From the article...
"The Department of Health and Human Services is reviewing a draft regulation that would deny federal funding to any hospital, clinic, health plan or other entity that does not accommodate employees who want to opt out of participating in care that runs counter to their personal convictions, including providing birth-control pills, IUDs and the Plan B emergency contraceptive."
------------------------------
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Fish only on Fridays (served or cooked)?
No pork (served or cooked)??
Vegie meals only (served or cooked)??
Do you get to pick who you treat?...gays?...unwed single mothers or couples?...the right, the left the center???etc...

Desperation from a "lame duck" presidency...
To what end?

Fuck religion. Fire these fuckers if they don't want to do their job.

Many have posted just get another job...will they say the same again?

Surely "health workers" opposing prevention or termination of pregnancies cannot, by any stretch of imagination, be deemed HEALTH workers. Let them wave bloody fetus photos. herm

Hmmm

A Bush administration proposal aimed at protecting health-care workers who object to........

Try it this way and see what happens:

A Bush administration proposal aimed at protecting Union workers who object to.......

I thought health care workers were supposed to accommodate the patients.

This explains why I haven't received my prescriptions since we changed to that nice Christian Science mail carrier.

Seriously, is that what we want? Everyone to get a health provider's veto? Say, Dem doctors refusing to work on Republican patients?

Read the oath, and/or get a new profession.

ZAP...it all depends on what follows " object to......." not who, doesn't it

ZAP...it all depends on what follows " object to......." not who, doesn't it

It should indeed, your point?

This is the flip side of the no-smoking in restaurants/bars issue where the Left argue that employees should not have to work in a toxic environment. Those to the Right on the issue say it is management's choice and if employees don't like the policy then find a job elsewhere.

Here we have the Right calling this a religous freedom issue while those to the Left on the issue say it is management's choice and if employees don't like the policy then find a job elsewhere.

Fuck religion. Fire these fuckers if they don't want to do their job.

Posted by nullifidian

And I guess you think their job is to remove $20 bills from my wallet whenever they want to so they can give rubbers away to some stupid jerk that can afford $200 shoes and a $200 a month cell phone bill.

Sniper,

Do you support a Christian Scientist mailman choosing which prescriptions, if any, he'll deliver?

Pretty soon some #sshole like Snipe, working as a garbage man, will sue his city claiming that garbage is against his religious beliefs, and therefore he should not be forced to pick it up.

Here we have the Right calling this a religous freedom issue while those to the Left on the issue say it is management's choice

Ever Orthodox Jew should get a Saturday job working for a tighty righty.

I'm sure all you religious righties will have no problem paying them for work not done.

Here we have the Right calling this a religous freedom issue
Posted by johnny_hotsauce

So do you feel the same about Muslims who want to wear a head scarf on the job? Or who refuse to carry a passenger in their cab due to "religious freedom".
If your beliefs contradict the duties of your job, then get another job.

providing birth-control pills

BIRTH CONTROL PILLS? What is this, the 12th century? Women have the right to find a hospital where they can get this stuff easily. Even the bible has 3 different standards for when human life begins, and the one that includes conception is in the old testament FFS. (there's also the Leviticus passage that says its when blood enters the body...which is not at conception! Then a standard when the baby draws it's first breath. Salad bar Christians annoy me.)

Anyone that would use their religious beliefs to not do their jobs, and provide necessary and sane health administration, should be fired. PERIOD.

What next, Christian Scientists refusing blood transfusions to patients? Scientologists becoming Psychiatrists so they can refuse depression medication? Wake up and smell the 21st century folks. Just because the medicine involves a womans vagina doesn't give you carte blanch to be an authoritarian douche.

Typical right wing responses:

Deny birth control and then bitch about abortion when they get pregnant - even though they didn't want to

Maybe heart surgeons should be able to refuse life saving surgeries unless "fags" sign a contract promises not to screw other guys, eh?

This is ridiculous. I am all for respecting religious OPINIONS, but it's a two way street! You don't get to pick and choose aspects of a medical profession you signed up for. Does the Hippocratic oath not matter all of a sudden?

Maybe the people who don't want to give out birth control should get together and form their own hospitals. We'll let the free market decide how much business they get.

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone or come across an anti-christian. I'm not, this just upsets me.

Why? The blatant dishonesty and unprofessional behavior of these health workers.

To work in the medical profession you have to go to school and train for YEARS. It's even more for a pharmacist. 6 years in school to get a $100,000(or so job.

You gonna tell me the issue of dispensing birth control pills, and the possible problems they had with this, never came up in 2-6 years of training?

Bullshit.

People who do this keep their mouth shut until they've got their 80-100 thousand dollar a year pharmacy job, then think theycan raise a religious stink later.(when one aspect of their job, that they were too chickenshit to mention before, comes up.)

Fuck em. They knew the score going in. They trained for years to get this. Do the job or quit.

These people disgust me.

This is the flip side of the no-smoking in restaurants/bars issue where the Left argue that employees should not have to work in a toxic environment. Those to the Right on the issue say it is management's choice and if employees don't like the policy then find a job elsewhere.

Cuz birth control pills are exactly like giving strangers cancer?

I have been bitch slapped by this administration and its ultra-right wing roots so many times I find it hard to respond beyond a weary shaking of my head. I almost wish the US would split into 2 countries, and those of us who dislike the ultra left seriously could fight them and establish some sort of centrist country, while the ultra-right country turns into Afghanistan West and we build borders with shoot on sight orders.

No one to answer TFDNIHILIST? The righties are missing from this thread.

I have no problem with denying these people federal funding. As long as we don't make it illegal.
A pharmacist, in his own store, should have every right not to carry and distribute Plan B, or even Trojans or aspirin if he so chooses.

"I have no problem with denying these people federal funding. As long as we don't make it illegal.
A pharmacist, in his own store, should have every right not to carry and distribute Plan B, or even Trojans or aspirin if he so chooses."

My hospital receives federal funding so that the doctors can pray instead of do the operation when you need surgery.(sarcasm) Call it: Operation: Gods Will!!!

Dumb @ss, inbred, motherf#ckers...

A Pharmacist in his own store ALSO took an oath to serve the medical needs of his patient, unbiased and unjudgemental.

If that pharmacist cannot do his job as to the standard we ALL expect in a modern country, he can get his ass the hell out of the medicine business.

When your turn comes to receive medical help and it's denied because your Doctor prescribes PRAYER and NO MEDS...you'll certainly be changing your tunes on this one.

Keep YOUR religion out of MY healthcare. I don't need your mumbo-jumbo schizophrenic fantasies controlling my healthcare.

Get it? Got it? Good!

keep YOUR religion out of MY healthcare. I don't need your mumbo-jumbo schizophrenic fantasies controlling my healthcare.

Get it? Got it? Good!

Posted by DUMPLING1 at 2008-08-03 01:08 AM

Or, quit getting your panties in a bunch and find another Dr./Pharmacist.

Gustogus-
Where am I supposed to find another ordained pharmacist in this area?

"licensed", not ordained. My bad. :)

No clue where your area is Betelg.

But if the idea is to whether I have a pharmacist that is willing to give his patients insulin but not Trojans, or as Dumpling has suggested, no Pharmacist at all. I'll go with option A.

What if it was the opposite---Trojans, but not insulin? And why stop there? What if the pharmacist doesn't believe in AIDS drugs? Can he refuse to carry them? How about heart medicine?

And just a guess, but I'm betting you've never lived in a small town. "Option B" may be no option at all.

Gustogus-
re: But if the idea is to whether I have a pharmacist that is willing to give his patients insulin but not Trojans, or as Dumpling has suggested, no Pharmacist at all. I'll go with option A.

What if your local licensed pharmacist - the only one within a hundred miles - is a Christian Scientist who has decided to take a stand, and you need insulin?

What if it was the opposite---Trojans, but not insulin? And why stop there? What if the pharmacist doesn't believe in AIDS drugs? Can he refuse to carry them? How about heart medicine?

And just a guess, but I'm betting you've never lived in a small town. "Option B" may be no option at all.

Posted by Danforth at 2008-08-03 01:50 AM

Well if he carries trojans, but not insulin, I'm more likely to call him the 7/11, not the pharmacist.

And you're wrong, I grew up in one of the smaller towns in Louisiana. A 1 stop sign, closest pharmacist was 30 miles away in Marksville, small town.

And apparently you missed the Option A, B thing. As option B may be just that. Have you ever lived in a small town Danforth? The town Pharmacist in many of these small dying towns is likely to be some 65 year old guy who simply keeps the store open to give himself something to do.

If we're gonna play the speculation game, who says forcing him to carry plan B won't just force him to retire instead? Now you have a small town full of elderly folks with no pharmacist because some city folk decided they want condoms.

Look, I have no problems with a Christian Pharmacist refusing to carry Plan B in the same way I have no problem with a Muslim truck driver refusing to haul pigs or a Jewish bookstore owner refusing to sell copies of Mein Kampf, it isn't back of the bus civil rights despite how you try to frame it.

What if your local licensed pharmacist - the only one within a hundred miles - is a Christian Scientist who has decided to take a stand, and you need insulin?

Posted by BetelG at 2008-08-03 01:51 AM

you keep framing this argument under the assumption its either
Pharmacist that sells the stuff or
Pharmacist that doesn't sell the stuff

Why won't you recognize an option 3...
No pharmacist at all.

Gustogus-
What about a Christian Scientist refusing to dispense insulin, or a pharmacist at K-mart (maybe the only pharmacist in town) refusing to dispense the legal birth control that is there in the pharmacy?

Now you have a small town full of elderly folks with no pharmacist because some city folk decided they want condoms.

A small town full of people doesn't have ONE person that would love to make pharmacy pay? Someone else will take over the job. Necessity is the mother of invention.

Look, I have no problems with a Christian Pharmacist refusing to carry Plan B in the same way I have no problem with a Muslim truck driver refusing to haul pigs or a Jewish bookstore owner refusing to sell copies of Mein Kampf,

Big difference. The lack of pigs and books isn't going to get a woman pregnant.

"licensed", not ordained. My bad. :)

Posted by BetelG at 2008-08-03 01:42 AM | Reply | Flag:

That about covers it. I am not needed on this thread. Toodles, folks.

"Look, I have no problems with a Christian Pharmacist refusing to carry Plan B"

But that logic doesn't carry, unless the Christian Scientist mailman gets to decide which prescriptions he'll deliver, if any. Where does it end?

"it isn't back of the bus civil rights despite how you try to frame it."

It is if you're the one needing insulin, and someone else is judging whether he'll fill the prescription or not.

Gustogus-
What about a Christian Scientist refusing to dispense insulin, or a pharmacist at K-mart (maybe the only pharmacist in town) refusing to dispense the legal birth control that is there in the pharmacy?

Posted by BetelG at 2008-08-03 02:08 AM

Thats a business decision to be made by Kmart. They are more then able to fire the pharmacist for not doing the job as that company defines it.

re: "a Muslim truck driver refusing to haul pigs or a Jewish bookstore owner refusing to sell copies of Mein Kampf"

If they are owner-operators, they can do what they will. If they were employees of mine, I'd fire their asses in a fartbeat, and they are employees of mine if they receive federal funding.

What about pharmacists refusing to give insulin to obese people?

Hey, they got diabetes from bein' fat slobs, right? Fuck 'em.

Or not.

But that logic doesn't carry, unless the Christian Scientist mailman gets to decide which prescriptions he'll deliver, if any. Where does it end?

"it isn't back of the bus civil rights despite how you try to frame it."

It is if you're the one needing insulin, and someone else is judging whether he'll fill the prescription or not.

Posted by Danforth at 2008-08-03 02:10 AM

Christian Scientist mailman isn't his own boss. He's an employee hired to do a job.

I am speaking simply pharmacists who own there own business, as is the case in most small towns. If you'll look back you'll note in my very first post I said "in his own store".

And once again, we're playing the speculation game. You keep going out into left field, bringing up pharmacists who refuse to sell insulin (I've yet to see a case of that btw), yet noone has answered my much more likely scenario of a small town pharmacist closing up shop indefinitely.

You would rather deny old people medicine so you can stand on principle?

And i'd like to point out something that isn't mentioned in these threads too often.

Some women are prescribed birth control for other issues. Got that, fundies? Some woman aren't "sluts" or "killing babies"...they have hormone problems.

But they wouldn't get a pass from a LICENSED pharmacist refusing to prescribe the MEDICINE that a DOCTOR prescribed to them, if the store didn't carry those drugs, would they?

Look, I can see RX people not wanting to give out meds that weren't FDA approved. Or something controversial that may or may not be traken off the market.(lipitor)

But this is birth control for gods sake. Only a total moron with no understanding of birthing issues would think that BC kills a baby. The cognitive dissonance involved with a medical professional getting the education to know better, but allowing their faith to dictate others lives, is staggering.

yet noone has answered my much more likely scenario of a small town pharmacist closing up shop indefinitely.

Yes, I did. An opening like that would be filled. Fast.

If they are owner-operators, they can do what they will. If they were employees of mine, I'd fire their asses in a fartbeat, and they are employees of mine if they receive federal funding.

Posted by BetelG at 2008-08-03 02:14 AM

Betel, I stated in my very own post that I have no problems denying these people federal funding.

Gustogus-
Should they receive federal funding?

Gusto-
re: Betel, I stated in my very own post that I have no problems denying these people federal funding.

I missed it. My bad...I'll look for it.

Yes, I did. An opening like that would be filled. Fast.

Posted by Alexandrite at 2008-08-03 02:20 AM

No, it wouldn't. Have you ever lived in a small town Alex?

Yes, I have.

And invariably, some cousin from another town would come in, or bring someone in if the old guy retired. In small towns everyone knows everyone else, and are aware of most of their relatives elsewhere.

What do you think these people do when the pharmacist dies? Just say "well, fuck it. I don't need insulin anymore."

Get a clue.

No, wait...you're right, gustogus. These small town folk better hope their pharmacist is a vampire.

Because if he isn't immortal they're all gonna die. There's no possible way they could replace him!

Gustogus-
I'm pleased to say that we are both opposed to the Bush Admin. on this one. Again, I'm sorry I missed your very clear statement to that effect.

Yes, I have.

And invariably, some cousin from another town would come in, or bring someone in if the old guy retired. In small towns everyone knows everyone else, and are aware of most of their relatives elsewhere.

What do you think these people do when the pharmacist dies? Just say "well, fuck it. I don't need insulin anymore."

Get a clue.

Posted by Alexandrite at 2008-08-03 02:28 AM

No, they find the next closest store and get it from there.

I've seen it happen. There are dying rural towns all across this country. I grew up in one (Moreauville, LA) and I've worked in many across Missouri. These are towns with decrepit abandoned downtowns. 1 bank, 1 old grocery store, and if they're lucky, 1 pharmacist. Your ignorance is showing.

I find it amazing how your willing to "trust the market" when it comes to these places finding a new pharmacist, yet not enough for a competing pharmacist to run the Christian guy out of business.

for a competing pharmacist to run the Christian guy out of business.

Not gonna happen in a very conservative small town. You're aware of this.

Not gonna happen in a very conservative small town. You're aware of this.

Posted by Alexandrite at 2008-08-03 02:45 AM

Well then there ya have it, the town can't support 2 pharmacist, and if the current one leaves theres no guarantee they'll get another.

On the list of things I'm willing to force someone to do against there own moral ideals, providing birth control just doesn't make the cut.

I don't think we should fund them, I personally won't use their services, but I'm simply not willing to use the strong arm of the government to force the issue.

Gustogus-
I'm pleased to say that we are both opposed to the Bush Admin. on this one. Again, I'm sorry I missed your very clear statement to that effect.

Posted by BetelG at 2008-08-03 02:33 AM |

Sorry Betel, just saw this :)

I'd guess we're opposed to the Bush Administration on a lot of issues. This is just a drop in the bucket...

I'm willing to force someone to do against there own moral ideals, providing birth control just doesn't make the cut.

So small town women that don't want to get pregnant, or have hormone problems are just screwed?

So small town women that don't want to get pregnant, or have hormone problems are just screwed?

Posted by Alexandrite at 2008-08-03 03:01 AM

No, they do exactly what they would do if there was no pharmacist. They find another pharmacist.

If its a small town, and they don't want to get pregnant, they buy condoms at the gas station thats just outside of town. Or if its a medical issue they talk with the local pharmacist and ask him to adjust his policy due to the reasoning behind their problem. If he won't, they get there prescriptions from somewhere else. If that won't happen they ask there doctor to get them some mail order. Or they ask for a longer prescription and make a special trip to buy a larger supply.

They adapt, just like lots of Americans do when they come across a problem.

Christian Scientist mailman isn't his own boss. He's an employee hired to do a job.

The issue is the denial of Federal funds to the entire entity should that entity require its employees to dispense anything that runs counter to their "personal convictions."

The ramifications are stunning. I don't think they thought this through.

In Wisconsin we had a similar case where a pharmacist refused to fill a prescription for a twenty-something single woman on the grounds that it violated his faiths teaching on premarital sex. The woman had to drive an hour away to have the prescription filled at another pharmacy. The incident was reported to the state board responsible for regulating pharmacists. The reluctant pharmacist was determined to have acted incorrectly and I believed, fined. Sanctioning the ability to refuse medical or health procedures on the basis of personal convictions or for faith based reasons, undermines our health care system.

"...Or, quit getting your panties in a bunch and find another Dr./Pharmacist....Posted by GustoGus"

When your time comes, you will be whistling another tune.

Why can't these christians just open up magical healing centers. There is NO NEED for them to even distribute medicines to people. Haven't you seen the studies of the 'power of prayer'???

God can heal them all. Diabetes, Lupus, CFS, MS and Cancer...even AIDS. Powerof Prayer. No meds.

Otherwise, Shut up and sell the goddam meds. I haven't paid through the nose in taxes for the past 40 years to watch my ability to get meds when I need them upsurped by a bunch of fucking idiots.

Christians should have their license removed from them if they think that they can control the MEDS of other people's neccessity.

It is pugnacious.

Don't want to abide by the rules? Get another fucking career!

From the article...
The Department of Health and Human Services is reviewing a draft regulation that would deny federal funding to any hospital, clinic, health plan or OTHER ENTITY that does not accommodate employees who want to opt out of participating in care that runs counter to their personal convictions, including providing birth-control pills, IUDs and the Plan B emergency contraceptive.
------------------------------
-

Do not know if many private pharmacists get federal funding, but which OTHER ENTITY...

Will a university doing research lose funding?
A womens health clinic
An AIDS clinic
A local free clinic
A pharmaceuticals manufacturer
NIH
Breast Cancer, Leukemia,...etc Societies/Groups

Another post on DR sites a women who infiltrated gun groups...what's to stop anti ----- (fill the blank) future employees from infiltrating groups they have problems with then causing havoc?

"but which OTHER ENTITY..."

Well, if it's the postal service, expect no deliveries of prescriptions from Christian Science mailmen.

'Anti-Abortion' (Anti-Choice) people want to be able to deny birth control?

Shouldn't birth control be praised by the anti-choice crowd? By it's very definition, it helps prevent unwanted pregnancies and therefore, abortions.

Seems rather self-defeating.

'Anti-Abortion' (Anti-Choice) people want to be able to deny birth control?

Shouldn't birth control be praised by the anti-choice crowd? By it's very definition, it helps prevent unwanted pregnancies and therefore, abortions.

Seems rather self-defeating.

Posted by COMMONSENSE at 2008-08-04 02:13 AM

It all stems from the same religious hocus pocus. God said sumtin bad about spillin some guys seed on the ground, and poof..Birth control is bad.

None of it makes any real sense from a non-religious perspective...

its a fine and annoying line when i comes towards pharmacy. as a pharmacist you have every right to refuse treatment to someone no matter what the doctor prescribed if it is within your medical judgment that the medication is incorrect for this patient or harmful.

doctors are not infallible thats why there are other parts of the health care system for checks and balances. however, plan b (which is birth control, not an abortion pill) and other conventional birth control rarely ever falls in that category. your their to save their life or to prevent an adverse event, not to save their soul. but thats just my professional opinion on the matter.

at the pharmacy i work at it, i have a midnight shift pharmacist who is a Christian fundie and does not dispense the morning after pill. so my way around it is to have a manager acting under the pharmacist in charge to sell the pill. which is so stupid, this fundie pharmacist of mine doesn't get that she is still the pharmacist in charge, whether she sells the drug or not.

i'm starting to think that with many of my pharmacy peers that they refuse to sell or dispense whatever not because of religious conviction, but because they can. some people just love to enforce their will on others, disguising it as god's will.

Maybe these people are in the wrong profession if they can't provide the standard of care as described by the credentialing organizations who provided them with their licenses?

maybe they should get a job waiting tables?

No god I know disapproves of morning after pills for teen-agers, any more than any god I know wants you to wear a purple necktie on Thursdays. Surely your midnight fundie farmacist understands that her god wants her in the sack at that time of night. herm

There is a broad, broad line between the conscientious objection of soldiers drafted into the military, and the conscientious objection of pharmacists who hold a position for which they have chosen to study and train.

As a Christian, I find this nonsense repugnant (not to mention scripturally unsound; someone mentioned above the passages in which the Old Testament weighs the mother's life against her unborn child's); as a woman, I can't help but see it as an Administration's first step in the complete legal redefinition of abortion.

And THAT is some scary stuff.

And how do you think "abortion" will be redefined, RBL? herm

Did you read the whole article, Herm? A brief quote:

"There is also deep concern that the rule could have far-reaching, but less obvious, implications. Because of its wide scope and because it would -- apparently for the first time -- define abortion in a federal regulation as anything that affects a fertilized egg, the regulation could raise questions about a broad spectrum of scientific research and care, critics say."

This is the same draft, I believe, that was discussed on these boards a week or so ago - from the angle of its capacity to redefine abortion. The whole grounds for the pharmacists' objection is the belief that abortion is any interference with a fertilised egg - including preventing its attachment to the womb. Thus the objection to a lot of birth control, and to IUDs.

That, RBL, is about one degree from equal rights for sperm. Let's not have any genocide of the unconceived. herm

Thus the objection to a lot of birth control, and to IUDs.

Posted by RainbowBlight

This weekend I heard about a catholic church refusing to baptize a friend's in vitro baby because the monsignor knew that other eggs were discarded in the process. Essentially the same arguement.

If people want to be lunatics and hold funerals for the bedsheets everytime a 13 year old has a wet dream they should be free to do so. But if they pick a job that entails filling perscriptions, they should fill the fucking perscriptions. If people can't use common sense in choosing a career paths that his their own problem.

If people can't use common sense in choosing a career paths that his their own problem.

Posted by Sully

Agreed.

"That, RBL, is about one degree from equal rights for sperm. Let's not have any genocide of the unconceived."

Amen. And I don't doubt that there are nutjobs out there who'd love to criminalize miscarriage, too.

Miscarriages are a crime perpetrated by god.

What court has jurisdiction?

" And I don't doubt that there are nutjobs out there who'd love to criminalize miscarriage, too."

Phill Kline of Kansas, for one.

"What if it was the opposite---Trojans, but not insulin?"

Posted by Danforth

I'm almost positive that you don't need a resistered Pharmacist to get trojans.

But you do to get insulin. The point was what if the pharmacist refuses insulin.

Not quick on the uptake, are you?

A pharmacist cannot refuse to give you insulin. It is a life saving medicine.

You are talking apples and raod apples.

A pharmacist cannot refuse to give you insulin. It is a life saving medicine.

You are talking apples and raod apples.

Posted by FreddyK at 2008-08-04 01:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

And you know this to be an absolute certainty how? Part of the discussion has been that some religious sects don't believe in ANY medications. What is to stop some Fred Phelpser from saying, "NO you may not have insulin, it's against the word of Almight Dog!"

Your primary reason for blindly blathering is to defend your fucking Prez'nit who talks to God, proving once again the mental deficiencies of rightards such as yourself.

"And you know this to be an absolute certainty how?"

Posted by Reagan58

Because if they refused and the person died then they would get sued moron.

Sorry but I have no religious dog in this hunt. Your worn sterotypes make you look dumber than and redneck I've met.

Not if Bush and his merry band of criminals get their way. Religion will become the newest defense against all manner of madness. Don't want to dispense AIDS medication, no problem. Don't want to dispense prenatal vitamins, no problem. Cuz Dog told me it was wrong and just like that, not lawsuit, no punishment.

I don't know what your religion is nor do I care. Your rock solid defense of the Bushites disgusts me.

"Don't want to dispense AIDS medication, no problem."

Posted by Reagan58

Bush has spen more to dispense AIDS meds than anyone in history. Bad example!

Vitamins, youare joking right?

Bush cut off funding for every clinic in Africa that mentioned abortion. So many women contracted AIDS by being raped it was a necessity.

Compassionate Conservatism is an oxymoron

"Compassionate Conservatism is an oxymoron"

Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Murder your own children. The Liberal definition of birth control.

"Compassionate Conservatism" is an oxymoron

Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Murder your own children. The Liberal definition of birth control.

Posted by FreddyK

"Fuck 'em once they're born" - The Compassionate Conservative view.

I don't see anyone forcing anyone to have an abortion. And you act as though if it were illegal abortion would end? Ha ha!!! We'd just go back to back alley abortions with disasterous results.

And you think "liberals" are the only ones having abortions? Guess again

Roe v Wade.

Physician's medical judgment.

So if the physician makes a medical judgment, the patient can seek out another opinion if they disagree with their physician.

However, the patient cannot demand a prescription or operation from the Physician if it runs contrary to the physician's medical judgment.

"birth-control pills, IUDs and the Plan B emergency contraceptive." If it requires a physician's medical judgment, then go find someone who's judgment agrees with your request.

If I can prove that my medical judgment is the reason for non-distribution of what you seek - then go to someone else for what you want.

Medical malpractice exists when a physician provides unnecessary treatment and prescriptions.

"And you think "liberals" are the only ones having abortions? Guess again"

Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Liberals are the ones going around bragging about it! "Oh look how many abortions I've had, wow isn't freedom great!'

FREDDY

Let's see you post ONE "Liberal going around bragging about it".

Come on. I dare you.

(You're full of shit, but I'd rather have you find that out for yourself)

This weekend I heard about a catholic church refusing to baptize a friend's in vitro baby because the monsignor knew that other eggs were discarded in the process

You'll have to provide a link for that....I have personally witnessed the baptism of babies that it was a fact known by the priest that the baby was conceived via in vitro.

they can't refuse something like that.

Let's see you post ONE "Liberal going around bragging about it".

Posted by AMERICANUNITY

I don't need to prove anything to a nitwit like you!

"I don't need to prove anything to a nitwit like you!"

Translation: I got caught talking out my ass, and have no proof whatsoever.

FREDDY

No. You can just post all the bullshit you feel like and then not back it up.

How Karl Rove of you.....

"Translation: I got caught talking out my ass, and have no proof whatsoever."

Dear dipwad #1 and #2: here is just one example of many available. You can look for some more yourself.

Now you can shut up!

"here is just one example"

You never saw the segment, did you? She wasn't bragging, she was using it as a cautionary tale.

You lose again.

Murder your own children. The Liberal definition of birth control.

Posted by FreddyK at 2008-08-04 03:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Riiiiight. Because we all know that right-wing women never get abortions.

The best part is that you want people to be able to refuse condoms and birth-control pills all while screaming about the abortion rate.

Don't you think that protected sex will help alleviate unwanted pregnancies and the spread of STD's, especially HIV?....or is this what the right wants so they can say "see, look at the abortion rate skyrocketing...something must be done!!!"

there have been two times where as a pharmacist i did not dispense "plan b"

1. sex occurred greater than 72 hours ago

2. the patient stated that she was already currently on birth control

which brings me to the only problem that i have with "plan b"

its the marketing by the corporation, its somewhat irresponsible, many of the patients (more like most) do not actually know that its birth control, just a larger dose. they do not know that it works almost exactly just like traditional birth control by stopping implantation. there is no fetus involved, just a sperm and an egg, hypothetically if they are even there.

its been my experience that most people think that its this magic abortion pill and that unprotected sex could be fixed. marketing it as a bandage instead of the heavy dose of hormones it really is. take a look instead the next cosmo or people mag you see. the ad is very irresponsible compared to the amount of detail that other drug ads have to provide.

like i mentioned in an earlier post, a pharmacist could refuse to dispense whatever they see fit if it is within their medical judgment (not religious conviction according to the oath) that it could be harmful or detrimental to the patient. however, the law is much more vague.

just tonight i did not fill heart medication to an 82 year old guy, fungal medication to a 26 year old, and a nasal steroid to a 54 year old woman. am i an asshole for doing so...

the first case was of a doctor not writing out the script correctly meaning there could have been more than one interpretation and i am certain that the dose written is going to harm the patient, patient two is a known alcoholic with liver problems visiting an ER doc who most likely doesn't know the patient history all too well, i'm going to recommend a fungal cream instead. and with patient 3, well, it was a $40 copay and it was prescribed to treat miner symptoms of allergic rhinitis. she didn't need to waste her money or deal with the side effects just because a drug rep bought her doctor lunch earlier, obviously i left that decision up to her, she chose to forgo the spray.