There is no place in the workplace for a preferred religion and I think Tyson's shareholders will feel the same way.
##############################
#

Only if it doesn't affect their stock holdings.

"Union leaders said implementing the holiday was important for the nearly 700 Muslims, many of them Somalis, who work at the plant that employs a total of 1,200 people."

Do I really need to say anything else?

Isn't this what religionists want? For the majority to decide what the religion for all will be?

They sure do when they think it's always going to be Christianity.

A special prayer room has been set aside for the Muslims working at Tyson Foods? Give me a break. Did they build the foot baths yet too? Give these Muslims an inch (and a courtrooom) and they will take a mile.

Tyson Foods -- at the very maximum -- should have only allowed their Muslim employees to take one unpaid day off to celebrate and that's it.

Why is the Muslim religion being catered to and fawned over all the time in this country. Is it because they drag every employer into court and sue them if they don't?

I know when I was working at a major firm we were allowed three hours off for the Christian religious day of Good Friday. They gave us the option to taking the time off without penalty but the employees had to absorb the loss of pay from their own paychecks.

We also didn't have a "special prayer room" like the Muslims. I don't ever recall Christian employees who observed "Good Friday" demanding on that day the firm allow some priest to swing incense and stop to make the 14 Stations of the Cross up and down the firm's hallways either.

If employers do not join together now and stop this takeover by Muslims on the basis of honoring their religion over everyone else's, the U.S. will end up an Islamic country.

Yeah, and no company lets employees off for Yom Kippur or Purim or...

"Tyson Foods -- at the very maximum -- should have only allowed their Muslim employees to take one unpaid day off to celebrate and that's it."

Same for Christian employees and Christmas? Unpaid?

"Why is the Muslim religion being catered to and fawned over all the time in this country. "

Did you read the article? Muslims are the majority of the workers at the plant. They also vote for the Union representation, and tell their reps what they expect from them in negotiation. Good for them, for getting what they want.

I'm confused CC. Are you saying its OK for Christmas to be a paid holiday, but not Eid al Fitr?

Union leaders said implementing the holiday was important for the nearly 700 Muslims, many of them Somalis, who work at the plant that employs a total of 1,200 people.

Union leaders said implementing the holiday was important for the nearly 700 Muslims, many of them Somalis, who work at the plant that employs a total of 1,200 people.

Union leaders said implementing the holiday was important for the nearly 700 Muslims, many of them Somalis, who work at the plant that employs a total of 1,200 people.

Any questions?

Fuck'em! They're Izzys.

-nanc

OK, NO religious holidays.
For anyone.
Ever.
Under any circumstances.
Happy Festivus!

Not that Tyson chicken sounded appetizing before, but 700 Somali muslims?
No thanks. I would hazzard a guess that Tyson doesn't need this type of press.

So when 58% of any company decides something then it must be acepted, right?

I've got 4 days a year that are "floating" holidays. I can use them for whatever I want. That would be fair.

"So when 58% of any company decides something then it must be acepted, right?"

Don't understand how Unions work, do you? It wouldn't surprise me if the local president and/or chief negotiator was a Muslim. They asked, the owners agreed, and both sides signed it. Why do Republicans want to get between business owners and their business decisions?

"I've got 4 days a year that are "floating" holidays. I can use them for whatever I want. That would be fair."

I imagine Tyson thought it was a better business decision to designate the day, rather than run the risk of 60% of their labor force taking a floater on the same day.

Why do Republicans want to get between business owners and their business decisions?

Posted by Danforth at 2008-08-04 04:02 PM | Reply |

Republicans do that? I could swear that it's liberals that are constantly bitching about business decisions. Are you sure you meant republicans dan?
I'm just wondering...You know, for the fuck of it, what would be the liberal response had this company been 58% white supremicists and they decided that Hitlers B-day was the day they wanted off.
Instead though, it's the muslims. And like clockwork the same bleeding hearts put aside their hatred for all things religious when it involves the poor muslims.

That's probably true.

YEAH!

Good thing we live in a Free Country! Those who dont like Tysons decision are Free to Go Work Elsewhere any time they can muster the resources!

But I have to wonder what kind of bottom rung employee would Pooh-Pooh a paid day off?

Oh, thats right, one so dumb as to cut off his own nose to spite his face (i.e. Bush voter)!

"And like clockwork the same bleeding hearts put aside their hatred for all things religious when it involves the poor muslims."

If it were the Jews and Passover, no one would make a peep. That it's Muslims, and folks are all against it, speaks volumes.

This country was founded on Christian-Judaeo principles, beliefs, and honoring those holidays are part of our American tradition and heritage. Are we suppose to trash and get rid of all our own heritage to cater to every single new immigrant with a different religion. That's why this kumbaya, PCBS is a joke.

I don't go over to their countries founded on Islamic principles and demand my Christian holidays be observed and honored -- and I wouldn't get it either. I'd probably only get beheaded.

So, do we next have a paid day off for the Wiccans and the Pagans? How about a Buddist holiday too? What about another day off for the Tibetan monks and the Hindus?

And don't forget a paid day off to just do nothing to honor the atheists in the group who believe in nothing. Where does it end? How many splinter groups and religions do we cater to? Isn't it enough for these immigrants from all over the world now pouring in and making their religious demands that they can to practice their religion in this country without penalty of death -- unlike in their own countries. Always more and more demands. If they don't like it, let these Muslims go back to Somalia.

Where I work, we used to only get Christmas day off as a paid holiday. Pretty much anybody with vacation time left at the end of the year would take Christmas Eve off too.

Logistically, it was just simpler to make Christmas Eve a paid holiday (at the expense of a minor holiday), than to try to operate an office and a field crew when 75% of the company had the day off. We did the same thing with making the Friday after Thanksgiving a paid holiday.

If my company was predominately Muslim, Jewish, or whatever, I suspect we'd probably re-arrange our paid holidays as we did with Christmas Eve or the Friday after Thanksgiving. If we didn't, we'd either be stuck denying people time off for a religious holiday or trying to operate an office at < 25% staffing.

"Union leaders said implementing the holiday was important for the nearly 700 Muslims, many of them Somalis, who work at the plant that employs a total of 1,200 people."

I'm personally concerned that there are 700 moslems, many of them somalis with sharp objects in any US city or town. I'm curious do they refer to their union proctor as "warlord"?

On a serious note:

Labor Day is a United States federal holiday observed on the first Monday in September. The holiday originated in 1882 as the Central Labor Union (of New York City) sought to create "a day off for the working man".

Congress made Labor Day a federal holiday in 1894.[1] All fifty states have made Labor Day a state holiday.

I guess the kicker is the fact that this is a Federal and all 57 (for Obama folks) State Recognized Holiday for, you guessed it, Labor... Sure, the non-union folks (only ~200people) can still take the day off but I'm sure that number will dwindle.

This is just un-believable. Unions are the Devil!

What will eventually happen is that there'll be so many different wacko religions demanding their religious rights the employers will eventually be forced to take away any and all religious holidays and we will see Christmas and Hannaukah thrown out the window. There will eventually be no Christmas/Hannuakah parties allowed at work each year, nada.

You want to soon see United States of Americastan?
Look at Great Britain and the Muslim mess that country has become.

Amen!

"Look at Great Britain and the Muslim mess that country has become."

That's because the UK doesn't allow them to be full participants and doesn't absorb them into their society. Do we want to go down that same road?

Hannaukah = Hannakuh

Danforth

The Muslims only THINK they aren't being allowed to be absorbed because they are always demanding all their religious rights take precedence over British law. The Muslim women physicians want to wear their veils while pracicing as doctors -- something not allowed the hospitals. The demand Sharia law instead of British law, and on and on it goes. Everything has to be accomodated for the Muslims conveniencs. How about, for a change, the Muslims try assimilating to the country where they have barged into and quit expecting everyone to cater to them.

pracicing = practicing

This is just un-believable. Unions are the Devil!--

YEAH!

Unless that Union is the NRA of course, or the Federalist Society ---- then apparently a collective representing the interests of its Dues Paying Members is perfectly agreeable and palatable to our closely held convictions!

Sincerely
The Increasingly Stupid Looking DR right--

"You know, for the fuck of it, what would be the liberal response had this company been 58% white supremicists and they decided that Hitlers B-day was the day they wanted off."

Where you gonna find 700 White Supremecists who want to work when they could be blaming other people for the fact that they are unemployable?

"The Muslims only THINK they aren't being allowed to be absorbed"

Oh, please. Look at France, and the problems there. European societies simply don't assimilate foreigners like America does. And if you isolate people, of course they'll seek out an identity. If you isolate an entire group, they'll look for a group identity.

Oh please, nobody is "isolating" these Muslims. They're in our workforce (probably taking American-born citizens jobs on the cheap) and most likely 99% of them are getting fat U.S. government refugee checks every month with my tax dollars too.

As for Europe, nobody does more PCBS for the Muslims and other foreigners than the Swedes and Norwegians and other very liberal countries but even those countries can't stand them anymore. Demand, demand, demand -- their own laws, their own customs take precedence, blah blah blah. Really, for supposedly "grateful" new immigrants for being allowed to come to our country these Muslims are the most demanding, selfish, and litigious group ever to arrive on our shores.

As for France, it was all Muslims who torched 5000 cars in Paris and set a handicapped person on fire during the Muslim riots. They would throw bombs at the police and then whine it was police harassment.

Get real, how much do you want to bend over and grab your ankles for the Muslims' non-stop demands until you finally get a backbone and say -- This is our country, you should be grateful you're here, and we have no intention of changing all our our laws, customs, heritage and beliefs only to satisfy you.

Ever notice, btw, how they demand Sharia law until it comes time to suing some corporation or small business owner in OUR legal system? Then U.S. law is more than okay. They are a bunch of phonies using our country and its laws and generosity all for their own benefit and monetary gain. You can go ahead and be a wimp and let your country be taken over. I won't.

Redneckville - Wow! You really think there's a parallel between organized labor (this article) and the NRA or the Federalist Society? I'm sure that I can just go to this Union's website and join, right? You mean I can't? then what's your point? What about the states where there is forced unionization? What do you mean I can't opt out? I would love to see how these two Private organizations are similar to Labor unions.

Where in this country can you have discourse on issues around religion, politics, the environment, etc. without being branded as racists, misogynists (misandry is acceptable, right Danni?), rednecks or homophobes. Heaven forbid that I follow a NASCAR race or two (although that won't last much longer with the competition caution BS) and live below the Mason Dixon.

"What do you mean I can't opt out?"

You can, and have been able to since the Beck decision of 1988.

You're only 20 years behind.

Communication Workers v. Beck, which established the rights of employees working under union contracts to pay only those union dues or fees necessary for performance of a unions employee representation duties. Under Beck, fees to support union expenditures unrelated to workplace representation, such as political, social, or charitable contributions, are not mandatory.

I am a bit rusty on my union knowledge as it has been a while since I belonged to one but I'm pretty sure that most of the options you have are based on the collective bargaining agreement between the Employer and the Extor, er, union. (Open, Agency, and Union Shops). Has all of that changed?

"As for France, it was all Muslims who torched 5000 cars in Paris and set a handicapped person on fire during the Muslim riots. "

Do you think the fact they work in the society, yet aren't eligible for the equivalent of Social Security, has any effect? And have you been there? The French have ostracized the Muslims since day one.

"This is our country, you should be grateful you're here, and we have no intention of changing all our our laws, customs, heritage and beliefs only to satisfy you."

But wait, we're a democratic society, right? If the majority of folks in one area want a change, they can vote for it. Isn't that the point?

"Oh please, nobody is "isolating" these Muslims."

You're joking, right? You've been bashing them this whole thread, and for what? Exercising their collective bargaining rights. Can't get much more American than that.

It used to be that I could only Opt-out of the union in Open and Agency Shops although in an Agency shop I would still have to pay the dues and in a union shop you joined or didn't work. Are there more options now? How about for teachers? Can they opt out of the union and still have a career in teaching?

taking a floater

----

Hey, when you gotta go, you gotta go.

"Are there more options now? How about for teachers? Can they opt out of the union and still have a career in teaching?"

Yes, it's called Financial Core.

"the collective bargaining agreement between the Employer and the Extor, er, union."

The operative word in that sentence is agreement. Every one has two sets of signatures: labor, and management. And if you think Unions are extortionists...you're right, it's been a long time since you've been involved. All too often the raises these days don't even meet COL.

Agreement, Contract, blood oath, whatever. If their 'leadership' can't bargain for what they need vs. feel good bullshit like this that's going to make them more of a nuisance to their community then they're probably worth then they need much better leadership and they will never get my pity.

" If their 'leadership' can't bargain for what they need vs. feel good bullshit like this "

They wanted this. And management agreed; that's all that matters. And why do you assume the Union negotiators don't bargain for what the workers "need"? That's usually the main thrust in pre-negotiating strategy sessions. This may have been added by management at the 11th hour to seal the deal. Yet you're pretending it was the only issue.

" that's going to make them more of a nuisance to their community"

Then that's the community's shortcoming, isn't it? Besides, with 60% of the workers, they probably are the community.

60% of Tyson - 700 of a community of ~17,000

Yeah, and no company lets employees off for Yom Kippur or Purim or...

Posted by Jomama

Yom Kippur yes... Purim no...

PS Fuck Muslims, they should all be deported, or not allowed in cities.

PS Fuck Muslims, they should all be deported, or not allowed in cities.

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

Let me zee your papers citizen.

For the record, I work with a bunch of Swiss guys and they get christian holidays off that I've never even heard of...and I was beaten by nuns.

I think all A_Holes should be deported, no matter what kind of voodoo they practice.

Hey A_Hole!!! Go back to A_holia!!! or A_holistan, wherever you came from!!!

I think all A_Holes should be deported, no matter what kind of voodoo they practice.

Posted by RastaCyborg

If you want to live in a boring country move to Canada...

who gives a fuck? maybe calf chris should put on a smock and go to work in a meat plant. usa is filling up with central asian muslim refugees who snitched for the cia and are now here as refugees. the only jobs are the shit work in meat factories. they have unlimited work visas (christian latinos are being sent away)so they get the work. if you don't like it go ahead and take their jobs--you'll love evicerating chickens for $7.50 an hour.....

If you want to live in a boring country move to Canada...

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

Clearly you've never visited Yonge St. in TO or St. Catherine's St. in Montreal.

Interesting - Shelbyville isn't listed:

Clearly you've never visited Yonge St. in TO or St. Catherine's St. in Montreal.

Posted by RastaCyborg

Nah, I've been to Montreal and Toronto quite a few times... yawn.

Wow!! 19 Mosques in Tennessee!!! Maybe in 1,000 years there will be as many muslim morons in Tennessee as there are christian morons.

Nah, I've been to Montreal and Toronto quite a few times... yawn.

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

Well, I guess it depends on what you're looking for, and I don't think I want to know what turns YOUR crank.

It'd be weird to work at that plant and celebrate this holiday, but how is it any different for non-Christians to work at a plant that honors a Christmas holiday? If your workforce is predominantly Muslim, shifting holidays to reflect that workforce may be the fairest thing to do. Either that, or giving workers more flexibility in the holidays they take.

Eid ul-Fitr , often abbreviated to Eid, is a Muslim holiday that marks the end of Ramadan, the Islamic holy month of fasting. Eid is an Arabic word meaning "festivity", while Fitr means "to break the fast" (and can also mean "nature", from the word "fitrah") and so symbolizes the breaking of the fasting period.

Why that's almost as nutty as that "Lent" thing. I used to stop at this Italian deli twice a week for lunch (great freakin food); anyway, it was bought out by these muslim guys from Yemen and they were smart enough to keep all the kitchen staff. They were surly bastards during ramadan because they had to smell that freakin' awesome food all day long. I laughed as I chowed down.

There is no place in the workplace for a preferred religion and I think Tyson's shareholders will feel the same way.
Merry Christmas and a Happy Easter to you!

I woulda thought the Rightys here would be overjoyed Tyson is celebrating a day dear to the hearts of the saudis, and thus, the Bushies, instead of a commie holiday celebrating lazy(non-offshore) workers.

"""This country was founded on Christian-Judaeo principles, beliefs, and honoring those holidays are part of our American tradition and heritage."""

With all due respect cc, things change. Hell in some cultures, they would sacrifice a virgin to insure good crops. Same same but different.

If you feel so strongly about it, start a petition to make your country a theocracy.

Last place I worked--the owners were Jewish. They provided the regular holidays--about 9 - 10 total..
Christmas Day and Christmas Eve if close to the weekend or go home at 1:00. The July 4th and July 3rd if close to the weekend or half a day. Memorial, Labor Day, Thanksgiving and the day before if close to the weekend or half the day to go home early.

They also gave folks the choice of taking off Good Friday, MLK Day or Presidents Day. The employee could choose one.

Another company I worked for gave 1/2 day off for VOTING--national election only. Now that I think about it--they were Jewish as well.

They shouldn't be choosing for the other 500 employees. Labor Day is pretty secular--everyone plans for this Holiday--except for muslims.

It could be a choice--either they take off Labor Day or the eid day.

"Labor Day is pretty secular--everyone plans for this Holiday--except for muslims."

What makes you think that, Goofy?

Apart from Christmas, what Christian holiday do you get off from work? One day. It is so entrenched in our culture that it is more of a "commercial" holiday than a religous one.

Halloween, Thanksgiving, Memorial Day, Labor Day, MLK day (why didn't tyson replace this one?). Not many people get Good Friday off anymore.

The holiday structure as it currently stands works for the majority of the country. If muslims, hindus or wikkens (sp) want to have their respective holidays off, no one is stopping them from having their own company with it's own holidays.

Chic-fil-a employees get every Sunday off btw. Don't like it, don't work there.

Why that's almost as nutty as that "Lent" thing. -rastachcycywborg

Wow more religous tolerance from the left. Oh wait, I mean more tolerance for anything mooslim from the left.

the left loves muslims almost as much as bush cheney rumsfield and the entire saudi friendship wing of the retardedcan party. you are a phony and a hypocritical texasshole

Chic-fil-a employees get every Sunday off btw. Don't like it, don't work there.

Posted by ELCIDCE90

Tyson gets Eid al-Fitr off, don't like it? Don't work there.

Wow more religous tolerance from the left. Oh wait, I mean more tolerance for anything mooslim from the left.

Posted by ELCIDCE90

All forms of religion are voodoo to me. And spelling it "mooslim" only makes you sound stupid.

It warms my heart to hear everyone sing the praises of our best holiday, Labor Day.

rip labor day and laborers

Why do we on the left keep getting accused of preferring the muslim brand of mental illness to the christian one?

Both have had their different hay-days for absolutely ridiculous and outmoded beliefs, as well as their fair share of human rights violations, and personally, I think the muslims are a problem, as they are currently the most voraciously ready to kill in the name of their imaginary scary bearded guy-in-the-sky.

But to prefer them over christians? Sure, Serbia was mostly that brand, but for the most part, muslims are the most devoted to human rights violations right now.

Quit being such a little martyr. Your god did that part just fine, and i'm still not sure he wasn't just playing an, "adult game," if you will, and forgot the safety word.

Wait......................Hear that? That's Irony. A Union dropping Labor Day? Ha, you lefties are screwed. Your unions no longer represent you.

I'm amazed at the level of hostility directed towards the decision by Tyson. A private company chooses to re-arrange its holiday schedule in order to avoid dealing with 60% of its employees taking the same day off for a religious holiday. If they didn't, they'd either have to deny vacation days or operate a facility with 40% staffing. This decision has nothing to do with being PC and everything to do with profitability/efficiency.

I'm not a particularly religious person but I didn't object when my company decided to give us Christmas Eve off as a paid holiday at the expense of Presidents Day.

Plus, I thought many on the right would be happy about the decision. You'd think they'd love to drop Labor Day (aka, May Day) as a holiday due to its socialist roots.

This is such a non-story. I don't believe so many people are getting worked up over it.

A majority of the work force asked that one of the 8 holidays they get a year be used for a special holiday for them.. The management agreed and life moves on...

Business willing to work with their employees and make compromises really shouldn't be a story...

"This country was founded on Christian-Judaeo principles, beliefs..."

"Always more and more demands. If they don't like it, let these Muslims go back to Somalia."

I'm sure the Indians felt the same way about the whites who sort of showed up, took over, and started founding the country with those lofty Christian-Judeo principles and beliefs. Add theft, rape, murder, attempted genocide, and solving the problem of those uppity savages by forcing them onto reservations in the middle of bum frak Egypt as methods employed for founding the country.

I'm sure those African slaves also appreciated those wonderful Christian-Judeo principles and beliefs as they were herded onto slave ships, brought to a strange land, sold, beaten, raped, worked to death, treated like animals.

This country was founded on the love of jesus and god and the bible and all that rot and it worked real well. If you were white and "christian."

"That's Irony. A Union dropping Labor Day? Ha, you lefties are screwed. Your unions no longer represent you."

You couldn't have it more backward. These workers wanted that day off, they obviously discussed it with their negotiators, and the Union negotiators got it in the contract.

The Union representation worked perfectly.

Whether "Labor Day" is honored or not is meaningless. The workers wants are MUCH more important.

Holidays used to truly mean something in the US.

Anynmore, most of the stores are open on designate4d national holidays, all the big sales enticing those few who are not working to come in and piss away their money on crap they probably don't need.

Christmas has become so watered down and a political bomb (can't say Merry Christmas, gotta be the winter holiday, Santa rules, jesus drools) that it should be removed from the list of national days off. You want to celebrate Christmas? Take a day off. You want to celebrate Eid al-Fitr? Take a day off. Don't trade off a designated national holiday for a religious holiday.

I hope this is challenged in the courts.

"I hope this is challenged in the courts."

On what grounds? Two sides in a collective bargaining situation agreed to something amenable to both sides. What's to challenge?

I'm usually the first one to say when Muslims are acting like jerkoffs but I seriously have no idea why this upsets some of you so much.

Its an agreement between two parties, neither of whom are complaining about it. The non-Muslims get the paid day off too and I'm sure they somehow find a way to enjoy that. It really isn't anybody else's business.

Quit being such a bunch of whiney little pussies, please.

"The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the absence from Jerusalem of a lunatic asylum." -- Thomas Paine

It's not like they're demanding the female workers wear head scarves, or some other method of implementing Sharia law.

Just a holiday. Who cares.

"It's not like they're demanding the female workers wear head scarves, or some other method of implementing Sharia law."

I'm anxiously awaiting the day when Sharia law is declared in the U.S. and they force Danni to put on that Burqa. Now THAT will be something to live for.

"I'm anxiously awaiting the day when Sharia law is declared in the U.S. and they force Danni to put on that Burqa. Now THAT will be something to live for."

Posted by jestgettinalong

Danni, sweating profusely, in traditional Muslim clothing?

Now that's HOT!

I can't wait till you religion hating folk are forced to pray 8 times a day.

I can't wait till you religion hating folk are forced to pray 8 times a day.

Posted by retnluvnit at 2008-08-05 11:59 AM

Been there, done that.

I went to public school in the South..

yes, but you will be praying to allah.

Where's the Christian chapel? Is there place for the Jewish employees to worship?

from the article:

Former employee and Shelbyville resident Anthony Proctor said he thinks what's happening is wrong.

He said he helped build a special Muslim prayer room that's located inside the plant and that no other Tyson facility has been that accommodating for any other religion.

"If we want to go pray, we dont have one for Christians," he said....

Cathoic = Catholic

"On what grounds? Two sides in a collective bargaining situation agreed to something amenable to both sides. What's to challenge?"

Posted by Danforth

Probably on no specific legal grounds at all. Though IMHO, trading out a National holiday for a religious holiday is just not right. There's gotta be something in the nebulous separation of church and state stuff.

This change out affects only a few hundred people, at this time. But once precedent is set...

"If you don't get a grip on this now -- we will soon look like Great Britain. England has now become two countries within one."

I really don't understand the thinking of our little leftist-socialist citizens who want to exercise all this tolerance and compassion for these Muslims. If these people get their way there will be hell to pay and our little friends will be the payers. Do you think there might be many, many stonings and beheadings for THESE tolerant and compassionate folks?

"Probably on no specific legal grounds at all. Though IMHO, trading out a National holiday for a religious holiday is just not right. "

So screw the law, sue because you feel it's "just not right"?!?

"When will soon any display of Christmas decorations by the 40% still working at the plant offend the religious sensitivities of the Muslims working there and soon none will be allowed? Just give it time. It will happen."

Again, isn't that what religionists want? The majority to dictate religions and religious behavior to the minorities? It seems the folks complaining the loudest are the same who want the Ten Commandments posted in the Courthouse, and are now claiming foul because they mistakenly thought they'd always be the majority.

Chris-fortunately those 12 million illegal Mexicans are catholic. Oughta balance out them 700 somolis.

NorthGuy3

Chris-fortunately those 12 million illegal Mexicans are catholic. Oughta balance out them 700 somolis.

You ought to talk. Your country of Canada is vehemently anti-Mexican -- unlike the U.S. which has taken in at least 20 million from Mexico. Ask anyone from Mexico who has applied for refuge in your country of Canada or for a visa to live there and ask what kind of "Canadian welcome" they received.

Canada is so racist they even fasttrack the Mexicans' refugee hearings so they can more quickly get them out of Canada. Fact.

Yet you Canadians are the first ones to come on here on a U.S. blog and rail against us if we even discuss problems we have here in the U.S. with uncontrolled illegal immigration. Your hypocracy is a joke. You Canadians and your phony crocodile tears for illegals who pour into our country but you can't get rid of yours fast enough.

The U.S. takes in more immigrants every year than any other country in the world. Fact.

So, NG3, why don't you do us Americans all a favor and take a nice long ride on a Canadian Grayhound bus.

This may come back and bite Tyson in the butt. Don't know about Tennessee, but most civilized states require that no Union contract provide less than the state or Federal (usually state) standards. It's possible somebody required to work on Labor Day could, regardless of the Contract language, claim holiday pay plus overtime for that day. And then there's the question of suppliers like trucking companies, etc. being available on labor day.
Unless they're mexican, of course...

And then there's the question of suppliers like trucking companies, etc. being available on labor day.
Unless they're mexican, of course...

Posted by northguy3 at 2008-08-05 01:49 PM | Reply | Flag

Wow, you made a valid point, I'm shocked.

How productive can a company, or a plant of that size be on Labor Day? Every other company that supplies them or that they would be shipping to would be closed.

It will probably turn in to a "Clean Your Homicide Belt Day" or a "Gather Rocks for a Public Stoning Day".

"How productive can a company, or a plant of that size be on Labor Day? "

As productive as they want. Order double the daily supplies, delivered the day before.

So screw the law, sue because you feel it's "just not right"?!?

Posted by Danforth

Yikes!! Chill Danny-Boy!! I'm not suing anybody or screwing anything.

A decision was made for everybody in that plant, Muslim or not. Now out of the 500+ non-Muslims, how many are gonna be ticked when Labor Day rolls around and all their buddies are up at the lake on what is a traditional, national holiday, hooking fish and popping beers and they're stuck gutting chickens? And what are these same boys gonna do on Eid al-Fitr? Go to Mosque, wash their footies, have some lamb-ka-bob?

As productive as they want. Order double the daily supplies, delivered the day before.

Posted by Danforth at 2008-08-05 01:55 PM | Reply

That's not how things work in the real world unfortunately. Getting a truck is hard enough on a normal week. Getting double the amount the day or even week prior to Labor Day or any other major Holiday (especially one that would be at months end...the Friday before Labor Day) is almost impossible.
Not to mention the fact that companies aren't in the practice of having additional warehouse space laying around for the hell of it. Also, what do they do with the additional finished product that ordinarily would be shipping OUT?

I know that stooge Rastaborg is a trucker. I'm sure he'll want to disagree with me, but any objective person knows trucks are nearly impossible to get at month end. He should also be aware that warehouse space isn't going unused at most companies.

I don't mean to imply that everyone should know the ins and outs of shipping freight. I meant to imply anyone that has worked in trucking, shipping/recieving, or the sales of goods that ship in Truckload and LTL quantities knows that trucking is tight.

Plus, I thought many on the right would be happy about the decision. You'd think they'd love to drop Labor Day (aka, May Day) as a holiday due to its socialist roots

~Katieberry

Pretty much THIS.

Actually, that whole post by KB is worth perusing.

Spud's only objection to this decision was the fact that it would make more sense (from Spud's perspective) to trade President's Day fer Eid rather than Labour Day.

The rights of workers around the globe are being trampled on and the holiday deserves better treatment by a union.

Be Well.

Unless I'm reading it wrong, this now means every non-Muslim at Tyson's will never be able to plan a three-day weekend anymore as Labor Day was traditionally celebrated on a Monday but Eid al Fitr can fall on any day of the week.

All non-Muslim employees must now give up forever any (since 1882) traditional end of summer, long Labor Day weekend plans with their families and friends? (Excellent point you made, ZOT, about this same thing in your post above.)

from Wikipedia:

Labor Day is a United States federal holiday observed on the first Monday in September. The holiday originated in 1882 as the Central Labor Union (of New York City) sought to create "a day off for the working man".

Congress made Labor Day a federal holiday in 1894. All fifty states have made Labor Day a state holiday. Traditionally, Labor Day is celebrated by most Americans as the symbolic end of the summer....

I also think Tater made a great point in this sentence from his above post:

The rights of workers around the globe are being trampled on and the holiday
deserves better treatment by a union.

- Dethspud

"A decision was made for everybody in that plant, Muslim or not"

The same when decisions were made everywhere else for the benefit of the majority Christian employees. The only reason folks are up in arms is ---gasp! ---these people are different.

I hope every religionist who wants to mix faith and governance takes notice.

One final question for anyone who wants to answer it.

Here's a hypothetical situation --

Catholics make the sign of the cross before praying often by first dipping their fingers into holy water [water blessed by a priest). The holy water is normally kept in a small bowl placed in a recessed portion of a wall or on top of a small stand made to hold the bowl.

If a Catholic employee wanted a holy water font at Tyson's to use before making their own prayers should they be able to get it? After all, foot baths are provided to the Muslims.

How about in the prayer room Tyson built for the Muslim employees? Shouldn't Tyson also put holy water fonts in the prayer room should Catholics wish to go in and use that room to pray? Or is no one else allowed to use the prayer room but Muslims? And if so, why?

(I don't know enough about the Jewish religion or other religions to use similar examples to make my point so I just used one I was familiar with. Maybe someone else can think of some.)

"just to curry favor with a single religous group. "

Bull. They're currying favor with a worker group.

"The rights of workers around the globe are being trampled on and the holiday deserves better treatment by a union."

I completely disagree. The wants of the workers should be more important than preserving some pseudo-Union holiday. For the negotiators to put their desire to retain Labor Day over the workers' desires to trade for EID would be defeating the entire purpose of representation. The leaders aren't there to get what YOU OR I want in the contract, they're there to get what their rank-and-file want. Exactly what they did in this case.

This will ultimately prove to be a waste of Tysons money. There is no way they will be able to operate efficiently while working on Labor Day.

Tyson simply submitted.

Anyone know if Dobbs, O'Reilly, Hannity, Malkin, etc have picked up on this?

"If a Catholic employee wanted a holy water font at Tyson's to use before making their own prayers should they be able to get it?"

If you truly want it, bring it up at the next Union meeting; your representatives will try to get it into the next contract.

"If you truly want it, bring it up at the next Union meeting; your representatives will try to get it into the next contract." - Danforth -

Bingo! we have a winner!!! Imagine the uproar and outrage if Protestant or Catholic groups in unions all started exercising their rights as a majority and the work lost due to their demands not being met (via strike or supporting another striking org).

It's not a union/employer issue, in fact, it's a hostile work environment and therefore an EEOC issue - I do foresee a lawsuit, maybe not on the Holiday but for the prayer rooms and footbaths. If this were a woman having to walk by and see pictures of 'neked' (in my Southern drawal) women at work, oh my word, the rucus that would cause. It's just not right. This company has NO RIGHT to create this hostile environment for non-moslems. Period!

A bunch of people are posting things along the line of "Where does it end?"

You know where it ends? When Tyson's profits are hurt more by accomodating these people than they would be by hiring others to do the same work.

The more religious concessions unions ask for, the more concessions they are going to have to make with pay and benefits.

"Imagine the uproar and outrage if Protestant or Catholic groups in unions all started exercising their rights as a majority and the work lost due to their demands not being met"

They have that right. If it means striking over a stupid thing like footbaths or holy water, they're free to be stupid. But trust me, no one in this environment is doing that.

And no work has been lost over this; you're arguing a strawman.

"The more religious concessions unions ask for..."

The first time Christmas was requested off, it was a religious concession.

"You know where it ends? When Tyson's profits are hurt..."

Speaking of that, what's the ETA on the American Family Association boycott?

Hmm, how about this one --

In most cases, if you work on a federal declared holiday most employees qualify for double pay -- especially union employees.

So, if double pay provisions were in the previous union agreements, did the union still demand double pay for the Muslims who will now be working on Labor Day?

And more importantly --how about double pay demanded for all of Tyson's non-Muslim employees who are now forced to work on Labor Day (and give up their traditional 3-day weekend) and instead must take off on the non-federal holiday of Eid-al-Fitr.

If the traditional double pay wasn't negotiated by the union in this case for all the employees working on Labor Day -- especially the non-Muslims -- then why not? Wasn't getting paid double for working a federal holiday probably already in the union's former contracts with Tyson? You mean to say the union would allow that important double-pay provision to be stripped out of a new contract to accomodate one single religious group? Just wonderin' is all.

If Tyson were profitable, it wouldn't have filed for bankruptcy protection. The company is broke.

Tyson chicken is crap. Foster Farms chicken is the best. I always buy their brand.

"The first time Christmas was requested off, it was a religious concession."

Agreed. If this is in response to something I said, I don't see how it relates.

"If the traditional double pay wasn't negotiated by the union in this case for all the employees working on Labor Day -- especially the non-Muslims -- then why not?"

It could be because they preferred EID to be treated as a holiday versus Labor Day. IF that was the case, it was because that's what their rank and filed wanted.

"Wasn't getting paid double for working a federal holiday probably already in the union's former contracts with Tyson? You mean to say the union would allow that important double-pay provision to be stripped out of a new contract to accomodate one single religious group?"

No, not at all. If EID is the new holiday, the pay provisions are the same as Thanksgiving, the 4th of July, or Christmas. I'd imagine some non-Muslims would enjoy getting paid double on what to them is just another Tuesday.

On fox news now. VP of Tyson speaking

"If this is in response to something I said, I don't see how it relates."

No...you don't.

"...This country was founded on Christian-Judaeo principles, beliefs, and honoring those holidays are part of our American tradition and heritage....Posted by CalifChris

More lying liars lying. You think this country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles????

fuck the bullshit attitudes here.

Why don't some shitheads like CC try to buy a Chick-Fil-A on Sunday. Or go to virtually any New York based online camera store and see if they answer their phone from Friday afternoon through Saturday. for the stupid here they are Born again Christian and Jewish run business who operate hours by their religion. Good luck getting a coffee in Utah.

CalifChris you are one racist fuck. I recall you are of Irish descent. Well my ancestors let your white trash potato starved bitches into my country to do the shit work so give a break to the next wave of immigrants.

I can assure you there are very few muslims in the world who would want to add your wrinkled ass to their harem. So lighten up.

"...Well my ancestors let your white trash potato starved bitches into my country to do the shit work so give a break to the next wave of immigrants...Posted by furio"

Yeah, but Chris the Bitch will whine: "But we're all whitey's - we have to stick together! Same with the Pollocks,and the commies and the WOPs and the Frogs..."

Chris is all about the white. God Bless him!

Actually dumpling you are correct - it was not founded on the Christian "religion" but on Christian "values" - and Jewish "values". eg. "love thy neighbor" and the like.

Easter not a Christian holiday? Stolen from the scientologists you say. Since you like to use wiki so much:

"but on Christian(sic) "values""

You did not spell "deist" correctly:

1,000 lashes and a keelhauling.

Sharks must eat, too.

Don't you have a d*ck to suck Dumbling?

Not until he's finished doing Furio.

'"If this is in response to something I said, I don't see how it relates."

No...you don't.'

Danforth - Care to explain how your comment pertains to what I said or are you just going to cower behind sarcasm?

To be honest, I don't think you know either.

Capn, there is some truth in the words you speak aargh!

However

Washington: Church of England (catholic lite)

Jefferson: Unitarian - some say the original form of christianity.

Adams: Unitarian

Franklin:baptised a Presbyterian

Madison:Episcopal (catholic lite)

Hamilton:Episcopal

Yes - "Christian" values capn.

"Care to explain how your comment pertains to what I said "

When Christians first negotiated Christmas off in a Union contract, it was because it was a Christian religious holiday. How was it okay for Christians then, but not Muslims today?

"...Actually dumpling you are correct - it was not founded on the Christian "religion" but on Christian "values" - and Jewish "values". eg. "love thy neighbor" and the like. ..

That is non-sense. Christian Values? B.S. Love Thy Neighbor? Guess the American Indians and the Slaves loved that!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Chrstian principles, including the sacred 'Fifteen' (Crashhhh) Uh Ten Commandments come from Hamurrabi's 100 Codes. And NO SCHOLAR disputes that.

"Easter not a Christian holiday? Stolen from the scientologists you say...."

Hey, Ass-smacker. I said ZOROASTRIANS. Not SCIENTOLIGISTS.

But don't let HISTORY get in the way of your delusion Either.

Jeezues! Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Give the christian a Myth and he sucks the tit out of it!

"...Who claims Thanksgiving as a Christian holiday? Or Halloween (all hallows eve)....

HEY! The claim by CC was that America's Religious Holidays weren't national holidays and being ignored. MY INTENT was to prove that most of the AMERICAN HOLIDAYS were NOT christian.

"...St. Patricks - In the past, Saint Patrick's Day was celebrated only as a religious holiday. It became a public holiday in 1903, by the Bank Holiday (Ireland) Act 1903...Posted by ELCIDCE90

Yes, dildo. THAT'S IN IRELAND! We're talking about AMERICA - if you didn't notice.

Pull your fucking idle hands out of your ass and get an education. AND learn how to read a post.

Stupid is as stupid does, I guess.

Is that in the bible? No? It should be.

From Thomas Jefferson:

The God of the Old Testament -- the God which Christians worship -- Jefferson pronounces "a being of terrific character -- cruel, vindictive, capricious, and unjust" (Works Vol. iv., p. 325).

and:

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" (Works, Vol. iv, p. 365).

In the gospel history of Jesus, Jefferson discovers what he terms "a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstitions, fanaticism, and fabrications" (Works, Vol. iv, p. 325).

THOMAS PAINE:

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church" (Age of Reason).

"Each of these churches shows certain books, which they call revelation, or the word of God. The Jews say that their word of God was given by God to Moses, face to face; the Christians say that their word of God came by divine inspiration; and the Turks say that their word of God, the Koran, was brought by an angel from heaven. Each of these churches accuses the others of unbelief; and, for my own part, I disbelieve them all"

GEORGE WASHINGTON

"When the Congress sat in Philadelphia, President Washington attended the Episcopal church. The rector, Dr. Abercrombie, told me that on the days when the sacrament of the Lord's Supper was to be administered, Washington's custom was to rise just before the ceremony commenced, and walk out of church. This became a subject of remark in the congregation, as setting a bad example. At length the Doctor undertook to speak of it, with a direct allusion to the President. Washington was heard afterwards to remark that this was the first time a clergyman had thus preached to him, and he should henceforth neither trouble the Doctor nor his congregation on such occasions; and ever after that, upon communion days, he 'absented himself altogether from the church."...

HEY! The claim by CC was that America's Religious Holidays weren't national holidays and being ignored.

Where did I say our religious holidays weren't national holidays? Some are -- like Christmas -- and some aren't -- like Labor Day.

Give me my quote before you open your big mouth.

if you meant this part of one of my posts which you quoted --

"...I don't go over to their countries founded on Islamic principles and demand my Christian holidays be observed and honored -- and I wouldn't get it either. I'd probably only get beheaded...

I wasn't referring to Labor Day, stupid. Obviously that has no religious connotation. I was referring to a federal holiday like Christmas when I spoke of "Christian" holidays. duh.

Go back to hating America. Something you and Furio love to do only do all too well -- at least when Furio is not spending most of his time cyberfixated on whether or not my cute, non-wrinkled little butt might be welcomed in some Muslim harem : )

oops, forgot to address my 6:26 p.m. post to DUMBling1

ADAMS:

"...the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries...."

HAMILTON: NOMINALLY CHRISTIAN

"...Because Hamilton's parents were not legally married, the Church of England denied him membership or education in the church school. Instead, he received "individual tutoring"[7] and classes in a private Jewish school..."

MADISON

I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of Religion or against temporal Enjoyments even the most rational and manly than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare their unsatisfactoriness by becoming fervent Advocates in the cause of Christ, and I wish you may give in your Evidence in this way.--

This is the only reference youll see Madison using the word Christ,-- and he wasnt even stating that he believed, rather that he supported someone elses religious fervor. Sorry, but if one is a Trinitarian and Christ central to ones life, such utter lack of mentioning of His name raises suspicions.

"...if you meant this part of one of my posts which you quoted ...I don't go over to their countries founded on Islamic principles and demand my Christian holidays be observed and honored -- and I wouldn't get it either. I'd probably only get beheaded...

Yes that is what I mean. Are you even reading your own posts you turd-licker?

I don't hate America, CC. I am a better American than you. Know Why? I believe in FREEDOM of the People, for the People and BY the people.

You Believe in following cult leaders. Like Christ and GW BUSH.

So know this. When I open my 'BIG MOUTH' it means something real and true.

When you do, you're just being a homophobe, or a racist.

Now slither along, dung-chucker.

"Yes - "Christian" values capn....Posted by ELCIDCE90..."

...But don't let the words and deeds of the Men THEMSELVES stop you from lying to yourself.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Dumpling - why don't you put some quotes from Adams concerning Islam? Maybe Jefferson? You may have heard of the Battle of Tripoli (lookup history of Mamaluke sword). You should be able to find something "real and true" in your research. I'll buy you a coors if you're honest about it.

"I believe in one God, and no more; and I hope for happiness beyond this life.

I believe the equality of man, and I believe that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to make our fellow-creatures happy."

Thomas Paine,
Age of Reason

Okay....do you think Christians working in factories are recognized in Turkey?

We have reached an age that a stupid whiteman thinks it is necessary to please other idiotic beliefs so we can all get along.

Try go apply for a job at CAIR...do you think you will be hired..?

OMG Wake up America...same people are plotting to kill us and we are here handling them jobs and paid holidays..this is just what the doctor ordered

The company can do whatever they want.

That said, if it was Hormel or Honey B, I might raise an eyebrow.

OMG Wake up America...same people are plotting to kill us and we are here handling them jobs and paid holidays..this is just what the doctor ordered

Posted by cmsa1r at 2008-08-05 10:16 PM

OMG!!!

unbiased - Don't assume they only do chicken.

WTF

Why are they here?

They don't like their own country and they're determined not to assimilate into ours. They'll take it over instead. Its already happening in Europe.

What will become of science and progress?

They don't like their own country and they're determined not to assimilate into ours. They'll take it over instead. Its already happening in Europe.

What will become of science and progress?

Posted by nutcase at 2008-08-05 11:29 PM |

1. What percentage of the US population are "they".

2. "What will become of science and progress"?

Are you even almost awake? The Bush admin. is the most anti-science admin since Reagan. Oh...wrong crowd.

As much as I abhor political correctness and all of the kow-towing that goes on at publicly funded schools and universities as well as government agencies, this is different.

These are 2 private entities entering into a mutually-agreed upon contractual change.

They are well within their right to do so, just as any customer service department is within their right to give the option of pressing 1 for espanol.

In this case however, Tyson was both smart and dumb. On the one hand, they agreed to the change in the belief that it would be a morale booster since 58% of its workforce is Muslim. OK, what about the 42% of their employees who in all likelihood don't like seeing Labor Day done away with in favor of a Muslim holiday. Furthermore, what about the public reaction to this? Will Tyson see a downward spike in sales as a result of this? I'd say that it's probable, it's then just a question of how much of a spike they end up seeing.

Betelguese is calling Nutcase a Bush/Reagan syncophant?

That's rich.

Click Nut's user-profile, Bet.

JeffJ-
re: "what about the 42% of their employees who in all likelihood don't like seeing Labor Day done away with in favor of a Muslim holiday."

I don't know. How do the Tyson Mexicans feel about this?

"Will Tyson see a downward spike in sales as a result of this? "

Of course they will, from the same people who want the Ten Commandments in the Courthouse.

JeffJ is being a queen bitch tweener at the mall again. Someone take a picture....yawn.

I don't know. How do the Tyson Mexicans feel about this?

I have no idea.

Of course they will, from the same people who want the Ten Commandments in the Courthouse.

Precisely, which is why I question the business merit of this decision.

It's similar in principle to Wal-Mart - an awful lot of wealthy liberals who can financially afford not to shop there, won't. Ever.

Public opinion can easily affect the bottom line.

JeffJ is being a queen bitch tweener at the mall again. Someone take a picture....yawn.

Channeling Moneywar?

Could someone please translate this?

"Will Tyson see a downward spike in sales as a result of this? "

Could be. There are a lot of ignorant dipshits in this country who might think this is an issue.

There are a lot of ignorant dipshits in this country who might think this is an issue.

Again, this is precisely why I call into question the judgement of Tyson's management.

They should have known this would make the news and should expect a certain backlash.

"Again, this is precisely why I call into question the judgement of Tyson's management. "

In other words, they should kowtow to assholes.

In other words, they should kowtow to assholes.

No, they should kowtow to their bottom line. Obviously, they felt that this was worth the risk of some backlash.

Regardless, if they want to make a change to their vacation calendar to try and please their employees, they are free to do so. Fact is, happy employees tend to be productive employees.

"No, they should kowtow to their bottom line. "

Translation: They should ignore the wishes of their employees. Fuck the employees, kowtow to bigots.

Read my 1214, Null.

Also, quit viewing this, as you seem to do regarding all things, through the prism of everyone who is right-of-center wanting to screw the workers every chance they get.

Companies are in business to make money. Period. The good ones recognize that one of the most effective ways to achieve long-term success is to seek a simbiotic relationship with their employees. Seek win-win scenarios and approach with a give and take attitude.

"through the prism of everyone who is right-of-center wanting to screw the workers every chance they get. "

Yep. It's true. Corporate shills like you elevate profits over people. Every time.

Yep. It's true. Corporate shills like you elevate profits over people. Every time.

You suck ass as a troll.

That was the most predictable response you could have possibly given.

NULL - so I take it that you don't work for the man in the corporate world? That leaves you as what? A bum with a laptop?

Conversely,

Socialistic shills like you demonize profit every time the subject is raised. Like clockwork.

I am the shill?

This coming from a guy who wishes to see the child tax credit eliminated for married couples yet supports welfare - where single moms are PAID to have multiple kids out of wedlock.

You're stupid. Penalizing poor children is not the same as signaling, by phasing out child tax credits, to assholes that their 18 child family will not be subsidized. Moron.

"You suck ass as a troll."

Go suck some corporate cock, dipshit.

don't know. How do the Tyson Mexicans feel about this?

I'll hazard a guess on this one. Tyson could care less what its Mexicans employees think. Tyson has long been on record for hiring mostly all illegals from Mexico. In fact Tyson has previously even sent buses down to Mexico to bring back illegal workers for their plants.

read link below to all the charges against this particular plant:

Is this chicken kosher/halal???

No?

Then what are all those muslims working there for? If they can't produce halal chicken, then what of use is their muslim holiday?

Working their ass off to make non-halal food and then celebrating a muslim holiday makes them hypocrites and all hypocrites burn in Hell, holiday or not.

LOL

America... confused as ever....

Penalizing poor children is not the same as signaling, by phasing out child tax credits, to assholes that their 18 child family will not be subsidized. Moron.

Don't be an idiot.

Penalizing poor children?

Please.

You are financially incenting out-of-wed birth on the one hand while removing financial incentives for married couples to birth and raise children.

Your idiocy, if implemented, would only further accelerate out-of-wed birthrates which would only further exacerbate sociological dysfunctionalism on a macro scale. However, as the Communists correctly identified the traditional family unit as the primary obstacle of their desire to create total dependence on government and thus creating a true "Worker's Paradise", the reasoning behind your duplicity is evident.

Now, go tap your Stalin blow-up doll while simultaneously jamming your Pol Pot dildo up yer arse for a double entendre.

What would be classic is if Tyson promptly eliminated all production of chicken and then produced nothing but pork products.

Tosser -- my Pakistani friend

What is your opinion on this? I'd really like to hear what you have to say, seriously.

In your opinion, do you think this change of holidays is going to be the last request made by these Tyson Muslim employees to accomodate their religion? Or do you think more and more requests to go along with their religion will be asked for -- headscarves, stop five times a day for prayer, and all the rest of it. You would know more about this than all of us put together so what's your take on it?

Tyson does package pork products too although I don't know if this particular group of employees is part of handling the pork products.

"Now, go tap your Stalin blow-up doll while simultaneously jamming your Pol Pot dildo up yer arse for a double entendre. "

Blow me, you corporate butt kisser.

Working their ass off to make non-halal food and then celebrating a muslim holiday makes them hypocrites and all hypocrites burn in Hell, holiday or not.

Then why did Tyson's Muslim employees ask for the day off to coincide with their religious holiday if they agreed to make non-halal food?

I'll look back in later on and see if you had any opinions. I place more faith in your opinion about this than posts from any of us infidels on here. (grin)

The correct term is "corporate ass kisser", idiot.

CC - let's not forget they already get the breaks for prayers and can do so in one of the two prayer rooms purpose built for the moslems in the plant. There are some stories from locals about how much harassment the Mexican immigrants (yes, mostly illegal and female) have had to put up with to the point that they're leaving town. Whatever happened to good undercover investigations by the news media? f'ing lapdogs.

"which would only further exacerbate sociological dysfunctionalism on a macro scale. "

Spoken like the pretentious asshole who hadn't ever read a newspaper until a few years ago, and now pretends to be an "intellectual." LOL.

Null,

All banter aside, I really would like to hear how you reconcile the seeming contradiction that I brought up.

I asked you last week, but I guess you left the site without seeing my question. Actually, you saw my question, corrected me on your position, and I then rephrased my question to accurately reflect your advocacies, but I think you missed my follow-up question.

"which would only further exacerbate sociological dysfunctionalism on a macro scale. "

Where did you copy that from? Your butt buddy Pinochet Mao? LOL.

Nullifidian- you read my mind. Stop that.

Spoken like the pretentious asshole who hadn't ever read a newspaper until a few years ago, and now pretends to be an "intellectual." LOL.

I have been reading National Review and The Limbaugh Letter religiously for over 15 years. Get your facts straight before you open your fat mouth, jerkoff.

" but I think you missed my follow-up question."

I answered your follow up question. Phasing out incentives for people to have large families isn't anywhere near as draconian as penalizing children who have the misfortune to be born into poverty stricken families.

" let's not forget they already get the breaks for prayers "

No they don't. They get breaks from work. Some---say, the Christians---go to the vending machines, some---say, the Muslims---go to pray.

Where did you copy that from? Your butt buddy Pinochet Mao? LOL.

I didn't copy it at all.

The traditional family unit is the bedrock of this society.

Self-reliance and dual-parenting (mom and dad) are the most effective combination for child-rearing - all other factors equal.

Them's my own thoughts on this.

"I have been reading National Review and The Limbaugh Letter religiously for over 15 years."

Religiously? My condolences. As I recall you weren't in the least bit interested in politics until a few years ago. At least, that's what you said a couple of years ago. Were you lying then, or are you lying now?

Phasing out incentives for people to have large families

My recollection was that you wanted to phase out ALL child credits, regardless of family size.

I was multi-tasking at the time so please forgive me if I misunderstood your advocacy.

2fast4you

There are some stories from locals about how much harassment the Mexican immigrants (yes, mostly illegal and female) have had to put up with to the point that they're leaving town.

That doesn't surprise me in the least as we all know Muslims' opinion of the fairer sex. They treat them like dirt and the last thing Muslim men want to do is work with females.

The one thing that continues to puzzle me is why Tyson is hiring refugees at all. Look at the link in my last post. Tyson is notorious for hiring nothing but illegals for years to work in their plants.

I say that about legally hiring refugees because illegals would have no recourse if Tyson worked them overtime, did not give them breaks, etc. because if any of them complained Tyson would just get rid of them and bring in more illegals. Tyson has done it for years.

But if they are now hiring refugees with work permits Tyson would have to abide by the laws for breaks, overtime, etc. There MUST have been some quid pro quo Tyson is getting for hiring the Somali Muslim refugees. Either Tyson may have agreed to do it as part of some previous restitution to the government they are making for hiring all illegals in the past, or Tyson gets paid for every refugee worker they hire. SOMETHING was given to Tyson to make them hire legal workers for a change. I just don't know what, though.

"The traditional family unit"

What is that? How long in human history has this so-called "traditional family unity" been, well, traditional?

Were you lying then, or are you lying now?

Technically, I am lying now.

I thought you'd get a chuckle out of my citing National Review and the Limbaugh letter. My post was jocular.

Your recollection of my comment is largely correct. It's not entirely accurate to say that I wasn't the least bit interested in politics until a few years ago. It is more accurate to say that I was only casually interested in politics until a few years ago. 9-11 kindled a tremendous interest in politics for me.

Sure Dan - I'm sure those breaks just happen to coincide with the calling of adhan. You think they do it through the loudspeakers like pavlov's dogs or they look at the sun? Let's see if the ACLU will take up one of the non-moslem workers case of a hostile work environment and sue Tyson.

What is that? How long in human history has this so-called "traditional family unity" been, well, traditional?

Fair enough question.

Would "neo-traditional" be a more accurate term?

Regardless, it is my contention that in today's modern, Western societies, a family unit consisting of Mom, dad and children is optimal.

2fast4you

I have to run now but hope you got my link on the Nooner a week or so ago when we were talking about what veteran's benefits for education might be available. Remember? I left you a post and a link to a couple of books on VA benefits on the same thread. Hope you saw it.

later!

"But if they are now hiring refugees with work permits Tyson would have to abide by the laws for breaks, overtime, etc."

Refugee status has nothing to do with it. The provisions in the Union contract cover breaks, overtime, etc.

"My recollection was that you wanted to phase out ALL child credits, regardless of family size. "

Definitely I want to phase them out completely. 10 years ought to be enough time for people to realize that if they want to have 18 kids they won't be subsidized by normal people.

And the next step is to limit deductions to 2 children. Want to have 4 children? Fine. Just don't expect me to pay for it.

"I thought you'd get a chuckle out of my citing National Review and the Limbaugh letter. My post was jocular."

Ok. I thought that was bogus.

Definitely I want to phase them out completely. 10 years ought to be enough time for people to realize that if they want to have 18 kids they won't be subsidized by normal people.

And the next step is to limit deductions to 2 children.

OK. How does that jive with your support for welfare?

What if a married couple with say 4 kids is right at the poverty line?

One of the biggest problems with welfare is that it forced dad out of the house.

Yes, CC I did see them - much appreciated. I have to run soon as well.

"Sure Dan - I'm sure those breaks just happen to coincide with the calling of adhan."

I would imagine the devout try to time it as much, and I'd hope the management would be agreeable as long as it didn't effect the work product. Are you against all that?

"You think they do it through the loudspeakers like pavlov's dogs or they look at the sun?"

I'd imagine they look at a clock. Some may even have a watch, or a cell phone with the time on it. Failing that, maybe they could ask a manager. It's really not as hard as you may think.

"Let's see if the ACLU will take up one of the non-moslem workers case of a hostile work environment and sue Tyson."

Do you have any evidence the workplace environment is hostile, or have you come to this conclusion merely because Muslims work there?

Danforth

Just curious. Would the union at Tyson have covered workers who were illegally in the country too? Could they be included as legal members of the union? I wonder in past years how many illegals the union in Tyson had as members and just what -- if anything -- the union got for those workers. It sure wasn't a decent hourly pay wage, that's for sure.

2fast4you

Good, glad you saw them. Okay I'm outta here now!

Null,

One other point:

Many of the social programs that you favor need modest population growth in order to maintain viability. A Ponzi such as SS is a fine example.

Raising children into responsible, productive, tax-paying adults involves tremendous personal sacrifice. As a father of 2, I know this all-too-well.

This is where I have a bit of difficulty with you wanting to eliminate child credits altogether (I disagree with your position regarding rearing 18 children, but I'd prefer to narrow this a bit). If the governmental-programs that you favor require a steady stream of new tax-payers does it not make sense, in the long-run, to ease the burden of child-rearing a bit vis a vis child tax credits? After all, your favored programs can't survive without fresh taxpayers.

"One of the biggest problems with welfare is that it forced dad out of the house. "

And why was that?

It was because conservatives were horrified about welfare and sought to limit it, and the unintentional consequence was creating an incentive for single mother households.

Dan - FYI. If I walked into any workplace where chapels or prayer rooms were on-site I would wonder 1 of 2 things. 1. There are sooo many work related deaths here that a chapel is necessary 2. The company is proselytizing. Either way I'm making a b-line for the door and yes, number 2 would seem somewhat like a hostile work environment to me if it were a publicly traded company and/or not engaged in religious activities.

"...just what -- if anything -- the union got for those workers. "

Most people believe it's all about money. In truth, pay scales account for a few pages of, say, a 20-40 page document, mostly detailing work conditions, allowable sick leave, vacations, grievance redress, and, yes, holidays.

As far as illegals, the hirer has the responsibility to determine status. If the required proof and paperwork was good enough to hoodwink Tyson, I'd bet it was good enough to hoodwink the Union.

Danforth,

I worked at a Union shop for exactly 1 year. The company I worked for had a few Muslim employees, 1 of whom was serious about his prayer time. I remember going into the break room during one of his praryer rituals. He was standing on a funny rug, he had his eyes closed and was making a series of silent gestures.

I had several thoughts flowing through my mind as I witnessed this:

1. It was kind of cool that the company I worked for was able to accommodate this practice and it was simultaneously cool that this employee didn't try to abuse his accomodation.

2. Taking #1 further, the accommodation only went so far. He was given the time and a modicum of space to properly practice his ritual prayers, but that was the extent of the accommodation. He was relegated to the break room with people constantly walking by him and watching his prayer session. Personally, I would have been very self-conscious were I in his shoes. The fact that he was able to focus on his task without any concern for what others thought was actually a testament to his concentration and devotion to his religion.

"chapels or prayer rooms were on-site"

I doubt they''re in the middle of the killing floor. They're probably off, say at the East end of the property.

"and yes, number 2 would seem somewhat like a hostile work environment to me"

But you assumed they're proselytizing. They're not.

" After all, your favored programs can't survive without fresh taxpayers. "

My favored programs? You must be confusing me with a pro-capitalist welfare state liberal. I would like to move beyond that tired old debate between social-democracy and laissez-faire.

And the next step is to limit deductions to 2 children. Want to have 4 children? Fine. Just don't expect me to pay for it.

Except you're not "paying for it".

The person with 4 kids is just forking over less of his income.

That's why its called a "tax break".

In the meantime, someone really has to to subsidize the old age care of selfish, bitter, childless fucks who spent their lifetimes bathed in the "happiness" and self-righteousness that comes with being an anti-natalist, left-wing joke who prefers thumbing his nose at the "bourgeois norms" to the sound of a houseful of children on Christmas morning.

On the same token, that's why I despise pop-culture endorsed faggotry so much.

It was because conservatives were horrified about welfare and sought to limit it, and the unintentional consequence was creating an incentive for single mother households.

I'll do a quick google to ferret out the history behind this claim.

That said, it was those same conservatives who correctly pointed out the abject failures of the system and who managed to push welfare reform through. Of course, Clinton fought this initially, but he ultimately relented when his political advisors convinced him that signing off was critical to his re-election. To this day he takes credit for reforming welfare, and the Republicans have done a shitty job of pointing out that he went along with this kicking and screaming all of the way. All of that said, regardless of his personal motivations it took some political courage for Clinton to buck the party base on this issue.

"Except you're not "paying for it"."

Wrong. Any tax deduction shifts the tax burden to those who aren't benefiting from the same tax benefits. Even an idiot like you ought to realize that.

"In the meantime, someone really has to to subsidize the old age care of selfish, bitter, childless fucks who spent their lifetimes bathed...bla bla bla....

Yeah, whatever. The selfish ones, Pinochet, are actually those who think their breeding should be subsidized.

always the contrarian eh? If there were a prayer room that was specific to ANY religion on-site I would be uncomfortable - even if it were my own religion. I work with a lot of multi-nationals and religion is not something we talk about as it simply creates problems in a already stressful environment that just don't need to be there. Tyson has injected itself into this and appears to be exclusionary by doing so and in the end it will bite them in the ass, as well it should.

My favored programs? You must be confusing me with a pro-capitalist welfare state liberal. I would like to move beyond that tired old debate between social-democracy and laissez-faire.

OK.

Please do so - I am not trying to play 'gotcha', just trying to better understand what I construe to be glaring contraditions within your political, sociological and economic advocacies.

"I'll do a quick google to ferret out the history behind this claim."

Great. Get back to me on that. My information is that compromises were made to gain moderate/conservative support, and one of those compromises were to deny aid to families that had "work capable" healthy males. And that led to an epidemic of single female headed households. But I could be wrong. It happens...

later all - Deadlines loom.

Jeff,

Thanks for the description; I understand now why a majority Muslim workplant would have a prayer room. I bet you would have felt odd if the tables were reversed, and you were the only 'breaker" while all others were praying.

What are the needed accomodations? A prayer rug, I know...anything else?

Most people believe it's all about money. In truth, pay scales account for a few pages of, say, a 20-40 page document, mostly detailing work conditions, allowable sick leave, vacations, grievance redress, and, yes, holidays.

I don't know about that. I know this is anecdotal, but most people I know take a big-picture approach. ALL company offerings are considered to be part of an overall compensation package - pay, benefits, vacation time, personal days, dress code, etc.

It's all fairly variable.

Here's but one example - some companies that occupy large buildings offer company-funded day-care services, on site. A fair number of their employees love the service and utilize it for all it's worth. On the one side, this seems extremely altruistic of said company. However, on the other side, it's the company who may derive ultimate benefit. Most workers place family above work. If a company can offer a free day-care service, they can reduce the number of discretionary days off with the gratitude of a vast number of employees. Any time company policies are flexible to accommodate the diverse needs and personal situations of its workers, said company becomes a desirable place to work. By being a desirable place to work, such a company stacks the deck in its own favor in regards to human capital. Such a company can command more producitivity because its employees don't want to lose what they have. It's a viscious circle, but in a simbioticic way.

In the meantime, someone really has to to subsidize the old age care of selfish, bitter, childless fucks who spent their lifetimes bathed in the "happiness" and self-righteousness that comes with being an anti-natalist, left-wing joke who prefers thumbing his nose at the "bourgeois norms" to the sound of a houseful of children on Christmas morning.

On the same token, that's why I despise pop-culture endorsed faggotry so much.

Damn. That's worth repeating. It's such a poetic, rightist tirade. It's a lot of reactionary horseshit, complete with the obligatory "faggotry" remarks, of course, but some nice phraseology nevertheless.

Oh, and, the saccharine reference to "Christmas morning" no less. How sweet and sentimental. All is needed is a Norman Rockwell painting to complete the picture.

Jeff, I meant the Union contract, not the choice of a where to work. I'm well aware it's a big-picture approach; the bride was a corporate VP for a while at a headhunting firm. Her annual surveys always placed money down about fifth on the list.

And always coming in at #1: They appreciate me at my job.

Except you're not "paying for it". The person with 4 kids is just forking over less of his income. That's why its called a "tax break".

Guess again. The overall tax structure has changed, so the childless person's burden is now a larger slice of the tax pie. He absolutely IS "paying for it".

Danforth,

My answer is limited to this one employee.

He was allowed a certain window of time for prayer and this window was consistent with the break periods allotted for other hourly employees. He couldn't just walk off his post during rigid time-tables. If he was needed during a consumer rush, his break time/prayer time was delayed; just as it was for any other hourly employee.

At the end of the day, he wasn't really treated any differently than his peers. He just chose to pray instead of going outside to smoke a cigarette during his allotted break-time.

None of this was a big deal for any of the involved parties.

On a side note, this guy was an asshole. That said, his unlikeability had nothing to do with his religion or his religious adherence. He was a jerkoff as a matter of personality. In fact, his ability to find comprimise between the dictates of his religion and the practicalities of his employment mitigated some of his other asshole tendencies.

" selfish, bitter, childless fucks"

No one is more selfish than a breeder. You are the fuckers who think you have a god-given right to the world's resources.

Jeff,
"If he was needed during a consumer rush, his break time/prayer time was delayed; just as it was for any other hourly employee. "

As it should be.

"He just chose to pray instead of going outside to smoke a cigarette during his allotted break-time. "

That was my guess earlier, too. It sounds like the work situation went as well as could be hoped. Too bad the guy was a dick.

Danforth,

I didn't actually see the union contract, although I was well aware of its strictures as I had to manage workers within the paramaters of the contract.

In the case of where I worked, I had few bones to pick. For the most part, a reasonable amount of oversight was created so that slackers could be terminated on a documentary basis - I know, that sounds a bit contradictory, except that we had fairly indisputable mechanisms in place to track productivity. Granted, the general process for eliminating dead-weight was overly drawn-out, I did personally witness a few serious boat-anchors get canned and they got very little union support, given their well-documented offenses.

Also, we had what I construed to be a couple of bullshit worker rules. Nevertheless, it wasn't anywhere near as bad as what I thought it would be when I hired in.

"My answer is limited to this one employee."

I was just trying to imaging the logistics of having 700 prayer rugs stretched out in a room.

Not to start a firestorm, but does anyone know why Christians can say a prayer silently in their head, but Muslims must pray on a prayer rug? Christians are taught they can pray/talk-to-God anytime they want. Is it the same in the Islamic faith?

It sounds like the work situation went as well as could be hoped. Too bad the guy was a dick.

Yes, it was too bad. The only thing he wasn't a dick about was making absurd demands regarding his religious adherence. He was very willing to work within company needs and his religious adherence was never an issue during the 1 year that I worked there.

Danforth- they have to point toward mecca 5 times a day and pray.

Annoying, isn't it?

I was just trying to imaging the logistics of having 700 prayer rugs stretched out in a room.

I never really thought of it this way.

You raise an excellent question.

Personally, I'd like to see employers take reasonable steps to accommodate the beliefs and wishes of their employees.

That said, employers ultimately have a responsibility to their bottom line. While I feel that accommodation is good, it can go too far.

"we had what I construed to be a couple of bullshit worker rules."

It's always one jagoff that ruins it for the rest. There are some really silly rules.

Silliest of all, you should see the Actor's Union (AEA) rules: 70-80 pages, and different for every type of theatre: University-connected Theatres will have different rules than Broadway which will have different rules than Off-Broadway which will have different rules than Bus-and-Truck (National Tours), etc, etc. There are probably a dozen or more types, but after working with all of them for so many years, the reason becomes clear: Union rulebooks are nothing more than compendiums of crappy behavior by management. Rules about temperature ranges? Some producer thought 95 in the summer and 35 in the winter was just fine. Flooring requirements? Some fool made dancers do 48hrs a week on concrete. Nothing arises in a vacuum.

Same with the worker rules. Someone in serious need of an attitude adjustment once screwed the pooch, and management got pissed, and put it in the next contract. So now...no more pooches...so to speak.

Danforth,

I recognize that these things don't materialize out of thin air.

That said, unions sometimes go beyond and succeeed in ratifying contractual agreements that legalize shitty productivity.

"they have to point toward mecca 5 times a day and pray.
Annoying, isn't it?"

Let's see if I remember the Catholic Mass times from back in my altar boy days:

Mon-Sat:
6am (fuck-all if you pulled THIS duty for the week!)
7am
8am
Angelus Bells at noon.
Angelus Bells at 6pm.

On Sunday
6am
7am
8am
9am (High Mass)
10:30 am
12:00 noon.
Angelus Bells at 6pm.

So us Christians were ringing the "call to prayer" bell 5 times a day, 7 times on Sunday. Thank God we weren't Muslims, people would've complained.

"contractual agreements that legalize shitty productivity"

Well, only working closely with performing Unions, we always hope for the exact opposite. ;-)

We did have to defend this total asshole once, who worked under the table for 7 years, got canned, and came to us demanding we collect for all the underhanded crap he did. We had to defend him (to a point) and the legal costs delayed a dues reduction I was trying to implement in the local.

Danforth,

If I have shared this with you before, please forgive my redundancy. If not, please enjoy this for what it is.

Both of my wife's parents grew up in religious households. They both decided that not only was religion not-needed, but it was counter-productive for raising a child.

I was raised Catholic and when I proposed to my soon-to-be-wife I requested a Catholic ceremony. She relented under a few conditions:

1. That we utilized the shortened version of the Catholi ceremony - no full mass.

2. She got to pick the church. Thankfully, we were on the same page. She and I attended one of my cousin's weddings at a church she fell in love with from a visual standpoint. First off, I also love that church, but secondly, it is the same church where my parents were married.

What's funny about this is my wife's earliest experiences with the Catholic mass. She has always enjoyed the reading, but she always really enjoyed the priest's translation of said reading into modern times.

Now to the 2 funny parts:

1. She refers to receiving the Eucharist as "snack time".

2. The reading we selected for her dad during our wedding ceremony was from Jeremiah. She desperately wanted her dad to introduce the reading like this: "The following is a reading from the book of Jeremiah. He was a bullfrog, by the way..."

Jeff,

I hadn't heard that before. Thanks...I have to agree with her sensibilities. Although my least favorite part was the priest's translation: the sermon.

'"The following is a reading from the book of Jeremiah. He was a bullfrog, by the way..."

I wish he would have. When the bride & I got married, we had a part where our fathers signed the marriage certificate. Her dad signed, but when it got to my father, he (seriously) took off his glasses and began to check for the fine print. I finally had to remind him it wasn't one of his real estate contracts, so sign it already!

It was in a church, but as you can guess, pretty laid back: the bride's one regret is she refused my request to dance while we were serenaded during the ceremony.

Tosser -- my Pakistani friend
What is your opinion on this?

There is something wrong about this, that's for sure.

On the face of it, there is nothing wrong with celebrating Eid (We all celebrate Eid.. it's like Xmas, only better). But as you know, Eid is a religious holiday, not a secular one. And religious holidays depend on the Lunar calendar. Which means they happen on different days each year.

So substituting Labor Day for Eid isn't quite right or fair to to everyone else. You were right.

It doesn't happen in Pakistan and it shouldn't happen in USA.

In your opinion, do you think this change of holidays is going to be the last request made by these Tyson Muslim employees to accomodate their religion?

What other requests can they make? I can't think of any.

headscarves, stop five times a day for prayer

This doesn't happen in Pakistan and it shouldn't happen in USA.

Nobody stops their business for 5 times a day prayers. LOL

I have heard of that happening Saudi, but then the Saudi are super-rich and can afford to goof off when they like.

And no, nobody can tell anyone else to wear a headscarf. It doesn't happen here in Pakistan and last time I checked USA isn't Saudi or Iran.

If they make such a demand, then America is your country and you have to point out to everyone else that you are being taken for a ride.

Because there are muslim groups out there who will bullshit you that "this is part of our religion" (to take any advantage), even though it isn't and they do nothing like that around here.

For example, people keep talking about "foot baths". WOuld you believe I have NEVER seen a "foot bath"? LOL. It's only in America, it seems.

Then why did Tyson's Muslim employees ask for the day off to coincide with their religious holiday if they agreed to make non-halal food?

Everyone wants an Eid holiday and this is how they got theirs.

If they are making non-halal food, are they eating that same food as their Eid lunch/dinner??? THIS is what I want to know. hahahahahahaha

I think Allah is going to give your Somalis a bitch-slapping.

Muslims' opinion of the fairer sex. They treat them like dirt

Nonsense. I can show you like a million places where men and women work together.

Tosser, could you please have a go at my 2:16? I'd like to know your views. Whenever you can...I'm fading, and won't see it till tomorrow.

Nite, all...thanks for the conversation.

And before I forget, yes, there are common Christian-Muslim graveyards here. In fact, Karachi's oldest coffin makers (for Muslims too) are Christians. LOL

Christians are taught they can pray/talk-to-God anytime they want. Is it the same in the Islamic faith?

Yes, it is.

The praying on the rug is extra.

(the prayers aren't supposed to take more than 5 minutes or so).

If done in a collective manner, they are supposed to create a feeling of commonality. That is something powerful, specially if you work for a union. LOL

You know what God will ask these Somalians?

"There were 700 of you niggers in one place... what THE FUCK stopped you from creating your own Halal-food outlet???"

I don't know how they will reply. LOL

The first thing Pakistani immigrants do when they get to America (for example) is track down Jewish food places where they can get Kosher food (perfectly acceptable to Muslims). Failing that, they head for MacDonalds (they don't know any better..) to get something familiar (they think MacDaonalds is a Pak chain... I haven't told anyone that it ain't so).

The Somalis.. 700 of them.. can work for themselves if they don't like making non-Kosher food. There is no shortage of the demand.

Having an Eid holiday (there are two separate Eids in a year) is a great thing... We have 3 days off.

But the main thing that is causing a disconnect in my mind is:

1. How can you think of eating Eid dinner while making/consuming non-kosher/halal food? This is far more important.

2. Why did they have to get rid of the Labor Day holiday? It isn't fair to others.

Give them extra holidays.. or don't... it is a religious holiday after all and isn't for all Americans... only muslim ones.

What happens to Chinese people working in USA? Do you give them 2 weeks off (most of Asia shuts down for 2 weeks... at least it seems that way) during the Chinese New Year? They take celebrating that more seriously than we take celebrating Eid.

Take away all religious holidays and give 7 floaters to everyone. Make everyone give 2 weeks advance notice to take them. That way you can take holidays when you want not when uncle sam tells you to. Id rather have the day after thanksgiving than a day in september personally.

Oh, NOW I get it! I just read the article in detail (me bad... should have done is sooner).

See here:
-------------
Some workers at a local plant will no longer to be able to take their Labor Day holiday because of religious reasons.

The decision will only apply to workers at the plant who are union members. All other employees at the plant will still have their normal Labor Day holiday.
-----------

This is quite fair. As I understand it, the Muslim workers have agreed to forgo Labor Day in return for an Eid holiday. They will continue working on Labor Day.

Everyone else will have their normal Labor Day holiday as usual.

You guys.... I had thought the sky had fallen. LOL

Having said that, I still wonder if they make Kosher/Halal food at that place?

Hey, for some of you, everytime you see a Tyson logo on a food product (and there are many of them) you'll be thinking about these muslims, then about their rights, then about the other ills they introduce into everywhere they inhabit including hustling in sharia law, then about global terrorism, ad nauseum...

The answer?

Quit whining and stop buying Tyson products!

That's what you can do as an individual.

That's how the free-market system works.

Vote with you hard-earned dollars.

Seriously.

Vote with you hard-earned dollars.
Seriously.

Until one day you end up eating grass. LOL

Seriously.

I wonder if a different Tyson plant (one with a predominately Catholic/Mexican workforce) negotiated a contract where Good Friday was made a paid holiday in lieu of Labor Day, if this would be much of an issue.

For some reason, I suspect it wouldn't make national news.

A few years ago, my company decided to give us Christmas Eve off as a paid holiday at the expense of Presidents Day. This decision made employees happy, it made office/field operations simpler, and just made sense. I'm sure if enough employees asked our boss to change holidays around yet again, he'd consider it. In all likelihood, it wouldn't surprise me if wind up getting Good Friday off as a paid holiday next year (around half the office takes that day off).

I really don't see the problem with a company's management actually working with employees to determine a holiday schedule that appeals to the majority of employees. Personally, all I really care about is Christmas and Thanksgiving. As long as the other holidays are reasonably spread out (I hate the stretch between New Years and Memorial Day), I'm happy.

During the last recession, our company hired an "efficiency expert". One of the few good things that came out of all of it, was that he convinced our boss that it's more profitable for us to simply make a holiday where most people took off anyways, a paid one because of the inherent inefficiency of operating an office when a certain percentage of employees were off. That's why we got Christmas Eve and the Friday after Thanksgiving off too.

"everytime you see a Tyson logo on a food product (and there are many of them) you'll be thinking about these muslims, then about their rights"

And you'll ask yourself, do I want employees in America to exercise their collective bargaining rights, and you'll answer Fuck no, how unAmerican can you get?

"First, they came for the trade Unionists...."

"When Christians first negotiated Christmas off in a Union contract, it was because it was a Christian religious holiday. How was it okay for Christians then, but not Muslims today?"

And I never it wasn't OK so I don't know why you would ask me. My comments on this thread have mostly been saying that the people who are making this a big deal are idiots.

I did say that asking for more religious holidays , foot baths, etc will result in the union having to make concessions in other areas - probably benefits and pay - but this is the reality of negotiations. Companies just don't give away days off. That isn't a criticism. The union must decide what is most important to their membership be it paid days off, pay or free milk and cookies in the morning.

Why in the FUKKK did our government see the need to allow hundreds of thousands of undesireable Somaili refugees into this country? We already have 40 million negroes in this country!

The last thing we need are more negroes from Afreeka, much less muslim negroes that have to be trained how to use a toilet in their assimilation training.

Personally, I'm still seething over Blackhawk down and these primitive savages dragging our Army Rangers naked through the streets of Mogadishu.

"The union must decide what is most important to their membership"

You're mostly right, but it's the other way around. It's the membership which tells the Union. We always keep a running list of member requests, and hold meetings before contracts expire to allow them to voice their concerns. If it's a Unit contract (say, the ABC affiliate), we'll meet with the unit members before negotiations, as well as remain in active contact during the talks. There is ALWAYS a Union rep from the station at the table, along with the Union negotiators, and sometimes other unit members are asked to join. One very effective tactic is having as many members in the negotiating room as possible, especially in a Union with famous faces. Plus, while management feels comfortable being tough to just a rep or two, they don't when it's the whole unit, especially the recognizable anchors.

As a federally recognized holiday honoring labor, the labor union local should not have allowed the issue of whether or not to recognize Labor Day to come up for a vote! Once they did, they had no choice but to accept the will of the majority. After all, isn't that what this country is all about?

Being in the minority sucks doesn't it?

" the labor union local should not have allowed"

Again, backwards. The "local" does NOT dictate to the labor; it's the other way around. Believing this was a surprise to the rank-and-file is naive; they were the ones requesting it in the first place. And I think it's commendable the Union negotiators put the wants of its members ahead of the wants of the Union.

In the meantime, someone really has to to subsidize the old age care of selfish, bitter, childless fucks who spent their lifetimes bathed in the "happiness" and self-righteousness that comes with being an anti-natalist, left-wing joke who prefers thumbing his nose at the "bourgeois norms" to the sound of a houseful of children on Christmas morning.

Posted by Pinche_Mao

Nice one! LOL

"...Dumpling - why don't you put some quotes from Adams concerning Islam? Maybe Jefferson?Posted by 2fast4u.."

What? Not reading my posts? My adams quote IS from the Tripoli treaty. Why not do us all a favor and post the AdmasJefferson quotes for us. No beer neccessary. Just Kudos when you do it.

Plus: Your Quote of Thomas Paine's one god IS NOT ABOUT CHRISTIAN GOD, but a DEIST GOD. He rejects the Jewish ans Christian God. He had no quarter for anyone's GOD used for the basis of running a country!

Don't you get that?

they were the ones requesting it in the first place

It seems odd that a labor union "local" would even allow the recognition of Labor Day to be a negotiable item. To me, it is another instance of just how feeble labor unions have become; that they would bargain away "their day".

"they would bargain away "their day"."

They didn't bargain it "away", they exchanged it for an equal day, and the one preferred by that local's members. Better servicing their wants, than the ego of the Union.

Thinking of lawsuits? Let's check in with the Supreme Court:

"...when the state ... cooperates with religious authorities by adjusting the schedule of public events to sectarian needs, it follows the best of our traditions."

Ganulin v United States, 71 F Supp 2d 824, 836.

Of the corporations, by the corporations, for the corporations...