) I give credit in recognizing. Obama more because he goes against the NEA union which will never give merit pay unless forced by laws.

Fire the bad ones--the ones that get busted for preying on kids--so they can't go to another school and start all over again.

Vouchers are a way to even out the opportunity for kids who are stuck in poor performing schools to get out.

Murph,


A couple of additional points regarding justice Ginsburg:

After blocking countless, lower Clinton appointments, when the spot opened on the court he gave the Republican party a short-list and the most approved-of candidate on that list was Ginsburg.

Scalia, even contacter her as well as Clinton and asked if they thought it would help her nomination if he said bad things about her (I am serious).

She was a crusader as a lawyer, but took on a brilliant tack. She wanted to advance women's rights. So, she would seek out grievances where a man was discriminated against and would snatch the case. What she was trying to do was create a legal precedent but was doing so by representing a man, knowing full well that said precedent would carry over to women's causes.


I don't care for her jurisprudence as I feel that she takes too broad of a view of the text contained within the Constitution. That said, she really is a pretty remarkable woman.

CC

I'd really consider adding messy pita pocket sandwiches for that extra level of difficulty.

You saw how it helped some of the gymnast's scores this year to have that extra .8.

Hope to see you in London in 2012 !! I'll be rooting for you.

"California Christine, the American, is a strong contender this year, Bob."

"You're so right. She did really well the last two World Cup TV/Blogger Competitions. A definite favorite this year to take the gold. Frank, NO one has matched her time from couch to keyboard. This ought to be VERY interesting, Frank!".

You mean like our current University system. My what a drastic failure those have been...

They pick who they admit. How successful will public schools or private schools be if they could do the same?

"Your track record is abysmal."

It was just one week ago where these prognosticators were claiming that the Edwards story (remember that?) had "long legs" and was going to "last to the convention" and that it was going to "sink Obama."

Abysmal track record, indeed.

if one could get past the ums, butbutbutbuts, uhs, mmmms and such, obama may be able to make a complete sentence one day.

the big question is, "whatever happened to the separation of church and state?"

and,

when are the muzlims going to host one of these?

mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de

PDF.. just be warned

Sorry Yav et al--I checked myself--is that a self-retorting retort?


Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2008-08-16 10:17 PM

Remember you heard it here first...


Yav scroll up to AU post about Clarence Thomas and mine--Obama was using code to name Thomas--

Truth,


A track-record pertains to prior performance.

What you are ripping is a prediction - we all make them and are all wrong at some point or another.

"That said, his fellow justices are extremely inquisitive and really put him in a situation where he's able to ascertain what he needs to know via his colleagues' questions."

Sounds like a typical black man smurphy, lettin others do the work for him.

your replies are consistently weak.

when does junior high start in your district? once you're back in the 8th grade we won't have to read your crap.

You mean like our current University system. My what a drastic failure those have been...

How are colleges comprised of a voucher system?

Heh heh my friends, kicking the cripple to the curb wasn't my finest hour.

John MehCain

CJ--maybe you should direct your insult to Jeff--that is his answer...

CJK,


WTF are you talking about?

Why have 9 individuals peppering away with questions when the information needed can be ascertained by having 6 individuals firing away?

"if one could get past the ums, butbutbutbuts, uhs, mmmms and such, obama may be able to make a complete sentence one day."

You bet.

CJ--maybe you should direct your insult to Jeff--that is his answer...

Precisely.

Rein--

Both candidates gave honest answers to the moral regreat question.

Obama on drugs and McCain on his first marriage.

"Ginzburg wasn't even a judge --she was an ACLU attorney--talk about underqualified!"

It wouldn't be a Murphy post if it didn't contain a deliberate lie or an ignorant falsehood.

smurphy my apologies, regardless, when is you're junior high back in session? i can't wait.

Obama umms ahh ums um um umums --I stopped counting at 64.

McCain --My friends totaled 13...

McCain was surprisingly on top of his game.

Obama needs to go back to Hawaii.

MURPHY

Bullshit on Thomas (his race).

A guy who's NEVER asked a SINGLE question in 20 years during arguments has no business being on the SCOTUS.

Thomas IS the most unqualified Justice on the SCOTUS.

I don't care if someone's blue. They should take an active interest in what's going on. Shows a real lack of interest.

Overall, evidence concerning the market for education suggests that there are
beneficial effects from competition, but up to now, research cannot give clear
answers to the basic questions whether vouchers and school choice will lead to
market-like competition and whether this will lead to better school performance
(cf. Levin, 2002). Potential disadvantages of voucher schemes include significant
financial resources and teachers time diverted to marketing and more weight
given to quantifiable examination results than to what is important. Thus, the
costs of a voucher system may outweigh the expected benefits of introducing
competitive pressure to schools and greater freedom into the provision of education.

Putting the fear's of developing a slave class aside, this is the best most reasoned framing of the school voucher debate I've seen.

As to how Universities are a voucher system, obviously you've never been to community college. In many states, community college is free after meetign certain criteria. And yes, I understand the problem inherent in mandatory education vs. choosing to attend college. But the argument made was that that education for profit leads to poor results, when obviously, at the higher levels of education that hasn't been the case.
Once again, I'm not saying its a perfect argument or system, but it is an idea worth exploring.

"What you are ripping is a prediction - we all make them and are all wrong at some point or another."

Interesting you put it that way. I seem to remember "predictions" about "six weeks, I doubt six months" and flowers and chocolates, and the war will "pay for itself".

Those people are still offering their "predictions."

So much for you own your own words. Say what you want today, it is meaningless tomorrow, where you'll say whatever the fuck you want then.

Null--You need to start again--!

Go read the posts above loser.

A guy who's NEVER asked a SINGLE question in 20 years during arguments has no business being on the SCOTUS.

AU, that's a bit broad. I know the Washington Post did some research and they confirmed he did, in fact, ask one question within the past 2 years.

"Obama umms ahh ums um um umums --I stopped counting at 64."

You bet.

murphy - they ought to have the transcript at politico in the next hour or so - it'll be like counting the "oooh-ooh-ooooohs" in "sympathy for the devil"...just sayin'...

if one could get past the ums, butbutbutbuts, uhs, mmmms and such, obama may be able to make a complete sentence one day

While I agree that while speaking in discussion, Obama's style degrades, that certainly hasn't deterred republicans about their choices in the past.

Truth,

Nothing wrong with owning your own words and I happen to agree regarding the flowers and chocolates thing.

PS - Are you aware that Cheney didn't make that up? The CIA assured him that would be the response the US would get upon the removal of Hussein.

"It wouldn't be a Murphy post if it didn't contain a deliberate lie or an ignorant falsehood."

Apparently so.

AU--you can be critical of Thomas and your litmus test for a justice asking questions or not--

Since I am sure you don't read the transcripts--you don't have anything but a left wing link to prove your ridiculous test for SCOTUS.

How many questions will the SCOTUS ask??--

Why don't you email Joe Biden to ask the next nominee that question and see how that works for you.

Thomas writes 25% of the opinions--majority or dissent for the SCOTUS--EVERY YEAR.

the Law Blog of the Wall Street Journal initiated the "When-Will-Justice-Thomas-Ask-
a-Question Watch", noting that the justice had not asked a single question during oral arguments since February 22, 2006.[48] February 22, 2008, marked the two year anniversary of Thomas's last question during oral argument, a milestone which was noted by several media outlets, including CNN. [49] Another reference to his silence was made in the Boston Legal episode The Court Supreme where Denny Crane made a bet regarding whether Alan Shore could get the fictional Justice Thomas to talk.

But Obama was speaking "code."

Apparently so was the Law blog of the Wall Street Journal.

I don't understand Thomas' refusal to ask questions. It makes him seem intellectually incurious, a bad trait for a Supreme Court jurist.

But I do think it's true sometimes that people who listen are smarter than people who fill every bit of silence with noise. So I'm not sure what to think of him. I do agree with Obama that he wasn't qualified to serve on the court when he was nominated.

As for tonight's forum, I think Obama did an extremely good job of demonstrating the importance of his faith and he'll get some benefit from religious voters. I don't think he won the event, though, because no Democrat would win that crowd over a Republican. McCain's worst answers were often better received by the crowd than Obama's best ones.

"The CIA assured him that would be the response the US would get upon the removal of Hussein."

Meanwhile, the voices calling that assessment "bullshit", at that time, were called "unamerican." And the outcome of the elections of 2002 and 2004 prove my point: No one owns their own words. Say what you want today, it is meaningless tomorrow, where you'll say whatever the fuck you want then.

"Since I am sure you don't read the transcripts" smurphy please enlighten us on how you're sure.
wait though, i wanna make some popcorn, this will be good.

Thomas writes 25% of the opinions--majority or dissent for the SCOTUS--EVERY YEAR.

[citation needed]

Rcade--with all due respect--Obama couldn't or wouldn't answer the question on abortion and the start of life.

He hemmed and hawed on the entire question--in fact we would have to go back to try and figure out what the heck he said.

Obama isn't qualified to serve POTUS--I guess he has something in common them with Thomas..

I'm watching this on TiVo, and just heard the "I can inspire, I can lead" comment by McCain.

Anyone who says that... well, they're not leaders and they cannot not inspire.

discerning christians will vote for discerning christians, imho.

wonder how quickly obama will separate church and state completely if elected? i mean after he woos those ignorant christians?

"Rcade--with all due respect--Obama couldn't or wouldn't answer the question on abortion and the start of life"

smurph, how many questions did mclame answer with "let me just first tell a story."

with all due respect of course

wonder how quickly obama will separate church and state completely if elected? i mean after he woos those ignorant christians?

Posted by nanc at 2008-08-16 11:02 PM |

The shame is in you seeing this as a bad thing.

Nanc, you speak as though Obama's not a Christian. Why is that?


Thomas writes 25% of the opinions--majority or dissent for the SCOTUS--EVERY YEAR.
[citation needed]

~ YAV

FF

That implies Bullshit Murph.

Can you get your ankles down and provide documentation?

But the argument made was that that education for profit leads to poor results,

If you privatize education it will turn out like healthcare. Some get good health care, some get bad health care. Some will gate a good education, other will not. You cannot use universities as a comparison too a voucher system for K-12 unless everyone who wants a college education may easily obtain one.

You mean like our current University system. My what a drastic failure those have been...


Posted by GustoGus

Does every child attend college? Are Universities required to take every applicant?

You are comparing apples to bowling balls.

MURPHY

Supreme Court Clerks do a majority of the work in writing opinions on the justices behalf.

Where the rubber meets the road - where we KNOW a justice is engaged - is when arguments are taking place.

I'm not a left winger. I'm a moderate American citizen who expects more of his public servants than Thomas seems interested in delivering.


wonder how quickly obama will separate church and state completely if elected? i mean after he woos those ignorant christians?
Posted by nanc at 2008-08-16 11:02 PM |
The shame is in you seeing this as a bad thing.

~GUSTOGUS

Newsworthy


Nanc, you speak as though Obama's not a Christian. Why is that?

Posted by YAV

Because nanc has bought into the bullshit.

how many questions did mclame answer with "let me just first tell a story."

Boy, you're not kidding.
And almost every one of his stories were about McCain being a POW.
He milked that one for all it's worth, huh?

PHELPS racing for 8th Gold now

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!!!
!

PHELPS WINS 8th GOLD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here are your cites on Thomas--besides if you listen to C-span--America and the Courts you might learn something.

www.postchronicle.com

www.scotusblog.com

He's written over 300 opinions and been SCOTUS since 1989--you do the math --

SCOTUS only review about 40 or less cases a year.

http://www.aclu.org/scotus/ 1995/index.html

8TH WOW! I'm going to go in and watch.
Have they awarded him the medal yet?

Murphy

Sorry. You're right. Thomas has asked about an average of one question per term.

Wow !!

MURPHY

I don't care about opinions. I care about engagement.

His clerk can write opinions.

.. the problem is that private schools ACTUALLY run off of almuni fundraisers. The actual cost of educating a student is far higher then the fee charged. If vouchers came to reality, there would be more students then that system could support; and it would collapse. Vouchers are a waste of time.

CC

You have time for 3 or 4 laps between now and the medal ceremony.

Bathroom breaks count for an extra .6 level of difficulty.

CC--BS--he had two 2! stories on being a POW.

He did say my friends 13 times though--

Obama's umms um sums umms --I stopped counting at 64.

If you privatize education it will turn out like healthcare. Some get good health care, some get bad health care. Some will gate a good education, other will not. You cannot use universities as a comparison too a voucher system for K-12 unless everyone who wants a college education may easily obtain one.


The most reasonable privatization proposal I've seen is a 100% voucher system. This would give parents more ability to control where their kids attended schools. Furthermore, the vouchers would be standardized in terms of the monetary value attached to the voucher - which is a very progressive means of dsitributing the entitlement expenditure.


The one positive that a 100% voucher system would create is true competition for student enrollment. Enrollment wouldn't be a guarunteed right, thus schools would actually have to demonstrate their worth in order to gain students.


All of that said, much of the problem with the supposed poor performance of inner-city schools isn't really the fault of the school system. When parenting is attrocious and a cultural attitude exists whereby it's a bad thing to be studious, the school is fighting an up-hill battle no matter what.

Rcade--with all due respect--Obama couldn't or wouldn't answer the question on abortion and the start of life.

He did answer the question -- he's pro-choice but would support restrictions on late-term abortions if they had an exception for the health of the mother.

The way Warren framed the question -- when does a baby have human rights? -- made it difficult for a pro-choice politician to answer the question without sounding evasive. But it's simply not true to say that Obama didn't answer it. You just don't like his answer.

f you privatize education it will turn out like healthcare. Some get good health care, some get bad health care. Some will gate a good education, other will not. You cannot use universities as a comparison too a voucher system for K-12 unless everyone who wants a college education may easily obtain one.

Posted by Whatsleft at 2008-08-16 11:04 PM |

Does every child attend college? Are Universities required to take every applicant?

You are comparing apples to bowling balls.

Posted by 726 at 2008-08-16 11:04 PM

The point made was that vouchers would turn education over to people more concerned with making money then education,the counterpoint was that we currently have for-profit education systems that do quite well, so you can't make such a blanket statement without being dishonest. If you want to amend your argument to only include mandatory education and flesh out your argument, by all means do, but "education for money = bad" just doesn't fly.

I acknowledge there are differences in a mandatory education system, but I also believe there are ways to make it work. Currently we throw the baby out with the bathwater by claiming if one student fails, well then they all must fail equally. This is not a recipe for success. There will always be special cases and individuals that fall through any system, building an education system that centers around the lowest common denominator does not work.

Private school systems get more leeway with students, teachers, curriculum's and are less subject to the ebb and flow of current political trends, all good things. Of course "problem children" would still be given an education, and they would get the same resources every other student gets, to pretend giving them equal resources somehow means we're forgetting about them also strikes me as a bit of a stretch.

Anyone who says that... well, they're not leaders and they cannot not inspire.

Posted by truthsetyoufree at 2008-08-16 11:00

That must be a comment about Obama...

AU--go check out the cites above about Thomas.

I think you will change your mind...about who writes what...

SCOTUS only review about 40 or less cases a year.


The Courts caseload has increased steadily to a current total of more than 10,000
cases on the docket per Term. The increase has been rapid in recent years. In 1960, only
2,313 cases were on the docket, and in 1945, only 1,460. Plenary review, with oral arguments
by attorneys, is granted in about 100 cases per Term. Formal written opinions are
delivered in 80 to 90 cases. Approximately 50 to 60 additional cases are disposed of without
granting plenary review. The publication of a Terms written opinions, including concurring
opinions, dissenting opinions, and orders, approaches 5,000 pages. Some opinions are
revised a dozen or more times before they are announced.

www.supremecourtus.gov

Not seeing the "40 or less" there.

smurphy why on earth do you take these indefensible positions?
it's funny.

rcade you have to realize smurphy watched the debates with the volume off.

The assumption of a silent justice is that they believe every possible contingency was covered by the questioning of the other justices or the advocates initial presentations to the court. Common sense tells us that this is a stretch to say the least. Sitting on the highest court in the land comes with responsibility, and one of those is to make sure the law is applied properly based upon the case sitting before the court. I cannot judge Thomas without delving deeper into the intricacies of the cases themselves.

But the failure to ask questions does seem to imply an intellectual laziness that I find disturbing in a Supreme Court justice.

errrr, debate

his answer on Clarence Thomas was the worse answer ever given.

Wot? He just sed he wouldn't have nominated him because he didn't have the legal mind required at the time of his upgrade.

CT sez the least out of all the Supremes and even when he does say sommat he still sez the least.

Obama at least acknowledged Scolia's legal mind. His evil, reptilian but nonetheless well versed in legal matters mind.

McCain answer was the worst EVAR cos it showed wot a total sell out he's become to them agents of intolerance he used to talk about.

Luffed watching the beaming puss of Tony "Psycho" Perkin from the Talibaptist Wingnut Lobby er Family Research Council agreeing wif Johnnyboy on the ole CNN.

Wotta oily sunuva bitch.

Luffed the "Does evil exist and if it does should we negotiate with it, confront it or defeat it?" question.

McLame sez "Evil = Bin Laden" and then launches into his patented "Gates of Hell" speech.

Almost all of McCains material tonight was stump-speak.

Obama, on the other hand, started out by saying that eliminating evil aint ever gonna happen 100% but that that Sisyphysian reality shouldn't stop people from being pro-actively anti-evil.

Interesting that Obama noted that Evil is not just sommat that happens outside the US. Wonder how long it's gonna take before the RTs try spinning that one as Obama saying that America is evil?

Obama spoke from the heart tonight in measured tones with a thoughtfulness and humility that John simply couldn't come close too.

Spud shares Rcade's frustration with the so-called professional journalists who have asked the most inane, trite and off-mark questions in the previous debates.

Those people aren't journalists, they are corporate filters.

Not good.

Be Well.

"That must be a comment about Obama..."

No, it isn't.

"Obama's umms um sums umms --I stopped counting at 64."

You bet.

"rcade you have to realize smurphy watched the debates with the volume off."

LOL

Rcade--you are correct--I did not like the answer because he wouldn't answer it honestly.

He has never voted for the fetus or the baby. Women shouldn't be punished to have a baby--That is Obama's rule of thumb.

He voted against the Born Alive Act after a nurse told him about the botched abortion.

The baby had Downs syndrome and survived the abortion--the medical providers threw it in the trash. The baby dies after 45 minutes in the arms of the nurse, because it is against the law to help the baby or no law to help them if they survive.

Obama said that was OK by him!!!!! No help for the baby--no due process no nothing--it would be punishment for the woman. How he is so callous and devoid of humanity is beyond me.

Just answer the question like he would in front of NARAL and let it all hang out--tell the friggin truth!

"Obama's umms um sums umms --I stopped counting at 64."
You bet.

If McCain would only "umm umm" and THINK before he opened his mouth, it might save us all videos like that.

"Women shouldn't be punished to have a baby"

Flag: Pregnancy as punishment comment

"Rcade--you are correct--I did not like the answer because he wouldn't answer it honestly"

first he couldn't or wouldn't answer the question, now he didn't answer honestly.

what's it gonna be in the next 30 mins smurphy?

"If McCain would only "umm umm" and THINK before he opened his mouth, it might save us all videos like that."

Yav, isn't that the truth!

There will always be special cases and individuals that fall through any system, building an education system that centers around the lowest common denominator does not work.

In my opinion, we've become over-obsessed with the "special needs" student to the detriment of the exceptional achievement students. Every school system needs to spend more money on identifying and nurturing the exceptional students as much as we spend on the special needs children.

My daughter has kept straight A's for 3 years yet still must stay in a classroom that doesn't challenge her at her own level. I'm not against the special needs child, but if we're to be competitive with other nation's best, we must foster a better system for the over-achievers as well.

This is never addressed as well as it should be and is one particular area where private schools do a much superior job over public schools.

Yav--

In 1995 they wrote opinions for 39 cases--every year is different.

Great for the 80-90 cases.

Thomas still writes opinions in about 25% of them.

He writes them --not the clerks as AU proposes.

I"m sick of abortion determining who we elect President. The lack of progress on the plethora of problems we now face as a result hurts 'life' for living Americans.

The Preamble to the Constitution says "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness".

One wedge issue or another isn't going to do a lick of good in helping solve the pressing problems too many Americans now face, and it certainly shouldn't be THE litmus test of who we elect President. It should be the man who can help the MOST of us live better lives.

This is the first generation that won't do better than their parents did.

Flag: Pregnancy as punishment comment

Posted by truthsetyoufree at 2008-08-16 11:29 PM | Reply


That is what Obama said--get over it!

The Preamble to the Constitution says "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness".
AU--

Yeah for the POSTERITY --go think about that word!

Tony,


A lot of school systems address advanced students with advanced programs that are tailored to their aptitude.


Here in Michigan, as my oldest is about to enter 3rd grade he is going into the 'Magnet program'. He had to test and interview in order to qualify.


Regardless, I completely see and agree with your point - we need to 'dumb it up' even more than we need to dumb it down.

Nite y'all.

Enjoyed sharing the night Phelps won his record setting 8th Gold in a single game.

AU (the periodic table of the elements symbol for GOLD)

:-)

(my wife almost took out the chandelier jumping so high when the final swimmer touched the wall LOL)

Obama's umms um sums umms --I stopped counting at 64.

First, some folks accuse Obama of speaking to well. Then, they accuse him of not speaking well enough. The latter is amusing when the people doing the criticizing support/ed that smooth talker Bush. Um, hmmm.

Yeah for the POSTERITY --go think about that word!


Posterior...I think about that word all of the time when it pertains to women....wait a minute...you said posterity...nevermind.

Obama wouldn't know EVIL if it bit him on the butt.

And he wouldn't answer the question--it was a choice question from A-D--and he wouldn't answer it except to blame AMerica for being part of the Evil.

Obama failed tonight--except for the merit pay for teachers--he actually ansered that outright.

There may have been others-

But Mccain wiped the floor with Obama.

funny how that is right gal.

Jeff---Stop!

"Obama, McCain Face Faith Forum"

Luff the alliterative headline.

Spud woulda gone with...

"Obama and McCain, Face to Faith".

But yers was good too.

smurphy watched the debates with the volume off.

~CKJ85

...With really thick beer goggles on and a CD of MC Rove cranked to 11.

Is only possible explanation fer lines like...

McCain was surprisingly on top of his game

Um... Earth to Murphy:

There were exactly zero suprises in McCains panderfest tonight.

Game? McCain aint got game. He is trying to game folk but so far only the morons are buying into his rehashed BushCo policies.

McLame totally mailed in his performance tonight.

Obama, otoh, won hearts and minds tonight.

Believe that.

Be Well.

/G08ama.

Gal,


First, some folks accuse Obama of speaking to well. Then, they accuse him of not speaking well enough.

He speaks extremely well when delivering a prepared speech or reading from a teleprompter. He stammers a lot when speaking on-the-fly.


The latter is amusing when the people doing the criticizing support/ed that smooth talker Bush. Um, hmmm.

Politics isn't zero-sum. That Bush struggles (even moreso than Obama) off-the-cuff doesn't negate the fact that Obama struggles in such a venue as well.

(my wife almost took out the chandelier jumping so high when the final swimmer touched the wall LOL)

I yelled so loud it scared my cat. :-)

Gal-
Cats need that now and then.

good lord smurph you keep going. going on your stupid arguement and your obvious leanings. since obama was raised a muslim isn't he living evil?
answer honestly. i mean i wouldn't want to type that you couldn't or wouldn't answer the question

"With really thick beer goggles on and a CD of MC Rove cranked to 11.


Is only possible explanation fer lines like..."

"these go to 11..."

Hi Jeff,

Okay, with the caveat that Obama struggles to organize and accurately articulate his thoughts while Bush struggles to think and pronounce words correctly. LOL

Difference between a reasonable conservative like Oohrah...

" Both men did well."


And a mindless partisan hack like Murphy...

"But Mccain wiped the floor with Obama."

To me the most unrehearsed and truest answer of the night:

Obama told the Rev. Rick Warren that " we still don't abide by that basic precept of Matthew: that whatever you do for the least of my brothers, you do for me.

"That basic principle applies to poverty. It applies to racism and sexism; it applies to not thinking about providing ladders of opportunity for people to get into the middle class."

THAT's Christianity.

Gal-
Cats need that now and then.

LOL Thanks, Betelg.

Gal,


Which is precisely why I included this qualifier:

That Bush struggles (even moreso than Obama)


Obama, for all of his stammering, speaks clear English.

In the inner-city we have Ebonics.


In the GOP we have Bushonics.

Gal,


Let me take it a step further (Larry loved this analogy, BTW).


Some criticisms of Obama can be construed as racism.

Some criticisms of McCain can be construed as ageism.


Does that mean that some criticisms of Bush can be construed as retardism?


Yes - I made that up myself.

CJ--Obama wasn't raised a muslim--he may have memorized Koranic verses--but not raised muslim.

He was baptized a Christian (at whatever older older age) and he --although he thinks Matthew is great-- he fails on when life begins.

And thanks for the Spoiler Alert AU!

We are still watching track and field.

Phelps is part fish--darn glad he won the 8th.

Last nights' race was unbelievable!

Jeff--FF

smurph really? are you sure you haven't posted here before that he's a muslim?

Um, my friends, "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." Um, my friends, "Eb-dee eb-dee eb-dee ebdee- That's ALL FOLKS."

no shizzy gal.
my friends we must repect russia's boundries,,,er i mean georgia.

Does that mean that some criticisms of Bush can be construed as retardism?

No, but some psychologists claim Bush has a learning disability of some kind. Could be.

"I'm sure that America will see that, like me, Barack Obama is a man of truth and family values."

--John "Hide the Salami and Hide in the Bathroom"
Edwards

Posted by cookfish at 2008-08-16 03:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's funny you bring up infidelity, as the only man on that stage that has cheated on his wife is your boy, John McSame.

commonsense you forgot to end that with...

FACT!

er you mean respect?

But McCain regrets it - he said it was his biggest moral failure. I do wish he'd been asked when he came to that realization. Then again, that could have been quite uncomfortable for Cindy.

Yes--Common and he stated his moral regret was his first marriage.

Obama stated it was drugs--

Fair enough for both--ya think?

Then again, that could have been quite uncomfortable for Cindy.

She could always buy another house to compensate for her discomfort. McCain's Eleven, we could call it.

With the OBVIOUS bias and clearly letting McCain ramble on with campaign rhetoric, I'm SURE that the IRS will be revoking their tax-exempt status like Bush did to that small black church in 04.....right?

No? Hmmmmmm.

Yes--Common and he stated his moral regret was his first marriage.

His failure was marrying his first wife?

no answer smurph?

SUDDENLY it's chic to be christian! well, if you're a "leftist christian".

"Fair enough for both--ya think?"

Did Obama abandon a sick wife for a rich trollop half his age?

McCain's Eleven, we could call it.

Ouch, Gal!! FF!

no nanc, it kinda was a mock of a clown that goes by jimmy dean or something similar

Yes--Common and he stated his moral regret was his first marriage.

Obama stated it was drugs--

Fair enough for both--ya think?

Posted by MURPHY at 2008-08-17 12:05 AM | Reply | Flag:

I was commenting on your fellow neo-con, COOKYFISH, who was trying to equate Edwards affair with Obama....even though it is McCain who cheated on his wife.

Fair enough for both--ya think?

Fair enough, except Obama didn't profit from his moral failings in the same way McCain has.

Fair enough, Murphy. Obama quit drugs. McCain quit his family.

Obama wouldn't know EVIL if it bit him on the butt.

~Smurphy

Are you planning on biting Obama's ass in order to test yer theory?

^_^

And he wouldn't answer the question--it was a choice question from A-D--and he wouldn't answer it except to blame AMerica for being part of the Evil.

The question was answered by Obama but not by McCain.

The option regarding evil were A) Negotiate B) Contain C) Confront or D) Defeat.

Obama made the point that evil by definition was ultimately undeafeatable in a final sense by mortal folk.

He then encouraged folks to be "soldiers" in their own lives who confront evil as a matter of course.

He spoke of the evil in Darfur and on the streets of America.

Compare that level of honesty and introspection to McLame.

Evil? Well, let me tell you a story. There once was a man named Osama Bin Hiding and I promise, that if I'm President I will track OBL to the GATES OF HELL!"

Sound familiar? It should...

On the subject of Osama bin Laden... we will track him down. We will capture him. We will bring him to justice, and I will follow him to the gates of hell.

May 3, 2007.

The senile old coot was on auto-pilot all night. Actually, considering his track record with real planes that was prolly a really, really good idear there.

Obama dealt in thoughts tonight and McLame dealt in soundbytes. On that basis Spud is call it fer Obama.

I don't think he won the event, though, because no Democrat would win that crowd over a Republican. McCain's worst answers were often better received by the crowd than Obama's best ones.

Agreed that McCain will win the larger share of the evangelical vote in November but let's not fergit that he supposed to. Thus any inroads Obama may have made tonight with that crowd is pure gravy.

And inroads were definitely made.

Be Well.

/ Luffed the startled kitty and chandelier stories!
// Spud used to be competitive swimmer way back in the long ago.
/// That Phelps guy is freakin' fast.
//// S'rsly

commonsense you forgot to end that with...

FACT!

Posted by cjk85 at 2008-08-17 12:01 AM | Reply | Flag

I think you have me confused with the trolling rightard known as FWTHOM, formerly 'doubtingthoams'.

Debauchery!
Debauchery!
Debauchery!
Debauchery!
Debauchery!

I feel for Cindy after tonight. The "trollop and c*nt" comments being published are bad enough, but to hear on a National broadcast that your marriage is the result of the biggest moral failure of your spouse has to be less than comforting.

Nulk

He regreted the failure of his first marriage.

Get over it already!

Unless you want a post after post about the pot head and he used to do "Blow" to get out of his funk with trying to find his identity and his lost father who abandoned him and became a double amputee because his father was a alcoholic and then killed himself in the next car crash the father had.....

Want me to keep going??

They gave honest answers to the question.

god dammit i'm sorry comm. dbthom is really out there.

"He regreted the failure of his first marriage."

What do you mean, "the failure"? Is that kinda like "mistakes were made"?

If he really regretted it he would end the political career that was financed by Ms. Moneybags.

"Want me to keep going??"

Go ahead. You look more moronic with each post.

"Unless you want a post after post about the pot head and he used to do "Blow" to get out of his funk with trying to find his identity and his lost father who abandoned him and became a double amputee because his father was a alcoholic and then killed himself in the next car crash the father had.....
Want me to keep going??"

holy rambling sentence, jesus no don't keep going.
maybe when you start the 8th grade this fall they will teach you punctuation.

He regreted the failure of his first marriage.

He sure as hell doesn't regret the money, connections and opportunities marrying Cindy provided him with. Nor does he regret having a pretty, unscarred wife at his side in the role of potential first lady.

Want me to keep going??

What is hypocrisy on this by some some folks is the absolute bashing of Bush for his drug use in college.

But when it comes to the Obama messiah--for doing drugs --it is all ok...

Just checking..

Null if you didn't listen to the forum--then don't post. You missed it...

Obama should end his career for his drug use--just like all you folks say about Bush.

"He regreted the failure of his first marriage."


What do you mean, "the failure"? Is that kinda like "mistakes were made"?

If he had been honest, he would have said, "I regret cheating on and abandoning my first wife after her accident. I regret that I didn't want to look at her after she was disfigured."

Did Obama hurt someone with his drug use, Goofy? Did he dump a sick wife and then run her over with his Golddigger Express?

"What is hypocrisy on this by some some folks is the absolute bashing of Bush for his drug use in college."

college? jesus smurph do you write this shit or is someone else? bush's drug use went beyond his college days.

CJ--when you get a grip on the English language--let us all know with a post.

I think you all must be mistaken. Bush has never used illegal drugs, according to Bush.

CJ--when you get a grip on the English language--let us all know with a post.

You got caught lying again. Deal with it.

But again, I agree with Murphy, re:

Yes--Common and he stated his moral regret was his first marriage.

Obama stated it was drugs--

Fair enough for both--ya think?

Posted by MURPHY at 2008-08-17 12:05 AM | Reply

Obama quit drugs, and McCain quit his family.

did i write that last one in spanish smurphy?

here i'll post it again in english:


"What is hypocrisy on this by some some folks is the absolute bashing of Bush for his drug use in college."


college? jesus smurph do you write this shit or is someone else? bush's drug use went beyond his college days.

there's my post in english

CJ--when you get a grip on the English language--let us all know with a post.

Like I said, when Bush supporters tell other people to get a grip on the English language, it's rather amusing.

i know, my english is horrible.

"You got caught lying again. Deal with it."

Yet again? Like I said earlier, every Murphy post contains either a deliberate lie/smear or a falsehood based on ignorance of the facts.

"He regreted the failure of his first marriage."

Wot he regrets is the fact that his coldhearted treatment of his first wife and kids limited his role within the GOP fer decades. It has, to this day, earned him a lot of scorn and resentment from many folks within his own party.

Not to mention a lot of jabs from Spud.

Obama's drug use may have hurt himself but McCain's ill usage of the woman who stood by him while he was a PoW hurt other people.

No Real Contest.

08ama '08.

Be Well.

I guess we won't know for sure if Obama sold drugs now will we--because he barely skimmed it in his book and certainly wouldn't want to be totaly truthful.

Yes--Bush was doing drugs till he was what 40? right? And then he became a Christian--much like Obama did when he was 30ish.

Redemption for Obama The One but not for Bush.

Hypocrits.

There is a question that Obama was selling drugs during his time doing them.

But no one here will even think that is a possibility--because he is the One--and would never sell drugs being a user.

"I guess we won't know for sure if Obama sold drugs now will we"

Like I said, every Murphy post contains a lie or a smear.

it's rather amusing.

Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2008-08-17 12:27


Glad I could amuse you.

Bush talks weird--yeah! Obama can't string a sentence together until tomorrow.

But he is great in front of the teleprompter.

Bush is only so so..

But Bush is not the subject of this thread--

"Yes--Bush was doing drugs till he was what 40? right?"

No. Bush has never admitted doing drugs, so I'm sure he never did.

"There is a question that Obama was selling drugs during his time doing them."

There is a question that you are having an affair with someone on this blog.

null - kind of like when you call me your favorite pet names? i mean without really knowing me?

Null--you are a sleazy--loser.

And you lost the debate--

Later gator..

smurphy you are dense. by that same arguement we'll never know if bush sold drugs either.

CJ--you may be right about that--

But to think it could never be Obama selling drugs is delusional.

"There is a question that you are having an affair with someone on this blog."

And I hear it's with a lesbian.

Just a "question".

"null - kind of like when you call me your favorite pet names? i mean without really knowing me?"

What are you talking about, Nanc. I haven't said anything to you in months. You're not worth the time.

Loser Null--go away--loser

But Bush is not the subject of this thread--

Neither is CJ's use of the English language, Murphy, but that didn't stop you from bringing it up.

"And you lost the debate--

Later gator.."

Go ahead and run away you lying smear artist.

BS Gal--

You need to go re-read the posts--he attacked me for MY English.

Null you are boring..

how is that delusional smurph? again, this will be good folks, stayed tuned.

*this post was posted in english my friends

Murphy-
Shouldn't you really respond to the question about your affair? If you don't, it'll look like you have something to hide.

"Null you are boring.."

And you're a pathological liar and smear artist.

And I hear it's with a lesbian.

Hey! I think I'm a lesbian! I probably still wouldn't do Murphy though.

Come to think of it, Murhpy, you brought up Bush yourself when you started talking about Obama's drug use. I guess you are one of those "don't do as I do; do as I tell you to" conservatives. LOL

CJ--you believe Bush may have sold drugs but not Obama and he was in the hood.

You are delusional if you think it is not possible for Obama to be selling drugs. Too afraid to admit it.

Now I have to go--

Later gators..

Heh heh heh, do you know why Chelsea Clinton is so ugly? She was disfigured in a car accident heh heh heh.

Answer the question, Murphy. Are you having an affair with a Drudge lesbian?

fascinating whatsleft

Galo--I did not bring Bush into the conversation.

Nice try though.


And the truth hurts since I am pissing off Null to bring up something so childish as an affair.

Too funny--lol ;o)

later gators? you my friend are an asshole. so everyone that lived in the hood probably sold drugs. and you say i'm delusional?

BS Gal--


You need to go re-read the posts--he attacked me for MY English.

So he did. My apologies, Murphy. OTOH, if we are talking about everybody's English skills, why can't we bring up Bush?

you absolutly did smurphy, comparing bush's and obama's drug use. god you're a d-bag

This thread is sure perking up.

something so childish as an affair.

smurphy

affairs are childish smurphy? interesting insight.

What are you talking about, Nanc. I haven't said anything to you in months. You're not worth the time.

Posted by nullifidian at 2008-08-17 12:39 AM



Ummm....


Shut up Nanc, and post some good music.

Posted by nullifidian at 2008-08-09 01:21 AM



"And the truth hurts since I am pissing off Null to bring up something so childish as an affair."

You're delusional. You don't piss me off. I just think you're dishonest and a moron. You're the Drudge Clown.

I thought you were the one who brought up Bush's drug use:

What is hypocrisy on this by some some folks is the absolute bashing of Bush for his drug use in college.


But when it comes to the Obama messiah--for doing drugs --it is all ok...


Just checking..


Null if you didn't listen to the forum--then don't post. You missed it...


Obama should end his career for his drug use--just like all you folks say about Bush.

No?

I could care less about bringing up Bush--it is a deflection for the One and his lack to string together a sentence on the spot.

Great with the teleprompter though.

And the point with Bush are the hypocrites in bashing Bush but not the One over his drug use.

It's a question CJ if Obama sold in the hood--just like it's a question for Bush to have sold.

See?

You oughta get a life, Jeff, or see a doctor about your obsessive compulsive disorder. Anybody who would bother researching that question has a problem.

Bush did the drugs Obama sold to him?

c r a z y

no smurphy you insinuated that since obama lived in the "hood" as you call it, he had a greater chance of selling drugs.
you don't even know what you type do you?

Null--I hear Clown music when you post....;o)

Cj--you need to keep up...

Too funny--lol ;o)

Murphy,

I'd say I'm glad I amuse you, but when you write things like "And the truth hurts since I am pissing off Null to bring up something so childish as an affair," I realize it is the little world inside your own head that really makes you laugh. That's nice. :-)

oh shit i just noticed some bad english. i used insinuated smurphy, that means something like to lead on.

coming from you smuph, i think i'm good. thanks for the concern though.

Gal--Null hasn't gone after You like he has with other female posters on the DR.

When he starts up with calling you names and then says YOU are having an affair with a lesbian and YOU better deny it.

Come on back and we can agree that Null is a child and a loser.

;o)

I was just Hans-ing you, Null.

I wanted to see what it felt like (it was fun) and you just happened to be my victim.


Anyhow, don't take it personally. A minor mistake such as the one you made is pretty much irrelevant to any meaningful discussion.

"Gal--Null hasn't gone after You like he has with other female posters on the DR."

Playing the "sexist" card, eh, Murphy? Poor little Murphy the victim. Pathetic.

See?

I see alright. You bring up Bush's drug use when speaking of Obama's, and that's okay. I bring up Bush's language skills when speaking of Obama's, and that's verbotten, according to you.

After while, crocodile. People who start rumors shouldn't be surprised at the blow back, which is all Null's lesbian rumor about you is. See?

are you asking gal to leave smurph?

Gal--Null hasn't gone after You like he has with other female posters on the DR.

You think it'sbecause you're female? So now you're going to play a victom? You're funny!

smurphy doesn't see, i promise

"When he starts up with calling you names and then says YOU are having an affair with a lesbian and YOU better deny it."

lol. So do you deny that you're having an affair with a Drudge lesbian? lol

Null hasn't gone after You like he has with other female posters on the DR.


When he starts up with calling you names and then says YOU are having an affair with a lesbian and YOU better deny it.

Murph,


Null has a vagina. "He" was actually hitting on you with "his" comments.

I used to miss boxitch getting hammered by everyone in a thread and being clueless about it.(since he got banned)

But Murphy took over his job.

Playing the "sexist" card, eh, Murphy? Poor little Murphy the victim. Pathetic.

Murphy,

Crocodiles shouldn't be surprised when other's mock their crocodile tears either, my friend.

I'm so confused. : (

No Cj--Gal is always welcome.

And Gal-- Bush is awful with the English language--He has Bushisms --A whole book on it!

And the only pathetic poster is Null Dull..

Playing the "sexist" card, eh


Why not?


The Left plays the sexist card all of the time.

Also...

The racist card
The homobic card
The Xenophobic card
The bigot card

In fact, about the only card the left doesn't play is the anti-religious card.

Murphy debates:

www.youtube.com

Ok, Murphy, here's your chance to put this rumor to rest. Have you ever had an affair with a Drudge lesbian?

Now Gal is trying to sound like McCain--

UGH!

No tears at all--

It's all amusing remember?

And if that was a hit by Null--you need to get another line. Because that one ain't working..;o)

Have you ever had an affair with a Drudge lesbian?

I think you should have asked: Are you still having sex with a Drudge lesbian?

Here's a rhetorical question for everyone: If someone asked you what your greatest moral failing was, what would you answer? That's sort of like an anti-beauty contest question.

Have you ever had an affair with a Drudge lesbian?

I have

Have you ever had an affair with a Drudge lesbian?


Where do you construe lesbianism in any of Murphy's posts?


Furthermore, tread with caution when persecuting the Murph.

I happen to know that Frank Cotton is very fond of her!

Insult her at your own risk.

I just watching a re-cast of the forum. Frankly, I think both candidates did a good job. They seem to be in general agreement with each other on a lot of issues. I think the main thing for me is that this forum reminded me of what I like most about both candidates. I would take either one of them over GWB.

I would take either one of them over GWB.

I'll drink to that!

JeffJ-
I had the privilege the other day to listen to the #1 radio personality in the world go on a rant about how the "affirmative action candidate" (as Limbaugh refers to him) was "playing the race card".

I happen to know that Frank Cotton is very fond of her!

Frank Cotton is a Drudge lesbian?!? Oh my.

"Where do you construe lesbianism in any of Murphy's posts?"

Maybe you ought to read this thread before asking dumb questions. Hint: it's a parody of Murphy's use of innuendo.

Can we continue to have debate forums NOT produced by the MSM? That would be great.

The 21,000 debates they've done for this race(so it seems) were absolute shit. The highlight of them was a snowman asking a presidential candidate a question.

PS- The snowman was better than Russert.

FF for Jeff--

Where is Frank Cotton? I miss him....;o)

And that is an Agreement Flag for Mod

FF for Gal!

The only innuendo is that Null is Dull..

And for that matter--Nullifidian is a lesbian--

Hey that rhymes!

Look Murphy, if you want to be a lesbian, it's cool. Everybody likes lesbians. No problem. Be true to yourself.

You ever watch the "L Word" Murphy? Great program. I'm sure you would enjoy it.

I can see it now. Murphy eating a cardboard box.

"Just practicing".

How did you guys wander into a discussion about being lesbian on this thread? Ya know if your lonely and horny on a Saturday night the internet has lots of sites which might entertain you more than the DR.

My greatest moral failure? Heh. This place isn't anonymous enough for me to answer that honestly.

I don't think Obama or McCain answered that honestly tonight, either.

I'm sure they didn't, just speaking as a human being who has heard that insipid song about fire and rain.

Okay, it's not a bad song, but if I hear it again I'm gonna hurt someone mellow.

Why do people use the term 'lesbian' as a pejorative or put down yet claim there is nothing wrong with being one? I mean, why not just call her a Spaniard or cat owner or coffee drinker? That terms are just as innocuous as 'lesbian'.

Not to Murphy. Duh.

I mean, why not just call her a Spaniard or cat owner or coffee drinker? That terms are just as innocuous as 'lesbian'.

Posted by goatman at 2008-08-17 01:56 AM

I like lesbians more then Spaniards..

Does that count for anything?

Goat- cuz a good # of the right wingers here are really uptight about gay issues.

Actually, being a lesbian is about the only thing that would redeem murphy in my eyes.

I like lesbians more then Spaniards..

Does that count for anything?

LOL Yes it does. How about coffee?

If you'd said "Mexican" instead of "Spaniard" it would have been a close call. I'm not sure how to weigh Murphy's relative dislike of Mexicans and lesbians.

Goat- cuz a good # of the right wingers here are really uptight about gay issues.

I understand that. I did not make myself clear I see after re-reading my post. I guess my real point is that the person calling someone something in a pejorative manner and saying that groupl of people are equal is being hypocritical.

It's exactly as if I called you a 'nigger' as an insult then get up on my soapbox and proclaim I see nothing wrong with black people.

If someone thinks it's insulting to call someone a lesbian -- fine. It's displays a certain modicum of ignorance, but don't heap hypocrisy on top by saying you see nothing wrong with lesbians. To do so is being two-faced. That's all I'm saying.

Goatman-
It's "two-faced" to mildly tease someone who thinks lesbians are going to hell? Curious thought.

(Eternal Damnation - you get that part, right?)

It's "two-faced" to mildly tease someone who thinks lesbians are going to hell? Curious thought.

Re-read my 2:26. I think it is quite clear

Goatman-
Yeah, I got it. "Nigger"="lesbian". Profoundly stupid.

Yeah, I got it.

No you didn't

Profoundly stupid.

You? Yes.

"It's exactly as if I called you a 'nigger' as an insult then get up on my soapbox and proclaim I see nothing wrong with black people."

It's exactly as if you were an endless well of bullshit.

It's exactly as if you were an endless well of bullshit.

What does one say about a person who talks to a well of bullshit?

I'll do you a favor. So as to keep you from further making a fool of yourself by talking to a well of bullshit, I'll stop replying to you tonight.

You're welcome.

Waaah!

"It's exactly as if I called you a 'nigger' as an insult then get up on my soapbox and proclaim I see nothing wrong with black people."

Yeah. It's "exactly" like that.

You have no idea how this little conversation started, do you? It started with Murphy accusing the first truly viable black candidate for the presidency of being a drug dealer.

It's exactly as if I called you a 'nigger' as an insult then get up on my soapbox and proclaim I see nothing wrong with black people.

No, it isn't, but OK.

See...me calling someone who dislikes gays a queer is a lot different than...oh, never mind.

You're not gonna get it, are you?

If you called a KKK member a "nigger" I'd be fine with that.

See...me calling someone who dislikes gays a queer is a lot different than...

I think you don't get it, Alex, if you are defending it. By calling someone a name in a negative manner is exactly the same as saying members of that group are somehow inferior. Otherwise you would not use that term in a pejorative manner. That is so obvious. How can you not understand that.

Then to call a group of people inferior and say, "Oh, BTW, I don't have any problems with that group" is hypocritical. It doesn't matter if it's gays, blacks, whatever. You can't have it both ways. You either feel someone is inferior or you feel they are equal. If you feel they are equal, you do not refer to their racial, sexual, whatever status in a pejorative manner.

Now this applies if it is a property of the person that they cannot change or they were born with. I however see nothing wrong with making Aggie jokes since people choose to go to Texas A&M. But people do not choose to be black or gay, so I do not think it is right to refer to them in a negative way.

That's just me.

Some terms are much MUCH worse than others. That's what you don't get, goatman. Nigger does not equal lesbian.

And I never called lesbians inferior. Murphy believes they are cuz of religion, so calling HER that is offensive to HER. Got it?

Some terms are much MUCH worse than others. That's what you don't get, goatman. Nigger does not equal lesbian.

I do get that. I said in another post tonight (in different words) that I don't go for the "both are bad, but this one isn't so bad, so it's OK" game.

If you feel it's OK to use a minority group as an insult, go for it. You know how I feel. I don't think it's right, no matter if "it's not as bad as. . ."

Actually, 'nigger' isn't as bad as 'cunt' when describing a woman IMO. So I guess 'nigger' is actually OK.

Or do you, not I, get to draw the arbitrary line on what is "bad, but really not as bad as. . ." when using racist or sexist terms?

And I never called lesbians inferior.

I didn't say you were. I was actually referring to Null's posts. But one doesn't have to come out and say verbatim, "Lesbians are inferior". To use the word in a denigrating manner does indeed say that (in the speaker's mind) they are inferior.

I'm actually shocked that you don't understand this simple point, Alex.

Murphy believes they are cuz of religion, so calling HER that is offensive to HER. Got it?

I get what you are saying. I just disagree.

Obama will try to solve our energy problems with alternative fuels and tire gauges - and will revive the welfare state.

McCain is too gung ho for war. Whos his VP and will he live through the election?

I expect the Dems will control Congress. McCain is not the conservative guard I would want but he would be better than Obama. The radical Dems would steer us into the left ditch!

"How did you guys wander into a discussion about being lesbian on this thread? Ya know if your lonely and horny on a Saturday night the internet has lots of sites which might entertain you more than the DR.

Posted by moder8 at 2008-08-17 01:34 AM | Reply | Flag:"

ahhhhhhh, the voice of experience speaks again!

It is amazing that one of two things jump out from this.

Either both, for obvious political reasons, lie about this religious crap or they are both dumb as rocks and brainwashed as about 90% of the population.

The year is 2008 and people should realize by now that Man created God and not the other way around.

"I also like the extra gray Obama is now showing in his hair. The gray gives his appearance some "gravitas" and looks more distinguished. Before Obama -- besides being a relative unknown -- just seemed to look too young for the position of President. The touch of gray in his hair looks better."

WOW! Me too. he looks so presidential with that gray. He has my vote now!

"He loses us when he says it's fine to let a baby that is born *despite* an abortion procedure die of neglect." cjk85: "Huh?"

"Is Obama "Pro-Infanticide"? Analyzing a Vote in the Illinois Senate...Obamas opposition, as a state senator in Illinois, to a 2002 proposed law entitled the Illinois Induced Birth Infant Liability Act-- (the Liability Act--). This proposed legislation would, among other things, have provided a damages action against doctors and hospitals who failed to take proper care of a baby born after a failed abortion. Obama voted against the bill." writ.lp.findlaw.com

"Obama's for nuclear."

Barack Obama says "nuclear power should be explored as an energy option." Now what does that mean? Nuclear power has been around for decades and is considered very safe. Does he not know we already use nuclear power as well as others across the globe?

"I have several teachers in my immediate and extended family. They are the ones who convinced me that private schools have a negative impact on society."

Sounds like the teachers are jealous because private schools provide a better education at a fraction of the cost of public schools. The negative impact on society comes from people who had a private education think for themselves and do not rely on the government to run their lives.

Has any of you actually looked up what the Bible says about when does life begin? And trust me, the Bible clearly states when life begins yet the Right ignores that part of scriptures because it fails to support their extreme positions.

OCU

Good Morning Happy Campers!

Michael Phelps and the USA Swim Team were awesome!


OCU--The Bible says about 28 days the blood runs through.

Leviticus 17:11 or so...


-Obama sounds completely comfortable talking about matters of faith. It has to be weird for Republicans to face a candidate with that going for him.- Rcade

Obama sounds completely comfortable talking about matters of faith. It has to be weird for atheist Dems to have a candidate with that going for him.

" It has to be weird for atheist Dems to have a candidate with that going for him."

Reality is that there are a large number of morons who won't vote for you unless you pay lip service to their fairy tales. I don't think anyone outside the target audience really believes either of these guys believes what he's saying. If toddlers could vote both guys would go on Sesame Street and say Big Bird is not a real person but a close personal friend. This event was no less patronizing.


"say Big Bird is not a real person but a close personal friend"

not only a real person but a close personal friend...

During my time a pow........

Next answer:

My decisions during my time as a pow.....


BTW, I was a pow................


He's getting almost as bad as Rudy's 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11

BTW, I was a pow................


He's getting almost as bad as Rudy's 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11


Posted by fresno500

but nowhere near as bad as change we can believe in, change we can believe in, change we can believe in...on and on...

Posted by CLINTONISKING at 2008-08-17 03:24 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
eMISSED_THE_POINT

McCain's "I was a POW" mantra is akin to Bob Dole yammering on about his WW2 wound, which he apparently equated with stigmata, entitlement, and revealed wisdom.

McCain's mantra has more than a soupcon of self-pity, that he's somehow owed something or should be given special attention because of the status he reminds us about.

It's in no way comparable to Obama's use of the word "change."

McCain's mantra has more than a soupcon of self-pity, that he's somehow owed something or should be given special attention because of the status he reminds us about.


Posted by Doc_Sarvis

Kind of like Obama seems to think he is owed something because he is 1/2 black.

Kind of like Obama seems to think he is owed something because he is 1/2 black.
Posted by CLINTONISKING at 2008-08-17 03:39 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
eMORONIC

I must've missed that one.
When did he say that?
A link would be helpful.
Thanks.
Unless, of course, you're going on your intuition.
Or a dowsing rod.
Or just letting your prejudices pilot the empty plane.

This sound familiar?

A story about Alexander Solzhenitsyn from his times in the Soviet Gulags::

Along with other prisoners, he worked in the fields day after day, in rain and sun, during summer and winter. His life appeared to be nothing more than backbreaking labor and slow starvation. The intense suffering reduced him to a state of despair.

On one particular day, the hopelessness of his situation became too much for him. He saw no reason to continue his struggle, no reason to keep on living. His life made no difference in the world. So he gave up.

Leaving his shovel on the ground, he slowly walked to a crude bench and sat down. He knew that at any moment a guard would order him to stand up, and when he failed to respond, the guard would beat him to death, probably with his own shovel. He had seen it happen to other prisoners.

As he waited, head down, he felt a presence. Slowly he looked up and saw a skinny old prisoner squat down beside him. The man said nothing. Instead, he used a stick to trace in the dirt the sign of the Cross. The man then got back up and returned to his work.

I too enjoyed the forumits format and difference from the usual debates--. What was important to me wasnt the policy stances, I already knew those and would have heard rapid fire responses on those in a debate. I found value in this forum because through the series of questions I gained a much better sense of what motivates each of the candidates in their decision making process. In the thousands of decisions a president makes, I got a much better sense of what will be at the heart of these decisions. I also got a sense of when these candidates will stumble, as all people do, what will be the problems they bring on themselves, and thus our country.

To me, both candidates have the desire to improve our country.

I saw Obama inspired to help those less fortunate. That motivation fits him, not simply because of race, but as someone who came from humble beginnings and saw first hand the needs of those outside even the middle class.

In McCain, I saw a person motivated by a genuine sense of service to others. This too is something that fits him. While not everyone enjoyed hearing his references to his time as a POW, it was a defining period in his life. It showed his character and the importance of service to others in his life.

In looking at the other side of character, the parts of candidates that will hurt not only them, but our country, I also learned.

Obama spoke of selfishness that affected decisions in his youth. I didnt see enough to convince me that this is an issue he has overcome. In the primary he focused on winning the states that would give him the delegates needed to win and not putting many resources into other areas. It is great political strategyone that could very well succeed again. However, focusing only on what he needs instead of our entire country, gives me cause for concern that the selfishness he spoke of is an ongoing issue in his life. We have seen too much of this in the last eight years. A president who is so focused on achieving what he wants, that he simply ignores the broader ramifications of his actions.

In McCain, I saw that very personal failings most affect him. When he makes mistakes, whatever they may be, that damage his relationships with people, especially those he is close with, he carries these mistakes with him. While I heard him speak of his relationship with his ex wife, I didnt hear him specifically reference professional relationships, which is a bit of a double edged sword in my book. I want a president who values his professional relationships, Congress and world leaders for example, but one too, who is not afraid to break ties when necessary. This too has been a failing of George Bushalienating so many and keeping too few too close. Would McCain fall into this trap? I dont know, but I didn't hear enough from him to relieve my concerns.

At the end of it all, I ask myself this, Do I want a president who is motivated in his decisions by a desire to help the less fortunate, but could stumble through the trappings of selfishness or do I want a president who is motivated in his decisions by a desire to serve others, but could stumble in his concern not to damage relationships?-- It seems both of these men have double edged swords.

Where is the greater good and the lesser risk? For me, it is with John McCain.

"Has any of you actually looked up what the Bible says about when does life begin? And trust me, the Bible clearly states when life begins yet the Right ignores that part of scriptures because it fails to support their extreme positions.


OCU"


Posted by oldCADuser

Please let us know what you have found.

Please let us know what you have found.

Ever heard of the breath of God?

The Bible's two references to it are at 22 days when blood begins to flow and the heart begins to beat, and as MONEYWAR said, with 'The Breath of Life'.

The Bible's two references to it are at 22 days when blood begins to flow and the heart begins to beat, and as MONEYWAR said, with 'The Breath of Life'.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Verse(s)?

I was always under the impression that the bible was unclear on the issue.

Leviticus Chapter 17 Verse 11, "The life is in the blood" and in verse 14, "for the life of all flesh is its blood." And even earlier in God's instruction to Noah, the Bible says, "you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood" (Gen. 9:4). And again in Deuteronomy 12:23, "the blood is the life."


And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.--

Genesis 2:7

Only God knows the answer that that one.

I'm not God. Verily I say unto thee I haveth no firm opinion.

I am, however, of the opinion John McCain lifted his story about the North Vietnamese prison guard drawing a cross in the dirt from Alexander Solzhenitsyn's story from his times in the Soviet Gulags as I posted at 3:43

It's much more plausible that a Russian guard would be a Christian than a North Vietnamese guard. Vietnam did not have a long nor strong attachment to Christianity. More Taoism and Buddhism.

Live or Die, slightly off the point of when life begins but still relevant try Exodus 21:22-25. To really understand what it means, the Hebrew is best -

22`And when men strive, and have smitten a pregnant woman, and her children have come out, and there is no mischief, he is certainly fined, as the husband of the woman doth lay upon him, and he hath given through the judges;

23and if there is mischief, then thou hast given life for life,

24eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

25burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

In this passage, the penalties pertain to the woman's injury, not to the fetus. Though it's clear what's being said, you'll find a twisting applied to say that the penalties apply to the fetus. That, of course, is illogical since it would conversely mean that any injury, even death of the woman is inconsequential and without penalty.

I will leave the quotes regarding breathing life and the entry of the soul to the others that have engaged in this conversation.

That's a "Newsworthy" AmericanUnity. When McCain said that last night, I immediately thought "What the hell is a N Vietnamese guard doing drawing a cross in the sand?" It sounded fake at the time. More like he read it and liked it, then used it. Like he did with the names of the Football team members he supposedly gave when he was interrogated. Bullshit pandering.

When McCain was interrogated in Vietnam he loved the Steelers, or was it the Packers?

www.crooksandliars.com

"
Leviticus Chapter 17 Verse 11, "The life is in the blood" and in verse 14, "for the life of all flesh is its blood." And even earlier in God's instruction to Noah, the Bible says, "you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood" (Gen. 9:4). And again in Deuteronomy 12:23, "the blood is the life."


And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.--


Genesis 2:7


Posted by AMERICANUNITY

I never agreed with the usage of the Genesis account to support a "life begins at birth" stance simply because that account didn't involve a pregnancy.

I've never heard of the blood-life verses you posted being used in the debate. Interesting.

David said God knew him in the womb. But that was more poetic writing than any sort of scientific inquiry into when life begins.

I formed my own opinions on the matter outside of the bible.

But they are just my opinions.

McCain is quite the Solzhenitsyn fan:

www.nysun.com

I think he ripped off the story hook, line, and sinker.....

Here's a repost:

A story about Alexander Solzhenitsyn from his times in the Soviet Gulags:

Along with other prisoners, he worked in the fields day after day, in rain and sun, during summer and winter. His life appeared to be nothing more than backbreaking labor and slow starvation. The intense suffering reduced him to a state of despair.

On one particular day, the hopelessness of his situation became too much for him. He saw no reason to continue his struggle, no reason to keep on living. His life made no difference in the world. So he gave up.

Leaving his shovel on the ground, he slowly walked to a crude bench and sat down. He knew that at any moment a guard would order him to stand up, and when he failed to respond, the guard would beat him to death, probably with his own shovel. He had seen it happen to other prisoners.

As he waited, head down, he felt a presence. Slowly he looked up and saw a skinny old prisoner squat down beside him. The man said nothing. Instead, he used a stick to trace in the dirt the sign of the Cross. The man then got back up and returned to his work.

From: The Gulag Archipelago by Alexander Solzhenitsyn - 1973

It also happend in the movie Ben Hur where a Roman soldier draws a cross in the dirt as Ben Hur is tied up.

So Rick Warren now admits there was no "cone of silence" that prevented McCain from hearing the questions Obama was being asked. In fact, McCain wasn't even present at the event until a few minutes before he went on stage.

- I don't think anyone outside the target audience really believes either of these guys believes what he's saying

That's where you would be wrong. Obama is a true believer; he talks to the imaginary man in the sky, as many here would say.

But he's the best an atheist can do, eh?

AU---quit thinking so much--your head is going to explode.

Rick gave the guys the first question and gave them the "themes" of the questions he was going to ask.

He wasn't there to "get" them with gotcha questions.

McCain camp said he did not hear the questions.

But folks will circle tail themselves about the event because Obama did so poorly so McCain Had to have cheated.

What is up with libs and this running theme?

MURPHY

You're the only one who's said Obama did 'so poorly'.

You're an ultrapartisan.

I usually just ignore you, but since you're repeating this, and posting comments to make them appear as though CalifChris did, I have to call you on your BS.

Here's McSolzhenitzyn's christmas video.


www.youtube.com

Want to know why Exxon-John was answering questions before being asked? Pastor Warren was just on CNN, and admitted to Andrea Kramer that McCain was not in the Church for at least the first thirty minutes Obama was talking!

Sorry, Pastor Warren admitted this to Rick Sanchez

McCain was not in the Church for at least the first thirty minutes Obama was talking!

~Aircrafty 1

And even after he finally got there he still wasn't all there.

McLame's presence on the stage reminded Spud of nothing so much as an extra in a George Romero movie.

He's like the living dead.

Easy on the "Living" part.

Be Well.

Here's McSolzhenitzyn's christmas video.

~Reinheitsgebot

John McCain plagiarised Solzhenhitzyn in his oft told and unconfirmable "PoW story"?

The Lulz, the lulz!

Wow, seriously, how many layers of lame is that?

Aha, ya know... now all those crackpot Manchurian candidate theories previously spun about John being a mind controlled agent of the Commies begin to sound a lot less crazy!

^_^

Yes, it is crazy theory but still ...it's comforting to think that somebody has control of McCain mind cos John don't especially.

Wonder if the commies control John's bladder as well or if that's purely down to the Depends adult undergarments?

Be Well.

/Yes, just awful.
//Spud knows.

McCain related a "cross" story to Rick Warren that may have been lifted from a russian novel (plagerized!)
here's a link
rawstory.com

lots of integrity!

ONNA

That story is in two places:

Alexander Solzhenitsyn's "The Gulag Archipelago" - 1973 (of whom McCain is a fan)

and

Ben Hur

The 'cross in the dirt' story that is...

just a curious note, postings of the cross story being phony are being deleted from conservative web sites, being open minded I guess!

it seems that the first time this cross story showed up, McCain told it about an American prisoner (not him) it has since morphed

THE 2000 CAMPAIGN; Excerpt From McCain's Speech:
Many years ago a scared American prisoner of war in Vietnam was tied in torture ropes by his tormentors and left alone in an empty room to suffer through the night. Later in the evening a guard he had never spoken to entered the room and silently loosened the ropes to relieve his suffering. Just before morning, that same guard came back and re-tightened the ropes before his less humanitarian comrades returned. He never said a word to the grateful prisoner, but some months later, on a Christmas morning, as the prisoner stood alone in the prison courtyard, the same good Samaritan walked up to him and stood next to him for a few moments. Then with his sandal, the guard drew a cross in the dirt. Both prisoner and guard both stood wordlessly there for a minute or two, venerating the cross, until the guard rubbed it out and walked away.

WOW, I have lost respect for McCain!

NY Times 2000 link: query.nytimes.com

I think Obama gets some points for even showing up but I have too say I am not sure why people think he did great. That was one of his weaker performances

We have heard both speak and McCain's performance was his best in the campaign, we have all seen him struggle with speaking even with a prompter.

Now we find out that he was in a position to hear the Obama questioning while the world was told he was in a "cone of silence." IT tuns out he was not in a "cone of silence", and we are to believe that with all of the dirty tricks the right wing has engaged in, they were honorable about this one.

Sorry no sell. This was a setup.

Sorry no sell. This was a setup.


Posted by fresno500 at 2008-08-18 02:50 PM


Keep dreaming Fresno and stay away from the crop planes.Thee only no sale was The Boy Wonders perfomance. It is almost laughable how fast his minions and the media deflected from his poor showing. What a pathetic waste of air time by Andrea and NBC. God forbid she report on his brilliant answers. I love the three people he admires question. Has he mentioned any yet? Or his above pay grade response to a very simple question about in his opinion when life begins.


Warren asked him ahead of time are dead wrong.--

That's just sour grapes,-- Warren said. They both did fantastically well. The only question he knew, I gave them the first question and I was changing the questions within an hour [before the forum began.] I talked to both of them a week before the debate and told them all the themes. I talked personally to John McCain and I talked personally to Barack Obama. I said, 'We'll talk about leadership, talk about the roles of government,' I said I'd probably have a question about climate change, probably a question on the courts. I didn't say, 'I'm going to ask which Supreme Court justice would you not [nominate]. They were clearly not prepared for that.--

I"m sick of abortion determining who we elect President.
...This is the first generation that won't do better than their parents did.Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2008-08-16 11:35 PM

Yes, and we've killed ONE THIRD of *this generation*! Maybe that's why our generation is the first to do worse!If your only acknowledge what you can see and measure, *some* of those implications should be obvious. If you even consider the *possibility* that the God of the Bible and His laws could exist in our material world, you should be able to see *another* reason our generation will do worse. Something horrible has to exist in human hearts for them to murder their offspring. And it shows a definite lack of optimism for the future in those who either have abortions, urge abortions, or pay for those abortions. Every society that has shed innocent blood has either repented or ended; sometimes rather dramatically.

mccain kicked his ass the whole time but none more on the abortion issue.
barrywayne couldnt even give a straight liberal answer.......

ANOTHER big week for mccain....maybe barry betterhead on back to hawaii and get his crying ready......the one where he lost because he is black

Even though Obama accused McCain of cheating which turned out to be false accusations:

"Pressed by CNN, Warren Says Obama Had a Competitive Edge"

"Warren admitted in his answer that he had given Obama a bit of an edge with regards to one question on large-scale government aid to orphans:: "...I also told Senator Obama, since there was one question where I was going to ask for a commitment, it was the commitment later about would you allow a PEPFAR type president's emergency plan for orphans, and I thought if I was going to ask them for a public commitment, I ought to let him know in advance. I got to tell Barack Obama that in advance. I did not get to tell John McCain that in advance. It caught him by surprise, I'm sure."
newsbusters.org

I'm sure McCain wasn't listening in his Limo.

"Even though Obama accused McCain of cheating which turned out to be false accusations"

1. Obama didn't accuse McCain of cheating. Allegedly some unnamed "Obama people" did.

2. How was it proved to be a false accusation?

McCain wasn't in a "cone of silence". He was in a motorcade on the way to the forum and was even late.

And the questions asked Obama were broadcast live.

"Due to Secret Service mandate, tickets will be required for the event in the main auditorium, but the program will be broadcast live in multiple venues on the Saddleback campus, as well as on several national broadcast networks and online. It will also be streamed live on"

saddlebackcivilforum.com

It seems likely McCain cheated.

Ona, I read the exerpt you printed in its context on the link you provided. It could easily have been his own story without saying it specifically. I've heard other speakers do the same thing.

McCain told this same story in his book, Faith of My Fathers

McCain told this same story in his book, Faith of My Fathers

For the first time in the first person just before he started his campaign for President in 2000. How convenient.

I've pointed out severall reasons this story doesn't wash - including the fact he was moved from a jungle camp to the Hoa Loa Prison (Hanoi Hilton) between the 'ropes' and the 'cross'. Unless you want to believe the same guard (who happened to be Christian, unlikely in No. Vietnam) was transferred a couple hundred miles. Also, the courtyard at Hoa Loa was made of brick - built by the French during colonial times. It was not a dirt courtyard.

In the several other instances between '71 and '99 when talking of his faith during captivity he never mentioned it once. In fact, the guard he talked about in his '73 12,000 page essay as 'the only guard who acted like a human' was a guard who let him lie down.

I'm not saying McCain and others didn't endure harsh treatment, but McCain pulled this story straight out of Solzhenitzen's 'Gulag Archipelago'. Also in Ben Hur.

12,000 word essay he wrote in '73.

I can see no one can convince you otherwise, AU. So let's move on to another question. The question of Obama's decision on the war.

"The opposition to the war in Iraq was, uh, as tough a decision as I've had to make. Um, not only because there were political consequences, but also because, uh, Saddam Hussein was a real bad person. Uh, aaand there was no doubt that he meant America ill. So I -- I -- I agonized over that, and I think that questions of war and peace genuinely, uh, are -- are so profound. All those questions surrounding the war have been very difficult for me."

Anyone who didn't know any better would take it that he voted against the war, ie "as tough a decuision as I've had to make." He wasn't even a member of the US Senate, for crying out loud! So he never had the burden of responsibility to make a decision.

OK, ANAMERICAN. I'll take that question....

Obama stood against going to war, asking the right questions, while he was running for the Senate - when the POPULAR stance was being in favor of it. He risked his entire campaign on that stance.

"Anyone who didn't know any better"

Such as yourself, since everyone who knows "better" understands that Obama was quote vocal in his opposition to the Iraq war before it began when that was a very unpopular position to take. Also, those who know "better" (unlike yourself) can see that Obama plainly stated that he was in "opposition" to the Iraq war and did not state that he was in a position to vote against or for it.

Americanunity-
It's clear that "Anamerican" prefers that our elections be decided by those who "[don't] know any better" than to imagine that we are all as stupid as "Anamerican".

Aaaack. It's too late! see ya.

Did ANYONE really expect McSame to be in a 'cone of silence'? Of course not. He had to be fed the questions and Obama answers so as not to look that fool.

The right can pretend that McSame isn't a cheater, even though we know he is as evidenced by his own campaigns admission today.

More proof that McSame just doesn't have what it takes to run a country. A washed up senior citizen who can't 'even answer questions on his own in front of a shill crowd of republitards.


Did anyone count the 'My friends' lines from McCheese?

Yes--Common McCain said "Mr friends" 13 times.

Obama said umm uaa uum I I uummmmm ugmmm umum--

Well I stopped counting at 64.


McCain was with the Secret Service and on his way to the building. There was no cheating.

But if that makes you feel better that the messiah's performance would have been better if McCain was worse--go right ahead.

McCain was with the Secret Service and on his way to the building. There was no cheating.

Because the SS is there to make sure Warren's rules are enforced?

We're living in a Theocracy!

Murphy

Do you always have to sound like you just left FreeRepublic?

You don't know anything for sure about what McCain heard or was told.

And hey, maybe 150,000 people saw it anyway. Saturday night with Olympics on. Not your Super Bowl audience.

On the question of when does a baby have rights--

There was not one person in that building who clapped for Obama's answer. It was torture.

The man doesn't even know when a baby has rights because it's above his pay grade.

You got that right.....


Even folks who are pro choice admit that when the baby is born it has rights. (Buffolo Bob)

But not Obama--and he claims to care about the lest of us--about the ones who can't defend themselves.

He is a quack.

Guys-=-the news folks called the campaign--Mac was in the motorcade with the Secret Service.

Sorry you are disappointed.

I'm starting to get the notion you're drunk most of the time you're blogging here, Murphy.

He was friggin' talking about God when he said it's above his pay grade Murphy.

Put the bottle down. You really sound foolish with all your 'messiah' babble too.

Obama will win CA by a large margin anyway.

You're not going to change one mind, Murphy.

Especially sounding like a loony bat FreeRepublican

AU--CNN has replayed that forum 3-4 times--MSLSD about 3 times. Not sure about Fox.

They were replaying it later Saturday night and on Sunday....


And one blog is enough--FR takes too long to post a comment.

Sorry you are disappointed.

McCain hadn't even left his hotel room when the event began. He arrived more than 30 minutes after Obama had begun speaking.

I can post the interview with Warren from CNN if you'd like to hear it.

Here it is:

www.youtube.com

All sober on this side--how about you AU??


Obama doesn't even think his own daughters have rights. If he did he should have said so--

But he can't--he is beholden to Planned Parenthood and NARAL and angry women who are pro abortion.

Follow the money on that one --


NARAL (or Planned Parenthood) gives Obama 100% rating for abortion.

They give Mac 0%.

Fine Murphy.

But, you sound like a Freeper all the way.

Still, the only ones who cared about the Saddleback Forum are political junkies - not the general public.

And the comments I've read across the net are not in line with what you posted.

You watch CNN? Didn't think you'd ever stoop so low being the staunch NeoCon you seem to be these days.

Still, I appreciate your kind words after the deaths I had to go through. For that I thank you.

Take care

AU :-)

And that, Murphy, is a good thing to sane people and women with brains.

All sober on this side--how about you AU??

.00 Blood Alcohol Level

Yav--McCain did not hear the event.

They were given the first question and the topics or themes by Warren.

Warren admitted to giving Obama a second question ahead of time.

Obama bombed.

McCain did surprisingly well.

I don't think anyone would have predicted that outcome.

Deal with it.

Pro Choice is NOT pro abortion.

I posted the CNN interview with Warren.

Deal with it.

Yes it is--the left has tried to change the subject from pro-abortion to pro choice for 2 decades now.

It is what it is.

Where in the interview is there any admission that McCain heard the event prior to arriving at the building?

The rules were set and they followed them.

Have a good night.

Murphy have you ever had sex with somebody you didn't want to have a child with?

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