Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Friday, August 15, 2008

A small Texas school district northwest of Fort Worth will let teachers bring guns to class this fall. "It's just common sense," said superintendent David Thweatt.

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Consider the value of having responsible teachers on site with a CC handgun in certain situations.

In a scenario like Columbine where the police acted like sluggish, irresponsible cowards or in the event of another Madman Cho incident, having a gun or two at school just might provide a deterrent before the fact or a way of ending things moe quickly when shit goes down.

The down side is not as grim as the up side here.

Everybody's got a right to self defense.

Be Well.

/Texas, eh?
//Not wotcha call a big suprise there.

[gasp]

I agree with spud.

[gulp]

Has the prophecy of Nostradamus been fufilled?

Has the prophecy of Nostradamus been fufilled?

~Dean B

Nope, but the sixth seal has just broken.

That can't be good.

You'll find that Spud breaks with a lot of lefties on the whole gun ownership/Concealed carry issue.

Spud reckons that the individual's right to not live in fear or to be a perpetual potential victim trumps anyone else's desire to live in a gun free society.

A gun free society does sound nice on the face of it.

In a perfect world perhaps.

Not this one.

Be Well.

No brainer. Blow them fuckers away. They deserve it.
To invade a school and cause mayhem among innocents is beyond reproach.

Kids are your future, they will be taking care of you when you get old and farty.

uhhh. Sounded good but delete: beyond reproach and insert: a sin against humanity.

good idea... nobody should have known though.

I'm waiting for the reckless endangerment lawsuit to be filed by the parents of some kid, when the kid takes away the pissant teachers gun and shoots him in the head with it.

Good idea here. Let this Texas district be the guinea pig. After years go by without any negative incidences resulting from this policy, more districts will follow suit, maybe.

This'll be good for education too! Get good grades or else! Get a C or lower you get a running start!

Gee Spud this is one of those few times I agree with you. Every school should allow teachers and of age students to carry concealed guns if they wish to.


Another thing about schools and weapons that bugs me is the no tolerance policies towards weapons, I'm talking about knives here, I've carried a small knife since I was 8 or 9 for a number of reasons but using it against a person wasn't one of them. I've never pulled it on anyone nor do I believe I'm likely to just like 99.9% of the other people who carry knives daily.

When I was growing up and going to school in Texas paddling kids was allowed. I spent more time bent over grabbing my ankles and getting smacked with a paddle than I care to remember.

My 8th grade science teacher, Mr. Page, was a first or second year teacher. He was a nervous little thing. He used to stand in class nervously clicking his pen.

Once in the lab a friend and I poured alcohol on the slate lab tops and lit it. Mr. Page went ballistic. He sent my friend and me to the principal's office with a note he hurriedly scribbled. Mr. Moore, the principal, looked at it and started laughing. My nervous friend and I askde what was so funny. Instead of writing, "I recommend corporal punishment" on the note had written, "I recommend capital punishment".

Mr. Moore said our 'crime' didn't seem quite that bad, but he did think we deserved 5 licks, which is what we got.

I guess today capital punishment may be permissible!

This will work well until some student steals a teachers gun and shows the others how it works. Or until a teacher snaps.

Or like Gimmeascotch suggests--guns for "of age" students is a great idea--especially at those football games when you can mix in a few beers--then you don't have to take shit from anybody no matter what the score.


Good idea here. Let this Texas district be the guinea pig. After years go by without any negative incidences resulting from this policy, more districts will follow suit, maybe.

Posted by Scrumplet at 2008-08-15 09:31 PM | Reply |
How many gun incidents in the schools where you live in the last two years? How about the last 200?

DumMy.

This will work well until some student steals a teachers gun and shows the others how it works
Or until a teacher snaps.


spectulation is fun...but how many students are brave enough to take a gun from a teacher....first they will have to know a teacher is armed with a gun...then they will have to know where on the body the teacher is holding a gun

so if you do not beileve something will happen in a school in 200 years...then why on earth do you believe this unfounded fictional story could ever happen

BB... plus if you beileve that nothing will happen in 200 years.....why would you think a student will have to overpower a teacher in a classroom of students watching...to gain a gun to shoot up a school....when all the student had to do was obtain a gun without conflict....to plan to shoot up a school to gain the most casualties....so he can be remembered forever

instead of gain a gun that he had to fight for...which carries only 1 mag of maybe 10 rounds

spectulation is fun...but how many students are brave enough to take a gun from a teacher

Do you see a future where all the teachers have shoulder holsters in class or have their guns on their hips? Is that how you think the kids would be safer? Speculation is fun--I see you enjoy it too.

....first they will have to know a teacher is armed with a gun...

So all the teachers don't have guns? And of course all the teachers are expert at concealing their weapons.

then they will have to know where on the body the teacher is holding a gun

Not too difficult given the time it takes to plan something.


so if you do not beileve something will happen in a school in 200 years...then why on earth do you believe this unfounded fictional story could ever happen

Who knows what will happen in 200 years. What I know has happened in the last 200 years. There were a few shootings then pants pissers wanted all the teachers to carry guns. As I said--in your district in the last 200 years--how many gun incidents in your schools?

Fucking pants pissers annoy me. Suck on a gun and feel safe. You're a winner.

Posted by judas at 2008-08-15 10:55 PM | Reply |

Do you see a future where all the teachers have shoulder holsters in class or have their guns on their hips? Is that how you think the kids would be safer? Speculation is fun--I see you enjoy it too.


why do you think that because they allow teaher to carry that you assume they all will carry


So all the teachers don't have guns? And of course all the teachers are expert at concealing their weapons.


why would you think that students will be focusing on if the teaher is carring or not...instead of learning....but no matter what you say you do not have to be a expert to learn about not printing a firearm....or do you think teacher are that stupid????


then they will have to know where on the body the teacher is holding a gun


why plan to fight for a gun when all you have to do is go out and get one


As I said--in your district in the last 200 years--how many gun incidents in your schools?

kids are caught with weapons all the time where i live including guns



Judas

Then get a gun and feel safe. It's probably cheaper than Depends in the long run.

BB.... what you are saying is crazy as usual....but you will say anything these days

what you say makes a much sence as my fictional story


i see a cop carring a gun in the open next to a police station.....i am mad at the police....but instead of planning my shooting spree... which i could carry the maximum amount of ammo and whatever weapon i need to do the job... so it would cause the maxium amount of damage before i die


i decise to fight the cop for his gun and maybe 1 mag with 12 rounds of ammo so i can go on a shooting spree in the police station...to be shot down right away

which plan makes sence...the fighting a cop for his gun anda few round of ammo...or bringing my own with as much ammo as i want

BB.... i own 10 guns and several assult rifles... personal safety is never a issue with me...so really i do not worry at all

my dad was a policeman for over 20 years...along with several of my family members....they always preach about people getting a conceal weapons permit... i know you have a political problem with this...even though its our right in the constution....but when it comes to experiance.....i will take the word of a policeman on how to protect myself....then over you polical hack self anyday of the weak....... at least policamen know what they are talking about unlike you

BBob,


I have only casually followed your anti-gun stance as a matter of practical defense. As I don't wish to scroll through countless archived posts, I wish to move this back to square-1 a bit and ask you some basic questions.

I construe that you feel that handguns are less effective than impromptu weapons such as a rock, antenna, etc.

Allow me to create 2 scenarios with the only variable being the good guy's weapon of defense, and I'll even use you as the good guy, much to the chagrin of the typical Drudgie. :-)


A would-be bad guy approaches you on the street armed with a knife.

Scenario A: You are armed with a radio antenna. In this scenario you and your opponent are comparably armed. It's essentially a matter of hand-to-hand combat. Now, you may be spry, but you are an old codger nonetheless. Do you really want to tangle with a 25 year old dude wielding a knife when all you have is an antenna? If you whip out your antenna, is it really going to serve as a deterrent?

Scenario B: You are armed with a Glock. Now, as a military vet I tend to believe you are proficient at wielding a sidearm. You are approached and as a precautionary measure you draw your weapon - a weapon this is easily capable of delivering a fatal wound with a simple squeeze of the trigger. In this scenario, your chances of success if the situation becomes kill or be killed improve dramatically AND you would seem to be more likely to subdue your attacker without violence as a pistol pointed at him is considerably more lethal and much more difficult to dodge than a dude wielding an antenna.


No doubt you've explained yourself on this before, and I apologize for a request of redundancy. Nevertheless, I can't fathom how you could view an antenna as more effective in any scenario other than a fringe scenario. Sure, you could probably create a hypothetical to support your position, but I feel that I could construe countless scenarios with the opposite outcome.

which plan makes sence...the fighting a cop for his gun anda few round of ammo...or bringing my own with as much ammo as i want

Posted by judas at 2008-08-15 11:23 PM | Reply


You aren't bright enough to figure out that whatever scenario works for the whacko will be the scenario he will carry out. If the scenario is that the kid snaps in school--then he gets a gun and starts shooting. If he decides to kill classmates--then he gets his own gun if possible--usually from parents.

Thinking guns are for personal safety or defense is foolish.

If I know you have guns, and I want your guns--I'll have your guns. Guns are a nice incentive to break into your house. Make sure everyone knows you have them, and your schedule as to when you won't be there.

BB...yea to get my guns you will have to... break in the house with a alram system....fight my dog.... go to my 500 pound safe that is bolted to the concert floor..... and break into that too.....good luck mission impossble...i hope my neighbors ar not alerted...because they own guns too

Judas

Your alarms system would stop any attempt to get your guns by me when you weren't there. However if I had to get the guns, I would attack when you were there. The bad guy always makes the first move. I might knock on your door as a salesman or a survey taker, and stick a gun in your face when you answered the door. Hopefully your dogs are locked up outside so I don't have to shoot them. I think I could persuade you to open the safe if really necessary.

How many gun incidents in the schools where you live in the last two years? How about the last 200?

Way too many. How many involved teachers doing the shooting? Zero.

Jeff J

I asked you think on another thread. You didn't answer. The answer to your questions are in the answer to these scenarios.

Scenario one:


You are the good guy. Let's say you are walking down the street, and you have a permit for a gun and you have any type gun you want on your person.

Question: Where are you carrying your gun?


Scenario two:


You are the bad guy. You have to take the money off the good guy or serious consequences will happen in your life. Unfortunately all you have is a knife. You can not walk away--you must get the money.


Question: How do you get the money?

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

As to your scenarios.


Scenario A: You are armed with a radio antenna. In this scenario you and your opponent are comparably armed. It's essentially a matter of hand-to-hand combat. Now, you may be spry, but you are an old codger nonetheless. Do you really want to tangle with a 25 year old dude wielding a knife when all you have is an antenna? If you whip out your antenna, is it really going to serve as a deterrent?

The best way to find out is to try it. No way I can explain it to you. You don't have to be a ninja to be effective with a car antenna--it is all in the wrist and hand eye coordination. I used to own video arcades--I'm good at hand eye coordination. I would be carrying the antenna in my hand--no need to hunt for it.


Scenario B: You are armed with a Glock. Now, as a military vet I tend to believe you are proficient at wielding a sidearm. You are approached and as a precautionary measure you draw your weapon - a weapon this is easily capable of delivering a fatal wound with a simple squeeze of the trigger. In this scenario, your chances of success if the situation becomes kill or be killed improve dramatically AND you would seem to be more likely to subdue your attacker without violence as a pistol pointed at him is considerably more lethal and much more difficult to dodge than a dude wielding an antenna.

If I draw my weapon first--the guy walks by and calls the cops on me. You can't walk around with a drawn weapon or look like you are threatening someone with it.

Now answer my scenarios please.

BBob,

Here's how I see it:


The antenna is still a crapshoot. In your scenario you are hedging your bet that your hand-to-hand skills are superior to a determined attacker.


Allow me to ammend my initial sidearm scenario - a would-be-attacker is walking toward you, so....


A. You discretely put your hand on your pistol for a quick draw

-and-

B. You make a deliberate change in walking direction. If the shady-dude matches your move you discretely draw your weapon. If he moves almost within the danger zone you move again and vocalize that you want your distance respected. If he moves closer still, you make your weapon evident before he is within striking range.

If I know you have guns, and I want your guns--I'll have your guns

LOL

Jeff J

Answer the second scenario please.


If I know you have guns, and I want your guns--I'll have your guns


LOL

Posted by goatman at 2008-08-16 12:23 AM | Reply

How would you stop me? You have a gun--I have a gun. I pull my gun and take your gun.

If you pull your gun first--you're the bad guy.

If I draw my weapon first--the guy walks by and calls the cops on me. You can't walk around with a drawn weapon or look like you are threatening someone with it.


You raise a decent point.

However, if the would-be bad-guy deterred to a point where he actually called the cops in lieu of attacking, I'd say you succeeded on 2 fronts.

1. You prevented a possible assault by wielding your sidearm.

2. As you are liscenced to carry, the fact that you pulled your weapon; cowed a possible assailant; AND never actually discharged your weapon puts you in a situation where a prosecutor would likely drop charges almost immediately.

How would you stop me?

As soon as you stepped into my house, I would shoot you.

duh

If you pull your gun first--you're the bad guy.

I'd rather be the bad guy than the dead guy.

Besides, you are wrong. In most -- if not all -- states, if you enter someone's house illegally, that makes you the bad guy.

As soon as you stepped into my house, I would shoot you.


duh

Posted by goatman at 2008-08-16 12:52 AM | Reply


Why would you shoot me as soon as I stepped into your house? Do you usually shoot unarmed people in your house? Is that Texas hospitality now?

Bob.

At some point, you just need to let it go.

Coming up with fantastic hypotheticals to validate your point of view isn't argumentation.

It's certainly entertaining, though.

But only for a while.

Go learn how to use a firearm instead of making an ass of yourself on left-wing blogs.

Then get back to us regarding the topic.

people who own guns tend to be paranoid pussies. they shoot unarmed people in their house. the MO is to assume the worst, open fire, and apologize later. kind of GWB in Iraq...

but people who own car antennaes are macho...

Besides, you are wrong. In most -- if not all -- states, if you enter someone's house illegally, that makes you the bad guy.

Posted by goatman at 2008-08-16 12:54 AM | Reply


If I'm in your house illegally--I have my gun on you and your nose is smelling your floor. If you can shoot me with your ass--you're my hero.

all teachers should carry guns. perhaps it would restore a modicum of respect back in the public school system.

moder8 - you and me - ten paces - seems fair to me. oh sorry - you'd try to talk them out of shooting your sissy-arse fanny! nevermind - hozabout if i bring a dictionary? thesaurus? croissant? you puttybutt!

Buffalo Bob-
It kinda depends on the circumstances. In some I am entirely justified, wise and perspicacious to shoot without hesitation - and would be negligent if I did not. But mostly not.

If I'm in your house illegally--I have my gun on you and your nose is smelling your floor. If you can shoot me with your ass--you're my hero.


BuffaloBob -- a rootin' tootin' shoot 'em up cyberspace cowboy

Get 'em, big boy.

Why would you shoot me as soon as I stepped into your house?

Because you would not belong there and I would not know you and I would have no idea what your intentions are or if you were armed or not.

But admitted you would be armed, you would be in my house illegally. That's all the reason I need to shoot you.

Do you usually shoot unarmed people in your house?

Moving the goalposts I see in your little scenario game:

How would you stop me? You have a gun--I have a gun. I pull my gun and take your gun.

But to answer your question: Yes, I would shoot an unarmed person who was in my house illegally. If someone is bold enough to enter my house without my permission, I have to assume they have mafeasance on their mind and are armed.

Do you usually enter other peoples homes illegally?

the MO is to assume the worst, open fire, and apologize later.

Exactly. Why would you be stupid enough to enter someone's house illegally, m8?

*musing* m8 -- hmmm. I answered my own question

the MO is to assume the worst, open fire, and apologize later.

Exactly. Why would you be stupid enough to enter someone's house illegally, m8?

*musing* m8 -- hmmm. I answered my own question

If all the kids carried guns, there wouldn't be any problems with bullying--what a great idea.

Anybody ever wonder why everyone out west quit carrying guns on their hips like in the Old West? If it was such a good idea--why did everyone stop doing it? I guess we aren't smart enough to learn from history.

If I'm in your house illegally--I have my gun on you and your nose is smelling your floor.

LOL Try it and see

Goatman

You moved the goalposts not me. Pay attention--if you go by the first statement.

How would you stop me? You have a gun--I have a gun. I pull my gun and take your gun.

How are you going to shoot me?

Then you put me in your house without a gun and you have a gun and assume I'm there illegally. Make some sense.

Let's start again.

You have a gun--I have a gun. I pull my gun and take your gun.

How are you going to shoot me?

If all the kids carried guns, there wouldn't be any problems with bullying--what a great idea.

oops.

We downshifted.


Bob.


At some point, you just need to let it go.


Coming up with fantastic hypotheticals to validate your point of view isn't argumentation.


It's certainly entertaining, though.


But only for a while.


Go learn how to use a firearm instead of making an ass of yourself on left-wing blogs.


Then get back to us regarding the topic.

...that allows me to fire #2 buckshot out of my asshole?

Wow. Flatulence Texas-style?

How are you going to shoot me?

I shoot you as soon as you enter my front door. YOu will not get close enough to take my gun. Why is this a hard concept for you?

Seems Jeff J had to go someplace. What a surprise. Seems Goatman doesn't want to answer the second scenario. Seems Pinche is talking out his ass as usual.

I pull my gun and take your gun.


How are you going to shoot me?


OK - I pull my gun and take your antenna.


How are you going to whip me?

I shoot you as soon as you enter my front door. YOu will not get close enough to take my gun. Why is this a hard concept for you?

Posted by goatman at 2008-08-16 01:20 AM | Reply


If I don't have your gun--I'm not coming in your house idiot. Who says we are in your house? Where did your house come from? Quit moving the goalposts. Pay attention dUmMy.

You have a gun--I have a gun. I pull my gun and take your gun.


How are you going to shoot me?

Do you see anyone talking about your house?

What a surprise. Seems Goatman doesn't want to answer the second scenario.

Nope. What's the point in speculating on that which will not happen? May as well ask me what I would do if the sun rose in the west.

"I shoot you as soon as you enter my front door."
-Goatman

Why wait?
It's almost a half-mile walk to the house from the front gate.
I say drop him in the front pasture.
Let the buzzards clean up.

There's an old saying in Texas: Come and take it.

i179.photobucket.com

Jeff J

Answer the second scenario please.

Scenario two:

You are the bad guy. You have to take the money off the good guy or serious consequences will happen in your life. Unfortunately all you have is a knife. You can not walk away--you must get the money.

Question: How do you get the money?

Pinche is talking out his ass

Pinche is just pointing out the fact that you tend to you use fantastic hypotheticals to validate your point of view.

The ass you make of yourself is a far more interesting topic than whatever point you've long ago failed to prove.

So lets talk about that instead.

Do you see anyone talking about your house?

Yes, you, when you first started you stupid little scenarios:

If I know you have guns, and I want your guns--I'll have your guns

I keep my guns in my house. Then later:


If I'm in your house illegally--I have my gun on you and your nose is smelling your floor.

Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2008-08-16 01:01 AM |


It must really suck having such a horrible memory and not being able to use your PGUP key.

Answer the second scenario please

*hee hee*

Then I woke here, amongst the craziness.

What happens next; I dont know.

Nope. What's the point in speculating on that which will not happen? May as well ask me what I would do if the sun rose in the west.

Posted by goatman at 2008-08-16 01:28 AM | Reply


That's simply because you lack imagination. No surprise there either. So--have you come up with the answer yet?

You have a gun--I have a gun. I pull my gun and take your gun.


How are you going to shoot me?

Again--we are still not at your house. No imagination?

Bob:

Do you socialize much?

Ever go out for a steak with friends, or anything like that?

I know I am ready for war.

No imagination?

People who are taken seriously in debates don't ask their opponents to evoke their "imagination" for validation.

"You have a gun--I have a gun. I pull my gun"

Except you're dead before it clears leather.

All that's left of the last asshole to threaten me in my house: s179.photobucket.com

www.youtube.com

Scenario two:


You are the bad guy. You have to take the money off the good guy or serious consequences will happen in your life. Unfortunately all you have is a knife. You can not walk away--you must get the money.


Question: How do you get the money?


You employ whatever degree of stealth you have available to you.


You try to catch your victim off-guard and unaware.


If successful, and that's a BIG IF, I fail to see how an antenna or a rock is better than a pistol. At that point we are talking hand-to-hand and a pistol serves a similar purporse as a rock.


Also, in the clutches of hand-to-hand, a pistol can still be lethal if it can be effectively used - you get off a lucky shot, or an effective shot. An antenna causes less physical damage.


Regardless, whatever you armed with is mitigated by being taken by surprise. Whether wielding a pistol or an antenna, an ambush nullifies one's options.

This scenario doesn't noticeably diminish a pistol as an inferior weapon for this scenario.


How are you going to shoot me?

Aim and pull the trigger -- just like everyone else in Texas does. Doesn't take much imagination

Goatman

So? You keep you guns in your house. That you would tie those posts together shows the disconnects in your mind. They were two separate scenarios. That you mixed them together and came up with your own twisted version, then assign it to me is not valid.

If you want to talk about getting your guns at your house--fine--I'll get the guns from your house. I watch your house for a few weeks and see your pattern and who goes where and when. Then I either pull a gun on you from your car to the house--or knock on your door and if I see you have no weapon I'll pull my weapon out of the box I was pretending to deliver. If it doesn't look good at the crucial point in either scenario--I abort until the odds are in my favor for having my gun on you first. The point is the bad guy makes the first move, and that move won't come until the outcome is certain.

If you want to talk about being out on the street.

You have a gun--I have a gun. I pull my gun and take your gun.

How are you going to shoot me?

All that's left of the last asshole to threaten me in my house

Boyd's prick?

Who's Boyd?

--I'll get the guns from your house.

LOL

I watch your house for a few weeks and see your pattern and who goes where and when

And my (Texas) neighbors watch you. My, how quickly you forget. It must suck having such a bad memory.

You have a gun--I have a gun. I pull my gun and take your gun.

You can't do that. I'm quicker than you

You bore me.

Bye

Jeff J

It doesn't sound like you were successful in getting the money to me. All I saw you say is--sneak up on the guy if possible. Is that the best you can do? Even Pirate did better. I'm disappointed--your view is slanted rather than trying to be objective and thinking like a real bad guy. If you don't get that money you die. Sounds like you aren't going to make it.

Its like this--the guy isn't going to come at you like you would like--he will come at you how he likes--he makes the rules--he moves first. He decides the ambush and has decided the terrain long before you showed up. You won't see him or suspect him if you do. The knife is in your back and your gun is now his--or hers.

You can't do that. I'm quicker than you


You bore me.


Bye

Posted by goatman at 2008-08-16 01:55 AM | Reply


Maybe--but you didn't know there was going to be a contest. Run along. You are too stupid to have this conversation.

And my (Texas) neighbors watch you. My, how quickly you forget. It must suck having such a bad memory.

Posted by goatman at 2008-08-16 01:54 AM | Reply

Yes, I'm standing in the middle of the street with an orange vest and a sign on my back and when I sneak up on you the bells on my toes will give me away.

BBob

Were you responsible for this poor guy being in the trauma unit?

Fess' up.

Man with cardiac injury from car antenna

Its like this--the guy isn't going to come at you like you would like--he will come at you how he likes--he makes the rules--he moves first. He decides the ambush and has decided the terrain long before you showed up. You won't see him or suspect him if you do. The knife is in your back and your gun is now his--or hers.

OK.

So the bad guy, in your scenario, strategizes.

Fine. Taking that into account, I fail to see how a pistol, which would have a similar effect as, say, a pair of brass knuckles, is inferior to a well-planned attack.

In this sense, you have cunjured a scenario whereby a pistol is arguably no-better than any other would-be weapon. You have also failed to describe how this pistol would be any less effective than, say, a stone, which you wouldn't be any more likely to carry.

Lastly, this is only 1 hypothetical scenario - a scenario by which you have dictated the parameters, for the most part. The possibilities are endless. I am 100% confident that I can create infinitely more scenarios where a firearm is a better defensive weapon than an antenna.

Seriously - you are a Viet Nam vet. If you were given a choice -

Go into the jungle to face the VC with either:

A. An M-16

-or-

B. A radio antenna


Which would you choose?

Mao,


My "who is Boyd" question was mocking his incessant name-changes.

As was my answer...

And I'd choose "b"

"My "who is Boyd" question was mocking his incessant name-changes."

Maybe you ought to address his arguments rather than constantly whining about his name changes.

Califchris

No, but it does show some of the possibilities. Actually if I were to carry an antenna type weapon for self defense, I think it would be this one.

www.personalsecurityshop.com

Null,


2 things.....


1 - I rarely mock his name changes and I almost always address him by whatever his handle-du-hour happens to be.

2. I would LOVE it if he actually made an argument, or even a delcarative statement. Betelg is a bright guy and I welcome the challenge and his perspective. Unfortunately, he mostly defaults to emotional, 'gotcha' bullshit.

Used to post here....

He's still here. Goes by betelg this week.

A. An M-16

-or-

B. A radio antenna

Which would you choose?

Posted by JeffJ at 2008-08-16 02:09 AM | Reply

Now you are getting as stupid as Goatman. This discussion about car antennas is only one scenario. I never said car antennas were good for every scenario. Don't make me regret treating your posts with respect.

Because I'm a VC in the jungle.

I come at you with my AK.

Now I've got my AK and I've got your M-16.

What are you going to shoot me with?

Ooooooh!

Now you're trying to call in a little air with your antenna?

I come at you with my AK and your M-16!

Now what are you gonna call in the fast-movers with?


As was my answer...

oops. I was too stupid to catch. Need sleep

Maybe you ought to address his arguments rather than constantly whining about his name changes.

He doesn't make arguments.


Don't make me regret treating your posts with respect.


I contstrued your position to be that a pistol was an overall inferior, practical weapon of self-defense when compared with the likes of an antenna.

Again, I walked into this discussion midsteam and very possibly misconstrued your ultimate point.

Why don't we start with that, and then work our way backwards...

" Unfortunately, he mostly defaults to emotional, 'gotcha' bullshit."

Uh huh. Of course, if his ideology accorded with yours you would be saying just the opposite.

This is the kind of antennae I would use for self defense if Mr. 9mm failed me

He doesn't make arguments.



Posted by Pinche_Mao

My reply was more politically-correct.

Enough with the car antenna shit. You CAN really whip someones ass with one, but OBVIOUSLY a gun is superior. OK? Can we move on now?

This topic: beaten to death. It's not funny anymore, and I'm getting tired of seeing it in every thread.

Mr. 9mm

And Mr. 9mm here...

He's the shepherd.....

"He doesn't make arguments."

Yeah, unlike yourself, whose repertoire consists of assinine remarks about shoe styles.

It's not funny anymore

It's funny so long as the stupidity that exhibited it in the first place remains on display.

And it does.

If you were in the middle of a merry go round at the midway at the Texas State Fair on a Tuesday and one of the ride operators came at you with a glock hidden in his ham sandwich and it just started to rain, what would you do:

Scenario 1: Suggest he get the corned dog and fried coca cola

Scenario 2: Break off the horse's plastic tail and wield it hoping to blind him with horse shit

Scenario 3: Hope that Big Tex's low bellowing voice distracts him long enough for you to pull your car antennae.

Scenario 4: Go to the livestock exhibit, sheer a sheep, weave a woolen disguise, and come back at him with rock

Yeah, unlike yourself, whose repertoire consists of assinine remarks about shoe styles.

Posted by nullifidian at 2008-08-16 02:27 AM | Reply | Flag:


And sex with boyds wife. Real debate team shit.

How about one of these?

www.youtube.com


Enough with the car antenna shit. You CAN really whip someones ass with one, but OBVIOUSLY a gun is superior. OK? Can we move on now?


This topic: beaten to death. It's not funny anymore, and I'm getting tired of seeing it in every thread.

Posted by Alexandrite at 2008-08-16 02:24 AM | Reply


Of course a gun is superior to a car antenna when both are in the hands of the opponents. There was only one case where I said I would rather have a car antenna over a gun, and I have proven that in that case an antenna is a credible alternative, and that the car antenna is preferable to have if the bad guy takes the weapon away from you--and it is easy for a bad guy to take a weapon away from you.

However the idiots on this blog seem to throw up the car antenna to me day after day, and say I think a car antenna kills aliens or whatever--so get used to it for the rest of your fucking life until they learn to STFU about it. Every time I see that mentioned--that thread is going over to an antenna thread.

Say hello to MY little friend:

video.google.com

There was only one case where I said I would rather have a car antenna over a gun,

If the gun was unloaded? lol. Jesus...

I guess pinche was right for once. This can still be funny.

Fuck that.
My neighbors love to wake me up with their auto grenade launcher.

www.youtube.com

Uh huh. Of course, if his ideology accorded with yours you would be saying just the opposite.


No, I wouldn't.


Boyd's ideology is similar to Alex's.

Yet I can carry a genuine, 'to and fro' conversation with Alex at any time, but can rarely get BetelG to offer up the same courtesy. It's usually he peppering me with mostly asinine questions which I mostly patiently answer in the hopes that he'll extend the same courtesy. It doesn't happen real often and that's a shame. IMO he really is a bright guy and is a worthy sparring-partner on the rare occasion that he's willing to actually proffer and defend an arguement in a direct fashion.


My pillow beckons....


Good night all.

oh fuck

www.youtube.com

Zatoichi- I can't exactly use a grenade launcher in my neighborhood.

Well, I could...but the neighbors property value would go down.

Alexandrite

You asked--let's see if you have the answers. Can you discuss it now or would you rather wait for another time in the next ten years?

Answer the scenarios please.

Scenario one:


You are the good guy. Let's say you are walking down the street, and you have a permit for a gun and you have any type gun you want on your person.

Question: Where are you carrying your gun?


Scenario two:


You are the bad guy. You have to take the money off the good guy or serious consequences will happen in your life. Unfortunately all you have is a knife. You can not walk away--you must get the money.


Question: How do you get the money?

Yet I can carry a genuine, 'to and fro' conversation with Alex at any time, but can rarely get BetelG to offer up the same courtesy. It's usually he peppering me with mostly asinine questions which I mostly patiently answer in the hopes that he'll extend the same courtesy.

I have to agree with Jeff. Betelg is the world's worst about that. He can even be worse than bOoB, believe it or not. I've had to simply ignore him two times in the last couple of weeks.

"I can't exactly use a grenade launcher in my neighborhood."

I can.

throw up the car antenna to me day after day, and say I think a car antenna kills aliens or whatever--so get used to it for the rest of your fucking life until they learn to STFU about it

You bring it on yourself, dipshit.

Research the etymology of "absurd".

The only interesting thing about you is wondering whether or not you take yourself seriously.

"'Nite all"

Mr 9mm here
He's the shepherd.....

I admit I watched the movie two days ago with my daughter in law. She had never seen it. So 'Mr. 9mm' was indeed on my mind.

Pinche Mao

If you think it is absurd that giving a bad guy a gun is better than giving him a car antenna--you are truly an idiot. If you think a man with a gun can't be robbed by a man with a knife you are naive. If that man with the gun is willing to cut you--you don't have a chance.

So tell me--would you rather the bad guy took your car antenna or took your gun.

Spit it oput dipshit--let's hear your answer. Here's some help--I know you need it.

A. Pinche Mao thinks it is best the bad guy steals his gun.

B. Pinche Mao thinks it is best the bad guy steals his car antenna.

OK, bob...

For the sake of morbid curiousity for the truly absurd, I'll bite.

A guy with a knife is going to stab a gun weilding "good guy" in the back. What's a fucking car antenna going to do? Yeah, you whip the back of my neck as hard as you can, then I spin around and put a bullet between your eyes.

My neck hurts. You're dead.

Scenario 5: Run like Jesse Owens

Well, I could...but the neighbors property value would go down.

Actually the property itself would go down, too.

Scenario 6: Divon gets the tables, he and dudley perform the "3-d" finishing move.

Sorry, he and "bubba ray"

A. Pinche Mao thinks it is best the bad guy steals his gun.


B. Pinche Mao thinks it is best the bad guy steals his car antenna.

C. Pinche Mao thinks da bOoB is an idiot.

I'll take 'C', Don.

Alex, you bit. You are bob's dinner now.

Goat- fuck it. Bored.

bOoB: In case you didn't hear, it wasn't big foot. It was 96% opossum DNA. You are so gullible.

Got a link, goatman?

And because I don't know: WHy is it said Possum, but spelled opossum?

Gee I'm sorry I thought I was in the thread about teachers, guns and schools. Me bad adios amigos.

Whiner.

It's on Yahoo.com's home page, Alex.

'Possum is a contraction of opossum.

Alexandrite

WTF are you talking about? Read the scenarios again when you sober up.

Buffalo Bob after using his antenna on a guy with a gun.

NSFW?

www.ebaumsworld.com

Alex

bigfoot hoax


bOoB: In case you didn't hear, it wasn't big foot. It was 96% opossum DNA. You are so gullible.

Posted by goatman at 2008-08-16 03:05 AM | Reply

I did hear, DummY. Heard the DNA may have been compromised. I heard they still have the corpse and are inviting inspection. I heard you only report part of the story as usual.

"Mr 9mm here"

About 30 years ago I killed a cattle-chasing stray dog with a 9mm; Browning High Power.

It took two clips.

I do not own a 9mm weapon.
Worthless, pissant round.

A few years later I shot a rabid raccoon with a 41 magnum which I still have at hand if my sweet Model 29 doesn't show up in my fist.

One round.

Heard the DNA may have been compromised.

You are still the most gullible person I have ever met -- and that includes 4 year olds who'll believe almost anything.


Buffalo Bob after using his antenna on a guy with a gun.


NSFW?


www.ebaumsworld.com

Posted by Alexandrite at 2008-08-16 03:26 AM | Reply


Show me where I said a guy with a car antenna uses it on a guy with a gun? You have seceded in making a fool of yourself again. Oops--there's that misspelling again.

On Nightline tonight they said the samples were taken from two areas with two differing results.

A more complete test of the corpse will be undertaken this coming week.

BOB- You said there was one scenario where you'd rather have a car antenna than a gun. That's crazy.

Do you get that? Even if someoine has a KNIFE you're better off with a gun than a friggin car antenna.

The vid was a JOKE. An intentional one, unlike your posts.

You have seceded in making a fool of yourself again

That's actually a good thing, bOoB, though the preferred preposition is 'from', not 'in'

Alexandrite

Read something moron. You don't even understand the conversation. No one is saying anything about going up against a gun with a car antenna except your dumb ass.
If someone takes the weapon from you with a knife--would you rather that they took a gun or a car antenna.

Spit it out stupid--which would you rather see in the criminals hands? Do you think a man with a knife can't rob your punk ass? Sorry, but stupidity in the face of so many posts showing the opposite of what you are talking about pisses me off. Maybe you should succeed from posting on this thread. Oops--there's that mispelling again. Oh well you know what I mean.

"If someone takes the weapon from you with a knife--would you rather that they took a gun or a car antenna."

Using that logic, your ultimate safeguard would be a marshmallow.


You have seceded in making a fool of yourself again


That's actually a good thing, bOoB, though the preferred preposition is 'from', not 'in'

Posted by goatman at 2008-08-16 03:40 AM | Reply |


The seceded and succeeded bit is between Alexandrite and myself. I explained it to you a while back, but of course you aren't bright enough to remember--so I will explain it again. Maybe print this out and tape it to your mirror so you won't forget again and look stupid two times instead of just this once.

Alexandrite used the word "succeeded" three times in a thread about the civil war, when the word he wanted to use was "seceded". When I tried to point it out to him in as respectful a manor as possible (I didn't think he was such a dumb ass at the time), he attacked me for the correction and claimed it as a mispelling. Everyone agreed that it was a simple mispelling. The discussion went on for quite some time over whether it was a mispelling or if Alexandrite was just too stupid to know the difference between the two words. I think the words are too dissimilar to be confused by a spelling error three times. Alexandrite simply didn't know the difference between secede and succeed, and wasn't man enough to say "Thanks for the correction so I don't look stupid for the rest of my life." So I remind him that he is stupid whether he accepts the facts or not.

Much like his dumb ass thinking I would suggest going up against a gun with a car antenna. Much like your dumb ass.

;-)

Using that logic, your ultimate safeguard would be a marshmallow.

Posted by Danforth at 2008-08-16 11:33 AM | Reply


Exactly. Would you rather have a thief take a gun away from you or a marshmallow.

But if you listen to the morons on the thread--that isn't what you said--what you said was you would rather fight someone with a marshmallow than a gun--then you get responses from Alexandrite and Goatman like:

Gosh Danforth--now you want to fight guns with marshmallows--you must be crazy.

"Would you rather have a thief take a gun away from you or a marshmallow."

I'd rather not wallow in the ridiculous assumption a thief is going to disarm me.

I'd rather not wallow in the ridiculous assumption a thief is going to disarm me.

Posted by Danforth at 2008-08-16 12:35 PM | Reply


You think it is ridiculous that you could be disarmed? Who the fuck are you? Superman? You are even more of a moron than Alexandrite or Goatman.

Danforth

I come up behind you and whack you in the head with a nice heavy pipe--take your gun and shove it up your ass. Hmmm--I see your point--you still have your weapon.

What a bunch of hooey over nothing. 110 students in the entire district! That's less than 10 students in a class, with maybe 12 classes TOTAL. What a complete over-reaction to a non-threat.

if teachers want to carry a weapon
fine, but to get one just for school duty is
plain stupid. it would be hard to find a jury
to side with a teacher over a kid even with
evidence pointing in the teachers favor. these
teachers would be much safer joining the marines.

this is a scary thing! ... remember some of your teachers? Mrs. Strickland woulda killed somebody weekly. Mrs. Kennedy would've used it on herself! SCARY!

"I come up behind you and whack you in the head with a nice heavy pipe--take your gun and shove it up your ass. "

What an idiot. If you could knock me out and get my gun, you could do the same and get my car antenna. Or my marshmallow, for that matter. At least with the gun, the robber takes the chance of retribution. What's he chancing with the car antenna...good FM reception?

I'm still laughing over your answer, Danforth!

Danforth

Of course the guy could take the car antenna dumb ass. WTF--did that just occur to you.

But your stupid ass claimed you couldn't be disarmed. BULLSHIT.

Now the point is--and the question is--would you rather the thief had your gun after whacking your stupid ass in the head--or would you rather the thief had your car antenna? Spit it out stupid--which would you rather the thief take off your dented head body.

'evening, BBob. Ready for round 2 tonight?

No answer? Okay. Maybe you'll come out to play later.

bOoB -- news flash, dude. Guns are for when you can use them. If you get hit on the back of the head nothing is going to help.

If you come into my house illegally, I can guarantee you with 100% certainty that you will not be bopping me on the back of the head. I can also guarantee you that you will catch at least one bullet from my gun. If you are lucky, you will die. If not, you will just be missing one or two kneecaps and will be begging me to put a third bullet into youb to put you out of your misery. Depending on how close you are to my expensive Persian Tabriz carpet will depend if I do or not.

So create all your stupid 'what if' scenarios that you want. 99% of all the other scenarios, a gun will help me more than it will help the bad guy. I'll take my chances that the other 1% doesn't happen.

You are indeed a crazy fuck


bOoB -- news flash, dude. Guns are for when you can use them. If you get hit on the back of the head nothing is going to help.

Newsflash moron--the bad guys don't always come up and say SHOOT ME. If they see you have a gun--the gun is useless. If they don't assume you have a gun, they are very stupid. Soo--your gun is useless on the street.


"If you come into my house illegally, I can guarantee you with 100% certainty that you will not be bopping me on the back of the head."

Yes yes--burglars only come when you are home. No moron--they come when you are not home. If a bad guy wants you--there is nothing you can do--no defense you can take--unless you hide in a room and never come out.

"I can also guarantee you that you will catch at least one bullet from my gun."

You would never get to your gun. You wouldn't even know you were in trouble.

"So create all your stupid 'what if' scenarios that you want. 99% of all the other scenarios, a gun will help me more than it will help the bad guy. I'll take my chances that the other 1% doesn't happen."

There was only one "what if" scenario you stupid buffoon. It said that if I had a weapon taken away from me--I would rather the weapon taken was a car antenna. The rest is your frothing at the mouth and talking out your ass.

You are indeed a moron.

There was only one "what if" scenario you stupid buffoon.

My point exactly. But I can name thousands -- even more -- where a gun would be a benefit to me.

Thank you

99% of all the other scenarios, a gun will help me more than it will help the bad guy. I'll take my chances that the other 1% doesn't happen.

I'll take you up on that statement. I say there is only one time when a gun is effective in home defense. That one scenario is this:

You are home--a noisy burglar starts to break in, and you have enough time to get your gun and shoot him in cold blood.

Any other time your gun may be effective in catching a bad guy who is holding up a store if he doesn't see you and shoot you or your bullet doesn't miss or go through him and hit someone else. But those scenarios are offensive use of the weapon.

But other than that one scenario I mentioned--your gun is useless in defense. So I call you on your 99% bullshit and say you can't tell me ANY scenarios where your gun will help you in protecting your home except the one I mentioned, and I can tell you several instances where you can be attacked in or around your own home and your guns taken from you. Even if you have your gun in your hand at all times.

My point exactly. But I can name thousands -- even more -- where a gun would be a benefit to me.


Thank you

Posted by goatman at 2008-08-17 12:46 AM | Reply


Let's hear three.

Let's hear three.

Here's one -- when Goat goes buffalo hunting.

Let's hear three.

An intruder comes into my house on July 1.
An intruder comes into my house on July 14.
An intruder comes into my house on July 24.

Goatman

Sounds like the one scenario I mentioned dipshit.

What a punk you are.

I don't know why I bother proving it again and again.

ff Goat

I don't know why I bother proving it again and again..

It must really suck being the only one in the entire world who is ever correct. It's you against the world. At least one out of the 6 billion of us knows the what's really going on.

I feel really bad that this burden has been put on you, but it was. So keep on trying to convince the other 5,999,999,999 of us that there are smokestacks on the moon, that commercial jets were modified to launch missles at the WTC, that lens artifacts are really blue ghost angels, that car antennae are superior weapons to guns, that there are cities on Mars. The world needs to know.

So to answer your question why you keep proving me wrong: It's because you take your job seriously. You are to be commended.

But I'm still not convinced, so my word of advice to you if you value your kneecaps -- don't come into my house and try to overtake me with your car antennae or bash me on the back of the head, or whatever other little scenarios you can dream up. You will be patellaless

BuffaloBob

I did think Telescopic Stun Baton you showed me in the link in your post (earlier upthread at 2:16 a.m.) was a pretty handy weapon. Seems more than powerful enough stop an attacker in their tracks with all the voltage it has if you were able to extend it out far enough to have it touch the guy attacking you.

Give the students gun safety training as well. We are better off if more law abiding citizens carry guns and know how to use them.

MWMFatherof4

Cho was a law abiding citizen until he went into the lecture hall and started shooting people.

The Columbine kids were law abiding citizens until they started shooting their classmates.

The majority of people who are shot each year are shot by law abiding citizens--up to the point where they pulled the trigger.

Your thought processes are faulty.

Califchris

The effeectiveness of any weapon of self defense is how fast can it be deployed. Sure a gun may be effective, but if it is in a safe somewhere and unloaded, it may be a few minutes to get it out and loaded. Minutes most won't have when the time comes. Same with having a gun in your purse. Sure it would be great to pull the gun when the guy comes up to mug you, but getting to it may pose a bit of a problem when the mugger already has his gun or knife out.

The big problem is that the bad guy always gets to make the first move, and select the terrain. The electric baton may not save you either, but it is easier and faster to deploy--just push a button and you can keep your finger on the button at all times. If it does get taken from you, at least you haven't given a bad guy a gun, and it won't kill anyone.

Not all teachers are reasonable people. I'm pretty sure we all had at least a few who were crazy/horrible people. The problem is that the most likely to abuse this policy will be the most likely to take advantage of it. I wouldn't necessarily assume a teacher who has a gun with him every day is any less likely than a kid to lose it and start shooting people.

"It must really suck being the only one in the entire world who is ever correct."

Like most crazy people, BB thinks he's the only sane person.

The man has obvious mental problems.

Babuenthal

You are proven incorrect--I am not the only sane person--there are billions of us---you just aren't one of them.

I am not the only sane person

Sane people think there are smokestacks on the moon?

All righty, then.

"there are billions of us"

Billions?

I think the mentally ill only number in the millions.


.......UN-FUCKING-
BELIEVABLE.............

.......my wife is a teacher.......

.......there is one day a month....if she had an automatic weapon handy.....she would gladly take out the class of little fuckers........

......knowing what I know about today's students...I cannot believe that she is the only one........

"But your stupid ass claimed you couldn't be disarmed."

No, I claimed I didn't want to wallow in your silly fantasy. Which, by your own barometer, makes you a liar, doesn't it?

"just push a button and you can keep your finger on the button at all times."

At all times?!? If that's the metric, why not just hold a loaded, cocked gun in your pocket at all times, with your finger on the trigger?

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