Shocking that someone with the last name Lieberman would stab a Dem in the back...oh wait.

Corky's last name is Lieberman?

You know, our Founding Fathers thought it was a great idea to exclude women from the political process.

I continue to realize the wisdom of their ways.....

Well I wouldn't be surprised if her little game bears fruit but I doubt the beneficiary will be Hillary.

Hint: $400 haircuts and obscene wealth.

He campaigns for McSame and she campaigns for Hillary.
Loverly pair of Dinos.

either Barack has been kidding us lately, to reel in enough idiots to win, or there will be NO CHANGE.

This woman seems determined to make herself irrelevant.

She isn't the only one. There is a group trying to garner enough cash in order to disrupt the Convention. Sore losers through and through.

And she is comparing Obama to Hitler:

I have heard from many Survivors and their children about the symbolism and implications of use of rules to undermine our core democratic values. Ellen Mendel wrote that "I was born under Hitler in Germany, and reading about the plans for the Obama throng in the stadium in Denver and the implications which have been spelled out, gives me the chills...the DNC will deliver the country to Obama on a platter. I wonder when it will hit them what pawns they have been in this Faustian tragedy.

Pathetic.

No kidding. People like this are putting personality over politics. I can't think of any reason why a real Democrat would believe McCain is better for this country than Obama.

-Corky's last name is Lieberman?

-ManyLobotomys

With few exceptions, the posters here that ARE women make this poster the obviously consummate douche.

-I can't think of any reason why a real Democrat would believe McCain is better for this country than Obama.

The main reason I see expressed is that McCain is a moderate to liberal Repub who knows which end of Washington is which, and which end of the rifle to point.

Immoderate as this particular woman is, some Dems defining who are "real" Dems, instead of Dems being self-defining, is like being the gatekeeper at an ever shrinking tent.

"The main reason I see expressed is that McCain is a moderate to liberal Repub who knows which end of Washington is which, and which end of the rifle to point."

Are any of these people aware of the Judicial Branch of Government, specifically the Supreme Court? Electing McCain guarantees Scalia will be the intellectual thrust of the law for a generation. No thanks.

"The main reason I see expressed is that McCain is a moderate to liberal Repub "

Sorry Corky but that just isn't true any longer.

It isn't moderate to:

advocate bombing Iran
advocate making the Bush tax cuts permanent
advocate appointing conservative SC judges

McBush used to be somewhat moderate but his ambition caused him to abandon long held positions to pander to the extreme right. A vote for McBush is a vote for the Bush third term and you know it.

I don't think Corky is advocating that statement, I believe Corky is saying that is the reasoning that seems to be most prevalent. I do agree that it is faulty logic, but embittered people generally use faulty logic.

Da-Danni

You may note that I remarked on what is the, "main reason I see expressed", and I do know what I see.

I don't agree with that reasoning, as long as McCain's idea of cutting spending is to start with children's programs. But I also am not into bashing McCain as as bad as Bush when that is a major stretch of reality.

Most Repubs would not be as bad as Bush, unless they tried really hard, and McCain is not as bad as most Repubs.

McCain is not as bad as most Repubs.

That used to be true, but I don't think it applies anymore. That still doesn't change the fact that it is hard for me to believe that a Hillary supporter could actually just switch teams and vote for McCain because he/she thinks McCain would better represent his/her demoracratic ideals.

"Most Repubs would not be as bad as Bush, unless they tried really hard, and McCain is not as bad as most Repubs."

Which probably accounts for many Republicans luke warm endorsement of him.

Still though, Obama does represent Democratic values where as McCain represents Republican values.
Tax cuts for the rich have nearly bankrupted this country, no sane person could knowingly still support McCain.

You may not think it is true now as you did before because there is a campaign going on where both candidates have switched positions like a game of Musical Chairs, depending on who they are pandering to that day.

No, I think McCain has always been a conservative. He may not be as deplorable as Bush, but he is still deplorable. This is why I find it hard to believe that a Dem could vote for him no matter how pissed they are that their candidate lost in the primaries.

Immoderate as this particular woman is, some Dems defining who are "real" Dems, instead of Dems being self-defining, is like being the gatekeeper at an ever shrinking tent.

Being a member of a political party isn't "self-defining." Parties have political agendas that you either believe in or you don't, and if you don't you shouldn't be a member.

In this case, the Hillraiser is actively seeking to torpedo a nominee who agreed with Hillary Clinton's agenda on almost all issues and is helping a candidate who agreed with her on few of them.

Though she's free to call herself a Democrat, I think she'd be more accurately described as a Clintoncrat.

Sorry Corky, Obama has shifted a bit but compared ot McBush he has been quite consistent.

Torture anyone??
TAx cuts for the rich (probably most important issue)??

I can't think of any reason why a real Democrat would believe McCain is better for this country than Obama.

Posted by rcade

Talk to John Kerry...

- Clintoncrat

Is that anything like an Obambat?

-Being a member of a political party isn't "self-defining."

In the end, of course it is, depending on what weight one puts on which issues. It couldn't be that you are prejudiced by who's candidate she is trying to torpedo, eh?

I don't agree with her, but I also won't say she isn't a "real" Dem because I don't agree, or because she weighs issues differently than I do.

"Talk to John Kerry..."

who is an Obama supporter.

Being a member of a political party may not be "self defining" but there are basic core issues which if you support a candidate opposed to those ideas it makes your membership just hypocritical nonsense. Anyone who supports McCain is a DINO, I don't see any way around that.

"there are basic core issues which if you support a candidate opposed to those ideas it makes your membership just hypocritical nonsense"

Supreme Court nominees come to mind.

Well, if labeling makes you feel better.....

who is an Obama supporter.

Yeah now... after McCain told him to go pound sand...

If Kerry had it his way, today we would be preparing for the re-election of the Kerry/McCain administration. But now you hacks are trying to act like John McCain is the second coming of Karl Rove... bullshit...

In the end, of course it is, depending on what weight one puts on which issues. It couldn't be that you are prejudiced by who's candidate she is trying to torpedo, eh?

I don't agree with her, but I also won't say she isn't a "real" Dem because I don't agree, or because she weighs issues differently than I do.

Posted by Corky

From now until such time where Obama loses the election (or in 4 years the re-election), he is the leader of the Democratic Party, like it or not. That means he largely gets to say what it means to be a democrat.

This fact is overlooked by those who are overly-attached to the label, who should be looking somewhere else to have their issues addressed.

Brand loyalty remains, sometimes long after it abandons what made the brand famous in the first place.

I still can't believe this post was not posted by corky.

Hillary = McSame = Bush = Hillary.

No matter how you spin it, it comes up the same. Were it not for Obama, I'll bet less than 20% of the registered voters would even bother to vote.

I know I wouldn't, because it's the same old shit for brians corporate socialists and/or marxists.

-That means he largely gets to say what it means to be a democrat.

huh?

Is that before or after he changes the water into wine?

Is that before or after he changes the water into wine?

Posted by Corky

"LOL... after, of course. haven't you been paying attention?"

Personally, I would have completed the photoshopping job by removing the stairway he's standing on and making it look more like an ascension.

I just hope this poor deluded Lieberman woman doesn't consider herself a "real" Christian. Rogers will have to set her straight on that.

Personally, I would have completed the photoshopping job by removing the stairway he's standing on and making it look more like an ascension.

Posted by SanAntonioRogue

LOL... snorting, choking on my coffee. thanks, rogue.

It couldn't be that you are prejudiced by who's candidate she is trying to torpedo, eh?

No. If Clinton had won the nomination and an Obama fundraiser was trying to torpedo her candidacy, I'd say the same thing.

I'm not an Obamacrat. If he had lost I'd be supporting the candidate who beat him in the primary, since McCain's not the maverick Republican he was in 2000. He's wrong on too many issues to consider crossing party lines in November.

-since McCain's not the maverick Republican he was in 2000

I think you may be somewhat correct about that, though it is hard to tell in the middle of a a Pres campaign. She obviously disagrees, but that doesn't make her any less a Democrat.

since McCain's not the maverick Republican he was in 2000

Allow me to correct this...

since we don't want to call McCain a maverick Republican anymore because that might hurt Obama's chances.

Allow me to correct this...

I would agree with you had McCain not changed his position on so many stances in order to be more attractive to the republican base - i.e., his stance on taxes.

"...since we don't want to call McCain a maverick Republican anymore because..."

...he changed on tax cuts, and now toes the party line.

...he changed on torture, and now toes the party line.

...he changed on the religious right, and now toes the party line.

...he changed on Roe v Wade, and now toes the party line.

...he changed on SS privatization, and now toes the party line.

Shall I continue?

When was McCain ever a "Maverick Republican?" He has been despised by most conservatives for decades, and has done more to promote liberal causes than any Republican I can think of. His current stance on issues doesn't mean a thing - if he had more than 5 years left on his life he'd change it another 5 times.

Shall I continue?

Posted by Danforth

Sure. Making Rob look like a dumb fuck ain't hard, but it is always enjoyable to watch.

If Lieberman speaks at the Republican convention, is he any less a Democrat?

He's currently an Independent, but people know he's a Dem.

You cross the line, the party stop saying you are a part of it.

That still doesn't change the fact that it is hard for me to believe that a Hillary supporter could actually just switch teams and vote for McCain because he/she thinks McCain would better represent his/her demoracratic ideals.

Switch teams? Represent her ideals? That doesn't seem strange at all. Maybe she's like me and many other reasoning Americans who are not on a political team but instead decide who is the best person for the job. For this lady, her choices in candidates may be, in order, Clinton, McCain, Obama. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that except in the eyes of sheeple who think that Obama deserves Clinton supporters' votes by default.

I wish Americans would get out this political "our team" concept and elect the best person instead of the party they have their whole lives. We may actually elect someone worthy of the office if we all did that.

Goat,
Nice words and maybe the right will also take that advice. I believe that one of the reasons Bush got elected twice was that the right voted republican, because that's what they had always done, and irrespective of what the candidate had or had not done.
It's blind partisanship from both sides.
When Paul O'Neills book, and now McClellans book came out what did the right do? Judge the books content on substance? Get a little outraged maybe?
Nope, they assassinated the character and motives of the people who wrote the book.

I would agree with you had McCain not changed his position on so many stances in order to be more attractive to the republican base - i.e., his stance on taxes.

Posted by taxman

but that is all he is doing... trying to attract the republican base. The way he's acted as Senator for the majority of his career is how he will act as president. McCain is a man who has always been able to work with the Left as well as the right... He's paired up with Feingold and Kennedy. Everyone knows how this works... you have to move to the right or the left to get your parties nomination, then you move back to the middle once you've won it.

People acting like McCain is a die hard Neoconservative are being very dishonest because they want Obama to be the only one to have some sort of centrist title, even though he's done nothing to make people think he can work with the Right.

"Ricki Lieberman is keeping her own private hope alive with a daily email blast to supporters which slams Barack Obama in the belief that superdelegates may change their minds in Denver and crown Hillary Clinton the nominee instead."

Her plan is almost as foolproof as Hinkley's plan for winning Jodie Foster's love.

Goat, you throw around this sheeple term quite liberally when you have a clue what you are talking about. This person in question is a registered Democrat and I would be willing to bet that if you asked her about her stances on social/political issues, they would greatly differ from those of McCain. I never said she had to vote for Obama, but to call oneself a democrat and at the same time vote repub is rather disingenuous. The "best person" is not always going to be the same for every individual.

"The way he's acted as Senator for the majority of his career is how he will act as president."

Oh, we should not believe what he says during the campaign???
Then we should vote for an obvious liar???
Great analysis there Rob.

"There is absolutely nothing wrong with that except in the eyes of sheeple who think that Obama deserves Clinton supporters' votes by default."

Only the ones who call themselves Democrats instead of Hilarycrats. This woman is a Hilarycrat not a Democrat. She is entitled to be a Hilarycrat but it is nonsense for her to consider herself a Democrat.
I doubt there are really that many voters out there who will vote against the policies that both Hilary and Obama stand for just to express anger that their candidate didn't get the nomination. She makes herself irrelevant which is fine by me.

It seems some people would deny the existence of Reagan Democrats.

Guess someone just made that up, eh?

It appears that Ms Leiberman is a McCain Democrat, in the same mold as Reagan Democra... oh wait, no such thing. Sorry.

Oh, we should not believe what he says during the campaign???
Then we should vote for an obvious liar???
Great analysis there Rob.

If you believe everything McCain or Obama says during a CAMPAIGN, you are beyond stupid...

I realize Barack is the second coming of Jesus and will unite all into a golden age that will last 1000 years, but he's also a politician.

This thread is perfect evidence of how most people view politics as a "team sport" and not an "exercise of your freedom to choose." Who cares if someone "calls themselves a democrat?" All this shit about labels is completely irrelevant to politics. I think what the woman is saying is that she has voted democrat in the past but can't bring herself to vote for Obama. Which should be fine - but the "team sport" people can't fathom the idea of a "democrat" not voting for a "democrat." Sad.

I have no problem with her voting for a republican, I just can't fathom how someone who calls themself a democrat could say they line up well with McCain on the issues. If you don't want to vote for Obama because he wiped the floor with your candidate, then that is fine, but to say that McCain matches up with your take on the issues cannot be true.

I probably shouldn't have used "team", I was trying to dumb down the argument for the audience here.

"to say that McCain matches up with your take on the issues cannot be true."

Sure it can. You just have to pick whatever moment in time McCain happened to hold that particular stance. He has held every stance imagineable on a multitude of issues. Global warming, taxes, gay marriage, campaign finance, immigration - McCain has been liberal on all of those at one time or another.

So to say that a liberal couldn't possibly convince themselves that McCain is a liberal too isn't all that out of the ordinary. They'd just be playing the lottery.

BTW I never saw you use the word "team." I simply get that vibe from many of the posts here.

LOL Joe, I see what you are saying and now I agree. I guess I was thinking of statements as of late. I guess my whole thing is if you are going to go out of your way to lable yourself as a republican or democrat because either party is aligned with your socio-political idealogies, wouldn't you think you would stick with the guy your party puts forth? There are always exceptions,;for example, I would never vote for William Jefferson, but I still don't know if I would go out and vote for the republican (I would probably stay home).

Fair enough tax. This is a sore spot for me, as I think that putting power over ideas has been the downfall of the American political system, both at the voter and candidate level.

Personally Joe, I think the line between dem and repub has been blurred increasingly over the years. I am not registered with either party (no mail asking for money and no phone calls either), but as you obviously know, I tend to check the Dem side of the ballot when I am in the booth.

- If you don't want to vote for Obama because he wiped the floor with your candidate,

Wiped the floor? Is this revisionism or mere delusion?

- If you don't want to vote for Obama because he wiped the floor with your candidate,

Wiped the floor? Is this revisionism or mere delusion?

Just a dream come true for some.

Dream on.

I think what the woman is saying is that she has voted democrat in the past but can't bring herself to vote for Obama. Which should be fine - but the "team sport" people can't fathom the idea of a "democrat" not voting for a "democrat." Sad.

She raised $100,000 for Hillary Clinton. It follows logically that she supports Clinton's agenda. Obama's agenda is close to Clinton's. McCain's is not.

This isn't about sticking with a team. It's about using politics to achieve goals you believe in, and in this case, I can't see any reason in the world a major Clinton fundraiser would rather see McCain in office. Other than spite.

Perhaps she believes Clinton was competent enough to get that agenda driven through and she rightfully fears that a community organizer that changes his tune can't?
She may prefer experience over Hope and Change. But you can't fathom it so it must be spite.

Like those "spiteful" Reagan Democrats?

Corky please tell me you did not go to L.D. Bell. All of H-E-B absolutely sucks. Grapevine/Colleyville is/was the place to be if you wanted a real education.

As for you statement about Reagan dems, I think Rogers makes an excellent point in his latest post.

Bell had moved while I was still too young to go there, but I played Pop Warner at their old locale. Went early to Bedford and Hurst schools, high school at Irving High.

Lived on Crooked Lane in Grapevine after college at ETSU. My folks lived in Colleyville later on.

Rogers doesn't address Reagan-McCain Dems in his post, or any of the various political or personal reasons this woman might legitimately prefer McCain, only a very Spock-like "it isn't logical".

Yep, must be just spite.

"I am endeavoring, ma'am, to construct a mnemonic circuit using stone knives and bearskins."

"This isn't about sticking with a team. It's about using politics to achieve goals you believe in, and in this case, I can't see any reason in the world a major Clinton fundraiser would rather see McCain in office. Other than spite." - RCADE

I am assuming that by "team" you're referring to Team Clinton instead of the Democratic Party. Is so, then I agree.

"Perhaps she believes Clinton was competent enough to get that agenda driven through"

Yeah, but she couldn't even beat the inexperienced Obama despite being the presumptive nominee before the primaries. So how competent could she be?.

Ricki Lieberman?

Whozzit?

Self Emloyed NYer who's a "Consultant" to NPOs?

Beerdrinker and Hillraiser?

Hmmm... More of an Obama basher than a Hillary supporter it would appear.

Why would that be?

FTA: The emails sometimes go out of their way to parrot some of the most hardcore attacks on Obama, including comments comparing Obama's planned nomination speech to Nazi-era rallies in Germany. In one email, she quotes messages from apparent Holocaust survivors:

Ah, much like the other LIEberman, (Joe "The 'I' stands fer 'Israel') it would appear that this Lieberman thinks McCain's support fer war eternal in the ME is just swell. The fact that it matches the mindset found in too many Israeli politicians these days must be more than just some kinda wild coincidence.

It would appear to Spud that Ricki Lieberman is a one issue politico.

Her issue is Israel.

Be Well.

"a one issue politico"

**
This land is mine!
God gave this land to me!
**

What a load of shit.

What a load of shit.

If you got a competing theory on why anyone who was fer Hillary would switch to McCain while dissing Obama fulltime then Spud would luff to hear it.

It breaks down to more than just simple-minded vagina-visioned luff fer Hill the Chill.

The story's premise that she is simply a rabid Dem trying to reverse Obama's nomination is completely insufficient as a rationale fer this behaviour.

Be Well.

"why anyone who was fer Hillary would switch to McCain "

I'm talking about zionism.

Hillary and McCain are utterly irrelevant to me.

Zionism's fundamental claim to legitimacy is utter bullshit. There is no god.

This land is mine!
God gave this land to me!

Oops, sorry, Spud is misread that last.

Yer saying that the whole "God" thing and "Chosen People" thing is really a ridiculous and arbitrary way of justifying illegal ocupations and making policy.

Spud quite agrees with that.

Zionism's fundamental claim to legitimacy is utter bullshit. There is no god.

Agreed.

The Human Race is getting a little too long in the tooth to be able to indulge in these "My God can beat up yer God" typa time-wasting childish arguments.

Be Well.

Been to Jib Jab lately?

Sweet.

Rogers doesn't address Reagan-McCain Dems in his post, or any of the various political or personal reasons this woman might legitimately prefer McCain, only a very Spock-like "it isn't logical".

I don't provide them because the notion is ridiculous. A true Democrat, given the agendas of John McCain and Barack Obama, would choose Obama. Just to pick one issue among many that separate these candidates, would any Democrat want McCain selecting the replacement for John Paul Stevens and Ruth Bader Ginsburg?

This discussion reminds me of Nader supporters who said over and over in 2000 that there wasn't any difference between Gore and Bush.

"My God can beat up yer God"

But if they're all monotheists ...

This is why I like being an experimentalist.
It's like photography, well, it IS photography.

Hey I just took the picture, man.

Rogers

You may think that the entire notion of Reagan Dems or McCain Dems is ridiculous, and therefore ridicule them to your heart's content, but that doesn't mean that they either don't exist or will go away.

Some people apparently give more weight to their belief that Obama is unqualified to be CinC and/or President than they do to specific policy issues where they might agree with him more than with McCain.

It's a free country.

Sort of.

And furthermore, lol, it seems ridiculous to me to see McCain in a statistical dead heat now with Obama in some polls, just about where they were when Obama won (see: backed into) the nomination, so no lasting bounce at all..... but it is what it is.