Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Thursday, July 24, 2008

The Arctic may contain as much as a fifth of the world's yet to-be-discovered oil and natural gas reserves, according to a new U.S. Geological Survey forecast. As melting ice caps have opened up exploration, a race has begun among Arctic nations, including the United States, Russia, and Canada, for control of these resources.

Liberal Blog Advertising Network

Menu

Subscriptions

Author Info

rcade

MORE STORIES

Special Features

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in the discussion of this weblog entry should note the site's moderation policy.

Let's get drillin'. Need not to forget alternative energies, however. Any fool knows that sustainable green power would be better. Doesn't make sense to write that off as wishful thinking, if you're concerned about the long term.

Obama and the dems want to deprive us of that oil.

This would amount to 13 percent of the worlds total undiscovered oil and about 30 percent of the undiscovered natural gas.

How do they know what percentage of anything it is if it's "undiscovered".

How do they know what percentage of anything it is if it's "undiscovered".

I've always wondered that, too.

The same way they know how many undocumented workers there are.

I want to deprive us of that oil.


Obama and the dems want to deprive us of that oil.

Posted by fwthom at 2008-07-24 10:26 PM | Reply

No they don't. Osama and the Dems just want Russia to get it and sell it to us.

If Bush takes it all by force, maybe he'll let us have it for only $10/gallon. Naw, why should he, he'll ship it all to his friends in China.

Fuck you oil guzzlers. I'm on solar right now, its the natural way.

you have a solar powered car? amazing. better becareful who you tell otherwise the Big Oil & car companies will make sure you are 'vince fostered'

Fuck you oil guzzlers. I'm on solar right now, its the natural way.

Posted by Jabberwocky

Yeah, too much sun exposure does have it's risks.

Your post is a good example.

Fuck you oil guzzlers. I'm on solar right now, its the natural way.

That's great. everyone should take your example. BTW, how's that solar powered car working out for you?

www.sierraclub.org

It's early, Goatman. But please continue to obstruct. You can tell your grandchildren about it.

And not one person has complained about us stealing the oil from the cute polar bears and musk ox. Interesting.

But please continue to obstruct

???

What's that electric car link all about betelg? You do know that fossil fuels are burned to make the electricity in the car, don't you?

So, your point is . . . ?

...how's that solar powered car working out for you?

Just curious -- what do you do with a solar powered car if it rains or you live in a state where the sun doesn't always shine? Then what?

Damn, with all that oil and gas up there it looks like we are going to have to have an Actic War. We could start by invading Canada.

Although it's unlikely, it would certainly be possible to charge an electric car from a solar powered home. It would take a lot of panels, but I know several people who power their homes with nothing but solar.

. It would take a lot of panels,

That was my point. I'm glad someone caught it. At ~1 kW/6^2, it would take a lot of panels (rough head math, 1/5 acre?) to charge a car for 50 m/day driving.

Notice how the gas prices are starting to fall .....just before the elections......Of course no one is manipulating the price or anything. Just coincidence I guess.

While I'm not much of an auto mechanic, I find this to be interesting:

www.spiritofmaat.com

I wonder if it would really work? I'm willing to give it a shot when I can afford to chance my car. It's definitely interesting in theory to a mechanical layman. I know mechanics if someone wants to fund an experiment!

Regardless, these pools of oil will just extend our time in a fool's paradise. We are going to run out, and experiencing the crisis now while we still have some resources to sustain us, may provide us with some marginal time during which we can seek to utilize other energy sources. We've been living in the Golden Age of the Energy Civilization.

By the way, we've had global warming and cooling cycles before without the presence of man affecting the situation. Alternative energy? Fossil? Coal? Shale? Geothermal? See Iceland. Tidal? Solar? Kinetic of all sorts. And great new, well anyway innovative, ways to store it. Batteries not needed. And think of the magnitude of the energy supplied by water, particularly with heating and greater water carrying capacity of the atmosphere.

The ocean levels could rise meters per year. and most of the world's population is in coatal areas. Oh my. What's the median height below which 2/3rds of the world's population lives, 800 m. How high has the water level risen previously? Oh oh? Worrisome?

If the ice caps melt and water that is warmer expands? Oh my.

Well, it's our descendants who'll really need to cope with this.

How about we drill for the oil and use it while searching for alternatives. In the meantime, just have gov regulate that every corporation needs to have enough of those CO2 scrubbers to offset their emissions so we don't cause any more damage. It works by Al Gore's logic and it beats cap and trade.

Of course no one is manipulating the price or anything. Just coincidence I guess.

No coincidence. I think it has a direct relationship with Bush pulling the executive ban on drilling in the eastern Gulf and Atlantic. It was all over the news last week.

Presidents words are powerful.

I do remember they fell suddenly before the 2004 election.

Notice how the gas prices are starting to fall .....just before the elections......Of course no one is manipulating the price or anything. Just coincidence I guess.

Posted by Kenoosh

I was thinking about that as I pumped my $3.93 gas yesterday (Charlotte, NC). I wonder if Osama is going "to be found" in the upcoming weeks. Funny how smoke and mirrors can be used on such a large scale.

How about we drill for the oil and use it while searching for alternatives.

That's exactly what we should be doing. But if the prices fall, fat assed, short term memory Americans will forget and not be in favor of alternative energy anymore.

That is why if the price of gas drops, a tax should be implemented to keep it artificially high. This tax money should to towards developing alternative energy resources and better mass transportation.

Americans are too short-sighted to do this on their own.

Kenoosh

I thought the exact same thing today. Some guy was on Fox news talking about how gas might even be close to $3.50 a gallon by election day -- and acting like we should all be so grateful if it was. I thought to myself so what? Even $3 a gallon is a rip off.

Every single thing is affected by the price of oil. The products I buy at the market have to be brought here by truck so high cost of gasoline raises the price of all the items in the store.

Did you know when Bush took office in 2001 oil was around $20 a barrel? It has gone up 300% since Bush took office. NO WAY can you ever convince me the huge jack up in price was not intentional and fixed -- not that high of an increase and not with two oil boys in the White House.

GOAT

Newsworthy Flag

Your assessment is spot on!

Americans are too short-sighted to do this on their own.

Yep

I was thinking about that as I pumped my $3.93 gas...

Burbank, California -- $4.39 for regular, unleaded.

California is a joke. They put all kinds of taxes and surcharges on the price of gasoline which is why it costs so much more than in other states. Can't wait to get out of here. You're taxed from the time you open your eyes in the morning until you close them at night. California seems to have the highest cost of living outside of Hawaii and Alaska and paying 50 cents more per gallon of gas than all the rest of the country is a rip off.

It has gone up 300% since Bush took office.

CC

It's been as high as 800% recently at $160 bbl

That is why if the price of gas drops, a tax should be implemented to keep it artificially high. This tax money should to towards developing alternative energy resources and better mass transportation.

Posted by Goatman

That is a brilliant plan. I had to read it twice to see if perhaps I misread it. The only thing I would add to that list is the educating of people who do not yet realize the importance of such a plan.

If Europeans can afford it, we should be able to, also. Problem is that so many Americans don't have a clue as to what is going on anywhere but here.

money.cnn.com

So I guess Bush waved that magic wand he said he didn't have with a big smirk on his face?

California is a joke.

By CalifChris

I thought the same thing until I moved here (I left Los Feliz about a year ago). Trust me, you ALWAYS get what you pay for! At least I can still bleed Dodger Blue.

I just realized that this is the first thread I've seen since finding out about this site that has actually been amicable and not full of people pointing and screaming at each other. It's funny how I also notice for the first time a certain group of usertags not yet present.

Did you know when Bush took office in 2001 oil was around $20 a barrel? It has gone up 300% since Bush took office.

The price of light crude was about $30 when Bush took office in 2000. In 2006 the price of light crude was about $60. Then the democrats gained control of congress. Since 2006 the price has gone from $60 to $130.

So if Bush is catering to big oil, why didn't he do it when the repubs had control of congress? Or is this a tatic by the dems in order to gain control of the WH in 2008? Remember, bad news on the economy is good news for the challenger.

Here is a supporting chart for the "yeah but" crowd.
futures.tradingcharts.com

This tax money should to towards developing alternative energy resources and better mass transportation...

I could almost go along with your plan IF the ones put in charge of developing alternative energy resources are not the oil companies. We now give them billions in tax breaks and for research and development but NO business with half a brain is going to develop something that would eventually put them out of business. It's ludicrous to think they'd invent something which revenue away from their own line of business.

However, if you give the job of developing alternative energy resources (using the tax money you spoke of) to a non-political, non-biased, organization of scientists and researchers whose sole purpose is to develop alternative energy then I might consider it. I firmly believe that big oil will not allow, nor really look into, the developing any other kind of alternative energy until their own oil reserves are no longer productive and they have no other choice. That's why any funding (with our tax money) for research into other types of energy has to be guaranteed to go only to those with no conflict of interest.

which revenue away = which took revenue away

Posted by Goatman


That is a brilliant plan.


I can't believe Goatman posted it. If a so called liberal had brought that up around here, they'd be getting called Marxist from several posters by now.

USAMERICAN

One thing I've never seen anywhere else is not the number of film and music biz meetings that take place at Dodger Stadium during day games, but what happens after the meeting is over.

I'd see guys I knew in both biz's every day game. They'd only stay an inning or three then boogie on out. By the hundreds.

No coincidence. I think it has a direct relationship with Bush pulling the executive ban on drilling in the eastern Gulf and Atlantic. It was all over the news last week.
One factor. Another factor is the investigations into the trading. Another factor, probably the biggest is lower demand due to the high cost.

That's why any funding (with our tax money) for research into other types of energy has to be guaranteed to go only to those with no conflict of interest.

Posted by CalifChris

Therein lies the rub. There will always be someone with a vested interest in that position.

As much as my mom hates the fact that I am skeptical toward human behavior, I would have trouble not thinking about the payoffs that would likely take place by greedy investors to ensure they turn a profit.

WHATSLEFT

As soon as the price drops people drive more again, and so our dependence on oil never breaks.

I think high prices are the only way for us to wean off fossil fuels eventually.

One thing I haven't heard anyone talking about is mass transit and high speed trains. You can travel 220 miles an hour in Europe and Japan on trains. It's a lot more convenient with all the time it takes these days getting to the airport and on the flight - for starters

One thing I've never seen anywhere else is not the number of film and music biz meetings that take place at Dodger Stadium during day games, but what happens after the meeting is over.

I'd see guys I knew in both biz's every day game. They'd only stay an inning or three then boogie on out. By the hundreds.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY

I never understood that, either. All I know is that you can buy seats up top for $6, wait till about the 3rd or 4th inning and then casually walk down to the $200 seats by telling the guys in the stairs you are going to see "The Art of the Game." I loved the fact that people didn't stay long!! Try it out next time you're there. I guarantee a good time in the field level.

You can travel 220 miles an hour in Europe and Japan on trains.

High speed trains should be a no brainer on the east coast, and should have been done years ago. The only reason I can think of that it hasn't been done yet, is that there's no profit in it for certain interests.

USAMERICAN

Ya, it's a hoot. I don't live in L.A. anymore, but always make a game when I'm out during the BB season. My first priority after meetings et al are done is to get some quality boogie boarding in though LOL

The only reason I can think of that it hasn't been done yet, is that there's no profit in it for certain interests.
Would that be the certain interests of the owners of the rail roads, or would the govm't just take over the private rail roads or build all new rail lines? Maybe they could run it like the successful Amtrak? Damn Bush's fault.

The only reason I can think of that it hasn't been done yet, is that there's no profit in it for certain interests.

Another reason is the congress has never approved subisdies for the trains. They have to build and maintain their own tracks and infrastructure. The airlines, OTOH get federal assistance in airports, ATC, etc.

MIDTOWN

Going way back here in the U.S., John D Rockefeller and Henry Ford bought up every single trolley car system in the country and tore up the tracks.

They also bought up of miles of passenger rail tracks routes and replaced them with a different guage standard cars couldn't run on.

If in doubt look it up for yourself. Now, why do you think they did that? Hmmmmmmm?

With the exception of San Fransisco - where autos didn't have the power to make the big hills.

Going way back here in the U.S., John D Rockefeller and Henry Ford bought up every single trolley car system in the country and tore up the tracks.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY

I cannot believe you posted this. I was just thinking about this this afternoon. Was it in another thread recently or a movie? Where the hell did I read this?

USAMERICAN

I saw a documentary on that a few years ago

Great minds think alike LOL

"That is why if the price of gas drops, a tax should be implemented to keep it artificially high. "

Well, I've been in favor of high gas taxes for decades. We shouldn't wait for prices to drop though; we should start phasing in gas taxes immediately, maybe 10 cents a month for the next 3 or 4 years.

Since it's a regressive tax, some method of rebating it or cutting other regressive taxes would be appropriate.

Of course, there's not a politician with the balls to call for this, so it's purely academic.

Since it's a regressive tax,

How do you figure it is a regressive tax? Rich people drive less effecient monster cars, boats, fly more, etc. Poor people are more likely to not own cars and use public transportation.

While we've been busy building highways and bridges in Iraq:

Federal highway trust fund is running out of gas

All sales taxes are regressive taxes.

All sales taxes are regressive taxes.

Wrong. A sales tax is a flat tax.

A regressive tax is a tax imposed in such a manner that the tax rate decreases as the amount subject to taxation increases

en.wikipedia.org

Wrong. Everyone knows that sales taxes are regressive. A flat tax is a regressive tax. I'm not going to waste time convincing you otherwise, because I'm sure you would be willing to make a hundred hair-splitting posts on the subject.

Of death and taxes, only death is for sure.

It depends on your acountant.

Wrong. Everyone knows that sales taxes are regressive.

Wikipedia is editable by users for errors. Go for it.1

You wikipedia article did not contradict me, so why should I edit it?

It supports me, and you say I'm wrong. That's why.

A regressive tax is a tax imposed in such a manner that the tax rate decreases as the amount subject to taxation increases

This means the poor would pay X % for taxes whereas the rich would pay < X % for taxes.

Last post, since I don't like wasting time on idiots. A regressive tax is a tax that takes a larger percentage from low-income people than from high-income people. Obviously that's the case with poor and rich people filling their gas tanks.

Good night.

A regressive tax is a tax that takes a larger percentage from low-income people than from high-income people.

That's right.

A sales tax OTOH takes the same percentage from the poor as the rich. Sales tax in Neiman Marcus is the same as it is in WalMart.

DO NOT WORRY Your holy leaders will not allow oil drilling by the US in the artic. How fucking stupid can you get? You should know Sierra club, pew et all would NEVER permit that.

So sit back and think al gore and barack osama. They can get us off of internal combustion something like 10 years. That's a FACT they promised. And the hell with exploit resources. Besides developing oil wells takes at least 10 years. Funny isn't it in one case 10 years is worth it, in the other why try?

Let Russia, canada, and opec do that dirty work, we're above that.

"This tax money should to towards developing alternative energy resources and better mass transportation." GOAT

I'll go along with the mass transit funding. I recently took round-trip Amtrack across NY. It was only a half hour longer than driving and a little cheaper than buying gas. Saved 600 miles wear and tear on me and the truck.

BUT... Oh mein Gott! Give pols more money for R+D...are you crazy ??????????
When one allows gov/pols mo' money it pretty much goes to buy votes, person influence, and personal wealth for THE pols. IE....ethanol.


ps... Sorry about the "Oh mein Gott!" What with Germany being so much a part of the POTUS campaign I fear I have succumbed to their influence also.


"Fuck you oil guzzlers. I'm on solar right now, its the natural way."

Posted by Jabberwocky


BS

I think all this solar stuff is so really neat. I'm sure a solar jet is just around the corner.

I'm sure Obama will be converting AirForce One to solar.

"That is why if the price of gas drops, a tax should be implemented to keep it artificially high. This tax money should to towards developing alternative energy resources and better mass transportation."

I totally agree with Goatman and so what if it is a slightly regressive tax, it is a step towards energy independence.

Bullshit. Corporations just do not want to work for it. They are modern day robber barrons.
They dont want to really explore for more. But then, they could really care less.
They've been demanding anwr for 20 years. And under the costliest conditions.

You've got 43+ million acres you havent touched, barely even looked at.

Congress should think long and hard. They are compelled to force corporations to participate in our national interests. They already hold the priviledge of person-hood within our society, but wish to make no sacrifice for the greater good.
As a society, we the people, have an absolute right to our resources and access to them.

The oil companies are holding us, We the People, of the United States of America, hostage over ANWR.

That is a national security threat of the highest order.

Congress, The President, the Candidates and the Oil Companies should hear this loud and clear.

What say you?

If you listen to the Man-Made-Global-Warming proponents, conservatives must be a pretty callous lot.
In fact, they must hate their own children. After all, according to these advocates we "deniers" are selling out the future of the planet just to get a few bucks. That's funny, because according to the research available conservatives are much more fertile than liberals - in fact, almost 50% more likely to have children. Yet we know that it is conservatives and not liberals who are most likely to doubt the arguments for man made global warming. And by far they are less likely to call for
massive intervention in the economy to prevent the "inevitable" destruction of the biosphere by mankind's profligate use of fossil fuels.

What's going on here? Are conservatives really so callous as to be willing to sacrifice their children's future, or even their lives, just to drive a bigger car and use
incandescent light bulbs instead of compact fluorescents? Are conservatives willing to sell their children's future for a few bucks from big oil, big coal, or big auto
manufacturers? Or to save a buck or two on the price of gas? Of course not. What's really going on here is that the debate over global warming is not an argument about the
future of the environment, but about the future of the
economy.

It is about who controls the means of production - people or the government (or "government sponsored entities").
The fight over climate change is primarily a fight about whether big government should control everything from the largest to the most minute aspects of economic activity,
or whether our economy should remain at least relatively free. After all, control of energy production and use is tantamount to control of the entire economy.

This is the same battle we have been fighting since before Karl Marx declared that ownership of the means of production should be socialized and incorporated into the State.
The Left says yes to socialism in some form or another, the right says no: freedom and free markets are inseparable. In this context consider Al Gore's proposal to completely eliminate fossil energy from the American economy in ten years-ten years!-at the cost of trillions of dollars and just about all our freedom. Imagine what it would take to
replace about 80% of our electricity generation with zero carbon sources-and more importantly, how much government interference in our economy it would justify.

No serious person who understands our energy production believes that Gore's goal is achievable or even desirable. But that's not the point. The point is that setting this
goal and committing all the resources of the government to achieving it would require a massive restructuring of the U.S. economy, massive government subsidies and penalties, and the picking of winners and losers in the marketplace (and just who do you think would be raking in those trillions of dollars?).
All in all pursuing such a goal would be the greatest leap forward for socialism in the United States since the New Deal. Following Gore's prescription would make the
government interference in the economy during the New Deal look miniscule by comparison.

So why have conservatives been-to a great extent-on the losing side of this argument in the political realm? After all, the political (if not scientific) "consensus" behind
Man Made Global Warming is strong enough that both major party candidates for President support making massive changes to the American economy to address it. Conservatives have been, I believe, too afraid as a group to fire back when the so-called "Progressives" accuse them of selling out the environment and our children's future
for a few bucks in their pocket today.

Yet how hard would it be? Conservatives have more children and grandchildren than liberals. They in fact have a much greater stake in the future of the planet than a dual-income-no-kids liberal couple. And in reality the average conservative has little or no real financial interest in the fossil fuel industry beyond the need to put fuel
in our cars and turn on the lights in our homes.

Can the same be said of the leading liberal proponents of the idea behind man-made global warming? How often do we hear from the proponents of the global warming hypothesis
about how there is money to be made in moving to a carbon-neutral economy? Who do you think is investing heavily in biofuels, solar and wind power, and all the other Rube
Goldberg schemes being pushed to "solve" the current "crisis?" Who is making money off all those carbon-offset credits and the like? So tell me: who, really, is willing to sell our future down the river for a few bucks? Or at least sell out our freedoms for a chance to grab control over the energy
backbone of the entire economy?

The bottom line is pretty easy to understand: if the proponents of radically changing our economy get their way they achieve two of their most cherished goals: moving our
economy dramatically toward socialism, and getting rich off of the inevitable government mandates and subsidies required at the same time.
So getting back to the original question: do conservatives hate their children? Of course not. But do liberals hate Conservatives' children? You be the judge.

Considering how fuel prices are effecting food prices and everything else the Republicans seem willing to penalize all Americans for their own political agenda. Considering some folks are already going hungry it is sort of disgusting but typical for them.

Posted by danni at 2008-07-24 10:09 AM | Reply
"That is why if the price of gas drops, a tax should be implemented to keep it artificially high"

I totally agree with Goatman and so what if it is a slightly regressive tax, it is a step towards energy independence.

Posted by danni at 2008-07-25 08:18 AM

How would you reconcile the two? Other than destroying people with mo'government handouts?

"Conservatives have more children and grandchildren than liberals."

Where do you get this statistic??

""But do liberals hate Conservatives' children? You be the judge.""

This is so stupid it's funny.

** Arctic May Contain 90 Billion Barrels of Oil **

.....big deal......there's a half million floating around the Mississippi just off New Orleans right now......

......I did'nt see any oil companies on the news,rushing to pick it up......

Fuck you oil guzzlers. I'm on solar right now, its the natural way.

Posted by Jabberwocky

I want to know how you get that into the gas tank in your car.

I'll bet it works great at night too.

90 Billion Barrels! That will last us a whole 3 years! Awesome! Maybe we can just nuke the Arctic to get all that stupid snow and ice out of the way and get to the oil faster! Yeeeeeee hawwwwww. I'm gonna go let my Hummer just idle in the driveway to celebrate.

Drill it.

Fuck those fuzzy sons of bitches sitting on top of all that oil. (penguins and polar bears)

If we drill in the Arctic we may ruin the beaches.

Drill, Build Nuclear Plants, invest in alternatives, Wind, Solar. Do it all. When you have a problem like this you do everything.

I too would not be opposed to some sort of tax that keeps the price artifcially high. My one stipulation would be that *all* the money go to research and that the congress could not be involved in picking which technologies.

If we have billions of dollars the lobbyists will buy the politicians and we will be in another mess like they made with Ethanol.

If the libs are who they want people to believe they are, then they will do everything to bring down the price of gas as the people who are hurt most are the people with less who they want us to believe they are looking out for.

Green Issues a Tough Sale at the Newsstand

Last week, The New York Times noted that the advertising industry is pulling back from green-themed marketing, having "grasped the public's growing skepticism over ads with environmental messages.

And advertisers' concerns are buttressed by the recent sales figures for magazines that have published a "Green Issue" this year. Time's Earth Day issue was the newsweekly's third-lowest-selling issue of 2008 so far,
www.portfolio.com

"I too would not be opposed to some sort of tax that keeps the price artifcially high. My one stipulation would be that *all* the money go to research and that the congress could not be involved in picking which technologies."
--SAWDUST

LOL!!!!! FF for you! HAHAHAHAHAAHA

Any dipshit that thinks the politicians wouldn't just take those taxes and use them to further their own agendas is beyond help. Yes, by all means, let's just artificially jack up gas to $10/gallon. Then we'll sit back, broke as hell, and watch our dear leaders squander our hard earned cash!

"Any dipshit that thinks the politicians wouldn't just take those taxes and use them to further their own agendas is beyond help."

Of course there would be some misdirection of funds but at least we would eventually build a mass transit system which would certainly serve us better than rebuilding Iraq. The people who build it would earn good money too and help rebuild our economy.

I like Goat's idear too. The problem is that it hinges on the prospect that soon the price of gas will drop enough to levy additional taxes. I think that's a fallacy. Americans will pay 4 bucks a gallon whilst keeping relatively normal driving habits. That had been determined. So the price of gas will remain at least that high. Prices don't drop during a dollar plunge. We will never see 2 or even 3 dollar gas again.


kc101,
When you post the material of other people and don't provide a link to the original, don't credit the author, and try to trick people into thinking you wrote it; that's plagiarism. It's cheap, disrespectful, and illegal, not to mention it brings trouble to our nobel leader, bin al Zarcade.
Provide original material, links, or STFU.

"Of course there would be some misdirection of funds but at least we would eventually build a mass transit system which would certainly serve us better than rebuilding Iraq. The people who build it would earn good money too and help rebuild our economy."

Posted by danni

How would the poor and middle class suffer the consequences of ALL of their needs and goods becoming much more expensive due to the cost of gas while we wait for all of those mass transit systems to be built? How long do you think it will take to build mass transit systems across the entire country? Why can't the taxes be raised somewhere else? Why does it have to hammer the everyday schmo?

Goat,

A regressive tax system does not mean and likely would not result in low income earners paying more taxes than the wealthy, only that the effective tax rate relative to income or consumption would be a larger tax burden to low income earners. - Wiki

I think this is what nulli is refering too. But the arguement against it being regressive is that income corrolates highly to miles driven. He imagines that everyone uses the same amount of fuel.
www.eia.doe.gov

There are other ideas such as the Europeans also have a progressive tax on vehicles based upon displacement. Higher displacement higher tax.

I go back and forth on the gas tax. Ever hear of the boiling frog...

They say that if you put a frog into a pot of boiling water,
it will leap out right away to escape the danger.
But, if you put a frog in a kettle that is filled with water that is cool and pleasant,
and then you gradually heat the kettle until it starts boiling,
the frog will not become aware of the threat until it is too late.
The frog's survival instincts are geared towards detecting sudden changes.

Perhaps SHOCK AND AWE is better then just raising the baseline slowly, in order to change behavior.....


CHILLY: Anchorage could hit 65 degrees for fewest days on record.

By GEORGE BRYSON

Published: July 24th, 2008 12:10 AM

The coldest summer ever? You might be looking at it, weather folks say.

Right now the so-called summer of '08 is on pace to produce the fewest days ever recorded in which the temperature in Anchorage managed to reach 65 degrees.

That unhappy record was set in 1970, when we only made it to the 65-degree mark

www.adn.com

cancerfocus.net
Where did all the Tobacco Settlement Money Go????????


Trust us...we are from the goverment!

"A regressive tax system does not mean and likely would not result in low income earners paying more taxes than the wealthy"


Have you watched any news lately. It is full of sob stories ...no vacations, no family trips to grannies, ...middle class people cutting back...doing with out food and necessities for gas so they can afford the commute to work.

Are they lying? Exaggerating?
I am just shocked...shocked!

How long do you think it will take to build mass transit systems across the entire country?

Posted by LiveorDie

The mass-transit system can be considered already in-place. Nothing says that a transit system has to be on rails; buses can use the roads that are already built and while even the greenest bus America has only gets about 10 mpg, think about how that average jumps when the bus is carrying 50 people. Rather impressive.

www.chicagotribune.com

R8RH8R.. go suck your self. since you cant make an argument about it, you resort to attacking , typical loser response.. so STFU and go back to watching CNN

"How would the poor and middle class suffer the consequences of ALL of their needs and goods becoming much more expensive due to the cost of gas while we wait for all of those mass transit systems to be built?"

Actually when I went to the grocery last night I was thinking about that very thing. The cost of transportation it eating into our grocery budgets. I was thinking what if we gave a special tax credit to trucking companies to help offset their extra cost in fuel? Instead of each of us receiving $600 we perhaps should have used that money to "bail out" the trucking industry which in turn could then supply food, etc. cheaper. Just a thought.

What's going on here? Are conservatives really so callous as to be willing to sacrifice their children's future, or even their lives, just to drive a bigger car and use
incandescent light bulbs instead of compact fluorescents? Are conservatives willing to sell their children's future for a few bucks from big oil, big coal, or big auto
manufacturers? Or to save a buck or two on the price of gas?

Posted by KC101

In a word....



Yes!
I've never met a conservative who wouldn't sell his daughter into prostitution, his wife into slavery, and his mother into Medical experimentation-just to make a few extra bucks.

"Just a thought."

Posted by danni

Not a bad one.


If we drill in the Arctic we may ruin the beaches.

Posted by danni

The artic has beaches?

Yes!
I've never met a conservative who wouldn't sell his daughter into prostitution, his wife into slavery, and his mother into Medical experimentation-just to make a few extra bucks.

Posted by frankf55 at 2008-07-25 01:29 PM

Thats not true but I would do it with your daughter, wife and mother. And would not even charge that much.

Kerrin,

"Have you watched any news lately. It is full of sob stories ...no vacations, no family trips to grannies, ...middle class people cutting back...doing with out food and necessities for gas so they can afford the commute to work. "

This proves the point doesn't it? The wealthy will pay this tax, the poor will avoid it......

Don't just "snip" parts without understanding..

"Are they lying? Exaggerating?
I am just shocked...shocked!"

I am not, I hear more about murders...in other words desparation sells news. You won't see positive stories about how people are coping, by say riding light rail as I have done. No it wouldn't make news would it.

"I was thinking what if we gave a special tax credit to trucking companies to help offset their extra cost in fuel? " - Danni

Nice out of the box thinking, we don't always agree, but I like the creativity :)

Let's kill the seals! The seals are terrorists! and then the speculators will raise the price of oil because it is too far away and too expensive to drill!

next.

1 gallon [US, liquid] = 3.78 litres..right now where i live we are paying 1.42 per litre...thats what...5.36 a gallon I'm paying. It hasnt stopped me from going to the lake and boating..or driving to the lake every weekend...and it will not force me to cut back on my sledding come this winter.

You can all quit yer whining about gas prices now.

YEAH!

You "Cant Trust Government" Fools would Drill a Hole in your own Head if this G O V E R N M E N T told there may be-- Oil in there!

What the fuck! Why are my quotes being substituted with hyphens in my final posts!
They look fine in the preview but then get hosed when posted!


This shits getting annoying!

R8RH8R.. go suck your self

I wish I could, thief. Even attended some yoga sessions with the lil lady. Didn't help.

since you cant make an argument about it, you resort to attacking

LoL
...says the plagiarists who stole someone else's argument and whose only original material consists of an attack against me!
But you do have a small point. I didn't refute that illogical rant you stole and pasted. I'll get right on that and send a response to David Strom, the author, at wingnut.com.

Drilling for new oil is only a stop-gap solution. It's not going eliminate our need for foreign oil. It may temporarily reduce our dependency on it, that's all. Their is no supply trouble. Oil prices are not going to go down in price. US corporations don't have any incentive for lower prices, they are part of the cartel.

90 billion barrels is almost 5 times the current proven reserves, however I take what the USGS says with a grain of salt since the Bush administration has put so much influence over other government agencies. This is most likely a politicized statement to coincided with other policies. For example, the Enron conspiracy with the faux California energy crises during 2000-2001, the administration used that as reasoning for opening up oil drilling as well.

We need real energy policy reforms for the future that will not not come under this administration, such as those introduced by Jimmy Carter. With that said, I have nothing against drilling for more oil as long as the states agrees to it, it should be a state right, not a federal law.

"You won't see positive stories about how people are coping, by say riding light rail "


Charlotte and Triad news have countless stories on this.


"This proves the point doesn't it? The wealthy will pay this tax, the poor will avoid it......"

No.
Cutting back on groceries and necessities to buy gas for work is hardly avoiding a regressive gas tax.The po' still have to get to work.
Giving up a once a year vac is a very small thing.


One thing I haven't heard anyone talking about is mass transit and high speed trains. You can travel 220 miles an hour in Europe and Japan on trains.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2008-07-25 12:17 AM | Reply

Trains already exist where they make sense -- on the east coast and in congested cities like Chicago and San Francisco.

You cannot compare Europe and Japan with the US. Europe and Japan are compact place with metro areas near each other. That's why they have trains: You can move between major cities in a few hours.

Nobody is going to ride a train from Minneapolis to Atlanta. That's what airplanes are for.

The only reason I can think of that it hasn't been done yet, is that there's no profit in it for certain interests.

Posted by Whatsleft at 2008-07-25 12:28 AM | Reply

Cute, vague reference to the Dark Forces. Numbskull.

Right now a ticket on Amtrack from Chicago to New Orleans gets a federal subsidy of about $120. Every damn ticket, and Amtrack still loses money.

It would be cheaper if the government just ran a charter flight every day and hauled passengers for free.

Yes . NPR had a whole story on two women that could no longer afford meat. It was a real sad tale...until you see a picture of the women in question and hear the full story (not on the NPR web site)

sweetness-light.com

Their solution - have the daughter get knocked up so that THEY CAN GET MORE GOVERNMENT MONEY!

This is what your taxes are REALLY paying for and what happens with social programs. If they did not have the government money coming in they would have to get a job, maybe have to walk to work, which would reduce their weight and make them healthier.

Yes..more social programs and hand outs for these fine examples.

Looking at the picture, I wonder how she knows there isn't a child hidden under that blubber?

Oh yeah, nobody would fuck that!

Oh my goodness...you don't think....er suppose....ah well Ohio would be close.

Just where is Larry?

"Oh yeah, nobody would fuck that!"

Goat,
Don't be so sure. Some people will fuck anything:
----------


Fuck those fuzzy sons of bitches sitting on top of all that oil. (penguins and polar bears)

Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2008-07-25 10:25 AM | Reply

Don't know about that but I'm prone to blowing a seal every now and then.

Does the seal smile when you're done?

(sorry, oorah, no offense meant -- but you did leave yourself wide open there! *grin*)

Right now a ticket on Amtrack

Leave it to Vern to compare Amtrak to 220 mph commuter trains. Did you get some help from your calculator for that, dumb-shit?

Amtrak is what happens when you let government-hating conservatives govern. World class high speed bullet trains in Japan it what happens when you ignore the ideology of free-market fundamentalists. Not to mention, high speed broadband far superior to the U.S, 5 to 10 times faster, and for the same reason.

Correction:

TOKYO -- Americans invented the Internet, but the Japanese are running away with it.

Broadband service here is eight to 30 times as fast as in the United States -- and considerably cheaper. Japan has the world's fastest Internet connections, delivering more data at a lower cost than anywhere else, recent studies show.

Accelerating broadband speed in this country -- as well as in South Korea and much of Europe -- is pushing open doors to Internet innovation that are likely to remain closed for years to come in much of the United States.

The speed advantage allows the Japanese to watch broadcast-quality, full-screen television over the Internet, an experience that mocks the grainy, wallet-size images Americans endure.

Ultra-high-speed applications are being rolled out for low-cost, high-definition teleconferencing, for telemedicine -- which allows urban doctors to diagnose diseases from a distance -- and for advanced telecommuting to help Japan meet its goal of doubling the number of people who work from home by 2010.

"For now and for at least the short term, these applications will be cheaper and probably better in Japan," said Robert Pepper, senior managing director of global technology policy at Cisco Systems, the networking giant.

Japan has surged ahead of the United States on the wings of better wire and more aggressive government regulation, industry analysts say.

"Fuck those fuzzy sons of bitches sitting on top of all that oil. (penguins and polar bears)" - VERNON

There are no penguins in the Arctic.

"Yet the story of how Japan outclassed the United States in the provision of better, cheaper Internet service suggests that forceful government regulation can pay substantial dividends.

The opening of Japan's copper phone lines to DSL competition launched a "virtuous cycle" of ever-increasing speed, said Cisco's Pepper. The cycle began shortly after Japanese politicians -- fretting about an Internet system that in 2000 was slower and more expensive than what existed in the United States -- decided to "unbundle" copper lines.

For just $2 a month, upstart broadband companies were allowed to rent bandwidth on an NTT copper wire connected to a Japanese home. Low rent allowed them to charge low prices to consumers -- as little as $22 a month for a DSL connection faster than almost all U.S. broadband services.

In the United States, a similar kind of competitive access to phone company lines was strongly endorsed by Congress in a 1996 telecommunications law. But the federal push fizzled in 2003 and 2004, when the Federal Communications Commission and a federal court ruled that major companies do not have to share phone or fiber lines with competitors. The Bush administration did not appeal the court ruling.

"The Bush administration largely turned its back on the Internet, so we have just drifted downwards," said Thomas Bleha, a former U.S. diplomat who served in Japan and is writing a history of how that country trumped the United States in broadband."

www.washingtonpost.com

Funny how all that Arctic ice just cracked open and exposed all that oil. It was as if angels played their harp, and it was chocolate ice cream for everyone.


Obama and the dems want to deprive us of that oil.

Posted by fwthom at 2008-07-24 10:26 PM


who was again it that deprived you of your capacity to think?

Anyway, let's burn more oil, so we can melt the ice and then drill for more oil...

I saw this article and hoped that others see this and bring it to the attention of their communities. It will kill two birds with one stone. Get rid of unsightly landfills and provide a source of fuel almost immediately. Could we run out of this? Maybe if we don't provide even refuse.

www.nytimes.com

That is why if the price of gas drops, a tax should be implemented to keep it artificially high. This tax money should to towards developing alternative energy resources and better mass transportation.

Posted by Goatman

That is a brilliant plan. I had to read it twice to see if perhaps I misread it. The only thing I would add to that list is the educating of people who do not yet realize the importance of such a plan.

If Europeans can afford it, we should be able to, also. Problem is that so many Americans don't have a clue as to what is going on anywhere but here.

Posted by USAmerican

And thoes of us in the west where there won't be any public (mass) transit get screwed again. We end up subdsiding your daily comute, no thanks.

No more raising of taxes!

How will we pay for war?

Love the ignorant comments about how solar can't save us.
40 minutes of sun striking the earth is equal to all the energy consumed in the world--in a year.
You want to put it in your tank, get an electric car.
Cover the rooftops of the US with American made PVs.
1/4 of the roof space would power the country.
Wind, geothermal, hydro and nuclear power would augment the places which are less ideal for solar.
Sitting here in the rainforest, typing this on a computer connected to the internet and jamming tunes on my stereo, during the rainy season where clouds are constant, I'm still kicking out 2kw an hour.
Efficient machines wasting less energy, three nice sun frost fridges keeping the beer cold.
Off the grid by 30km.
Super oxygenated air because of all the trees.
Pyrolysis via biomass, making char or terra preta, and fixing nitrogen, sequestering carbon and making my fields far more fertile. Inexpensive and genius, a nod to the pioneers down here who aren't talking about it, but doing it.
[Peels home grown banana, sips shade grown coffee.]
Hey, look, a monkey!
Nature, man, in balance.

So, it appears, with other Nations claims, we have access to about 1/3 of it. Also the reported cost per barrel would be $30 to drill there, versus $2 per barrel in Iraq and Africa.

Reg, the only problem with your logis is how do you store the stuff for a rainny day?

There is no one energy source. We have to use all the energy sources we have. Some are good for one thing and some are good for others. None are good for all.

Batteries. Using AGM ones now, but lead acid still work well, a little more maintenance. Storage is definitely the weak link, however. Lots of energy loss there, and while my panels will last 30+ years, my batteries probably won't go more than 7.

Put 1/10 of the money spent on oil exploration into developing solar and battery technology (which doesn't have to store solar energy exclusively) and we'd create so many new jobs and innovations that there would be no energy or economic crisis in 10 years. Of course, I think a lot more money should be invested and dirty fuels should be duly "punished" by accounting for their true cost (take GW out of the equation and look simply at pollution, clearly there is a huge, unaccounted cost there).

Yes, there will be a transition period. Yes, there are other energy sources. But unless it's pollution free and renewable, should it be a goal? No, it should be a bridge to the day when we don't think about energy because the principles of efficiency, collection, and storage will be built into every appliance, structure, vehicle, etc.

Ultimately, it's not even a "green" agenda, though that's a happy byproduct. It's about efficiency. And that's good for business.

Just in case anyone wants the truth about why the Dems are so against drilling, it is simple. They want the high gas prices. It has nothing to do with environmental issues, that is just a lame ass excuse. High gas prices, hurting economy, makes them look good. As long as they can use it to their advantage, you bet your ass they are going to be against drilling.

Comments are closed for this entry.

Drudge Retort

Home | News | Comments | User Blogs | Nooner | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | Copyright 2010 World Readable