Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Wednesday, July 09, 2008

Grove Parc has become a symbol in Chicago of the broader failures of giving public subsidies to private companies to build and manage affordable housing -- an approach strongly backed by Barack Obama as the best replacement for public housing. A Boston Globe review found thousands of apartments across Chicago that had been built with government subsidies -- including several hundred in Obama's former state senate district -- deteriorated so completely that they were no longer habitable.

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The politics of Hope your house don't fall down while me and my buddies pocket the change.

Campaign finance records show that six prominent developers - including Jarrett, Davis, and Rezko - collectively contributed more than $175,000 to Obama's campaigns over the last decade and raised hundreds of thousands more from other donors. Rezko alone raised at least $200,000, by Obama's own accounting.

"Show me your quid, I'll show you my quo."

--Barack H.

You know what Barak said when 2 of his house fell on him???

"Get OFF me Homes!!!

I don't know, what did your Mom say when a house fell on your aunt?

"Who killed my sister? Who killed the Witch of the East?"


I don't know, what did your Mom say when a house fell on your aunt?


"Who killed my sister? Who killed the Witch of the East?"

Posted by SanAntonioRogue
------------------------------
-----------

^^^The left's idea of funny^^^

The failed policies of the Obama administration.

"^^^The left's idea of funny^^^

Posted by James_Dean"

No dear, you are.

No dear, you are.

Posted by SanAntonioRogue
_________________________


I know. I am the funniest man in the room! (funny HA HA)

I am the funniest man in the room!

~Jumbo Douche

In terms of "smell" and "looks"?

Agreed?

Funny "HA HA"?

Not so much.

FACT!!!1!!1!

Well, at least you think yer funny.

That's a good start.

One in a row.

Be Well.

"~Jumbo Douche"

^^^Thinks Ad-Hominem is the best way to debate^^^

But the Globe account does seem to capture what's most likely to be wrong with an Obama administration. After all, Obama's career has been unusually limited for a presidential contender. Housing and "community development" has been a big part of it. If the result has been a disaster in which Obama's friends made lots of money while his poor constituents lived in dangerous squalor, that seems like a big warning sign, no?

www.slate.com

Big warning sign, indeed!


Why aren't all the usual suspects here defending Obama against the substance of this story?

OBAMAS FAULT!!!

- Desperately reaching for anything repub.



He provides the funds to help and then the PRIVATE owners let them fall into disrepair......this is his fault how?

^^^The left's idea of funny^^^

Posted by James_Dean at 2008-07-08 02:05 PM | Reply | Flag


Like when you put the word 'FACT!' after each of your retarded posts, proving you have no clue what the definition of 'fact' is nor how to use the word.

Using this logic, any and all Military equipment that has failed or crashed during the last 5 years of war is McCains fault. After all, he approved the funds for them!

Obama is and was wrong to support the idea of money being given to developers to build and manage low income housing....it's called Privatization when Republicans do it and it is just as bad when Obama or any other Dem does it. Privatization = Croyism.
Doesn't matter who does it, it's wrong, it's free money for cronies.

Cookfish has caught a big tuna named Barack Obama and he's sizzling on the grill! Good job Cookfish.

So Cookfish must be against privatization, right???
You too FWTHOM??

"Why aren't all the usual suspects here defending Obama against the substance of this story?"

What's to defend? No one is claiming that this particular project didn't go to hell in a handbasket. It's Obama's fault because he recommended the funding for it?

Does he get the credit for all the other projects that turned out well, like Cottage View Terrace?

"Cottage View Terrace received a perfect score in each of nine categories that described the physical condition of the building, including Decent, Safe, Sanitary Housing.-- [IHDA Loan Rating Form 2006, 5/1/2006]"

"According to the audit grades, the overall Management, Physical and Market categories got A-- ratings, including a perfect score for Physical and near perfect for Management. The Financial aspect was .12 off an A-- rating. [IHDA Loan Rating Form 2006, 5/1/2006]"

Obama is and was wrong to support the idea of money being given to developers to build and manage low income housing....it's called Privatization when Republicans do it and it is just as bad when Obama or any other Dem does it. Privatization = Croyism.
Doesn't matter who does it, it's wrong, it's free money for cronies.

Newsflash Danni. People get power and exploit it. Some do it through the government to protect their thievery. Some do it through private business. I'd love to talk to you about the public housing in and around the Detroit area. How well do you think that is going? How do you think it is financed?

One well managed Chicago Project figured out that by limited the black population to 30%, the facilities stayed clean and safe. There is a tip point at which the facilities are abandoned by other ethnicities and quickly become dirty and unsafe.

- It's Obama's fault because he recommended the funding for it?

He also took the money and political help from the developers, his close friends and associates, who made millions on the deals.

This is just a rehash really, of the noxious details of the slumlord business that Hillary pointed out early on, but that the press were too infatuated to follow up on.

Until now, of course. But this story is just like his positions on negotiation, FISA, guns, trade, public financing, maybe Iraq, that we all told you would come back to bite him on the ass in the general, but that most Obamites were too dreamy eyed to see.

I think it's a good post. Obama should be ashamed at the appearance of quid pro quo. The privatization of this kind of thing is bound to cause problems. Will Fwthom, Cookfish, James_Deen-or-whatever-the-
hell-his-moniker-is-this-week agree that the Iraqi parallel to this (the privatization of mercenaries) is also a bad thing?

Obama is no different than Denny Haster or any of the other Repubs. He has his friends they give him money to be elected and he makes sure they get our money.

Dems or Repubs they are all the same, Politicians.

The only reason Obama appears to be different is that he has not been at it as long as others, so there is no paper trail.

Cookfish has caught a big tuna named Barack Obama and he's sizzling on the grill!

Naw, that was just Danni in here.

Corky thinks the Clinton's are squeaky clean apparently. I'd say that stories like this are probably out there involving most politicians who ever sponsored or voted for any legislation.

I'd like an answer to this one...

If you go to a discount car dealer, get a price on a inexpensive car that is about the only thing you can afford, then go get a loan from a bank who was gracious enough to give you the loan in the first place, when the car breaks down because it wasn't well built or because you didn't bother to get the oil changed, do you blame the loan officer at the bank?

No, you blame the manufacturer of the vehicle, or yourself for not maintaining it.

The righties drooling over this inflated piece of shit story are truly a bunch of geniuses, atleast in their own minds.

"Obama is no different than Denny Haster(t)....that is a very low blow....Hastert is/was pond scum.

This is a perfect example of someone playing politics with a situation they have absolutely no knowledge about.

As a real estate/lending attorney, i'm work with historic (federal and state) tax credit, new market tax credits and occasionally low income tax credits. These "LITC" deals (pronounced lie-tech) are VERY common and can be VERY successful in redeveloping a poverty-stricken area. Due to the countless parties involved in these complex transactions (oh my lord are they complex)--local communtiy leaders are key in getting these deals completed. They work their asses off to get them done. There are grants, tax credits, equity investments, low interest loans, etc. from the various community businesses, foundations, cities, etc. It is essentially "free money" for the develolpers to take HUGE risks and develop in depressed areas. Without these incentives, NO ONE would develop these areas.

What happens to these deals AFTER they're completed has much to do with the economy, the success of the developer (in its other projects) and whether or not the area redevelopment "takes hold". These are always very risky business endeavors and not all succeed. The failure of a particular project isn't the local leaders' fault. Their goal is to get as much investment in their area as possible in hopes it will turn around economically. To take a VERY common development incentive system and isolate one area that has not necessarily succeeded and use it for political gain is ignorant and depressingly partisan.


But go ahead and carry on with your partisan bickering.


Pinche Mao

Hi ya tall, dark, and gruesome! How's the lil' shitter?

Nice point __B__, but the righties here won't let it go. They're too invested in hating Obama to see the logic in your post.

Danni, you are right, probably too low a blow. With Hastert (thanks for the spelling help) I could not resist.

The point without invoking pond scum, is that Obama gets money because he helps people, just like any other politician.

That is my point often about Obama, people want to make him out to be something different from every other politian and I do not believe that he is.

Let's take Obama out of it and look at the issues. Raising taxes, growing government, etc. those are not things that I am for. Those who are for them should vote for Obama. But don't vote for him because you believe he is somehow different.

How's the lil' shitter?

Growing like a weed and punchy as hell.

I'll have to send you some pictures.

The politics of Hope your house don't fall down while me and my buddies pocket the change.--
Posted by cookfish at 2008-07-08 01:55 PM

YEAH!

Excellent Point! Up to when one remembers its coming from the same source that:
A)Claims Bush has Thwarted the two other Branches of Government and says Has Gotten Everything He has Asked for--
B)Then claims Bush isnt responsible and its someone elses Fault (the same people he just claimed were outmaneuvered by Bush)
C)Insists Bush isnt Everywhere all the Time-- and therefore not culpable for the results of his own policies!


Once one remembers all that ------ it just sounds like more convoluted Bush World Make-believe!

"Raising taxes"

Actually, I do want taxes raised, I want the Bush tax cuts for the rich to expire. So, I'm voting for Obama for that reason, actually I consider it about the most important issue right now. I believe the economy depends on it.

__B__ :

Thank you for that analysis but Barry is the one trying to use if for political gain, he just had his card pulled and likes to associate and take money from convicted felons. It's all good man, it's not even the end of July and look at the empty suit...


"
Increase the Supply of Affordable Housing
Create an Affordable Housing Trust Fund: Obama will create an Affordable Housing Trust Fund to develop affordable housing in mixed-income neighborhoods.
Fully Fund the Community Development Block Grant: Obama will fully fund the Community Development Block Grant program and engage with urban leaders across the country to increase resources to the highest-need Americans. "

Barry Obama - FISA - Yea

Danni, do you want *your* taxes to increase? Are you expecting to get "something" if Obama is elected?

I guess here is where I have a problem. With the Dems in control I will pay more and see nothing for it. Why would I want that?

Danni, do you want *your* taxes to increase? Are you expecting to get "something" if Obama is elected?

I guess here is where I have a problem. With the Dems in control I will pay more and see nothing for it. Why would I want that?

Shouldn't even be allowed to vote unless you pay taxes. You pay taxes Danni? I know Spud isn't even American so it is a no count anyway.

I'll have to send you some pictures.

Enviamelas tambien. Enviare' las de mi nieta

2fast4u--

How do you know he only did for political gain?


If i'm working with a local alderman to push the City to move faster on a deal that needs to close very soon, does it matter that this individual is ultimately doing this so he can take credit politically for the project???? The important thing is the local leader is working hard to push important project for his area. And you know what--if this alderman asks me to go to his fundraiser during his next election to help him out--you bet your ass i'll be there. It isn't quid pro quo, it is helping those who do a good job helping your community.

That is the whole ploy of the Dems, to get more and more people dependent on them and the gov. Then they will continue to be in power because once people become dependent on the gov taking from others to give to them they are afraid of having to make it on their own, so they continue electing the Dems.

It is all a power play by the Dems. They want power, they use people to obtain that power.

Then he has nothing to worry about does he?

-I'll have to send you some pictures.

Check your mail

haven't seen any posts about him letting Access Hollywood interview his kids yet... I'm sure he just did that for his Daughter's 10 year Birthday present, not political gain. He's a politician and his motives are always to be questioned...

My Kids are Cute, don't you think? Paid for by - Barry Obama

It is all a power play by the Dems. They want power, they use people to obtain that power.
Posted by sawdust at 2008-07-09 03:31 PM


YEAH!

That goes without saying!

But this year in the eyes of most Americans it less about empowering Dems and More about De-Powering these cretins who are prancing about calling themselves republicans--!

"haven't seen any posts about him letting Access Hollywood interview his kids yet."

Look again.

www.drudge.com

This is generally speaking good for the economy--the gov't working with the private sector to improve an area with housing.

We could all agree that the gov't can't do anything right--nothing works under a Bureaucracy.

But there has to be transparency with who is doing the deals and including who is making the investments.

And when the area is improved--the residents have to care about its continued improvement. Or it fails.

What is with Obama and his magic number of 500 million on any program he talks about when pandering to the populace??

First it is Faith Based --wants to expand 500 million and now this housing earmark? How is this stuff supposed to be paid for?


And Danni--you are crazy to buy into class warfare about taxes.

If you want to pay more--go right on ahead.

"With the Dems in control I will pay more and see nothing for it. Why would I want that?"

If you want to see what you got you got to go over to Iraq. The money has already been spent. Now we either start balancing the budget and paying our bills or our money won't be worth anything.
The money you save in taxes will evaporate to inflation.

Redneckville, I have to agree, and for that matter I am upset with the Repubs. I wish there were a viable third party. Preferably some form of Libertarian.

"We could all agree that the gov't can't do anything right--nothing works under a Bureaucracy."

Baloney. We have the military, social security administration, Medicare, on and on. What is really true is that PRIVATIZATION has not worked, has cost us more than what we would have paid to have the government do the same services.

"And Danni--you are crazy to buy into class warfare about taxes."

Sorry Murphy, Reagan started the Class War not me but it is real and yes taxes are an important part of it. Face it, the Republicans have been trying to destroy the New Deal since FDR's days, nothing new here.

"Then he has nothing to worry about does he?"


Not unless fricken idiots fail to understand what is going on. Just take your partisan hats off for ONE FRICKEN SECOND.


"He's a politician and his motives are always to be questioned."


Then i hope you also continually question McCain's motives/actions. But i'm sure you've already overlooked and dismissed his role in the Keating 5. And I'm sure his sudden turn for campaign finance reform had NOTHING to do with the fact that it was his ONLY hope of staying in politics.


They're POLITICIANS. I don't give a shit WHY they're trying to do good for their community/country---all i care is that they're trying to do good for their community/country. My guess is that both McCain and Obama have done what they've done for their love of this country AND to increase their political power (partially so they can do MORE good for this country).

I stand corrected. These guys will do anything to be President.

Danni,

Actually, I do want taxes raised, I want the Bush tax cuts for the rich to expire. So, I'm voting for Obama for that reason, actually I consider it about the most important issue right now. I believe the economy depends on it.

I am confused here, letting the tax cut for the rich expire is not raising taxes.

Raising taxes is probably the WORST thing that can happen for the economy. In fact the best thing is to create a tax cut but for whom is the important issue.


"These guys will do anything to be President."


So long as "anything" is their continual effort to better this country in ways that i believe are acceptable and/or admirable---then they have a shot at getting my vote.

Why aren't all the usual suspects here defending Obama against the substance of this story?

As a general rule, responding to bad news about your candidate takes time. It's easy for McCain backers and at least one Clinton backer to jump all over this, because it reinforces what you think of Obama.

The idea he might be funneling housing subsidies to cozy developers while the residents of those homes suffer is not a pretty picture. I hope there's more to it.

__B__ - Woah! It's Wine-0-clock somewhere, eh? Grab a few at lunch and then put your angy eyes on did ya?


Thanks, but I'd rather not base my vote on your guess that they love their country. If you want to take partisanship out of it, then you made a wrong mouse-click there chief. Figures that a real estate attorney would be naive, explains a LOT in this market.

BTW, I did the UCASE thing for you but added a bold - top that...moron.

social security administration, Medicare, on and on
POSTED BY DANNI
------

It's amazing that you idiots point to Social Security and Medicare as some sort of government triumph. How long till SS is bankrupt? How many people on Medicare can't find a doctor who will take that crap? What a joke of a government we have if those are the best examples you can come up with.

Also the military is good at killing but wildly wasteful when it comes to spending money. So you can take that off the list as well.

As for "on and on", good luck listing another one.

"you are crazy to buy into class warfare about taxes."

You're joking, right? Of course it's class warfare and of course the wealthy have won it. Are you frickin' blind to what's been happening the last 7 years?

-I hope there's more to it.


There's lots more to it, most of which was laid out in Chicago papers ad nausem (and here, btw), but was ignored for the most part.

www.suntimes.com

Moneywar---

Obama is going to allow some taxes to expire, renew some, raise some others and cut some others.

A greater percentage of the population will receive a tax cut under Obama's plan. That being said, i do NOT approve of raising the capital gains tax. I'd only be somewhat ok with raising it to 20%--but above that is pretty stupid, IMO

Obama's Housing Subsidies Left Thousands in Squalor

Chicago's efforts to do something about its public housing nightmare are a very, very big deal, involving 25,000 units of housing, huge numbers of public housing residents, enormous sums of money, and vast tracts of land, some of it quite desirable. Any project of this magnitude is going to have a whole lot of moving parts, and it will operate under a lot of constraints: political, financial, and so on. Especially in a city with a reputation for, um, interesting approaches to public management, I would be astonished to find that absolutely everything had gone swimmingly. What I would really like to know, therefore, is: how many of the projects went bad? Whose projects were they? Is the number better or worse than one would expect? And why, exactly, didn't they work out?

Moreover, one way to look at the results is to notice that no solution to this problem looks particularly enticing. As I noted above, the government didn't do a good job of running public housing. If the cases cited in the Globe article are representative, public-private partnerships weren't all that great either, though they'd have to get a lot worse before they rivaled some of Chicago's old projects. But vouchers also have problems -- see this Atlantic article, which argues that when public housing residents are dispersed using Section 8 vouchers, crime often follows.

Before I'd be prepared to criticize someone for supporting public-private partnerships for affordable housing, I'd want to know what alternative the critic has in mind, and what reason there is for thinking that it would be better. It's not enough to say: gee, this didn't work so well, if nothing else works better.
Olmstead

Among those tied to Obama politically, personally, or professionally are:
blah,blah,blah

Among those tied to McCain personally, professionally, AND politically are George Bush and Dick Cheney and the rest of the republican party. An incurable political condition.

"That being said, i do NOT approve of raising the capital gains tax."

I heard a discussion about it the other day, it was interesting. They brought up the fact that investment in the stock market does not create jobs. The only investment that creates jobs is the initial investment into a business, or infusions of capital into the business. Once the stock is sold on the stock market then any trading of that stock only effect the person who owns those shares. Thus much of the reasoning behind keeping taxes lower on capital gains than labor don't really make any sense.

Money--

Letting the tax cuts expire is a tax increase.

Obama also wants to tax capital gains, dividends, estate taxes, windfall profit taxes, and anything not bolted down.

Danni--name something that works that the gov't is responsible for?

Is the education system working? Lots of folks graduating that can read and write?

How about the FAA, TSA, anything airline, cargo or the ports, health care, the friggin borders, how about the railroad--Amtrak--really working great on that system?!

How about with NASA? The gov't got involved and phucked that program up as well.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac--bang up doing great gov't programs that are part of the problems.

Over-bloated gov't departments that have lots of people that do nothing but push paper.

Dept of Labor--has 17,000 employees--what the heck do they do?? That is just one department.

There is so much abuse waste fraud in the gov't--that if they wanted to save money they should start there.

We can get a balanced budget without raising taxes--cut out the friggin pork, fraud, abuse, and waste.

Obama wants to stifle the economy with his raising of taxes. And at least McCain would stop the pork. That man is stingy.

I wish there were a viable third party. Preferably some form of Libertarian.

Posted by sawdust at 2008-07-09 03:43 PM

AGREED!

But unfortunately as long as we have Clowns the Caliber of Neil Boortz out there waving the "libertarian" flag no one will ever take it seriously (I encapsulated Libertarian in quotes because Neil is NO real Libertarian but rather a for hire Mush Mouth with a Reading Disability and the Cognitive skills of an Infant)!

"Letting the tax cuts expire is a tax increase."

Murphy,

A direct question: who wrote that tax increase into the law?

"If you want to take partisanship out of it, then you made a wrong mouse-click there chief."

I come here to discuss politics. Once in a while you can actually find a thread that will discuss these issues intelligently. Sometimes i'll try to steer them in an intelligent direction. Sometimes i'll just play in the mud with the rest of the partisan hacks. But at least I and some of the others who purposefully troll around here pushing everyone's buttons understand what is actually going on and aren't duped by bullshit political dissonance.


"Figures that a real estate attorney would be naive, explains a LOT in this market."

Naive, eh? Wow. Comical. And by the sounds of it, you must really know what is going on in this market and why. Hilarious.

Danni--stocks are investments for people for the future.

And that is another screwed up program that keeps people poor--SS.


Frankly poor people don't pay taxes--yes they pay sales tax--but income tax--not much if any.

We should be allowed to pay some of our SS monies into a personal retirement account. So it is ours and not the gov't to raid and put in IOU's.

That way the money would be left to the family after death. And that money should not be taxed.

The gov't could also guarantee that if folks opted for the PRA they would still get the percentage that folks get who don't opt into the program.

The Ryan-Sununuu (?) bill should have passed and that program would at least be repaired--without raising taxes.

But that is the answer to everything for the Dems--raise taxes--income redistribution.

Danni--

My problem with increased capital gains rates doesn't just stem from job creation. But, to play ball here:

"The only investment that creates jobs is the initial investment into a business, or infusions of capital into the business."

This ignores the reinvestment of these funds once are freed up at the sale. Remember, a capital asset isn't just stock. It can be membership interests, real property, etc. Most businessmen who cash out use these funds for their next endeavor.

This also ignores the profit calculations businesses use when they decide whether or not to invest. If they aren't getting a good enough rate of return, the project won't happen. And taxes are always part of this calculation.

Of course Obama is a fake and a shill. You don't get to the top of either party without being one.

The only reason why this doesn't piss me off more than it does is that this isn't even the lowest we've seen. That has to go to the people who gave no-bid Iraq contracts to their friends.

"that program would at least be repaired--without raising taxes."

What program have you repaired, and how? The plan is still underfunded (you're about $2 trillion short), and your suggestion of privatizing into tax-free accounts would only exacerbate the problem.

You haven't fixed anything: you've made it worse, and put a further burden on the younger generation by shackling them with both their parents' retirements, and their retirement.

"I come here to discuss politics." __B__

Bull, you came here to shill for Barry - you're a political junkie partisan hack just like everybody else on this site.

"Naive, eh?" - yeah, you still think those two assclowns (word of the week) give two shits what you think, I'd say that's pretty naive.

"...assclowns (word of the week)....

Posted by 2fast4u at 2008-07-09 04:48 PM"

Yeah, if "the week" is July 9-16, 2001.

"But that is the answer to everything for the Dems--raise taxes--income redistribution."

Murphy, another direct question: Do you view the tax cuts of the last 7+ years as income redistribution the other way?

Dan--the SS program when first started was 42 people paying for every one person collecting benefits.

Now it is down 3 to 1. Pretty soon it will be 2 to 1.

The congress does not reinvest the money that folks pay into this pisspoor return account. They give IOU's.

So the money is not there and that means we get to pay twice.

By 2017 SS will start running cash deficits each year. It is set to run out in 2042. Taxpayers will have to cough (literally) up about 6 trillion to pay off the trust fund bonds.

Maybe before bashing something you could read what the bill would have done.

First it would belong to the person and the rest of the program would still be intact. Second--the phucking congress has to keep their friggin hands off the money.

Even workers with the lowest incomes would be able to give their family a major financial boost. This would be money spent --capital--into the inner city and other poor communities in the country. This would give to higher educations, small businesses, construction--shoot a addition to the house--you name it.

Instead when you die--your family gets nothing.--what 250 bucks to bury your ass.

Dan--tax cuts free up money for investments, expanding businesses and yes--new jobs.

The gov't (both sides) spend money on crap!

They waste it abuse it and spend it on crap.

That pretty much sums it up.

OMG! Did Obama make a mistake?

Well, that's it then! No way I am voting for him now!

Gosh Murhpy you are soooo right! I see it clearly now!

WE need to get McCain in the WH for who has done so much for the poor in this country with his awesomely powerful and caring financial advisor, but Phil Graham hisself!

www.motherjones.com

Yeah, that Phil Graham, he can fix this housing mess!

After all... he helped make it!

He also masterbated as a kid. ohhhhhhh!!!

"Bull, you came here to shill for Barry - you're a political junkie partisan hack just like everybody else on this site."

Not at all. I was originally a Hillary supporter--but ultimately grew tired of her divisive political tactics. I support Obama, but i don't think he's the second coming--he's just a few steps in the right direction. While i'm not a McCain supporter--i think he's a step better than our current administration (not that is very difficult).

Despite what you think--i do enjoy talking politics--mostly with people who disagree with me. I tend to enjoy those discussions much more--it challenges my beliefs and allows me to challenge others. I even learn something new once in a while. You can try to label me as a shill, a hack, or whatever all you want, i couldn't care less. I'm not dumb enough to think someone like you are capable of being swayed by logic, facts or rational thoughts.

""Naive, eh?" - yeah, you still think those two assclowns (word of the week) give two shits what you think, I'd say that's pretty naive."


I never said they care what i think. I suppose you do need to put words in my mouth if you're going to try to stick bullshit labels on me. Nice try 2Slow4me

"I was originally a Hillary supporter--but ultimately grew tired of her divisive political tactics. I support Obama, but i don't think he's the second coming--he's just a few steps in the right direction."

Ditto, on both points.

__B__:
nice first paragraph in your 5:32 post.



Obama wants to stifle the economy with his raising of taxes.

Posted by MURPHY

Yes, murphy. Obama's goal is to stifle the economy.

Are you really that stupid?

"Obama wants to stifle the economy with his raising of taxes"

well Murphy,
my tax cut under McCain's plan is 1005.00
while my tax cut under Obama is 1201.00

I rather like that extra 200.00, so explain to me why my getting a better break under Obama is not good for me!

***** If the result has been a disaster in which Obama's friends made lots of money while his poor constituents lived in dangerous squalor, that seems like a big warning sign, no? ******

........sounds like he's a secret Republican.......


**** Using this logic, any and all Military equipment that has failed or crashed during the last 5 years of war is McCains fault.
Posted by COMMONSENSE *****

......but...but...but....Vern and Chair said it was the blow job causing the helicopter failures...

Now that is experience you can HOPE on.

Yes You Can!

CHANGE is on the way.

Amen

""Government is just not as good at owning and managing as the private sector because the incentives are not there," said Jarrett, whose company manages more than 23,000 apartments. "I would argue that someone living in a poor neighborhood that isn't 100 percent public housing is by definition better off.""


"Affordable housing run by private companies just doesn't work," Mahru, who no longer works with Rezko, said in an interview with the Globe. "It's difficult, if not impossible, for a private company to maintain affordable housing for low-income tenants."

The real story of this story is obama's lying. Tony Rezko got his start in RE because of obama, and obama got his start due to rezko. PLEASE NOTE OBAMA'S "I DIDN'T KNOW" excuse is a very old line for him!!!!!

"But Obama has contended that he knew nothing about any problems in Rezmar's buildings.

After Rezko's assistance in Obama's home purchase became a campaign issue, at a time when the developer was awaiting trial in an unrelated bribery case, Obama told the Chicago Sun-Times that the deterioration of Rezmar's buildings never came to his attention. He said he would have distanced himself from Rezko if he had known."

He's a lying sack of shit!!!!!!

Danni races to defend obama by attacking rep's and the system. So obama's all about politics of old???


WHERE'S THE CHANGE DANNII???

Davethewave, is full of crap.

Private industry could maintain affordable housing but they are too greedy, and don't have the same goals as the government.

But you always seem to leave that little bit of info out of the picture.

"Maybe before bashing something you could read what the bill would have done."

I did. You didn't. I know what the bill "does", but you're still $2 trillion short...where's that coming from?

And you still haven't answered either of my direct questions:

1. Who wrote the law increasing taxes via the expiration of tax breaks?

2. Do you view Bush's tax cuts as income redistribution the other way?

Posted by __b__ at 2008-07-09 03:28 PM

The important thing is the local leader is working hard to push important project for his area. And you know what--if this alderman asks me to go to his fundraiser during his next election to help him out--you bet your ass i'll be there. It isn't quid pro quo, it is helping those who do a good job helping your community.

Yes, I know what's happening in that "market," b., and it isn't "good intentions" that are prevailing. It's a bunch of people with private agendas intended to suit their particular wants, who are attempting to use taxpayers' dollars to fund an otherwise unfeasible project and get their "take."

Buildings don't make slums. People make slums. So long as these "projects" are inhabited by people, who are on the dole because they are dysfunctional members of this society, the "projects" will deteriorate in a short time.

This process to which you refer is just a ritual for extracting money from the taxpapers using the politician as a conduit. It's an orchestrated ripoff which is contrary to ethical precepts and is perpetrated by people who seem to lack integrity, but who have created a gig that is nevertheless "legal," which means they don't face criminal sanctions for their conduct.

It seems that the Revko projects entail securing allocation of the start-up money, building the projects, and then leaving. I don't find Revko at fault as much as the politicians, who know or should know the inadequacies of their electorates and the fact that the projects are just makework. Provisions for maintaining the project are at best indadequate, and acknowledging the nature of the inhabitants, probably impossible to devise. A cynical person might just think that these enterpreneurs and politicians were in it for the front-end benefit to themselves.

Perish the thought.

By the way, is Obama a saint yet, or is he only at the beatification stage?

You wonder that people and institutions are so loving and helpful to politicians. Could it be that there is a prospect of return for demonstrations of affection?

You do know of the scandal where Congresspersons, Senate and House, have received "benefits" in the form of sweetheart loans on their homes.

Well, guess, who was invited to that dance and accepted. Why Candidate Obama is paying some $300 per month less on his trust deed than was the going prevailing rate at the time of his acquisition of the property.

I hesitate to use the word "purchase" because of all of the hanky-panky involved. But then, Obama is a Chicago and Illinois politician, and that's the "my hand-is-out" crowd.

Let's see, LBJ was into pressuring the FCC group as his wife acquired a media empire. Senate Majority Leader, Harry Reid, lives in Nevada, a desert state, and property he acquires sometimes miraculously becomes awash in water through some government project or other, enhancing the value of those properties.

But yes, Obama, Reid, LBJ are all altruistic, and as politicians using and abusing power, have learned the ways of using other peoples' money (OPM) for their own advantage.

Say "Hallalujah." We need to recognize the sacrifices of these public servants, and realize that they'll do anything to buy a vote, even if it means impoverishing you, and giving the product of the provident to the improvident, also described as "needy," which evokes all sorts of charitable feelings.

Johnson-
Obama is paying less than the "average" rate. So am I. (You understand that "average" means that some are below and some above, or does your hatred shut off your brain when it comes to Obama?)

"This process to which you refer is just a ritual for extracting money from the taxpapers using the politician as a conduit. It's an orchestrated ripoff which is contrary to ethical precepts and is perpetrated by people who seem to lack integrity, but who have created a gig that is nevertheless "legal," which means they don't face criminal sanctions for their conduct."


Spoken like a person who is completely clueless and lacks any sort of understanding of what is going on. And i thought i was cynical. Yikes.

It's ok though, i'm sure it make you feel better--this is just something else you can bitch and complain about.

I'm sure that Obama and the dems will have some more great Federal programs like this one lined up for us when they are elected. They're so "progressive" that when they're done we'll be a third world country.

Posted by BetelG at 2008-07-11 08:47 PM

Obama is paying less than the "average" rate. So am I. (You understand that "average" means that some are below and some above, or does your hatred shut off your brain when it comes to Obama?)

Sorry Betelg, I "misspoke." He got a "sweetheart deal," the same as the other Seantors who have been under the gun.

It's corruption if you receive special treatment for holding public office.

Where I live for the state legislators, most of it is petty, basketball tickets and meals and the like, but they receive "gifts" from lobbyists, and other interests, whose job and intent it is to influence legislation.


"Obama is paying less than the "average" rate."

But it was twice the largest amount one can typically get a loan for (600K). His loan was for 1.3Million....

Think bigger, Andrea. The loan on my AZ house was 924,000. Not that hard to do.

And the guy who bought it from me got a loan for 1.2 mil.


And neither of us are dem senators.

Posted by __b__ at 2008-07-11 09:33 PM

Spoken like a person who is completely clueless and lacks any sort of understanding of what is going on. And i thought i was cynical. Yikes.

Gosh b., I was in that business among others for years, and now I suppose that it;'s been tranformed and the players are all altruistic fellows. It's a game and if you're in it and don't know it, that's okay. there are many unenlightened innocents involved as peripheral participants.

These government programs are riddled with corruption. It's interesting that so many posters are carping concerning the profiteers, who have exploited the Iraq war, but are oblivious to the endemic corruption in politics, especially the politics of transfers of assets to special interest groups in return for votes, the sustenance of the black constituency, the corruption involving zoning and developers, the subsidization of sport arenas.

It's ok though, i'm sure it make you feel better--this is just something else you can bitch and complain about.

No, I don't feel better since I haven't accomplished anything. Obama is proposing special confiscatory taxes on people with incomes of more than $250,000, is it, so as to provide bread and circuses to his constituency of unerachievers. I suppose that this is a more sophisticated process than buying votes the old-fashioned way, coal down the shuttle, food baskets, government employment without needing to work, all sorts of things. Now there are welfare programs, and special projects that reward corrupt politicians and "activists, like "Shakedown Jesse" Jackson.

And remember that Obama got his initiation as a "community activist" shakedown artist, organizing "community" members using racial hostility as a unifying factor, and demanding something for nothing. Well something so as to keep the peace and avoid disruption of productive activity. Obama is an experienced shakedown artist in the old traditional way. Gimme. Gimme. Gimme. And I'll provide votes, and I'll ikeep the peace. Will I contribute anything productive. Huh? that's foreign to my outlook. I'm in shakedown. Remember.

Since you seem to have selected "slopping at the public trough" as your field of law, I can only wish you personal success. I'm certain that your efforts will succeed in securing money for "projects" that cater to the constituencies, whose votes are solicited.

"In 2000 Davis asked the nonprofit Woods Fund of Chicago for a $1 million investment in a new development partnership, Neighborhood Rejuvenation Partners. Obama, a member of the board, voted in favor, helping Davis secure the investment."

But the article doesn't COMPLETE the story quoted above.

1) Allison Davis was NObama's former boss.
2) NObama didn't disclode this little fact tot the other board members of the Woods Fund, which made a number of them VERY ANGRY.
3) Out of the ONE MILLION dollars granted to Allison Davis by the Woods Fund, he POCKETED $750,000, leaving only $250,000 for the actual work the money was granted for.
4) Allison Davis appointed his SON as Manager of the project, which paid him far more than $250,000 so in fact Allison Davis & his son pocketed ALL of the money that NObama voted to be granted by the Woods Fund.

For all of you NObama worshippers, I really do hope he is elected President so he can do to you what he did to his own constituents.
As far as Sanantonio's BS, all I can say is if you can find 18 buildings that ended up in better shape than they started out as, list them here. That is how many buildings handled by NObama's buddies ended up condemned or repo'ed in just his State Senate District alone. You listed ONE success, so you need to find 17 more if that were humanly possible. I know it isn't since I live outside of Chicago and have been in his district many times. It looks like New York did in the "Escape from New York" movie.
I've counted them myself.
9 buildings are still in use, though their state of repair is not fully known.
6 are condemned and boarded up or torn down.
10 are foreclosed on.
7000 and 7010 S. Sangamon condemned
5751-59 S. Michigan condemned - now a playground.
70th & Peoria St condemned - empty lot now.
62nd St & S. St Lawrence condemned - empty lot now
62 St & Evans - boarded up
3 more condemned on 62nd St but no street level views.
Some of the currently occupied places are 4611 S. Drexel Blvd, a Church and a large Apertment complex across the street from it.
Bottom line is that you can use Google Map to do a street Level view of these places and tell me if you would want to live there.
For most of them I wouldn't wish them on my worse enemy!

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