Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Saturday, July 26, 2008

An AP analysis by its chief military reporter and Baghdad bureau chief claims the U.S. is winning the war in Iraq. "Limited, sometimes sharp fighting and periodic terrorist bombings in Iraq are likely to continue, possibly for years," writers Robert Burns and Robert H. Reid state. "But the Iraqi government and the U.S. now are able to shift focus from mainly combat to mainly building the fragile beginnings of peace."

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ssssshhhhhh......

This is bad news for Obama, the dems, and the blame America first crowd.

The Dems were counting on us losing. I am glad they were wrong.

Stop talking about who was right about what. Hey, Obama was right we should not have gone in there. McCain was right, once we made the mess, it took the surge to begin cleaning it up. So they were both wrong and they were both right.

Now that things seem to be settling down, lets figure out how to get out of there and leave them to run their own country.

And McCain just endorsed Obama's 16 month draw down. By the way, regardless, this has nothing to do on investigating how we got into Iraq in the first place. Every rightwinger knows that and that leads me to believe how unpatriotic it is to look the other way on whether or not we were lied into war. the ends NEVER justifies the means

I went out to pizza Hut ,Burger King, Taco Bell and Subway, every day if I wanted. Also good steaks ,Lobster and King Crab(Thank You Guys on the Deadliest catch)on a regular basis.

Wasnt so bad on the Big Bases.

Yeaaaah! Were winning .

And McCain just endorsed Obama's 16 month draw down...

Posted by AngelofTRUTH at 2008-07-26 01:10 PM

How can you call yourself angeloftruth and lie like that?

Anyone that wants to know what McCain really said can just watch the video.

hotlineblog.nationaljournal.co
m

If the U.S. is winning Iraq then maybe they can declare victory (Missicon Accomplished II?) and this time go home, immediately.

Mato

I did see the video and you right wingers now are SHAMLESS LIARS. Shall I remind you what Bush said in 2007 and McCain said in 2004 about leaving Iraq if the Iraqi's said leave??? Now youl all are saying Bush and Mccain never said we would leave??? Do not lecture anyone on the TRUTH. You bastards have redefined the term Shameless, pathologocal liars and the American people see it and know it!!!
I just have to remmber that after November you shameless no-account rightwingers will finally be irrelavant.

If you watched that video and somehow in your warped mind think he was endorsing Obama's plan you have a serious comprehension issue.

you guys won the fight but will never win the war, it was a failed policy to begin with: illegal and did not accomplish anything except bankrupt your country financially and morally.

the only thing more juvenile than talking about losing or winning this war is spouting inane comments about the left hoping for defeat.

dumbass is what dumbass does, you guys never miss an opportunity to demonstrate the limited scope of your view.

If you watched that video and somehow in your warped mind think he was endorsing Obama's plan you have a serious comprehension issue.


No worse than your comprehension problem as it pertains to Bush in 2007 and McCain in 2004.

Why aren't we leaving then? Hmmm... And what about the former Iraq PM saying it isn't a lasting peace because there has been no real political change? We need to get out now. I don't care whether we won. McCain was wrong in supporting this farce in the first place, PERIOD.

coreyadam: BINGO!!!!!!

And as I said before, if a democrat paid off the iraqi militias the way the republicans have in this situation to secure the "peace", those same republif#ckers(including the c#cksuckers posting above) would be screaming:

APPEASEMENT!!!!!!!!!!


you guys won the fight but will never win the war, it was a failed policy to begin with: illegal and did not accomplish anything except bankrupt your country financially and morally.


the only thing more juvenile than talking about losing or winning this war is spouting inane comments about the left hoping for defeat.


dumbass is what dumbass does, you guys never miss an opportunity to demonstrate the limited scope of your view.

Posted by panchovilla at 2008-07-26 01:28 PM


After the 9/11 attacks President Bush warned the world,"Your either with us or against us."
But because of Washingtons persistent refusal to acknowledge exactly who the terrorists are and why we are fighting, that line in the sand becomes more obscured.
During Condoliza Rices confirmation hearings she was grilled about Iraq,wmd's and how long our troops will be there.But no one then or since has asked a more important question. When and how will American foreign policy be adjusted to defeat the goals,not just the tactics of our jihad friends?

Anybody else think it's ironic that someone who calls themself panchovilla is talking about illegal policies?

"putzovilla"- Never has an intellegent thing to say,plenty of insults. Pancho villa was a criminal,low life piece of shit,rapist,murderer,and plunderer.


This is bad news for Obama, the dems, and the blame America first crowd.

Posted by fwthom at 2008


actually its not.......JUST LIKE RUSH PREDICTED>....
dems and obama are in the process of taking credit for the success...

and PANCHO..........you wont be able to change history on this one like the left does with nam and other issues.
the left has been ABOUT NOTHING BUT DEFEAT.........

Now lets hear the Robin Hood bullshit begin.

We've turned the corner, the insurgency is kaput, the surge is working, we'll be greeted as liberators, the troops will be showered with flowers and chocolates, the war will only cost $50 billion, The bullshit from the Chimptards never ends.

Anybody else think it's ironic that someone who calls themself panchovilla is talking about illegal policies?

Irony is your post.

Dubya's folly is fast approaching the Vietnam War in terms of cost and he did it half the time. Mission accomplished!

The total cost of the Iraq war is approaching the Vietnam War's expense, a congressional report estimates, while spending for military operations after 9/11 has exceeded it.

The new report by the Congressional Research Service estimates the U.S. has spent $648 billion on Iraq war operations, putting it in range with the $686 billion, in 2008 dollars, spent on the Vietnam War, the second most expensive war behind World War II. Since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the U.S. has doled out almost $860 billion for military operations in Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere around the world.


hosted.ap.org

After the 9/11 attacks President Bush warned the world,"Your either with us or against us."
But because of Washingtons persistent refusal to acknowledge exactly who the terrorists are and why we are fighting, that line in the sand becomes more obscured.
During Condoliza Rices confirmation hearings she was grilled about Iraq,wmd's and how long our troops will be there.But no one then or since has asked a more important question. When and how will American foreign policy be adjusted to defeat the goals,not just the tactics of our jihad friends?


We've turned the corner, the insurgency is kaput, the surge is working, we'll be greeted as liberators, the troops will be showered with flowers and chocolates, the war will only cost $50 billion, The bullshit from the Chimptards never ends.

Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2008


we have turned a big corner andmore........the shia are back and the insurgency is crippled hopefully for good.......FOR NOW>.......we were greeted like liberators in the beginning and we probably screwed that up somehow......I guess its the first time in world history that something like that has happened...
there werent many flowers or choclate that the iraqis could have gotten ahold of.....remember the reign of a little cutesy guy named saddaam.....
and we have always said it would take a long time and that translates into money........

but it would help the debate if just a couple of you defeatists would even one little bit reconize the success in that country.

we were greeted like liberators in the beginning and we probably screwed that up somehow.

BL2

You know damn well how.

Gen. Jay Garner's advice:

-Do NOT disband the Iraqi Army
-Guard the munition dumps and factories
-Do NOT deBaathify the goverhment but for high level Baathists
-Accept help from the Iraqi military - offers of as many MP's as we needed to protect assets.

So, what happened? Washington disregarded everything he suggested that would have prevented chaos, fired him, replaced him with Bremmer, and gave Bremmer a "Medal of Freedom' for fucking up so badly.

This was all after they disregarded Zinni and Shinseki who said we should have a minimum of 500,000 troops going in.

This war was unnecessary and should never have been fought. That's the question to deal with, not "winninng" (define, please) or "losing" (ditto).

but doc.........you cant go back and change it now. we have to deal withwhat Really happened.........and what really happened was one of the worst dictators and human slime inthe worlds history was captured and executed........
and all signs point towards an iraq that will be an ally in the war on terror, and not a host country for the enemy.........

This is bad news for Obama, the dems, and the blame America first crowd.

How is it bad news for Dems? If the war's won, what's the reason for McCain's candidacy? Four more years of Bush economic policies?

Meanwhile the threats against Iran are getting stronger and more ominous.

all signs point towards an iraq that will be an ally in the war on terror, and not a host country for the enemy.

Maybe in Bushlover world. Iraq and Iran are allies. The enemy would be the US.

But no one then or since has asked a more important question. When and how will American foreign policy be adjusted to defeat the goals,not just the tactics of our jihad friends?

Posted by controlledpairs at 2008-07-26 01:51 PM | Reply |


good point. see? even you can see further than your usually stunted views and ad hominem attacks. yet you can't stop your reflex to dive back into the juvenile insult slinging and chest thumping...almost rivaling your buddy elcid who can't even respond to the post with any point at all. pathetic.
_____

and PANCHO..........you wont be able to change history on this one like the left does with nam and other issues.
the left has been ABOUT NOTHING BUT DEFEAT.........

Posted by bushlovertwo at 2008-07-26 02:05 PM | Reply |

then crusty the clown stumbles in with more inane inarticulate bullshit. the left is about waging war with the right enemy, the right way.. not some bullshit personal vendetta or oil grab. the worse part is how easily you guys fall lock step in support of a failed policy, even when it goes against the welfare of your country.


y'all deserve to be beaten with a stupid stick...repeatedly.

RCADE: Kudos

These right wing moonbats I think simply just may be stupid people. Those who are incapable of critical thought are not even worth having a discussion with. How anyone could post "This is bad news for Dems..." is simply beyond response. Have you noticed that when a right winger posts , they fail to list a single fact to support their claim?

This past week may go down as the week that Barack Obama met the treshold as a player on the international scene. Now, let me list the reasons why so that I will not be accused of making a statement without facts:

1) Malaki govt endorces the 16 month draw down
2) Malaki's VP also endoresed it
3) Bush admin admits they need to talk to Iranians
4) Bush admin and Gen Petreas state that more troops are needed in Afghanistan.
5) Media exposes both Bush in 2007 and Mccain in 2004 staing CLEARLY that if Iraqi's say leave we would have too.

All of these FACTS are things Obama have staed over the past year. If Mccain's basis on running is Iraq, he has been undercut.

Wow, even now the liberal AP news outlet believes the war has shifted, and the Iraqi people and US forces are finally winning the war. This progress would never have came about if Obama and company decided in 2006, to pull out of Iraq and their opposition to a surge in 2007. Obama said the experts told him, the surge would never work, Iraq is a lost cause. Yea, right! He basically still has the same policy of pulling out of Iraq.

Speaking of which, there is so much good news coming from the success of Iraq, there is talk about pulling out in 1 to 2 years which is more practical than pulling out right away. Too many variables in Iraq, so making sure Iraq can take care of itself is vital. Great job to the men and women who risked their lives over there in Iraq, you done an excellent job while many (including Obama) thought this progress was impractical!

As i said. The bushies paid off the militias to stop killing our troops. This appeasement is nothing more than a political calculation designed by the @sshole rightwing so that if the demos get into power and STOP paying off the juntas over there, the rightwing c#cksuckers can claim that the demos f#cked up the war when those very same "allies" start killing our soldiers again. That's all this is. More war pig sh#t...

It's useless talking about Iraq or the state of affairs at home with FoxNews freaks.

The facts are always at odds with the rhetoric.

MikeWarrior: suggest you read the below clip, also from AP


When it comes to Iraq, the surge is a great success, right? Well, according to Ayad Allawi, Iraq's former prime minister, that depends on what you mean by "success".

In a briefing before members of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs yesterday, Allawi answered questions from members of he subcommittee on international organizations, human rights, and oversight. When asked by Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), the subcommittee's ranking member, for Allawi's "assessment of of what's come of the surge," Allawi all but said, not much.

"It's useless talking about Iraq or the state of affairs at home with FoxNews freaks.

The facts are always at odds with the rhetoric."
------------------------------
---------------------
"...never permit the government to discern the relationship between cause and effect. Government invariably rules out the possibility that the structure of the public sector itself is to blame for the problem, whether that problem is terrorism or recession." -- Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.

Who gives a shit if we're winning. This isn't like winning WW II?!?! Yeah, we "won" Vietnam too cause the NV had over 1 million casualties. So what's the point? We should not have invaded Iraq in the first place! Too much fucking media and too much information. And the Bush Admin criticizes Berlusconi for running the media in Italy?!?!

"Who gives a shit if we're winning. This isn't like winning WW II?!?! Yeah, we "won" Vietnam too cause the NV had over 1 million casualties. So what's the point? We should not have invaded Iraq in the first place! Too much fucking media and too much information. And the Bush Admin criticizes Berlusconi for running the media in Italy?!?!"

Massive debt. Lots of dead people. Banks going under. Dollar = toilet paper. People losing their houses. Oil prices up.

Now tell me who won eh...

Not to worry! We won in Afghanistan and pushed the Taliban out. Haliburton passed out Flowers and Chocolates(tm)! Hearts and Minds, Stayed the course. Hearts and Minds!

What? The Taliban are back? With a vengeance having reclaimed major territory?

Anyone really think Iraq will be differen?

Let's learn from history; Republicans have made careers out of lying to the American People just before major elections. It's their only strategy this year. Who do we get this info from? How do we know what we know about Iraq? From Generals. From people on the payroll of Blackwater and Haliburton. From Lying Liars and the Lying Lies they tell.

So...Sure we are winning this month. Probably will be winning next month too.

But come November, after the election and regardless who wins, they won't be singing THAT TUNE any more. No it'll be back to 24/7 war-profiteering-insurgents- resurging the re-surge - and still no WMD'S in sight.

Wanna bet some Flowers and Chocolate on that?

First of all there is not definition of victory. There is no land to take, no leader to topple, no army to overthrow. In reality we have lost if you do the history. Years ago we backed Iraq under Saddam a Sunni against Iran the Shia. Today we have a Shia govt in Iraq so how in anyones wildest dreams do we think we have won? Regarding the "surge" the only reason it is working is because AL Sadr has told his troops to stand down. They will rise up again when we leave and you can take that to the bank. The only victory in Bush and McCains eyes is "staying" in Iraq.

Ah--so it is AP who can tell who is wins and who is loses. I wonder if AP is the one who can surrender to us. If so, I know where their home offices are located.

Ah--so it is AP who can tell who is wins and who is loses.

But if the AP said we were losing, you'd be all over it like a chicken on a June bug, bOoB.

Wow, even now the liberal AP news outlet believes the war has shifted,

AP Board of Directors
. . .
Rupert Murdoch
Chairman and chief executive officer
News Corp.
New York, NY
. . .
www.ap.org

The decline of the AP's neutrality:

www.politico.com

How can you lose a one-sided "oil war" war?

Well why the hell wouldn't the U.S. win such a "one sided" war! The Bush Govt instigated this illegal war and met no military defense or resistance at all in Iraq,while the US Military bombed that country to smithereens!

Also just what does the Bush Regime define as "winning" in Iraq? In the second world war Germany and Japan surrendered and that was considered by the Allies as "winning the war"! But who is left there in Iraq to surrender to the Americans? Saddam Hussein and his government are long gone and were no threat or danger,whatsoever to the US Military invasion in the first place.In fact the US Military controls the entire country of Iraq and does so without any significant threats.
As has been stated and verified before,most of the Iraq resistance including the majority of the suicide bombings that continue in Iraq are being orchestrated and perpetrated by the CIA and the US Military to justify their continued occupation of that "oil rich" country!!!

Thanks YAV for the heads up on Rupert. Once again though, the so called 'liberal media lie' resounds in the mind of the kool-aid drinking republicans on this site.

YA HEAR THAT YOU BOOBS: Rupert Murdoch is Chairman and CEO of AP!

And you all know he owns FOX NEWS, Right?

Riiiiight

Now I know you can do basic math. The question is, can you learn from it and repeat it...over and over again to yourselves!

No? Okay. Clinton got a Blow Job.

Rupert Murdoch is Chairman and CEO of AP!

Don't go that far. He's an AP board member. He's chairman and ceo of NewsCorp.

His appointment to the AP is recent, but not without effect. The AP is becoming almost as embarassing as the WSJ these days. I still chuckle over the "Bush is like Batman" WSJ story.

Actually, it should read:

"AP Analysis: U.S. Winning Illegal Iraq War"

Any happy talk that comes of out of whatever is happening in Iraq makes BushCo breathe a little sigh of relief. It (hopefully) helps make their crime a little more palatable to the general public. It's a bit like a rapist taking comfort in the fact that his rape victim chose an abortion instead of having the baby and sticking the rapist with child support.

good point. see? even you can see further than your usually stunted views and ad hominem attacks. yet you can't stop your reflex to dive back into the juvenile insult slinging and chest thumping...almost rivaling your buddy elcid who can't even respond to the post with any point at all

Posted by panchovilla at 2008-07-26 02:59 PM | Reply | Flag

What an ego.You should try some humility.
A hypocrite you are.

You realize this is a entertainment website? Where sarcasm and jokes and fighting are common?

Thats what happens when people try to force thier views down othere throats.

Albert

Winning the war is just the first bit of bad news for Obama and the dems who were rooting for U.S. defeat. They will hear another shoe drop when gas is $2.00 a gallon by election day.

Great news, if its true!

Maybe the right can agree to bring the rest of the troops home in 16 months.

Can we all now agree on this?

After we win the war, we will keep the peace by stationing troops in Iraq for the next 100 years.

I can't believe people are calling what is left in iraq a war.

It is an occupation, nothing more and there is nothing to winning in an occupation.

Like the old saying goes... You can win anything if you throw enough money at it. But anyone with a brian knows the real truth. WE AIN"T WINNIN SHIT !!!

"Winning" a war that should never have been fought is nothing to brag about. The US in Messopotamia is both a disgrace and disaster.

Johnny poopy-pants theme of appealing to red Neck Americans with a theme of "We're Winners and we're going to win in Iraq..and I know how to win wars"... when there is nothing to win is like telling a cronic gambler he can win at craps and blackjack so don't give up.

"But anyone with a brian knows the real truth. WE AIN"T WINNIN SHIT !!!"

Is that REALLY what your brian is telling you? Tell brian he's way out of touch.

"Wednesday, July 23, 2008

Over half of American voters (51%) now believe the United States and its allies are winning the war on terror, the highest figure recorded in nearly four years by Rasmussen Reports in a nationwide survey.

Only 16% now think the terrorists are on top, while 27% view it as a stalemate."


52% say Bringing Troops Home More Important than Winning the War
~ Rasmussen Reports in a nationwide survey


Ex-Insurgents Want More Money from U.S.

~www.drudge.com

It should have been called the Splurge.

"Over half of American voters (51%) now believe the United States and its allies are winning the war on terror, the highest figure recorded in nearly four years by Rasmussen Reports in a nationwide survey."

WTF do the American people know about how (or even whether) the GWOT is being conducted?

That's like asking them whether they believe in God, or if the Moon is made of cheese, or whether there's intelligent life anywhere in the universe, or how many pixies can dance on the head of a pin. They simply do not have the information to reach an intelligent conclusion. (Ironically, reminiscent of the way Bush decided to launch his war-disaster against Iraq.)

FF ZAP

I'd have put an exclamation point on there, but I'm leaving it off as it's a sadly true at the same time.

"They simply do not have the information to reach an intelligent conclusion."

If you're referring to the Obamaniacs, I couldn't agree more.

Posted by jestgettinalong at 2008-07-27 09:17 AM

Here are some worksheets for improving your reading comprehension: www.rhlschool.com

Over half of American voters (51%) now believe the United States and its allies are winning the war on terror, the highest figure recorded in nearly four years by Rasmussen Reports in a nationwide survey.

Only 16% now think the terrorists are on top, while 27% view it as a stalemate."

Posted by jestgettinalong at 2008-07-27 09:02 AM

Who ever thought the terrorists were on top !!! The 9-11 attacks on this country were pulled of by 30 Extremists fundamentalists financed by Osama Bin Laden and a hand full of Extremists in Afganistan. The attacks were successful because George W. Bush and his inept administration were asleep at the swicth and incompetent assholes.


The Terrorists are on top... BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS !!!

"Here are some worksheets for improving your reading comprehension:"

Now, now Doc...it's much too early on a Sunday morning to start with the insults. Did Rcade pee in your cereal, or what?
Besides, even opponents of the war are admitting the surge is working. Why does that upset you?

From the NYT:
"But before long, the more honest among the surge opponents will concede that Bush, that supposed dolt, actually got one right. Some brave souls might even concede that if the U.S. had withdrawn in the depths of the chaos, the world would be in worse shape today.

Life is complicated. The reason we have democracy is that no one side is right all the time. The only people who are dangerous are those who cant admit, even to themselves, that obvious fact."


From Lanny Davis:
"The surge did, in fact, lead to a reduction of violence, confirmed by media on the ground as well as our military leaders.

It did allow the Shi'ite government of Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki in the last several months to show leadership by joining, if not leading, the military effort to clean out of Basra the masked Mahdi Army controlled by the anti-U.S. Shi'ite extremist cleric Moqtada al-Sadr and in the Sadr City section of Baghdad he claimed to control.

This willingness by the Shi'ite-dominated Maliki government to move against the Sadr Shi'ite extremists won crucial credibility for the government among many Sunni leaders and Sunnis on the streets, who joined together with Shi'ites to turn against the al Qaeda in Iraq and other Taliban-like extremists.

These are facts, not arguments.

I think there are a lot of anti-war Democrats who, like me, are impressed by these facts and who now see a moral obligation, after all the carnage and destruction wrought by our military intervention, not just to pick up and leave without looking over our shoulders."


I can find more if you're too busy to look. Aware of your handicap, I'm always willing to help you any way I can, Doc.


"The Terrorists are on top... BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS !!!" Posted by USATRUEANDBLUE7

My, my, my....you are such an angry little boy for being only seven years old. Do they have you on Ritalin? Have they forgotten your meds this morning?

Posted by jestgettinalong at 2008-07-27 09:40 AM

Of course, you've ducked the issue yet again. You're simply unable and incapable of explaining how that percentage of the voters you cited have access to the information required to make an intelligent judgment about the success of "the war on terror."

I extend my sympathies to you for laboring under the double disability of neither being able to comprehend what you read nor engage in critical thought associated with the information before you.

Come back when you've honed those skills. Who knows? You might even make some sense by then.

These are facts, not arguments.

I think there are a lot of anti-war Democrats who, like me, are impressed by these facts and who now see a moral obligation, after all the carnage and destruction wrought by our military intervention, not just to pick up and leave without looking over our shoulders."

Posted by jestgettinalong at 2008-07-27 09:40 AM

You Mean like our moral obligation to South Vietnam when we picked up and left and allowed a reported 1,000,000 to 1,500,000 South Vietnameze citizens sympathetic to the US cause to be tortured and slaughtered ? A fact little reported and swept under the rug by our government and news agencies.

So go run your little moral obligation argument that we have an obligation to the Iraqis on some other
person with a limited thinking process.

"and allowed a reported 1,000,000 to 1,500,000 South Vietnameze citizens sympathetic to the US cause to be tortured and slaughtered"

You have a credible link for that statement?

McCain said it would be a short war, easy, we'd be out in a short time, and it wouldn't cost much. He didn't question the level of troops going in.

Therefore it's very disingenuous of him to take any credit for an after the fact 'surge' to quell what was at that time a 4 year old chaotic mess. Why? Because of the lack of listening to commanders in the first place. Where was his voice then?

This is like trying to take credit for calling the EMS truck after a car wreck that could have been avoided had he never let the drunk get behind the wheel in the first place.

Where was McCain's loud voice as a 'military expert' after Zinni and Shinseki testified before the Senate about the need for a minimum force of 500,000 troops to avoid what eventually happened? Where was his voice when Gen. Jay Garner was fired for adamantly calling on Washington NOT to disband the Iraqi Army - which STILL is not up to the readiness level it was in 2003? When all of Garner's other suggestions were promptly disregarded - much to the detriment of the U.S. and the Iraqis - and he was fired and replaced by Bremmer?

Where was McCain's voice calling for Bremmer and Rumsfeld's heads?

McCain is a Johnny Come Lately. He should have been the loudest voice in Congress questioning every aspect from Rumsfeld's judgment through the years Iraq descended into chaos?

"You're simply unable and incapable of explaining how that percentage of the voters you cited have access to the information required to make an intelligent judgment about the success of "the war on terror."

Easy, DOC...the same way you have access to the information that has caused YOU to judge that they're all wrong.

"I extend my sympathies to you for laboring under the double disability of neither being able to comprehend what you read nor engage in critical thought associated with the information before you."

I realize you think you're probably the smartest fellow to ever shit between a pair of run-down heels, but you AIN'T. DeadPud is! Fact is, you're just full of shit...a turd in every pocket!

I realize you think you're probably the smartest fellow to ever shit between a pair of run-down heels, but you AIN'T. DeadPud is!

FF

Here... Is this good enough for you....Or do you want an actual body count of the number of deaths to caused by the US pullout from Vietnam ? This article refers to millions but its probably a left wing piece of crap.


www.latimes.com

"You Mean like our moral obligation to South Vietnam when we picked up and left and allowed a reported 1,000,000 to 1,500,000 South Vietnameze citizens sympathetic to the US cause to be tortured and slaughtered ? A fact little reported and swept under the rug by our government and news agencies."

Yeah...like that one.

"So go run your little moral obligation argument that we have an obligation to the Iraqis on some other person with a limited thinking process."

That was a quote from Lanny Davis, not me. You know Lanny Davis...right?


Who gives a shit? I check the box scores for who won the game, not who's winning in the second quarter. Tell me if they are coming home. Then I'll know we've "won". You can tell me how great things are, but we are still there and haven't left yet. So let me know when that happens and we can talk about who won.

"the same way you have access to the information that has caused YOU to judge that they're all wrong."

You poor guy, you really don't realize that the absence of proof is not proof of anything other than an absence of proof, do you?

"Fact is, you're just full of shit"

For questioning you? Sure, that's the gold standard for determining who is and who is not full of shit.

Here's the platter. Yes, that's your ass, smack in the middle of it. Now, pick it up, screw it back on, waddle off, and don't bother trying to play with the adults until you are one.

"Here... Is this good enough for you...."

A quote from George Bush, the guy who thinks Nelson Mandela's dead?

ROTLMAO

Make that ROTFLMAO

I met with one of our clients recently who's brother is a 3-Star General that reports directly to Petraeus. He had some very interesting things to say about how Iraq has gone. Mostly he didn't think we have failed militarily there other than where we have asked our soldiers to do things like fix up a power plant or a school or a road. That part of it has been a huge cluster according to him.

"Here... Is this good enough for you....Or do you want an actual body count of the number of deaths to caused by the US pullout from Vietnam ? This article refers to millions but its probably a left wing piece of crap."

I think you have me confused with someone else. I made my first landing in Vietnam in 1958. I was back multiple times and flew from the carriers, Bon Homme Richard, Lexington and lastly from the Kearsarge. I landed at Cam Rahn after my last mission there in Oct. 1971. I retired in 1975. I have always felt ashamed of our abandonment of those people. Here's just another example of what it did to our image:

www.iran-press-service.com



"and allowed a reported 1,000,000 to 1,500,000 South Vietnameze citizens sympathetic to the US cause to be tortured and slaughtered"

That's not what your link says. Perhaps you don't know geography and that conflict all that well.

"Here's the platter. Yes, that's your ass, smack in the middle of it. Now, pick it up, screw it back on, waddle off, and don't bother trying to play with the adults until you are one."

LOL...I guess Goatman, or Rob,....or whoever it was...was correct when he said you are the way you are because you have a little weenie. I bet you have to take Viagra to keep from peeing on your shoes...don't you?

"Here... Is this good enough for you...."

A quote from George Bush, the guy who thinks Nelson Mandela's dead?

ROTLMAO

What George W. Bush thinks or says about Fucking anything is irrelevent to this discussion because he is a proven ignorant asshole.


The topic and debate is :

Why do we have a moral obligation to Iraq to protect them against genocide when we had none to Vietnam when millions were slaughtered by the likes of Paul Pot and the NVA Communists when we the US picked up from Vietnam and ran like coward dogs with our tails between our legs?


Get with the discussion man !!

"Get with the discussion man !!"

My question to you dealt with you providing a credible link for a statement you made.
You were not able to do so.
Get with the discussion, man!

"because you have a little weenie. I bet you have to take Viagra to keep from peeing on your shoes...don't you?"

No.
Why, do you?
Can't comprehend what you read (a processing disability).
Lack the ability to reach logical conclusions based upon the information at hand (yet another processing disability).
And now you're focusing on the size of poster's penises.
Proof that it's not safe to make 'shine out of kudzu.

"US Winning Iraq War"

In 279 B.C., after the Battle of Asculum, Plutarch tells us, "The armies separated; and, it is said, [King]Pyrrhus [of Eprius] replied to one that gave him joy of his victory that one more such victory would utterly undo him."

"Can't comprehend what you read (a processing disability)."

Actually, Doc, I comprehend it well enough. YOUR problem is that you won't accept ANYTHING unless it's peer-reviewed by Zatoitchy, analyzed in a video by Beefalo_Boob, or corroborated by DailyKos. Sometimes, Doc, just sometimes, the 51% are correct and YOU are wrong. Difficult to accept, I know, but true nonetheless.

Posted by jestgettinalong at 2008-07-27 11:01 AM

Ho boy, moving into CAPITALIZATION TERRITORY, egads, zounds, and forsooth! Serious stuff, that.

LOL

Sorry, but all you've done here today is demonstrate a truly pathetic inability to deal with the point I raised about your poll dancing, opting instead to go trolling.

Trying to get you to get your cognitive abilities up to speed is as boring and fundamentally pointless as playing tiddlywinks with kidiwinks.

Face it, you're obviously about two ticks above being a moron.

"Face it, you're obviously about two ticks above being a moron."

Oh...I thought I was only ONE tick above you.

Posted by jestgettinalong at 2008-07-27 11:17 AM

Well, see, that's where your wrong . . . again.

Like I said, playing tiddlywinks with kidiwinks.

Enjoy your $10 billion a month, blood, gore, and down the rabbit hole war.

I guess since the Left Wingers of the AP have finally decided we're "winning in Iraq" (I guess something positive actually DID come out of Obama's trip), there'll no longer be the whiny screechings of diaper pissing Leftists calling for the right to define the term.

Winning. We stay... THEY go home. It really is as simple as that.

Now what is Obama's strategy for Iraq? Withdrawl. Ooops. So much for "winning". I guess McCain was right. Obama STILL wants to surrender...

All this over polls? Know what I think, Doc? I think you have this need to pooh-pooh any poll you deem "bad news." I don't put tons of stock in polls, but I thought it pretty remarkable that Lanny Davis and others are singing a different tune now. Observe:

"These are facts, not arguments."

"FACTS"..so says Lanny Davis. And more...

"I think there are a lot of anti-war Democrats who, like me, are impressed by these facts and who now see a moral obligation, after all the carnage and destruction wrought by our military intervention, not just to pick up and leave without looking over our shoulders."

I was more impressed with this and other sources than with the polls suggesting most believe the surge is working. Consequently, I'm one who believes the surge is working. You may disagree, but the info upon which you base your disagreement is no more valid than the info others have.

Now what is Obama's strategy for Iraq? Withdrawl. Ooops. So much for "winning". I guess McCain was right. Obama STILL wants to surrender...

Posted by Farmer_John

Others who called for us to withdraw our forces:

-George Bush
-John McCain
-Maliki
-Allawi
-The Iraq Study Group (who said we should have our combat forces out by 2008)

Better they catch up later than never

You DID hear Bush sent an envoy to Iran too, didn't ya?

Of course, we would achieve a GREAT VICTORY if we simply followed the terrorists to whatever sanctuary they retreated into and killed them all, but the Leftists demand that America only achieve pyrrhic victories... cuz wars aren't perfect and nice and therefore Americans don't "deserve" real victories.

After all, we're just a bunch of "imperialists" no matter how many Saddamesque dictators we depose in making the world safe for democracy.

"You DID hear Bush sent an envoy to Iran too, didn't ya?"

Just so ya' know, AU, not liking Obama doesn't mean we like Bush or McCain.

Others who called for us to withdraw our forces

LOL! There's a difference between withdrawing a couple of combat brigades after victory has been achieved and putting our tails between our legs and getting out entirely in the face of a strong enemy (which is Obama proposed).

AU,

Your behind...

"Obama says conditions to dictate final Iraq force"
news.yahoo.com

There will be no total withdrawal from Iraq.

The policy from each candidate is the same, as Bush.

Any distinctions you make are of no difference.....

Unless Obama would like to clarify yesterday's comments.

and putting our tails between our legs and getting out entirely in the face of a strong enemy (which is Obama proposed).

Posted by Farmer_John

Farmer John. Wow. You are so ill informed I'm sorry to tell you.

Obama wants to pull our combat forces out of Iraq. Training and support with an expeditionary and strike force (in case there's trouble) is his plan once the combat forces are out. We would keep a large contingent nearby in Kuwait and the UAE to back them up if needed.

I know my details. Man, they're so easy to find if you want to.

You DID hear Bush sent an envoy to Iran too, didn't ya?

Imagine the conversation.

Envoy: "If you continue to develop Nukes, we will obliterate you."

Ahmadinejad: "We are in compliance with international agreements and inspections to develop nuclear energy. We have no plans to develop nuclear weapons."

Since Iran can't prove a negative, they will be obliterated.

Obama on the surge.

The idiot would surrender because he thought the "political debate at home" required the president to surrender... ???

Obama wants to pull our combat forces out of Iraq. Obama wants to pull our combat forces out of Iraq.

Oh for Chris sakes; how gullible and naive. This is election season. I haven't seen a candidate yet who followed through on a promise.

The idiot would surrender because he thought the "political debate at home" required the president to surrender... ???

Posted by Farmer_John at 2008-07-27 11:54 AM |

How do you surrender an occupation?

LMFAO

Obama wants to pull our combat forces out of Iraq. Training and support with an expeditionary and strike force (in case there's trouble) is his plan once the combat forces are out. We would keep a large contingent nearby in Kuwait and the UAE to back them up if needed.

LOL! You forget that he recommended we begin THAT process in 2007 pre-surge. Had we done so, Osama bin Laden would have been calling in the Mayflower Movers by now to shift his Operational HQ from Pakistan to Bagdad and forcing EVEN the non-combattant American forces to "re-deploy" out of Iraq.

Obama's like a broken clock. Right now, but wrong when he originally called for withdrawl.

How do you surrender an occupation?

I thought there was no al Qaeda forces or terrorists in Iraq till we got there...

So which is it? You can't have it BOTH ways. LOL!

You forget that he recommended we begin THAT process in 2007 pre-surge

That was also the recommendation of the Iraq Study Group. At that time Iraq was getting into a civil war. Our combat forces did not need to be in the middle of that.

Hey, I know you're an ultra partisan, but at that time 'stay the course' was the word of the day from the WH - and things were just getting worse every day. It was ONLY when the Dems took Congress in 2006 that Bush became willing to try something different - starting with a new Secretary of Defense. He'd held onto Rumsfeld, who's policies were disasterous, like all get out. The 2006 Election was the ONLY thing that made George try something new.

You know all of that but you won't admit it.

My point was McCain should have been asking all kinds of uncomfortable questions before we went and all during the years and years of death and destruction with a failed plan.

One Trillion Fucking Dollars and 5000 US Soldiers lives pissed away by a fucking idiot President who still can't get it thru his fucking peanut sized brain that the real enemy is in Pakistan and Afganistan and always has been but because Iraq has so much Oil we put 170,000 Troops there supporting something called a surge and bullshitting the American People were there protecting a bunch of Fanatical Religious Morons who couldn't give a flying fuck less whether all of us here in America were dead.

And thru it all...you have people who would still suck the shit out of Bushes ass they love the cocksucker so much !!!

Farmer John

You're a broken record.

Bad thing for you is the rest of us remember how that song went

You do? You sure don't sound like you understand what happened.

That was also the recommendation of the Iraq Study Group.

LOL! The ISG? Since when did a single Democrat stand by THAT deal? You won Congress in 2006 by renegging on ISG bi-partisanship and calling for complete surrender.

Yellow dogs. You're not called 'YELLOW' for nothing.

What an ego.You should try some humility.
A hypocrite you are.

You realize this is a entertainment website? Where sarcasm and jokes and fighting are common?

Thats what happens when people try to force thier views down othere throats.

Posted by controlledpairs at 2008-07-26 10:30 PM | Reply |

Translation: i have nothing to counter your point with please stop making me look like the complete ass that i am. fucking buffoon.

the real enemy is in Pakistan and Afganistan and always has been...

That may be partially true, but the real path to VICTORY has always been by making ALLIES and establishing BASES in the REGION from which support for American goals can be achieved.

The USSR tried to fight a war in Afghanistan in 1980 and LOST it. Why did they lose it? They had no SUPPORT for their efforts in the region.

Fortunally for us, there are TWO COMPETING BRANDS of terrorism in the Middle East, one Sunni and one Shi'a. And we would NEVER be able to convince the Sunni brand to support us UNLESS something was done to take on the Shi'a form.

Albert

Posted by controlledpairs at 2008-07-26 10:31 PM | Reply |

FF. I'll give you that one.

That "civil war" in Iraq didn't break out by accident. The Sunni-Shi'a split lies at the root Middle Eastern politics. And right now, they're in an "arms race" for control of the Islamic world. And America needs to be in a position to keep the counter-balances in place that will prevent a how war for domination from breaking out.

Welcome to the post-Cold War world.

erratum - "hot" for "how" above.

And America needs to be in a position to keep the counter-balances in place that will prevent a how war for domination from breaking out.

Oh sure, an attack on Iran will prevent a war from breaking out. Here's the lineup: Israel and the US against Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Russia and China. Farmer John is nuts.

"All this over polls? Know what I think, Doc?"

No. Actually, here's some bad news for you: Given your track record here, I don't really much care, either.

"I think you have this need to pooh-pooh any poll you deem "bad news.""

No, but I question polls that question people who can't possibly have any idea about the universe of facts that pertain to a subject -- other than impressions they've gleaned from MSM and military-political spinmeisters.

"I don't put tons of stock in polls, but I thought it pretty remarkable that Lanny Davis and others are singing a different tune now. Observe: "These are facts, not arguments." "FACTS"..so says Lanny Davis."

Lanny Davis. He knows no more about any of this than the rest of us.

"I'm one who believes the surge is working. You may disagree, but the info upon which you base your disagreement is no more valid than the info others have."

So, essentially, a matter of faith.

Thanks for clearing that up.

An attack on Iran? We no longer need to attack Iran. Why? Because IRAQ, not IRAN, lies at the center of the Shi'a religion, and the American supporting clerics like al-Sistani in Najaf have more prestige and authority than the "heretics" in Qom.

Invading Iraq served a dual purpose. Like when you capture Rome, you also capture Vatican City and the Pope.

And religion IS the way of getting rid of the radical Khomeini inspired heretics controlling the Iranian government, not arms. Veleyat e-fiqh is a Shi'a heresy. Remove the authority of its' proponents, and you get rid of theocracy in Iran.

Farmer
The only purpose the attack on Iraq served was to further Israel's interests to weed out a competing nation. That's why an attack on Iran is very likely.

Since you claim to have read "The Creature From Jekyll Island" you should know that the purpose of the Federal Reserve is to finance wars without directly taxing the populace. The federal government is broke. One more wall will take us over the edge.

Get off this ego trip about trying to dominate the ME. Military occupation and support of Israel has accomplished nothing but make enemies at great cost to this country. The US does not have the resources to further the ambitions of ruthless evil people without destroying what is left of the American economy.

I never claimed to have read "The Creature from Jekyll Island"... that's YOUR strawman, not mine. Bush's "stratergury" serve's American and humanities interests, not that of "Zionists"

And please, your paranoid conspiracy theories demonstrate just how "deep" your thinking about the WoT is. You really think it's an "American/Zionist Plot"???

If so, what a maroon!

You said: Posted by farmerjohn at 2008-07-26 08:46 PM |: "An interesting read is "The Creature From Jekyll Island" written by G. Edward Griffin. Anybody interested in the REAL TRUTH about this stuff and how the FED as well as FDIC work hand in hand to ensure people remain in debt should read this book."

www.drudge.com

Bush's "stratergury" serve's American and humanities interests, not that of "Zionists"

What Lala land do you live in? They are all third world countries with no military.

Get an education. Here's a good read from Paul Craig Roberts. rense.com

That "Farmer John" is a different guy. I'm "Farmer_John".

They are all third world countries with no military.

In case you hadn't noticed, Osama bin Laden is in the process of conquering PAKISTAN. He's married off many of his family members into the Taliban tribes in ther Frontier Provinces and will soon, without promp western intervention, control the nuclear weapons and forces there.

Now who's the one living in la-la land, again?

Afghanistan is where Osama bin Laden TRAINS his mujahadeen forces. It's also the "immaculate" poster war he needs for recruiting Islamic "fortune-hunting sons" from around the Islamic world. Any "idiot" who thinks that the addition of a couple of combat brigades to Afghanistan will "achieve victory" needs to have his head examined...

Oh, wait, that's Obama's plan...

Bush = stratergury. Obama = stupidity.

You are going to have some confusion with that name.

Osama bin Laden is in the process of conquering PAKISTAN.

That's laughable. There is a poster, Tosser, from Pakistan who comes on this site occasionally. I brought that up to him and he claims the Taliban is on the level of the Klu Klux Clan in this country. The Taliban has one interest, and that is extricating the US from Afghanistan.

The US military is instigating a war with Pakistan by bombing civilians in that country. Pakistanis see Musharraf as a US stooge. If he goes, we're in deeper shit than we already are.

I live in the real world.

It's also the "immaculate" poster war he needs for recruiting Islamic "fortune-hunting sons" from around the Islamic world.

Not necessary when they have Bush and the Israelis.

My gosh, we have hundreds of thousands of military personnel wrecking two countries and threatening a third. Do you expect Islamists to take this kindly?

Laughable? Really? Tell THAT to Benazir Bhutto. Oh wait, you can't. She's DEAD.

The Taliban in the autonomous Northwestern Provinces of Pakistan ARE the Aghani people. They're Pashtun's who either need to get their asses herded back over the border into Afghanistan by the Paki's OR who need to have their borders shifted east so that they fall within the actual country of Afghanistan and be dealt with accordingly. If Paksistan wants to survive, they'd be well advised to move east and establish a REAL border. Because even you would have to admit, THEY ARE AN AUTONOMOUS REGION. Musharraf has NO CONTROL and minimal influence over them. They are Pakistani's "in name only".

My gosh, we have hundreds of thousands of military personnel wrecking two countries and threatening a third. Do you expect Islamists to take this kindly?

I don't care about what they take kindly to. You have noticed the genocides in Darfur and Somalia? You do realize that Islam is "on the march" throughout the horn of Africa and now threatening Obama's native country of Kenya?

The Islamists are interested in world domination. Don't believe me? Read the Koran.

Ray....good read by Paul Craig Roberts. Just another piece of evidence and a way to connect the dots of the influence that the American Jew has on foreign affairs (AIPAC). Bottom line, I'm hard pressed to believe anything that politicans such as Schumer, Rahm Emanuel or any other Jewish politican dishes to the american public. Nothing but lip service and deceit. Their allegiances for the american people are highly suspect and duplicious.

Obama's native country of Kenya

Hawaii is in Kenya?

Not necessary when they have Bush and the Israelis.

So if we evacuated the Jews from Israel and withdrew ALL US forces from the Middle East, Islamic expansion in the horn of Africa and South/West would stop? Oh, wait, expansion north from the former Soviet Republics would stop? Oh, wait, expansion into Southern Europe/Bosnia/Serbia would stop? Oh, wait expansion into France and the Netherlands would stop? Oh, wait, expansion into North and South America would stop?

Please.

You can't stop a force bent on world domination by surrender and appeasement, can you?

Obama's native country of Kenya

Hawaii is in Kenya?

You mean Obama isn't an African-American? Whoda thunkit? Somebody please inform the Rev Jeremiah Wright and Obama's brother and grandma!

I wonder which part of

...this map the Left fails to comprehend?

Oh so now the Taliban are going to fight the US in Afghanistan AND conquer Pakistan. Your source is as delusional as you.

The Islamists are interested in world domination. Don't believe me? Read the Koran.

Read the Bible. So are Zionists.

Out of 192 countries in this world, the US has bases in 120, and a military as large as all the military in the world put together. If that isn't evidence for ambition to dominate the world, I can't imagine anything more obvious.

Obama is not from Kenya. Neither is Jeremiah Wright. Is that too hard for you to understand?

You can't stop a force bent on world domination by surrender and appeasement, can you?

They have no military, for Chris sakes. You're as cracked as the rest of the neocons.

Out of 192 countries in this world, the US has bases in 120, and a military as large as all the military in the world put together. If that isn't evidence for ambition to dominate the world...

Ambition? No. WE ALREADY DOMINATE THE WORLD. There's nothing "ambitious" about it. It's called the PAX AMERICANA. To oppose America, you must oppose PAX.

And trading the devil you have for an Islamic devil that wants you to bow seven times a day to a rock in Mecca isn't anything worth disturbing the "PAX" over.

You see, the secret to Islamic world domination is burkas. They make men horny. They are going to make a lot of little Islamists by out fucking us.

They have no military, for Chris sakes.

No, they simply RAPE and ROB and BULLY their way into power, Janjaweed style.

And Osama is building a highly disciplined force in the mujahadeen. I'd take them hand to hand over any comparably equipped American unit, anyday!

It's a world system of EXOGAMY versus inbreeding. Choose your poison as to which you think should survive the Darwinian struggle...

Like Freud said, EVERYTHING is about sex... ;-)

WE ALREADY DOMINATE THE WORLD. There's nothing "ambitious" about it. It's called the PAX AMERICANA. To oppose America, you must oppose PAX.

Yeah sure. The Romans called it Pax Romana. No better way to make enemies around the world than by shoving soldiers up their asses.

You see, the secret to Islamic world domination is burkas. They make men horny. They are going to make a lot of little Islamists by out fucking us.

Close. They don't ABORT their offspring. They raise them to age 12 and hand them rifles....

Enough of this. Farmer needs a psychiatrist. I don't know if there is any medication strong enough to ease his hysteria.

No better way to make enemies around the world than by shoving soldiers up their asses.

Somebody is ALWAYS going to be in charge. It's the way of the world. And all the absence of power creates is a POWER VACUUM that "somebody" is going to fill. And better that "somebody" is one who'll leave you alone than someone who wants to pray to his silly god 7x a day.

Farmer needs a psychiatrist.

I'm not the one that wants to cede world government to the UN, a body that HAS NO MILITARY FORCES AT ALL, and is therefore structurally unable to accomplish anything at all except convince liberals to surrender to Islam.

Who gives a shit about the UN. It's composed of a worthless gang of kleptocrats.

Don't associate me with liberals. My political philosophy is libertarian. Both political parties are a pox on this nation.

You're a libertarian? Really? You don't think you have to FIGHT to remain free? Grow up.

W/O Republicans, the stupid Surendercrats and libertarians in America would be on their knees paying the dhimmi-tax and going listening to prayer calls at all hours of the night and day.

Freedom isn't free.

...slavery under stupid religions like Islam is mankind's "natural" condition.

There is no stronger threat to liberty than our own government. As I tried to allude to before, the US government is close to bankruptcy. It's been financing its wars with loans from other countries. Since you are clueless about economics, I wouldn't expect you to know that. You banter like this country has unlimited resources.

W/O Republicans, the stupid Surendercrats and libertarians in America would be on their knees paying the dhimmi-tax and going listening to prayer calls at all hours of the night and day.

Reagan couldn't retreat fast enough when Hezbollah kicked his ass in Beirut. Dubya pulled troops out of Saudi Arabia because OBL demanded it. Dubya also pulled troops from Afghanistan before the ob was finished to invade Iraq leading to two stagmires. That's quite a legacy for the Chimptards to cling to.

the US government is close to bankruptcy.

LOL! I'm afraid I'm a GREAT student of Xenophon's "Oeconimicus" and therefore a MUCH BETTER ECONOMIST than ANYONE from one of those modern "materialist" schools. And as such, I don't give a sh*t about who's computer all the world's "money" gets recorded in. I care more about REAL economics, like the "value" of a western constitution OVER a book like the Koran.

Reagan couldn't retreat fast enough when Hezbollah kicked his ass in Beirut. Dubya pulled troops out of Saudi Arabia because OBL demanded it. Dubya also pulled troops from Afghanistan before the ob was finished to invade Iraq leading to two stagmires. That's quite a legacy for the Chimptards to cling to.

At least we didn't fight FOR the Islamic conquest of the former Yugoslavian states like the Clintoonians. You surrendercrats would make great eunichs and Janissary's.

Try to finance a war without money and see how far it gets you.

As your buddy Bush once said, "the Constitution is a damn piece of paper." It's now a relic of our past history.

Try to finance a war without money and see how far it gets you.

LOL! Nothing could be easier. Drop the 101st Airborne into Riyadh and we'll have all the loans we need.

There's "real" power that comes from the ability to project FORCE today, and then there's "monetary" power that might result in the ability to acquire the ability to project FORCE in the future as represented by money.

You figure out which one the more useful.

"the Constitution is a damn piece of paper."

And all the world's money is simply some electrons sitting on a hard-drive in New York. Your point?

Are they running out of electrons?

My point is that inflation is accelerating to intolerable levels from too many electrons.

Every nation that tried force to dominate the world, eventually destroyed itself. It's only a matter of time before the US runs our of credit.

Take a look at this chart for an idea how much the US is borrowing from other nations.
jsmineset.com

I'm stopping here. I've got better things to do then argue with you.

PS. If you see Tosser on this site, bounce your thoughts off of him about the Taliban taking over Pakistan.

You worried about $2.5 trillion dollars owed to foreigners? America's GDP in 2007 alone was $13.8 trillion.

I'd say there are PLENTY of electrons left.

"Drop the 101st Airborne into Riyadh and we'll have all the loans we need."

Just in case anyone thought the knotheaded kind of thinking that got the US into Messopotamia might have somehow gone the way of the dodo.

My point is that inflation is accelerating to intolerable levels from too many electrons.

That's the great thing about economics. Adam Smith explains it extremely well in his 1776 tome, the Wealth of Nations... foreign debts always get "repaid" with "debased currency". That way, when you borrow a dollar, you only have to pay back about $0.10...

Of course, when investing in countries like Chevezuela, you never get anything back...

"Drop the 101st Airborne into Riyadh and we'll have all the loans we need."

Just in case anyone thought the knotheaded kind of thinking that got the US into Messopotamia might have somehow gone the way of the dodo.

Is there anything that is NOT true in the statement? King's have never ever "squeezed" the peasant's for war taxes? LOL!

Doc, are you any relation to Robbing Hood?

No.
Are you any relation to Elmer Fudd?

I've got this bridge in Brooklyn for sale. It's in pretty good shape. Any buyers?

Doc might be interested....

and of course the Chinese will buy ANYTHING American...

On a cost-benefit basis, the notion there is a won war in Iraq, or expenses might be recouped even within a couple of generations, is odd.

There is an old saying: "One more such victory and we shall be ruined".

On a cost-benefit basis, the notion there is a won war in Iraq, or expenses might be recouped even within a couple of generations, is odd.

Did you calculate the cost of LOSING the WoT? I've a feeling, Iraq was a bargain in comparison.

Did you calculate the cost of LOSING the WoT?

And to think it took only 19 kamikazes to get Bush to spend $trillions, deficits going through the roof, inflation out of control, dollar tanking, destroy two countries, kill hundreds of thousands of civilians, four thousand American troops dead, tens of thousands of more soldiers maimed for life, not to mentioned the tens of thousands of American families destroyed.

The cost-benefit must be close to infinity.

And to think it took precisely Zero attacks on the USA for Obama to propose an

$845 billion 'Tax Americans' program for providing the UN with more money to hand-out and take credit for in Africa.

And the cost-benefit ratio on THAT program is...???

Fuck Obama.

...and then there's the $50 billion global AIDS fighting tax that's coming up for a vote.

And you thought a 'president' could waste a TON of money. Here's a jr. Senator from Illinois who has already given away close to a trillion dollars... and he's not even president yet.

What are you telling me for? There is not one politician in Washington worth a shit.

What are you telling me for?

You seemed so concerned about the money spent on the war after America was attacked, yet you seem unconcerned when comparable money gets spent by an idiot do-gooder from Illinois for NO reason...

Is that how you'd like to see America re-gain the accolades and approbation of a world-wide audience... bribery?

It's better to be feared than loved....

"Did you calculate losting the War of Terror...."

As Iraq wasn't part of that war, no. But now that you bring it up, to date Iraq is a cost-benefit victory for your dreaded terrorists.

"Did you calculate the costs of losing the WOT....?"

Farmer John, I'll send you the lipstick, since you already have the pig. Oink.

By the way, FARMER JOHN, what Machiavelli actually said that one should be feared AND loved whenever possible. Just read the book.

Is the neoright interested in winning in Iraq? I stopped thinking so years ago. I think what you want is some arcane paper definition of victory, sufficient to infuriate your real enemies, the liberals and paleoconservatives.

If you watched that video and somehow in your warped mind think he was endorsing Obama's plan you have a serious comprehension issue.

~Mr Moto

Let's go to tape shall we...

BLITZER: What If Maliki persists, you're president, and he says he wants U.S. Troops out and he wants them out, let's say in a year or two years or 16 months or whatever, what do you do? Do you listen to the prime minister?

MCCAIN: He won't. He won't.

BLITZER: How do you know?

MCCAIN: Because I know him. And I know him very well. And i know the other leaders. And I know -- I've been there eight times, as you know. I know them very, very well.

BLITZER: So why do you think he said that -- 16 months is basically a pretty good timetable?

MCCAIN: He said it's a pretty good timetable based on conditions on the ground. I think it's a pretty good timetable, as we should -- or horizons for withdrawal. But they have to be based on conditions on the ground.

Basically it's McCain agreeing with Malaki's 16 month time table based on the conditions on the ground.

The fact that that also happens to coincide with Obama long held contention that a 16 month draw down was doable and neccessary must be an embarrassment to Yawn "100 Years" McNutso.

The fact that Obama has also sed, quite rightly, that conditions on the ground may yet affect that timetable has often been mistakenly depicted as flip flopping by wags on the right in blogworld.

So... Is that really McCain agreeing with Obama?

Indirectly, through a third party and in form of a hypothetical question, but yes, yes it is.

If you could actually believe a word out of McCain's mumbly mouth Spud might think this was a really positive step fer McAncient in terms of his personal evolution but as it is...

...not so much.

Be Well.

It is so silly to after five year say we are winning the war. Of course we are. Even without a surge we would have EVENTUALLY won. The point Obama should be making is just that. His argument should sound like this. You know, my daughter set the house on fire and I was really upset with her. She poured dixie cups of water on the flames for two hours with out any decrease in heat or flames. All of the furniture was gone and all of our pets died. It wasn't until hours later that she came up with a new strategy, get the water hose. This put the fire completely out. I was so proud of her for finally come up with a strategy to beat the flames. Becuase of this I forgave her for starting the fire in the first place. She does not need to be held accountable and every family on the block who lost something in the process should be thankful that it all turned out well. right!

Ah--so it is AP who can tell who is wins and who is loses. Yyyyes!
Posted by Master Yoda aka bOoB

This all depends on how you look at "winning". We can control the territory for as long as we're willing to sacrifice lives and a billion dollars a day. But considering that we get nothing in return for that cost, I hardly call it a "win". Iraq posed zero threat to us before this war. It seems that the best we can hope for is that we can say so again after the war. That isn't a "win" either. Bottom line is that the reasons we were given for being there were lies. They have proven to be untrue and people who still support those who told the lies are doing so at the expense of their country.

Shit! Iraq is not a war, it is an occupation and I would like to know how we are winning an occupation.

Iraq in any sense of prudent measure is not a war and can't believe people are still under the delusion that this is what it is.

This all depends on how you look at "winning".

Wasn't there a poll done last year where almost 40% of dems asked didn't want or didn't know if they wanted the US to succeed in Iraq?

"Wasn't there a poll done last year where almost 40% of dems asked didn't want or didn't know if they wanted the US to succeed in Iraq?"

I don't know. I'm not a dem and I have no idea what this would have to do with what I said. I follow the news on Iraq. I have yet to learn of any benefit to the US as a whole has gained from this. Iraq under Saddam was less of a threat than it is today.

You posted what defines winning? If their constituents don't want the US to succeed, how can the leading dems? Especally after doing everything they could to guarantee a loss for Bush and the repubs?

So give Petreaus a Star for developing an effective tactic for quelling violence, even if Iraqi citizens have no job, water, oil or electricity. The war was still an evil idea.

If we destroy the country, win the war and take over control of the flow of its oil we should all be very proud. Then we can all go back to church and listen to the words of Jesus.

Meanwhile we'll pay so much for oil that Saudi Arabia and Iran could buy our entire country in one year. We'll never pay off our debts or provide for our own citizens. But we will have record Corporate profits on top of lots of dead bodies.

This country is having an election with candidates with dramatically different strategies for the Middle East. Did it ever occur to anyone that the Iraqis are laying low until this event is over. Why kill yourself if the US leaves willingly? No one in the media will bring this simple fact up. Its not politically correct.

Should McCain win (which seems unlikely short of more election fraud) Iraqi's Freedom Fighters will re-emerge. Even if Obama wins, the Iraqi Freedom Fighters will send him a message that they are still there and will not tolerate a long term military presence by the United States.

Thank Rummy for his war on the cheap strategy which provided Iraqis an opening to store plenty of weaponry.

Iraq: Poised to Explode
As US presidential candidates debate timetables and exit strategies, Iraq's volatile factions are poised to explode--and Iran holds the match.
www.thenation.com

Flowers and chocolates all around; it's on the house, the White House!

"You posted what defines winning? If their constituents don't want the US to succeed, how can the leading dems?"

How can you say whether people want us to succeed in Iraq or not when nobody has told them what success entails?

I don't fault anyone for not wanting to stay there when we are losing plenty and have yet to be told what there is to gain.

What does the US gain from occupying Iraq?

The article claims we're winning. What side of the aisle are the people who said "who cares" residing on?

Is there any question why the leftwing loons are refered to as America Haters and said to be hoping for defeat?

What does the US gain from occupying Iraq?

What do we gain having bases in Germany? Japan? Korea? Would any military or global security strategists be against having base in the heart of the Middle East? Does anyone doubt where the current or future security threat to the West lies?

Why did it take so fucking long is all I want to know.

The mightest force that has ever walked this planet and it took this fucking long!?!?

Regardless of 'side' Chair, that is fucking pathetic.

Who in the fuck do you suppose we should pat on the back?

Why is it pathetic to point out what is clearly written? The people that don't care about the news are leftwing loons. I'm not guessing that, I read that.

Why did it take so fucking long is all I want to know.


Because as usual the war was conducted from Washington DC instead of Baghdad, Iraq. It was losing political strength because Americans couldn't stomach what was happening and what was needed to win. Instead we tried to win the minds of outspoken, anti war, political leaders and entities at home. It became more about image around the world. Instead of a tactics. As well as a hundred other errors after Baghdad fell.

"What do we gain having bases in Germany? Japan? Korea?"

Fuck if I know. Germans and Japanese and South Koreans don't plan roadside bombs for our troops and it doesn't cost a billion a day to be in those places either. But I wouldn't give a shit if we closed down those bases. What do you think we gain? You'd have to tell me because I don't see it.

"Would any military or global security strategists be against having base in the heart of the Middle East?"

Depends on the cost. I don't think any reputable expert would make any recommendation without understanding the cost. And why couldn't we have just asked Israel if we could station some troops over there? Would have been a fuck of alot cheaper and its practically the same location. Seems like the least they could do.

"Does anyone doubt where the current or future security threat to the West lies?"

What does having a base in Iraq do to mitigate the threat of terrorists? And if having a base in Iraq is reason enough to justify the war then why the fuck wasn't that the reason we were given BEFOREHAND? Seems to me that the people who wanted to push this thing through didn't believe the American public would want to go in there just to build some bases. And they were right. So they lied.

the ap another part of "the great right wing conspiracy" a lie is knowin the truth and sayin somethin different-----accordin most libs bush ain't smart enough to know the truth----so he couldn't have lied---he was jus wrong in his judgement---come on libs you can't have it both ways --also apparently the servin members of house and senate at that time weren't much brighter(or maybe they were equally dishonest)
jasman

101,

Win the War and collapse our country in the process. Just win the fucking unnecessary war.

Failing Banks; millions of empty houses and millions of homeless people; immeasurable Government Corruption even after locking up the worst known offenders; collapse of the middle class; food and gasoline prices skyrocketing; trade deficits as far as the eye can see; printing money and waging war like there's no tommorrow; country being bought up lock stock and barrel by foriegners, including Saudi Arabia, Abu Dabai, Japan, and China.

But ALL THAT MATTERS IS CLAIMING WE WON THE WAR. (We don't even have to actually win as long as we can make revisionist history). We can't admit the invasion was evil in the first place. After all they're EVIL and we're GOOD. Any innocent people caught in the middle, why they're just collateral damage. OK in our Judicial System (and God's eyes) for Shrub to take out with impunity, but a death sentence for McVee.

"Instead we tried to win the minds of outspoken, anti war, political leaders and entities at home."

Utter bull shit. No effort whatever was made to convince the anti-war people, the Bush cabal knew very well it would be useless to attempt to convince those who saw through their lies. No, their efforts were concentrated on retaining the support of right wing hacks like Crispee and they succeeded. As far as the war itself, they ran it exactly the way they wanted to, ignoring all criticism even from within their own party. Any blame for the length of the war, the expense of the war, the number of casualties, the number of dead Iraqis, etc. fall squarely on those who lied to make a case for beginning this idiotic invasion and then keeping it going. Crispee, morons like you are more to blame for all of the deaths, expense, etc. than anyone from the anti-war crowd that is for sure. Just so you know, it is not patriotic to be stupid.,

Just so you know, it is not patriotic to be stupid.,

Posted by danni at 2008-07-28 12:13 PM |


There is a classic line from a classic lib. This same hypocrite opposes any measure that shows patriotism. For you I would say it is stupid not to be patriotic. BTW my post had nothing to do with any libs here. You don't have a pulpit spouting things like another Vietnam. The torture prisons are re-opened under George Bush. We have lost the war. We are kidnapping women and children. We are occupiers. You know those patriotic political stunts. It worked though in 2006. Too bad it also proves how pathetic the dems are as a majority party.

This same hypocrite opposes any measure that shows patriotism...

Perhaps we need to define "Patriotic" friend.

Is it Patriotic to Torture?

Is it Patriotic allow the President to use secret rendition in your name?

Is it Patriotic to allow our President to violate the law and the Constitution by illegally wiretapping Americans in the name of some small measure of security and by attacking a sovereign nation based on Lies?

Is it Patriotic to deny human rights to Prisoners of War?

Is it Patriotic to sit by and allow all these things and not say something?

Yes I think we need to redefine Patriotic.

I suggest you start here.

www.house.gov


Back in January of 2007 current presidential candidate Barack Obama insisted that sending additional troops to Iraq would actually increase sectarian violence. Obama refused to acknowledge the Surges success, even as the evidence was piling up.

Obama said, on January 10, 2007, on MSNBC:

I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse.--

On January 14, 2007, on Face the Nation, he said:

We cannot impose a military solution on what has effectively become a civil war. And until we acknowledge that reality - we can send 15,000 more troops, 20,000 more troops, 30,000 more troops, I dont know any expert on the region or any military officer that Ive spoken to privately that believes that is going to make a substantial difference on the situation on the ground.--

(What kind of experts was he talking to?)

On March 19, 2007, on the Larry King show, he said:

[E]ven those who are supporting - but heres the thing, Larry - even those who support the escalation have acknowledged that 20,000, 30,000, even 40,000 more troops placed temporarily in places like Baghdad are not going to make a long-term difference.--

On May 25, 2007, in a speech to the Coalition Of Black Trade Unionists Convention, Obama said:

And what I know is that what our troops deserve is not just rhetoric, they deserve a new plan. Governor Romney and Senator McCain clearly believe that the course that were on in Iraq is working, I do not.--

On July 18, 2007, on the Today show, he said:

My assessment is that the surge has not worked and we will not see a different report eight weeks from now.--

On November 11, 2007, two months after General David Petraeus told Congress that the surge was working, Obama doubled down, saying that the administrations new strategy was making the situation in Iraq worse:

Finally, in 2006-2007, we started to see that, even after an election, George Bush continued to want to pursue a course that didnt withdraw troops from Iraq but actually doubled them and initiated a surge and at that stage I said very clearly, not only have we not seen improvements, but were actually worsening, potentially, a situation there.--

If we had listened to Barack Obama, all U.S. combat forces would have left Iraq in a phased withdrawal that would have began on May 1, 2007. So the Surge would have been crippled before it fully got off the ground on June 15, 2007.

When Obama introduced a failed piece of legislation entitled, The Iraq War De-escalation Act of 2007--, his office had already declared the Surge a failure before it even began.

The Obama plan offers a responsible yet effective alternative to the Presidents failed policy of escalation.--

It brings to mind the ear screeching protests of the Senate Majority Leader, Harry Reid, who stated; I believe ... that this war is lost, and this surge is not accomplishing anything, as is shown by the extreme violence in Iraq this week.-- Reids premature declaration came almost two months before Surge operations would fully get under way.

How can we believe someone who lies so effortlessly as Barack Obama does? There is a long paper trail that documents Obamas continual claims that the Surge would fail to reduce violence and actually make it worse. Then read his more recent statement from January of 2008 in which Obama whitewashed his previous stance;

Now, I had no doubt, and I said at the time, when I opposed the surge, that given how wonderfully our troops perform, if we place 30,000 more troops in there, then we would see an improvement in the security situation and we would see a reduction in the violence.--

That lying scumbag David Axelrod should be FIRED!

btw - So should this one...

"That lying scumbag David Axelrod should be FIRED!"
========================

^^^WHY??? For telling the truth?^^^

You lefties are TRULY a censorous group.

FACT!!!

when you talk bout obama withdrawin troops you seem to ignore the part about "if the situation can support it" he is not that far from any of a number of people who say if and when the iraqi's can stand up---his position is not original or radical
jasman

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