Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Tuesday, July 15, 2008

Barack Obama explains in a New York Times op-ed piece why making the transition to handing power back to the Iraqis in a timely mannner is winning in Iraq and why John McCain's plan for staying in Iraq is both counterproductive in the real war against violent terrorism and ultimately unsustainable.

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FTA: But the same factors that led me to oppose the surge still hold true. The strain on our military has grown, the situation in Afghanistan has deteriorated and weve spent nearly $200 billion more in Iraq than we had budgeted. Iraqs leaders have failed to invest tens of billions of dollars in oil revenues in rebuilding their own country, and they have not reached the political accommodation that was the stated purpose of the surge.

The good news is that Iraqs leaders want to take responsibility for their country by negotiating a timetable for the removal of American troops. Meanwhile, Lt. Gen. James Dubik, the American officer in charge of training Iraqs security forces, estimates that the Iraqi Army and police will be ready to assume responsibility for security in 2009.

Sounds doable.

Be Well.

Sounds a lot better than 100 years is just hunky-dory doesn't it?

So he crossed Bush's name off and wrote Obama on the plan?

/we'll step down when they step up.

SHIRT

Come on to the Back Page and tell us all about your take on your idiot moron President who gave the Taliban $43 Million in May 2001!

Attempt to come up with an explanation that doesn't boggle the mind.

Unless all you have are empty words.

It was June 2001 and It was $270,000,000 for opium eradication. I didn't vote for the fool and I didn't support that action and you are myopic for assuming that anyone who isn't a cheerleader for Obama is in the tank for Bush.

Empty enough for you?

Gee, SHIRTS

We've been IN Afghanistan for 6 1/2 years and haven't eradicated a single poppy field.

Imagine that.

Bush gives the the Taliban the money (who harbored Bin Laden), and yet here were are THERE and he doesn't give a shit.

Somehow that makes sense in your world.

You didnt' bother reading the article, and yet you comment.

$43 million. You read English?

Other money went to humanitarian relief AGENCIES.

The $43 million went directly to the Taliban.

"So he crossed Bush's name off and wrote Obama on the plan?"

Da winnah in the shooting-off-mouth-haven't-
read-article competition.

I'd of like to have heard that he's also going to investigate war profiteering and take a look at those no-bid contracts in general. Slow down the transfer of wealth from future taxpayers to current scumbags.

Bush's war profiteering friends are also our enemies (except those of you who enjoy a good reaming).

***** So he crossed Bush's name off and wrote Obama on the plan? ******

........Bush doesn't plan for anything.......

........he follows talking points from God.......

"talking points from God"

Good one.

Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq

and

U.S. Commanders in Iraq Warn of Security Dangers, See Logistical Nightmare

Its becoming more and more clear Obama is in over his head

***** U.S. Commanders in Iraq Warn of Security Dangers, See Logistical Nightmare

Its becoming more and more clear Obama is in over his head

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole ******

..........you don't see the irony of your posting ?........

......here's a hint.....Shinseki, Bush Sr., .........

No Rob, the only one in over his head is your boy Dubya...

"Its becoming more and more clear Obama is in over his head"

And yet you never saw the same thing in Bush, even though he pretty much flat out refused to plan things properly because it would have been too much work and would have possibly raised too many good reasons for staying the fuck out of there in the first place.

.........the chimp was over his head when he was a cheerleader getting bumfucked in college.......

Righties talk about "messiah" Obama...as if the left is blinded by his inexperience and faux pas'. Yet, we see, and suffer for, one idiot move of his after another, and the right still defends him. The sheer stupidity of that boggles the mind. Does anyone on the right even pay attention to this idiot that you elected? Or do you just co-sign his incompetence because he talked like some halfass cowboy after 9/11?

I'm sorry, perhaps there was some breaking news that I didn't see... did Bush somehow get on the ballot for 2008? huh, maybe he does think the Constitution is just a goddamn piece of paper.

Why would you want to replace someone who you thought didn't know what he was doing, with someone who doesn't seem to know what he is doing.

And if you thought ignoring Shinseki was such a critical mistake, why wouldn't you listen to commanders now?

Obama's plan is nonsense!

Getting the soldiers out in 16 months is a possibility but getting all of our "stuff" out in that time fram is complete nonsense.

Getting the soldiers out is 16 months is a possibility but getting all of our "stuff" out in that time frame is complete nonsense.

The soldiers can get on a plane and fly home.

All the heavy stuff has to be loaded on trucks and moved over narrow roads to Kuwait and loaded on to ships and then home. Then the ships have to be unloaded and go back to Kuwait to be loaded again.

The people who do all of this are the army transportation companies. They are soldiers and they will be there for much more than 16 months. They will also have to have support as they move equipment over the roadways (other soldiers, helicopters, etc.)

Get out of Iraq! Great!

Get out in 16 months (stupid campaign rhetoric)

Also Obama says in the article that the surge worked but he is still against it for the same reasons he was against it when it was proposed. When it was proposed he said it wouldn't work. Now that's logic for you!

Right, left, who gives a shit, as long as it gets us out of that vacuum in iraq.

"Why would you want to replace someone who you thought didn't know what he was doing, with someone who doesn't seem to know what he is doing."

You're speaking of Jurassic John, of course. Too bad he can't hear you. He's out looking for Czechoslovakia. Or the Soviet Union. Or Narnia. Or Shiites. Or was it Sunnis? Perhaps Baptists? Maybe Talibaptists? Yeah, that's the ticket.

"Get out in 16 months (stupid campaign rhetoric)"

How about a link to support your contention that we couldn't remove most of our equipment in 16 months.

He's out looking for Czechoslovakia.

I love that the left's attacks on McCain have degraded to the equivolent of Blog spell checking...

How about a link to support your contention that we couldn't remove most of our equipment in 16 months.

Posted by danni

My 9:19 post, where commanders in Iraq say his plan isn't the greatest idea.

Danni I've heard you bring up Shinseki before... so why do you rail against Republicans for not listening to him, but then do the same thing when Generals don't say what you want to hear?

"I love that the left's attacks on McCain have degraded to the equivolent of Blog spell checking.."

No, its actually a bit more disturbing as a pattern of "senior moments", at best. For example, the Czechoslovakia gaff wouldn't be worth mentioning, if it hadn't been the 3rd time he's made it.

****** And if you thought ignoring Shinseki was such a critical mistake, why wouldn't you listen to commanders now?

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole *****

......because the "war" has turned into an "occupation".......

......and the question has to be asked........why are we occupying Iraq ?......

......if the answer is "To Bankrupt America"...then we keep doing what Bush has been doing for years, and elect McCain to follow his policy........

.......if the answer is, the war and occupation were crimes of the previous administration......

.........then we get out as quickly as possible......

Its clear that the US is in deep dodo thanks to the Chimp in Command. If it is not clear to you yet that Bush has gotten this Country into a terrible mess, than you are of the 90% of the people that just dont get it. I dont see how anyone person can get this to all go away be it Mc Bush or Obama Hussien.

*** Get out of Iraq! Great!
Get out in 16 months (stupid campaign rhetoric)

Posted by FreddyK ****

.......when we went INTO Iraq.........

......it took two weeks for 130,000 troops to go from Kuwait to Baghdad........

......and 16 months is not going to be enough to get them the same distance in 32times the amount of time ??......please.......

An orderly retreat is the most difficult maneuver for an army. And after all these years there's plenty of folks who will want one last jab before we get our guys out. That's the main concern of the operational command - other than the whole country blowing up and having to go back in.

Much of this falls to the Iraqis to main stability and so far they haven't demonstrated that ability.

Sink or swim. I got thrown in the pool. Now it's Maliki's turn.

SULLY

Remember Don "I just can't imagine we'll be there 6 months" Rumsfeld?

These are the 'pros' Bush gave a free hand.

Thank God the GOP lost Congress in 2006 or Rumsfeld would still be there. He was until the day after the election when it became clear George and Dick would have supervision.

"the equivolent of Blog spell checking..."

Calling attention to the statements of a guy who confuses Shiites with Sunnis, evidently believes Czechoslovakia still exists, and refers to the Soviet Union in the present tense is the equivalent of blog spell checking? Oh, come on.

You don't get a FF for it, but "the equivolent of Blog spell checking" came pretty close.

Rob,
That's always the rights retort...Bush ain't running.
Why do we have new rules for judging a president now, when you guys gladly looked the other way with his many blunders for the past 7.5 years? Hell, most of you still do and even try to defend it.
Clinton wasn't running in 04 and 00 yet his name came up alot here in 05 and on (when I started posting).
You guys blast Obama, who hasn't even had a chance to screw up anything, while you support Bush, who has screwed up everything he's touched. Why?

**** Much of this falls to the Iraqis to main stability and so far they haven't demonstrated that ability.
Posted by OzarkAggie ******

......sixteen months plus another six till Obama takes office........

.......thats two years.......

......if the Iraqis cannot take over with two years lead time, and unspent billions of dollars in the bank......

......then they will never be ready.......

......and at the rate that we are spending money on that occupation......

.......it may still cost another 1/2 trillion till we get out......

......and with our economy in the crapper, I could think of far better ways to spend that money at home.......

OZARK

They got 650,000 troops out of the ME at the end of Desert Storm in way less than 16 months.

Of course, we had allies besides Poland and those 10 guys from Paraguay.

Bush's idea of an "International Coalition" is the equivalent of the Muncie, Indiana airport calling themselves an "International Airport" because they have flights to Canada twice a week or something.

"The Iraqis want a timetable? News to me."

John McSame

Sounds like a well thought out plan, and 16 months is plenty of time to remove troops and everything. we put the stuff their in a whole lot shorter period.

"Danni I've heard you bring up Shinseki before... so why do you rail against Republicans for not listening to him, but then do the same thing when Generals don't say what you want to hear?"

Rob, no where in your article does it name anyone who says we can't remove our equipment. The say "several commanders" which could mean anything. Considering that politics plays a big role in military advancement these days it isn't surprising that the people they spoke to maintian a pretty close adherance to approved Bush/Cheney propaganda.
Personally, I am pretty sure we could get most of our equipment out of Iraq in 16 months considering how long it took to build a much larger force for the Persian Gulf War. Consider that the equipment might just be moved to Kuwait and then it could await transport at our convenience, it doesn't all need to be transported back to the US immediately and the author of the article knew that. As usual these days ABC News is a shill for the Bush administration. Next time provide a real news source, ABC simply doesn't qualify.

Bush's 'plan' for Afghanistan after he took office was to give the Taliban $43 million dollars in cash even though he knew Bin Laden was training terrorists there and the Taliban was a despicable regime, not our 'friends'.

Why? He said it was for poppy eradication.

Funny thing is we've been there 6 1/2 years and not a single poppy field has been destroyed, with the profits funding the Taliban still.

I linked the article on the Back Page.

Disgusting.

I'm starting to think the 9/11 conspiracy theorists aren't so crazy after all. Nothing about the cash to the Taliban makes sense. Nothing Bush has done in the 'War on Terror' has made sense.

As usual these days ABC News is a shill for the Bush administration. Next time provide a real news source, ABC simply doesn't qualify.

Posted by danni

Are you shitting me? ABC News doesn't qualify anymore...

Okay, for you Danni, from now on I'll only link to BarackObama.com and AlJazeera.net... the only two "real news" sources left right?

I'm starting to think the 9/11 conspiracy theorists aren't so crazy after all.

Then you're officially irrelevant.

"AlJazeera.net"

You have to be able to read Arabic, right to left, in order to follow that one.

However, english.aljazeera.net can be interesting.

Often wondered what, specifically, the righties find so off about Al Jazeera. I mean, other than the fact that unlike them, the outlet didn't fall hook, line, and sinker for Bush's bullshit.

FLOP EARS QUOTE."I had a plan, but forgot what it was. I have been Flip Floping so much I can't remember what it was".

DOC

They also show the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis with their limbs blown off.

Excellent point, AU. Nasty stuff, that. Causes indigestion. Better to "sanitize" the "news" first.

OZZIE

You're officially, beyond a doubt, a Moonie.

No wonder you come here to commiserate with your like minded right wing idiots.

BTW, it was George W Bush who went to Japan in the 90's to bail Sun Myung Moon out of the scrape he got into there. Moon is tight with the right wing of America. REALLY tight.

He even has office space in the Washington Times building for doing biz with the North Koreans.

And no, I'm not buying any flowers from you.

(for sane Americans, you can read all about the vast Moon-GOP connections in "Bad Moon Rising")

They also show the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis with their limbs blown off.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY

I'll bet the original Pravda had some pictures they claimed to be of innocents killed/hurt by America too...

Only differnece is back then few Americans would read or trust the newspaper of our enemies...

ROB

Video doesn't lie


ROB

Video doesn't lie

Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Says the guy who just said he's starting to side with the 9/11 conspirators... LMAO!!!!

ROB

What I said was I'm starting to think the conspiracy theorists may not be crazy after all.

What IS crazy is Bush giving the Taliban $43 million in cash in May 2001 for starters....

Why? "Poppy eradication"

Uh huh.

We've been in Afghanistan for 6 1/2 years and haven't destroyed the poppy fields have we.

Uh huh.

There's a linked article on the Back Page. I'm sure you're not interested in reading it. It isn't flattering to your GOP heros in the 'War on Terror'.

"Only differnece is back then few Americans would read or trust the newspaper of our enemies..."

How, exactly, is Al Jazeera a media outlet "of our enemies"?

Interesting, on this thread, the paucity of criticism from the right of Obama's plan for Iraq.

I guess all they can say is, "Plan, schlan. That's no plan. Our guy's got a Hundred-Year Plan!"

How, exactly, is Al Jazeera a media outlet "of our enemies"?

I forgot Al Jazeera was a Christian European based news outlet...

Uh, Bush was given all the information on Bin Laden, his training camps hosted by the Taliban, yet chose to give them cash, move cruise missiles out of range, disregard warnings in August 2001 about impending "attacks using airplanes as weapons" without increasing security at airports, invading the wrong country, giving up the hunt for Bin Laden, on and on and on and on.

What IS crazy is Bush giving the Taliban $43 million in cash in May 2001 for starters....

Why? "Poppy eradication"

Uh huh.

What are you saying here, that the Bush Administration gave this $43mil as a reward for 9/11, or payment?

Now here is where you'll backtrack or spin... but that's a fucked up allegation to make, and puts you in the ranks of Buffalo_Bob, Tonyroma and Bani... make yourself at home, there's a big bowl of crazy on the table help yourself.

Al Jazeera is housed and funded by our 'friends' in Qatar

Uh, Bush was given all the information on Bin Laden, his training camps hosted by the Taliban, yet chose to give them cash, move cruise missiles out of range, disregard warnings in August 2001 about impending "attacks using airplanes as weapons" without increasing security at airports, invading the wrong country, giving up the hunt for Bin Laden, on and on and on and on.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY

I guess its still fun to play Make Believe even when your 84...

I'm not saying anything but that Bush is a complete fucking moron for giving the Taliban $43 million in cash when he knew all too well they were providing safe haven to Bin Laden and Al Qaeda

How, exactly, is Al Jazeera a media outlet "of our enemies"?

"I forgot Al Jazeera was a Christian European based news outlet...
Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2008-07-15 10:50 AM"

Translation: You can take it to the bank if you read it in L'Osservatore Romano or hear it on Vatican Radio.

ROB

You know well everything I listed has been chronicled ad nauseum by multiple credible sources.

You didn't get enough sleep last night did you?

Deflect and spin away.....

Rob are you seriously going to contend that we could not move the majority of the equipment into Kuwait in sixteen months???

A 650,000 strong international coalition moved their equipment out of the ME in way less time than 16 months.

**** Rob are you seriously going to contend that we could not move the majority of the equipment into Kuwait in sixteen months???

Posted by danni *****

......all the truck tires are flacid on the right side......

.....Obama's plan for getting us out .......

.....is no worse than Bush's plan for getting us in......

......and it has the added benefit of being pointed in the right direction.......

You know well everything I listed has been chronicled ad nauseum by multiple credible sources

I would love to see the august 2001 warning that says planes would be used as weapons... yes we're all familiar with the PDB saying Bin Laden was determined to strike the US, but I don't remember that part...

move cruise missiles out of range

The US Military can strike just about anywhere in the world in a matter of hours and given that at the time we still had plenty of forces in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, along with and this is a guess but it makes sense, several ships in the Indian Ocean... so for you to say we were out of range is really quite silly.

giving up the hunt for Bin Laden

Absolutely no such thing ever happened, but thank you for spitting on the efforts of all the forces hunting for Bin Laden... just a bunch of failures in your world huh?

without increasing security at airports

Every single hijacker was searched, had their bags searched and went through every security checkpoint at the airports they used... You want to know what would have stopped them... racial profiling... but let me guess your feelings on that.

Google "logistics" and "Operation Desert Storm" to learn something about just how fast the US can move an extraordinary amount of stuff -- people and materiel -- around.

Well said, SKIZZIKS

Obama's exactly right. We need to finish the war with the real threat.

We're 4 1/2 years overdue in leaving (at the max) according to Don Rumsfeld and the WH shills.

ROB

No need to guess.

Arabs were going to hijack airplanes and use them as bombs.

Did the 9/11 hijackers receive any closer scrutiny despite the fact that Bush got warnings a month before we were going to be attacked specifically the way we were? Apparently not according to the videotapes.

Fuck up #3.

#1 Giving the Taliban money while they hosted Bin Laden

#2 Moving cruise missles out of range, eliminating the possibility of a shot at Bin Laden

#115 Leaving Nelson Mandela on the 'Terrorist Watch List' (that just went to a million names) even after he'd been President of South Africa. And before that? Gee he was such a threat those decades he was in prison.

Obama the Hateful- Speaking to "La Raza" using the race card to condemn anyone who doesnt agree with criminals(illegal immigrants)who broke the law to come here. Such bullshit.A lie repeated gains the legitamacy of truth.

Of course if the intolerant left loses in November, the election will have been stolen and the pantspissing libruls will have to increase thier meds and green bud yet again.

Condoleezza Rice was the top National Security official with President Bush at the July 2001 G-8 summit in Genoa. There, "U.S. officials were warned that Islamic terrorists might attempt to crash an airliner" into the summit, prompting officials to "close the airspace over Genoa and station antiaircraft guns at the city's airport." [Sources: Los Angeles Times, 9/27/01; White House release, 7/22/01]

January 1995 Philippines disrupts Operation Bojinka to explode 11 or 12 passenger planes over the Pacific Ocean and to crash others into prominent US buildings. Philippines warns US of targets for attack, including CIA headquarters, Pentagon, nuclear power plant, TransAmerica Tower (San Francisco), Sears Tower (Chicago), and World Trade Center. Plotter Abdul Hakim Murad is handed over to FBI in April 1995 and he identifies 10 other men in flight training who were involved.

January 1996 US intelligence receives information of a planned suicide attack on the White House by a plane flying from Afghanistan.

July - August 1996 US officials identify crop dusters and suicide flights as threats to the Atlanta Olympics. They ban planes from getting too close to events, deploy Black Hawk helicopters and US Customs jets to intercept suspicious aircraft, monitor crop-duster flights near downtown, place armed fighter jets on standby at local air bases, screen passengers to Atlanta more carefully, and send law enforcement agents to regional airports to make sure nobody hijacked a small airplane (these become known as the Atlanta Rules--).

October 1996 US intelligence learns of an Iranian plot to hijack a Japanese plane over Israel and to crash it into Tel Aviv.

February 1997 White House Commission on Aviation Safety and Security (Gore Commission) issued its final report, reference failed Operation Bojinka, and call for increased aviation security. The commission believes that terrorist attacks on civil aviation are directed at the United States, and that there should be an ongoing federal commitment to reducing the threats that they pose.--

1998-1999 FBI issues warnings of possible terrorists training at US flight schools.

1999 Britains M16 domestic intelligence agency reports to US that al Qaeda plans to use commercial aircraft in unconventional ways possibly as flying bombs.

August 2000 Italian intelligence wiretaps al Qaeda cell in Milan, Italy and overhears plan to attack enemies of Islam with aircraft. Warning is sent to US in March 2001.

giving up the hunt for Bin Laden..

Absolutely no such thing ever happened, but thank you for spitting on the efforts of all the forces hunting for Bin Laden... just a bunch of failures in your world huh?

ROB
-----------

Maybe it never happened in your fantasy world.

-"Dead or Alive"? = "I don't really think about him much"

-Pulling Army Rangers out of Tora Bora and sending them to Iraq

-The CIA kill team that had him in their sights and couldn't get the go ahead from the WH (The Ongoing Hunt For Osama Bin Laden - NEWSWEEK)

-Closing down the 'Bin Laden' desk Clarke set up and shifting those assets to finding something, anything, on Saddam in the march to war.

-etc.

And the fact the fucker is still at large nearly 7 years after the attacks.

ROB, you're sleep deprived. Later.

Arabs were going to hijack airplanes and use them as bombs.

You said that was contained in the August 2001 PDB, I just said I'd like to see it... I'm not just going to take your word for it, cuz I'm pretty sure it did not say it. So show where it said what you put in quotes.

Did the 9/11 hijackers receive any closer scrutiny despite the fact that Bush got warnings a month before we were going to be attacked specifically the way we were?

You're gonna need to show evidence of this if you're going to keep making the accusation. If you're talking about he "Bin Laden Determined To Strike US" PDB, then I think you're going to need to stop making this claim... so please, provide such statements.

#2 Moving cruise missles out of range, eliminating the possibility of a shot at Bin Laden

Before Tora Bora, the last time we knew exactly where Bin Laden was to take a shot at him was during the Clinton Administration when we found his huntinig party. The Clinton Administration did not give the order to attack because some prince from a ME nation was with them. So even if we were out of range of Afghanistan (We never were, but let's play some more make believe), it wouldn't have mattered because we never saw him again...

BTW

Cruise missles have a range of 600 miles.

Afghanistan is not on the ocean

Our cruise missiles were on ships and subs

They were moved further than 600 miles away

-Get the math, dude?

Four of the 9/11 hijackers, including the ringleader, Mohammed Atta, were identified as probable members of a US-based Qa'ida cell " a year before the attacks were carried out.

The discovery was made by a Pentagon intelligence unit, Able Danger, set up in 1999 by the military's Special Operations Command to gather information about al-Qa'ida around the world.

The team identified a so-called Brooklyn Cell affiliated to the terrorist group. Apart from Atta, it included Marwan al-Shehhi, as well as Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi " the two 19 hijackers who had also been identified by the CIA as potential threats in mid- 2000, but whose names the intelligence agency did not pass on to the FBI until months before the attacks.

Able Danger recommended that the information be passed on to the FBI. This was turned down because the four either had green cards allowing permanent residence, or valid entry visas. No less astonishing, details do not appear to have been passed on to the bipartisan 9/11 Commission set up by George Bush in 2003. It was told about the existence of Able Danger " but not that Able Danger had identified Mr Atta and three colleagues

"Did the 9/11 hijackers receive any closer scrutiny despite the fact that Bush got warnings a month before we were going to be attacked specifically the way we were? Apparently not according to the videotapes."

Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Some of you numbskulls may want to review the time line for the hijackers at the link below and remember that most were in the US training long before Bush was elected.

www.freerepublic.com

And yet no one in the Bush WH listened to the FBI agent who was desperately trying to alert them.

-The CIA kill team that had him in their sights and couldn't get the go ahead from the WH (The Ongoing Hunt For Osama Bin Laden - NEWSWEEK)

Did you think I couldn't find the article?

www.msnbc.msn.com

when you get caught lying like this, it makes the rest of the conversation kind of pointless.

Done.

The US Attorneys, appointed by Clinton, would not allow this to be pursued because these asshole had green cards. Never mind common sense and evidence that they were terrorists. Blame the lawyers. And both administrarions they are all culpable.

"The US Attorneys, appointed by Clinton, would not allow this to be pursued because these asshole had green cards."

Link please.

"Able Danger"

Oh, back to that again. I believe that was debunked years ago.

ROB

Why the fuck do you think I named the article by name if I didn't want you to find it.

You completely missed the part about the kill team, the box for Bin Laden's head, the refusal to provide assets? Why? They were needed in Iraq.

God, you're dense

The fact we haven't caught Bin Laden in almost 7 years speaks louder than any argument you can make.

The Bush WH dropped the ball on Bin Laden.

Period. He's still at large as is his #2 - the man who makes the plans.

AU the closest thing in the article I could find to your assertion that: The CIA kill team that had him [Bin Laden] in their sights and couldn't get the go ahead from the WH (The Ongoing Hunt For Osama Bin Laden - NEWSWEEK)

Was a story about how the CIA thought there was an 80% chance Zawahiri or another OBL friend was at a house in Pakistan, but they didn't get the go ahead because they were only 80% certain and the risk according to Rumsfeld was too great...

But no where in the article did I see that they had Bin Laden in their sights and couldn't get the go ahead.

You pointed us all to the article with this accusation, did I miss it in the article? Its linked above... please show us all.

ROB

Your sleep deprivation is ruining your eyesight:

"As recalled by Gary Berntsen, the CIA officer in charge of the covert team working with the Northern Alliance, code-named Jawbreaker, the military refused his pleas for 800 Army Rangers to cut off bin Laden's escape. Maj. Gen. Dell Dailey, the Special Ops commander sent out by Central Command, told Berntsen he was doing an "excellent job," but that putting in ground troops might offend America's Afghan allies. "I don't give a damn about offending our allies!" Berntsen yelled, according to his 2005 book, "Jawbreaker." "I only care about eliminating Al Qaeda and delivering bin Laden's head in a box!"

You completely missed the part about the kill team, the box for Bin Laden's head, the refusal to provide assets?

BULLSHIT!!! You said: The CIA kill team that had him [Bin Laden] in their sights and couldn't get the go ahead from the WH

NOT that they couldn't get the resources... that they had him in their sights! Don't fucking change the story now because you got caught in a lie. Be a man, own up to what you did. You lied about the situation, they never had Bin Laden in their sights.

What part of that is so hard for you to comprehend, ROB?

Get some sleep dude

Your sleep deprivation is ruining your eyesight:

Sleep deprevation can't help you changing the story around. You didn't say that pleas for troops and resources went unheard, or refused, you said Bin Laden was in their sights and the White House wouldn't give the go ahead to kill him.

That's a completely different animal. You lied.

More than half of the U.S. House of Representatives wants open hearings on Able Danger
November 18, 2005, US House of Representatives Website of Curt Weldon (R-Pa)
curtweldon.house.gov

U.S. Rep. Curt Weldon (R-Pa.), vice chairman of the House Armed Services and Homeland Security Committees, has sent a letter to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld signed by over half of the House of Representatives requesting that he allow "former participants in the intelligence program known as ABLE DANGER to testify in an open hearing before the United States Congress." The letter has 246 signatures (144 Republicans, 101 Democrats, and one Independent), including senior members and leadership on both sides of the isle. "The full story of ABLE DANGER deserves to be heard by the American people," said Weldon. "Secretary Rumsfeld must understand that the will of Congress is behind allowing members of the ABLE DANGER effort to testify in an open hearing about the work they were doing prior to 9-11 to track the linkages and relationships of al-Qaeda worldwide. Congressional efforts to investigate ABLE DANGER have been obstructed by Department of Defense insistence that certain individuals with knowledge of ABLE DANGER be prevented from freely and frankly testifying in an open hearing

What part of that is so hard for you to comprehend, ROB?

Why can't you just be a man and admit what you did? You said they had him in his sights, and that the White House wouldn't give them the go ahead.

Did you say that, yes or no?

The liar is you, ROB

Your tired and empty retorts aren't going to change the fact the WH let Bin Laden get away one iota.

You think they went there to play checkers with him?

Not with a box for his head they didn't.

Able Danger"

Oh, back to that again. I believe that was debunked years ago.

Debunked= I dont agree with that so I will be closeminded and wont look at it.

That's not exactly "in their sites," AU. More like knowing he's in torah borah and wanting to put a slowly shrinking fence around the province in order to eventually come up with him.

Up until that point, your argument was solid. Then you overplayed your cards.

Suit airs Able Danger claims
March 4, 2006, Sacramento Bee (Leading newspaper of Sacramento, Calif.)
www.sacbee.com

Two operatives at the center of the Able Danger controversy have sued the Defense Department for denying them contact with their lawyers during closed congressional hearings. Army Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer and J.D. Smith were among a dozen intelligence officers and contractors who worked on the clandestine program set up long before the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks to track al-Qaida. They are accusing the Pentagon...of violating their First Amendment rights by blocking their access to legal counsel during the closed sessions. "Able Danger identified the Sept. 11, 2001, attack leader Mohamed Atta, and three of the 9/11 plot's 19 hijackers, as possible members of an al-Qaida cell linked to the 1993 World Trade Center attack or its participants," the suit said. Shaffer, a Bronze Star recipient who fought undercover in Afghanistan, caused a stir in August when he stepped forward to say that he and other Able Danger operatives had identified Atta as long as 21 months before the Sept. 11 attacks. That claim - later supported by the Able Danger team's leader, Navy Capt. Scott Phillpott - contradicted a central finding of the commission Congress had set up to probe the Sept. 11 attacks, which concluded that none of the hijackers had been known to U.S. authorities before the assault.

800 Army Rangers. 1/5 of those killed in Iraq fighting an Al Qaeda that wasn't there before we got there.

You're completely delusional. Your rants about 'lying' are ludicrous.

The facts about dropping the ball on Bin Laden time and time again are indisputable.

Spin your crap with someone else. You're beating a dead horse. Bin Laden is still at large. We had him, but the WH let him get away. Even after those hunting him went TO the WH to plead of help and were turned down.

Again, your claims of my 'lying' hold no muster with me or the facts. You're parsing. You just hated when Clinton did that, didn't you?

The liar is you, ROB

Where have I lied? I have not said one thing on this blog that is not true.

But you said a CIA kill team (whatever the fuck that is) had Bin Laden in their sights, meaning they had located him and would kill him if only given the order, but that order was never given by the White House.

Then instead of admitting you got the story wrong, you try to blame my situation as a parent for your bullshit post about kill teams and the White House letting Bin Laden get away?

Grow a pair of balls, and admit you were at least wrong about what you posted and what the story said.

That's not exactly "in their sites," AU. More like knowing he's in torah borah and wanting to put a slowly shrinking fence around the province in order to eventually come up with him.

Up until that point, your argument was solid. Then you overplayed your cards.

Posted by Hagbard_Celine

Just me parsing your words huh AU...

Fucking Italics...

An interesting letter from today's NY Times:
To the Editor:

Senator Barack Obamas plan for Iraq-- is not so much a plan as a lawyerly attempt to paper over the difference between his stated position and what the reality in Iraq may require.

Senator Obamas stated position was and is that he will begin removing combat troops from Iraq immediately upon taking office and complete the process within 16 months. He has never told us how the period of 16 months was arrived at and what military analysis supports it. Why not 12 months? Or 24?

Nevertheless, the senator now seeks to temper the rigidity of his position with assurances that he would consult with commanders on the ground and the Iraqi government.-- But he does not address the crucial question of whether such consultations might result in an extension of the 16-month withdrawal period.

An affirmative answer would drive many of his supporters into a frenzy, but the absence of one deprives his assurances of any meaning.
Douglas M. Parker, South Orleans, Mass., July 14, 2008

ROB

I'm more of a man than you are yet.

You wanna parse. I mourn the tens of thousands killed and wounded because of the inept and misguided actions of the Bush Administration following 9/11.

Justice would be catching Bin Laden and Zawahiri and killing them. We had our chance.

7 years later, no can do. THIS is America? Where we can't catch our #1 enemy and go to the wrong country for the wrong reasons for weapons that didn't exist and we're still there 5 years after this administration said we'd be long gone?

Sorry, dude. You either need to face facts or just continue to waste time on your nowhere merry-go-round of spin that flies in the face of facts everyone in the world but you will acknowledge just to be a twit. Get some sleep. Hope the little one's letting you get a little now and then.

Obama's plan is the right direction.

Kerry said it in 2004. We attacked the wrong country.

Anyone who can't link our lack of success in Afghanistan because we're stretched to the hilt in Iraq is out of their minds.

They'll be the ones to bitch the loudest about paying for it when the bill comes due too. Sick.

Just me parsing your words huh AU...

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

Damn it, Rob... why can't you let me choose my level of involvement in this discussion?

Eh... give me another week, I'll be Hagbard "worse than Corky" Celine... If I'm not already.

Non Serviam,

HC

Read the Front Page thread article about the Karachi fighters turning their sights from Pakistan to Afghanistan .

More guns aimed at a force in Afghanistan that needs help, but can't get it because our resources are tied up in the wrong country.

ROB

You're parsing history for the sake of something to do for a few hours.

Meanwhile, tens of thousands are dead or wounded while you sit all comfy killing time.

Anyone who can't link our lack of success in Afghanistan because we're stretched to the hilt in Iraq is out of their minds.
Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Now this I fully agree with.

For a while I used to fantasize about visiting Disney Land, Kabul.

notice how media organizations that only 3 or four years ago were"beacons of truth"according to the left when they were bashin bush are "shills for bush admin" now-----simply because they report something positive about pres.
jasman

would love to see the august 2001 warning that says planes would be used as weapons...

A clandestine source said in 1998 that a Bin Ladin cell in New York was recruiting Muslim-American youth for attacks.

We have not been able to corroborate some of the more sensational threat reporting, such as that from a [deleted] service in 1998 saying that Bin Ladin wanted to hijack a U.S. aircraft to gain the release of "Blind Shaykh" Umar 'Abd al-Rahman and other U.S.-held extremists.

Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.

An exodus begins

Meanwhile, in the weeks following bin Laden's arrival at the Tora Bora caves, morale slipped under the constant air assault. One group of Yemeni fighters, squirreled away in a cave they had been assigned to by the Al Qaeda chief, had not seen bin Laden since entering on Nov. 13.

But they say bin Laden joined them on Nov. 26, the 11th day of Ramadan, a warm glass of green tea in his hand. Instead of inspiring the elite fighters, he was now reduced, they say, to repeating the same "holy war" diatribe.

Around him that day sat three of his most loyal fighters, including Abu Baker, a square-faced man with a rough-hewn scruff on his chin."[Bin Laden] said, 'hold your positions firm and be ready for martyrdom,' " Baker told Afghan intelligence officers when he was captured in mid-December. "He said, 'I'll be visiting you again, very soon.' " Then, as quickly as he had come, Baker says, bin Laden vanished into the pine forests.

Between two and four days later, somewhere between Nov. 28 to Nov. 30 - according to detailed interviews with Arabs and Afghans in eastern Afghanistan afterward - the world's most-wanted man escaped the world's most-powerful military machine, walking - with four of his loyalists - in the direction of Pakistan.

On Dec. 11, in the village of Upper Pachir - located a few miles northeast of the main complex of caves where Al Qaeda fighters were holed up - a Saudi financier and Al Qaeda operative, Abu Jaffar, was interviewed by the Monitor. Fleeing the Tora Bora redoubt, Mr. Jaffar said that bin Laden had left the cave complexes roughly 10 days earlier, heading for the Parachinar area of Pakistan.

Jaffar, whose foot was blown off by a cluster bomb, was traveling with his Egyptian wife. He stayed in Upper Pachir one night, before fleeing north, then east toward the famed Khyber Pass.

Intelligence lapses or flawed strategy?

Pir Baksh Bardiwal, the intelligence chief for the Eastern Shura, which controls eastern Afghanistan, says he was astounded that Pentagon planners didn't consider the most obvious exit routes and put down light US infantry to block them.

"The border with Pakistan was the key, but no one paid any attention to it," he said, leaning back in his swivel chair with a short list of the Al Qaeda fighters who were later taken prisoner. "And there were plenty of landing areas for helicopters, had the Americans acted decisively. Al Qaeda escaped right out from under their feet."

The intelligence chief contends that several thousand Pakistani troops who had been placed along the border about Dec. 10 never did their job, nor could they have been expected to, given that the exit routes were not being blocked inside Afghanistan

Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.

Posted by truthhurts

Last month i watched a man videotaping the area in Long Island City, NY where the tunnel under the East River begins for the Long Island Railroad. Nothing there but train tracks.

A clandestine source said in 1998 that a Bin Ladin cell in New York was recruiting Muslim-American youth for attacks.

We have not been able to corroborate some of the more sensational threat reporting, such as that from a [deleted] service in 1998 saying that Bin Ladin wanted to hijack a U.S. aircraft to gain the release of "Blind Shaykh" Umar 'Abd al-Rahman and other U.S.-held extremists.

Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.

Posted by truthhurts

I see a lot of 1998's in this... not a lot of 2001's...

So AU lied again...

How about a link to support your contention that we couldn't remove most of our equipment in 16 months.

Let me see if I have ths straight. First the Boy Wonder submits a bill removing all troops by March of 2008. Beginning the withdrawl by no later than May 1st 2007. Now correct me if I am wrong, but that is only 10 months. How he came to the 16 month time frame from that original De-escalation Act is almost amateurish. Keep in mind this was written prior to the only damn succesful strategy in Iraq. Which again proves how little he knows about Iraq or is beholden to the almighty campaign dollars.


ROB

You're parsing history for the sake of something to do for a few hours.

History? I'm pointing out that in your post on this thread, www.drudge.com that said the CIA had Bin Laden in their sights but the White House wouldn't let them kill him...

Its not true... now maybe its true that people requested additional resources and those resources were denied, but at no point in the Bush Administration has Bin Laden ever been in our military or CIA's sights and the White House said no.

In fact that lone honor goes to the Clinton Administration.

First the Boy Wonder

OH no... you called him "boy." here come the "racist" posts...

The Problem isnt Bin Laden , the problem is Islam. The uncomfortable truth is "ISLAM ISNT IN AMERICA TO BE EQUAL TO ANY OTHER FAITH, BUT TO BECOME DOMINANT. THE KORAN SHOULD BE THE HIGHEST AUTHORITY IN AMERICA, AND ISLAM THE ONLY ACCEPTED RELIGION ON EARTH."

I wonder who agrees more with this statement Obama or Mccain?

"Boy Wonder?"

WTF?!!!!

Racist!

Just figured we could get that out of the way. LOL.

Can we move on, please?

didn't Saudi Arabia offer to send Bin Laden to america and clinton turned the offer down? maybe no 9/11 or iraq if bill would have considered that offer.

It was Yemen I believe.

that was the August 2001 PDB

consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks

In fact that lone honor goes to the Clinton Administration.

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

wish to post a link to this fallacy?

It was Sudan. And the story was false.

From the 9/11 Commission Report:

Former Sudanese officials claim that Sudan offered to expel Bin Ladin to the United States. Clinton administration officials deny ever receiving such an offer. We have not found any reliable evidence to support the Sudanese claim.

Sudan did offer to expel Bin Ladin to Saudi Arabia and asked the Saudis to pardon him. U.S. officials became aware of these secret discussions, certainly by March 1996. The evidence suggests that the Saudi government wanted Bin Ladin expelled from Sudan, but would not agree to pardon him. The Saudis did not want Bin Ladin back in their country at all.

The Saudis did not want Bin Ladin back in their country at all.

Posted by SanAntonioRogue

That's for sure... he was against the complicit saudi royalty as much as he was against the US.

Just an empty gesture from the Sudan.... this is the same Sudanese government today, right?

"I know how to win wars."
Jurassic John
(In New Mexico, today)
www.huffingtonpost.com

I wonder where he thinks he learned how to do that. The Hanoi Hilton?

Bin Laden was in Somalia in early 1993. He claimed Al Qaeda was in on the attacks in Mogadishu.

In December 1992, George HW Bush sent 25,000 American 'peacekeeping' forces, promising to have them out by the time Clinton took office - a promise he reneged on, leaving Clinton with the mess (sound familiar?).

Clinton was getting all kinds of flak from the GOP, it's chief voice John "Jurrasic" McCain, who was calling for the precipitous withdrawal of our forces saying we shouldn't be engaged in 'nation building', and that our forces should come out immediately - within weeks (conveniently omitting the fact Bush 41 sent them there and didn't bring them back as promised). He said we could withdraw 25,000 in weeks (but we can't withdraw 140,000 in 16 months? What?)

He's singing a completely different tune these days over Iraq.

Here's the video of McCain in 1993 about Somalia:

youtube.com">McCain sang a whole different tune in 1993

McCain 1993 over Somalia - a different tune then

Video link above

Amazing that you guys are so concerned with these furious power driven arguments.

Misreading intel reports prior to 9/11 and intentionally allowing terrorists to attack us are 2 different things.

Our government and officials on both sides are corrupt. Maybe moreso than ever in the history of our country.

I remember General Shinseki doing 2 things
clearly.

1)Giving everyone a beret that the Rangers had to earn.
2)Saying we needed about 500,000 troops to secure Iraq/Afganistan.

Answer:Fire his ass.

OBAMAS PLAN FOR IRAQ:

"O the joy of sodomy! So now be sodomites,you Arabs. Turn not away from it-therein is wondrous pleasure. Take some coy lad and ride him as he stands like some gazelle."

Preview of his upcoming speech in Denver.

Semtex et al,

Wrong, it was Bush that was handed offers to leave the country by Saddam and bin Laden's head by the Taliban. Shrub, being the belligerant meathead that he is, ignored those proposals and attacked Iraq anyway. The plan was to turn him into a War Hero on a Navy Ship which would include a Mission Accomplished Banner. Kill innocent people for Shrub's polticial gain, its a plan any Rethuglican would sign up for.

I read this thread with interest...so the Rights Big criticism is that we might not be able to get our STUFF out in 16 months?

Come on you guys can do better than that!

What about the Terrorists swimming over here and killing us in our sleep and all that FEAR shit?

Come on isn't Iraq central to the war on terror?

WTF?

If McCain thinks we could have gotten our 25,000 out of Somalia within weeks, surely he'd be one on the right who, by the math, would think it shouldn't take more than say 3 months to withdraw that equipment from Iraq, right?

It didn't take 16 months for 650,000 troops to withdraw from the ME after Desert Storm. Lots less.

So Obama lays out his plan and all the Right can say is "What about our Stuff?"

You have been crying for years so what is YOUR plan...

Well smart asses here it is a real Plan and all you can say is but, but, what about all our stuff?

weak!

Well, its all bulshit on both sides. The war (s) will still be going on long after I hang up my shootin' irons...

Barry's supporters are always so angry!!

Yeah, Barry is real clear on the issue....

Given the deteriorating situation, it is clear at this point that we cannot, through putting in more troops or maintaining the presence that we have, expect that somehow the situation is going to improve, and we have to do something significant to break the pattern that we've been in right now.

I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse.

We cannot impose a military solution on what has effectively become a civil war. And until we acknowledge that reality -- we can send 15,000 more troops, 20,000 more troops, 30,000 more troops, I don't know any expert on the region or any military officer that I've spoken to privately that believes that that is going to make a substantial difference on the situation on the ground.

And what I know is that what our troops deserve is not just rhetoric, they deserve a new plan. Governor Romney and Senator McCain clearly believe that the course that we're on in Iraq is working, I do not.

Finally, in 2006-2007, we started to see that, even after an election, George Bush continued to want to pursue a course that didn't withdraw troops from Iraq but actually doubled them and initiated a search and at that stage I said very clearly, not only have we not seen improvements, but we're actually worsening, potentially, a situation there.

"I would like somebody who knows about a bunch of stuff that I'm not as expert on," he said, and then he was off and running. "I think a lot of people assume that might be some sort of military thing to make me look more Commander-in-Chief-like. Ironically, this is an area--foreign policy is the area where I am probably most confident that I know more and understand the world better than Senator Clinton or Senator McCain."

Just words....just words....

Besides the fact the Iraqis haven't yet achieved the political goals the surge was designed to give them the chance to achieve, what do you see as the big success gained from the surge?

Yes, neighborhoods that were once diverse are now ethnically cleansed, Sunni and Shia no longer live side by side, barriers are up along with thousands of checkpoints, 1,000,000 Iraqi Christians have been chased out of the country, and everyone's gone to their corners.

When my dad taught me to ride a two wheel bike, we started with training wheels, then his steady hand holding the seat, and one day he let go and I rode on my own. If he had held onto that seat forever I'd have never learned how to do it myself.

The Iraqis are akin to 12 year olds who still need training wheels.

Maybe it's time for someone in the neighborhood to hold onto their seat. We're staying home from work and letting other responsibilities go untended here at home while they seem unwilling to have us let go and do it themselves.

I hope they get it together. But, we don't belong there at even 120,000 troops for another 2 years. Iraq has decimated our ability to respond elsewhere, and Afghanistan is going backwards 7 years on.

Obama is pacifistic, green, dumb as a box of rocks, has terrible judgment, is incredibly pompous, regularly tosses people who displease him under the bus, and flip-flops on his positions depending on whom he's talking to while simultaneously leading millions of liberal zombies around by the nose just by talking about "change" and "hope."

John Hawkins

Planning to Ignore the Facts
By Rich Lowry

At some point, Democrats decided that facts didn't matter anymore in Iraq. And they nominated just the man to reflect the party's new anti-factual consensus on the war, a Barack Obama who has fixedly ignored changing conditions on the ground.

It's gotten harder as the success of the surge has become undeniable, but -- despite some wobbles -- Obama is sticking to his plan for a 16-month timeline for withdrawal from Iraq. He musters dishonesty, evasion and straw-grasping to try to create a patina of respectability around a scandalously unserious position.

Obama spokesmen now say everyone knew that President Bush's troop surge would create more security. This is blatantly false. Obama said in early 2007 that nothing in the surge plan would "make a significant dent in the sectarian violence," and the new strategy would "not prove to be one that changes the dynamics significantly." He referred to the surge derisively as "baby-sit(ting) a civil war."

Now that the civil war has all but ended, he wants to claim retroactive clairvoyance. In a New York Times op-ed laying out his position, Obama credits the heroism of our troops and new tactics with bringing down the violence. Our troops have always been heroic; what made the difference was the surge strategy that Obama lacked the military judgment -- or political courage -- to support.

It's gotten harder as the success of the surge has become undeniable, but -- despite some wobbles -- Obama is sticking to his plan for a 16-month timeline for withdrawal from Iraq.

Translation: we cant leave iraq cause iraq is secure. old story was we cant leave iraq cause iraq was insecure.

flippity floppity

"And yet you never saw the same thing in Bush" being in over his head?

Welll, first you gave us Al Gore. This self-serving blowhard would have bankrupt the country with his global warming fiasco. Then you gave us Kerry. What a joke he was. His grades were lower than Bush's. Ahhhh but he would "do it smarter and better". Doing what never made it into the equation because he had a secret plan. And to this day it is still secret. You would think if he had all these great ideas he would propose one or two of them back at the senate.

So you see Dems, you didn't give the American people a better alternative than Bush. If you had, then Bush would not have been elected nor re-elected. Maybe that is why you praise Obama so much. You are so filled with hope that he will be elected. And God help us if he isn't. I wouldn't be able to take all the whining again.

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