Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Monday, July 21, 2008

John Nichols: Running for president is a perilous endeavor. Candidates make mistakes. And Barack Obama is making a serious mistake this weekend. As he tours Afghanistan, the senator from Illinois says he is more interested in listening than doing a lot of talking. That would be good if it were the case. Unfortunately, Obama is busy making promises.

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"The Democrats send-more-troops proposal is precisely the same as that of Republican John McCain.

And it is precisely wrong.

Dramatic increases in the US troop presence in Afghanistan in the past year have done nothing to stabilize the situation on the ground in the country. In fact, US military officials acknowledge that attacks in eastern Afghanistan the sector of the country where the majority of US forces currently operate are up by 40 percent so far in 2008.

So, too, as recent events remind us, are US and Afghan death tolls.

More troops will not cure what ails Afghanistan."

Afghanistan is not Iraq. And vice-versa.

Afghanistan is not Iraq and we did not invade because of non-existent WMDs or a non-existent relationship with Al Quaeda. Yes, the job of subduing our enemies in Afghanistan is a difficult one but it is one that I have supported since before we invaded and that I continue to support. Even if our allies abandon us I think we should finish the job which will not be finished until we destroy Al Quaeda, even if that means pushing into Pakistan. They are a scourge on the civilized world and probably Bush's biggest CRIME was to take his eye off of them and shift it to Iraq, which posed no threat for the US or anyone else. Probably BArrack Obama and us libs will have to do the real work which the Bushies weren't willing to do to really rid the world of large terrorist networks like Al Quaeda but we can't do it by operating as if the Iraq invasion was part of that.
When corporations aren't running the "War on Terror" we might actually go after terrorists.

"Afghanistan is not Iraq."

It might turn into Obama's Iraq, if he does what he says.

Afghanistan is a strategic BLUNDER. That's where Osama bin Laden beat the Russians, and ended up with an army of 35,000 hardened mujahadeen. He'll topple Pakistan before this is all over and HAVE WMDs.

Join the pristine jihad. Jihadi tourism is the region's next big business...

If your not prepared to take on the mujahadeen IN PAKISTAN, you're just helping Osama build and train his army. EVERY idiot in the Middle East knows that. The only one who doesn't is Barrack Obama.

"If your(sic) not"

Fascinating.

It cannot make three words work together yet it lives.

There are probly some spelling errors, 2. Quick, find 'em, maybe then you'd be qualified to be my secretary.


*** Afghanistan is a strategic BLUNDER. That's where Osama bin Laden beat the Russians,
Posted by Farmer_John ****

......because the CIA armed Bin Laden with stinger missles......

......lets remember that we financed the birth of Al Qaida and the Taliban to counter the Russians...

......we made the mess.....now we have to clean it up......

We made the mess? LOL! THAT is a stretch. The Russians made the mess. Let THEM clean it up!

...and you don't think the Ruskies or the French will sell Osama Stinger equivalents? Are you on drugs?

The idea that political boundaries pose constraints for Islamics who have a global view of jihad is silly.

The "jihad" in Afghanistan could never be maintained without recipt of assistance from outside forces, and provision of sanctuaries where enemy combatants could rest, regroup, and redeploy their forces.

China is averse to an Islamic build-up due to the problems it has in Sinkiang in pacifying the Muslims there. China is in a state of great internal unrest and disruption, and is an unlikely ally of the jihadists. Now Russia with a sense of grievance, is another matter.

Of coure, the Islamic states are bound to provide support for the jihadists. Pakistan is actively supporting the terrorists in their actions.

It appears that Obama might have correctly observed that the Pakistanis need some "discipline" and should be subject to attack if they continue to provide support to those opposing our forces in Afghanistan. Of course, this is actual implementation of the Bush policy of "Either they're for us or against us," a policy declaration that the Bush administration never enforced.

It resolves itself into a matter of which alternative provides the least aggravation for the Pakistani government. If we continue to "understand" their dilemma in permitting and supporting jihadists in their border regions, then we provide them with a reason for not fighting our foes as their enemy. We need to end our "understanding" of their situation and impose consequences that cause them to choose to engage the tribal forces.

It als may be necessary to impose heavier penalties on drug dealers and users, who trade in the drugs that Afghanistan produces, which provide revenue for the al-Qaeda groups. And of course, we seem to find tactics which discourage cooperation with the al-Qaeda-Taliban to be distasteful, and impose restrictions on ourselves that are irrational in the conduct of hostilities. You will recall that the Taliban successfully curtailed the drug trade with their ruthless suppression and punishment. We are unwilling to take the necessary actions to achieve our purposes. Inanity.

We need to be just as forceful as the al-Qaeda-Taliban axis in terrorizing the civilian population, so that supporting our foes will not be the easy way out. The indigenous population will need to make hard choices as to who will secure their cooperation and support knowing full well that opposing us will result in consequences to them as uninviting as those involved in opposing the Taliban. They are in a bad situation, and the choices for them should be between worse and bad so that they choose us, bad, in preference to worse.

The "jihad" in Afghanistan could never be maintained without recipt of assistance from outside forces

JOHNSON

True. But, the drug trade in opium seems to finance a large part of their activities. So far the Bush administration seems to have shown little interest in stemming that in Afghanistan - since after 9/11 anyway, as the bumper crops in Afghanistan year after year have proven.

I'm having a hard time understanding the $43 Million they gave the Taliban in May 2001 to eradicate opium poppies, yet how they've shown so little interest in doing so while we're in country.

Religious Fanatics (binLaden) and Drug Traffickers (Northern Alliance) should not be confused with the US installed puppet Karsai, or the H-Bomb wielding Paki Army, or the Paki Secret Service that sent $100,000 to Mohamad Atta.

This region is a fucking mess. What Wilson achieved Congress through funding cuts and Shrub through direliction of duty undid. From the perspective of curbing or stopping al Qeada, it is extremely important. But it isn't our biggest problem by any measure.

The Russians made the mess. Let THEM clean it up!

The Russians wouldn't have made a mess if we didn't get involved. They would have just being making graveyards...and lots of them. We're just as guilty for the situation in Afghanistan as Russia is. We might even be more guilty because after we helped the Afghans defeat the Russians we just up and stopped helping. We had a incredible opportunity to put a somewhat positive image on ourselves in the region and we fucked it up because we don't give a shit about actually helping people, we only care about winning.

or the Paki Secret Service that sent $100,000 to Mohamad Atta

Follow that money and see where you get. If you think it came from ISI you're living up to your screen name.

So far the Bush administration seems to have shown little interest in stemming that in Afghanistan -

Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2008-07-21 05:53 AM | Reply

Most heroin goes to Europe, not the U.S.

Maybe Bush is just respecting the drug preferences of Germans and Dutch?

Here's the part I think he's getting right, fwiw:

...Obama promised us that if he becomes a president in the future, he will support and help Afghanistan not only in its security sector but also in reconstruction, development and economic sector.
-- (emphasis added)

There's some great research supporting the contention that more troops leads to more violence and more support for AQ, because we're viewed as an occupying force. (See, e.g., Bob Pape's "Dying to Win: the Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism" www.amazon.com )

But reconstruction and development are different. Americans often seem to forget that support for groups like Hamas and Hezbollah has less to do with ideology than with the amount of money they spend on public works projects -- e.g.,

"For the people of Palestine, it makes sense that they voted for the Hamas," she said. "It is essentially the hand that gives them food."

Hamas is known among Palestinians for its hospitals, education systems, libraries and social services.

www.mndaily.com

The hand that fights, the hand that builds-- is the Hezbollah slogan that sums up the essence of Lebanons party of God--: one hand to protect the partys mainly Shiite following with arms, if necessary; the other to improve its living conditions....

Hezbollah not only has armed and political wings it also boasts an extensive social development programme. The group currently operates at least four hospitals, 12 clinics, 12 schools and two agricultural centres that provide farmers with technical assistance and training. It also has an environmental department and an extensive social assistance programme. Medical care is also cheaper than in most of the countrys private hospitals and free for Hezbollah members.

www.irinnews.org

Apparently the Arab saying "you catch more flies with sugar than with vinegar" doesn't translate well into English.

BTW, I hope someone is recording the date of this historic moment. Nulli is criticizing Obama, and I'm defending him. Unlikely EVER to happen again.

"A lot of Republicans are very frustrated with what they see is the uncritical coverage of Barack Obama's candidacy," said David Mark, a senior writer at Politico.com. "

Dyna-F'ing-Mite !

Most heroin goes to Europe, not the U.S.

Maybe Bush is just respecting the drug preferences of Germans and Dutch?

Posted by vernon at 2008-07-21 05:44 PM

My point was that the hundreds of millions in cash from Afghani poppy production funds the Taliban.

BTW, if you missed my post yesterday, I think what you're doing in the PI with the school kids is great. It's amazing how so little can help so many in parts of the world.

I spent a month in the PI years ago while working with the USO. Loved the Filipino people.

"We made the mess". No "WE" didn't.

John Murtha's committee would not come up with money to help rebuild the infrastructure. At the time, Osama Bin Laden was just another rebal. If Murtha would have had more brains and helped these people, who were pro American for helping them defeat the Russians, we would be building instead of fighting and dying in Afghanistan.

Another great democratic decision unrepoted by the liberal press.

Obama supports a SURGE in Afghanistan!

WOW--why didn't he think of that while he was in the Senate for 143 days running the chair of the Afghan foreign policy.

Of which he never called a single hearing to discuss Afghan...And he opens his mouth and he has no authority to make promises.

It just keeps getting better and better...'o)

Obama's Summer Camping Trip--Ha!

"Obama's Summer Camping Trip--Ha!"

You must hate the fact that the Iraq government has again taken a pro Obama-plan stance after he met with them. Must suck to be you today.

Sure.

Pretend McCain never was a cheerleader for starting the war that should never have been fought in the first place. Pretend he didn't say it would be "shorter than the one in 1991".

Then pretend McCain's said a single solitary word about 'winning' the war in Afghanistan in the 2000 something days we've been there.

This 'Surge' BS is all the GOP has

We haven't forgotten who lied us into this debacle and then terribly mismanaged it for 5 1/2 years, yet want to blame someone else.

The good judgment was held by those who said we shouldn't invade Iraq in the first place.

American public opinion is heavily on my side.

Even Bush's daddy didn't want this war. McCain did.

He was wrong. I don't want another warmonger in the Wh.

he never called a single hearing to discuss Afghan

Because Afghanistan was being discussed at the committee level so what would be the purpose of trying to have the same meeting twice? But congrats, you're only a week late on your talking points. Nully is right, sucks to be you. Murphy's Law in Action.

The Russians wouldn't have made a mess if we didn't get involved.

History did not begin with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Haven't you ever heard of "the Great Game"? The Pashtun tribes have been playing against the Russians and Anglos for hundreds of years... and they know how to play it well.

In Afghanistan, there's only the option of playing the game or losing it. There is no "winning". And NOT playing means giving the "Pashtun's" the option of winning. You want Osama bin Laden at the head of a Pashtun Empire consisting of Afghanistan AND Pakistan AND the breakaway Southern Soviet states AND armed w/nukes?

why didn't he think of that while he was in the Senate for 143 days running the chair of the Afghan foreign policy. -- Nanc

Nothing in it for him then.

obama has a staff that is jus lettin it flow instead of makin sure his statements make sense to thinkin people -he is not well served by the people close to him----jus wait till the republican slime machine cranks it up for real---right now traps are bein set and if his(obamas)staff don't get on it he will fail in nov
jasman

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