wait a few days; he'll change his mind.

We'll see. Maybe McLame can remember his own name in a couple days....but I doubt it.

I hope Obama sticks to this position. Hello right wing assholes, your lack of diplomacy with other nations has really PAID DIVIDENDS FOR US!!!!

Not sure how that would make a difference. If you think about the security counsel for the UN, having China and Russia involved is part of what makes it so ineffective.

But then it was including the neighboring countries in the negotiations with North Korea that seemed to make a difference.

It seems that when the the countries have common goals as with North Korea, including others is effective.

When the countries have conflicting goals as with Iran, the UN Security Counsel or as one could imagine with the G8 then it is counter productive.

I guess I would hope that the next president would have the ability (judgement) to make such distinctions instead of making sweeping pronouncements.

As some have suggested, there is time for each of them to change their mind.

Russia was a bully nation and the bullied nations steadily slipped from its grasp --- hence to appease Russia from extreme humiliation (which may result in irrational consequences) the G8 absorbed Russia into its fold. (Otherwise Russia doesn't really qualify for the position).

Yea but look at all that real estate they have, not to mention oil and a new economy...

I don't know how you could keep them out if you wanted to - which we shouldn't.

Genuine question: What do we lose by including Russia in the G8? The plus side of improved relations and communications seems self evident.

McCain is an idiot. Foreign policy gravitas my ass.

McCain is an idiot. Foreign policy gravitas my ass.

Posted by BetelG

Ya, didn't ya love it when Lieberman had to correct McCain while he was in Iraq when McCain got Shiite and Sunni, Iran and Iraq mixed up?

He may have known a lot of past history, but at his age I think he's having way too many senior moments.

We don't need Bush/Reagan (the 'mommy' years when he didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground) for a few years. Nope.

Then there's McCain's temper. Nope

Well, the Ruskies are the worlds second largest producer of oil, second only to the Saudis, and also have the second largest excess of production over their consumption.

Should the Saudis also be added to the G-8? Why? What is to be gained or lost?

Remember that the Russians and the Chinese are the countries that vetoed sanctions against the Mugabe regime in Zimbabwe. Are they ready to be included in a group that does abide by certain ethical standards and maoral considerations?

Obama is a neophyte, and seems to have only a very superficial understanding of consequences of certain actions. He's into "giveaway." These countries are actively soliciting participation as providing them with benefits, and their conduct can be made a condtion for inclusion.

But then, Obama's "experience" in negotiations seems to be limited to participating in setting up a youth basketball league, where there was no quid pro quo, securing benefits for his (corrupt) political contributor by dispensing taxpayers' money for dubious projects, and neogtiating a mortgage for himself at favored legislators' rates, where he had a compliant lender seeking to curry favor with him. With Obama, we're sending a boy to play a man's game. He's a novice. And his immaturity seems to be creating a "hem of the garment" complex for him, in which he views himself and his presence as reason for seasoned leaders dispensing with their national interests. Naivete and self-delusion are at work.

JOHNSON

Why do you feel a need to ramble on with long posts full of extremely inaccurate claims?

For instance, you claim Obama got a 'favorable mortgate'.

Geesh, it's been stated time and time again by the MSM , including bank presidents, that giving someone 3/10ths of a point below market rates for a mortgage of over a million dollars is good business, not something they did because of who he was. You don't understand the concept of 'competition' do you?

OK, ramble on

wait a few days; he'll change his mind.

Posted by CLINTONISKING

You're obviously talking about McCain

Remember that the Russians and the Chinese are the countries that vetoed sanctions against the Mugabe regime in Zimbabwe. Are they ready to be included in a group that does abide by certain ethical standards and maoral considerations?

JOHNSON

Bush sure doesn't have a problem borrowing money left and right from the Communist Chinese does he?

You know, the country that backed the Vietcong and North Korea against us?

Yet, they are your idea of a hero.

Amazing and bizarre.

Bush and Co that is

Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2008-07-14 03:38 AM

Bush sure doesn't have a problem borrowing money left and right from the Communist Chinese does he?

You know, the country that backed the Vietcong and North Korea against us?

Yet, they are your idea of a hero.

Amazing and bizarre.

You fellows seem to elaborate statements to have them conform to your ideological precepts.

What does Bush have to do with the prospect of negotiating with them? What does "borrowing money" have to do with the gratuitous presentation of "goodies" to the Russians and Chinese that Obama proposes?

How does "borrowing money" justify inclusion of Russia and/or China in the G-8? What would be the purpose, the quid pro quo?

Obama is worse than a novice as a negotiator. You don't give away the store before the meeting begins. You may or may not recall all of the protocols that preceded our "negotiations" with the North Koreans, including the size and configuration and plaecement of the table, and those seated at it.

You may recall that we considered the negotiations concluded and concessions made by them, and then they did not comply, but wanted more, and delayed for their own purposes.

The Russians and Chinese would pay to be at "the G-8 table." Again, why give them a freebie? They certainly won't sacrifice anything they perceive as in their national interest because they view us as good-natured. It will make them think that we're weak and gullible, and they'll push for more against a pushover, who doesn't understand the process.

Homeboy is out of his class, and is too egotistical to abide by counsel from wiser and more experienced hands. His public proposal indicates his incapacity and unfitness.

Ya, sure. Whatever you say, Johnson.

You claimed Obama got a favorable deal for the wrong reasons. I pointed out he got 3/10ths of a point off because the mortgage was so large - as ANYONE would.

Get used to mouthing "President Obama"

I'm sure you voted for Bush - TWICE!!

Most of the rest of us could spot a moron a mile away. Not you.

So much for your judgment abilities in picking people qualified to be President. It's about judgment.

McCain's changed positions on EVERYTHING to pander to you. You don't care? Fine with me. But, don't pretend to know what you're talking about.

Further JOHNSON, I pointed out Bush has no problem with borrowing hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars from a repressive Communist regime.

That makes you a pinko commie in my book, commie supporter.

The problem with you right wing nuts is you have no memories and are disinterested in anything but pure partisan politics.

You obviously don't care Bush is helping support a repressive Communist regime. And all because he started an unnecessary war we didn't have the money to pay for, yet you cheerled him all the way didn't you?

"Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer."

I'm surprised nobody has brought up that oldie but goodie.

Obama is absolutely right on this one.

Someone asked Albert Einstein once why he had so few words to say. He replied, "Because if you're talking, you're not listening."

This is just one of the many flaws in Bush's failed presidency and no doubt one of the many flaws that Obama wants to eradicate.

Yeah right.

Obammy is going to lose the election by a wide margin. Why? because he looks like every statement he makes is a manufacured talking point designed to be the "ANTI- current policy stance"
without giving any real consideration to each issue. Eventually people will see how disingenous his position statements are.
Yeah right, Obammy - buddy up to Russia and throw shit on Karzi and Afghanistan - real smooth.
UH, note to Obammy : letting Russia into the G8 club has nothing to do with the ability to get them to control their nukes. Why reward their current behavior with membership, let them EARN it first.

"ANTI- current policy stance"

Of course it is. Have you checked Bush's approval numbers lately? They're in Nixon territory.

Anti current policy stance is exactly what the country wants so I think you just made my point.

Thanks a bunch, Bumpkin. LOL

you're a very simple minded foolish boy, aren't you twinpac......
My very coherent point was - you can't just be 100% knee jerk "anti current policy", you have to at least seem like you are thinking thru each issue for what it is and MAYBE sometimes the current policy is where you end up standing.....THAT WAY YOUR OBAMMY would avoid flip flopping later like he did on: Iran Talks, Iraq withdrawal , etc etc etc etc

FREDO

I can tell you haven't read Obama's policy papers, have you?

It's probably just as well.

They're just chock-a-block full of things like capital letters, punctuation marks, sentence structure, three syllable words and a bunch of other stuff that would just confuse you.

So you just hang in, buddy. Personally I think you're a real asset to the Republican campaign and I can honestly say, I wish there were more of you.

"I hope Obama sticks to this position"

The only think you can expect NObama to stick to is whining about anything and everything said about him. It is always the fault of somebody else regardless if he is guilty.

If you expect him to take a position on anything you then are living in fantasy land. He doesn't vote "present" because because he has good judgment.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2008-07-14 04:27 AM

I'm sure you voted for Bush - TWICE!!

Most of the rest of us could spot a moron a mile away. Not you.

Well, congratulations on inserting a self-serving statement. I'm duly impressed with your claimed abilities.

So much for your judgment abilities in picking people qualified to be President. It's about judgment.

McCain's changed positions on EVERYTHING to pander to you. You don't care? Fine with me. But, don't pretend to know what you're talking about.

You are acknowledging then, that his position on including Russia in the G-8 without securing something in exchange is an indication of his having unvetted juvenile opinions, and that his G-8 position is flawed.

Your support of Obama is not for his positions but for his generalized message of "hope," which when content is examined, is seriously flawed.

I agree with you that McCain is a weak candidate. He is not particularly bright, and progressed in the military due to legacy factors. I could enumerate other negative factors concerning McCain, but I'm certain that you not only are aware of them, but have amplified any of his many weaknesses.

I happen to view Obama as far worse. He is a druggie subject to flashbacks. His impairments and confusion are obvious when he enegages in extemperaneous exchanges.

Obama is a long-time racist choosing as a friend and mentor the anti-white, anti-Semitic, anti-American hate-monger Rev. Jeremiah Wright, advocate for blacks separately and above all others, and to the derogation of America. Obama was in bed with bomb thrower and America-hater Bill Ayers, and black racist Nation of Islam leader Minister Louis Farrakhan. Obama cannot divest himself of his past, which is reason to disqualify him as unfit.

Oh, did I mention his wife has a victim mentality and displays a sense of entitlement in her alienation, which reflects the family unit. She has been complicit in exposing her children to the hateful atmosphere of Trinity Church. Hate is the unifying factor for the Obamas. The family that hates together, stays together.

Obama is inexperienced in any administrative activity. His "skill sets" include community organizing, putting together a kid's baseball league, not a logistical learning situation of much consequence. His other "experience" is as a schlock politician dispensing taxpayer dollars to cronies and political supporters, and learning and using the "Chicago Method" of collecting bribes, the "help" he received from Revko, convicted "corrupter," and from the mortgage company that provides "deals" for politicians because ... because, ah, they expect favorable treatment in return as the expense of the constituencies of the politicians.

(cont.)

(cont.)

You see AU, I've also gone far afield. I think that Obama would be an abomination as President. He is not only inept, and probably drug use impaired, and schooled in hate-mongering, but his delineated policy positions are detrimental to this country, everyone else and everything else aside.

I can list many debilites that he suffers. But it seems that your support for his G-8 policy was merely intended as support for Obama generally, rather than indicating that this selected policy position had any merit.

We've been around the block on this, AU. We all know that you support Obama. But what do you think of Obama's G-8 position? All that has issued from you on this is "the sound of silence."