I guess he can join Reagan and Carter as two President who have seen UFOs. There are even reports of UFOs at a couple of Alexander the Greats battles. Reagan sure like to talk about UFOs.

they're not aliens.

they're not aliens.

Posted by nanc at 2008-07-25 01:18 PM | Reply

friends of yours?

I rest on your face. I mean, I rest my case...

BB,

While we don't see eye to eye on issues, I do have to admit that there have been a significant number of credible people making some interesting statements about the existence of UFOs.

I am not sure what "educated" people make of Dr. Mitchell's statement. He is not simply claiming to see something odd in the sky; he states in no uncertain terms this is a real phenomena known by many for the past 60 years. In fact, he says he was briefed on the subject.

I don't see much room for quibbling in one's assessment of his statement. We have to conclude that he is either delusional, or lying or he is telling the truth.

Honestly, I find it very difficult to accept any one of these conclusions.

PAX

Funny how bOoB believes these guys when they talk about aliens, but he doesn't believe them when they say they've walked on the moon

Two aliens landed in the Arizona desert near an abandoned gas station. They approached one of the gas pumps, and one of the aliens addressed it.

"Greetings, Earthling. We come in peace. Take us to your leader."

The gas pumps of course, didn't respond. The alien repeated the greeting. Again there was no response. The alien, annoyed by what he perceived to be the gas pumps haughty attitude, drew his ray gun, and said impatiently, "Greetings earthling. We come in peace. How dare you ignore us in this way! Take us to your leader, or I'll fire!"

The other alien shouted to his comrade, "No, you don't want to make him mad!" But before he finished his warning, the first alien fired.

There was a huge explosion that blew both of them 200 meters into the desert, where they landed in a heap rather abruptly. When they finally regained consciousness, the one who fired turned to the other one and said, "What a ferocious creature. It damn near killed us! How did you know it was so dangerous?"

The other alien answered, "If there's one thing I've learned during my travels through the galaxy, when a guy has a penis he can wrap around himself twice and then stick it in his own ear, you don't mess with him."

Singing Alien

they're not aliens.

Posted by nanc

Unless they have permanent residency status they technically are.

Sorry, but wherever they come from, they are illegal aliens. I bet they are just coming here to steal our jobs.

One theory floating around is that East Asians are the result of matings a long time ago between humans and aliens. That would explain their exotic looks and superior intelligence.

I have seen a fair amount of unidentified flying objects in the course of 5,200 flight hours over the last eight years. I call 'em in as "the Great Pumpkin". Another buddy of mine calls them "Buddy Holly" (he flies over Iowa, which is boring, alot). Mostly I would see them around dusk, when eyes play tricks on you the most, although the one that caught my fancy the most was at 11:30 PM on August 17, 2004 over Gage County, Nebraska-- it pulsed, made quick jerky movements, and two others with me saw the exact same thing-- AAAAND a pilot coming from Marshall field over at Fort Riley got it padlocked and radioed it in, and got ATC over in Junction City involved in some interesting communication that we picked up on. So its an official "ET" sighting, right? LOL!

I don't fly at dusk/night like I used to and this season I've only logged a paltry total of 75 hours :(

Still, just because you see some flathatting bogeys performing some intricate ACMs at expense of the sanity of others within viewing range-- that doesn't mean there's proof in that that ETs exist. Gosh. If they exist, those motherfucking aliens sure can fly!!!!

There's enough freaky looking people in this world to gawk and wonder at. Why do we need to think about ETs as well???

K G Beekeeper

Care to comment on the statement by Mitchell.

"I happen to have been privileged enough to be in on the fact that we've been visited on this planet and the UFO phenomena is real," Dr Mitchell said.

"It's been well covered up by all our governments for the last 60 years or so, but slowly it's leaked out and some of us have been privileged to have been briefed on some of it.

Is he lying? Telling the truth? Or is he mental. Same with the other astronauts and Presidents. Do they all have problems with reality? Are they all lying? Are any of them telling the truth>

Buffalo Bob,

What kind of things do they do at one of your Church of the UFO meetings. Do people handle snakes and speak in tongues?

FWThom

I'm sorry--did you thinkl this link was about me saying there are UFOs? Not at all, little mind. It is about several astronauts who claim knowledge of UFOs. This thred in particular is about Dr Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 astronaut. Why not email him and ask what they do at his church? Or Buzz Aldrin--Or Gordon Cooper--or hundreds of military--police and airline pilots?

"Care to comment on the statement by Mitchell.
"I happen to have been privileged enough to be in on the fact that we've been visited on this planet and the UFO phenomena is real," Dr Mitchell said.
"It's been well covered up by all our governments for the last 60 years or so, but slowly it's leaked out and some of us have been privileged to have been briefed on some of it.
Is he lying? Telling the truth? Or is he mental. Same with the other astronauts and Presidents. Do they all have problems with reality? Are they all lying? Are any of them telling the truth"

I would say the average person who has spent any time up in the air is a bit mental. I know I am. Though I've never walked on the moon I have been to school bus demolition derbies in rural Dakota country where strange bug-faced entities have been frequently observed, and have speculated that there are some aliens currently residing at the Maharishi University for Transcendental Meditation over in Fairfield, Iowa.

Again, ET life doesn't particularly interest me. If they are real then they are playing fucking games with us. Its not like they can develop a quantum teletransportation device that takes their spaceship from Antares to our solar system in 15 nanoseconds but can't even set up a proper press conference afterwards to acknowledge and confirm their presence among us.

He is right. There are aliens amongst us. How else do you explain Barack Hussein Obama?

UTA-
(psst...there are other black people indigenous to this planet. really. google it.)

Buffalo Bob,

Instead of a bunch of links to crack pots who claim to have SEEN UFUs, how about some hard evidence like a hubcap from a UFU or a green alien with two heads?

An alien in the Smithsonian talks...Bullshit walks!

Aliens are real - much like our dreams are real.
'Psychic phenomenom' - real - but not necessarily physically real.

But if they ever get their mits on one...

FWThom

3 astronauts and 2 Presidents are "crackpots"?

You are an idiot.

About 90% of what you hear on this subject is garbage. However, men like Dr Mitchell, Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin and Michael Collins, (Apollo 11) Jim Lovell (Apollo 13) Ed White and Gordon Cooper (Gemni 5 and 6 respectively) are credible. As I posted a few days ago, I am a retired NSA official. Within the next two years, the story for all mankind will be revealed.

they're not aliens.

Posted by nanc

just undocumented extra terrestrials.
###
Instead of a bunch of links to crack pots who claim to have SEEN UFUs, how about some hard evidence like a ... green alien with two heads?

Posted by fwthom

Next time BLT is here, introduce your self to him. But rememer, that's not his hand you're shaking.

I bet I can take'm at bocce...

3 astronauts and 2 Presidents are "crackpots"?

You are an idiot

No, bOoB. It is you who is the idiot.

You have said many times and offered much 'proof' that man never went to the moon. Edgar Mitchell and Buzz Aldrin claimed to have gone to the moon. So if you think they are lying about that, why do you think they are telling the truth about aliens?

As I posted a few days ago, I am a retired NSA official. Within the next two years, the story for all mankind will be revealed.

Well, Angel of Truth, if you know the truth reveal it in detail now. What have you go to lose?

PAX

Goatman

I said Apollo 11 never went to the moon.

Join your buddy in the idiot line--don't crowd.

Grendel:

Ok, I will, here goes, I will reveal one of several facts. The others I do not feel comfortable with as they are too severe.

1 The truth on Roswell will be released before the end of this year. The Air Force, NASA and the National Security Agency will hold a joint press conference revealing the following:

There was a crash involving 7 extraterrestrial beings from our solar system. One of them lived for almost a week. The other is alive and remained in seclusion until 1949. In May of 1949, the being left Earth when a craft from his planet landed in area 51 (area 51 is legitimate).

The remains of the alien that died a week after the crash along with the other five are at a secret location. That information will not be revealed.

What the alien that lived on earth until 1949 revealed to the governments of tthe United States, Soviet Union and Britian is as follows:

They plan to colonize the earth both here and on their planet which is compatible to humans. The aliens planet is MARS.

more to come perhaps

I said Apollo 11 never went to the moon.

Well, that was one of your stories. At another time you said no human ever went to the moon. I know because I challenged you on your change of stance.

At any rate, Buzz Aldrin claimed to have gone to the moon. He was on the Apollo XI crew. Why do you believe his alien story, but but disbelieve him when he said he went to the moon.

AngelofTruth,

Well, I will be waiting to hear the "truth" about Roswell.

They plan to colonize the earth both here and on their planet which is compatible to humans.

Well, that will certainly give whole new meaning to illegal aliens.

You say the rest of the news is too severe. I assume that you mean by that is that we will not be given the choice of whether we wish to be colonized.

I do not disbelieve you; neither do I believe you. Let's just say, I believe in the possibility of many things. The possible is not necessarily the probable and the improbable is not necessarily the impossible.

If what you say is true, it will not matter as I we will not have long to wait to find out!

No other tidbits?

PAX

Why do you believe his alien story, but but disbelieve him when he said he went to the moon.

Posted by goatman at 2008-07-25 10:11 PM | Reply

People can tell the truth about some things and lie about others. Is every word you've ever spoken been the truth? Have you ever lied? Does that make everything you've said a lie? I think most people are like that. You just have to decide when and what to believe and why.

Like I believe Bush when he said he saw the first plane before he went into the classroom, and don't believe him when he says anything else.

People can tell the truth about some things and lie about others.

So you admit you cherry pick.

Not that I didn't know that already . . .

I don't believe in visitors from outer space. But, as I have said before on this site, I have seen a UFO. To this day I have yet to hear a credible explanation for what I observed in the sky. I have read about lenticular clouds, Air Force test flights, and so forth. What I saw (twice) defied all those explanations. As Dana Scully might say, "I want to believe".

Speaking of which, I just saw the new X Files movie. I liked it. My 20 year old son didn't. Not enough aliens and supernatural stuff in it for his tastes. More like a creepy murder mystery.

Fucking bullshit. All of it. Find a fucking corpse or shoot down a fucking "flying saucer", or shut the fuck up.

Hell, I've seen plenty of UFOs -- unidentifed fly objects.

Go out in the desert at night in Arizona and you see all kinds of shit in the sky

If we go by Boob's thinking, every meteorite and bits of Skylab are proof that aliens are impregnating women -- but only women in rural Mississippi and Nevada. Meanwhile, they are raping cows in Montana

People can tell the truth about some things and lie about others.

So you admit you cherry pick.

Not that I didn't know that already . . .

Posted by goatman at 2008-07-25 11:34 PM

Not at all. I admit people can tell the truth about some things and lie about others. Do you admit you twist peoples words?

Not at all. I admit people can tell the truth about some things and lie about others.

I'm different than you. If I catch you lying to me in a grand way (and what could be a bigger lie than to say one went to the moon when they never did?) I'll never believe you again.

"The other is alive and remained in seclusion until 1949"

He's kind of like the alien equivalent of Howard Hughes.

"In May of 1949, the being left Earth when a craft from his planet landed in area 51"

OMG!! So THAT'S where Spielberg got the plot to ET? was there a little boy flying as bicycle in this whole affair perchance?

"They plan to colonize the earth both here and on their planet which is compatible to humans."

Did we waterboard the little guy to get all this information? Or perhaps the aliens are immune to waterboarding seeing that they likely have gills...

"The remains of the alien that died a week after the crash along with the other five are at a secret location. That information will not be revealed"

Wow, I bet it's the same place that DB Cooper is at!

"Air Force, NASA and the National Security Agency will hold a joint press conference revealing the following:"

When you say "joint' do you mean that an awful lot of cannabis will be smoked prior to said press conference?

"The aliens planet is MARS"

How come we didn't stumble across them during the Viking missions, the rover expeditions or while filming "Total recall"?

They plan to colonize the earth both here and on their planet which is compatible to humans. The aliens planet is MARS.

Angel, Darling: Mars is not compatible to humans. To cold, atmosphere is far too thin and there is no O2. Also, they plan to colonize their own planet? Hmmmm -- I'm surprised they haven't done that yet.

...Also, they plan to colonize their own planet?
Hmmmm -- I'm surprised they haven't done that yet.

-- Goat

ff for best dry humor

They plan to colonize the earth both here and on their planet which is compatible to humans. The aliens planet is MARS.

Angel, Darling: Mars is not compatible to humans. To cold, atmosphere is far too thin and there is no O2. Also, they plan to colonize their own planet? Hmmmm -- I'm surprised they haven't done that yet.

I was not going to post any more on this subject, howver, due to the ignornant post above I felt I should. In fact, the post above shows why many are not ready for the truth.

When I say colonize their own planent I mean with us (humans) as well, which has not happen on Mars as of yet. Many humans will be taken to Mars to colonize below the surface. Not all of Mars is as cold as NASA wants you too believe and many of the ET from Mars live on the top of the surface. By hybreding with us, the offspring will be able to survive on the surface

There are aliens. Dennis Kucinich married one.

Some of them look like us and are living amongst us now. They are called watchers as in the Holy Bible.

Not all of Mars is as cold as NASA wants you too believe and many of the ET from Mars live on the top of the surface.

Angel,

I by no means am an expert on this. And I know we arent going to get any answers by blogging with you today. But I am a proponet of if it seems incorrect, it probably is. You say some ET live on the top of the surface of mars..right? Don't we have alot of satellites going around that planet? Wouldnt we see some of those guys? Plus, in their interstellar movings, wouldnt some of our telescopes see them moving from place to place?

By hybreding with us, the offspring will be able to survive on the surface

If hybreeding is any indication of sex, at least the liberals will be happy. They will let the aliens fuck them all day and night.

On the serious side, what you say angel, I hope is true. I sort of dont believe your comment of they live on the surface of mars. If they did, they would have to drive (or move) across the surface. They dont have bridgestones? But I will say this. I hope what you say is true! Imagine what this would mean. Maybe space travel, other worlds. Medical discoveries. It's almost too emotional to comprehend. I will not forget this angel, and sometime in Jan 2009, I will call you on it!

The others I do not feel comfortable with as they are too severe.

This implies that there is something of which I will have no choice.

Many humans will be taken to Mars to colonize below the surface.

Again, me being in the military, I dont like words like taken. Sort of alarming. I can see how this can casue paranoia and get out of control real quick.

I believe their are aliens amongst us now and that they have always been amongst us. I think there are many alien races--some look like us--some don't. Humanity is a created hybred of one of these races. The Creation story is true--sort of. So is evolution. Some are benevolent races and some are not. Even among the various alien races there are variations of good and evil towards us.

I don't think Mars is their main planet, but I think Mars is definitely an outpost, as is the moon. Many alien races means many home planets, but the aliens with the closest home planet is said within our solar system--a planet called Niburu. Niburu is supposedly on a 3600 year orbit, with its next closest approach estimated to be around 3400CE. Niburu orbits a brown dwarf star that is a companion to our sun. It is hypothesized that they can block the visual of their planet, but not the gravity of it, and there has been an unknown source of gravitational pull beyond Pluto that is as yet unexplained.

As to Mars, there is some evidence of things on Mars we don't understand. Undergound tunnels?

If hybreeding is any indication of sex, at least the liberals will be happy. They will let the aliens fuck them all day and night.

That comment reeks of hypocrisy. Vitter, Craig, the point being that consevatives have their far share of perverts and deviants

Don't we have alot of satellites going around that planet? Wouldnt we see some of those guys? Plus, in their interstellar movings, wouldnt some of our telescopes see them moving from place to place?

Of course we do and NASA and my old employer have censored all the proof since 1976 when Viking Landed on Mars' surface. In fact, all of these photos will be released gradually in the nexy year.

Finally, fair enough, call me on it next year. I hope you are right and I am wrong

"With a tip of the hat to Hagbard Celine who didn't quite have the courage to post this themself, but was intrigued enough to link me to the article."

"their are aliens amongst us now and they have always been amongst us. I think there are many alien races--some look like us--some don't"

Boob knows this because he owns the 'secret' director's cut of MEN IN BLACK

Aliens exist and they've been experimenting on the Pennsylvanians for quite some time.

BUFFALO BOB:
I saw that on the History Channel also, and I read a book on 2012 that my brother in law loaned me last year.
That whole thing about a planet bearing down on us seems like a bit too much to digest, but I did find it fascinating that the Mayans knew of the existence of a black hole at the center of our galaxy, a fact that we only recognized for about 5 years now.

NJDevil

I agree that it seems very unlikely, but when a lot of little things add up--the likelihood seems a bit more probable.

It is known our sun is a second or third generation star, and that it formed from the deaths of other stars that may have had planets orbiting them. It is possible that one of these planets was captured by our sun as it wandered through space after its sun exploded billions of years ago, and is now orbiting in a 3600 year cycle.

As to the Mayans knowing of the black hole at the center of the galaxy, it is also interesting that on Dec 21, 2012, the sun rises in alignment with the center of the galaxy and the black hole perfectly.

I'm not saying that a second sun is out of the question completely. Most systems known to us at this time are binary solar systems, and our single sun seems to be the exception to a rule.
Regarding the last sentence that you wrote, yes. That is a fact that no one is disputing. Wonder if it will have any impact on us.

So many credible sources coming forth with alien revelations in the last few years. Then as mentioned above, the Vatican covering it's bases with it's "they're all God's creation" memo.

I think we are systematically prepped for a big revelation in the next couple of years.

And in support of BBob and his moon landing position. I think we clearly landed on the moon. But just as clear is that some of the Apollo 11 photos are fakes. To not see that, you have to toss objectivity out the window.

It is possible that one of these planets was captured by our sun as it wandered through space after its sun exploded billions of years ago, and is now orbiting in a 3600 year cycle

Possible, but very likely unlikely.

When I woke up, I turned on the TV in my cabin to watch the news while I brushed my teeth and got dressed. They had an interview with Dr. Mitchell. He was a doddering old fool who spoke and appeared worse than McCain. It was sad to see one of the ten men who walked on the moon like that. But I guess the ravages of age don't take preference on whether you've been on the moon or not.

He started blubbering about 'secret' ESP experiments he did while on the moon and other odd things.

I wonder if the man's all there. I hope so. I hate to see an American hero lose his his mind as he appears to be doing.

Possible, but very likely unlikely.

Posted by goatman at 2008-07-26 07:18 PM | Reply

Agreed, and no way to prove it. However, the Enuma Elish talks about a celestial battle of the gods which had always been taken for Myth, but when planets are substituted for the gods it seems to explain a lot about the solar system as we know it today.

The Enuma Elish starts out with two planets--Tiamat, and Mercury. Then it describes the formation and order of the other planets. It says Tiamat was about twice as large as the Earth, covered with water, and orbiting where the asteroid belt is now. The Moon was orbiting Tiamat and was formed at the same time as the planet. Tiamats gravitational field was affecting the orbits of the outer planets, and the solar system was unstable. Then along comes this rogue planet influenced by the gravitational pull of the outer planets and is pulled into a closer arc where it is captured by the sun. This planet is out of the plane of the ecliptic and orbits in the opposite direction as the rest of the planets. Unfortunately for Tiamat, its closest approach is where the asteroid belt is located. As the rogue planet passed by the newly forming out planets, it pulled off some of their matter, carrying new moon into the inner planets. During the first passage, only the moons of the rogue planet hit the Earth, splitting it open, but on the next pass, the planet itself struck the earth, pretty much splitting it in half and sending it and the Moon, which had been impacted also, into a new orbit, which Earth inhabits today, and stabilizing the other planetary orbits. This ancient, and first religious story has all the planets, the order of formation, an explanation for the asteroid belt, an explanation as to what caused Uranus to orbit on its side--and more. The Sumerians knew the exact length of a Great Year and used a number equaling 500 Great Years. They were the first to write the Enuma Elish which was copied by the Babylonians, The Sumerians were the first at many things, and they said the gods told them all they knew.

Unlikely--I agree, but it makes more sense than the biblical version. I guess we'll find out in 2012.

and no way to prove it

Actually, it is very easy to prove. You postulate a planet with a 3,600 year period. And I am assuming you are inferring a highly elliptical orbit, because a near circular orbit would have no discernable or noticable effects on the earth.

If a rogue planet was at its aphelion, it made a close approach to earth 1,800 years ago. The planets' motions and orbits have been well known and have not deviated in the thousands of years they have been studied. There would be perturbations in the orbits of other planets 1,800 years ago that would be noticable today. I.E., the planets would not be in their predicted positions usind data from 4,000 years ago. But they are.

BBob

Immanuel Velikovsky went into the aspect of Greek mytholoogy being related to actual celestial events in "Worlds in Collision". If you've never read his trilogy I highly recommend them.

I agree, but it makes more sense than the biblical version. I guess we'll find out in 2012

If a planet with a 3,600 year period will be near us in 2012, we would likely be seeing it through telescopes. Also, we could possibly be noticing minute changes in the orbits of the outer gas giants -- depending on the eccentricity of the rogue planet's orbit and its declination to the ecliptic.

It is possible that one of these planets was captured by our sun

A star's death usually happens in one of two ways: If it is below the Chandrasekhar limit it will slowly burn its mass away until its core is a dense soup of unfusible elements -- usually iron -- and the planets orbiting it will slowly expand in their orbit, but will remain with the parent star, albeit at a further distance. For it to leave the gravitational influence of its parent star, the star would have to suddenly lose all its mass, which isn't possible since fusion is no longer possible with the heavier elements.

The other scenarario is if a star is above the Chandrasekhar limit, in which case it will go supernova and blast any planet that orbits it into its constituent elements.

IOW, planets don't just leave their parent star and start wandering the cosmos.

Goatman

The planet will not be back in 2012. The planet is not due back until around 3400. The presence of the planet is not necessary for 2012.

What is the Enuma Elish ?

IOW, planets don't just leave their parent star and start wandering the cosmos.

Posted by goatman at 2008-07-26 10:33 PM |

Says you.

The planet is not due back until around 3400

Then it was at perihelion 200 years ago if its orbital period is 3,600 years. Astronomy was quite advance (observation wise) in 1808. I wonder why it was not noticed?

Says you.

And all astronomers, professional and amateur.

Sorry, bOoB, I know how you detest science and facts since we've been through this before, but those are the facts.

I described why a planet cannot leave its parent star. If you want to dispute that, please tell me how one could.

What is the Enuma Elish ?

Posted by goatman at 2008-07-26 10:34 PM

Book Description
Subtitled: The Babylonian and Assyrian Legends Concerning the Creation of the World and of Mankind. The Enuma Elish is one of the oldest stories known to mankind. It is a story first written down by the ancient Sumerians thousands of years ago. As a one time assistant in the Department of Egyptian and Assyrian Antiquities at the British Museum, L.W. King provides us with a qualified translation of the tablets which were originally written in cuneiform script. The Enuma Elish is receiving renewed interest from modern researchers delving into the origins of mankind, the earth, and the solar system. Over the centuries a copy ended up in the library at Nineveh in the 7th century B.C., and was uncovered by archaeologists in the late 1800s. Written in cuneiform text and preserved on seven clay tablets, the entire story was called "The Seven Tablets of Creation." After being translated the story revealed how the planets became aligned, how a cosmic catastrophe affected the earth, how mankind came upon the scene, and how the "gods" played a role in all of it. The Seven Tablets of Creation have had many profound implications since they were first discovered and subsequently published. They predate many parts of the Book of Genesis as well as other worldwide creation myths. Volume One includes this epic poem's English translation. It also includes information on parallels in Hebrew literature, the date and origin of the Babylonian creation legends, and more. Volume Two includes other accounts of creation, an Assyrian "Tower of Babel" story, and supplementary texts showing the actual cuneiform tablets.

which had been impacted also, into a new orbit, which Earth inhabits today, and stabilizing the other planetary orbits.

You imply that the orbits of the other planets were unstable before this event. There is no possible way that the mass of the earth and the moon could have a stabilizing effect on the rest of the planets. Their mass combined is thousands of times the mass of the earth and the moon. That would be like a 1 MPH cross wind affecting the direction of a supersonic jet traveling at Mach 4.

I googled Enuma Elish and wiki says this:

The epic names two primeval gods: Apsu, the fresh water, and Tiamat, the salt water. Several other gods are created (Ea and his brothers) who reside in Tiamat's vast body. They make so much noise that it annoys Tiamat and Apsu greatly. Apsu wishes to kill the young gods, but Tiamat disagrees. The vizier, Mummu, agrees with Apsu's plan to destroy them. Tiamat, to stop this from occurring, tells Ea (Nudimmud), at the time the most powerful of the gods, who, using magic, puts Apsu into a coma and kills him, and shuts Mummu out. Ea then becomes the chief god, and along with his consort Damkina, has a son, Marduk, greater still than himself. Marduk is given wind to play with and he uses it to make dust storms and tornadoes. This disrupts Tiamat's great body and causes the gods still residing inside her to be unable to sleep.

Then it was at perihelion 200 years ago if its orbital period is 3,600 years. Astronomy was quite advance (observation wise) in 1808. I wonder why it was not noticed?

Posted by goatman at 2008-07-26 10:36 PM

Actually, if you take 3400 and minus out 3600, you come up with -200. Not 1808. The planet was closest to us about 200 BCE, but there could still have been travel between the planet and Earth for a long time on either side of that time. When the distance was too great for their ships to travel in a timely mannner, they had outposts here and on Mars--until one of their return orbits caused a meteor impact on Mars that stripped it of its atmosphere. The old stories even mention a face on mars and tell who it is.

As to the planet not being able to go running about the universe, I doubt the scientists know all there is to know about how a planet could go running around the universe on its own. It may have formed from the constituent elements as you say, in a cloud that was then influenced by a passing star and slingshotted away. So far, the evidence is not pointing to the science you cite direction. The asteroid belt is there, Uranus is orbiting on its side, and many other aspects are proven to be factual.

Goatman

You have to go a bit deeper than Wiki to know what Enuma Elish is all about. Do you think serious scholars would give it any consideration if it didn't have some scientific value? Have you read anything I have said about the information contained in it?

The Enuma Elish is about planets in conflict--that they had the names of gods is beside the point.

The gods mentioned were worshipped by humans in ancient times because they could do miraculous things--bring back the dead, fly--live forever. They were just aliens, but they did create us by crossing our DNA with theirs. They are not to be worshipped, so my atheist standing is intact. However, these ancient gods are the same gods we worship and fear in the churches and religious places around the world.

There was a god named Enlil, who comes to us as the God of the bible--he was the god of the flood, and genesis.

There was the god called Enki, who comes to us as Satan--Enki was the Snake in the Garden. The Symbol of Enki was the Snake. Enki was also chief medical officer and primary creator, with a female god, of mankind. As Chief Mdical Officer, his symbol was two intertwined snakes on a staff, with the symbol of their planet above it. We still use that symbol today for the medical profession, and the symbol of wings above the staff is for the winged planet. Niburu.

The biggest irony? I'm sure you will appreciate this, even coming from me. The people in the churches are worshipping the bad god. The good god they revile as Satan. Enlil wanted to kill mankind in the flood--enki saved humanity. The old stories tell of the flood, but in a coherent manner that actually make sense. Enki gave mankind the ability to reproduce, since the first crossbreeds were sterile. He comes to us as the Snake in the Garden of Eden, but what he gave us with the fruit was not knowledge, but KNOWING. As in the bible he KNEW his wife. In the original story, Eden was known as E. din. Which in Sumerian means--House in the Faraway.

Goatman

The Tiamat/Earth was twice as large as it is now and orbiting where the asteroid belt is now--halfway between Mars and Jupiter. The Enuma Elish says that Tiamat/Earth were formed first along with Mercury. That means the outer planets weren't as large as they are now, and when they were forming, Tiamat/Earth was interfering with their formation and orbits, making them unstable. This is about 4 billion years ago.

ually, if you take 3400 and minus out 3600, you come up with -200. Not 1808.

Fool Read my post. 2009 (this year) minus 200=1808. The year I said that observational astronomy would have detected the planet

BuffaloBob and Goatman

No one is happier than I am to see you two at least "speaking" to each other again.
If I had to do more "posts by proxy" like I did last year I'd be tearing my hair out! (grin)

doubt the scientists know all there is to know about how a planet could go running around the universe on its own

Probably not. But until then, we have to assume that current known laws of physics apply.

No one is happier than I am to see you two at least "speaking" to each other again.

Well, I'm outta here on this one. I know only how to debate using known facts, proven science and thousands of years of mathematics.

I do not know how to debate ancient folklore and mythical gods. I do now know which bag of magic fairy dust to throw at the enchanted sword to keep it from cutting the off one of the heads of the Hydra.

If bob wants to stick to facts and proven science, fine. I'll debate. If he wants to dispute commonly accepted scientific tenets, that's fine too. In fact it's encouraged. But when I ask him to explain something he disputes (such as rogue planets) the WRONG answer is, "I doubt we know everything". The RIGHT answer is a well thought out theory based on accepted physical principles.

Anyway, if I see any of that, I'll be back on this thread. If not, bob can find someone else more knowledgeable in fantasy than I to debate.

Goatman

I'm not debating anything. I am giving you information about what the ancient texts say and tying it in with modern knowledge. These ancient "myths" weren't written down by fiction writers. They were written down by the most learned people of their time. They said the gods told them--they said the gods were there. Maybe they were right. What if they were telling the absolute truth as scribes and historians. The stories they tell are too fantastic and too close to what we know to have been just guessed at. They knew all the planets. They knew about the asteroid belt. They gave us the plane of the ecliptic and 360 degrees in a circle. They said the gods told them everything.

Again;-) your math is off. The planet should return around 3400CE. It is now 2008CE. That means the planet will return in about 1392 years if the Enuma Elish is correct. That means it was here about 2208 years ago--or 200BCE--not 200 or 1808.

1392+ 2208=3600

Let me put it a way you can see it yourself. Assume it is now the year 3400CE. What was the year 3600 years ago? How good is your math?

My bad. When you said:

The planet is not due back until around 3400.

I misread it as the planet not being back for 3400 years, not 3400 AD, in which case my math was coorect. But since I mis-read it, my math is indeed incorrect. Sorry.

They gave us the plane of the ecliptic and 360 degrees in a circle.

Anyone with eyeballs and one year to use them can give you the ecliptic. 360 degrees was a logical nubmer of degrees for a circle because of all the divisors it can use to obtain whole numbers.

They said the gods told them

I don't believe in gods, therefore I don't believe stories allegedly told by them to man

The Tiamat/Earth was twice as large as it is now and orbiting where the asteroid belt is now--

The moon is .0123 the mass of the earth.

The Tiamat/Earth was twice as large as it is now and orbiting where the asteroid belt is now--halfway between Mars and Jupiter. The Enuma Elish says that Tiamat/Earth were formed first along with Mercury. That means the outer planets weren't as large as they are now, and when they were forming, Tiamat/Earth was interfering with their formation and orbits, making them unstable.

Modern scientific observations and all computer models indicate that all the planets formed at the same time. (in fact, it can be argued that they are still forming since they are all still 'sweeping' up space debris)

Jupiter's mass is 318 earths
Saturn's mass is 95 earths
Uranus' mass is 14 earths
Neptune's mass is 17 earths

The gas giants' total mass is 444 times earth's. It is impossible for that relatively small mass to interfere or influence the formation of the gas giants or make them unstable. Sorry.

It may have formed from the constituent elements as you say, in a cloud that was then influenced by a passing star and slingshotted away

That is possible -- I'll give you that. Astronomers refer to these as brown dwarfs, however -- not planets. But in essence you are correct that they could form outside the influence of a parent star.

Goatman

360 degrees was a logical nubmer of degrees for a circle because of all the divisors it can use to obtain whole numbers.

Posted by goatman at 2008-07-27

I agree. In fact, the Sumerians based their whole math system on the number 60 as its base instead of 100 or base ten. The same holds true for 60 over 100. More numbers are divisible into 60 than into 100. They knew the correct number of years in a Great Year, and modern science was still guessing in the 1800's. I have a reprint of a book on the Pyramids written in the 1870's, and they were still guessing. I doubt if you walked up to 100 people that not one could point out the plane on the ecliptic, and probably the majority wouldn't even know what it was.

I don't believe in gods, therefore I don't believe stories allegedly told by them to man

Posted by goatman at 2008-07-27 12:48 AM

The gods are aliens--and if they have the facts--they have the facts. They knew all the planets including the asteroid belt--that puts them way ahead of us until the 1900's. I count the stories as eyewitness accounts.

Buffalobob

I am giving you information about what the ancient texts say and tying it in with modern knowledge. These ancient "myths" weren't written down by fiction writers. They were written down by the most learned people of their time. They said the gods told them--they said the gods were there. Maybe they were right.

Err, isn't that exactly how the Bible originated -- "most learned people of their time" translating what they said God told them because they said God was there.

Now what was it you were saying again about sky fairies ?

continue on with your own debate, guys...

just could not pass up that chance to make BBob eat his own words : )

later

Goatman

All your statistics may be correct. I am just telling you what the ancient texts say.

It all comes down to what you evaluate as most probable.

That most of the people on the planet believes in the half-assed edited stories that were based on these stories written thousands of years ago shows that the stories are believable to the vast majority of humans.

Califchris

The people of the bible were proven liars since the stories were stolen from the Sumerian Enuma Elish and others. The people who wrote the bible didn't say eveybody could see God. The people who wrote Enuma Elish said their Gods were walking the Streets--they were there in person--and there were lots of them. The people who wrote the bible don't say that.

Goatman

Take into account that this was 4 billion years ago and Tiamat was much closer to the outer planets. The effects of gravity could have been "troubling" to their orbits.

Califchris

Actually, the peopole who wrote the bible say they were inspired by god--not that he was there. There is no author for Genesis--the flood--the Garden of Eden--the Tower of Babel. These are all ancient stories and told much better by the ancients. They actually make sense. The Gospels of Mark, Luke-etc--were supposed to be inspired by god--but none of them say god was there telling them what to write. The Sumerians said their gods were there--in person--and anyone could, and did see them.

The people who wrote the bible didn't say eveybody could see God. The people who wrote Enuma Elish said their Gods were walking the Streets--they were there in person--and there were lots of them. The people who wrote the bible don't say that.

The Bible was written by the Apostles and they said they saw Jesus -- the Son of God. Close enough? Sadly, and ashamedly on my own part, you are actually more of a theologian than I am as far as knowing the most background and details pertaining to different religious philosophies.

BUT when the two of us both go knock, knock, knockin' on Heaven's door?
I bet I'm the one He lets in 'cause He's got a big sign saying: "No Atheists Allowed" (grin)

It's kind of sad, BBob, that you are an atheist because you are so well-versed and knowledgable about religion and religious teachings. Oh well, there's still time to convert you yet.

CC-
re: "BUT when the two of us both go knock, knock, knockin' on Heaven's door?
I bet I'm the one He lets in 'cause He's got a big sign saying: "No Atheists Allowed" (grin)"

As long as you don't go knock, knock ,knockin' on my door to share your mental breakdown for Jesus, that's all fine with me.

BetelG

Wiseass. You know I'm not some holy roller or JW come rapping on your door.
You don't hear me preaching on here. Geeze, I don't even go to church on Sundays. I'm doomed!

CC-
I didn't mean to imply that you proselytize. You don't, but some people do. (And you did just witness)

Sorry. I'll stop. No, you never are a heavy or in any way self-righteous about it, but you are a believer.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

CC:

BUT when the two of us both go knock, knock, knockin' on Heaven's door?
I bet I'm the one He lets in 'cause He's got a big sign saying: "No Atheists Allowed

Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.

Thomas Jefferson

If we give god more credit than being a despotic sycophant who expects us to grovel at his knees and tremble in his presence, I think our friend Tommy has a valid point.

CC-
My first post was harsh, but not directed at you. Sorry, I get lots of visitors who want to save me from eternal damnation and it's begun to piss me off.

Pascal's wager isn't evangelism. My bad.

BUT when the two of us both go knock, knock, knockin' on Heaven's door?
I bet I'm the one He lets in 'cause He's got a big sign saying: "No Atheists Allowed

hmmm -- If I was god and someone on earth had just died and was standing outside of the Pearly Gates, I'd be thinking, "What better way to cure this guy's atheism than to open the door to him and introduce myself?"

Ray is a bible genius. He must have read it 50 times

hmmm -- If I was god and someone on earth had just died and was standing outside of the Pearly Gates, I'd be thinking, "What better way to cure this guy's atheism than to open the door to him and introduce myself?"

Very good.

BetelG

CC-
My first post was harsh, but not directed at you.

Please don't think you chased me away -- as if you could hahaha

I was in watching this breathtaking, grip the sides of your chair, helicopter rescue of some guy who literally had one leg over Niagra Falls. The rescue team was trying to get him pulled into the helicopter before he went all the way over and he kept slipping on the ice and dropping the life ring they threw him...wow! He made it though.

hmmm -- If I was god and someone on earth had just died and was standing outside of the Pearly Gates, I'd be thinking, "What better way to cure this guy's atheism than to open the door to him and introduce myself?"

Why? He was an atheist his whole life, didn't have to follow God's teachingS of right or wrong (except to make sure he kept his sorry butt out of jail) and went on his Godless merry way until he died and then God gives him a "Sinners EZ Pass" straight into Heaven? Not real fair to the rest of us who tried to keep the faith. (grin)

Why? He was an atheist his whole life, didn't have to follow God's teachingS

I do follow god's teachings. I just don't believe in him. It is a myth that atheists are immoral.

I don't lie (well, maliciously lie), I don't steal, I don't kill, I didn't ever cheat on my spouse, I am very charitable, I help those who can't help themselves to the best of my ability, I do my best to live a good moral life.

God doesn't like this?

If he wants to send me to eternal damnation forever (can you conceive 'forever'? That's more than 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000 years times that many times, and you still aren't even a fraction of the way there) becaue I did not believe in him, but still lived a moral life and helped my fellow man -- he's not a very fair god, would you say? Especially considering he supposedly made me and the brain that makes me think and believe the way I do.

That's a worse punishment than torturing someone slowly to death for throwing a gum wrapper on the sidewalk.

I guess god doesn't believe the punishment should fit the crime, does he?

"What better way to cure this guy's atheism than to open the door to him and introduce myself?"

Only if God shut the door after He introduced himself and left the atheist sitting outside.

that wasn't very nice.

CC-
"Why? He was an atheist his whole life, didn't have to follow God's teachingS of right or wrong (except to make sure he kept his sorry butt out of jail) and went on his Godless merry way until he died and then God gives him a "Sinners EZ Pass" straight into Heaven? Not real fair to the rest of us who tried to keep the faith. (grin)"

Dear God condemn me to hell now, for I don't want to go to God's high school when I die!

GOATMAN

You may be an atheist, but you're a better 'Christian' than many of the "Christians" on this site - who can get mighty spiteful at the drop of a hat over the littlest things.

You're alright in my book.

Believe in Him or not, I don't think God will shut the door on you. I'll sneak you in if nothing else.

Goatman-
That's the best post on this blog in my recent memory.

I'll sneak you in if nothing else

LOL. Thank you, friend!

That's the best post on this blog in my recent memory.

And thank you too, betelg, my friend.

I don't lie (well, maliciously lie), I don't steal, I don't kill, I didn't ever cheat on my spouse, I am very charitable, I help those who can't help themselves to the best of my ability, I do my best to live a good moral life.

God doesn't like this?

Of course He must like it. God teaches the same lifestyle. If you're leading a good and moral life, why blow it and take a chance of not getting into heaven just because you didn't want to believe in God? No sweat off your back to just go ahead and believe. You don't have to change your lifestyle, apparently. What would you have to do differently in your life than you're doing now? Nothing.

At least by believing in God you're putting an insurance policy in your backpocket that IF you're wrong and there really is a God and a Heaven then you'll have a chance of getting in! If you don't believe in God then your goose is cooked. You were baptized a Catholic, I'll bet. So there is some hope for you. At least you won't be flying around up there in limbo where unbaptized souls go.

I'm sure you're cringing reading my simplistic explanations because I'm not very good at explaining all the religious philosophy and beliefs in great detail (as if that wasn't obvious). BuffaloBob is even better at being a theologian than I am and he's an atheist too. Guess I should have paid more attention in Sister Mary McDermott's (boy, she was hell in a habit) catechism class.

What's to lose, Goatman, by just believing in God. You won't even have to tell anyone. It can be your secret -- just between you and God.

Well, looks like it's about time for God and me to say buenas noches. (grin)

Good night all.

If aliens do exist, where are they? Seriously.

. If you're leading a good and moral life, why blow it and take a chance of not getting into heaven just because you didn't want to believe in God? No sweat off your back to just go ahead and believe.

Believing in god is not something you can or can't do like turning a light off and on. Yeah, I could suddenly start telling everyone (including myself) that I believe in god, but it would not be true. That is something that comes from the heart. I cannot change what is in my heart by mouthing or writing words. No matter how hard I try, or what I say to you and myself, I cannot bring myself to believe in god.

So non-chalantly telling me to believe in god is folly. It would be like telling me to believe in little green men. Yes, if toothpicks were forced under my fingernails, I would scream at the top of my lungs that I believe in them and sign any paper asked swearing to that. However, my heart would not agree.

You have said many times and offered much 'proof' that man never went to the moon. Edgar Mitchell and Buzz Aldrin claimed to have gone to the moon. So if you think they are lying about that, why do you think they are telling the truth about aliens?

Posted by goatman at 2008-07-25 09:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

Duh. Because them actually having gone to the moon doesn't fit his religion; but them seeing UFO's does. He probably still believes both things, and can't see the contradiction.

And, to head off the question I know is coming:

Frankly, I don't care what anyone over the age of 65 has to say about anything. Dementia is very common as you get up there. A person will otherwise be functional, even genial and wise; but they'll also be unintentionally full of shit. They might even actually believe they saw what they are saying they saw.

If Buzz had said this stuff about aliens in the 1980's, I might have listened to him. But he didn't. He did, however, give a lot of talks about how he was up on the moon in Apollo 11. Seems more likely that was true, and this alien BS isn't. We who live in the real world play with logic and odds, Bob.

A senile old man talking about aliens means absolutely nothing. A nice alien body or a UFO landing over Chicago? That's proof.

No matter how hard I try, or what I say to you and myself,
I cannot bring myself to believe in God.

*sigh*

Frankly, I don't care what anyone over the age of 65 has to say about anything. Dementia is very common as you get up there. A person will otherwise be functional, even genial and wise; but they'll also be unintentionally full of shit. They might even actually believe they saw what they are saying they saw....

Posted by soheifox at 2008-07-27

Don't be a cocky young ass. UFO's and space aliens aside, you don't have a clue
as to all you do not know in life. Come back when you've grown up and have some experience to contribute.

Don't be a cocky young ass. UFO's and space aliens aside, you don't have a clue
as to all you do not know in life. Come back when you've grown up and have some experience to contribute.

Posted by CalifChris at 2008-07-27 11:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

Actually, I'm 31 years old and capable of reading medical textbooks.

Which state that dementia sets in around those ages, and that people can still be functional, genial and even wise, but unintentionally inventing things that never happened.

Try thinking a little before you react rudely.

GOATMAN:
Believed when I was a child and dropped out of that group as a teen and into my 20's.
As I got older and wiser (some people that read my posts may disagree with that) something happened and I do believe again. I didn't have some rock bottom experience where life turned bad and I became born again. I just came to the realization that God exists and it all makes sense. And the more advanced our science knowledge becomes, the more things ring true. Genesis and the Big Bang fit right in together for one example.
You're on the right track and you can't bullshit your way past God. Good luck.

You know, unless you're willing to say that the entirety of medical research done on dementia "(doesnt) have a clue about all (they) do not know in life".

And I gotta go with Doug Stanhope on this one.. people in society like to say that people "don't know anything about life" until they reach (whatever age the speaker was 5 years ago), but the first thing you hear on the news about a scammer that is in jail is how they took advantage of all the helpless old people.

Which is it, Chris? Are persons over 65 a neverending fount of wisdom, or are they people who become afflicted with an unfortunate set of medical conditions that, in about 40% of persons reaching that age, lower their capacity for rational thought?

I'd say it's a pretty safe assumption that, odds are, the astronauts have become demented. They don't do it on purpose; but you can't pretend it doesn't happen and in a very significant number of cases. Again, I don't think Buzz Aldrin _thinks_ he's lying.

"I just came to the realization that God exists and it all makes sense."

Posted by NJDevil at 2008-07-27 11:34 AM

So, tell us about the talking snake.

Soheifox

Do you think all the only people who see these things are over 65? Are all the airline pilots over 65? How about all the police reports? Over 65 too? How about all the military reports? Is everyone over 65?

Maybe when you are 31 you are too young to put all the facts together.

"I just came to the realization that God exists and it all makes sense."

Posted by NJDevil at 2008-07-27 11:34 AM

So, tell us about the talking snake.

Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2008-07-27 11:40 AM | Reply | Flag:

Tell us more about the UFO's and pyramids, Bob.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

I don't lie (well, maliciously lie), I don't steal, I don't kill, I didn't ever cheat on my spouse, I am very charitable, I help those who can't help themselves to the best of my ability, I do my best to live a good moral life.

God doesn't like this?

I thought more about this later last night, and had to agree with you on that point. I can't think of anything I do, as far as my actions are concerned, I would do differently if I didn't believe in God. Not lying, or cheating, stealing, or being cruel and/or taking advantage of others to others - I wouldn't do it -- not because God wouldn't like it or I couldn't get into heaven -- but because it's morally ingrained in me not to do it. I'd act the same whether I believed in Him or not. So you did make a good point there.

So now I have to ask myself why else I believe. I don't know. I guess it's the lure of thinking you won't be ending life with dying but that there's something else beyond, another dimension (to put it in words you'd understand). A different life form -- the soul?

I would think someone like you -- one so into astronomy and yet unknown worlds to discover, would be one of the first to at least accept the theory another dimension(s) exists beyond this one. Don't you want to continue on past this life -- even if in some other form (or spirit)? Doesn't it bother you to think this is it? That there's nothing more for you beyond your mortal life here on Earth? Believing in God means it doesn't just end here. I think that's part of the enticement in believing. It is for me. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on belief in God. Wonder which one of us will be right? Sure hope it's me. (grin)

Do you think all the only people who see these things are over 65? Are all the airline pilots over 65? How about all the police reports? Over 65 too? How about all the military reports? Is everyone over 65?

Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2008-07-27 11:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

When did I say that ALL crackpots are over the age of 65, Bob? I only said that people over 65 tend more towards dementia.

I mean, as proof, I'm pretty sure you are under 65, Bob.

Still loving how you posted, flatout, that you believe Buzz is lying about the moon landings but not about aliens.. and yet can't see how that's evidence of religious fanatacism. Kinda like that time you sent me to a bunch of pictures of thick-lipped Brazilians and said, "See!!! they all have thin lips!!"

And you probably still believe that, also.

Soheifox

Which is it, Chris? Are persons over 65 a neverending fount of wisdom, or are they people who become afflicted with an unfortunate set of medical conditions that, in about 40% of persons reaching that age, lower their capacity for rational thought?

They are hardly doddering, irrational fools as you like to portray. Come back to me when you're 70. Sure your reflexes aren't going to be as quick and probably neither is your mind at adding a long list of figures but, sorry, life experience weighs for a lot more when actually being able to look at a probablity from all sides than what you've picked up in a few textbooks.

One thing I know -- and that's at 31 there is sooooo much you don't know.
You could have read 5000 books and it wouldn't mean a thing when it comes to experience from years of just having lived your life.

Try thinking a little before you react rudely.

The same goes for your namecalling. Don't underestimate BBob's ability to think rationally.
He may have verrry different viewpoints from the accepted norm, but senile? Hardly, my friend.

Not it's time for my FIRST cup of coffee!
I can't believe I posted on here this morning without it.
later guys

Not it's time = Now it's time

see, I did need my coffee first

Tell us more about the UFO's and pyramids, Bob.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Posted by soheifox at 2008-07-27 11:44 AM

I have no problem telling you about the pyramids and UFOs--Let's hear about that snake, and I'll answer any question you might have. Did the snake have an accent? Maybe it was a French snake.

;-)

The same goes for your namecalling. Don't underestimate BBob's ability to think rationally.

Posted by CalifChris at 2008-07-27 11:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

Sorry, Chris. I'm gonna have to say Bob has proven himself time and again to be a crackpot religious nut incapable of using anything but self-referencing reasoning when presented with facts. He's fair and open season for anyone who wants to insult his cognitive ability every time he opens his mouth.

You actually said that I can read 5 thousand books and still know nothing. Sure. According to you, the experiences of one person means a LOT more then the collected and written down experiences of hundreds of persons who study things for a living, so they could pass on the knowledge after their deaths. So a younger person can't possibly gain any knowledge by reading about things, researching and studying them? It's all moot until you reach the age of (5 years less then whatever age the speaker is)? You really should learn to respect your elders. Especially the ones that were thoughtful enough to write books to teach the younger ones.

No matter how many times you say it, it won't change the fact that your individual life experiences really don't equal the life experiences of hundreds who thought to actually write down what they found out. Plenty of people make it to reach advanced age and are still idiots... because they never realize that other people can, in fact, know things they do not.

And, when diagnosing dementia; a sudden pronounced belief in aliens that was never there the rest of their life is a pretty dang obvious symptom. Lots and lots of old people ARE doddering old fools. It's unfortunate, but it's a fact of life. Say...for example, your father might not be, great. Good for him. He should treasure the gift of a still-functioning mind

But his theoretical existence doesn't negate the fact that dementia occurrence takes a sharp upswing at 65, which more then doubles by 75. When going with reality and playing the odds, a man over the age of 75 who babbles about aliens suddenly... probably IS a doddering old fool. That's a good theory backed by science.

And the nice thing about science is, if proven wrong, the person who believes in science will then go, "Ahh, wow, I was wrong all along. Interesting. Let's find out what caused that falsehood to be thought of as correct, to try and prevent such mistakes from happening again." But someone like Bob will continue to cling to shadows. Because he is not a scientist; he is a religious zealot.

I have no problem telling you about the pyramids and UFOs--Let's hear about that snake, and I'll answer any question you might have. Did the snake have an accent? Maybe it was a French snake.

;-)

Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2008-07-27 12:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

See? He can't even realize that he is no different. No matter what you say, no matter what proof you give him. You can't even get through his head with absurdity.

Kinda like that time you sent me to a bunch of pictures of thick-lipped Brazilians and said, "See!!! they all have thin lips!!"

And you probably still believe that, also.

Posted by soheifox at 2008-07-27 11:55 AM | Reply

This is thick lips and wide noses

See? He can't even realize that he is no different. No matter what you say, no matter what proof you give him. You can't even get through his head with absurdity.

Posted by soheifox at 2008-07-27 12:16 PM |

What "proof" are you talking about? Are you mental? What do you think you have proven? Do you think the Pyramids don't exist? What are you talking about? You don't believe in the talking snake? Are you an atheist too?

Sohifox

Say...for example, your father might not be [suffering from dementia], great. Good for him. He should treasure the gift of a still-functioning mind...

I wish he could. He passed away at 74 of complications due to Alzheimers. He was a very intelligent man -- airline captain, many interests in so many subjects, and a voracious reader up until the last 3 or 4 years of his life. Very hard to watch the ravages of Alzheimers on such a brilliant mind. (May be why I'm a little touchy about riduculing and making jokes about dementia.) However, I kept in contact with some of his former Marine buddies who were sharp as a tack -- and on computers too -- until they passed away in their late 80s. As I said, not everyone fits neatly into what you've learned in your textbooks.

riduculing = ridiculing

CC

Sorry to hear about your father. On the bright side, you had him until he was 74. I lost my mother when she was only 60, and my father when he was only 66. You don't know what you got till it's gone.

But here is a thought for you. I don't believe in god but I believe in life after death.

Soheifox

Let's find out about the Olmecs! What fun!

Califchris

One of the most profound thoughts (to me) came from a book made into a movie called "Flowers for Algernon". It is about a mentally retarded man who has an operation and turns into a genius--for a while. When he was in his genius phase and learning about English and punctuation, he wrote down these words and asked his teacher to punctuate them. Want to give it a shot?

that that is is that that is not is not is that it it is

CC--actually the book was Flowers for Algernon, and the movie was Charly.

CC,

I was going to send you an e-mail, but there was no address listed on your page.

I am very sorry to hear about the loss of your father to alzheimer's. (I am sorry that I am a bit late in saying so. Somehow I missed that.)

Having loved ones with that horrible disease is having your loved ones die long before they physically do.

My mother has alzheimer's and my father is in the beginnings of dementia. They are both 80.

Long lives, yes, for that I am grateful. But when you love someone, even 80 years is not enough.

Again, my condolences, thoughts and prayers to you and yours.

PAX

P.S. I have started taking fish oil capsules recently (omega 3s). There is medical evidence to suggest that they may prevent and slow alzheimer's. They're good for the heart too.

Grendel

I am very sorry to hear about the loss of your father to alzheimer's. (I am sorry that I am a bit late in saying so. Somehow I missed that.)

Thank you. Don't want to bring out all this on here, but you may have be thinking of my Mom who passed away just four months ago. My Dad, the one with Alzheimers, passed away back in 1994 after having it for about 4 years. It was just prior to Reagan announcing his coming down with the disease. Until then it didn't get nearly as much attention so it's good Reagan brought it to national attention.

Having loved ones with that horrible disease is having your loved ones die long before they physically ...

Nancy Reagan expressed it so well when she described Alhezimers as "the long good-bye." Only those whose friends and family go thru it with a loved one can really know what those words mean and how true they are.

I have started taking fish oil capsules recently (omega 3s). There is medical evidence to suggest that they may prevent and slow alzheimer's. They're good for the heart too.

I take Norwegian Fish Oil (get it at Full O' Life vitamin store). Omega 3's are excellent. Brain food!

My mother has alzheimer's and my father is in the beginnings of dementia. They are both 80.

Don't give up hope, Grendel. So much more is now coming out with hopes for a cure -- or at least being able to halt it from advancing further. That's why I was so infuriated with the halt to stem cell research (but I won't bring politics into this now). A good paperbook book on helping you understand Alzheimers (why they act like they do with certain behavior, why they fear things like darkness or water), what to expect, how to handle it, etc.). It's called "The 36 Hour Day." It helped me and is one of the classics on books for caretakers/family/friends on dealing with someone who suffers from it.

Grendel

Here's the link to Amazon. Well worth the $10.

BBob

When he was in his genius phase and learning about English and punctuation, he wrote down these words and asked his teacher to punctuate them. Want to give it a shot?

that that is is that that is not is not is that it it is

Sure. I'll give it a try:

That, that is, is. That, that is not, is not. Is that it? It is?

geeze - took me a bit but that's my best shot at the punctuation.
Okay, don't leave me hanging. How'd I do?

CC,

Don't want to bring out all this on here, but you may have be thinking of my Mom who passed away just four months ago.

Now I understand. Again my condolences.

Don't give up hope, Grendel.

Yes, thanks for the encouragment. I never stop hoping, but I have learned to stop looking toward the future with my parents. When I am with them, I just stay in the present and enjoy what I do have with them.

Thanks for the reference and the link to The 36 Hour Day. I will check into it.

PAX

Grendel

Have you ever played music for them? Put on some cd's of the big band swing music (WW II era) and let them listen to it (or through headphones works well too). You should see how their faces light up when they hear it. Music is a real bridge to forgotten memories in the mind. Bring a cd player and some big band cd's (the slower stuff) next time you visit them. You might be pleasantly surprised at the look of recognition on their faces.

Okay, don't leave me hanging. How'd I do?

Posted by CalifChris at 2008-07-27 01:33 PM

Very good, very close. The actual punctuation was--That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is.

But the more I thought about that concept--as seemingly simple as it is, it turns out to be very deep. It means you should accept things that are facts, no matter how much you want them not to be facts. It means if something is proven false, it must be discarded no matter how much you wish it were true.

That that is--is.

That that is not--is not.

Try thinking a little before you react rudely.

Posted by soheifox at 2008-07-27 11:27 AM

Sweetie, you're lucky I was that nice considering it was early a.m. (at least here in California)
and it was written before my first cup of morning coffee hahaha,

BuffaloBob

But here is a thought for you.
I don't believe in god but I believe in life after death.

I would like to hear your thoughts on it.

BuffaloBob

"Okay, don't leave me hanging. How'd I do?

Posted by CalifChris at 2008-07-27 01:33 PM "

Very good, very close. The actual punctuation was --
That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is.

Well, I was off by two commas and one question mark.
I got the gist of it, though. That was kinda fun. : )

BuffaloBob

But the more I thought about that concept--as seemingly simple as it is, it turns out to be very deep. It means you should accept things that are facts, no matter how much you want them not to be facts. It means if something is proven false, it must be discarded no matter how much you wish it were true.

That that is--is.

That that is not--is not.

You're right, of course, when dealing with proven facts.
Still, it sure it doesn't leave any room for "wishes" or "hopes" does it?
No room for imagination, either. Just cold, hard reality.

I would like to hear your thoughts on it.

Posted by CalifChris at 2008-07-27 01:46 PM

Well, that sentence is part of it. That that is--is. I exist, and part of that known existence is electrical impulses. The brain and thoughts are electrical impulses. No electrical impulses--no life. So life--consciousness--
awareness--is somehow connected to electrical impulses. The universe is in a balanced state--we can not create anything, or destroy anything--we can only change its status--its form. The same should hold true for life. Life is a reality--a status--a fact. It just changes status--its form--its reality. Anything else would make the Universe out of balance energy wise.

When you die your life force could turn into some sort of energy wave to be received by the electrical impulse of a fertile egg in another human or animal--or travel the universe until it finds another receiver.

Who knows. That that is--is.

Just cold, hard reality.

Posted by CalifChris at 2008-07-27 01:57 PM |

True.

Aliens are only here to do the anal probing that Americans are unwilling to do themselves.

I lost my mother when she was only 60, and my father when he was only 66. You don't know what you got till it's gone.

Much too young for you to have lost them both, Bbob. And no matter what your own age when you lose your parents, it always hurts. I wish I had asked my parents so many more questions about their own lives -- their own personal experiences and thoughts -- when I had the chance. Often when you're much younger you're so wrapped up in yourself and living your own life you take it for granted your parents will always be there. Then one day you wake up and it's too late. Either their ability to remember anymore is so diminished or they're gone forever. Well, we can't go back, can we.

Well, we can't go back, can we.

Posted by CalifChris at 2008-07-27 02:13 PM

That that is not, is not.

Interesting theory you had, BuffaloBob

The universe is in a balanced state--we can not create anything, or destroy anything
-- we can only change its status--its form.

From one form while alive -- the human body
To another form after death -- the soul
Yes?

When you die your life force could turn into some sort of energy wave to be received by the electrical impulse of a fertile egg in another human or animal -- or travel the universe until it finds another receiver.

Reincarnation

That that is--is.

And there's nothing either of us can do to change it. Cold, hard reality strikes again.

Okay, have some chores to do now. It's been fun : )

BUFFALO BOB really seems to be caught up with snakes. What does your therapist think about that, BOB?

I have been reading this blog and I see that some of you are arguing over things that really have no answer as of now. The only true answer is I dont know--
You dont believe in god because there is no proof. But you believe in aliens because there is no proof that they dont exist. And that can go ether way.
I dont see how anyone can say they have the answers ether way cause no one really knows and that is the only truth.

EVIL STU:
I see that you just joined up with us a couple of months ago. What you noted above can be used to describe about 99% of all discussions found here! Sorry to disappoint you.

I have been reading this blog and I see that some of you are arguing
over things that really have no answer as of now....

Oh, we never let that stop us. : )

BUFFALO BOB really seems to be caught up with snakes. What does your therapist think about that, BOB?

Posted by NJDevil at 2008-07-27 04:16 PM

Actually, it isn't me--it's the bible that has the talking snakes. You don't find talking snakes unusual? Ever seen one?