Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Monday, July 07, 2008

Under Sen. John McCain's health plan, which proposes a $2,500 tax credit for health insurance and taxes employer contributions as income, companies may decide to drop insurance coverage as their costs increase. "What you'll see happening is average cost in the employer-market will go up and average cost in the individual market will go down," said researcher Paul Fronstin. "At some point, employers will start to ask: Why am I doing this if my workers don't value it anymore? If I don't need to do this to be competitive in the labor market, why should I do it?"

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How many employers would drop insurance coverage for their workers because of his tax policies?


Gee no tax write off.

WTF do you think!

A thinly veiled tax increase on the middle class.

To replace a tax free employment fringe benefit with a $5,000 tax credit that pays for less than 1/2 the cost of family coverage?

Sounds like a great plan!


For millionaires.

Fortunately John McBush will never be president and the Rethugs will not have another majority in his life time so I doubt that his health care non-plan is going anywhere except the trash.

It seems pretty clear that either one of these guys is going to do something to really fuck up the system.

With either as president, if they get what they want, I'm betting that many of the specialist MDs stop taking insurance alltogether... you pay cash upfront and then you deal with getting reimbursed by your insurance after the fact.

That's when the fun will really start.


Rob, you are right. what do you do them when your company decides they don't want to pay it?

you're screwed.....again.

As long as insurance companies (the nation's largest real estate lenders) are floated buy guv'ment bailouts and insurance in turn becomes mandatory by law... (auto) it will be taxation without representaion... revolutions have been waged in this nation for less.

It's pretty foolish to rely on the government for your health care. You might end up on the roof surrounded by water waiting for FEMA to rescue you. A better plan is to swim to high ground.

How about the FWTHOM health care plan (it's free): Go on a 2500 calorie a day diet, exercise 2 hours a day, give up all drugs and alcohol, no T.V. and read the Bible 2 hours a day.

"revolutions have been waged in this nation for less"

Revolutions have not been fought because government had national health care. I don't know what you are smoking but you probably should stop smoking it.

what do you do them when your company decides they don't want to pay it?

You're fucked...

Messing with the system we have now is a bad idea... at least now, a sizeable majority of Americans are covered and the rest can still get care.

if Obama or McCain fucks with this system and it fails, we're all in trouble.

"It's pretty foolish to rely on an insurance company for your health care. You might end up losing your roof and have the insurance company just refuse to pay the claim like the did thousands of times in Florida.
Government ain't perfect but at least it doesn't make a profit by refusing treatment.

"if Obama or McCain fucks with this system and it fails, we're all in trouble."

Rob doesn't read the newspaper, if he did he'd know we are all in trouble anyway.

How about the FWTHOM health care plan (it's free): Go on a 2500 calorie a day diet, exercise 2 hours a day, give up all drugs and alcohol, no T.V. and read the Bible 2 hours a day.
Posted by fwthom at 2008-07-07 01:05 PM


YEAH!

Sounds allot like the Government Meddling/Telling What I can and Cant do! But hey, what can one expect out of an American-- who promotes Colonial Rule-- anyway!

Rob doesn't read the newspaper

Cuz I'm not 84...

if he did he'd know we are all in trouble anyway.

Posted by danni

Really? I'm not... I can see my doctor whenever I want, I can go see a specialist without a referrel... hell when my baby girl seemed to be a little sick 2 weeks ago I called up and was able to bring her right in to see her doctor. then I went straight to the pharmacy to pick up her antibiotics for the ear infection that was electronically sent there... no wait... $15 bucks.

I can afford healthcare, like many millions of other americans... why should our care have to diminish because of poor people? Yes that's a little heartless, but I'd happily watch all of you starve to death if it meant my girl grows up healthy and strong.

I can afford healthcare, like many millions of other americans... could afford gas just a few months ago. That is the problem with morons....they only see right now....never look to see what problems may be coming....and with the rise in health care insurance costs there is no reason to believe they will still be affordable in even just a couple of years. Health CAre.....just like energy....a problem that righties ignore until it becomes a crisis.

"Yes that's a little heartless, but I'd happily watch all of you starve to death if it meant my girl grows up healthy and strong."

Tell your little girl that when she grows up, I'm sure she'll be proud of Daddy.

Says the girl crying broke and mooching a car from her ex-girlfriend.
Plan ahead Danni.

With either as president, if they get what they want, I'm betting that many of the specialist MDs stop taking insurance alltogether... you pay cash upfront and then you deal with getting reimbursed by your insurance after the fact.

That's when the fun will really start.

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2008-07-07 12:45 PM



Many Md's are already refusing insurance, and requiring payment up front.

could afford gas just a few months ago.

Get a better job and quit crying...

That is the problem with morons....they only see right now

Maybe if you weren't a moron you would have seen beyond the "right now" and planned for higher prices... then you could afford gas now, and even further into the future... like me.

Tell your little girl that when she grows up, I'm sure she'll be proud of Daddy.

Posted by danni

If my father told me that same line, I'd give him a hug and bottle of Johnnie Walker Blue Label King George V Edition...

Many Md's are already refusing insurance, and requiring payment up front.


Posted by Roy_Batty

Yup... a few of the best surgeons here in philly are doing it, and its starting to catch on... especially amonghst the specialists.

There is no law requiring doctors to take insurance, and if the insurances they do take don't cover the costs then they have every right to refuse it.

I can afford healthcare, like many millions of other americans... why should our care have to diminish because of poor people? Yes that's a little heartless, but I'd happily watch all of you starve to death if it meant my girl grows up healthy and strong.

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

So very, very typical of the GOP mindset... I've got mine, up yours !

I'd happily watch all of you starve to death if it meant my girl grows up healthy and strong.



And when she does, someone is going to fuck the living shit out of her.

So very, very typical of the GOP mindset... I've got mine, up yours !

Posted by YoMeLIB at 2008-07-07 01:53 PM | Reply


As opposed to the typical liberal mantra of "I want what you have but don't want to work for it"?

Survival of the fittest and all that jazz.

So very, very typical of the GOP mindset... I've got mine, up yours !

Posted by YoMeLIB

I'm all for safety net social programs like unemployment benefits, medicare, foodstamps and such to help people stay on their feet when they fall on hard times, but if I can pay my own way, I should get better care/service/products/etc then someone who can't... and someone who can afford to pay more then I can, should get better care/service/products/etc then I do.

Everyone should get some basic level of care in this country (which we all do), after that, its what you can afford.

And when she does, someone is going to fuck the living shit out of her.

Posted by Manypaths

That typically happens when girls grow up... just ask DUMPLING1.

"So very, very typical of the GOP mindset... I've got mine, up yours !"

That would be fine with me.

It is actually: "I got mine, now give me yours..."

Hence the redistribution of wealth from future generations of American taxpayers to the beneficiaries of no-bid (no accountability, no criminal liability) contracts in Iraq.

"
could afford gas just a few months ago.


Get a better job and quit crying... "

Due to my Mini I'm not really hurt that bad by gas prices thank you but interesting that you always resort to personal attack rather than really dealing with the ideas presented in the post.
Why is America so shocked by high gas prices????
The same nation will be surprised soon when health care costs spiral completely out of reach for the vast majority.
Since you can't dispute that I guess telling me to get a better job is the best you can muster. Kind of pathetic.
I'll chalk that up as a point for me.

The same nation will be surprised soon when health care costs spiral completely out of reach for the vast majority.

Are you saying the trend will change?

interesting that you always resort to personal attack rather than really dealing with the ideas presented in the post.

You said you can't afford gas... I didn't attack you, I said to get a better job... or I guess you could not drive as much. Either one solves your problem.

The same nation will be surprised soon when health care costs spiral completely out of reach for the vast majority.
Since you can't dispute that

How can I disupte your psychic prediction? No they won't... there... even if they do, which they won't, I'll still be fine because I've taken the necessary steps in my life to reduce expenses and increase income. Now if everyone else does that and they still have problems, fine maybe you'll have a point, but that's not what's going on now is it...

While health care costs doubled, Health Insurance costs quadrupled. What a deal, for you today only.

"I can afford healthcare, like many millions of other americans... why should our care have to diminish because of poor people? "

"So very, very typical of the GOP mindset... I've got mine, up yours !"

Posted by YoMeLIB

That is not a GOP mindset uniquely, but rather an expression of those who don't believe that the Government should be in the business of extorting money from people to give it to somebody else who is somehow deemed less fortunate.

Smells like Socialism to me, it does.

But America is mutating into an ever greater, more expansive, more intrusive Socialist State. Does this please you? Will you feel better about yourself knowing that an ever greater portion of your paycheck is being forcefully extracted while you are struggling to make ends meet with what little you have already, that you will be making due with less? Or are you secure in your thought that if things get so bad for you, well, the State will take care of my needs through that big pot of money that everybody is forced to pay in to. Problem with that is the State will dictate to you what your needs are.

When is enough enough? 50% of your pay? 60%? 75%? How about your paycheck goes straight to the State and then the State sends you what they think is necessary for you and your family to live on. How's that? Sounds real fair for everybody!

"How can I disupte your psychic prediction? No they won't... there... even if they do, which they won't, I'll still be fine because I've taken the necessary steps in my life to reduce expenses and increase income."

Sounds like "famous last words" to me. First you say you can't predict the future then you say you will be fine because you've taken the necessary steps.....how can you know what steps will be necessary???? A self-retorting retort if I ever saw one.

The same nation will be surprised soon when health care costs spiral completely out of reach for the vast majority.

Danni, seriously, I want you to back this assertion up. Where are you getting this? Health care costs "spiraling completely out of reach"?

It has already been increasing at an alarming rate....it's going to get worse???

How do you know?

"Will you feel better about yourself knowing that an ever greater portion of your paycheck is being forcefully extracted while you are struggling to make ends meet with what little you have already, that you will be making due with less?"

Do you feel better knowing that millions of Americans, even with health insurance, have been bankrupted by one single illness???
Number one cause of bankruptcy, BTW.

"Danni, seriously, I want you to back this assertion up. Where are you getting this? Health care costs "spiraling completely out of reach"?"

Seems reasonable to look to the recent past and expect it to continue similarly. Costs are rising so health care costs will rise also, but as in the recent past, they will rise faster than prices in the other parts of the economy.
Keep telling yourself health care costs won't keep rising and go out of reach for most Americans.....it won't change anything though any more than pretending gas prices weren't going to do what they have done.
I don't care, pretend anything you want, it won't change the future though.

Keep telling yourself health care costs won't keep rising...

Once again I can't control the FACT that you just can't debate something without assigning a position that doesn't exists.

I didn't say that health care costs won't keep rising.

I asked if you thought the trend would change. Of course, you don't know shit about it and therefore didn't understand my question. First you would have to know something about it.

"I asked if you thought the trend would change. Of course, you don't know shit about it and therefore didn't understand my question."

No, I just thought it was a stupid question. With gas prices rising as fast as they are OF COURSE health care costs will rise and OF COURSE people (and businsesses) will have less money to spend on health care....so OF COURSE more people will be without health care insurance. I don't really think that is so much an opinion as it is a fact.

No, I just thought....

enough said.

LOL

With gas prices rising as fast as they are OF COURSE health care costs will rise

I'm sorry, why are these two so related?

"I'm sorry, why are these two so related?"

If I have to explain that to you Rob.....

Hey Rob think about it. Takes more dollars to make a bedpan and those goofy things You piss into so You don't have to get out of bed. Then You have the price of bandages going up and the fuel to transport all of the stuff to the Hospitals shit Rob it's easy to see how gas prices affect health care costs.

Larry

The same nation will be surprised soon when health care costs spiral completely out of reach for the vast majority.

Then the health care industry would be out of business.

not going to happen.

Then You have the price of bandages going up and the fuel to transport all of the stuff to the Hospitals shit Rob it's easy to see how gas prices affect health care costs.


Larry

Posted by LarryMohr

Sure, I can see how they could have an impact with the cost of delivering supplies and whatnot, but i don't see how as danni said its going to spiral out of control to the point where the majority of Americans can't afford it...

Frankly I have an easier time believing that gay marriage will destroy regular marriage... and that's a load of horsecrap too.

Frankly I have an easier time believing that gay marriage will destroy regular marriage... and that's a load of horsecrap too.

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole


good point. but if someone needs to spew their paranoia in order to make a point then what can you do?

"Sure, I can see how they could have an impact with the cost of delivering supplies and whatnot, but i don't see how as danni said its going to spiral out of control to the point where the majority of Americans can't afford it..."

62,000 jobs lost last month Rob.
Value of dollar has fallen 41% since 2000.
GM is on the verge of bankruptcy.
Why do you think health care businesses are immune?
If people don't have money then it doesn't matter what the need is, they can't pay for it.
Health Care as an industry won't go bankrupt but I bet there will be health care businesses that do.
If our economy goes down then so too will the incomes of doctors and other health care professionals.

Not true Eberly. It's like the funeral home doesn't matter how much the service You still will pay it because You are stuck.

Larry

"spew their paranoia"

paranoia = common sense

Same common sense that realized that the housing bubble would burst.
It is ridiculous to pretend health care will avoid the recession (depression).

It's like the funeral home doesn't matter how much the service You still will pay it because You are stuck.

Larry,

what is that analogy supposed to mean? If you can afford the service then you can afford the service. Health care is a different story completely.

If our economy goes down then so too will the incomes of doctors and other health care professionals.

Economies are cyclical... if it goes down, it will eventually come back up. Your econominc scare tactics aren't working Danni.

Unemployment is still very low, relatively speaking is going to stay that way... hell even if we fall back to the recession levels from early 2001-2002 its still going to be under 10%.

No matter what, people are going to get sick, get hurt, need help... Doctors' pay isn't going down by any real amount that would concern me...

Same common sense that realized that the housing bubble would burst.

It was not paranoia to suggest that housing would get a significant adjustment. show me where you were challenged on that.

It is ridiculous to pretend health care will avoid the recession (depression).

explain this assertion please. I'm not sure what you mean.

"It was not paranoia to suggest that housing would get a significant adjustment. show me where you were challenged on that."

Probably not by you but there were some who touted the "great Bush economy" and predicted that housing prices would continue to rise indefinitely. I'm not now going to go looking for those though.

"explain this assertion please."

If America is in a recession or goes into a recession or a depression there is no reason to think health care will not be affected. If people don't have jobs, don't have money, don't have insurance....the health care industry will suffer financially right along with the rest of us and I bet already is beginning to feel it.

"Unemployment is still very low, relatively speaking is going to stay that way... "

If you are willing to consider "unemployment" to actually be defined by the terms which are used to get the unemployment numbers. I have read many articles lately where economists admit those numbers are virtually meaningless and that unemployment is much higher than government statistics indicate. Common sense backs up their assertions.

the health care industry will suffer financially right along with the rest of us and I bet already is beginning to feel it.

That is what I thought you meant. Of course the health care industry will be impacted. But if costs "spiral out of reach for the vast majority of Americans" then the health care industry is finished.

Which is it? suffer or be out of business??

"No matter what, people are going to get sick, get hurt, need help... Doctors' pay isn't going down by any real amount that would concern me..."

We'll continue the argument is a year or so.

"Which is it? suffer or be out of business??"

I guess it depends on the depth of the recession we are heading into. If it ends up like a 1929 style depression then many will go out of business. If it is just a seventies style recession then it may not be so severe. I think though that it is going to be severe because energy costs effect everything. Even heating and cooling a hospital will become much more expensive while the consumer's ability to pay will shrink. I think some large hospitals may actually go under just like some cities will. IT has even been suggested that some states may go bankrupt.

It's not that they can afford the service. Many can't but yet they get stuck paying it anyways because the in many places it is required that a body be buried by pros and not how they did it back in ott six. Same thing with medical care. Many can't afford it but yet they pay it because they are forced to.

Larry

If you motherfuckers want health care so bad then show up at your local emergency room and get in line with illegals, druggies, nut cases and inner city scunbags.

Compassionate Conservative Thom

"With either as president, if they get what they want, I'm betting that many of the specialist MDs stop taking insurance alltogether... you pay cash upfront and then you deal with getting reimbursed by your insurance after the fact."

Many doctors are already not accepting ANY insurance. It's cheaper to not even bother filling out the stupid bull#shit claim forms, than to just opt out and go cash/credit card only...

" MDs stop taking insurance alltogether."

Mine did 30 years ago.

Idiots.

i252.photobucket.com

Cash or check; Same for my dentist of >40 years.

Take your credit card and shove it.

the health care industry will suffer financially right along with the rest of us and I bet already is beginning to feel it.

Posted by danni

Not from the homes of the Attending surgeons I've been too over the past couple weeks... Or from the mailers we get weekly from practices recruiting residents with ridiculous salaries and signing bonuses...

Maybe people from the dickbag schools are having a tough time... but from what I've seen first hand i'm not worried.

I love this plan by McCain (I think that makes about three things I agree with him on...ok, that might be generous). We used to talk about going to a personal system and away from an employer system back in Econ 7-8 years ago. It is so advantageous to allow each person's individual health determine their costs, just like with life insurance. If your costs are a little high, stop doing those things that cause you to have poor health (over eating is a good place to start). I understand some people have conditions that they are born with. Here is where your state government (see New Mexico) can create a great affordable plan for those who cannot get insurance elsewhere.

Otherwise, let's keep the same system we have. One thing we cannot afford to do is go to a national health insurance system (see David Walker or Ben Bernanke). That will bankrupt our country a lot faster than our current system possibly could. If you want the government to get into health care, demand it at the state level, but not the federal level.

"If you want the government to get into health care, demand it at the state level, but not the federal level."

Stupid idea. The whole reason a national healthcare plan works is by reducing cost through volume.

This is why Canada etc can afford it, and the U.S. cannot. It's called: military spending.

Historically, no nation that has EVER existed has EVER been able to take care of it's domestic and hold a military empire together over the long term. Rome, Britian, Spain, France, etc... They all tried it, and they all gave up when their economies went bust.

Domestic spending is not a static function. It's a curve that depends on everything from population, to the kind of things you can do on your land, to what kind of eduction is required to maximise utility for the populace. i.e. If domestic spending was a straight line, we could all grow up illiterate farmers and would be able to fly the space shuttle.

The root problem for the right here is that it has no historical cognoscence, and thus can be convinced of ANYTHING (wars for corporate profit, etc), as long as they are thrown a bone occasionally (don't let women use contraception or something else retarded).

The right is again pathelogically wrong on just about every issue, and will never correct its basic mistakes (visualize a thirsty man standing next to a poison well, having a 5 second memory). He will get sick, over and over and over and over.

This is why Canada etc can afford it, and the U.S. cannot.

And yet for some reason, when people get really sick they can't come to American hospitals like HHS, Harvard, Hopkins, Penn, Boston Childrens, etc fast enough...

I wonder why that is... I mean it certainly couldn't be that although free, Canadian healthcare and doctors are still lesser in quality and skill to those in the United States... nah... their care is free... so it must be better.

Again the right is wrong.

The upper tier of medical care is among the best in the world. So it was in the rest of the empires I mentioned. You are essentially saying that because we still manage make among the best cheesecake, that the rest of the restaraunt is also the best.

FWadThom made a good point without realizing what he was saying a few posts back with "show up at your local emergency room and get in line with" the the usual Wide Stance Racist list of undesirables.

What the moron failed to realize is that this is a big part of what is causing the huge hike in health insurance rates. The more people the hospitals have to treat for free, the more costs they pass on to the paying customers (that would be you). Those 400,000 newly unemployed and their dependents will be appearing in your local ER soon with severe (expensive) illnesses that would have cost very little to treat at their GP's office if they still had insurance (or a job).

This partially explains why my COBRA bill just went from $1041.00/month to $1372/month. But I don't have to worry too much longer since COBRA coverage is only available for 18 months. Then my insurance bill will go to zero and the wife and I'll be heading down to the ER for free care on Fwad's and Rob's tab.

The morons in the Jeff Gannon/KKKarl Rove camp are always spewing idiotic crap about keeping the Federal Government out of heath care. As if the feds were going to conscript all the doctors and put them to work in government run hospitals and clinics.

That will never happen in this country. Noone has ever proposed anything like this.

The country has essentially two fed-run healthcare systems: The military system which also includes the VA hospitals, and Medicare.

Simply open Medicare up to the under-65 crowd on a voluntary basis. Charge them for their coverage based on their age. Adjust rates and coverage to keep the system running in the black. Since Medicare is by far the most efficient health insurance delivery system in the country, it wouldn't take long for the rates to settle down and people would find that opting for Medicare would be far cheaper than Aetna, Blue Cross and the other for-profit companies. Not everyone would switch but enough would make the change to force the for-profit companies to start adjusting their rates to compete.
Everyone wins.

Unemployment is still very low, relatively speaking is going to stay that way... hell even if we fall back to the recession levels from early 2001-2002 its still going to be under 10%.


Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

I find it hilarious that the same people who say that government cannot be trusted buy into the information hook line and sinker that support their position.

Hilarious.

Since Medicare is by far the most efficient health insurance delivery system in the country, it wouldn't take long for the rates to settle down and people would find that opting for Medicare would be far cheaper than Aetna, Blue Cross and the other for-profit companies. Not everyone would switch but enough would make the change to force the for-profit companies to start adjusting their rates to compete.


Shhhhhhhh! Government is evil. Government is bad. Medicare bad. To even suggest that the golden children of corporate america compete with a government program is pure insanity! My God the poor CEO's might have to take a friggin pay cut.

THE HORROR!

What the moron failed to realize is that this is a big part of what is causing the huge hike in health insurance rates. The more people the hospitals have to treat for free, the more costs they pass on to the paying customers (that would be you)

The frighty rightys always overlook this sad statistic.

Then my insurance bill will go to zero and the wife and I'll be heading down to the ER for free care on Fwad's and Rob's tab.

Posted by axe

Hey asshole, why don't you and your freeloaiding wife get your lazy fucking asses up and get a job.

Do it for your own good, stupid. You know what happens to people who just get ER treatment? You're stabalized and kicked out the fucking door... its not great healthcare... sure its a saftey net and you'll get whatever pills I'm sure you and your wife are addicted too, but any real problems aren't getting treated.


Again the right is wrong.


The upper tier of medical care is among the best in the world.

Nope.

Big guy, my wife is a doctor... I spend more time in hospitals or talking to doctors then any 4 people should in their lifetime. Yeah, if you don't have insurance you're fucked... you get to go to the ER and get shitty treatment... but if you have Insurance of any kind the hospitals and the doctors and the staff will work to get you what you need.

LOL... but tell me more about the Carthaginians...

"Unemployment is still very low, relatively speaking is going to stay that way..."

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

The unemployment rate, as reported, is not accurate as the rate only considers those who have applied for Unemployment benefits. The rest is a guess.

If I were to lose my job, I would not even be a blip in the count because I am currently an independent contractor.

The self-employed also do not register.

The unemployment rate is much higher than reported.

"Then my insurance bill will go to zero and the wife and I'll be heading down to the ER for free care on Fwad's and Rob's tab."

Posted by axe

No such thing as free care. It must be paid for.

You will be billed for any services. As long as you have assets of any sort, you will not receive any public assistance.

Now if you don't care about having a decent credit rating, don't plan on obtaining any loans, need to get a security clearance, etc., then get your boo-boo fixed and don't bother to pay.

The unemployment rate is much higher than reported.

Posted by ZOT

Okay, even if its 10%... that's still pretty low

"Okay, even if its 10%... that's still pretty low"

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

I would consider that very high.

For example, if the US has 200 million people capable of working, that would be 20 million unemployed. that would be more orless to the entire combined populations of New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Philadelphia, and Phoenix.

90% of the work force employed is hardly an economic crisis...

Hell even if the numbers were accurate and its about 5% that's still 10,000,000 unemployed with your 200 Million figure... so what that would be the combined populations of NYC, LA and Chicago (I don't actually know that, I just halved your list). Seems that would be considered "very high" too when you look at it that way, but it really isn't that bad... in fact 5% unemployment is really good.

"but it really isn't that bad.."

meaning it isn't hurting Rob personally. Self-centered folks only concern themselves with what effects them directly.

meaning it isn't hurting Rob personally.

5% unemployment, wouldn't be hurting literally hundreds of millions of Americans as well... actually same with 10%

but it really isn't that bad... in fact 5% unemployment is really good.

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

That's because the economy doesn't need full employment... actually needs the 5% to be unemployed. the 5% unemployed acts as stick to the carrot of a job, and we're the jackass.

"Big guy, my wife is a doctor... I spend more time in hospitals or talking to doctors then any 4 people should in their lifetime. Yeah, if you don't have insurance you're fucked... you get to go to the ER and get shitty treatment... but if you have Insurance of any kind the hospitals and the doctors and the staff will work to get you what you need."

Are you illiterate? I said the "upper tier".

"That's because the economy doesn't need full employment... actually needs the 5% to be unemployed. the 5% unemployed acts as stick to the carrot of a job, and we're the jackass."

Best line i've seen in the this toilet so far.

That was pretty good.

"5% unemployment, wouldn't be hurting literally hundreds of millions of Americans as well... actually same with 10%"

not hundreds of millions but certainly millions.
It hurts more than just the unemployed and their families and their creditors and the places where they would shop.....it ripples throughout the entire economy.

Best line i've seen in the this toilet so far.

Posted by Shawn

Thanks.

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