Gay.

The term "swift boat" as a verb is not a diss towards people who served honorably on swift boats back in 'Nam.

It's a diss to a specific group of R-tards who were built up to tear down one of their own fer political gain.

Complaining about the vaguaries of the evolution of the english language is worse than useless most days.

May as well try and turn the tide back.

Be Well.

/Like he do, the tater o doom has left the blog-building, exiting the Dell driven Drudge Retort
stage left.

I know all Americans with their head screwed on straight--whether left center or right in politics--can tell the difference between the brave who served and the Neocon smear artists who co-opted the Swift name to do their lying campaign.

I don't wish to be swiftboated for posting this comment but what's done is done -- the term has evolved to become what it is. Welcome to the world of evolving language.

"Mr. Pickens refused to pay on his challenge, and he suggested that the Swift boat colleagues who submitted records and other materials in defense of Mr. Kerry take up their disagreement with the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth."

Because he, like the rest of the SwiftBoat Liars are cowardly scum bags shaming the rest of the Swift Boat veterans.

I guess he and the other swift boaters could've stood up for themselves when their good name was being used to lie about a presidential candidate.

Oh well. Their laziness ... or tacit approval of what was done has become what it now is.

This swift boater wasn't so swift when it really could've made a difference

Hag,

I agree, when they could have done something they sat by and let the lying trounce on a fellow vet and now because of their own cowardly silence they complain.

They what their good name back... Fucking comical.

These same assholes said nothing of George W. Bushes Cowardess when he joined the Texas National Guard (7) days before his last Vietnam Draft deferrment ended leap-frogging some 16,000 other Texans who applied for Guard service well before him (Most never made it in), but he got in the day he applied assuring he would never have to put his silver spoon ass on a front line at a time when 300-400 soldiers per week were being killed.
Or Dick Cheney... (5) draft deferments and an open claim.."I did serve in the miltary or go to Vietnam because and I quote...."more important things to do". Cheney's last deferrment reasoning was.. "I had to watch my Mom".

So these jackasses beat up someone who did serve and met his obligation to a complete bullshit war but they defend cowards.

As far as I'm concerned these swift boat assholes need to get their asses back in their shot and beer bars and go fuck themselves.

It means telling the truth about a public figure, it means "speaking truth to power". Kerry never did disprove anything they said about him. Here we are four years later, and he still hasn't released his military records.

I agree that they have only themselves to blame. They saw a fellow swiftboater being unfairly attacked day after day and did nothing. Said nothing. Stood for nothing. Now when the slime starts to affect them---NOW they are concerned.

"It means telling the truth about a public figure, it means "speaking truth to power". Kerry never did disprove anything they said about him. Here we are four years later, and he still hasn't released his military records."

Posted by clevey at 2008-06-30 08:32 AM | Reply

Where have you been? In a cave?

So Kerry was in Cambodia on Christmas Eve? He really did throw his medals over the fence?

STFU you lying sack.

Take it up with the right wing fucktards that used their swift boat service to lie and smear a veteran.

Don't get me wrong, I do feel bad for this guy... to a degree. No serviceman/woman should have their service unjustly disparaged.

I just wish he had spoken sooner rather than later.

I don't know about Cambodia but I can tell you that the atrocities Kerry spoke of really did happen. We'd like to believe our soldiers are squeaky clean but anyone who was in that war knows lotsa nasty shit happened.

Well EP, I and anyone that has bothered to look in to it knows about the Cambodia lie. Same with the medals.

Kerry was his own worst enemy. He made vietnam a constant during his campaign and then hid when people attacked him on it. He should have defended himself, but because you can't get a purple heart for hurt feelings he probably thought it wasn't worth it.

Hey Clevey you ignorant slut...

"Kerry allows Navy release of military, medical records
Show numerous commendations
By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff | June 7, 2005

WASHINGTON -- Senator John F. Kerry, ending at least two years of refusal, has waived privacy restrictions and authorized the release of his full military and medical records."

well this guy CAN do something about it.
all they would have to do is to renounce everything concerning the republican party, ask george soros to bankroll them and make sure that the only people that they "swift boat" are republicans or right wingers or the evagelicals........and shit fellers......
not only would they get their good name back but every swinging liberal dick on this site would call them patriots and a group of people out to save the republic.
this is an old story.
so what is the name of ALL of the "swift boats" who are out to 'sink'....get it....the conservative ships.......OH YEAH......THOSE DONT FUCKIN COUNT DO THEY........

(ah yes......its good to take the first DR post of the morning and HIT IT OUT OF THE PARK>.....)

As I said, I don't know any more about Cambodia then what was reported. I do know many got their panties in a twist over the brutality there, believing American troops wouldn't do that that sorta thing. They did do that sort of thing, and anyone with a brain would just shut up and say nothing about it. It was, by all accounts, a very nasty war.

if it weren't for the scumbags that abused the term, none of us would ever have heard it in the first place. They were anonymous beforehand and they can easily remain anonymous now.

It was, by all accounts, a very nasty war.

Posted by evilpolock at 2008-06-30 09:05 AM | Reply

There hasn't been an armed conflict that wasn't nasty.

In all honesty I'm not sure why you're focusing on the brutality? Is there somebody out there that thinks war isn't brutal?
The problem with Kerry's comments was that he was parroting the anti-war rhetoric and bolstering "baby killer" stereotyping.
In WW2 they carpet bombed entire cities, reconed by fire, shot first asked questions later, etc

To have one of your own come back and paint with such a broad brush, and demonize the troops is betrayal.

"Demonize the troops...."

Chairborne has this strange, strange idea that it's acceptable to state war is brutal only when he does it.

If war is brutal than those that fight wars must be brutal. Therefore "demonization" must often be accurate.

This crap about how we carpet bomb cities but we're all just candy-stripers despite that is just damned weird.

Boone Pickens seems to owe one or more vets one million dollars.

Zed,
You have this strange habit of reading a post and translating it incorrectly.
War is brutal. Some people make it that way. Painting every soldier as a brutal sociopathic slicer and dicer or even labeling a large portion of them that way is where there's a problem.

See if you can wrap your tiny little mind around that. Until then, pound salt.

"To have one of your own come back and paint with such a broad brush, and demonize the troops is betrayal."

Unless of course you were one of the many, many, many troops who agreed with every word he said and applauded him and made him a hero for testifying before Congress and telling....OMG!!!...THE TRUTH.
We need more John Kerry's and fewer Swift Boat Liars who work for and were paid by Richard Fucking Nixon as John O'neil was.

"Paiting every soldier as a brutal sociopathic slicer...."

Chairborne, as I recall, Kerry's prme critique was that American forces used free-fire zones in Nam.

Did such zones exist, or not?

Please exercise thy tiny little mind to it's utmost, Mr. Chair. Even considering it's you, it can't take more than a moment to provide a yes or a no.

One can almost hear the cogs turning.....

Unless of course you were one of the many, many, many troops who agreed with every word he said

looking at it from a purely numerical side.....werent there a lot more who agreed with oneil than kerry? or do I have that backwards?

No Whining, Mr. Swiftboater. Where were you in 2004 when your country needed you? Not that it matters with Diebold in charge.

Are you Boyd's twin? What in the fuck are you even talking about?
Ghengis Kahn references....Focus Zed, focus. What does a free fire zone have to do with rape, mutilation, etc?

This is why paying any attention to you at all is fruitless. You fail to comprehend the written word time and time again. Similar tyo Boyd, you read a post, and then post asking or answering something that is not even being discussed.

"werent there a lot more who agreed with oneil than kerry?"

I don't know the numbers but it is irrelevant, Kerry spoke for a significant number, ALL the Vietnam Vets I knew in those days certainly agreed with him. I can't remember one single one that supported the war after they returned home, none encouraged anyone else to go. They hated the war and the government that sent them there to fight it. I am sure there were those on the other side that I didn't know but I believe history shows that those opposed to that stupid war were correct. Even Robert McNamara says so today.

I don't know the numbers but it is irreleva

NO NO NO NO>.....here is your own words....

Unless of course you were one of the many, many, many troops who agreed with every word he said

you said the word 'many' THREE Times.....and now you say the numbers dont matter.....so which is it?
many times three or that doesnt matter.....

BLT...won't you leave poor Danni be in peace? You KNOW she doesn't have all the dots on her dice. Besides, she has optiorectumitis. Her optic nerves are entangled with her sphincter and she just doesn't know whether to shit or go blind. Have pity, man.

101,
You misunderstood what I was saying. I was just bringing up the "war crimes" part of the Kerry swift boating party. In 03-04, I heard Viet Nam vets say, over and over, that what Kerry said about the viciousness was unstubstantiated. All I was saying is it was substantiated. The argument that it didn't happen was a lie. I had a first sergeant who did 3 tours, the last 2 voluntarily...very heavily decorated. The stories he told...well, it was brutal. Same with a crew chief I was stationed with in Korea.

EP,
It's not that I disagreed with what you were saying, I just didn't see the context at the time.

In World War 2 a Norwegian named Vidkun Quisling collaborated with the Nazis. His surname forever became a part of many languages. Was that the world's fault or Quisling's?

If swift-boaters deliberately and knowingly sacrificed their integrity - none came forward to denounce their ugly shipmates - they etched their names into the annals of infamy by themselves by giving us the last four years of Bush.. herm

"Her optic nerves"

My optic nerves still remember seeing the Life Magazine cover with the little Vietnamese girl on fire running down the road.

Jestgettingalong is just another former righties who are now just trolls. No real arguments just insults, etc. I guess you post with what you got, which in Jest's case, ain't much.

It is so funny watching the righty tightys squirm under the weight of their own bullshit after a few short years of delusions of success. Now all that is left for them to do is argue petty irrelevant points that will never add an iota of truth to the boldness of their recently past claims. All the wonderful things you were going to do... and the marvels you were going to show the libbruls.

You assholes... it is funny to watch... even in its tragedy.

Oh yeah why don't you guys try doing the Bushling won the elections happy dance.

No matter...as some have said, the reality is if these guys had spoken up in 04, their "good name" would not have been tarnished. It's that simple.
It would have taken some steam out of the swiftboaters attack but then again, maybe these guys cared more about Dubya getting re-elected, at the time.

Kerry went to Vietnam because traditionally, having a military career and fighting in your generation's war was a pre-requisiste to high political office. That is why he brought his camera and re-enacted battle scenes with it while he was there. He was building a resume and taking pictures to back it up. There is really nothing wrong with any of that and his choice was certainly braver than the ones made by people who tried to paint him as a wussy.

But when he came home, he realized that the political climate had changed and being anti-war was the way to go. So he throws his fellow soldiers under the bus as quickly as possible and makes some fake gestures like pretending to throw away medals. His anti-war stance was pure schtick. Being against a phoney who snipes at his former comrades for political gain and being against the war are not mutually exclusive positions. You don't have to think that the Vietnam War was a happy fun time in order to find Kerry's post-war grandstanding a little fucked up.

Having said that, the Swift Boaters for Truth ending up doing the same thing Kerry did when he came home from the war: Throwing another veteran under the bus for political reasons.

"So he throws his fellow soldiers under the bus as quickly as possible"

Yeah, asking "How do you ask a man to be the last one to die for a lost cause" is really throwing them under the bus. He tried to throw some politicians under the bus who deserved for the bus to run over them and back up and do it again and.....one of those politicians...Richard Nixon HIRED John O'neil (Swiftboat Veterans for Truth) to follow Kerry around, harrass him, vilify him, lie about him, slander him.....and you still attack Kerry instead of the disgusting garbage attacking him. Pathetic. You deserved the presidency of George Bush.

"and you still attack Kerry instead of the disgusting garbage attacking him. Pathetic. You deserved the presidency of George Bush."

Danni - You suffer from the thinking disorder I like to call "Good Guy/Bad Guy Syndrome". The chief symptom is the delusional belief that in every situation, there is a Good Guy and a Bad Guy. So if the people who attack Kerry are bad, then Kerry must be good. This, of course, shows a complete lack of understanding as to how the real world works. Frequently, if not usually, both sides in a conflict are self serving bastards. This is the case with Kerry as it pertains to his anti-war activities.

As for your idiotc "you deserve Bush comment" - Last time around, I held my nose and voted for Kerry. Never again. For now on I vote for someone, not against someone. Partisan idiots like you are the reason we are constantly presented with two horrible choices for president. Because not matter how shitty a candidate your party throws out there, you think he's the "Good Guy" to the other side's "Bad Guy" (and the other side thinks the same thing about their guy). Blind party loyalty, which you suffer, is the culprit. You and the people who still support Bush are two sides of the same coin whether you are astute enough to recognize it about yourself or not.

"For now on I vote for someone, not against someone."

Really? If McCain is elected, he's stated what kind of SC justices he'd nominate, meaning Scalia would be the intellectual thrust of the law for a generation.

I'd vote against thatin a heartbeat.

Nobody with half a mind actually thinks badly of the word when used in the context of one describing their time served in Vietnam.

It's just a word.

Suck it up and get over it.

"Danni - You suffer from the thinking disorder I like to call "Good Guy/Bad Guy Syndrome"."

But then you are simple minded. FAct is I've been a fan of John Kerry's since the days he testified before Congress. He would have been a very good president.

"Frequently, if not usually, both sides in a conflict are self serving bastards. This is the case with Kerry as it pertains to his anti-war activities."

His anti-war activities were not self-serving when he testified. Far from it. Get a clue.

Sully -- Seems like I agree with your post almost 100%. Moral of the story, behave with honor in all your actions. Serving in Vietnam was the honorable thing to do, even if his initial motives were to jumpstart his political ambitions. An his grandstanding against the war, while in line with the conventional wisdom of populist politics of the day, was perhaps a bit over the top (but so was everything hapening at the time, and for a stiff guy like Kerry, a little ganja might have thrown him over the top, too).

Still Brent Bozell and Cheney were never honorable and their shenanigans defamed a lot of decent people of honor, who according to Cheney, probably had LESS "important things to do". Right! (Cheney s*cks!)

"He would have been a very good president."

Well he's not a great senator and he ran a horrible campaign that consistently highlighted a lack of simple common sense so I'll have to disagree.

"His anti-war activities were not self-serving when he testified. Far from it. Get a clue."

I'm not the one taking the incredibly naive stance here. That Kerry is a calculating opportunist is obvious. Grow up a little and stop rooting for the DNC like its a friggin sports team.

Kerry put himself in for 5 medals, including 3 purple hearts one of which he received while horsing around and throwing a grenade in the jungle and getting a scratch on the blowback. Kerry was able to get out of Vietnam after 3 months because of those self awarded purple hearts while the rest of us had to serve 13 months. He was a coward! Then he went to Washington, trashed and lied about his fellow soldiers, mispronounced the name Ghenges Khan, and threw some fake medals over a fence. What an asshole! He is a disgrace to the swift boat veterans.

Please stop the wriiten liberal masturbation one minute and let me ask a question.

WHERE ALL YOU LIBERALS EDUCATED BY THE PRESENT LIBERALS TEACHING IN THE UNIVERSITIES. YOU KNOW THIS WAS THE GENERATION THAT BOMBED BUILDINGS (But war is terrible), threw rocks at police officers, threw shit on family people, and spit on service people coming back from Vietnam?
No wonder you liberals are so fuck up! What about that DANNI, HERM, PAMOBAMA NUTCASE, etc.

"Posted by oozieoswald"

Flick.

Townandcountry - Cheney is a horrible human being on his best day.

Danforth - There will always be a reason to rationalize voting for one of the transparent shills thrown at us by the major parties. They will keep screwing us as long as we keep taking the bait.

"There will always be a reason to rationalize voting for one of the transparent shills thrown at us by the major parties."

Yes, but one of those transparent shills is going to be setting the legal course of this nation for a generation or more, and I'd prefer it be my transparent shill.

Scalia's avoidance-of-law-in-lieu-of- fear-mongering opinion on Habeas Corpus was stomach-turning. The thought his self-aggrandizing take on the law would set precedent for decades is enough for me to vote against.

"That Kerry is a calculating opportunist is obvious."

Obvious how, he is a US Senator, already tried a run for the presidency...so what "opportunity" is he waiting for??

"Obvious how, he is a US Senator, already tried a run for the presidency...so what "opportunity" is he waiting for??"

Huh? I don't need to know his present plans to know that his past actions show him to be an opportunist.

"Huh? I don't need to know his present plans to know that his past actions show him to be an opportunist."

That's a pretty easy accusation to make against anyone in any position such as Senator but it doesn't make it true. When you don't have anything real with which to dry to denigrate someone "opportunist" is just a cheap shot.

(ah yes......its good to take the first DR post of the morning and HIT IT OUT OF THE PARK>.....)

Posted by bushlovertwo

Thew only thing you hit outta the park was your little pea sized brain.

"When you don't have anything real with which to dry to denigrate someone "opportunist" is just a cheap shot."

You didn't ask me why I think he's an opportunist. You asked me about his future actions, which I can't predict.

I've already named a couple of examples of his past opportunistic actions. He saw Vietnam as a way to enhance his resume for a political career and then when he realized that wasn't going to be popular he saw an opportunity to get some attention by bad mouthing other soldiers. Still later, he saw that being a veteran was once again an assett to his campaign and all the sudden his service during the war (and the accompanying re-enactments) are worthwhile something again. Why did he save his childish re-enactments? What do you call someone who throws fake medals away for the cameras? If he was simply living by convictions he would have actually thrown the medals away and he wouldn't have needed the cameras around when he did it.

Look, there are much worse people than Kerry running our government but don't try to tell me the guy isn't a phoney.

Badmouthing Kerry in the age of Bush reaches a new highs in absurdity, but then we see such achievements here daily. You deal with garbage in order of smell severity: Sully, is it not possible that Kerry went to war for patriotic reasons, saw what this (Vietnam) war really did and was man enough to turn against it? That reasonable scenario surely satisfies ME. herm

That's a pretty easy accusation to make against anyone in any position such as Senator but it doesn't make it true. When you don't have anything real with which to dry to denigrate someone "opportunist" is just a cheap shot.

Posted by danni at 2008-06-30 02:13 PM

And this coming from someone who, makes accusations on a daily basis without any proof.

I probably provide as much or more proof with my accusations as anyone else posting here. You just made one about me....without proof.

"Badmouthing Kerry in the age of Bush reaches a new highs in absurdity, but then we see such achievements here daily."

There are any number of threads here where you can bash Bush and be on topic. I've posted on some of them. Given your sensibilities, perhaps you should stick to those. I personally believe that our problems go way beyond Bush. Bush was able to win because of a broken system that presented two horrendous candidates as the only viable choices last time around. As long as people keep believing that one candidate is always "good" based strictly on blind party loyalty, we're going to be presented with the same shitty choices. I think its important to expose the shortcomings of both parties because people need to realize that they both work hand in hand to screw us before we'll get around to fixing things. I don't give a shit if you don't like it.

"Sully, is it not possible that Kerry went to war for patriotic reasons, saw what this (Vietnam) war really did and was man enough to turn against it? That reasonable scenario surely satisfies ME. herm"

But you forgot the part where thirty years later he's once again proud of his service during the war and he backs off all the shit he said about other soldiers. Or the part where thiry years later he explains that he didn't really throw his medals away, he just faked it for the cameras. But yeah, other than the facts that his opinion always seems to match his perception of the current political climate and that at least one of these actions that you find sincere were admittedly faked, the story is entirely believable.

I have a bridge for sale, by the way. Interested?

Oh Danni, dont get me looking through back posts. I bet I have called you on this at least 20 times. Yet, you never seem to provide any evidence. Your usuals are claiming Bush lied to get us into a war. You are probably right but you have yet to prove it. Need I go on?

It's a tad late for these Swiftanistas to come to Jesus, but hey...better late than never. Perhaps the reason it took so long is that Scaife stopped sending checks.

Hey "danni" you ignorant slut...

The SF 180 is actually a request for "Report of Separation" and all such documents are in the sole custody of the National Personnel Records Center, in St. Louis - not the branch in which the veteran served (in this case the Navy). And the character of Kerry's "separation" (discharge) from the Navy is obviously the document(s) that are hot.

The SF 180 directs the National Personnel Records Center to release records, at the request of the documented veteran, and send them to whomever he designates (usually himself) - period. What is the Navy doing in the middle of this? The Navy must have been the designated recipient, on this specific SF 180 (not the Boston Globe, as Kranish explicitly admits). As a Federal entity, the Navy is then subject to Privacy Laws and any release by them had to be additionally waived by Kerry - or not. He could then easily not waive specific documents for release that he found damaging. What the Boston Globe got was the remainder of whatever the Navy received from NPRC, less what Kerry wished to withhold.

WHERE ALL YOU LIBERALS EDUCATED BY THE PRESENT LIBERALS TEACHING IN THE UNIVERSITIES. YOU KNOW THIS WAS THE GENERATION THAT BOMBED BUILDINGS (But war is terrible), threw rocks at police officers, threw shit on family people, and spit on service people coming back from Vietnam?
No wonder you liberals are so fuck up! What about that DANNI, HERM, PAMOBAMA NUTCASE, etc.

Posted by ozzieoswald at 2008-06-30 01:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Did you mean 'Were' or 'Where'...because the latter makes no sense, but.....it is the OzHole.

As for your 'spitting on the troops' line, there was ONE incident of this happening that was ever reported.

You seem to fear education...don't, it can be your friend.

Also, you seem to be pointing out the radicals. How about the righty terrorists who blow up abortion clinics?

How about the righty, Timothy McVeigh blowing up a federal building and killing all those women and children?

How about the religous extremist David Koresh who had his people gun down federal agents?

You're probably reading this and saying "hey, not fair, those are the fringe elements" and you're right. Those are the fringe elements, just like you referred to in your post above.

KBM you destroy your own argument, especially the criticism of the "Boston Globe" with your final line....attributing the article to "WorldNet Daily."

You are even dumber than I thought.

Most righties would have been smart enough to delete that from the post because everything that went before becomes laughable once that is noticed.

YOU KNOW THIS WAS THE GENERATION THAT BOMBED BUILDINGS (But war is terrible), threw rocks at police officers, threw shit on family people, and spit on service people coming back from Vietnam?

Are you talking about the conservative Tim McVeigh who killed the women and children in OKC? No, didn't think so. Another conservative coward at his best.

OO,

What a selective memory you have. I remember peaceful demonstrations, interrupted by Police and National Guard turning on those speaking their minds as if they were shooting Turkeys in a cage. The same way Chickenhawk Cheney hunts birds, released where and when he wants them.

I remember the highway bribes Agnew demanded in the basement of the White House while denigrating the victims of murder by the Kent State National Guard. I remember the FBI tailing Martin Luther King 24/7, yet nowhere to be found when he was gunned down. Its not just outsiders that were shot down either, JFK and Bobby were just to much like Jesus in their thinking to be tolerated. I remember the FBI blowing the shit out of buildings and people who dare to be different, like was repeated in Waco.

Except at Altamont, it is the authorities who have consistently initiated violence in this country. Its easy for them because they can always claim their victims were resisting arrest or inciting a riot and get a conviction on their lying words alone. They are free to kill and do so from time to time to send a message.

Yet, apparently in your mind, sticks and stones are worse than teargas, bullets and incendiary devices.

"... a broken system that presented two horrendous candidates as the only viable choices."

Sully, you and your ilk voiced this bullshit when it was Gore vs. Bush, Kerry vs. Bush and are voicing it now. The fact is that when the rigid rightie tank is empty - drained, devoid even of fumes - you turn to "neither one is any damned good." Sully, Gore or Kerry would have made fine president, and O'Bama will make a great one. herm

SEABISCUIT: You are obviously not to bright. McVeigh more then likely was a liberal. Plus I'm talking about the thousands of dirt bag professional students which almost destroyed this county. Now there in the university teaching bone heads like you to become liberals.

COMMONSENSE: Same old liberal play book response. If you libs can't handle the truth lets criticize spelling and grammar. Why don't you ASSHOLES grow up and get a life.

'You are obviously not to bright. McVeigh more then likely was a liberal."

IN WHICH the Oz-hole makes the most startling assertion *I* have seen on the DR, and goes on to bad-mouth (I think) peace protests of the '60s. Then, having misspelled "too" and "than," he goes on to smear people who CAN spell. Goddam, and I STILL believe in free speech. herm

COMMONSENSE: Same old liberal play book response. If you libs can't handle the truth lets criticize spelling and grammar. Why don't you ASSHOLES grow up and get a life.

Posted by ozzieoswald at 2008-06-30 07:28 PM | Reply | Flag

Speaking of play books, why don't you address the rest of the post?

Is it because it blows your argument out of the water?

So typical.

Has the Swift Boater's allegations been disproven?

Has the Swift Boater's allegations been disproven?

Posted by SomeGuy2 at 2008-06-30 10:00 PM | Reply

Yes. All of them. Too bad you didn't know that yourself.

Yes the Swift Boat alligations have been proven lies. Of course an ingrown infected pubic hair on a gnats ass trool such as Yourself SG2 wouldn't know nor care about the truth anyways.

Larry Mohr

Swiftboat Veterans: their lies and the real truth about John KerrySwiftboat Veterans for Untruths and quotes taken out of context financed by prominent republicans and the biggest GOP supporters and not really non-partisan ...

McVeigh more then likely was a liberal. Plus I'm talking about the thousands of dirt bag professional students which almost destroyed this county. Now there in the university teaching bone heads like you to become liberals.

Posted by ozzieoswald at 2008-06-30 07:17 PM | Reply

I doubt there are many liberals in the Michigan Militia. I guess you never wondered why most university people have liberal thoughts. Liberal thinking comes with education. Education teaches--among other things--how to think in clear and logical sequence. People without education seem to think that those with educations are stupid. Go figure. People like yourself, with no education, think you know more than people with education. How about that. Its like magic to you isn't it. You seem to think that people are born with all knowledge, and the more books people read--the more they study--the dumber they get. You are mistaken. The more you read--the more you know.

This country was founded by liberals and liberal thought. Freedom is a liberal concept--not a conservative concept. Slavery is a conservative concept--not a liberal concept.

Has the Swift Boater's allegations been disproven?

Posted by SomeGuy2 at 2008-06-30 10:00 PM | Reply

Yes. All of them. Too bad you didn't know that yourself.

Posted by Buffalo_Bob

Which allegations were disproven?

"Which allegations were disproven?

Posted by SomeGuy2"

Funny. Which allegations were proven?

Which allegations were disproven?

Posted by SomeGuy2 at 2008-06-30 10:42 PM |

Do you understand the concept of "ALL".

Do you understand the concept of "ALL".

Posted by Buffalo_Bob

They weren't disproven. Sorry. www.huffingtonpost.com

Posted by SomeGuy2 at 2008-06-30 10:52 PM | Reply

Your link has nothing to do with Swift Boaters for Lies allegations. Do you even know who the Swift Boaters were and what they said? It doesn't seem like it.

They weren't disproven. Sorry. www.huffingtonpost.com

Posted by SomeGuy2 at 2008-06-30 10:52 PM | Reply

Your link has nothing to do with Swift Boaters for Lies allegations. Do you even know who the Swift Boaters were and what they said? It doesn't seem like it.

Posted by Buffalo_Bob

Then how do you explain this quote from that article??? "Could Kerry prove false a single one of the many charges the 527 group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth made in their advertising against him in the 2004 election? That question has been left on the table since last November."

Start at that point and read on.

"Could Kerry prove false a single one of the many charges the 527 group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth made in their advertising against him in the 2004 election?"

Kerry doesn't have to prove anything. The burden of proof is on those making the charges.

Kerry doesn't have to prove anything. The burden of proof is on those making the charges.

Posted by nullifidian

They're not in a court of law!!! Kerry made his allegations, Swift Boaters made their's, and NONE have been disproven as far as I can tell.

I suspect there is some truth to both sides.

Could Kerry prove false a single one of the many charges the 527 group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth made in their advertising against him in the 2004 election? That question has been left on the table since last November.

SomeGuy2

Ted Koppel went to Vietnam. He located several of the Vietcong who were there that day.

" "Nightline" traveled to Vietnam and found a number of witnesses who have never been heard from before, and who have no particular ax to grind for or against Kerry. Only one of them, in fact, even knew who Kerry is. The witnesses, all Vietnamese, are still living in the same villages where the fighting took place more than 35 years ago. A "Nightline" producer visited them and recorded their accounts of that day. The accounts were subsequently translated by a team of ABC News translators."

Yes the Swift Boat alligations have been proven lies. Of course an ingrown infected pubic hair on a gnats ass trool such as Yourself SG2 wouldn't know nor care about the truth anyways.

Larry Mohr

Posted by LarryMohr

well they have to be proven lies because I read it here first.....yeah.....uh huh......

BLT go and click on My link and read up if You want the truth. If You want to continue the lies then You too can be as useful as a limp dick in Heidi Fleice's soon to be stud ranch.

Larry Mohr

"They're not in a court of law!!! Kerry made his allegations, Swift Boaters made their's, and NONE have been disproven as far as I can tell."

Bullshit. They made accusations against Kerry and they have to prove it, whether it's in a court of law or on the Drudge Retort. The burden of proof is on the person making an assertion, e.g., John Kerry did X when he was in Y.

Could Kerry prove false a single one of the many charges the 527 group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth made in their advertising against him in the 2004 election? That question has been left on the table since last November."

Start at that point and read on.

Posted by SomeGuy2 at 2008-06-30 11:11 PM | Reply

Why should I start at that point and move on? That point is erroneous. The Swiftboaters have been proven liars on every charge they made. There is no doubt--there is no question. They talked to the Vietnamese who were on the other side that day. They knew the guy Kerry killed with the RPG--they substantiate his version. The man Kerry pulled from the water substantiated Kerrys version. The medals awarded to his accusers on that day substantiated Kerrys version. The Navy reviewed the action, and substantiated Kerrys version.

Your link does nothing to dispel Kerrys verson. Your link does not deal with the Swiftboater lies at all.

"They're not in a court of law!!! Kerry made his allegations, Swift Boaters made their's, and NONE have been disproven as far as I can tell."

Bullshit. They made accusations against Kerry and they have to prove it, whether it's in a court of law or on the Drudge Retort. The burden of proof is on the person making an assertion, e.g., John Kerry did X when he was in Y.

Posted by nullifidian

Okay, I'll agree to disagree.

But you still haven't refuted my point: their allegations have NOT been disproven.

But you still haven't refuted my point: their allegations have NOT been disproven.

Posted by SomeGuy2 at 2008-06-30 11:29 PM | Reply

Swiftboat Veterans: their lies and the real truth about John KerrySwiftboat Veterans for Untruths and quotes taken out of context financed by prominent republicans and the biggest GOP supporters and not really non-partisan ...

Your link does nothing to dispel Kerrys verson. Your link does not deal with the Swiftboater lies at all.

Posted by Buffalo_Bob

I'm not sure you're reading the right article then if you don't see what it has to do with Swift Boaters.

If they HAVE been disproven then why hasn't anyone SUED Pickens for his reward??? Hint: because they haven't disproven SBVFT's allegations.

"Why hasn't anyome sued Pickens for his reward...."

I'm not a lawyer, but I could advance several reasons. One being Pickens could and likely would spend a million dollars just give any applicant holy hell.

"Their allegations have not been disproven...."

I'd have thought the one about swiftboats not going into Cambodia is an obvious example.

Hell Larry Thurlow's own record supports Kerry's and refutes Larry's statements during His time with the SBVFT. Funny dat Be. I believe it had something about Kerry saying He came under small arms fire and Larry Thurlow saying that was a lie but His own record backs it up what Kerry said.

Larry Mohr

"But you still haven't refuted my point: their allegations have NOT been disproven.

Posted by SomeGuy2"

Sorry, you don't get to shift the burden of proof to the accused. If you have some allegations of the Swift Liars you wish to repeat, go ahead and make them.

Okay SomeGuy

I'll make an allegation:

(Uh, let's see)

George W Bush gave comfort to the enemy during the Vietnam War. OK, prove it false.

BTW, Kerry's incident on the Swiftboat happened during his second tour - for which he volunteered.

Turns out a man can volunteer to go into a war zone if he has the balls. Unlike a certain current president who shall remain nameless, but who had a $1,000,000 training nonetheless.

I'd have thought the one about swiftboats not going into Cambodia is an obvious example.

Posted by Zed at 2008-06-30 11:38 PM | Reply

I think Kerrys statement about Christams Eve in Cambodia is entirely plausible. I was in Nam working in intelligence, and knew we were bombing in Cambodia three months before Congress knew about it. Kerry could very easily have been part of that program.

I agree, Bob.

George W Bush gave comfort to the enemy during the Vietnam War. OK, prove it false.

BTW, Kerry's incident on the Swiftboat happened during his second tour - for which he volunteered.

Turns out a man can volunteer to go into a war zone if he has the balls. Unlike a certain current president who shall remain nameless, but who had a $1,000,000 training nonetheless.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Ding, ding, ding. It's nearly impossible to disprove their allegations!!! To say that ALL their claims have been disproven is not true (I'm not saying *you* said that though).

It's nearly impossible to disprove their allegations!!! To say that ALL their claims have been disproven is not true (I'm not saying *you* said that though).

Posted by SomeGuy2 at 2008-07-01 12:09 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

You intellectually dishonest fuck. They have been disproven some by their own Military record but You don't give a shit about the facts nor the truth.

Larry

Our illustrious Presididn't made sure he was only marginally qualified to fly an aircraft that was no longer being used by the United States Air Force in country in Vietnam. The F-102 Delta Dagger was an obsolete bomber chaser that was replaced by the F-4 Phantom, and the remaining air worthy F-102 airframes were unloading on the National Guard and foreign air forces in 1969.

There's been some considerable speculating that one reason ol' Brave Sir George failed to show up at Ellis is that he was told he'd have to re-qualify his flight status to fly the F-4, and wiser heads knew his inability to pass the physical would have washed him out. So Dad pulled a few strings and some base commanders succumbed to a bad case of selective memory. They never thought Daddy's little coke head would pull a Veruca Salt.

SomeGuy

You missed the dozen or more of his shipmates who stood on the stage with him at the 2004 DNC convention.

Men who were actually there and verified every detail, supporting the reasons for the second Purple Heart Kerry received in Vietnam.

SomeGuy

You missed the dozen or more of his shipmates who stood on the stage with him at the 2004 DNC convention.

Men who were actually there and verified every detail, supporting the reasons for the second Purple Heart Kerry received in Vietnam.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY

AU, you missed the Swift Boaters who attacked his claims before and after the 2004 DNC convention.

If you have evidence to disprove their attacks, then why don't you sue Pickens for his reward?

"why don't you sue Pickens for his reward?"

Because that creep already welched on that bet.

SomeGuy

The guys onstage with Kerry were there with him the day it happened.

The guys who made the Swiftboat claims were not.

In fact, the chief guy making the claims Kerry did not do what he was awarded the medal for was Richard Nixon's point man against the antiwar crowd and had a bone to pick with Kerry going way back almost 40 years.

Who do you belive? Guys who were there or guys who weren't?

Doesn't seem like a hard choice to me.

If I was hit in a car accident I'd sure as hell want the people who witnessed the accident to testify, and not some idiots who were 5 miles away.

Still not disproven. But you're free to accept either or whoever's version.

Still not disproven. But you're free to accept either or whoever's version.

Posted by SomeGuy2 at 2008-07-01 12:50 AM | Reply

"Still not disproven. But you're free to accept either or whoever's version."

Nothing has to be disproven. If you have allegations, make them and prove them. If you can't do that, you should just STFU.

In this case, it's only an allegation.

One debunked by men who were ON the boat with Kerry.

The men making the allegations were nowhere in the area and have no idea what they're talking about.

They want their good name back... Fucking comical.

These same assholes said nothing of George W. Bushes Cowardess when he joined the Texas National Guard (7) days before his last Vietnam Draft deferrment ended leap-frogging some 16,000 other Texans who applied for Guard service well before him (most never made it in), but he got in the day he applied with his daddies help assuring he would never have to put his silver spoon ass on a front line at a time when 300-400 soldiers per week were being killed in Vioetnam.
Or Dick Cheney... (5) draft deferrments and an open claim.."I did not serve in the miltary or go to Vietnam because and I quote...." I had more important things to do". Cheney's last deferrment reasoning was.. "I had to watch my Mom".

So these jackasses beat up someone who did serve and met his obligation to a complete bullshit war but they defend cowards.

As far as I'm concerned these swift boat asshole losers need to get their asses back in their shot and beer bars and go fuck themselves.

Someguy2 still thinks kerry hasn't released his medical records. He lives in his own world and reality need not apply. Talking reality to him makes as much sense as talking reality to a cat. They both think what they want and nothing you say will change a thing.

Where were these guys when Kerry was getting swift boated? For the next decade swift boat will be a bad term, its all about getting your guy elected at any cost.

"Sully, you and your ilk voiced this bullshit when it was Gore vs. Bush, Kerry vs. Bush and are voicing it now. The fact is that when the rigid rightie tank is empty - drained, devoid even of fumes - you turn to "neither one is any damned good." Sully, Gore or Kerry would have made fine president, and O'Bama will make a great one. herm"

Well, Herm, the only thing wrong with your little rant is that I never voted for Bush, I'm not voting for McCain and I'm not a Republican. The fact is the Gore and Kerry were horrible candidates who ran awful campaigns and lost to an idiot - in Kerry's case he lost even after Bush spent four years proving what an idiot he is.

You and your ilk - blind party hacks - are the ones that ensure a constant stream of shitty leaders. Congrats.

I doubt there are many liberals in the Michigan Militia. I guess you never wondered why most university people have liberal thoughts. Liberal thinking comes with education. Education teaches--among other things--how to think in clear and logical sequence. People without education seem to think that those with educations are stupid. Go figure. People like yourself, with no education, think you know more than people with education. How about that. Its like magic to you isn't it. You seem to think that people are born with all knowledge, and the more books people read--the more they study--the dumber they get. You are mistaken. The more you read--the more you know.

This country was founded by liberals and liberal thought. Freedom is a liberal concept--not a conservative concept. Slavery is a conservative concept--not a liberal concept.

Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2008-06-30 10:25 PM | Reply | Flag

Well said.

The SBVT are an honorable and honest group that told the TRUTH about JF Kerry.

FACT!

Because he, like the rest of the SwiftBoat Liars are cowardly scum bags shaming the rest of the Swift Boat veterans.

Posted by danni

Danni, Danni, Danni.

Sour grapes, Danni.

The Swift Boat Veterans are heros not only in the V.N. war, but in the last election.

They showed us a side of Kerry that every voter needed to see.

If you don't like it, then say you don't like it or just take it. But you can't sit there and lie to yourself that it's not true. It's just..., well, dumb. :)

James Dean is Jimmymac the banned poster. FACT!

And I believe JimmyMac was just the most recent iteration of someone who has been banned multiple times before.

That vet can rest easily that the Swift Boat name is a good and heroic name. History shows that.

FACT!

The Swift Boat Veterans are heros not only in the V.N. war, but in the last election.

They showed us a side of Kerry that every voter needed to see.

Posted by Eddie at 2008-07-01 03:17 PM

You are so correct Eddie. Thank you so much Swift Boat Vets for exposing a complete fucking idiot like John Kerry and giving us one of the greatest Presidents this country has ever had. If you don't believe this is the truth please take a few minutes and watch the following video if you need any convincing.

How many Nam vets does it take to screw in a light bulb???

You don't know MAN!!!!! YOU weren't THERE!!!!!!

th please take a few minutes and watch the following video if you need any convincing.

www.youtube.com

Posted by USATrueandBlue7

I'm sorry you are so naive. You think Kerry would have done any better? It would have been like Nixon taking over from Johnson.

I think G.W. is a bumbling idiot too! In fact, he's an embarrassment. However, Kerry would not been able to end the war.

In fact, here's a strawman for ya...

If Kerry were President now?
Gas would most certainly be $10/gal.
Israel would have bombed Iran and we'd be right in the middle of it
Russia and China would now be support Iran, Iraq, Al Qaeda. Europe would sit idly by waiting to pick up the pieces. You think we are bad guys now?

So, don't be naive. Kerry did not have what it takes to be President. He's probably as good as Clinton--good at taking orders from the neocons and being a good little boy.

Don't get me wrong. I don't support Bush, but Kerry would have lost control of the situation and we'd be in a major war. Not good.

These ASSHOLES, an they are ASSHOLES no matter how many Medal of Honor Winners was in the group, they Swift Boated Senator Kerry, much to thier disgrace. The American people much to thier disgrace allowed these Partisian Right Wing Republicians to degrade a true American Hero, John Kerry, for the likes of George W. Bush. This was not about what was best for America, this was about what was best for thier Party. If this what 59,000 American Men an Women died in Viet Nam for for the Republician Party, what a fucking disgraceful group of BASTARDS.

Now those that operated those Swift Boats want their good name back, well its to fucking late, where the hell were theses Assholes when the rest of the group was infecting our Political process, they allowed the Right Wing Partisians to get away without a fight from those that could have made a differance.

So from now until Hell freezes over "Swift Boating" will stand for the Dirty Politics that this group was allowed to get away with in the election of 2004. When a true American Hero was dragged through the mud by a group of Viet Nam Veterans, who sold out there Country for the election of George W. Bush, hell of legacy guys!!!

James Dean/Jimmy Mac is a dumb son of a bitch.

FACT!

When Jimmy Mac posts here it makes Baby Jesus cry.

FACT!

Be Well.

"baby" jesus. Of course.

"We'd be in a major war...."

Unlike now.

Don't know how long we have left with this thread, but ...

1. Sully drones on about how every presidential candidate ever is/was appalling. I'd like to know who Sully finds GOOD. Not just a lesser evil, not just humming faint praise, but GOOD. Go, Sully.

2. Some swift-board apologists still think Kerry should have disproved the smears. Folks, the very cornerstone of our jurisprudence is innocent until proven guilty. Kerry needed to prove nothing in '04, and needs to prove nothing now. This was a more egrigious theft than Florida in 2000. herm