Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Monday, July 07, 2008

A Clayton County, Georgia, man was behind bars Sunday, accused of killing his 25-year-old daughter because he felt his daughter was disgracing the family.

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Bingo! I win!

Shariah Comes to the U.S.?

YEAH!

Talk about an Oxymoron!

Shariah Law has been in the US for decades ----- it just goes by a different name and sold via the large screen TVs at Mega Churches!

"Shariah Comes to the U.S.?

Yeah...and now it's in jail.

You are such a dumb pussy Nanc.

Please kill yourself.

Murdering your daughter doesn't dishonor your family in this lunatic's world.

Hey Danni, thats because he is a muslim

FACT!

Nanc -- Thanks for the link. Shame on all primitive people who think that their "honor" comes at the price of another's life.

For clarification, Thucydides recorded the history of the Peloponessian Wars, and he went on and on about how Athens and Sparta had their respective "honor" at stake when they initiated the war that would embroil the two accomplished city states for over half a century, and that would lead to the downfall fo Athens. So, sure, "honor" has a long history as a motivator of conflict.

But in this case, as in the case of all honor killings of women in the Muslim world, the family's "honor" is not in the lack of genius or benevolence of a female family member, but it is in personal choice, which demonstrates just how incompatible their society's concept of honor is with the Western world. Is this not a Clash of Civilizations?

Christians do not saw peoples heads' off

TNC,

were you channeling Dennis Miller there?

Christians do not saw peoples heads' off...........................
..............................
..............................
..............................
..............................
..............................
......anymore!

Christians do not saw peoples heads' off...........................
..............................
..............................
..............................
..............................
..............................
......anymore!

------------------------------
--------------

If you are trotting out the "inquisition" as your defense of muslims and the left, you are pretty silly.

FACT!

Is this not a Clash of Civilizations?

No, that would mean that both sides were civilised.

Any side that would murder it's own children in such heinous ways fer such stupid reasons doesn't deserve to be called a civilisation.

Western civilisation, upon consideration, is barely deserving of the name either.

We are all children still.

Bad, stupid, horrible, uncivilised children.

The Human race seriously needs to grow up.

Be Well.

No defense of anyone. Just calling out your bullshit. You lied in this thread and I corrected you.

Don't let it happen again fuckstick.

"No defense of anyone. Just calling out your bullshit. You lied in this thread and I corrected you.


Don't let it happen again fuckstick."
______________________________
_______

Actually I did not lie, YOU did!

FACT!

Neener NEENER!

For clarification, Thucydides recorded the history of the Peloponessian Wars, and he went on and on about how Athens and Sparta had their respective "honor" at stake when they initiated the war that would embroil the two accomplished city states for over half a century, and that would lead to the downfall fo Athens. So, sure, "honor" has a long history as a motivator of conflict.

LOL! Honor as a motivator of conflict? What about "vice"?

Aristophanes, "The Acharnians"

I detest the Lacedaemonians with all my heart, and may Posidon, the god of Taenarus, cause an earthquake and overturn their dwellings! My vines also have been cut. But come (there are only friends who hear me), why accuse the Laconians of all our woes? Some men (I do not say the city, note particularly, that I do not say the city), some wretches, lost in vices, bereft of honour, who were not even citizens of good stamp, but strangers, have accused the Megarians of introducing their produce fraudulently, and not a cucumber, a leveret, a sucking-pig, a clove of garlic, a lump of salt was seen without its being said, "Halloa! these come from Megara," and their being instantly confiscated. Thus far the evil was not serious, and we were the only sufferers. But now some young drunkards go to Megara and carry off the courtesan Simaetha; the Megarians, hurt to the quick, run off in turn with two harlots of the house of Aspasia; and so for three gay women Greece is set ablaze. Then Pericles, aflame with ire on his Olympian height, let loose the lightning, caused the thunder to roll, upset Greece and passed an edict, which ran like the song, "That the Megarians be banished both from our land and from our markets and from the sea and from the continent." Meanwhile the Megarians, who were beginning to die of hunger, begged the Lacedaemonians to bring about the abolition of the decree, of which those harlots were the cause; several times we refused their demand; and from that time there was a horrible clatter of arms everywhere. You will say that Sparta was wrong, but what should she have done? Answer that. Suppose that a Lacedaemonian had seized a little Seriphian dog on any pretext and had sold it, would you have endured it quietly? Far from it, you would at once have sent three hundred vessels to sea, and what an uproar there would have been through all the city! there 'tis a band of noisy soldiery, here a brawl about the election of a Trierarch; elsewhere pay is being distributed, the Pallas figure-heads are being regilded, crowds are surging under the market porticos, encumbered with wheat that is being measured, wine-skins, oar-leathers, garlic, olives, onions in nets; everywhere are chaplets, sprats, flute-girls, black eyes; in the arsenal bolts are being noisily driven home, sweeps are being made and fitted with leathers; we hear nothing but the sound of whistles, of flutes and fifes to encourage the work-folk. That is what you assuredly would have done, and would not Telephus have done the same? So I come to my general conclusion; we have no common sense.

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Any side that would murder it's own children in such heinous ways fer such stupid reasons doesn't deserve to be called a civilisation.

....50 million aborted babies later FJ says, "What??"

again

as a muslim
just because people do it
doesn't make it justified

its not sharia
sharia clearly states that murder is a crime

not only that

but according to sharia law, divorce is legal, on even the smallest of reasons like, my husband is too short.

this guy broke the rules of sharia
islam
and the united states government

and i'm sure will be tormented for the rest of his life at the murder of his own daughter by his own hands while he rots in jail

sharia clearly states that murder is a crime

...but in rendering Judgement's Shari'a law frequently exhonerates fathers who kill their daughters.

according to sharia law, divorce is legal, on even the smallest of reasons like, my husband is too short.

Of course, if the girl refuses to marry her "betrothed" because he's "too short", Dad can simply kill her for disgracing him... and AFTER the wedding, no Imam worth his salt (or shari'a council) would grant such a ridiculous divorce.

meanwhile the guy simply has to say, "I divorce you!" 3x and the marriage is kaput. In Iran, you could conceivable go to a whorehouse and get "married" for fifteen minutes. Woo-Hoo!

Pretty interesting. People want to raise a big ol stinkabou Muslims and Fathers killing their daughers just because they are brown people but nary a word spoken with regards to those Fundamentalist Christians that do the same Al a Andrea Yates. Oh but that's different because She is a Christian. Not so funny dat Be.

Larry Mohr

"People want to raise a big ol stinkabou Muslims and Fathers killing their daughers just because they are brown people "
______________________________
_________________

Andrea Pia Yates (born July 2, 1964) a Houston, Texas resident, is known for the killing of her five young children on June 20, 2001, by drowning them in the bathtub in her house. She had been suffering for years with severe postpartum depression and psychosis. Her case placed the McNaughton Rule, a legal test for insanity, under close public scrutiny in the United States.[1] Convicted of capital murder in 2002 and sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole after 40 years, Yates' conviction was later overturned on appeal. On July 26, 2006, a Texas jury ruled Yates to be not guilty by reason of insanity. She was consequently committed by the court to the North Texas State Hospital, Vernon Campus,[2] a high-security mental health facility in Vernon, Texas

James Dean My point went right over Your head.

Larry

yup, like britain, all we need are a few nutty liberal episcopalians... and voila! we can someday be like britain also - yippy.


James Dean My point went right over Your head.


Larry

I hope you don't consider that an accomplishment Larry. Everyone is doing it.

we can someday be like britain also

You mean like lacking your presence?

Where do we sign?

ROFLMMFAO ManyPaths

"People want to raise a big ol stinkabou Muslims and Fathers killing their daughers just because they are brown people "

Brown? What's brown got to do with anything? Progressives try and turn EVERY discussion into a "race thing". Talk about "dividers"....

Gee a "certified insane" Christian woman kills her kids and THAT is used to justify Muslim's REGULARLY killing their "whore"-duaghters.

Hmmm. One of these things is NOT like the other....

Don't know which is more appalling, the loonie who labels each preposterous outburst as FACT or the one who tries to equate killing a daughter with terminating a pregnancy. herm

btw - I like how under Shari'a law, a woman who "allows herself" to get raped can be sentenced to be gang-raped by the local community.

Hubba-Hubba... I wanna be part of the group that gets to execute THAT sentence. Woo-Hoo!

...or the one who tries to equate killing a daughter with terminating a pregnancy.

Oh, abortion is merely the "termination of a pregnancy." I guess killing a daughter is simply the "elimination of a blemish to one's honor" then.

...only conducted a little "later" in the birth/ education process.

" I wanna be part of the group that gets to execute THAT sentence. Woo-Hoo!"

I know you're kidding but really that is awful.

"Farmer John" - I think he sells liverwurst in the L.A. area - is a little late here. I think we did settle the issue of extending suffrage to fetuses, but I guess he can dredge it up again, and I'll try to set him straight. Meanwhile every sperm is NOT sacred. herm (no rhyme intended)

This is a stupid thread. this act is not accepted and won't be tolerated.

I can't figure out if nanc is suggesting that muslims will somehow get this type of behavior to be legalized or accepted in any way or what.

Posted by herm at 2008-07-07 03:43 PM

I think we did settle the issue of extending suffrage to fetuses, but I guess he can dredge it up again, and I'll try to set him straight.

Ah herm, it's settled in your own mind, but only there. The courts have been whittling away at Roe vs Wade, giving living things that are lives in esse, protection, first from partial birth abortion, and now from late term abortion.

The courts have recognized limits such as 21 years "plus" a live in esse, the period of gestation. And the courts protect foetuses as having "ofe" that can be destroyed by third parties, who are punished for such killing. It is only with the concurrence of the portended "mother" that the killing of the foetus is now exempt, and under limited circumstances.

There were inroads made in depriving the foetus of the right to live, liable to desturction at the behest of other parties, and millions killed as a result. But Eros, life, will triumph over those of you who follow the death cult, whose practitioners are abortionists.

Meanwhile every sperm is NOT sacred. herm (no rhyme intended)

Very few consider the sperm itself to be "sacred," herm. It's when the ovum is fertilized by the sperm that a "being" is created.

herm, keep worshipping your god, Thanatos, and exulting and celebrating that foetuses can still be killed. What else provides you with such joy? It is a peculiar and perverted delight that you seem to enjoy so much.

Meanwhile every sperm is NOT sacred.

I missed that one.....who believes that sperm is sacred??

DAD:
There are Jews in the world.
There are Buddhists.
There are Hindus and Mormons, and then
There are those that follow Mohammed, but
I've never been one of them.

I'm a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is:
They'll take you as soon as you're warm.

You don't have to be a six-footer.
You don't have to have a great brain.
You don't have to have any clothes on. You're
A Catholic the moment Dad came,

Because

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

CHILDREN:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

GIRL:
Let the heathen spill theirs
On the dusty ground.
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.

CHILDREN:
Every sperm is wanted.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

MUM:
Hindu, Taoist, Mormon,
Spill theirs just anywhere,
But God loves those who treat their
Semen with more care.

MEN:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
WOMEN:
If a sperm is wasted,...
CHILDREN:
...God get quite irate.

PRIEST:
Every sperm is sacred.
BRIDE and GROOM:
Every sperm is good.
NANNIES:
Every sperm is needed...
CARDINALS:
...In your neighbourhood!

CHILDREN:
Every sperm is useful.
Every sperm is fine.
FUNERAL CORTEGE:
God needs everybody's.
MOURNER #1:
Mine!
MOURNER #2:
And mine!
CORPSE:
And mine!

NUN:
Let the Pagan spill theirs
O'er mountain, hill, and plain.
HOLY STATUES:
God shall strike them down for
Each sperm that's spilt in vain.

EVERYONE:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite iraaaaaate!

-Monty Python

"but in rendering Judgement's Shari'a law frequently exhonerates fathers who kill their daughters."

can you show me an example

the sharia court absolutely requires 4 witnesses to prove that an act of dishonor (ie consensual sex out of wedlock) occurred


second
a priest is required by sharia to allow a divorce for even a simple reason as "too short"

there are no exceptions, as divorce is not dishonorable in islam... however it is dishonorable in many muslim cultures contradictory to the religous belief

any sharia court that doesn't follow the above practices isn't a sharia court

even still
the father isn't allowed according to sharia to pronounce judgement when a government system exists

further even, its in no way dishonorable to say no to any suitor for any reason

sharia says that a forced marriage is illegal.
yes i know its practiced
but that is culture not islam
islam prohibits forcing a girl to marry
and allows her full rights to say no


and one last thing
the only problem with sharia in this case and why it sometimes lets the father go is because the mother, the only one who at this point has any say for the girl, lets the father go. out of fear or out of necessity (bread winner of family), if sharia was modernized as it should, the state would and should be able to prosecute the father when the mother refuses too, in the case of murder.

Religion.
Nuff said.

Monty Python

Okay, so one person thinks that.

I missed that one.....who believes that sperm is sacred??

"Oh God I am going to cum. Sweet Jesus this feels fucking great!!!!!!!"

Ring a bell?

""Oh God I am going to cum. Sweet Jesus this feels fucking great!!!!!!!"

Ring a bell?"

Posted by Manypaths


Yes, I've heard women say that;
Especially when their thighs didn't cover my ears.

Especially when their thighs didn't cover my ears.

Why do I want to drink a Coke all of a sudden?

"Why do I want to drink a Coke all of a sudden?"

Posted by Manypaths

To rinse the pubes off your uvula?

I found a picture of nanc.

sheikyermami.com

Snickers......

Dr. Pepper......

Bill Hicks Drink Coke

I had an Arab friend, who was born and had lived in the Middle and Near East for many years. He said that the burkha made engaging in adultery without detection, easier to do.

"He said that the burkha made engaging in adultery without detection, easier to do."

Posted by Johnson

Please elucidate.

Posted by Redneckville at 2008-07-07 12:49 PM

Shariah Law has been in the US for decades ----- it just goes by a different name and sold via the large screen TVs at Mega Churches!

Poor fellow, you can't tell the difference between a religion that encourages honor killings of daughters, and Christianity? The one thing you are not burdened with is a functioning mind.

And you're unaware of doctrinal differences? Hopefully. Because otherwise you evoke a great deal of sadness for someone afflicted with your "abilities."

Shucks Redneck, we all know that God is not called "Allah," that there is a Holy Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, and that Jesus is the Son of God. I reckon you ain't no redneck, but are just a wannabe poseur 'cause rednecks know that.

The only difference between Christian and Muslim honor killings is the Muslims do it quicker.

A large number of Christians are perfectly content to sentence their own children to a slow death by disease for the sin of sexual promiscuity.

When there's no real sex education (aka biology and STD epidemiology for pre-pubescent children) pregnancy and STDs happen.

Posted by Zatoichi at 2008-07-07 05:29 PM

Please elucidate.

He came from Jordan, where women did not need to be accompanied by a male relative as a matter of what is compulsory local custom, say in Saudi Arabia.

So, they could wear an udistinguishable burkha as shown in the link in your earlier post Posted by Zatoichi at 2008-07-07 05:16 PM, and would not be distinguishable when visiting someone for an assignation.

It seems that human behavior often mimics that of the bonobos. Opportunity. But didn't Henry VII, was it, decapitate some wives for adultery, which was indeed a dangerous practice for them to engage in his court. And yet, they played the game. Libido. Libido. Libido.

I'm cool with bonobos.

"He came from Jordan"

Well hell.
Every time King Hussein came to Houston he came a lot, too. Us kids (I was in my mid-20's) used to joke about the security and the bimbos.

Posted by Zatoichi at 2008-07-07 04:10 PM

If a sperm is wasted,...
CHILDREN:
...God get quite irate.

I don't know if Monty got his Catholic doctrine right. But then, they're allowed parodist's license.

But since the Church has elected to have its ecclesiastics practice celibacy, there is a great deal of "onanism," or "quasi-onanism" as even without masturbation "seed" would be spilled on the floor. It's a "wet dream" for critics of the Church to pretend that they venerate "seed."

It's the fertilized ovum that partakes of humanity.

I can't figure out if nanc is suggesting that muslims will somehow get this type of behavior to be legalized or accepted in any way or what.

How about this OR this?

How about this OR this?

There are many Righties on this board that would like to see this meathod of executing people.

No courts, no appeals, just a bullet to the head.

They have said so right here on the DR.

Disgusting huh? Republicans and their vindictive ways.....

Henry VIII. what a difference an "I" makes.

Hey, what's the sense in being King if you don't have "the right of the siegneur." Even nobles used to have that. en.wikipedia.org

There was a story afloat regarding the son of Batista entertaining celebrity women on his yacht, Zsa Zsa was reportedly one of them. I think that Kim Novak was another.

And what about Spitzer and President Bill, and whomever. It seems to be a natural proclivity for men with power to use it to have women. As Kissinger once is said to have remarked, "Power is the greatest aphrodisiac."

Gotta go. Take care.

"It's the fertilized ovum that partakes of humanity."

Posted by Johnson

A very few of 'em.

And in the end only the Leonardo's matter.

www.pbs.org

His late nephew and I were very close in the early 60's.
The early TI guys were seriously inspirational.
The physics career goes on ...

Thanks, "Uncle" Gordon.

"but in rendering Judgement's Shari'a law frequently exhonerates fathers who kill their daughters."

can you show me an example

Sure. Murder becomes a "slap on the wrist.


the sharia court absolutely requires 4 witnesses to prove that an act of dishonor (ie consensual sex out of wedlock) occurred

No, it requires four "male" witness or "eight" female ones.... although I'm sure an infidel's testimony is WORTHLESS. From the following source...

"In accordance with hadith, stoning to death is the penalty for married men and women who commit adultery. In addition, there are several conditions related to the person who commits it that must be met. One of the difficult ones is that the punishment cannot be enforced unless there is a confession of the person, or four male eyewitnesses who each saw the act being committed. All of these must be met under the scrutiny of judicial authority For unmarried men and women, the punishment prescribed in the Qur'an and hadith is 100 lashes.

Similarly, under Sharia a woman who is accused of adultery cannot be punished unless there are four male eyewitnesses (or eight female ones, since two females equal one male witness) to prove she did commit adultery."

second

a priest is required by sharia to allow a divorce for even a simple reason as "too short"

there are no exceptions, as divorce is not dishonorable in islam... however it is dishonorable in many muslim cultures contradictory to the religous belief

any sharia court that doesn't follow the above practices isn't a sharia court

Even if it calls itself a Shari'a court? There are four major Islamic fiqh's (systems of jurisprudence under Islam), and they are NOT consistent.

even still
the father isn't allowed according to sharia to pronounce judgement when a government system exists

Who said he was? All I said is that the father was likely to "get off" for the crime.

further even, its in no way dishonorable to say no to any suitor for any reason

LOL! Except that you dad can kill you with VERY LITTLE PENALTY should the daughter try and select her own husband and be spotted on a "date" (by 4 witnesses who'd testify she was an unchaperoned WHORE)

sharia says that a forced marriage is illegal.
yes i know its practiced
but that is culture not islam
islam prohibits forcing a girl to marry
and allows her full rights to say no

Especially when she's 9 years old, like one of Mohammed's wives...

You're sick, kliffy. Your religion is not suitable for civilized men.

and one last thing the only problem with sharia in this case and why it sometimes lets the father go is because the mother, the only one who at this point has any say for the girl, lets the father go. out of fear or out of necessity (bread winner of family), if sharia was modernized as it should, the state would and should be able to prosecute the father when the mother refuses too, in the case of murder.

So you basically ADMIT this happens ALL THE TIME. Thanks for your honesty, klifferd.

well I guess the girl got what she deserved.

"(K)eep worshipping your god, Thanatos, exulting and celebrating that foetuses can still be killed. What else provides you with such joy? ... a peculiar and perverted delight you seem to enjoy."

Who? Is that what Thanatopsis is about? A Repubber making erudite allusions???

"Meanwhile every sperm is NOT sacred. I missed that one; who believes sperm is sacred?"

Monty Python, in "The Meaning Of Life," laying to rest the essential GOP mythology. herm

Herm. Is your cousin Priapus? Jes' wondrin'.

"Herm. Is your cousin Priapus? Jes' wondrin'."

FJ, I'm not related to any fuel-efficient car. I drive a Tantalus. herm

"...we all know that God is not called 'Allah,' that there is a Holy Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, and that Jesus is the Son of God."

Well, no, Johnson, we all don't. But we're sure you'll elucidate us. Actually my denomination teaches that there's onely one god - at most! - and not three.

Throughout history folks have had questions they can't answer. They invent deities, give their deities different names and then kill each other over the result. herm

"You're sick, kliffy. Your religion is not suitable for civilized men."

You suggest, Johnny, that yours IS? How about civilized women? herm

I'm a deist/platonist herm. We founded this country with the Christians. ;-)

Farmer-
You play with the hand you're dealt...

Aren't they allowing Sharia courts to operate in Canada or somewhere?


For this despicable person--he will now see what the rule of law in our country will do to him.

Hopefully he gets the death penalty.

That would certainly give out some Deterrance to others who contemplate honor killings in our country.

Murphy-
re: "Aren't they allowing Sharia courts to operate in Canada or somewhere?"

It's interesting you should ask. A subsidiary of Blackwater just argued that in a US court:

Blackwater asks U.S. judge to use Shariah in ruling

blogs.usatoday.com

Blackwater affiliate seeking legal relief in sharia law

blog.foreignpolicy.com

zat - you would throw rocks at every woman you've ever known if i posted a photo of me! btw - i didn't look.

it's a dayamed good thing y'all're ready to kiss izzie hiney for when the time comes. you'll make fine dhimmis. too bad you don't have the same tolerance for christians and jews.

From the number of comments , it is obvious that this topic still has more life in it.

We have had several Treads on this subject and really, I believe it has all been said.

Muslims are bug fuck nuts.

77 comments all trying to figure out that these wack jobs are crazy?

RALEIGH - To defend itself against a lawsuit by the widows of three American soldiers who died on one of its planes in Afghanistan, a sister company of the private military firm Blackwater has asked a federal court to decide the case using the Islamic law known as Sharia.

www.newsobserver.com

Keith-
Which "wack jobs"? The ones employed by your tax dollars (Blckwater, eg) or the ones whose legal climate they prefer?

I don't know about Sharia Law, but can we get rid of Christian Law 1st?

And where's Rob to complain about the misleading headline?

"And where's Rob to complain about the misleading headline?"

He only whines about headlines written by those left-of-center.


I don't know about Sharia Law, but can we get rid of Christian Law 1st?

Posted by TFDNihilist


All of them?

Eberly-
re: All of them?

That is what Blackwater argues:

www.newsobserver.com

That is what Blackwater argues:

That's seriously fucked up.

Apparently Eric "I'm a CHRISTIAN!!" Prince doesn't want Eberly's "christian law."

Let's see if I have this correct --

Bush's own private army (Blackwater), given a contract with our U.S. tax dollars to transport U.S. military personnel, botched up the flight killing three American servicemen. Now the attorneys for Bush's private army want to use radical Muslim law (Sharia) to screw the three widows of these deceased American military men in order to not have to pay them a dime?

This is why we should never be fighting a war with mercenary soldiers for hire (Blackwater) -- especially with our own tax dollars. Bush has not stopped trying to dismantle our entire government since the day he took office. And Bush has pushed to privatize our military and contracted lucrative war profiteering contracts to the point we don't even know who is responsible for what, when, or where or even under which laws.

I don't know how we will ever get our country back to where it was once was after the worst Administration in U.S. history has finally left the White House. Hopefully we can pick up the pieces -- whatever is left of it that Bush hasn't already privatized and/or sold off -- and try to put it back together again.

tfdn - what "CHRISTIAN" laws are you referring? please be more specific.

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

only applies to people of faith and no one else.

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

doesn't apply to the heathen.

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

christians don't.

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

okay, so we've messed this one up good!

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

yes, go on and live well.

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

check.

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

only applies to people of faith.

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

check.

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

check.

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

we're not in the coveting business.

CC-
Yep. But why do you hate America?

tfdn - have you checked your stupidity meter lately? it appears to be stuck.

BetelgG

Huh?????

BetelG

Or was your comment made tongue-in-cheek?

It was a joke.

By criticizing your elected representatives in a democratic republic you are anti-american, if those you criticize are Republicans.

I thought you knew that.

Posted by Johnson at 2008-07-07 05:59 PM

It's the fertilized ovum that partakes of humanity.

Based on your postings here you missed out on the "partakes of humanity" part.

Citing the 10 commandments as "christian" law is pretty damn funny!

BetelG

The minute I wrote "huh?" I knew the second after I pressed the "publish comment" key what you meant. I should have picked up on it right off the bat because I've always liked your dry sense of humor.

Blackwater has been given a lot of cover by Republicans. Prince is now a Catholic so his final appeal is to the Pope, but his religion is money.

Eric Prince:

Prince serves as vice president of the Edgar and Elsa Prince Foundation. Salon reports that "between July 2003 and July 2006, the foundation gave at least $670,000 to the Family Research Council and $531,000 to Focus on the Family"[15] headed by James Dobson. The foundation is also a major donor to Calvin College[16], a Christian institution in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Prince also serves as a board member of Christian Freedom International, a non-profit group with a mission of helping "Christians who are persecuted for their faith in Jesus Christ."

Eric Prince: "Fuck the widows, but 'Focus on the Family!'"

I'm dumbfounded by the hypocrisy of this slime.


......does anyone know if they have the death sentence for murder in Georgia..??........

Only Muslims do this crazy shit. Why is it not mentioned in the article. We have enogh here now, we don't want to be over run like old Europe.

"77 comments all trying to figure out that these wack jobs are crazy?

Posted by keith204 at 2008-07-07 08:00 PM | Reply | Flag:"

you're saying this is a worthy discussion?

tfdn - what "CHRISTIAN" laws are you referring? please be more specific.
Posted by nanc

Well, if "Christian" nations were the only ones with laws against killing and stealing you might have a point. Although as Yav pointed out earlier, The Ten Commandments are Jewish law and not Christian law.
Although this one...
FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'
has found its way into law. In the state I live in, Pennsylvania, you cannot buy alcohol on Sundays. What is the reason for that other than to appease Christians?
What about laws against pornography and such? Or laws not permitting and fining people who use the word "Fuck" on TV? Where does the justification for those laws come from? Now that I think about it...
THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'
has also found its way into our laws. You can say "Damn" on TV, but not "God Damn", so I guess that one made its way into law too. I doubt most countries where murder is illegal, it's also illegal to say "God Damn" on TV.
Also, of course, there's the law that churches do not pay taxes.

......does anyone know if they have the death sentence for murder in Georgia..??........

yes

www.dcor.state.ga.us

tfdn - you are so stretching it. why don't we just change it all to "allah" damn? or "buddha" damn? why don't you just buy your alcohol on saturdays? and if you have a good relationship with your spouse, why would you NEED pornography?

yeah, i feel so appeased because you don't have enough foresight to buy your beer on saturday...like we do! how has christianity changed your life for the worse? tell me that!

and once you come to that conclusion - tell me how islam has changed your life since 9/11? all the bitching you lefties do - 9/11 has changed your life so much in the last FEW YEARS what christianity has been endeavouring to do for over 2,000 years.

your putzery knows no bounds. God help you - i will pray for you.

TFDNIHILIST,

We live in a world where children are legally beaten with chains until they memorize whole Suras from the Koran, where getting caught skipping a prayer service will get you legally (and publicly) horsewhipped by the Mutaween, and you can be put legally to death for converting from Islam to another religion or no religion at all, and you're worried about not being able to say "God damn" on television?

That's deep, dude.

Still trying to figure out how to light the beer bong?

herm, keep worshipping your god, Thanatos, and exulting and celebrating that foetuses can still be killed. What else provides you with such joy? It is a peculiar and perverted delight that you seem to enjoy so much.

Posted by Johnson

But your heeero murdering young soldiers and civilians in Iwreck is peachy keen alright ?

I can't see a lot of difference between fathers murdering their children BEFORE they are born or AFTER they are born.

Someone above was right. You have to have civilisation to have a clash of civilisations. Until we can civilise the leftards we can not JUDGE the muzzies!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm not comparing the two, did I say I was? If your only argument is "We agree there is Christian law in this country, but that's a minor inconvenience", that's not good enough. Freedom is freedom.

tell me how islam has changed your life since 9/11? all the bitching you lefties do - 9/11 has changed your life so much in the last FEW YEARS what christianity has been endeavouring to do for over 2,000 years.
Posted by nanc

Actually, the only change in my life since 9/11 has been from weenies like you who have helped my own government and society make me feel like I'm in a police state.

why don't we just change it all to "allah" damn? or "buddha" damn? why don't you just buy your alcohol on saturdays? and if you have a good relationship with your spouse, why would you NEED pornography?

Posted by nanc

Whether I need to say or do those things is not the point. It's not the Government's job to tell me I can't. Especially when the only reason they have for doing so is to appease religion.

if you have a good relationship with your spouse, why would you NEED pornography?

Posted by nanc


Sometimes you get tired of the same old poa once in a while. so many times you can get excited to ride the old warhorse.

tfdn - they tell u.s. (under the guise of special interest groups) when, where and how we may cut trees down...that has nothing to do with christianity or judaism - it has to do with secular humanism and the worship of creation. what rules or laws of christianity have directly affected you?

"Actually, the only change in my life since 9/11 has been from weenies like you who have helped my own government and society make me feel like I'm in a police state."

Oh, puh-lease. Let me know when you see something like this on your way to pick up a gallon of milk, and then we can talk about police state.

I don't which group is more ridiculous: The Chicken Littles who screach about Sharia coming here or the nimrods who must prove they have no sense of perspective or degree when they respond "Durr, We already do, Christian Sharia.........".

Keep fighting it out.

"Oh, puh-lease. Let me know when you see something like this on your way to pick up a gallon of milk, and then we can talk about police state."

Posted by Brooke at 2008-07-08 08:52 AM | Reply


So you think you need tanks in the street in order for it to qualify as a police state.

The fact you can be thrown in jail for life without ever seeing an attorney isn't important, as long as there are no tanks in the street.

Every aspect of your life is controlled by the government. Every aspect. Your choices of freedom are determined by the government. From who you marry to what you read--it is all determined by the government. Government gives permission to marry, and government decides what can be read.


It is a radical manipulation of Islamic tradition to argue that sharia should apply in the west.Sharia was meant to apply in Muslim lands which Europe and North America are not.

But they would like to conquer Europe and North America. That is why we must smash them and their stupid religion.

Onward Christian soldiers,
Marching as to war!
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before.

You mean like Eurabia? The Euro-Arab Axis.


But they would like to conquer Europe and North America. That is why we must smash them and their stupid religion.

Posted by fwthom at 2008-07-08 09:36 AM | Reply


The same could be said for christians.

Let's get them all together on a large plain and give them all machine guns and hand grenades--you get the first shot fwthom--right after you piss yourself.

tfdn - they tell u.s. (under the guise of special interest groups) when, where and how we may cut trees down...that has nothing to do with christianity or judaism - it has to do with secular humanism and the worship of creation.

Once again, why do you keep changing the subject? Did I say anything about others who have influence or want to limit our freedom or say I support them? I did not. Saying "I don't like A" is not the same as saying "I like B".

what rules or laws of christianity have directly affected you?

Posted by nanc

You already asked this question and I already answered it.
But here's another example. Religion is the main excuse for all the anti-gay marriage laws which are being passed, is it not. What other reason is there?

------

I don't which group is more ridiculous: The Chicken Littles who screach about Sharia coming here or the nimrods who must prove they have no sense of perspective or degree when they respond "Durr, We already do, Christian Sharia.........".

Posted by Sully

One degree is still a degree. A minor freedom lost, is still a freedom lost.

Give credit where it is truly due: to the authors of this article who were able to write an entire piece about a Pakistani man murdering his own daughter in a so-called "honor killing", without--EVEN ONCE--using the M-word.

Bravo.

Always the "Christians are worse" deflection.Lenin,Stalin,Hitler
,Mao,Pol Pot were Christians? And hundreds of millions dead by these nice guys.Christianity isnt perfect but its still here. In 1989, with the fall of the Soviet Union, the contradiction inherent in Marx's system of analysis was revealed:It is socialism , not capitalism that is more painful for humanity.

Contolled Pairs

Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot did not murder in the name of atheism---that means their atheism had nothing to do with the deaths they caused. Religion has murdered far more people than the murderers you mentioned. They murdered for political reasons--atheism was not their motivation.


Christians murder in the name of Christianity, as do Muslims.

The Soviet Union was not a socialist country--it was a communist country.

These people want to suck on our economic tit, without accepting our culture or laws.

The worst part of it is how Government and Corporate America conspire to embrace this nonsense, often at the expense of its own citizens. Europe and the USA are being overrun by population shifts, which first provide cheap labor followed by taxpayer subsidies. Press 1 for English. Who authorized this horseshit?

Politics and religion are one in the same. Marx idea was to get rid of capitalism,enact socialism(communism) and the pain of the people will end, then they wont need religion. Religion is not the problem, any religion or lack of religion. The problem is a small number of extremists trying to exert thier will on others. For example in 2008,Muslim terrorists are the current biggest threat to the world. If suddenly Christian fundamentalists,like Mcveigh emerge as a threat to national security I would have the same attitude.

Always the "Christians are worse"
Posted by controlledpairs

Please show me where this was said. You even put it in quotes, so show me where me or anyone else said that.

OMG, I must be losing it because I agree with nutjob on something. I wonder if there any appointments to see the shrink? LMFAO.

Lonnie

Since you seemed to miss my point CP (hint: it's not "Christians are worse") I'll explain it. Religious types of all kinds insist on forcing there beliefs and morals on "non-Belivers".
I agree that in modern America, the things Christians force on the rest of us by law are pretty low key. But that's not out of desire, it's mainly because of our Constitution. I believe if they could get laws passed forcing all businesses to be closed on Sundays and mandatory church attendance, or to restrict other religions besides Xtianity, they would do it.

Press 1 for English. Who authorized this horseshit?

Posted by nutcase

I'd rather press one for English than have to tolerate sitting through the whole branch of that tree, waiting for all the other language instructions to finish.

marque uno para el espaol...
composez deux pour le Franais...
whlen Sie drei fr Deutschen...
disque quatro para o alemo...

I think you get my point

"One degree is still a degree. A minor freedom lost, is still a freedom lost."

You're right. I mistated. It isn't a matter of degree. We don't have religious rule in this country at all and the legislative process does not involve religion at all. So to the extent that people babble about "Christian Sharia", they are talking out their asses.


"Christians murder in the name of Christianity"

If you are going to use the present tense then you must have a present example.


A

"One degree is still a degree. A minor freedom lost, is still a freedom lost."

You're right. I mistated. It isn't a matter of degree. We don't have religious rule in this country at all and the legislative process does not involve religion at all. So to the extent that people babble about "Christian Sharia", they are talking out their asses.


"Christians murder in the name of Christianity"

If you are going to use the present tense then you must have a present example.


A

But that's not out of desire, it's mainly because of our Constitution.
Posted by TFDNihilist

That's as true as it gets.

Well, maybe not literally, but...

"Liberal and progressive Christian groups say a new computer game in which players must either convert or kill non-Christians is the wrong gift to give this holiday season and that Wal-Mart, a major video game retailer, should yank it off its shelves.

The Campaign to Defend the Constitution and the Christian Alliance for Progress, two online political groups, plan to demand today that Wal-Mart dump Left Behind: Eternal Forces, a PC game inspired by a series of Christian novels that are hugely popular, especially with teens."

www.sfgate.com

TFDNIHILIST- The Thread was about a man who strangled his daughter because of his religious beliefs.Thats a crime. We are a nation of laws and he broke the law. Now he pays the price whatever that will be. Also when Jefferson wrote the Constitution and said seperation of church and state he didnt mean take God out of Government(In God we trust). Always on this drivel filled website I see "christian " bashing , people trying to make us out to be worse than ,this guy in Georgia or bring up Mcveigh as trying to paint all christians as a whackjob like him. Its typical of leftwing websites like this, so the examples are everywhere.If the shoe fits wear it.

"Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot did not murder in the name of atheism---that means their atheism had nothing to do with the deaths they caused."

The commies definitely killed religious leaders in the early days and they definitely sent people to slave labor camps for their religious beliefs. China still enforces atheism with an iron fist.

You are clearly wrong.

One of the many things that make a nation great is a common language. I don't like walking into stores in America where I am the only one who speaks English. The propensity for people to isolate themselves into groups by clinging to a past "heritage" helps to separate us as a nation. Heritage has no bearing on the present, unless you cling to the racist beliefs that heritage implies.

America was known as the "melting pot" because all the new people coming to America did all they could to be American and learn the language and local customs. That isn't the case anymore.

China still enforces atheism with an iron fist.

You are clearly wrong.

Posted by Sully

Actually, that's not true... what they do is expect you to be loyal to China first, and your god second... pretty much the way we do when we demand that people who call themselves christians be willing to kill anyone our government determines is the enemy.

That isn't the case anymore.

Posted by Buffalo_Bob

Our overt racism can't have anything to do with their falling into a reactionary cultural preservation mode, can it?

We are so open minded and accepting of difference.

It is the stated goal of some radical Muslim groups that they be allowed, even entitled to live under Sharia law in whatever country they find themselves.

The commies definitely killed religious leaders in the early days and they definitely sent people to slave labor camps for their religious beliefs. China still enforces atheism with an iron fist.


You are clearly wrong.

Posted by Sully at 2008-07-08 11:03 AM | Reply | Flag


Your logic is flawed as usual. Your flaw is assigning motive incorrectly. They didn't murder religious leaders because they were promoting atheism--they killed the religious leaders to consolidate power and promote a political agenda. They didn't kill the religious leaders so the people would be atheists--they killed the religious leaders to promote their own political agendas. I doubt you can see the difference--but there is a vast difference in concepts.

The Crusades were carried out to spread Chrstianity. None of the leaders carried out their murders to promote atheism---it was all to promote their political agendas.

You are clearly mistaken.

Hag sez-Our overt racism can't have anything to do with their falling into a reactionary cultural preservation mode, can it?


WTF? Your admitting your a racist,thats disgusting.

WTF? Your admitting your a racist,thats disgusting.

Posted by controlledpairs

LOL... what's the disgusting part, being racist or admitting it?

I was using the royal "our."

Kumbaya. Let's all share our wonderful cultures together. Bring 'em all in. Don't we all strangle our kids to death in the living room in the name of family honor? Peace be to Allah.

HC,

One Federal Highway System, Federal Law Governing Interstate Commerce, One Postal System and one language gave the United States an advantage over the Europeans. English is our official language and every system should default to English. Those wanting service in another language should press 1 and incur an additional charge. Actually these systems are designed to waste you time, therby saving Corporations money.

At this point in time, the greatest threat to World Peace is the United States and its unqualified support of Israeli terrorism. Arabs didn't start these conflicts, they are simply responding in kind. We claim the exclusive right, along with Israel, to settle our differences through force. Everyone else is supposed to comply peacefully or they are "terrorists". This is exactly how the British Empire treated American Revolutionaries.

They didn't murder religious leaders because they were promoting atheism--they killed the religious leaders to consolidate power and promote a political agenda.

they why kill the religious leaders then? what signifigance do they have then??

English is our official language.

Posted by nutcase

Actually, it's not... the US doesn't have an official language. All the other issues stem from that one. Otherwise I appreciate where you are coming from, on both points, but especially the latter.

they killed the religious leaders to consolidate power and promote a political agenda.

buttwipebob is admiting that people were killed because of their faith and at the same time dismissing it as not being the same thing as being killed to promote atheism.

As crazy as religion is banning it is worse, because this only emboldens "True Believers".

Most countries which claim to be Communist are nothing of the sort. Cuba, Russia and China are totalitarian States, which provide some benefits for the general walfare, such as roads, subways, schools, and health care. Them and us have adopted the "Communist" label for propaganda purposes. As George Carlin reminds us, "Its all bullshit and its bad for you".

HC,

Knowing rudimentary English is a formal requirement for citizenship. A written requirement which is entirely ignored.

"Your logic is flawed as usual. Your flaw is assigning motive incorrectly. They didn't murder religious leaders because they were promoting atheism--they killed the religious leaders to consolidate power and promote a political agenda."

Actually, that can be said of any "relgious war". You mentioned the Crusades (nice recent reference by the way). That was about conquering territory and people and having political control over them. "Spreading Christianity" = increasing the power base and wealth of the people in charge. That can be called a political or material motive. You can assign religious motives or political motives or any motives you want (greed is another easy one) to any of these actions. A sensible person would just be consistent in doing so.

What I expect from you is that you won't be consistent. Rather, you will pick and choose depending on what betters your pathetic "arguement". So the Crusades had nothing to do with power and greed and were only about religion while atheists who kill people for not being atheists didn't do so for religious reasons at all. And of course, you get to make the call on all this stuff.

I'm not going to play your little semantic games, Bob. Its a tired act we've all seen. You're full of shit. People have been murdered by atheists for not being atheist. That is a fact. Spin it any way you want and it doesn't change.

Language
Applicants for naturalization must be able to read, write, speak, and understand words in ordinary usage in the English language. Applicants exempt from this requirement are those who on the date of filing:

*
have been residing in the United States subsequent to a lawful admission for permanent residence for periods totaling 15 years or more and are over 55 years of age;
*
have been residing in the United States subsequent to a lawful admission for permanent residence for periods totaling 20 years or more and are over 50 years of age; or
*
have a medically determinable physical or mental impairment, where the impairment affects the applicants ability to learn English.

www.uscis.gov

"1.8 million persons 8/10 of one percent of U.S. residents spoke no English at all in 1990."
ourworld.compuserve.com

Eberly

I see you still can't post without insults. The sign of a weak mind.

The religious leaders weren't killed because of their religion--they were killed because they were leaders--people who could bring people together in opposition to their political agenda. The same holds true with the intellectuals and teachers who were killed--religion had nothing to do with their deaths. They were not killed to promote atheism.
Do you have a link that shows that promoting atheism was the motivating factor in any or the dictators listed?

Sully

The dancing is yours. My statements are concise and clear. There have been no wars waged to promote atheism. None. No political dicatator came to power to promote atheism.

Religion has been the source of many wars and conflicts. I brought up the Crusades as a clear example--Iraq comes to mind if you want some current deaths being caused by religion. Who is killing to promote atheism these days?

Who did Stalin,Lenin,Pol Pot,Chairman Mao idolize,believe in? Carl Marx who said-"Religion is the opium of the people." So thier tyranny was Godless based,thats who they were ,what they believed. Whether Buffolo Bob admits it or not, they killed in the name of Athiesm or Godlessness whatever you want to label it. Yes just like Christians did in the Crusades which was in response to Muslim agression, the Crusades were a self defense action.Presently its Muslim extremists,terrorists who are the problem, not presently Christians. The Spanish inquisition and the Protestant reformation are over.

"Who is killing to promote atheism these days?"

I asked you the same thing about Christianity and you brought up the Crusades.

This is typical of you. I told you that communists killed people to promote atheism. It was more recent than the Crusades. Then you bullshitted a little bit and tried to pretend it never happened.

Either admit that Christianity is at least as non-violent as atheism, come up with some kind of recent example or "Shut the fuck up" as you like to say.

REVEALED, at long last: the whole "politically incorrect" truth about Islam's violent teachings, bloody history, backward culture, and morally depraved founder
PLUS: Why the Crusades were justified wars of Christian self-defense against centuries of Muslim aggression


OOOps!

REVEALED, at long last: the whole "politically incorrect" truth about Islam's violent teachings, bloody history, backward culture, and morally depraved founder
PLUS: Why the Crusades were justified wars of Christian self-defense against centuries of Muslim aggression
The Politically Incorrect Guide' to Islam (and the Crusades)
by Robert Spencer
Exclusive hardcover edition -- not available in stores!

When PC propagandists assure us that jihadist terror doesn't reflect "true," "peaceful" Islam, they're not only wrong, they're dangerous -- because they lull America and the West into letting their guard down against their mortal enemy. And not only do self-appointed "experts" lie elaborately and persistently about Islam -- they have also replaced the truth about Christian Europe and the Crusades with an all-pervasive historical fantasy that is designed to make you ashamed of your own culture and heritage -- and thus less determined to defend it. But now there's a remedy: in The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades), Robert Spencer reveals all the disturbing facts about Islam and its murderous hostility to the West that other books ignore, soft-pedal -- or simply lie about.

We don't have religious rule in this country at all and the legislative process does not involve religion at all.

Posted by Sully

I beg to differ. Why is there a push against Gay marriage? Many lawmakers state religion as their main objection to it. Why doesn't my state allow liquour sales on Sunday, other than for Religious reasons? I never said all laws were religion based.
And then of course there's this...

www.philly.com
Pennsylvania lawmakers yesterday held up voting on a resolution recognizing a Muslim group's convention after a legislator protested that "the Muslims do not recognize Jesus Christ as God."

-----------

The Thread was about a man who strangled his daughter because of his religious beliefs.Thats a crime. We are a nation of laws and he broke the law.

I agree, you may have missed the original headline of this thread, posted by Nanc
"Sharia Law Comes to the US"


Now he pays the price whatever that will be. Also when Jefferson wrote the Constitution and said seperation of church and state he didnt mean take God out of Government(In God we trust).

Posted by controlledpairs

Funny you use a phrase that wasn't a part of the lexicon for until over 100 years after Jefferson died. Show me where "In God We Trust" appears in any of our defining documents. Or any mention of the Judeo/Christian God (note the capital "G") for that matter.

And lastly, the only reason you have to press 1 for English is because Americans worship money over all. Those companies are just making sure they expand their customer base.

Sully

You never asked me who was killing in the name of Christianity today, and it makes no difference--the facts are that Religion is the problem, not just Christianity. You deflect from religion overall and try to say I focus just on Christians--not true--all religions are equally evil.

However--no war has been fought for the sake of atheism. None. Zero.

My bad, I sould look these things up. It appears they did capitalize "God" in the DoI. Although the term "Nature's God" sounds more Wiccan than Christian to me. And Jefferson, Adams and Franklin were all notorious Dietists and not Christians.

This case should go to the Supreme Court. There, they will judge, that the father could terminate his daughter, so long as he has a physician's medical judgment.

However--no war has been fought for the sake of atheism. None. Zero.

Posted by Buffalo_Bob

I think my family in Romania while they lived under Soviet rule would disagree with you.

And Jefferson, Adams and Franklin were all notorious Dietists and not Christians.

Posted by TFDNihilist

Atkins, South Beach, or Richard Simons?

Petrous

I'm sure you think you were a zygote. Do you think someday you will be a corpse?

And I agree with Bob. Killing to remove religion is not the same as killing to promote Atheism.


However--no war has been fought for the sake of atheism. None. Zero.


Posted by Buffalo_Bob


"I think my family in Romania while they lived under Soviet rule would disagree with you."

Posted by Petrous at 2008-07-08 12:27 PM


I think you should post a link to this war that was fought for atheism.

Atkins, South Beach, or Richard Simons?

Posted by Hagbard_Celine

Haha..:p..Well, Franklin was a bit of a porker, although he espoused vegetarianism.

"I beg to differ. Why is there a push against Gay marriage? Many lawmakers state religion as their main objection to it. Why doesn't my state allow liquour sales on Sunday, other than for Religious reasons? I never said all laws were religion based.
And then of course there's this..."

These are individual people involved in the process who are motivated by religion. There is a debate going on and people are making religious arguements.
With Sharia there is no debate. The religious arguement is always right. Are you really not getting this? I'm assuming you're only pretending not to understand the difference between a theocratic rule and democratic rule where some people happen to be motivated by religion.

"all religions are equally evil"

Doesn't stand up to the least bit of scrutiny in the present but Bob said so so it must be true like the spaceship on the moon or the ghost at the gas station.


Bob, you think the Soviet Union was not at war with religion? Links? Try your own research - just look up Soviet Union and Religion. It's took Google less than 3 seconds to find all the links you could desire to read.

Anyway, I said my family in Romania would disagree with you. I'm talking about those that lived under Soviet Rule, not me.


"I'm sure you think you were a zygote. Do you think someday you will be a corpse?"

Posted by Buffalo_Bob - I take it this reference is to my 'physician's medical judgment' comment.
Since the Law of the US is based on court decisions and the Supreme Court made this part of Roe v Wade, the 'physician's medical judgment' is a requirement. I'm sure you can find a public record of the percentage of cases where medical judgment exists for abortions. Unless, you need someone to guide you to a source...

en.wikipedia.org

See "reasons for abortion".

There, they will judge, that the father could terminate his daughter, so long as he has a physician's medical judgment.

Posted by Petrous

Well, since no physician would ever say that about a healthy child, I guess he doesn't have a case. However, since many physicians and judges have said that a fetus or zygote is not a child, I guess you don't have a case.

Killing to remove religion is not the same as killing to promote Atheism.

It is killing another person and their faith was the basis of killing them........which is the reason why religious people have killed others.

same lunacy.....same thing

assholebob and you can cover your ears and scream lalalalalalala all you want but it doesn't change anything.

dipshitbob simply wants change the sentence and assert that "nobody has killed to promote atheism"..

I am not making that argument.....but rather that someone's faith got them killed for having it.

There is a debate going on and people are making religious arguements....democratic rule where some people happen to be motivated by religion.

Posted by sully

I never said all of our laws are Christian laws or that we live in a Christian Theocracy. But ones such as gay marriage and blue laws have no other purpose than to promote religious ideals. I do believe that many in this country would enact a Christian Theocracy if the Constitution didn't stand in their way.

I am not making that argument.....but rather that someone's faith got them killed for having it.

Posted by eberly

Exactly, which is not the same thing as the purpose of the Crusades or modern radical Islamics today. Whose purpose was and is to convert people to their particular religion.

If you said that Stalin et al killed religious people to promote Statism, then you would have a point.

agreed TFD


"Bob, you think the Soviet Union was not at war with religion? Links? Try your own research - just look up Soviet Union and Religion. It's took Google less than 3 seconds to find all the links you could desire to read."

I never said that. I said--no war has been fought to promote atheism. None. Zero. Those people who were religious were killed because they were leaders--not because they were religious--why do I have to keep saying this, and why do you keep ignoring the point? Do you have a link to a war that was fought to promote atheism?


"Anyway, I said my family in Romania would disagree with you. I'm talking about those that lived under Soviet Rule, not me."

I understand that.


I'm sure you think you were a zygote. Do you think someday you will be a corpse?


Posted by Buffalo_Bob - I take it this reference is to my 'physician's medical judgment' comment.
Since the Law of the US is based on court decisions and the Supreme Court made this part of Roe v Wade, the 'physician's medical judgment' is a requirement. I'm sure you can find a public record of the percentage of cases where medical judgment exists for abortions. Unless, you need someone to guide you to a source...


en.wikipedia.org


See "reasons for abortion".

Posted by Petrous at 2008-07-08 12:37 PM | Reply |

UM--yeah--I was asking for your opinion--not a wiki link. Let's try again.

I'm sure you think you were a zygote. Do you think someday you will be a corpse?

"I do believe that many in this country would enact a Christian Theocracy if the Constitution didn't stand in their way."

But it does which goes back to my original point of people who blabber about "Christian Sharia" being dishonest and/or crazy.

"Do you have a link to a war that was fought to promote atheism?"

You were given examples of atheists killing to promote atheism. Why does that killing have to take place in the context of a "war" in order to be considered as evil as other religiously motivated killings? You aren't making any sense. When atheists have absolute power the way the Church did hundreds of years ago, they behaved just as badly if not worse - your little games with semantics aside.


Sully

"But it does which goes back to my original point of people who blabber about "Christian Sharia" being dishonest and/or crazy."

I seem to recall a thread recently about a man who shot two unarmed men in the back as they tried to run away. I would say that was Christian Sharia law.


"Do you have a link to a war that was fought to promote atheism?"


"You were given examples of atheists killing to promote atheism."

Only in your imagination. What time were these examples posted?

"Why does that killing have to take place in the context of a "war" in order to be considered as evil as other religiously motivated killings?"

Because religions start wars. Wars are fought over religion. No war has been fought to promote atheism.

"You aren't making any sense. When atheists have absolute power the way the Church did hundreds of years ago, they behaved just as badly if not worse - your little games with semantics aside."

You aren't making sense--no one has killed to promote atheism. They killed to consolidate their power--not promote atheism. You can't seem to comprehend the difference.

no one has killed to promote atheism. They killed to consolidate their power--not promote atheism. You can't seem to comprehend the difference.

Yes they killed for power. but they killed people because of their faith. Religion was in their way.

Exact same lunacy. You won't admit it because you support it.

"I seem to recall a thread recently about a man who shot two unarmed men in the back as they tried to run away. I would say that was Christian Sharia law."

Not once was Christianity mentioned as having anything to do with his motive by the shooter or the prosecution. But other than that you are spot on and not crazy at all.

"Only in your imagination. What time were these examples posted?"

Communists rounded up religious people and killed them outright or worked them to death. You seemed to understand this in previous posts. Are you claiming it didn't happen now?

"No war has been fought to promote atheism."

But hundreds of thousands of people have been killed to promote atheism so the end result is the same. You can't be this dense.

"You aren't making sense--no one has killed to promote atheism."

Yes, they have. Killing people for being religious and making sure everyone else knows about is a way of intimidating people into quitting their religious activities. You are wrong every time you say otherwise.

"They killed to consolidate their power--not promote atheism. You can't seem to comprehend the difference."

We've been over this, Stupid. I get the difference. And I said the same thing can be said about the Crusades: It was all about power and wealth. Prove me wrong. See how easy that is?




no one has killed to promote atheism. They killed to consolidate their power--not promote atheism. You can't seem to comprehend the difference.


Yes they killed for power. but they killed people because of their faith. Religion was in their way.


Exact same lunacy. You won't admit it because you support it.

Posted by eberly at 2008-07-08 01:34 PM | Reply


Again, the point eludes you. Religion had absolutely nothing to do with the deaths of religious leaders. They were not killed because of their religion. They were killed because they were leaders, and people would listen to them. They were killed for exactly the same reason intellectuals and teachers and professors were killed--not for their religion, but because they were leaders.

I do not support killing for atheism or any other reason except self defense. Again your point is so weak you have to resort to personal attacks.

But hundreds of thousands of people have been killed to promote atheism so the end result is the same. You can't be this dense.

Posted by Sully at 2008-07-08 01:37 PM | Reply


Link?

Religion had absolutely nothing to do with the deaths of religious leaders.

take your hands off the computer and squeeze your head harder. you can still hear me.

you are profoundly retarded.

They were leaders BECAUSE OF THEIR RELIGION.

You can't remove religion from the equation.

Again, take your hands............

"Link?"

He asks for this in the post after he acknowledges that this happened.....

"Religion had absolutely nothing to do with the deaths of religious leaders. They were not killed because of their religion. They were killed because they were leaders, and people would listen to them."

Why would people listen to them? Religion. As Atheists murdered religious leaders for leading others toward religion and you want to say it wasn't regliously motivated. You make zero sense.

Eberly

Religious leaders were killed because they were leaders--their religion was incidental.

Intellectuals were killed because they were leaders--their religion was incidental.

Professors were killed because they were leaders--their religion was incidental.

Teachers were killed because they were leaders--their religion was incidental.

Writers were killed because they were leaders--their religion was incidental.

Powerful people were killed because they were leaders--their religion was incidental.

Is it getting through yet? They were killing leaders--not promoting atheism.

Why would people listen to them? Religion. As Atheists murdered religious leaders for leading others toward religion and you want to say it wasn't regliously motivated. You make zero sense.

Posted by Sully at 2008-07-08 01:56 PM


Religious leaders very often get into political arenas and their followers give them strength. Is this a new concept to you?

Still waiting for that link that shows a war that was waged in the name of atheism.

;-)

"Link?"


Do you really need one?
Do a little e looking yourself.
There was this little country i forget what it is called hmm let me think oh thats right THE FUCKING USSR perhaps you would prefer to look into china or any other communist state. Yes they were promoting atheism, yes people were killed and prosecuted by the government for their belief. I have personally met people who have been imprisoned in china and russia, i have met people who have lost family to this persecution. From now on when you try to get on your high horse remember the blinders go on the horse.

He asks for this in the post after he acknowledges that this happened.....


Posted by Sully at 2008-07-08 01:56 PM | Reply |

I have never acknowledged that hundreds of thousands of people have been killed to promote atheism.

You make zero sense.

"Still waiting for that link that shows a war that was waged in the name of atheism."


Even you have to know that one of the basic principals of socialism is the eradication of all religion. Are you claiming there has never been a war based on communism or socialism?

Do you really need one?
Do a little e looking yourself.
There was this little country i forget what it is called hmm let me think oh thats right THE FUCKING USSR perhaps you would prefer to look into china or any other communist state. Yes they were promoting atheism, yes people were killed and prosecuted by the government for their belief. I have personally met people who have been imprisoned in china and russia, i have met people who have lost family to this persecution. From now on when you try to get on your high horse remember the blinders go on the horse.

Posted by salamandagator at 2008-07-08 02:04 PM |


Link? Show me the war fought for atheism.

"Religious leaders very often get into political arenas and their followers give them strength. Is this a new concept to you?"

But when religious leaders with political power start wars to expand their sphere of influence, you attribute it to religion and not to politics or greed.

So when it suits you, religious leaders deal only in religion and when it doesn't, they are also politicians who are feared for their political power. Do you understand that you are invoking a double standard?

And as Sal pointed out at 2:04, not all people killed by atheists for being religious were leaders. Some were just being made an example of by people looking to destroy religion.

"Link? Show me the war fought for atheism."


Why?
Can't reason for yourself?
Can't remember your grade school history?
Can't seem to recall what an "infedel" is?
Can't get rid of the rash from you depends?

sorry should have been infidel.

It looks to me like the war is against the atheists--not the other way around. Here is a nice Google for Atheism War.

www.google.com

But gee--no links to wars fought for atheism.


But here is a link to a part of the Soviet Constitution. Look it over and see if you can find the part about atheism. Here is what I found.

"13. For the purpose of securing to the workers real freedom of conscience, the church is to be separated from the state and the school from the church, and the right of religious and anti-religous propaganda is accorded to every citizen."

www.marxists.org

"And as Sal pointed out at 2:04, not all people killed by atheists for being religious were leaders. Some were just being made an example of by people looking to destroy religion."

Posted by Sully at 2008-07-08 02:11 PM | Reply


And some people are killed because they where blue instead of red---SO? There are whackos who kill people for any reason.

The point is that there has never been a war fought to promote atheism. No war was fought to destroy a religion unless it was by other religious people.

And some people are killed because they where blue instead of red---SO?

Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2008-07-08 02:21 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)

You're the douche always doing the corrections right?

"But gee--no links to wars fought for atheism"

And you are the only person who believes that this means people weren't murdered in large numbers to promote atheism.

You've won an arguement against yourself. Congrats.

Sully, Salam,

good luck with this guy. he is admiting that religious leaders have been killed but dismisses the lunacy because so were teachers and writers. LOL

he just won't admit that religion was a factor and that a person's faith was a factor in why they were slaughtered.

he is simply deflecting because these people weren't holding a neon sign saying "Killing to promote atheism" and he believes that it is working.

only in his peverted mind which believes that killing for religion is only done by religious people.

I don`t know what you all are talking about,(he killed his daughter)he is a ass-hole!!

Communism begins where atheism begins-- (Karl Marx)
The first requisite for the happiness of the people is the abolition of religion-- (Karl Marx)
I wish to avenge myself against the One who rules above.-- (Karl Marx)
Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism.-- (V.I. Lenin)
Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth, and God from Heaven!-- (early Soviet slogan)


Hmmmmm sounds like a freedom of religion gov to me.

"And you are the only person who believes that this means people weren't murdered in large numbers to promote atheism."


Posted by Sully at 2008-07-08 02:23 PM | Reply

Where is your link? Where are these hundreds of thousands you keep talking about?

You're the douche always doing the corrections right?

Posted by 101Chairborne at 2008-07-08 02:23 PM


Actually, that would be you. Sorry about the wear-where mistake. Now go piss your pants--OSAMA--OSAMA--BOO!

;-)

Actually Hitler was an atheist. He believed in Darwism--which is atheism in of itself.

Hitler was killing millions of Jews to eradicate them from the gene pool --to support or hurry up the natural selection theory process along.

Hitler's reasons were all atheistic in nature.

So WWII--from the Hitler side..is arguably atheism.

And an argument could be made that since Japan was atheist at the time--and wanted to kill the planet to rule the same under one emperor--

That could be argued as atheism as well.

Bob--do you need a link ??

Bob--do you need a link ??

Posted by MURPHY


I don't know what he needs...I wouldn't want to imagine.

He won't concede the obvious that people of faith have been slaughtered and the reason they were slaughtered by people of no faith was their faith and somehow in that he still insists that religion had nothing to do with it.

"Actually Hitler was an atheist. He believed in Darwism(sic)"


www.geocities.com

z.about.com

What's "Darwism(sic)?"

LOL!


"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

Murphy

Why do you need to ask? Why don't you just have the link in your post.
Yes

LINK?

Sorry guys, as much as I hate to admit it. BBob is running rings around you logically. The eradication of religion is not the same as the promotion of Atheism.
I can put down A without promoting B.

"The eradication of religion is not the same as the promotion of Atheism.
I can put down A without promoting B."

We don't need to talk in abstracts about A and B. We know what happened in specifics.

When a government tells people "You can't practice a religion, we don't believe in religion in this country" and then it kills people for doing otherwise: That is promoting atheism at the point of a gun. Your choices are limited to atheism or torture/slave labor/death.

"Sorry guys, as much as I hate to admit it. BBob is running rings around you logically."

Now we just think you don't know what "logically" means.


The eradication of religion is not the same as the promotion of Atheism.

Well then you disagree with him also.

He doesn't think anybody has been "eradicated" on the basis of religion.

"He won't concede the obvious that people of faith have been slaughtered and the reason they were slaughtered by people of no faith was their faith and somehow in that he still insists that religion had nothing to do with it."


Posted by eberly at 2008-07-08 03:20 PM | Reply


They were murdered because they were leaders, or potential leaders. If your point were correct, they would have killed all the people who were religious--very few were atheists. None of their deaths were in the cause of promoting atheism. They were always killed to promote the local crazy man's political agenda and to consolidate his power.

If your point were correct, they would have killed all the people who were religious

I didn't say their leadership positions were not a factor....they certainly were but you are making it the only reason.......religion just keeps rearing it's ugly head.

LOL


"The eradication of religion is not the same as the promotion of Atheism."

My point has never been that the dictators were trying to eradicate religion. They were murdering the leaders that might get people to oppose them.


Well then you disagree with him also.


"He doesn't think anybody has been "eradicated" on the basis of religion."

Only by other religious people and a few whackos. Dictators kill anyone who opposes them--it wasn't the religion--it was the power.

Communism(athiesm) Is a failed venture. See- fall of the Soviet Union 1989. Yet still people are seduced by its insanity like some on this thread.They will neve admit it is much worse than anything we have ever seen. Its like talking to the mentally ill. Hardy fuckin har,har.

When a government tells people "You can't practice a religion, we don't believe in religion in this country" and then it kills people for doing otherwise: That is promoting atheism at the point of a gun. Your choices are limited to atheism or torture/slave labor/death.
Posted by Sully

No, not practicing your religion is not the same as Atheism. Did they make them go to Atheist meetings? Did they make them sand up and chant Atheist slogans. Christians in the US want to force kids to pray in school and keep the Sabbath Holy by not allowing business on Sunday.

This is just another one of those threads where the same people are going to be making the same point over and over again and no one is going to change their mine.
Sorry guys, unless you can point to a specific thing that says these Statist leaders were purposely trying to get people to admit there is no God, or to convert them to Atheism (is that even possible), then you just have your interpretation and opinion.
Bob is asking for solid proof that they wanted the populace to actively denounce the existence of God or be killed and you can't provide it. Although those quotes put up by SalGator are a good start. At least as far as Lenin and Stalin are concerned.

Bob is asking for solid proof that they wanted the populace to actively denounce the existence of God or be killed and you can't provide it. Although those quotes put up by SalGator are a good start. At least as far as Lenin and Stalin are concerned.

Solid proof? read your history books, thats where they hide information .

" Religion is the sigh of the oppressed" Karl Marx
" The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for thier real happiness" Karl Marx
" The criricism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo." Karl Marx
" Religion is the opiate of the people." Karl Marx
Sounds like the foundation of a religious man and movement.

TF--why would they have to have people admit there is no God--they were killed--so why convert?

They were killed to eradicate God.

Dictators do not convert--they opprese and kill the populace for disagreeing.


Christians in the US want to force kids to pray in school and keep the Sabbath Holy by not allowing business on Sunday. per TF

Not true on both statements.


And Sharia is in Britain--though it might be in Canada as well--

www.drudge.com

"No, not practicing your religion is not the same as Atheism. Did they make them go to Atheist meetings?"

There's no such thing. I'm sure they taught kids in school that there is no God though.

"Bob is asking for solid proof that they wanted the populace to actively denounce the existence of God or be killed and you can't provide it."

No, he's not. He asking for links that show a war was fought to promote atheism. And if we supplied that or the "solid proof" you are asking for he's goint to ask for something else. That is what he does.

"Sorry guys, unless you can point to a specific thing that says these Statist leaders were purposely trying to get people to admit there is no God, or to convert them to Atheism (is that even possible), then you just have your interpretation and opinion."

You can't convert to atheism. All this "Unless you can prove my impossible to prove standard" stuff is bullshit. Statist leaders mandated that people be taught that there is no God and killed those who contradicted them. If that isn't trying to force atheism on people, I don't know what is.



British schools stop teaching about the holocaust in order not to "upset" muslims who believe it didnt happen. Disturbing.

TF--why would they have to have people admit there is no God--they were killed--so why convert?

They were killed to eradicate God.

Dictators do not convert--they opprese and kill the populace for disagreeing.

So you agree, they were being all around dictators, fighting the power of organized religion and not staging a religious war, as others are trying to prove. The point of the Crusades and Radical Islamics today is to convert other peoples to their way of thinking, thinking that will please God. That's what a religious war is about.


Christians in the US want to force kids to pray in school and keep the Sabbath Holy by not allowing business on Sunday. per TF

Not true on both statements.

Posted by MURPHY

Then why is business restricted on Sundays in the state where I live? What other reason is there? And prayer in schools has been an issue as long as I've been alive.
And no, saying "We just want to the kids to be able to pray to any God" is as false a motivation as the Medical Marijuana issue. It's all about getting your foot in the door.
Here's some links for you...
thelandofpromise.blogspot.com
findarticles.com
en.wikipedia.org

Then why is business restricted on Sundays in the state where I live?

other than liquor sales I don't know what you are talking about. And where I live...Liquor store owners support that law.

And prayer in schools has been an issue as long as I've been alive.

Not a serious one. It is a cheap wedge device for politicians to win elections.

psssst...c.p.? they were also successful in removing piggy banks from the workplace as the thought of swine is repulsive to them in the u.k. - not to worry, christianity is on the decline there, however.

tfdn still babbling about all the rights he's lost because of christianity? shiite! if he'd only waste some of that time praising some of our efforts - think of the strides we could make!

another thing - the sabbath is and always will be friday sundown to saturday sundown.

one war being fought behind the scenes in the name of athiesm since the 1930's.

other than liquor sales I don't know what you are talking about.

Posted by eberly

One example is enough. There used to be more, but thanks to the tireless efforts of non-Christians, those laws have been removed.
-------

one war being fought behind the scenes in the name of athiesm since the 1930's.

Posted by nanc

Hardly a war, I don't see them persecuting non-Humanists.

-----

tfdn still babbling about all the rights he's lost because of christianity?

Posted by nanc

Actually, see above, it's more like rights gained by the efforts of non-Christians.

"Statist leaders mandated that people be taught that there is no God and killed those who contradicted them. If that isn't trying to force atheism on people, I don't know what is."

Posted by Sully at 2008-07-08 04:40 PM | Reply |

link?

"link?"

What do links prove?

If you don't know how communist states repress religion than you aren't qualified to be having this discussion.

"Sorry guys, as much as I hate to admit it. BBob is running rings around you logically. The eradication of religion is not the same as the promotion of Atheism.
I can put down A without promoting B."


Not when a= having an apple and b=not having an apple.
Speak of logic, go ahead, i'm sure some 3rd grade teacher will be happy to use your word as a example of incorrect.



"Dictators kill anyone who opposes them--it wasn't the religion--it was the power."

"it was the power."


Totalitarian governments oppose religion because it requires a higher power then themselves. Dictators do no like completion, therefore need to eradicate all other sources of authority. By destroying one belief system and forcing your own upon them you gain control of every aspect of their lives. In the case of an atheistic government destroying a mono-theistic or deity based belief system remove all opposing forces and uninvited outside influence. Yes, by removing all other religious options you have only atheism left and by default you are forcing atheism on the people. I do not advocate requiring a belief system for anyone and cannot imagine living in a place that would take whatever i believe away, compared to that death would be welcome.

"If you don't know how communist states repress religion than you aren't qualified to be having this discussion."


You forget this is a guy that think corporate power is a sign of communism.

I think Sal just opened up a can of whoop ass on folks !!!

Yes, by removing all other religious options you have only atheism left and by default you are forcing atheism on the people.

Totalitarian governments oppose religion because it requires a higher power then themselves


So true--so true...

Atheism is a religion of sorts--the belief in nothing..

"Atheism is a religion of sorts--the belief in nothing.."

Wrong, Murphy. All atheism is, is the lack of belief in theism. And a-leprechaunism is the lack of belief in leprechauns. Are you a aleprechaunist, Murphy?

I think Sal just opened up a can of whoop ass on folks !!!

Posted by MURPHY

You would.

Religious leaders were killed because they were leaders--their religion was incidental.
Intellectuals were killed because they were leaders--their religion was incidental.
Professors were killed because they were leaders--their religion was incidental.
Teachers were killed because they were leaders--their religion was incidental.
Writers were killed because they were leaders--their religion was incidental.
Powerful people were killed because they were leaders--their religion was incidental.
Is it getting through yet? They were killing leaders--not promoting atheism.
Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2008-07-08 02:00 PM

Bob, this logic is flawed - and here's why:

Let's start with everyone else besides religious people - "they were killed because they were leaders";

Intellectuals were killed because they were leaders--their religion was incidental BUT, their intellectual-ism was NOT incidental.
Professors were killed because they were leaders--their religion was incidental, BUT theirprofessorships were NOT incidental.
Teachers were killed because they were leaders--their religion was incidental, BUT the fact that they were teachers was NOT incidental.
Writers were killed because they were leaders--their religion was incidental, BUT the fact that they had a writing ability that opposed the state was NOT incidental.
Powerful people were killed because they were leaders--their religion was incidental, BUT their POWER was not incidental.

Now let's look at the religious people.

Religious leaders were killed because they were leaders--their religion was NOT incidental because it was the impetus to them being leaders and therefore the reason they were killed.

PS Sorry for joining the discussion late. :)

Sorry guys, as much as I hate to admit it. BBob is running rings around you logically. The eradication of religion is not the same as the promotion of Atheism.
I can put down A without promoting B.

Posted by TFDNihilist

TFDN, this is true, EXCEPT when A and B are mutually exclusive and the eradication of A automatically leads to a promotion of B.

Because Atheism is a lack of religious belief ("It is also[3] defined more broadly as synonymous with any form of nontheism" en.wikipedia.org), and religiousity is the presence of religious belief (2 mutually exclusive ideas), by putting down religiousity, you are automatically promoting atheism. You're basically saying that religiousity is bad. Therefore, the logical conclusion is that NO religiousity (or atheism, as defined above) is good.

All atheism is, is the lack of belief in theism.
Posted by nullifidian

Exactly Nullifidian!! That's why TFDN's and Bob's argument fails! The only way to actively promote the lack of something (in this case, the lack of theism, called atheism) is to fight against what currently exists (theism or religiousity). Actions taken by dictators that fight against theism or seek to bring it down are, by default, promoting atheism.

Dang, 3 posts in a row! Looks like I might have missed the good part of this discussion...

"I don't which group is more ridiculous: The Chicken Littles who screach about Sharia coming here or the nimrods who must prove they have no sense of perspective or degree when they respond "Durr, We already do, Christian Sharia.........".


Keep fighting it out."

Posted by Sully

Win.

Exactly Nullifidian!! That's why TFDN's and Bob's argument fails! The only way to actively promote the lack of something (in this case, the lack of theism, called atheism) is to fight against what currently exists (theism or religiousity). Actions taken by dictators that fight against theism or seek to bring it down are, by default, promoting atheism.

Posted by bartimus at 2008-07-09 10:50 AM

I think there is a fine distinction between the two, so obviously it is good for debate.

The totalitarian regime was killing the religious leaders (and many other leaders) for a matter of control, not conversion or promotional value. The intent was not to promote the idea of atheism, but to control or eliminate powerful groups in a totalitarian regime.

While the religious wars had the intent to promote the religion there (although control and elimination of groups is part of that too).

I'll admit it's a fine line

BigJohn1972

You are correct. However, I doubt you can explain it to others.

They seem to think that because a religious leader was killed, that he was killed because he was religious. They can't grasp the concept of his being killed because he was a leader and that the religious part was not a factor. If the same person had been leading a thousand atheists--he would have been killed also. They have reached the limit of their comprehension and understanding.

"They can't grasp the concept of his being killed because he was a leader and that the religious part was not a factor."
--BUFFALO_BOB

Boob will not grasp that the religious killers of the world have done so largely for the same reasons. Boob will not grasp that killers are killers with or without religion.

BUT Live or Die, the huge numbers killed by the religious (I would say more than the irreligious world wide over the centuries) one must question why the presumption of morality given to religion?

When religious texts from major religions followed today have passages in it about wiping out your enemies, or 'gods' enemies, that is a powerful motivator, more powerful than money or power.

Boob will not grasp that killers are killers with or without religion.

Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2008-07-09 11:01 PM


You fail to grasp the concept that people like Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot were crazy--mentally ill. The people who kill for religion are sane and think they are doing good--Gods work in fact, and nothing could be nobler. Without the God concept, they would not be killers since no one would believe in their sky fairies but them.

Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion. ~ Steven Weinberg

Remember the Mormons slaughter of innocents (Mountain Meadows Massacre)? Perfect example of good people doing bad things all because of religion.

"You fail to grasp the concept that people like Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot were crazy--mentally ill. The people who kill for religion are sane and think they are doing good"
--BUFFALO_BOB

Once again you display ignorance. (not a surprise)

Stalin/Hitler/Pol Pot himself may have been crazy, but his people were not. His people went along with the slaughter for varying reasons. But the leaders all wanted money, power, & control. Whatever reasons they gave the populace to get them to go along with their plans were bull shit fed to them, invoking fear and some concept of a higher purpose. Exactly the same with religion; the leaders want money, power, & control, and they get it by instilling fear in people to get them to comply.

"With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion." ~ Steven Weinberg

Or fear that the state will imprison you. (duh)

"BUT Live or Die, the huge numbers killed by the religious (I would say more than the irreligious world wide over the centuries) one must question why the presumption of morality given to religion?"
--BIGJOHN_1972

More people, especially in history, have had some form of religion, so it only makes sense that more atrocities would be committed by the religious, since they have largely outnumbered the irreligious.

That says nothing about whether or not religion itself somehow inherently turns people into killers. It just shows that religion doesn't necessarily keep people from doing evil.


"When religious texts from major religions followed today have passages in it about wiping out your enemies, or 'gods' enemies, that is a powerful motivator, more powerful than money or power."

Posted by bigjohn_1972

Bullshit. That's just an opinion, but so was your post.

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