As much as I've criticized the media for its incessant obsession with the least important aspects of this year's campaign, I must praise it when it gets something right.

You know things are bad around the McCain base when the venerable Wall Street Journal praises the Democrat's belief in a stronger dollar as a hedge against rising oil prices and sundry other fiscal issues and questions where the Republican stands on the same issue.

Maybe instead of smear campaigns and bald-faced lies the McCain camp can answer the many policy specifics which Obama has released to little coverage over the last few weeks. Heaven knows that issues of importance just might be of concern to American voters a little more than who's the bigger celebrity.

The fall of the dollar, and the spectacular rise in the past six weeks, IS part of oil's supply and demand.

When one guy says it's supply and demand, and another says, no, it's the weak dollar that moves prices--they're not in disagreement. But the best thing for the greenback is a reduction in government spending. And while Obama pretends to favor the former, he doesn't seem to care much for the latter. Which means that he's talking out of both sides of his mouth, again, hoping his millions of voters are too unsophisticated to notice. And he's probably right in that respect.

"But the best thing for the greenback is a reduction in government spending."

A balanced budget is what is needed, one way to do that is to cut spending (which will also cost jobs) and the other is to raise taxes on income not being invested into job creating industries. The smarter method would be to increase taxes, create more higher paying jobs. The other way will lead to a recession/depression.
I heard Thom Hartmann today predicting that the Fed will raise interest rates right after the election which will push us farther into recession/depression.

Well, I've never heard of Thom Hartmann, but he's a moron if he believes that.

The underreported economic news of the week is that Barack Obama favors a stronger dollar. Even better, he thinks a stronger greenback would help to reduce oil prices.

They all say that. To strengthen the dollar would take massive cut-backs in government spending, tighter credit and substantial increases in interest rates - all guaranteed to accelerate the collapse of the economy. Politicians traditionally choose to try to spend their way out - guaranteed to put downward pressure on the dollar. The Federal government has backed itself into a corner with no practical options.

Is he gonna cancel the "5 million green collar jobs"?

I'm surprised the WSJ took this stance. The declining dollar means our debt is worth less.

"I never hearde of Thom Hartman" RIGHTISRIGHT

You're the moron

I'm surprised the WSJ took this stance. The declining dollar means our debt is worth less.

But since we're so dependent upon imported goods and products, we've spending more money, which leads to an even more dangerous cycle of inflation. The weak dollar hurts US consumers more than it helps our negative balance in the debt column while it forces individuals deeper into debt themselves simply trying to maintain their lifestyles.

"The Federal government has backed itself into a corner with no practical options."

Well....except the unspeakable....let rescind the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy early. Don't wait until 2011. I even heard two different Republican Congressmen say that tax cut was a mistake yesterday. They also completely agreed with my opinion that the tax cut is the reason we are in this economic situation. If they had not passed that tax cut Greenspan would never have allowed 1% interest rates and the whole housing bubble would not have happened. If even Republican Congressmen are beginning to see the light then I feel pretty sure that the tide is turning on that battle. Wouldn't it be the best poke in the eye for George Bush if they returned from vacation and started discussing that. They may be in a position where they have no other choice. If the dollar were to fall much more I think some of our creditors will be wanting to call in their debts and then they won't care if we have to tax rich folks they will just want their money.

"The declining dollar means our debt is worth less."

And other nations will want higher interest rates on money they loan us.

They also completely agreed with my opinion that the tax cut is the reason we are in this economic situation.

It's the spending stupid! The federal government is technically bankrupt. All they have left is the printing press.

But since we're so dependent upon imported goods and products, we've spending more money, which leads to an even more dangerous cycle of inflation.

Foreign trade per se has nothing to do with our economic problems. Inflation is caused by creating an excess of dollars; there is no other source. The Balance of Trade deficit is driven decades of exporting dollars. The world economy is flooded with them.

The weak dollar hurts US consumers..

Oh, I know. But the WSJ isn't usually the champion of the people.

"It's the spending stupid!"

That's the kind of thinking that turns a recession into a depression. The government needs to spend to increase employment and help money migrate back into circulation. To pay for it we have to tax the rich. We don't need to reinvent the wheel, we've been here before and Roosevelt showed us how to fix it. Hopefully this time it won't require a world war to force us to spend the amount we needed to spend in order to rebuild our economy.
Americans need to learn, there are no free wars.

It's the spending stupid! The federal government is technically bankrupt. All they have left is the printing press.

Posted by Ray

Diong, ding, ding, we have a winner! The only way to break the cycle is to stop spending.

As far as i know, ron paul is the only candidate that even mentions the words 'less' and 'spending' in the same sentence.

but on the other hand, it takes a lot of spending to run a plutocracy.

Yes. It takes a lot of spending to run a plutocracy. It takes more spending to run a kleptocracy. Washington has taken the suicidal course of trying to spend their way out of a disaster they spent us into. There is no chance the election will change the outcome.

"The underreported economic news of the week is that Barack Obama favors a stronger dollar. Even better, he thinks a stronger greenback would help to reduce oil prices."

Why this is BIG news. 'Who knew' a stronger dollar would help reduce oil prices. That Obama is a genius, I tell ya. He is The One. How does he know these things? ...give me a break. Who doesn't favor a stronger dollar? Everybody and their pet dog knows this. But hey, when Obama says it, it is news.

Gee Tony I guess you didn't notice the little sneering swipe the article took at 0bama:
"That at least is what the Democratic Presidential candidate told a town hall forum"

Hey I just had a vision of the future if (yes I said if) 0bama is elected Prez that a couple of years into his Presidency he's laying on the ground muttering:
"Et tu, TonyRoma?"

"It's the spending stupid!"

That's the kind of thinking that turns a recession into a depression. The government needs to spend to increase employment and help money migrate back into circulation. To pay for it we have to tax the rich. We don't need to reinvent the wheel, we've been here before and Roosevelt showed us how to fix it. Hopefully this time it won't require a world war to force us to spend the amount we needed to spend in order to rebuild our economy.
Americans need to learn, there are no free wars.

Posted by danni at 2008

riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

and lets start with redistruting the wealth .how about taking a 'g' from oil company profits
and then we can go to the media and take money from them and give to the poor.......with the dems telling us who the poor is, of course
dollar needs boosting, cant deny that but obama giving from rich and giving to the poor doesnt work.
we have seen it time after time.......

and after he told the little 7 year old girl that he ran for president because we arent worth a shit as a country anymore, he had better do something to correct his bash america image or mccain will tear him apart on it......

also heard audio of michelle asking a little kid what he would ask of barry
and he said.........FINISH WHAT WE STARTED IN IRAQ.
it took her aback for sure.

"...lets start with redistruting the wealth"

We already did that. It's called the Bush tax cuts.

"he told the little 7 year old girl that he ran for president because we arent worth a shit as a country anymore"

That was Laura Ingraham's all-day strawman yesterday. She played a tape of Barack saying he wanted the country to better live up to its dreams and promise, and Ingraham sucked on faux-outrage all day, nearly fainting because it was so insulting that Obama had bashed our country so badly. And here's BLT 24 hours later, faithfully barfing up the spoon-fed straw.

How's it taste the second time?

Who doesn't favor a stronger dollar? -- KBM

Anyone holding dollar-denominated debt.

"Who doesn't favor a stronger dollar? -- KBM"

Lots of people favor a stronger dollar but many don't realize that there are more than one way to attempt to achieve that. Some just want the Fed to increase interest rates like Volker did during Carter's term. It does eventually strangle inflation but it also causes high unemployment.
We need to expand the American economy by forcing investment into alternative energy industries within the US by using higher tax rates with deductions for investment into those industries.
The higher the tax rate the more investment will be generated and the faster we will also pay down some of the war debt.
Even now with the economy in shambles some righties still think you can fight wars without paying for them.

The rich gave YOU the job you now have, go ahead tax them, for them to recoop the money they lost, they'll LAY YOU OFF! Then you can depend on Mr. Obama and his partners in the House and Senate to keep your ass afloat!

Imports, specifically Oil imports ARE a major problem in regard to our deficit, you can't send $700 TRILLION anually, and NOT have it impact. DRILL, DRILL, DRILL and DRILL some more, even if it doesn't lower the prices substantially, it will change our Balance of Trade deficit and keep the money here for our benefit/use. Oil partially got us into the latest crisis, it will, if allowed, help get us out!

Free Trade Pacts have actually helped! If seen in its entirety, they have NET added about 2.5 million jobs, albeit mostly localized jobs. Clearly, if it wasn't for these types of jobs, the transfer of jobs overseas would have been FAR worse that it currently is!

There is NO way to stop this transfer, outside of closing our borders to trade, due to normal, changing economic conditions. This is sad, but true! A large part of our jobs are from immigration into our country, due to lower wages here, in the early 1900's. They are now emmigrating to other countries for the SAME reason.

So blame Bush, Cheney, my Congressman (not yours), your Mayor, the next door neighbor, that noisy idiot down the street, that oaf who stole your weedeater the other day (even though it didn't work anymore), Oh, just about everyone else you can think of, except yourself for being a greedy SOB!

One last thing, if your civilian job depends upon the larges of the Federal Government, you are already on thin ice!

The Fed Funds rate will increase, earliest in December, latest, the first meeting in 2009. By then they will see us climbing out of the hole!

However, the Credit Card crisis will be the next catylist, followed closely, between 2010 - 2012, by the Public Employees State, County, City Retirement Systems crisis.

BE PREPARED!

We need to expand the American economy by forcing investment into alternative energy industries within the US by using higher tax rates with deductions for investment into those industries.

Everything with Danni is force this, force that. If you have to force an investment, then it is probably a loser.

We need to ignore know-nothings like Danni who think sound economics comes at the point of a gun.

BLT, he so funny. Regurgitating the silly rights, silly straw librul bashing. Not working, sandwich man, the bullshit about socialist income redistribution and cut and run and coddling terrorists and all a'that is, well... over fried bullshit. Always has been. Luckily the era of the stupid and the morally blind seems to be coming to a close, as much as you and your own would like to keep it up and running for at least another 4 years. You fucked the country, sandwich dweeb, helped tear it in two, and there's a reckoning a'comin, your ways be dust as real American patriots work to put this cracked egg back together again.
Bye. Bye.

Rupert Murdoch the old fox (who now owns the WSJ) wants Obama to win.

And that's if only because he knows we need to get the Republicans OUT of office for a while.

A McCain presidency would be a total downer and Murdoch knows it.

The rich gave YOU the job you now have, go ahead tax them, for them to recoop the money they lost, they'll LAY YOU OFF! Then you can depend on Mr. Obama and his partners in the House and Senate to keep your ass afloat!

If you're continuing to be a profitable part of their enterprise, why would they lay you off? Taxing them more does slow down economic growth because they have less money to reinvest in capital goods. If you were looking at an aggregate expenditure model it would shift the supply line down.

Imports, specifically Oil imports ARE a major problem in regard to our deficit, you can't send $700 TRILLION anually, and NOT have it impact. DRILL, DRILL, DRILL and DRILL some more, even if it doesn't lower the prices substantially, it will change our Balance of Trade deficit and keep the money here for our benefit/use. Oil partially got us into the latest crisis, it will, if allowed, help get us out!

If it were $700 trillion annually we'd be, frankly, fucked. It's a thousandth of that according to figures I've heard thrown around. But yea, we do need to domestically produce more energy. Energy prices are increasing inflation. It's called stagflation, I believe. Oil is one of the most, if not the most, important input in our economy.

Free Trade Pacts have actually helped! If seen in its entirety, they have NET added about 2.5 million jobs, albeit mostly localized jobs. Clearly, if it wasn't for these types of jobs, the transfer of jobs overseas would have been FAR worse that it currently is!

Yep, free trade is good.

There is NO way to stop this transfer, outside of closing our borders to trade, due to normal, changing economic conditions. This is sad, but true! A large part of our jobs are from immigration into our country, due to lower wages here, in the early 1900's. They are now emmigrating to other countries for the SAME reason.

And we shouldn't. We're going to be an increasingly service-based economy in years to come. Why not? They're jobs for more educated and skilled workers. We're the ones making the architectural drawings, doing the books, or what have you. Besides protecting a few key industries, we should be happy.

"Everything with Danni is force this, force that. If you have to force an investment, then it is probably a loser.

We need to ignore know-nothings like Danni who think sound economics comes at the point of a gun."

We need to ignore those who think the only way to fix the country is to destroy it first. Follow the folks like RAy and you will see America turn into an impoverished, unemployed, ungovernable disaster.
We either decide to rebuild the American economy or we face a rapid decline in living standard and the completion of destruction of the middle class.
If we hadn't built the richest country on Earth by doing exactly what I recommend I'd be quiet but we did and we can do it again if we are strong enough to follow in our grandparents' footsteps. They showed us how to do it we just need to start doing it.

Sorry Danni. All I can do now is prepare for the worst that is yet to come. Too many people like you think government is the solution when all experience should tell you it's the problem. Sadly, this country is over populated by socialists who think prosperity can be returned by police and military force.

This country became the richest country on earth when it was relatively free compared to what it is today. Since the Civil War, we've seen government grow faster than the private economy to the point where it consumes over half of the wealth created in the private economy. We are witness to the effects of the weight of too much government crush the private economy. They can keep things going a little longer until their credit runs out.

We either decide to rebuild the American economy or we face a rapid decline in living standard and the completion of destruction of the middle class.

You have people like yourself to thank.

Your ignorance is appalling, especially when it is coupled by an equal amount of arrogance. You've learned nothing from history and know an equal amount of nothing about economics. All you have is an irresistible urge to meddle in things you don't understand.

"Your ignorance is appalling, especially when it is coupled by an equal amount of arrogance. You've learned nothing from history and know an equal amount of nothing about economics. All you have is an irresistible urge to meddle in things you don't understand."

Self-retort. An arrogant true believer calling someone else "arrogant". Unintentionally funny flag.

Wave the moron flag for Null-brain. Another one with an irresistible urge to meddle in things he doesn't understand. You and Danni make a perfect pair.

"This country became the richest country on earth when it was relatively free compared to what it is today."

You mean when the U.S. had the highest level of protective tariffs in the industrial world?

What an ignoramus. Your revisionist history of the U.S. is horseshit.

"Obama is in favor of a stronger dollar"

So what. Does Flop Ears have any idea what policies can make it happen?

He sounds like the beauty contestants who say they are in favor of workd peace. This is as silly as when he said that if we blew up our tires we could save more gas than if we drilled. Obama is a wacko!

You mean when the U.S. had the highest level of protective tariffs in the industrial world?

Total taxes were relatively small and foreign trade was relative small. Overall the meddling of government in the private economy was relatively small.

More government = more poverty
Less government = more prosperity.

You'll be stupid for the rest of your life. I'm gone.

" I'm gone.

Posted by Ray at 2008-08-09 06:24 PM | Reply "

Good. You never say anything other than the official Von Mises Institute talking points anyway.

"More government = more poverty
Less government = more prosperity."

Nice slogan, too bad the facts prove differntly.
Less government = Hoover
MOre government = Roosevelt

Ray, history does repeat but we are capable of learning, that is what progress is made from.

"More government = more poverty
Less government = more prosperity."
Nice slogan, too bad the facts prove differntly.
Less government = Hoover
MOre government = Roosevelt
Ray, history does repeat but we are capable of learning, that is what progress is made from.
~ DANNI

Ray is in Lust of a system that has never been proven in recorded history...

Less government = Hoover

I remember that piece of propaganda in my government school books. The facts say otherwise. The Federal Reserve caused the speculative boom that brought down the economy. Hoover launched public works programs, price supports, farm subsidies, signed the Smoot-Hawley tariff in 1930, public works and so on to keep the market from correcting itself. Roosevelt was harshly critical of Hoover, but when elected, he made the same mistakes Hoover did. That's why the depression under Roosevelt lasted ten years.

Lesson not learned: market economies are more complex than the human body. I assume you wouldn't be foolish enough to attempt surgery. The same applies when politicians and their cheerleaders meddle in things they don't understand. Look at them. They're bailing out everybody and anybody. That comes out of the private economy. It's like blood letting a patient with a knife wound.

Ray is in Lust of a system that has never been proven in recorded history...

Posted by Zap at 2008-08-09 07:35

There has always been one form of government or another in recorded history. There have been episodes where nations accumulated great wealth with minimal government - Victorian England and early America.

I always wonder how or if Americans will ever learn that the market economy is too complicated for politicians to manage. How much suffering will Americans endure. That is the question.

Ray

One of the morning finance radio shows today told about how China and Iran are buying up a lot of the world's gold. Also they predicted a high for gold of possibly $1700 an ounce.

I always wonder how or if Americans will ever learn that the market economy is too complicated for politicians to manage.
~Ray

Economics' only concern is profit. Politicans have a populous to consider. Are we concerned with profits alone or humanity. Are we all simply numbers.

The WSJ believes a stronger dollar
would be good for the US enonomy?

WOW - they really be economic geniuses, ain't they?

I always wonder how or if Americans will ever learn that the market economy is too complicated for politicians to manage. -- Ray

LOL. Sure. What could bamboozle a politician more than laissez-faire?

"signed the Smoot-Hawley tariff in 1930, "

Make up your mind. You said the high tariffs the U.S. used during the 19th and first half of the 20th weren't important because international trade was low.

Now you're trying to blame tariffs for the depression. LOL. You should debate yourself.

"Between the 1830s and the end of the second world war, the US had one of the highest average tariff rates on manufacturing imports in the world. Since it had an exceptionally high degree of natural protection due to the high costs of transporting goods to the US at least until the 1870s, we can say that US industries were the most protected in the world until 1945. Even the Smoot-Hawley Tariff of 1930 increased the degree of protection in the US economy only marginally. The average tariff rate for manufactured goods after this bill was 48%, still within the upper region of the range of the average rates that had prevailed in the US since the Civil War. It is only in relation to the brief liberal interlude of 1913-29 that the 1930 tariff bill can be interpreted as increasing protectionism, though not by much - from 37% in 1925 to 48% in 1931."

Economics' only concern is profit.

That's supposed to be bad? You cannot create wealth without profits. The word has been demonized, when it's nothing but an accounting term for savings. Without consumer and business savings, there is no capital to expand and improve production.

Politicans have a populous to consider. Are we concerned with profits alone or humanity. Are we all simply numbers.

Posted by Zap

Politicians take care of themselves and their friends first. They can't manage their spending without debt and the printing press. So now instead of a savings driven economy, we have a debt driven economy. That is why a Depression is inevitable.

One of the morning finance radio shows today told about how China and Iran are buying up a lot of the world's gold. Also they predicted a high for gold of possibly $1700 an ounce.

Posted by CalifChris

Sure. They are preparing to cut themselves off from a dollar based economy. More to follow.

Politicians take care of themselves and their friends first.

Indeed a human frailty, yet you see a capitalist driven world as a utopia.

One drive by humans, that very amusing Ray.

Indeed a human frailty, yet you see a capitalist driven world as a utopia.

There is no Utopia. But it's a vast improvement from giving an elitist class license to take care of themselves at the expense of everybody else. The Wall Street bailouts should leave no doubt where their interests lie.

A viable capitalist economy requires minimal government intervention in the economic decisions of private individuals. Central planners are incapable of making better decisions for individuals than they can themselves.

If society ever gets to that point, there would have to be massive cultural changes. In the mean time, you can expect the politicians to make bad matters worse.

Indeed a human frailty, yet you see a capitalist driven world as a utopia.

There is no utopia.. Only republocrats believe in that.. There is, however, a better way and Ray is right on..

Central planners are incapable of making better decisions for individuals than they can themselves.

Ray your assumption speaks of an equality in individuals that does not exist. The strong will prey on the weak to even an greater degree than exists today. Are you really that calvinist in belief?

"I never hearde of Thom Hartman" RIGHTISRIGHT

You're the moron

Posted by igmoramus
* * * *

First of all, douchebag, don't put something I said in between quotes, then misspell a word, then call ME a moron.

Second, I just Googled him, and learned he's a talk radio host on Air America. Which puts me in with the 95.5% of America who's never heard of him, and the 2.5% of America who said that they HAD heard of him, but were actually thinking of David Hartman. And if he said something as idiotic as Danni claims, his anonymity is a blessing.

WSJ? ...A.K.A. FOX NOISE on paper

Ray your assumption speaks of an equality in individuals that does not exist. The strong will prey on the weak to even an greater degree than exists today. Are you really that calvinist in belief?

Posted by Zap

Noticed where I introduced the "if."

Now you're trying to blame tariffs for the depression. LOL. You should debate yourself.

Posted by nullifidian at 2008-08-09 08:21

I listed a whole series of government actions that caused the Great Depression. Jerk!

Bush claims his policy includes a strong dollar.

oops, he fucked up again.

no matter, the stupid fucks that voted for and against him can pay.

for his fuckups, shrub gets secret service protection wherever he goes.

Again - simplistic understanding of economy without considering the other side of the coin.

We have had a stoppage of manufacturing moving overseas since the fall of the dollar..and in fact have seen a slight increase. Why? A weak dollar means that it is cheaper to produce things HERE than to to produce things elsewhere and then transport them here.

The combination of high transport cost and lower dollar value has had this effect.

Keeping the dollar weak will insure higher prices at the pump...but also insure that we maintain some manufacturing.

The BEST of all worlds is a weak dollar AND significant Oil / Energy supply. So build Nuke plants, drill for oil, and keep a weak dollar and the US economy will prosper.

FoS,

you don't move factories overnight. besides their capital investment, labor rates remain the same and the yua, won and yen are pegged to the dollar anyway. you don't really think the capital that moved overseas is going to play fair, do you? you don't really believe in free markets, do you?

The yuan and the yen are NOT pegged to the dollar; the won is.

Nut - you are right - factory's doe not move over night...but if you have a factory in the US and one in Europe - or Asia - how MUCH work you have that factory doing is impacted by the currency in the world market. Also - most manufacturing is "jobbed" out by the larger companies..so a US manufacture will be more competitive in this environment that they would be under a strong dollar.

The net is Stronger Dollar = Less Manufacturing in the US.