James "Yer doing it wrong" Dobson is on the warpath once again.

Despite feeling that McCain isn't quite crazy enuff in the right sorta fundy way Jimmy D will still on his behalf tommorow night dutifully launch a half-assed effort to try to criticise BHO fer misreading the Bible and the Constitution.

Spud thinks Dumbya is the one who Dobson needs to be delivering that particular piece of advice to.

Be Well.

Dobson is crazy, a lun and when you have too much time on your hands you find luns like him in politics.

Hmm. I'd like to hear that entire speech.

It takes big, giant balls to stand up and say those things as a politician...even if the people who disagree with you aren't the people you look to get votes from.

Dobson had a lot more gravitas, in the eyes of the average Christian, before he decided to regularly weigh in on politics.

dobson would do better to deal with his own son, ryan's, distortion of the bible first.

he cannot have it both ways.

as much as i cannot stand what obama stands for, people need to tend to their own house before accusing others of a similar deed.

So we are gonna teach christianity in the schools now?

What is truly ironic here is that Dobson is accsuing Obama of wanting to impose his interpretation of the Bible on other people when, in fact, it is Dobson who wants to do that.

Nanc,

Your comment reminds me of the Bible verse about taking the speck out of your own eye before you attempt to take the log out of someone else's. It also reminds me of the verse: Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

"So we are gonna teach christianity in the schools now?"

On the Iraqi Refugee thread Danni and Larry are screeching that as a Christian Nation we are obliged to take in refugees.

But for Danni that's just a talking point

As for Dobson, he's a marginal windbag only important in his own mind.

Much like Algore, Sharpton, Kim Gandy, etc.

Any clown that shows up on a talking head show claiming to be the voice of millions is usually full of shit; since Algore claims to be the voice of Gaia, he is the Supreme Shit

screw dobson too! I second the motion

"On the Iraqi Refugee thread Danni and Larry are screeching that as a Christian Nation we are obliged to take in refugees."

That is bull shit. I am saying (in the other thread) that as the nation that destroyed the freedom of religion which existed in pre-invasion Iraq we have an obligation to accept refugees who cannot live peacefully in Iraq because of their religion. I only mention America's Christians to point out their hypocrisy and Nno-Christlike approach to politics.
Either Vern is just too stupid to figure that out in the other thread or he's just a dishonest apologist for whatever the administration does.

"Either Vern is just too stupid to figure that out in the other thread or he's just a dishonest apologist for whatever the administration does."

Danni, Danni, Danni...

...you mustn't discount the possibility it's both.

Just more right-wing x-tian hate speech.

Nothing new here.

Religious fundaMENTALism in every religion is a danger to free thinking people of the world.

Obviously Islam is not the only one to watch carefully.

"Whatever we once were, we are no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers."

"And even if we did have only Christians in our midst, if we expelled every non-Christian from the United States of America, whose Christianity would we teach in the schools?" Obama asked. "Would we go with James Dobson's, or Al Sharpton's? Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is ok and that eating shellfish is abomination? How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount - a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application? So before we get carried away, let's read our bibles. Folks haven't been reading their bibles."

~Barack Obama

FANTASTIC SPEECH! (....or at least this quote)

This Dobson shit-stain can try to attack it all he wants, but anyone whose half-sane can see that this was a GREAT speech!

"... both sides block their ears, close their eyes and yell at the other. It doesn't have to be that way."

It is a-pox-on-both-your-houses when that suits Ooey. The rest of the time he burbles right-wing lunacies, peppered with scriptural nonsense out of context, as the mood strikes him. herm

as much as i cannot stand what obama stands for, people need to tend to their own house before accusing others of a similar deed.

Posted by nanc at 2008-06-24 11:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

???

Are these the 'end-times'? Could the Rapture be upon us?

I ask because I find myself COMPLETELY agreeing with Nanc.

On the Iraqi Refugee thread Danni and Larry are screeching that as a Christian Nation we are obliged to take in refugees.

Posted by vernon at 2008-06-24 12:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

It would seem only right that since we destroyed their way of life that maybe, just maybe, we should be the ones to take them in.

Trust me, I'd rather not have to take them in, but we did fuck up their country.

commonsense - think of it as the wheat being separated from the chaff.

I wonder who Dobson is going to vote for?

He's said "I cannot and I will not vote for John McCain"

BTW, if Dobson is going to stick his nose into politics, why can't we strip him of his Tax Free status?

"My post was dead on "

YEAH!

Except this part; "Dobson pulled no punches"

Should read; "Dobson Spared No Sneaky Underhanded Low Blows in his effort to Beat Obama Over the Head with his Fake Plastic Jebuss Stick"

"Fruitcake" ?

Bwahahahaha!

How ironic is this!

Dobson's running scared. He should be. Obama's gonna neutralize his coalition. I'm gonna enjoy this.

Dobson wouldn't know the bible if it hit him in the face.

Dobson will fall upon the same trash heap of history as Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaggert, Ted Haggard, Paul and Jan Crouch, Jim Jones, Jerry Falwell, James Kennedy, and all the rest of those pathetic a-holes who set themselves up as spokemen for the Almighty.

"Dobson will fall upon the same trash heap of history as Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaggert, Ted Haggard, Paul and Jan Crouch, Jim Jones, Jerry Falwell, James Kennedy, and all the rest of those pathetic a-holes who set themselves up as spokemen for the Almighty."

YEAH!

However Dobson IS the "Trash Heap"!

It's hateful to denigrate someone else's interpretation of the bible. Also, Dobson's is COMPLETELY WRONG!

Sincerely,
DR Fruitcakes

"Christians eat their own in too many cases."

I think they call it Holy Communion.

FF Danni!

Obama should have included Dobson Al Sharpton or Jeremiah Wright as his examples.

Obama has said in the past that his beliefs say he can get to Heaven with "good works".

Gal may remember the conversation--I said he needed to pick up his Bible and start reading it again--because that is not in the Bible (NT). That is a Muslim belief. It might be a Jewish tenet as well?

That is not what is in the NT Bible.

Obama now says that people should be following or could be following Leviticus--

Well, when Jesus came here--the teachings of Lev were no longer needed--as a Christian. They can do those things--but it is not part of Jesus and His teachings. But Obama brings it up like he is in Sunday school--wrong time and wrong place and wrong meaning.

Dobson has his beliefs--and for millions of others who have the same beliefs--it makes them cringe when someone like Obama talks and doesn't know what he is saying--who is counseling this guy?

I don't understand Dobson's reservations about McCain--conservative credits--McCain is right on pro-life and selecting judges.

But on this kind of challenge--maybe Dobson will wake up his listeners to what Obama says and they will vote with their hearts and heads against this guy.

When most of the sayings attributed to Jesus in the New Testament are about feeding the hungry, about the dangers of wealth, and about justice, it seems strange to me that Dobson and the other self-appointed spokesmen for the Almighty can ignore the words of Jesus, and substitute His truth with their version of the "TRUTH" - that God is only concerned with homosexuality, abortion, and gay marriage. I've noticed that God's likes and dislikes closely match those of whoever is telling us what God "wants".

"Obama now says that people should be following or could be following Leviticus--"

No Murphy, he did not. He used that as an example of differing points of view, not as a personal opinion.

"I said he needed to pick up his Bible and start reading it again--because that is not in the Bible (NT). That is a Muslim belief. It might be a Jewish tenet as well?"

It is also an early Christian belief. It was one of the key points of difference between the Roman church led by Paul, and the Jerusalem church, led by James. Paul advocated for salvation purely through faith, while James believed that salvation also derived through works.

Eventually the Pauline view prevailed, which in turn governed much of the decision making on which writings would ultimately be included in the modern Bible.

"Well, when Jesus came here--the teachings of Lev were no longer needed-"

Why, then, do we discount all of the Levitical prohibitions and admonitions, except for the one about homosexuality?

"I only mention America's Christians to point out their hypocrisy and Nno-Christlike approach to politics."

Funny, Danni, for you to bring up hypocricy.

Which shall it be then? Christians are obliged to use political power to compel the government to act? -- in this case with refugees.....

Or are Christians supposed to keep their faith out of politics?

Can you make up your mind, or are you just going to try and weasel out again?

"Obama now says that people should be following or could be following Leviticus--"

Murphy, wake up! He was giving that as an example of what we shouldn't be doing.

Can't say I've read his stuff or listen to his program. I have some friends who really enjoy the guy and I'm of (mostly) like mind with them when it comes to faith and how it plays out in our life.

Posted by OohRah at 2008-06-24 02:19 PM

Perhaps you need to pay attention for this man portend s to speak for you and the rest of Christianity.

His Focus on the Family organization is very influential and has been the cause of many unnecessary suicides in this country and has destroyed many families. His may not speak for millions of people but he speaks with the force of millions of dollars and he needs to be held accountable for those words of hate.

If you think I am exaggerating check out this documentary...

oops close italics!

Well, when Jesus came here--the teachings of Lev were no longer needed--as a Christian. They can do those things--but it is not part of Jesus and His teachings. But Obama brings it up like he is in Sunday school--wrong time and wrong place and wrong meaning.

Dobson has his beliefs--and for millions of others who have the same beliefs--it makes them cringe when someone like Obama talks and doesn't know what he is saying--who is counseling this guy?

Posted by MURPHY at 2008-06-24 03:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

Here we have religion and Christianity.... ........cafeteria style.

Or are Christians supposed to keep their faith out of politics?

YEAH!

First and Foremost, today's "Christians" should employ some basic manners when opening their mouths!
Apparently they are under the impression that calling themselves "Christian" excuses them of having to speak to people with some tact and grace!

Dobson is one of the most vile and hateful masochistic misogynist to be allowed access to a soapbox in quite some time!

Why is there tendency among the fundamentalist Christian pastors and evangelicals to pick and choose those passages that further their own belief systems or agendas?

In Luke, Jesus says, "if you want to be a follower of mine you must give up all your possessions" it's funny, isn't it, how we don't see people like Dobson, Hagee, Parsley and Robertson or the Evangelicals preaching and living the way that the literal Word of God tells us to and that supposedly is eternally binding upon us.

Of course not.

Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

"Why, then, do we discount all of the Levitical prohibitions and admonitions, except for the one about homosexuality?"

Posted by SanAntonioRogue

A common theme in the epistles is that sexual immorality is still on the list of things not to do. Do you think that the authors intended homosexuality to be included in the definition of immoral sex? If so, one wouldn't have to look to Leviticus to justify belief that homosexuality is a sin from a biblical POV.

Even so, that doesn't erase the hypocrisy in acting like homosexuality is somehow a bigger sin than all the others, especially when you know that most if not all Christians probably masturbate.

"Which shall it be then? Christians are obliged to use political power to compel the government to act? -- in this case with refugees.....

Or are Christians supposed to keep their faith out of politics?"

I don't care what Christians finally choose to do but America should be compassionate towards those who face an almost certain death if they return to Iraq. What you Christians do in that situation is between you and your God.

LoD,
I don't disagree with you but it seems there is a reason homosexuality is mentioned rarely by Christ Himself.
Namely, it's much more important that we love one another and try to live in peace.

"homosexuality is mentioned rarely by Christ Himself"

Rarely???

More like not at all. As in never.

I heard dobson and pastor ted were real tight

Nah, there is one passage but, not being the Biblical scholar, I don't recall which. It was more about adultery than homosexuality as I recall.

"I heard dobson and pastor ted were real tight

Posted by Georgeisadrunk"

Meh, not so much.

- Jimmy Swaggart

"LoD,
I don't disagree with you but it seems there is a reason homosexuality is mentioned rarely by Christ Himself.
Namely, it's much more important that we love one another and try to live in peace."

Posted by evilpolock

It may not be specifically mentioned at all in the whole N.T. I say "may" because in typical English translations, homosexuality is mentioned, but there is some dispute as to whether that was a correct translation from the original text. (learned that from a poster here)

Yet my fellow Christians tend to act as if that is the worst sin one can commit, something that may not even be in the N.T. That this particular "possible" sin is worthy of condemnation for the sinner, while all the others get to be forgiven through grace.

It's crap. The two most important things Jesus said to do are to love God and love others.

I will admit that I only recently opened my mind to this.

"I don't recall which. It was more about adultery than homosexuality as I recall."

Pretty much Jesus' only direct admonition concerning marriage was that divorce was unacceptable.

I'm waiting for the evangelicals to introduce their Constitutional Amendment to prohibit divorce, but it doesn't seem to be moving along too fast.

Wonder why?

"Are there any public figure religious types you don't dislike?"

YEAH!

I deeply respected John Paul and Mother T and I have over the years come to like Billy Graham.

I also enjoy reading/listening too Jim Wallis

Is it troll time already?

plz don't feed the trolls...

except for the one about homosexuality?"

Posted by SanAntonioRogue

homosexuality is never actually mentioned in the bible.

Dobson is not even a pastor.

He is a psychologist.

He talks about family and character and morals.

Why should we have to bow to Obama's morals?

Why did he put up Dobson --who is not a preacher--on this speech?

It appears that Obama went off the teleprompter and talked crazy again.

Dobson is allowed under the 1st Amendment to talk about his beliefs.

Just like any of you are given that right.

Obama believes in killing the baby even if it survived an abortion.

Obama believes in partial birth abortion--stick scissors into the brain of a baby coming down the birth canal and twist it around and then vacuum out the brains before taking the baby out of the woman.

Obama thinks it ok for gays to marry.

Obama thinks it's ok for girls to get an abortion without their parents knowledge. They shouldn't be punished by having to give birth. He thinks having a baby is being a victim.

What's such a gaffe is that Sharpton isn't a preacher either. He doesn't have a church. He shakes down companies for money claiming discrimination. He has a radio show that 4 people listen to. Sharpton never attended divinity school or even a degree.

Someone in his church made him a "reverend" when he was 9 years old. So go figure..

Murph,

"Obama believes in partial birth abortion..."

You're either grossly misinformed or you are lying...which is it? If neither, provide the link where Obama says partial birth abortion is A-OK. Cuz if you "believe in" something, you definitely think it's AT LEAST A-OK.

Really though --

Obama shouldn't talk about religion at all.

It just reminds everyone about his stinking pastor and those videos and Pflegar and his video.

You're either grossly misinformed or you are lying...

EP- the two are not mutually exclusive...especially for our Murphy...he has an agenda.

"Obama believes in killing the baby even if it survived an abortion."

*sigh*

Link, please?

C'mon, Murph...link please.

EP:

Q: What us your view on the decision on partial-birth abortion and your reaction to most of the public agreeing with the court's holding?
A: I think that most Americans recognize that this is a profoundly difficult issue for the women and families who make these decisions. They don't make them casually. And I trust women to make these decisions in conjunction with their doctors and their families and their clergy. And I think that's where most Americans are. Now, when you describe a specific procedure that accounts for less than 1% of the abortions that take place, then naturally, people get concerned, and I think legitimately so. But the broader issue here is: Do women have the right to make these profoundly difficult decisions? And I trust them to do it. There is a broader issue: Can we move past some of the debates around which we disagree and can we start talking about the things we do agree on? Reducing teen pregnancy; making it less likely for women to find themselves in these circumstances.

Source: 2007 South Carolina Democratic primary debate, on MSNBC Apr 26, 2007

In 1997, Obama voted against SB 230, which would have turned doctors into felons by banning so-called partial-birth abortion, & against a 2000 bill banning state funding. Although these bills included an exception to save the life of the mother, they didn't include anything about abortions necessary to protect the health of the mother. The legislation defined a fetus as a person, & could have criminalized virtually all abortion.

Source: The Improbable Quest, by John K. Wilson, p.147-148 Oct 30, 2007

He is for it by exclusion - or not voting against it.

true christian, as opposed to fake christian? you fraud you will go to hell

EP--Obama voted for the Infant Survival Act (?) while in the Illinois Senate.

Catchy name since it means that the doctor can kill the baby even when it survives the abortion.

Obama has also said outright he is in agreement with partial birth abortion.

Why do you think he gets an A+ rating from NARAL?

Elcid,
Well, that's nice but when you say someone is FOR something or BELIEVES IN something, not voting against it is not the same. Nice try though.
He explains his vote as not having provisions to protect the life of the mother, though I'm sure you could care less about that.
Show me something where he says anything that even kinda sounds like "I am for/agree with/couldn't give a rats about partial birth abortion..."
C'mon, I've broadened your spectrum...fire away.

the problem murphy is

these bills
are either yes or no

what about in cases when a mother might die
etc

ask for a revisal in the way the bill is written to protect the mother as well

then you'll have something to argue about.

life isn't so black and white
that you can allow or not allow blanketly

ElCid,

"The legislation defined a fetus as a person..."

Then I agree with Obama's vote; I don't want to go down that road either. That could lead to the criminal investigation of every miscarriage (especially if you had a nutzoid AG like Kansas' Phill Kline). Any and every menstrual period could become suspect.

Not to mention the whoppers told in the HOV lane:
But officer, I'm pregnant
Sorry, maam, but this lane requires three or more.
Did I tell you it's twins?

Proverbs 6:16-19 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain
[A Public Domain Bible] [KJV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

16These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

it is up to the reader to decide what wicked imaginations means.

you may also read genesis 19 - where sodom and gomorrah were destroyed for their wickedness of men wishing to "know" the angels of the Lord.

It's not the mother that is the issue guys--

The baby can survive an abortion and Obama thinks it's ok to put down the baby.

Did you see the link with Michelle begging people for $150.00 to support her husband and his beliefs?

Here is another

"It's not the mother that is the issue guys--"

Of course not, it's where you said:

"The baby can survive an abortion and Obama thinks it's ok to put down the baby."

Where does Obama state he's for "killing the baby even if it survive(s) an abortion"?

And please, no 'It's a blog-it's a debate' dodge. If you can't prove he said that, it's either a lie, or out-and-out feces tossing.

Nanc,
If we are to read and agree totally with Genesis 19, we would also have to buy into the "eye for an eye..." part, right? No? Jesus said differently you say? You are right.
If someone does you wrong, you do them wrong? I mean, God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah due in large part to debaucherous behavior, right? So, either there is or isn't forgiveness.
Murph,
Again, you take what he says, interprets from your far right leanings, and try to post it as fact. He never said he supports abortion of any kind.
By the way, as has been posted numerous times here, I am, personally, against abortion.

Dobson is not even a pastor.

He is a psychologist.

He talks about family and character and morals.

Why should we have to bow to Obama's morals?

Who the fuck is Dobson then and why should we even consider bowing to HIS morals? His "morals" are directly responsible for destroying families and for innocent children committing suicide. He needs to be held accountable for the deaths and misery he has caused.

Dobson was old-Falwell-school, but now he's changed.
He's now...old-Falwell-school several years later.

God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah due in large part to debaucherous behavior, right?

actually no... this is a common misinterpretation and misunderstanding of the bible (as usual) by the fundies to further THEIR homophobic agenda. It had nothing to do with DEBAUCHERY RAWWWK!

It had to do with BAD behavior. The Sodomites where selfish and had rescinded a law that REQUIRED that they share.

Simple as that.

In olden days when a stranger came to your door you were required by LAW to welcome them in and feed them. But in Sodom and Gomorrah they were greedy and had begun to refuse to share this way and had rescinded the old laws. When the strangers (angels) came to Lots house and he let them in he was breaking the LOCAL LAWS and so the local constables came to break down his door. They stood outside the doors and taunted the "angels" that they may "know" them. In those days (oh and in these it seems) it is part of war to debase those you hate with rape and sodomy and so they wanted to humiliate them.

So you see it really had nothing to do with homosexuality.

And so Obama is right.

We need to really read and understand the Bible in its true context.

Donner--for one I am a woman.

Maybe you have a link for your statement that Dobson is responsible for "destroying families and for innocent children committing suicide".

Obama went off the teleprompter and talked stupid again.

This is so rich that he has the nerve to tell the populace about his Christian beliefs when the guy went to that dispicable church for 20 years!

Then he could not disavow the church or his pastor. Then he threw the pastor under the bus.

As for Obama and abortion--

Donner--Obama voted against the bill that would require the doctor to perform life saving on a baby that survived an abortion.

Obama said NO in the Illinois Senate--let the baby die--throw the baby under the bus.

If you want to put nuance to his vote go right ahead. But the guy gets 100% AOK from NARAL.

Draw your own conclusions..

Oh yeah!

Obama

The secret anti America Flag hating Muslim who is an angry Black MAN with a Dick Twice as large as mine who has a secret plan to enslave the white race is also a

dun da da daaaaa!

A BABY KILLER!

I get it Murphy...

I recommend Prozac bro... it has been a great help these last 8 years.

Donner--for one I am a woman.

Maybe you have a link for your statement that Dobson is responsible for "destroying families and for innocent children committing suicide".

Donner--for one I am a woman.

Maybe you have a link for your statement

here is a youtube clip from the movie

If you have a family with children you must see this movie with your children before it is too late.

Please.

Don't let this happen to you.

I see most if not all of the other sections of the movie are on youtube also...obviously I recommend it highly...

Looks like somebody finally pulled their head out of their ass. I'm sure Bonnerboy had trouble in school with innies and outies....

Donner--

You are entitled to your beliefs.

And contrary to your statement--Dobson is not destroying families and for innocent children committing suicide.

The movie is a liberal version on how they want everyone to view homosexuality. They misinterpret the Bible to their version of how we should all live, act and be.

Yes, the Bible and Jesus says to love one another--I totally agree.

Hate the sin --Love the sinner--

Obama thinks it ok for gays to marry.

Cos it is.

Why should society welcome gay marriage?

Fer the same reason it welcomes traditional marriage.

Stability.

Be Well.

They misinterpret the Bible to their version of how we should all live, act and be.

I believe that is exactly the problem. YOU are misinterpreting the bible and YOU are allowing it to be misinterpreted for you.

Which is of course your right.

But, do not try to misinterpret it for the rest of us and please do not pretend to know how the the rest of us should live our lives.

I didn't expect you to actually view the film that would be to much to ask but there is real good part in there where the Archbishop Tutu "Misinterprets" the Bible for you too.

It is a goodly "misinterpretation" though.

You might like it. Too bad you won't watch it..Too librul I guess.

I just heard the Obama speech. This man is NOT ready to be President!

"Obama thinks it ok for gays to marry."

You are just struggling with that honesty thing today, Murphy.

Obama does NOT favor gay marriage. He has said many times, and as recently as 2 days ago that he believes marriage is between a man and a woman. He DOES favor civil unions and believes same-sex couples are entitled to the same legal rights and responsibilities as heterosexual couples.

Also, according to the prophet Ezekial, the primary sin of Sodom was:

"Truly, this was the sin of your sister Sodom: pride, a full measure of food, and the comforts of wealth in peace, were seen in her and her daughters, and she gave no help to the poor or to those in need."

-EZ 16:49

"Truly, this was the sin of your sister Sodom: pride, a full measure of food, and the comforts of wealth in peace, were seen in her and her daughters, and she gave no help to the poor or to those in need."

Sounds like a city full of Republicans.

Be Well.

So Civil Unions are Gay Marriage in a different word play game.

So Donner--we agree to disagree.

And we did it with minimal name calling-- if any!

That's progress.

"So Civil Unions are Gay Marriage in a different word play game."

No, they are not. A civil union is a legal contract between 2 parties granting them certain rights, privileges, and responsibilities with and to one another.

Marriage is a religious concept that a couple may or may not choose to sanctify their union if they so desire.

For example, in most European countries, including Britain, there is a 2 step process. First, everybody must go through the civil ceremony. That is the legal relationship recognized by the government. Then they may choose an optional religious ceremony, if desired.

The Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell, a Methodist pastor from Texas and longtime supporter of President Bush who has endorsed Obama, said Tuesday he belongs to a group of religious leaders who, working independently of Obama's campaign, launched a Web site to counter Dobson at http://
www.jamesdobsondoesntspeakform
e.com. The site highlights statements from Obama and Dobson and asks visitors to compare them.

And James Dobson is a paragon of virtue because he leeches millions of dollars off millions of poor, destitute old ladies who think, wrongly, that thier contribution to Dobson will somehow buy thier way into heaven or at least grant them a prayer, EPIC FAIL, Dobson is nothing more than the guy (I love this comparison) the "Brotherly Love" guy in the Big Valley, nothing more than that, he is a snake oil salesman, he knows it, and most right minded people know it, unfortunately the people who believe him do not know it.

They misinterpret the Bible to their version of how we should all live, act and be.

Yes, the Bible and Jesus says to love one another--I totally agree.

Hate the sin --Love the sinner--

Posted by MURPHY at 2008-06-24 07:25 PM

The bible does not say homosexuality is a sin. The misinterpretation is yours Murphy. You see the bible as teaching hate and discrmination. You are incorrect---but you have millions upon millions of like minded bigots on your side. They prove they don't know much about the bible either.

He DOES favor civil unions and believes same-sex couples are entitled to the same legal rights and responsibilities as heterosexual couples.

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2008-06-24 08:08 PM

Civil unions are not the same thing as marriage---so Obama does not believe same-sex couples are entitled to the same legal rights and responsibilities as heterosexual couples. If civil unions are the same as marriage--then call it marriage.

, Dobson is nothing more than the guy (I love this comparison) the "Brotherly Love" guy in the Big Valley, nothing more than that, he is a snake oil salesman, he knows it, and most right minded people know it, unfortunately the people who believe him do not know it.

Posted by Litlebritdifrnt

And Obama isn't? His running for President is sucking the cash out of poor people who can't afford it in hopes that he can change things for them and make them rich, living off the Government (like before Reagan). It can't happen!

At least Dobson is making life better or trying to preserve a good Country in which to raise a family.

Also Dobson has no power to change laws. Obama does!

Who's more dangerous?

Also Dobson has no power to change laws. Obama does!

Who's more dangerous?

Posted by Eddie at 2008-06-24 09:26 PM

You.

Distort the Bible??? Is that what all Christians do? It seems like all the Christians I know always view their views as the only facet to salvation.

Why do you think their are so many different sects of religions. Everyone of them thinks they are right.

You.

Posted by Buffalo_Bob

:D

I'm glad you fear me Buffy. :D

If civil unions are the same as marriage--then call it marriage.

Posted by Buffalo_Bob

I'd say if civil unions are the same as marriage, then call it a civil union, and leave marriage to the churches.

"I'd say if civil unions are the same as marriage, then call it a civil union, and leave marriage to the churches."

Hear, Hear! Call 'em all civil unions. Religious "marriage" optional, just like Europe.

I'd say if civil unions are the same as marriage, then call it a civil union, and leave marriage to the churches.

I agree with that as well.

I'd say if civil unions are the same as marriage, then call it a civil union, and leave marriage to the churches.

I agree with that as well.

Funny, I remember being online for my marriage license and my fiance and I were the only ones with smiles on our faces... all the other couples were annoyed, bickering, being nasty to one another... there's nothing "civil" about the average marriage.

but that's nyc for you... even the hippies have bad attitudes.

I'd say if civil unions are the same as marriage, then call it a civil union, and leave marriage to the churches.

Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2008-06-24 09:49 PM | Reply

Civil unions are not the same as marriages. Religion has nothing to do with marriages. Churches don't make marriage legal--the government makes marriages legal. The government gives churches the right to marry people. Marriage is not a religious ceremony. No religious person is necessary to make a marriage legal, and no religious person is necessary to end a marriage.

Leave religion out of marriage.

That's fine. Call them whatever you want as long as it confers the same legal and societal rights as "marriage" by the state.

That includes tax laws, property laws, etc.

After posting on this site for months, I have yet to have heard an acceptable reason just how homosexual marriage will destroy heterosexual marriage.

"Leave religion out of marriage."

I kind of think that's what we've been saying. "Marriage" is a civil contract between 2 people. Use whatever term you want to, but we've been talking about the legal aspect of the contract. Religion optional.

Marriage is not a religious ceremony.

marriage is a religious term that was hijacked by the govt long ago.

I don't give a crap what we call it but I would vote to call the governments recognition of it as a civil union and leave the term marriage to religions.

Brit--you missed the posts above--Dobson is not a preacher--he is a psychologist who runs Focus on the Family. They take in donations --but they pay taxes as well.

BB--the Bible says many things --mostly about love and tolerance.

But it also talks about some things being right and some things being wrong.

Many folks do not like what the Bible says because it doesn't fit in with their own system of morality or beliefs.

Well--Too Bad.

The new website by Obama--
Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2008-06-24 09:13 PM

You know I hope Obama makes a really really BIG deal about this--it is a loser.

All it will do is gin up the evangelicals because Obama strayed from the teleprompter and taked crazy shit he knows nothing about.

Take for instance his church of 20 years--no wonder the guy has trouble with the interpretation of the Bible--LOL--he was listening to the hateful crazy bastard Wright--before he threw him under the bus.

What is ironic is that everytime this stuff comes up--people will have images of Wright and Pflegar in their heads "GD AmeriKKKa"!!!!!!!!!

Great going!! Keep up the good work!

Obama approves this message!

The problem with the term 'civil union' is that they seldom are. *G*

I have yet to have heard an acceptable reason just how homosexual marriage will destroy heterosexual marriage.

I agree with you on that, however I guess there is a fear that formally accepting homosexual marriage will somehow screw up society. I laugh at that suggestion.....we have already done that anyway. However, it is a fear and that is all politicians need to gather votes and support from certain groups.

Goatman-
Similar problem with 'marriage'.

"The new website by Obama--
Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2008-06-24 09:13 PM"

Its not Obama's website, and I didn't say it was. That honesty thing just keeps tripping you up, Murphy.

By the way, even Fox news has retracted and apologized for spreading the Malik Obama lie. You seem to be the only one left who hasn't repudiated your part in propagating it.

"Many folks do not like what the Bible says because it doesn't fit in with their own system of morality or beliefs."

You remind me very much of the parable of the blind men who encounter the elephant. You know, the one where one blind man finds the tail and is convinced an elephant must be just like a rope. And another one finds a leg and is convinced an elephant must be just like a tree trunk, and so on.

Each is totally convinced that their limited version of an elephant must be exactly what an elephant is. None are willing to question their beliefs, or investigate further. Each condemns the other for being wrong.

sar - wtf does THAT parable come from?

or would i have been better off asking if it's true that there are none so blind as those who will not see?

"sar - wtf does THAT parable come from?"

Versions of it are found in numerous cultures - Buddhist, Hindu, Jainism.

"or would i have been better off asking if it's true that there are none so blind as those who will not see?"

Or as the parable would state it...

O how they cling and wrangle, some who claim
For preacher and monk the honored name!
For, quarreling, each to his view they cling.
Such folk see only one side of a thing.

Dobson is a self serving Cunt.

Dobson is -- and always has been -- an idiot.

Like most Christians... Kill 'em all and let God sort it out.

I guess there is a fear that formally accepting homosexual marriage will somehow screw up society.

I agree. I know there is plenty of fears out there promoted by people seeking to gain power by exploiting stupid peoples fears.

I can tell you that divorce is the number 1 threat to marriage on the planet. Outlaw divorce and you "protect" marriage far more than you can ever hope to through bigotted actions against homoesexuals.

Oh... DOBSON... ok, well, so what else is new? The guy is one of the biggest assholes on Earth and can only help anyone he opposes.

I'd read it as DOBBS at first and thought, "heh???"

Obama's speech was right on the money, btw!

Excerpt from article by Frank Shaeffer on why Obama should thank Dobson for his attack:

Nevertheless Dobson has -- for eight years -- been George W. Bush's personal shill. In return Dobson has had ego-stoking "access" to the White House, or rather to the lackeys in the White House laughing at him but charged with stroking Dobson and the other pompous asses masquerading as religious leaders.

But the new generation of evangelicals is sick of being labeled as backward rednecks because of their association with fossils like Dobson. There are many evangelicals like Cizik too who are not all about homophobia, nationalism, war-without-end and American exceptionalism or the Republican Party. Like Cizik they believe that the America has a responsibility to do something about global warming, poverty, AIDS, human trafficking and other issues. They see through Dobson and the other so-called pro-life leaders, who have actually done nothing to reduce abortion. In fact Dobson has increased abortions because of his "abstinence only" crusade.

As a result of his power grabs and bullying of other evangelicals, not to mention his telling people how to vote and pointing them to the failed W, Dobson & Co. have zero credibility with a growing number of otherwise conservative evangelicals who happen--this year--to be looking favorably at Senator Obama's holistic Christian-based world view. Unlike Dobson they like Obama's theology just fine.

BB--the Bible says many things --mostly about love and tolerance.

But it also talks about some things being right and some things being wrong.

Many folks do not like what the Bible says because it doesn't fit in with their own system of morality or beliefs.

Well--Too Bad.

Posted by MURPHY at 2008-06-24 10:28 PM | Reply

You really should pay attention to your posts. The bible does not say homosexuality is a sin--that doesn't fit your morality or beliefs?

Well--Too Bad.

Interesting article --

Message for the copyright police: The above is an excerpt.

Gee, I wish I had thought to excerpt that article at 8:22 this morning, Doc.

LOL!

But I'm glad you posted some more of it.

SA -

Oops. I'm lefthanded. I read the top of the post and then work my way up from the bottom of the page. Somehow I missed it. This green tea doesn't have anywhere near the resurrective powers of espresso. Aw, the hell with it, I'm gonna blame it on Bush.

The Bible -- terrific book with some wonderful designs for decent living. A book. Written by imperfect humans -- albeit often inspired by a spiritual connectedness. All the good stuff, the stuff that doesn't demonize or claim superiority over any other, can also be found in, pretty much, any other text of any other religion. All of those texts, also, books. By humans. Amazing that we as a species have allowed the negative, anti-free will, anti-human passages of these books -- being raised Catholic I'm most familiar with the Bible -- to keep the species apart. Disgusting. And stupid. Thank God (yes, I believe there is a creative force that connects us to each other, and the earth, I call it God for lack of a better word before having coffee)
So, yeah, thank God that more and more people are moving away from the destructive arrogance of "this is my book, my book is truth, read and become my book or my book will smote you". Fundamentalists of all stripes suck horse dick.

Message for the copyright police: The above is an excerpt.

Posted by Doc_Sarvis

I don't think the huffington post is going to be calling their lawyers over that one, but that is one pretty big excerpt. I'm sure that rcade will appreciate your opinion the next time he has to pay his lawyers to deal with something like this.

But as long as you don't have to foot the bill, who cares, right?

'Dobson responds, per the AP, that "I think he's deliberately distorting the traditional understanding of the Bible to fit his own worldview, his own confused theology" and charges that Obama "is dragging Biblical understanding through the gutter."'

Isn't this what every politician who invokes religion is trying to do?

Look at the comment that provoked Obama's speach. How come Dobson doesn't care that someone is assigning a political position to Jesus?

All these guys do this stuff. Of course it is nonsense but it seems to play well with the hicks. Dobson is hypocrite with his selective outrage.

N/P, Doc. I think the article is a good read. And although I think there are a few folks here that will take umbrage at it, I believe that there are many evangelicals today that, as Schaeffer put it, are "sick of being labeled as backward rednecks because of their association with fossils like Dobson."

If ever I had doubts about O'Bama - you know, too wimpily centrist, too ready to open his Big Tent to those who'd wipe ME off the face of the globe - Murphy and Nancy persuade me that there's no doubt: Barack For President!

As a moderate librul, only slightly to the left of YOU, I keep wondering how women like Murphy and Nancy - I'm sure there are others - become rigid righties. Do they think the Bush-McBush have ANYthing to offer their gender? Do they equate all reproductive rights with that one sad procedure, done not in one per cent or even one hundredth of one percent of the time? Do two men or two women wedding threaten THEIR marriages? Do they see an eternal Mideast war as a solution to their fuel problems? herm

Here is the money quote from Barack Obama: "No matter how religious they may or may not be, people are tired of seeing faith used as a tool of attack. They don't want faith used to belittle or to divide. They're tired of hearing folks deliver more screed than sermon. Because in the end, that's not how they think about faith in their own lives." Hypocrisy at it's finest.

HERMIE, if the life of the mother is not in danger, 1 in 1billion is too many for that procedure. Of course in your case, your moms doctor made the wrong decision.

BTW, still waiting on that answer - please do not claim it was the total nonsensical BS about AIDS = 200 years of slavery.

You are correct about BO - not even close to being centrist, most liberal senator in the country.

"Many folks do not like what the Bible says because it doesn't fit in with their own system of morality or beliefs."

sure, like those folks that claim the 10 commandnents are basic to our laws, but haven't read them and are not aware of all the death penalties they require. the bible should be "X" rated!

"Mike Klonsky, an Obama supporter and yet another former member of the terrorist group the Weatherman, received a $175,000 grant from the William Ayers/Barack Obama-led Annenberg Challenge to run the Small Schools Workshop."

Another KBM theory goes KaBooM...

Obama and The Annenberg Challenge

There's lots of interesting stuff going around about Obama's Annenberg Stint. But the Obama-Annnenberg connection seems like a reach.

First and foremost is the notion that Obama "led" the Chicago Annenberg Challenge in any meaningful way. "As a private citizen, he led Chicago's portion of the Annenberg Challenge school reform initiative financed by the late philanthropist Walter H. Annenberg--an experience that shaped Mr. Obama's perspective on the critical importance of principals and teachers."

If he did, it's news to me and a lot of folks in Chicago. I wrote a long report about the CAC in 2001 (From Frontline Leader to Rearguard Action PDF) that failed to unearth Obama's name as anyone of any influence -- and never came across his name in an education context in the following six years during which I wrote a book about school reform in Chicago. Obama gets barely a mention in the Chicago Catalyst magazine, which goes back further and deeper than I do.

-Alexander Russo for the NEA's Education Week

"Mike Klonsky, an Obama supporter and yet another former member of the terrorist group the Weatherman[sic]."

Klonsky was never a member of the Weathermen. His group, the October League, opposed what they called the "adventurist, ultra-left" tactics of the Weathermen.

El Cid, still unable to read (or apologize) tuns up. The eternal bad penny.

Cidney-baby, Doonesbury currently deals with folks dealing with the stupidity and the lies (interchangeable) on O'Bama. One is your whopper that he's the most librul senator. He's not in the top ten. AND YOU KNOW IT. The other has to do with his faith. He's a Congregational, not a Muslim.

El C hedges on the abortion procedure. "If the mother's life is not in danger..." Cidney, ninth month terminations are NEVAH done unless the mother's life is in grave danger. herm

HERMIE, I read just fine thank you. I again call BS on your supposed answer - equating AIDS to 200yrs of slavery - hyperbole right?

By Brian Friel, Richard E. Cohen and Kirk Victor, National Journal
National Journal Group Inc.
Thursday, Jan. 31, 2008

Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., was the most liberal senator in 2007, according to National Journal's 27th annual vote ratings. The insurgent presidential candidate shifted further to the left last year in the run-up to the primaries, after ranking as the 16th- and 10th-most-liberal during his first two years in the Senate.

You were saying HERMIE?

I never hedge on abortion by the way. Partial birth abortions occur long before the ninth month ibecile - it can occur as early as 20 weeks.

Guided by ultrasound, the abortionist grabs the baby's leg with forceps.

The baby's leg is pulled out into the birth canal.

The abortionist delivers the baby's entire body, except for the head.

The abortionist jams scissors into the baby's skull. The scissors are then opened to enlarge the hole.

The scissors are removed and a suction catheter is inserted. The child's brains are sucked out, causing the skull to collapse. The dead baby is then removed.

Want to try to defend that? Anybody that performs/supports this procedure is an f-ing murderer.

What is the "National Journal," Cidney, something as authoritative as "Human Events" that doctors evaluations to fit the political needs of whatever preposterous smear it seeks to perpetrate at the moment? O'Bama is not in the same league with such genuine "bleeding hearts" as Ted Kennedy, Tom Harkin, Barbara Boxer, Russ Feingold and several others you and I could determine.

Then you set yourself up as an expert on pregnancy terminations, alleging that D&X-like procedures are done by the 20th week. I suppose that may be possible, if the "National Journal" says so, but not only have I never heard of it after many years involved, but why in the world would any reputable physician do that with suction and chemical methods so much simpler and safer? herm

HERMIE, every frickin MSM site out there will pop up a reference to the yearly National Journal report - what the hell are you bloviating about now. Doctors evaluations?

Did not get the murder procedures from the National Journal - you can outright google "partial birth abortion" for those fun facts -
and yes, they have been performed at 20 weeks, although waiting until later just makes the murder more heinous.

Keep drinking the Obamaide though, he may win but the country will lose.

Cidney, I have to go outside and argue with a brick in the planter on my front lawn. It responds more intelligently than you do. You are as illiterate in the evaluation of Librul Lawmakers as you are on the details of reproductive rights, neither of which has diddly to do with the reality that Obama, the Democrats, the American people and the world will all win big in November. herm

Reverend Wright preaches doctrine according to the Nation of Islam.
Jews and Christians are definitely NOT welcome in Obama's church.

Jews and Christians are definitely NOT welcome in Obama's church.

Posted by Burt at 2008-06-25 07:05 PM

hmmm are Catholics welcome in Hagees Church?

HERMIE, reproductive rights are something which your parents most certainly abused. Yes, please continue your diatribes of how illiterate I am if it helps you rationalize your ignorant position. As you continue to evade the topic of Reverand Wrong and his glorious understanding of race relations in the U.S.. As to arguing with a brick -it appears from your lame scripture that the brick would be more intelligent.

Cidney baby, if you come up with something - ANYthing! - that you think might shed light on this dialog, please don't hesitate to post. Meanwhile I presume that you, like your rigid rightie colleagues, are plumb outa facts. herm

Brit--you missed the posts above--Dobson is not a preacher--he is a psychologist who runs Focus on the Family. They take in donations --but they pay taxes as well.

Uh, no. FOtF is a non-profit under the rules of 501(c)3 organization. They are tax-exempt. I know this because Colorado Springs went on a path to attract non-polluting industries. They foolishly thought that groups like FOtF would be "clean" both from a pollution standpoint and the people they'd likely attract. Much to Colorado Springs horror, they get very little revenue from these "businesses" and the growth has cost the city dearly.

You can check their own form 990's here:

FOtF is a non-profit

~Yav.

And Dobson is a non-prophet.

"Focus on the Family"?

Yeah, right.

"Focus on the Funding" is more like it.

Dobson worships Mammon.

He's an evil fuckstick.

Be Well.

The baby's leg is pulled out into the birth canal.

The abortionist delivers the baby's entire body, except for the head.

The abortionist jams scissors into the baby's skull. The scissors are then opened to enlarge the hole.

The scissors are removed and a suction catheter is inserted. The child's brains are sucked out, causing the skull to collapse. The dead baby is then removed.

Want to try to defend that? Anybody that performs/supports this procedure is an f-ing murderer.

Posted by ELCIDCE90 at 2008-06-25 04:20 PM | Reply |

They do not use scissors. It is a hospital dumbass--they have specific tools. Also--most often when this procedure is used, the fetus is already dead. If the fetus is not dead, the operation is illegal unless the life of the mother is involved.

In addition, if they ban that procedure, the fetus will simply be dismembered in the womb, making the threat to the mothers life even more hazardous.

SCISSORS?? How about hedge clippers--the hole would be much wider.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You are a moron who believes whatever you are told. You are easily brainwashed.

You are a moron who believes whatever you are told.

Says the guy who believes whatever he is told by a youtube.com video. LOL

Bob you never heard of surgical scissors? You are the moron. By they way, I thought you did not believe there was such a thing as a fetus? You once asked me if I remembered being one. MORON - go back to your tinfoil and moonmen. Dismembered in the womb - sounds like it already happened to you.

HERMIE, you floundered during the dialogue due to a lack of facts not me. AIDS=200years of slavery. Your words not mine. Again, go back to the brick - it speaks at your level.

Cidney, you get the last word. Almost. There STILL is no baby. The earth STILL revolves around the sun. herm

Cidney, you get the last word. Almost. There STILL is no baby. The earth STILL revolves around the sun. herm

Cidney, you get the last word. Almost. There STILL is no baby. herm

Cidney, you get the last word. Almost. There STILL is no baby. The earth STILL revolves around the sun. herm

Hey HERMAIDS=200years of slaveryIE, get back on the ADD drugs it's affecting your ability to post.

There is a baby - starts at conception. Argue all you want -with the brick. Partial birth abortion is murder - again go argue with the brick.

200years of slavery=AIDS - tell the brick it is and always will be your slave so it will understand this statement.

"There is a baby - starts at conception."

AT WHICH POINT FURTHER dialog becomes - er - difficult. But my brick has a far better grasp of the facts than you do, Cidney, and probably a far more open mind. herm

In all honesty HERMIE, you are right. Dialog on that issue with anyone not agreeing with me is difficult - as to having an open mind - how open would you be to someone murdering a child? Raping your wife/daughter? Stealing your car - or any other crime. Open mindedness is a tool of the left that is used when the logic leaves their argument and they are left without ground to stand upon - but you always have your brick out front-or maybe in your head for that matter.

Cidney says "Open mindedness is a tool of the left"

Where do they get this stuff, does ignorance come so easy to people like this? What an idiotic statement, they have created a caricature that doesn't exist, really stupid.

Leaving Cidney to twist slowly in a gale emerging from his own anus, we come up with:

"Reverend Wright preaches doctrine according to the Nation of Islam.
Jews and Christians are definitely NOT welcome in Obama's church."

This bullshit must be answered each time it is voiced, as this week's Doonesbury points out. The Rev. Jeremiah Wright is a Congregational minister with ideas on the black experience based on his own life. As a Jewish-born Unitarian, I feel very comfortable and totally welcome each time I visit the local United Church of Christ. And President O'Bama has said a great deal more about his former minister than he needs to. herm

HERMIE, you have now gone from buffoon status to LIAR status. I never said that Rev. Wrong preaches doctrine according to the Nation of Islam - as you most certainly imply by your use of quotes. So you have now progressed from personal attacks to outright lying because:

"Cidney baby, AIDs may have been a bit of 400-years-of-slavery hyperbole, just as was the charge that the FBI introduced crack cocaine into the ghetto to eliminate the Black Panther 'menace.' Maybe not. There is some conspiracy buff in all of us. But Cidney, baby, if you STILL don't think that Jeremiah Wright understands the underlying principles of American race relations, YOU have not been reading the papers and there is no hope for you. herm"

Yeah his grasp on race relations is as good as your grasp of reality.

Keep living in your guilt free world HERM. It makes it easier to justify any behavior you want.