Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Sunday, June 22, 2008

As Sen. Barack Obama opens his campaign as the first African American on a major party presidential ticket, nearly half of all Americans say race relations in the country are in bad shape and three in 10 acknowledge feelings of racial prejudice, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

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I hate everyone equally.

Just enough for Obama to lose in a close race.

I'd guess another 2 or 3 in ten can't admit their race bias. That includes minorities, btw.

Hell, make that another 4 or 5.

"3 in 10 Americans Admit Race Bias"

That would make it 3 in 5 of Obama supporters. With 40% of Obama supporters being Black that would make it 100% of Caucasian Obama supporters admit race bias.

30% is that all??? Bullshit, it is much higher.

If 3 in 10 includes blacks, that makes blacks in proportion to population, more racist than whites.

Hey Ray, let's just hope no anglos vote for Obama, cause you KNOW he's going to institutionalize white slavery.

Sag

If Obama becomes president, he won't exempt blacks. If it's McCain, he won't exempt whites.

Frankly I find the future for this country horrifying.

Jerry(miah) Wright is but a small example of the main stream bigotry that exists amoung the A-M's in this country. What's amazing to me is the number of white idiots that will pull the lever for one of the most prominent members of that congregation. O-Hussein....One of Jerry's Boys.

AMERICA, IS A RACIST COUNTRY:

Martin Luther King
Malcom X
Huey Newton
Bobby Seale
Rev. Wright
KKK

For all the idiots that have question weather or not this a Racist Country, GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!!!!!

I agree, Ray. And I agree with you that, whoever is going to be the next prez, preps are being made for martial law. (Re: another of your posts.)

But being a natural optimist, and a squelched Ron Paul supporter, I have to believe Obama will be an improvement by a least a few degrees. Though I'm already emotionally prepared to be disappointed.

think merit.

i'm biased against those who have none yet expect perks because of it. one of the reasons i DON'T check the native american box on questionnaires or applications.

Well, hey, who'd believe you anyway? How many Native Americans are named Nancy?

You think GW got into Yale on "merit"? HAHAHAHAHA!

Nanc

I think it's cool you are part American Indian. I've always had an interest in them since I was a very young child. What tribe are you from? Apaches and Sioux are a couple of the ones I had done extensive reading on. I think I've read the biographies of almost every famous American Indian chieftain.

I agree with you that, whoever is going to be the next prez, preps are being made for martial law.

Time to get familiar with Directive 51.

www.whitehouse.gov
www.youtube.com

It may sound alarmist and paranoiac now, but I've seen other laws, directives and regulations instituted decades before they were put into effect.

What, you people here still believe in poll numbers?

oglala sioux, chris.

a sidenote - i believe seven of the ten people are lying.

and, did any of you know that five out of four people have problems with fractions?

I agree, Ray. And I agree with you that, whoever is going to be the next prez, preps are being made for martial law. (Re: another of your posts.)

But being a natural optimist, and a squelched Ron Paul supporter, I have to believe Obama will be an improvement by a least a few degrees. Though I'm already emotionally prepared to be disappointed.

Posted by sagmain

A President Obama would be many degrees better (except for those who have a KKK or/and neo-con mindset)... there could be minority riots if the McSame crowd makes a blatant steal of the election... but given the numbers that I expect McSame will be the loser... and for the KKK types that cannot bear that we should think about setting up a nice little enclave for them in a state that has a reputation of catering to white supremacy groups.

I love you all. Well, at least for at least another 45 seconds or so.

YO: I do support your belief that O will be better than Mc in supporting the highest ideals of the nation. There is strong evidence to support that position. But O is entering a world not of his making. A self-sustaining world built on years of power struggles within congress, lobbyists, media owners, corporations, all used to doing business their way. However much he may want to make this a country willing to sit down and listen to dissenting voices, O will have a million hurdles in his way, placed there by well established private interests hell-bent in preserving the status quo.

I mean, he didn't go to AIPAC in order to twist arms.

And I love you too, Christine.

Martin Luther King
Malcom X
Huey Newton
Bobby Seale
Rev. Wright
KKK

Posted by celisary at 2008-06-22 01:20 PM | Reply

Celery,

You're not just an idiot but a fucking dinosaur. King was assassinated 40 years ago. The same era as the Black Panthers and Malcolm X. Wright is a marginal voice leftover from that period.

The peak of the Klan was a century ago.

What the matter? Still miss those heady, exciting days? You won, now go find a life.

But O is entering a world not of his making.

That is the crux of the matter. They could destroy Obama like they destroyed Nixon. Reagan was a Goldwaterite. In office, he had the talent to navigate through the political environment without inflicting much damage on himself. To this day, I'm not sure if he believed his Goldwater roots or used it for public consumption.

That's the nature of teflon, Ray. Not only does nothing stick to it, but if you want to scratch it's surface to find what's underneath it, you're labeled a no-good dissenter.

i'm biased against those who have none yet expect perks because of it. one of the reasons i DON'T check the native american box on questionnaires or applications.

Posted by nanc at 2008-06-22 01:24 PM | Reply | Flag

You're right.

Those ungrateful Indians.....it's not like this was their land or something and we took it. They act like we rounded them up, put them on some shitty patches of land and pumped the place full of alcohol.

And for the blacks....it's not like we MADE them come here and then worked them literally to death only to decide that they could drink from the same water fountain as late as the mid 60's.

Oh....wait...is IS just like that!

Don't hold back Nanc....let your hate-flag fly high!

Amazing. A racist country, upset that the people that were held down due to that racism may have some residual anger. Ha! Stupid, stupid people. Only the arrogance of inbred entitlement, by way of skin color and class can account for it. I'm white. But I'm not guilty. I'm simply big enough to see beyond the accident of disorder that decided my skin color and place in this country, and take history into account. So, in the words of Horshack, g'ahead, g'head, knock down the best chance this country has for a new approach to a dying situation, yeah, g'head, g'head and elect another white and brain-locked-America- is-still-the-bad ass- head-in-the-sand-don't-got-no-
need-for-no-one-else-in-the-
world-republican bug bite. I'll laugh through the fucking, and you'll probably hold onto your malodorous belief system and stink-fist attitude as the shit-storm you've enabled rises over our heads, seeping into your
bunghole mouths. Fuck y'all and your idiocy.

The most biased of all are of couse LIBS who are absolutely obcessed with race. They insist on race based quatas for everything from college admissions to hiring, firing and promotions. And now we are not supposed to criticize him because he is half black and anyone who doesn't vote for him is racist. FUCK OBAMA AND FUCK YOU BUNCH OF DOUCHE BAG LIBS.

Poll: 3 in 10 Americans Admit Race Bias

Damn Right! Fuck NASCAR! Fuck the Poll!

Oh wait...in NASCAR that's pole. You'd think most NASCAR drivers would be embarrassed that part of their job is to get on top of a pole. Do you think that's why so many people have a race bias? Hmmmm ...

oglala sioux, chris.

Cool, Nanc. Crazy Horse was always one of my favorites. Really.

3 in 10?

That is about how many still think Dumbya is doing a good job.

Coincidence? I don't think so.

It is probably more than that. I think most everyone has some sort of racial prejudice. It doesn't have to be malevolent, though.

I, for example, would have no problem voting for a black man for president if I thought he was the best man for the job.

However, I will not sit next to a black person when I am on the helicopter going to work because in my required bi-annual water survival course, I see the majority of the black people fail to be able to get out of the submerged helicopter trainer without the divers having to get him out. I do not want a person who panics and cannot get out between me and the helicopter window during a crash.

So, yes, this is a race bias on my part. It is a valid bias. Does it make me a racist? I think not.

Coincidence? I don't think so.

It figures

Rcade...

Just curious...I started a thread based on the same story as this one over an hour before you did.

My title (as it was posted on Huffington Post) refers to the fact that 90% of whites are comfortable with the notion of a black President.

Why did you decide to not even report this in your thread? Isn't it far more important that 9 out of freaking 10 whites would be okay with a black President instead of a paltry 3 out of 10 admitting to holding racial bias?

Can't you see that if both statistics are valid, fully 2/3rds of those admitting bias would still be alright with a black President? Isn't this the more important dynamic to draw from this polling data instead of your negative slant?

Tonyroma -- though I like the way rcade runs this blog in that he does not ban or exclude dissenting opinions, he does undoubtedly go for the sensational when creating headlines. I've noticed that a lot

...he does undoubtedly go for the sensational when creating headlines.

And there's not a thing wrong with doing so except when the MINORITY point is given coverage over the one which is most indicative of the nation's mood. 3 out of 10 harbor bias? The number is way too low because it includes ALL Americans and each of us knows all races harbor animosity towards others at far greater percentages than just 30. But the story remains that 90% of whites are willing to judge a black Presidential candidate on his merits instead of their innate bias towards the race. That IS significant!

It took 40 years for this race bullshit to settle down. And now here we go again. This is getting as boring and monotonous as abortion. If this is a referendum on race, Obama is going to lose.

Celisary's gonna be on this like a Black on my bicycle...

Funny that a higher percentage of blacks admit to racial bias than whites. I thought it was hist a 'white' problem.

Crazy Horse was always one of my favorites. Really.

Posted by CalifChris

Only when Neil Young played with them...awesome!!

Funny that a higher percentage of blacks admit to racial bias than whites. I thought it was hist a 'white' problem.

So it surprises you that those who society openly relegated to second class citizenship may not be as open-minded toward those who once subjugated them? Get out much?

The difference between the two is that blacks are seldom in the position to personally deny whites anything, be it a job, the right to vote, membership in exclusive clubs, a place to live, or something as mundane as a taxicab ride. And we've not lynched white people for having the audacity of looking at black women, nor did we drag whites in chains from their ancestral homes to work in our cotton fields, while destroying their family units on purpose by degrading them even further and treating them like farm animals.

Other than that, I can't for the life of me figure out why blacks still begrudge whites for such obvious benign sleights of judgment....

Only when Neil Young played with them...awesome!!

I can't stand Neil Young. I always called his genre of music "whine rock". The good thing about him is that a novice guitar player can play all his songs because you only have to know three chords.

So it surprises you that those who society openly relegated to second class citizenship may not be as open-minded toward those who once subjugated them? Get out much?

It's not just blacks. Get over it.

Ray...

Get a life and stop following my comments like they're directed at you. CLUE: They're NOT!

Did I say I had a problem with any of the things I mentioned, or did I say they were prevalent today?

Why don't YOU forget your life experiences and ignore things which have impacted your life before telling others to "Get over it."

I have gotten over one very important thing: Thinking your opinion has merit or value. Its simply the bitter blatherings of a cantankerous fart, trying to be relevant when no one cares what you think because the bile you spew is too bitter for any rational discussion outside of your narrow, made-up mind.

Nanc

Like I mentioned I've read a number of biographies of various American Indian tribal leaders and tribal histories. Even been to a couple of Indian pow wows. I have a small book entitled "Cherokee Feast of Days" by Joyce Sequichie Hifler with a short daily Indian meditation written for each day and month of the year. She signs her book Di Ka No He Sgi-Di Go We Li SGi (She Who Writes Her Philosophy On Paper) which I presume is written in the Cherokee dialect.

This is an open forum Tony. Get used to it.

Demagogues like Sharpton have milking this subject for all the money they can make from it. Well blacks are not the only minorities getting the shaft as they've been led to believe.

I take your opinions on Obama as dreams from a racist zealot. You Messiah ain't going to save blacks as you imagine. He's backed by whites.

TONYRMA - either racism is bad -- PERIOD. Or is is not. Saying is okay for one group and not for an other (no matter hat the reason) is BULLSHIT! Either is is bad to exist for all or it is not bad at all.

"Get a life and stop following my comments like they're directed at you. CLUE: They're NOT!"

I know what you're talking about. Ray starts crying like a girlie boy every time I respond to one of his comments.

Three years of following me around is the mark of a wacko. You must live for it.

makes sense 30% of Americans are racists. Why not just call it what it is.

Like I mentioned I've read a number of biographies of various American Indian tribal leaders and tribal histories. Even been to a couple of Indian pow wows. I have a small book entitled "Cherokee Feast of Days" by Joyce Sequichie Hifler with a short daily Indian meditation written for each day and month of the year. She signs her book Di Ka No He Sgi-Di Go We Li SGi (She Who Writes Her Philosophy On Paper) which I presume is written in the Cherokee dialect.

Posted by CalifChris

My interest, too, when I lived out west in Az, Nv, Idaho, California, Montana & Yellowstone Park (just for a summer) a few years back & I still dabble in a book on some aspect at times. I don't suppose going to their Mystic Lake Casino counts for much these days, though...

Your interests in particular were?

I have many books on their culture & bio's, though, Don Juan in "Separate Reality" peyote was what got me going into my then new found interest back then ~ like "Crazy Horse" in particular:>)

"Three years of following me around is the mark of a wacko. You must live for it."

This isn't personal, Ray. It's just business.

I try to avoid you, but I can't shake you. This has gone on too long. Even when the topic is not about government or economics, you come out of nowhere with asinine comments. You have a serious obsession problem with me. I've lost all patience.

What is going to be most interesting is to see how Obama does with white southern voters.

Keep it up boys....
The makeup sex should be great.....

"You have a serious obsession problem with me. I've lost all patience.

Posted by Ray at 2008-06-22 09:48 PM | Reply | Flag: Acute Paranoia

Really, Ray, you need help. I probably respond to less than 5% of your posts.

Get over yourself. Nobody cares about your whacky posts. You're just a crazy old coot shouting at the crowd.
static1.firedoglake.com

Bani

Montana is beautiful country isn't it? You have to actually go there to see for yourself what they mean when they call Montana "Big Sky" country.

I probably respond to less than 5% of your posts.

You even count them too? I've never seen anything like this.

Nobody cares about your whacky posts.

I've been praying you wouldn't either.

...shouting at the crowd.

I thought your cartoon link said "shouting at a cloud"?
Or did you mean "shouting at the crowd standing under a cloud"?
Or did you mean....

Okay, I'm outta this nuthouse while I still have my sanity. (grin)

I've never been, Chris. With the price of gas these days, it may be awhile before I make it there, though I'd like to, before I pass on to the happy hunting ground. With my luck, that'll be somewhere in New Jersey.

oh yes. Living in Yellowstone was like living in a painting as well. Many, many fond memories there to last a lifetime.

I loved folling the Chief Joseph/Nez Pierce trail of lore outside of Missoula as a college student & then later discovering Pima clan in Arizona as well as the Hopis.

My Cherokee contacts has been limited only one fellow who offered to do a blood brother ceremony with a good friend of mine & I...we both declined:>)

Sagmain

I've never been, Chris. With the price of gas these days, it may be awhile before I make it there, though I'd like to, before I pass on to the happy hunting ground. With my luck, that'll be somewhere in New Jersey.

Maybe you'll get to see Montana one of these days.
And if you have to stay in New Jersey you're not doing too bad. They don't call New Jersey the "Garden State" for nothing. Beautiful state in many places, lots of greenery, lakes and rivers when you get out of the cities. My family was all from NJ and both parents were born there - Trenton, Newark, Dover, some relatives live now in Woodbridge and Edison.

Come to northeast Ohio and you will see race bias on both sides. It is sad on both sides. Racism sucks.

TONYRMA - either racism is bad -- PERIOD. Or is is not. Saying is okay for one group and not for an other (no matter hat the reason) is BULLSHIT! Either is is bad to exist for all or it is not bad at all.

The topic isn't racism, its racial bias. Big difference that you seem to ignore. Did I say bias was "okay"? Of course I didn't, I merely explained why many would harbor feelings that inhibit neutrality and the fact that racism at its most insidious limits opportunities merely because a person won't give you a chance. This isn't as much an issue with the majority as it is with minorities for obvious reasons.

The day white America has to answer to black America for its own economic survival is the day your point becomes relevant. Yes, racism is bad in all its forms, but this topic is more about prejudice than racism. The fact that 90% of white people are comfortable with an accomplished black President is cause for celebration, not dragging up divisive topics irrelevant to the issue at hand. Blacks have voted for whites all along because that's often been their only choice, so no matter what you say, the proof is in the pudding: White politicians are deemed alright or anathema in the eyes of black America based upon their politics, not their skin color.

chris - there are lakota, dakota and santee sioux blood running through my family tree. on the other side are the irish.

although my immediate family, especially my brother, are enamored of this fact - i've been on the other side and have seen the devastating effects "government aid" has done to the people, there is no glamor in it for me.

my own father was actually given up for adoption shortly after birth and reared in a polish/jewish family and found his true family about 15 years before his death in 1994. his experience tortured him until he succumbed. sad, really.

i've been to quite a few pow wows.

p.s. i would be perfectly comfortable with a black president if his name were "michael steele", "thomas sowell, etc...

"Michael Steele"?

Okay. just googled it.

What's in a name?

President Steele. Sounds rather strong.
President Sowell. Hmmm, on the soft side.
President McCain. Sounds like a laxative.
President Obama. Sounds different.
President Paul. Very straitforward.
President Barr. Hey let's have a drink.
President Oprah. heh.

So what's your ghetto name?

quiz.myyearbook.com

p.s. i would be perfectly comfortable with a black president if his name were "michael steele", "thomas sowell, etc...

Posted by nanc at 2008-06-22 11:00 PM

How bout his brother Lex?

a person should be judged by the content of their character, not by the color of their skin.

sad how most blacks draw on mlk and have done NOTHING to further their "skincolor".

now, we have hussein obama telling the men to tend to their children when chris rock already said it best:

"You know the worst thing about niggers? Niggers always want credit for some shit they supposed to do. A nigger will brag about some shit a normal man just does. A nigger will say some shit like, "I take care of my kids." You're supposed to, you dumb motherfucker! What kind of ignorant shit is that? "I ain't never been to jail!" What do you want, a cookie?! You're not supposed to go to jail, you low-expectation-having motherfucker!"

from this hbo special - heard it with my own ears.

WOW a Grandmother quoting Chris Rock. My word I think I have seen it all now. I think I am in a state of shock.

Larry Mohr

3 in 10 Americans? Heck, I could have figured that out just by reading the daily posts on the DR. Funny thing is, nobody ever acknowledges their racial bias, but have twenty-twenty vision when it comes to the racial bias of others.

Try this out for size. Obama should (and will) be the next President of the US because he is the best candidate either Party put forward. End of story.

I wonder how many whites will vote for Obama when he actually starts admitting he will give slave reparations to 30 million Americans.

I wonder why I don't know that Alan Keyes supported slave reparations when he ran against Obama, while Obama didn't. Maybe, could be I'm just an . . .
~IMBCILE

Sorry son but Osama Obama supported candidates in Chicago that ran on a Slave Reparation platform and he sidestepped the question three times in the debates.

Obama 2008. Reparations NOW, Reparations Forever. Give a Brotha a handout

C'mon hook a brotha up with some free donuts. My people were enslaved

Lt. Doug Masters will most likely be Obama's VP. Of course, he mind was brainwashed by Colonel Chappy Sinclair while his father was on trial in the Middle East for war crimes

hate to tell y'all this, but i come from an extremely large ultra liberal family - yellow dog dems - if you could only hear what they say about your candy date behind closed doors. it will take at least another generation for old school dems to vote for a black man - they are the most prejudiced people on the planet. most of them only became a little more civilized when my baby sister married one. it was awesome. then she divorced him recently and they went back to being "n****rs". fickle bunch those libs...

larry - chris rock usually rocks! i'm old, not dead for crying out loud.

Interestingly, this directed poll is couched in terms of "prejudice against," so it probably excludes the counting of both black bigots, and whites, who "discriminate in favor of" blacks, and will support a candidate "because he is black."

It seems the supporters" because he is black" crowd are oblivious to his many negatives, and are so bigoted that it overrides other considerations.

Posted by Ray at 2008-06-22 12:33 PM

Just enough for Obama to lose in a close race.

Gosh, you know that if this boy weren't black, he wouldn't have won any primaries. It's the overwhelming support of blacks who are such a significant component of the Democrat Party, that he was nominated.

Obama has little else to recommend him. The combination of his "black constituency" and the "hate Hillary" contingent, were what secured the nomination for him, so mewling that race might cause him to lose the general election is sort of like wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

Obama won because of race. Let him lose because of race. America is a racist society. The most flagrant practitioners of racist politics are blacks, who seem to exhibit little restraint of conscience in selecting representatives of their race.

Wanna bet that Rep. William Jefferson, the cold cash candidate, gets re-elected despite indictments and confessions of his family members for corruption connected to machinations originating from his office? It's in the good old tradition of Rep. Adam Clayton Powell and D.C. Mayor Marion Barry. Now stupid guilt-laden whites are buying into the proposition and selecting unfit blacks because of race. It's a remarkable supension of critical faculties.

"Gosh, you know that if this boy weren't black, he wouldn't have won any primaries. "

One only has to witness all the primaries won by Alan Keyes to attest to this.

Posted by kingzilla at 2008-06-22 03:43 PM

Amazing. A racist country, upset that the people that were held down due to that racism may have some residual anger. Ha! Stupid, stupid people. Only the arrogance of inbred entitlement, by way of skin color and class can account for it.

You want to rationalize black hate for America.

"Justification" of outlook is not the point. However "understandable" alienation and disaffection of some blacks might be, this attitude does render anyone (such as Obama) manifesting such attitudes, as unfit to serve as President.

"Obama 2008. Reparations NOW, Reparations Forever. Give a Brotha a handout

Posted by timbci"

During the South Carolina, April 26, 2007, CNN debate. Anderson Cooper asked, "Senator Obama, [what is] your position on reparations?" Obama said,

"I think the reparation we need right here in South Carolina is investment, for example in our schools. I did a town hall meeting in Florence, South Carolina, in an area called the corridor of shame. They've got buildings that students are trying to learn in that were built right after the Civil War. And we've got teachers who are not trained to teach the subjects they're teaching and high dropout rates. We've got to understand that there are corridors of shame all across the country. And if we make the investments and understand that those are our children, that's the kind of reparation that are really going to make a difference in America right now

Racism is a wonderful tool of the government.
It keeps the natives busy.

SA-

Doesn't take much to get the race baiters swinging from the rafters. The reparations statements are right down there with the he-is/was-a-Muslim faux argument that you see posted here regularly by the usual gang of morons.

Sorry son but you will never be able to rationlize that the majority of black people are sticking the hand out for slave reparations . Obama is the black President. Will he give the tax revenue from white people to the blacks . Kind of amusing being that the freed slaves that moved to Liberia enslaved the natives indeginous to that area

My co-workers in France always laugh at us "stupid Americans". They don't have checkboxes on their job applications for race, because that would be bringing attention to race, instead of it being a non-issue. With our quotas and special programs, we are not creating equality but are instead creating a division based on race.

So, exactly how many generations of African-Americans have to be born in America in order to be called just plain Americans?

The most biased of all are of couse LIBS who are absolutely obcessed with race. They insist on race based quatas for everything from college admissions to hiring, firing and promotions. And now we are not supposed to criticize him because he is half black and anyone who doesn't vote for him is racist. FUCK OBAMA AND FUCK YOU BUNCH OF DOUCHE BAG LIBS.

Posted by fwthom at 2008-06-22 03:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

"most biased of all are of couse LIBS who are absolutely obcessed with race"

Psssssst......So, the Klan and the Skinheads are now libs?

I think it's the republicans that have a lock on the Klan and the Skinheads.

Enjoy your rally!

I never knew Tonyroma was a black dude - that explains everything now....

Also, I don't consider myself racist but I do believe that stereotypes are useful. For instance, I watch the show 'The First 48' on A&E. Before the show even starts, I usually turn to my wife and say - I bet the killer is a black male age 18-24. Now, you might call that racist as that is less than 2% of the US population - but I am right about 90% of the time on the show....

Jacque - are you really that ignorant? Can you come up with any other explanation for what you see on First 48? Think really, really hard.

They did a study in Oregon several years ago, and found that our newspapers printed the photo of most black criminal suspects, but hardly ever printed white suspects' photos. The FACT (tm - JimmyMac) was that 80-something percenmt of crime in Oregon was perpetrated by whites, but the photos in newspapers gave the impression that most crime was perpetrated by blacks.

What does that story teach you, Strap?

Jacque - are you really that ignorant? Can you come up with any other explanation for what you see on First 48? Think really, really hard.

They did a study in Oregon several years ago, and found that our newspapers printed the photo of most black criminal suspects, but hardly ever printed white suspects' photos. The FACT (tm - JimmyMac) was that 80-something percenmt of crime in Oregon was perpetrated by whites, but the photos in newspapers gave the impression that most crime was perpetrated by blacks.

What does that story teach you, Strap?

I'm curious now, JStrap. Could you not tell because I don't espouse a group victimhood mentality, or merely because I see more complication than most simplistic renderings of cultural issues, or all/none of the above?

They did a study in Oregon several years ago, and found that our newspapers printed the photo of most black criminal suspects, but hardly ever printed white suspects' photos.

Funny, in California (Sacramento) they never identify the suspects race. The will say 'male aged 20-30 with a green t-shirt' but do not mention the race out of political correctness. It is a running joke around here as they might as well not report anything at all of their description is going to be that useless.

was that 80-something percenmt of crime in Oregon was perpetrated by whites,

That may be true of Oregon and 'crime' in general, but about more than 25% of the murders in the US are commited by black males age 18-24. I guess that reality is racist.

Now for the show, they typically go to higher crime neighborhoods (so they have a camera crew on site when the murder is reported) and I assume that leads them to predominately black neighborhoods as they make up a majority of homicides. Hell, they could shoot in Gary, IN (a town of ~100K) and have a new show filmed every other day....

I'm curious now, JStrap. Could you not tell because I don't espouse a group victimhood mentality, or merely because I see more complication than most simplistic renderings of cultural issues, or all/none of the above?

Actually, I always thought you were pretty level headed in the past. I simply thought you had gone insane with your hyping of Obama. Now, that I know that you are black, it explains why that happened. You did not go insane in your bashing of Hillary - you were simply being racist.

"That may be true of Oregon and 'crime' in general, but about more than 25% of the murders in the US are commited by black males age 18-24.

Posted by Jacque_Strap at 2008-06-23 01:49 PM"

"but I am right about 90% of the time on the show....

Posted by Jacque_Strap at 2008-06-23 01:26 PM"

Thank you for proving my point.

Montecore, you might have a point is the show was about general crimes like DUI, domestic violence and meth production - but the show is about murder. I will bet you $ to donuts that 90% of the murders in Oregon are not committed by whites. Given that this show is about murder only - I am right about 90% of the time that the killer is a black male age 18-24. Better yet, if you find a black male age 18-24 dead in the street, I will give you 50:1 odds that the killer is another black male age 18-24.

Sorry but the truth is that in black cutlure murdering someone, especially a white person, is the norm.

There are millions of black people currently high on crack that are thinking about killing their white boss and stealing his fat wife

There are millions of black people currently high on crack that are thinking about killing their white boss and stealing his fat wife

I think the norm is 2 gangbangers shoot one another or someone plans to rob a guy during a drug buy/prostitution set up. If either of these happen, I am looking for a black male 18-24 year old. If I happen upon the half eaten corpse in a farm house, I am looking for a middle aged white guy that neighbors describe as 'quiet'. I don't think it is racist to think that this is going to be the case - unless you think reality is racist.

You did not go insane in your bashing of Hillary - you were simply being racist.

I dare you to find one racist assumption or comment as it regarded Hillary and Barack that I've written. My belief in Barack stems from the arch of his life story and accomplishments, most of which I'm sure you have no earthly clue of, which is based on the fact that he is BOTH black and white at the same time. Only imbeciles would consider favoring a bi-racial person "racism" against the other half of his bloodline.

It also shows your own bias in not being able to separate criticism of politics and policy positions from the blatant appeal to identity politics. Hillary spoke all the time about how proud she was to represent women in their struggle to break the glass ceiling.

Find me ONE SINGLE statement where Obama said he was proud merely because of what his candidacy represented in a historical context based on his racial make-up. He has bent over backward to stay away from race. Hillary talked about her "white voters" but Obama never mentioned the fact he earned over 90% of black America's support by representing the type of leadership many want to see. How many black American, Presidents of the Harvard Law Review, magna cum laude graduates of the same school do you know? Yeah, its the same in the black community. Funny, one of the chief criticisms of black American culture has been its propensity to diminish any accomplishment achieved in traditional white America for being "tomish". Now you're implying that blacks are drawn to a bi-racial exception to most every cultural rule, when his life story is one of achievements by predominately white America's standards of success? Does Obama sound like an urban-hip homeboy to your ears?

Yep, you're right. Your point is illogical as well as a complete misunderstanding in the context of race.

As a general observation, I believe the number to be much higher than 30%. We have become a society which prefers generalizing, stereotyping, and avoiding thinking. Anything which enables this will be done by most people.

"Gosh, you know that if this boy weren't black, he wouldn't have won any primaries"

Nope, don't think so. Looks more like the voters looked at the choices, decided most had a vested interest in the status quo and took choice "none of the above" - which also happened to be Obama. From what I've read and heard, many did this despite qualms about his race. If the Republicans want to win, they really need to understand this.

" ... I do believe that stereotypes are useful."

Only for the intellectually lazy. The key to understanding things is to look for nuances. Steretyping very effectively stops you from doing that. As timbci, jacque s. and others keep pointing out in their posts.

Tony - first of all, take a deep breath and relax before your head explodes. Now, would blacks be more inclined to support someone 1/2 black or 100% white? I would say 1/2 black and 90%+ support among the AA community would agree with me.

My belief in Barack stems from the arch of his life story and accomplishments, most of which I'm sure you have no earthly clue of

Yeah, I actually got a pretty good clue. After graduating Harvard (where he did not publish a single writing of his own as editor of the Harvard Law Review) he went on to a successful career as a 'community activist' while doing work for Tony Rezko. After seeing this a path to nowhere, he bumped out Alice Palmer to get her congressional seat where he was able to vote 'present' on important pieces of legislation. He then stated that he made an anti-Iraq war speech somewhere around 2002 that was not recorded. Some time after that, he recreated that speech in a studio and used it to show his great judgment and foresight in not supporting the war. Shortly after that he ran for the Senate where he took campaign money from Tony Rezko that originally came from Auchi - Saddam's money man in the UK. After winning the election, he promptly entered into a shady land deal with Rezko (who was later convicted of money laundering) and his wife got a 3x pay increase. Obama then lobbied for earmarks of $1M for his wife's hospital. This followed in the same path of his prior earmarks to his racist Catholic Father friend/mentor of 20 years. Since this time, he has changed is opinion on Iran (grave threat or tiny nation), meeting with leaders without preconditions, public financing of elections (was for it before he was against it), and support for Pastor Wright.

Further back then that is sorta sketchy - apparently he was born in 1961 - unless of course - you listen to his speech where he said that he was conceived in Selma in 1965....

he bumped out Alice Palmer to get her congressional seat where he was able to vote 'present' on important pieces of legislation

Scatch that, I believe he bumped her out of her state senate seat...

JacqueStrap: Over the last five years as a criminal defense attorney I have represented ten men accused of murder. Only one was Black. Five were Latino. Four were Caucausion.
Flush your stereotypes down the toilet because they just do not apply as broadly as you seem to think.

Jacque - I can't find the stats to prove the murder statistics in Oregon, but I can tell you the percentages for our Measure 11 inmates (measure 11 is/was a sentencing law for only the most serious crimes):

Whites: 4,165 (73%)
Blacks: 579 (10%)

www.oregon.gov/DOC/RESRCH/
docs/m11snp.pdf

Mod,
Court appointed defense atty?

101 - you won't qualify for a court-appointed attorney, because they'll count your mom's income too. Sorry!

I recently read in People maggazine that by the age of 30, most black men have killed or paid to have someone killed.

I recently read in People maggazine that by the age of 30, most black men have killed or paid to have someone killed.

101Chair: Yes

Mod,
This should probably be something I know, but what if you don't believe in the guy/gals you are appointed to represent? Can you take a pass or are you stuck? Does that option or lack there of vary by state?

"I recently read in People maggazine that by the age of 30, most black men have killed or paid to have someone killed."

Wow! what an unbelievably asinine statement. It truly boggles my mind that someone could actually say something like this. Looks like Ray might be right after all. If this kind of belief hits the mainstream, this country is definitely gone.

I have no option. I represent anyone. My job is to see to it that their rights are not violated. If they say they are not guilty it is my job to have the case investigated, - witnesses contacted, experts hired, etc. In the vast majority of cases, it is my job to negotiate the most favorable resolution available for a client who wishes to enter a guilty plea (plea bargaining).
It is NEVER my job to lie for a client. The problem is that usually it is difficult to know if a client is lying. I have had clients I was convinced were lying turn out to be telling the absolute truth and vice versa. Making it more complex is that sometimes (not that often) police officers lie or mis-remember evidence. Figuring out what is the precise truth is often impossible.
It is a very imperfect system. And one unfortunately in which money often plays a big part. But we do the best we can to ethically represent everyone and anyone, no matter how obnoxious or how guilty.

I recently read in People maggazine that by the age of 30, most black men have killed or paid to have someone killed.

Spud recently read in People magazine that Timbit's Momma was on the cover of Crack Ho magazine three times last year and that li'l Timmy real daddy was actually a roadie fer Flock of Seagulls.

Don't believe a word of it, of course, just saying...

Be Well.

You forgot the most important part, Moder8 - your bill! 101, you owe Moder8 eleventy-hundred dollars.

Mod,
Thanks for the info. I imagine the burn out rate is quite high.


Jacque - I can't find the stats to prove the murder statistics in Oregon, but I can tell you the percentages for our Measure 11 inmates (measure 11 is/was a sentencing law for only the most serious crimes):

Whites: 4,165 (73%)
Blacks: 579 (10%)

Well, blacks make up less than 2% of Oregon's population so them making up 10% of the murders is probably in the ballpark. Second, I think it is less likely to have a conviction (and hence inmate) for a drug related killing that are usually commited by black males age 18-24. A lot of these crimes go unsolved so those numbers are understated. Overall, I guess I am right again that Whites do not commit 90% of the murders in OR. I am sure that someone could surf over to stormfront and find the exact numbers on a nationwide basis - I think they would show that blacks commit 30-50% of all murders (not manslaughter or DUI related killings) nationwide.

Now, would blacks be more inclined to support someone 1/2 black or 100% white? I would say 1/2 black and 90%+ support among the AA community would agree with me.

Then why isn't Alan Keyes draw more black support in 2004 instead of Obama since Keyes is "full-black" and Obama's only half? Blacks have voted for whites over other blacks nominally because the specific blacks didn't resonate with the political concerns of the community. See its weird that way with American blacks. 95% of the time our choices are one white dude or the other white dude, and yet we always choose a white dude. Ever wonder why? Funny, more blacks (as a %) voted for Kerry in LA in 2004 than voted for Obama in the 2008 primary Are you this stupid in person?

Take your head out of your ass. You don't speak for black people and you never will. You don't understand black people and you never will, not saying that I do either. There is no monolithic black community just like there is no monolithic white community. You are a hopeless case of convoluted thought manifesting itself in jibberish, regurgitating disparate facts as though they represent the whole. They never have and they never will.

Then why isn't Alan Keyes draw more black support in 2004 instead of Obama since Keyes is "full-black" and Obama's only half?

Tony - if all black voters were informed on the issues, I would agree with you 100% that they are voting based on issues and not skin color. However, this clearly is not the case and many (maybe most) of Obama's black supporters support him because he is black. The funny thing is - many of his white supporters also support him because he is black. Seeing as though you are from the black community, ask your friends what Obama's accomplishments are....try not to laugh when they say that he voted against the war...

Tony - if all black voters were informed on the issues, I would agree with you 100% that they are voting based on issues and not skin color.

And the whites who dislike Obama because he's a Muslim or because he refuses to say the Pledge are "informed"? Your point is universal, it isn't limited to blacks.

The majority of Obama's support comes from people who see his vision of governing America as correct and that of others not as positive as they deem Obama's. You keep forgetting that Obama's percentage of black support was under 30 a mere 5 months ago. Did he change color in February? No, the black community was more skeptical of him than any other that didn't know him at all. His color is a bonus in many's estimation, but it isn't a reason to vote for him nor against him. He's running for political office and you malign the majority of the electorate with your simplistic bigotry.

As I said, blacks have to choose every election, but we still choose someone, usually white, don't we? And so it is with Obama. He happens to be the choice largely because people trust his instincts and judgment. These are far more important to the masses than a list of legislative accomplishments of which W had little or none prior to ascending to the White House.

Take your head out of your ass. You don't speak for black people and you never will.

Oh, and relax a little bit. Keeping all that hate and anger in you can not be good for your health.

These are far more important to the masses than a list of legislative accomplishments of which W had little or none prior to ascending to the White House.

Great point - W had no experience and has been a total failure. You can see why people don't trust Obama then?

He happens to be the choice largely because people trust his instincts and judgment.

Instincts and judgments as shown by what exactly? His friendship with Wright, Flegger, Rezko, and Ayers? His instincts in being able to flip-flop on important policy issues at break neck speed? What exactly has the guy accomplished other than graduating from Harvard? You do realize that about 600 people graduate from Harvard each year and that Harvard is not even the top ranked Law school is the US, right? You realize that his career post law school was as a 'community organizer' and working on behalf of Rezko to get gov money for his slum housing? Exactly what are his accomplishments or points where he has shown leadership or good judgement? I truly am curious as it is easy to find negatives but I never really heard anybody articulate the positives.

Jacque...

Read and learn:

en.wikipedia.org

www.townhall.com

blogs.tnr.com

You continue to show your ignorance of Obama in much the sense you claim voters are uninformed. Obama never worked for Rezko in his LIFE! His law firm did put him on a deal where Rezko's interests were on the opposite side. One deal. Just another thing you're uniformed about, huh? He had nothing to do with Rezko's business as it relates to any flow of money, but continue with the lies and smears, it reveals your complete lack of character as it pertains to reality.

Do you realize he could have walked into any number of Wall Street jobs paying well in excess of 6 figures but choose to work on the streets of Chicago instead, and you question his motives? Thats why he's running for President and you're debating with me on a blog! His life is an example of making good judgments as is his success in being a father and husband. Again, READ and you will find out the breadth of Obama's experience and many things you are completely clueless about.

After West Va and Ken; is this any surprise?

Whole regions of the country are backward.

Okay Tony - just to be fair and because I truly am interested in knowing what Obama has done in his life to qualify him to be president, I read the townhall link. What I found can be summarized as:

I should note this this article was written by another unknown person...

Accomplishments that qualify Obama to be president:
1.) Has a rock star personna
2.) Editor of Harvard Law Review
3.) Committed Liberal
4.) Has street smarts
5.) He is colorblind
6.) He is self confident
7.) He listens
8.) He has a sense of humor

Well, Tony, that link did not win me over. He sound like about 50% of the people that I know for his traits and frankly I am not impressed by a law degree. So, please tell me exactly what he has done or how he has demonstrated any of these 'traits' and maybe I will consider you something other than a racist voting for the black dude.

Oh, and Tony, if you want to lie and say that Obama has never worked with Rezko or had a close personal relationship with him or got him funding for his slum projects, go ahead and do it. Those with a fully functioning brain understand that the Obama/Rezko relationship goes back a long ways...

I gotta say Jaque, TonyRoma really handed you your strap. He made you look downright foolish. LOL


I gotta say Jaque, TonyRoma really handed you your strap. He made you look downright foolish. LOL

Posted by moder8

What the hell are you talking about dumbass? Tony posted links 'demonstrating' Obama's qualifications. Instead of showing anything useful or factual, he links to an opinion of an unknown lawyer that says Obama has a sense of humor - yep, really proved me wrong there. Still trying to find something that Obama has actually accomplished aren't you?

Jacque...

The fact you're a condescending bigot who knows less about Obama than my 12 year old still doesn't continence to the fact you have no idea what you're talking about and evidently no idea what you wrote yourself! You didn't mention one word about Obama and Rezko being friends, hell, W and Ken Lay were far more than friends and Lay's crimes dwarfed Rezko's didn't they, so don't get so high and mighty on me as though Obama's a sworn member of the Russian mafia! And W and Dick got Ken his loophole which is currently fucking American citizens out of their hard earned money yet again because investment speculators are running amok in unregulated offshore future's markets.

To me, and most thinking Americans, the fact that Obama turned down Rezko's company's more lucrative offer to take his law firm job in the first place tells me he made a better choice there. And stop acting like you know all your friends business, as if Tony ran everything he was doing by Obama on a daily basis. Yes, Rezko had nefarious ties and introduced Obama to at least one controversial figure, but would YOU KNOW WHO THE BAD GUY WAS if not for the trial itself? What do you expect from Obama, personal vetting of every person his friends have him meet?

People like you are looking for dirt, you aren't looking for the truth or care about the fact we're all just humans and sometimes our friends don't turn out to be what we thought they were. No one has ever turned up any credible evidence that the relationship between Obama and Rezko was anything more than Obama's said that it was incdluding the Chicago papers who've investigated this for over 6 years, so stop acting as if I'm being remiss and that you somehow know something I'm ignoring. If Obama's friendship with Rezko is the worst thing he's ever done, it still places him way far beyond most politicians who run for the office of POTUS.

And please, don't even go there with Wright. Take a few controversial sermons over 20 years and ignore the fact that the church has been doing tremendous good works in their community the entire time, fostering the conservative ideal that its members take responsibility for their own lives instead of expecting a handout. You're smarter than that and you know it. So make your asinine comments about who the actual racist is. Its obvious by the veracity of our posts. You don't have a serious thread of any of it as you propagate innuendo and traffic proven lies as if they were gospel.

I gotta say Jaque, TonyRoma really handed you your strap. He made you look downright foolish. LOL

Yep, Jacque looks like the Black Knight from Monty Python fame, doesn't he.

Stop bleeding all over the place Jacque and go get a tourniquet!

Tony,

You seem to get all misty-eyed over this:

Do you realize he could have walked into any number of Wall Street jobs paying well in excess of 6 figures but choose to work on the streets of Chicago instead

I agree, that it's commendable. However, I fail to see how it makes him qualified to be POTUS. Mother Theresa certainly isn't qualified.

And please, don't even go there with Wright. Take a few controversial sermons over 20 years

It's more than a few, Tony. I don't have the link in front of me, but it's been posted on DR before providing audio and transcripts for way more than a few controversial sermons.

and ignore the fact that the church has been doing tremendous good works in their community the entire time

That's a fair point, however Jerry Falwell has done 'tremendous good works' and none of his good deeds are ever acknowledged when liberals trash the shit out of him. Why you expect the racist-Wright to be treated by a different standard is beyond me.

JACQUE STRAP: #9 He can be easily controlled by leading democrates including George Soros.

TOny Roma. LOL you are a fool son. The Enron loophole is good for America and I will fight for it if necessary. If you can't afford the price of gas maybe you should move to Europe. Oh yea gas is more expensive there

The fact you're a condescending bigot who knows less about Obama than my 12 year old

Wow, really pulling out your heavy weapons now - calling me a racist and stupid all in the same insult. You da man!

W and Ken Lay were far more than friends and Lay's crimes dwarfed Rezko's didn't they,

What the hell does W have to do with the price of tea in China when we are talking about Obama's qualifications to be president. I didn't vote for Bush and I do not support Bush - he was a disaster for this country. Saying that Obama would be 'better than Bush' simply does not matter to me. I realize that you are grasping for anything positive to say about Obama, but this just makes you look pathetic.

And stop acting like you know all your friends business, as if Tony ran everything he was doing by Obama on a daily basis.

Well, if I were in politics I sure the hell would want to know where my chief bundler was getting his cash. I guess you prefer to be blind to that. Further, the house deal with Rezko shows Obama to be arrogant about his corruption or too stupid to know better - you pick.

So, you have now written countless posts on this thread and have yet to post anything positive about what Obama has actually accomplished. You are great with the personal attacks though - you sure got me beat there! I assume you, like most Obama supporters, realize that he has not accomplished a damn thing.

"...and have yet to post anything positive about what Obama has actually accomplished."

Obama's greatest accomplishments are yet to come.

Zot. The beach boys said the same thing about Charlie Manson

Zot. The beach boys said the same thing about Charlie Manson

Zot. The beach boys said the same thing about Charlie Manson

Obama's greatest accomplishments are yet to come.

Posted by ZOT

You know, I would have to agree with this - not that he will accomplish a lot, but the fact is that the guy has not done anything in 46 years of life but get a Harvard law degree - something that I don't even respect that much...

Funny Flag for Strap! Just a stupid old Harvard law degree. Anyone could get one of those. What a fucking douchebag.

You know, I would have to agree with this - not that he will accomplish a lot, but the fact is that the guy has not done anything in 46 years of life but get a Harvard law degree - something that I don't even respect that much...

Obama's "accomplishments" have to be taken into the same context that other candidates running for President are. I provided you with links documenting what he's accomplished but I guess that's not good enough for you, is it? Earning the respect and admiration of both friends and foes alike isn't admirable either, huh?

As I stated, let's compare the only two metrics that matter: What have Obama and John McCain done in their lives as it pertains to serving their constituency or the public in general?

Obama's election in February 1990 as the first black president of the Harvard Law Review was widely reported and followed by several long, detailed profiles.[15] He graduated with a J.D. magna cum laude from Harvard in 1991 and returned to Chicago where he had worked as a summer associate at the law firms of Sidley & Austin in 1989 and Hopkins & Sutter in 1990.[14][16]

The publicity from his election as the first black president of the Harvard Law Review led to a contract and advance to write a book about race relations.[17] In an effort to recruit him to their faculty, the University of Chicago Law School provided Obama with a fellowship and an office to work on his book.[17] He originally planned to finish the book in one year, but it took much longer as the book evolved into a personal memoir. In order to work without interruptions, Obama and his wife, Michelle, traveled to Bali where he wrote for several months. The manuscript was finally published as Dreams from My Father in mid-1995.[17]

Obama directed Illinois Project Vote! from April to October 1992, a voter registration drive with a staff of 10 and 700 volunteers that achieved its goal of registering 150,000 of 400,000 unregistered African Americans in the state, leading Crain's Chicago Business to name Obama to its 1993 list of "40 under Forty" powers to be.[18][19]

Obama taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School for twelve years, as a Lecturer for four years (19921996), and as a Senior Lecturer for eight years (19962004).

Once elected, Obama gained bipartisan support for legislation reforming ethics and health care laws.[24] He sponsored a law increasing tax credits for low-income workers, negotiated welfare reform, and promoted increased subsidies for childcare.[25] In 2001, as co-chairman of the bipartisan Joint Committee on Administrative Rules, Obama supported Republican Governor Ryan's payday loan regulations and predatory mortgage lending regulations aimed at averting home foreclosures,[26] and in 2003, Obama sponsored and led unanimous, bipartisan passage of legislation to monitor racial profiling by requiring police to record the race of drivers they detained and legislation making Illinois the first state to mandate videotaping of homicide interrogations. During his 2004 general election campaign for U.S. Senate, police representatives credited Obama for his active engagement with police organizations in enacting death penalty reforms.

Montecore:
1.) I do not consider lawyers to be productive members of society. You and your ambulence chasing ilk might disagree, but so be it. Much like how I wish the US would adopt European style medical care, I wish we would adopt their legal system so we can cut down on the legal fat in this country.

2.) Harvard churns out about 600 lawyers per year. The top 10 schools churn out another 4000 or so - are they the best and brightest this country has to offer? Maybe in your small mind. So, is it even all that special to hold a law degree - even if it is from Harvard? I simply am not that impressed - sorry....

Most lawyers get their undergrad in the humanities and not even in hard sciences. Then they get further training in the US arcane legal system. No wonder their brains are still mushy. I respect a tier 4 engineering graduate from India more than I repect a lawyer.

Partnering with Republican Senators Richard Lugar of Indiana and then Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, Obama successfully introduced two initiatives bearing his name. "LugarObama" expanded the NunnLugar cooperative threat reduction concept to conventional weapons, including shoulder-fired missiles and anti-personnel mines.[56] The "CoburnObama Transparency Act" authorized the establishment of USAspending.gov, a web search engine launched in December 2007 and run by the Office of Management and Budget.[57] After Illinois residents complained of waste water contamination by a neighboring nuclear plant, Obama sponsored legislation requiring plant owners to notify state and local authorities of radioactive leaks.[58] A compromise version of the bill was subsequently blocked by partisan disputes and later reintroduced.[59] In December 2006, President Bush signed into law the "Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act," marking the first federal legislation to be enacted with Obama as its primary sponsor.

In January 2007, Obama worked with Democrat Russ Feingold of Wisconsin to eliminate gifts of travel on corporate jets by lobbyists to members of Congress and require disclosure of bundled campaign contributions under the "Honest Leadership and Open Government Act," which was signed into law in September 2007.[61] He introduced S. 453, a bill to criminalize deceptive practices in federal elections, including fraudulent flyers and automated phone calls, as witnessed in the 2006 midterm elections.[62] Obama's energy initiatives scored pluses and minuses with environmentalists, who welcomed his sponsorship with McCain of a climate change bill to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by two-thirds by 2050, but were skeptical of his support for a bill promoting liquefied coal production.[63] Obama also introduced the "Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007," a bill to cap troop levels in Iraq, begin phased redeployment, and remove all combat brigades from Iraq before April 2008.[64]

Later in 2007, Obama sponsored an amendment to the Defense Authorization Act adding safeguards for personality disorder military discharges, and calling for an official review following reports that the procedure had been used inappropriately to reduce government costs.[65] He sponsored the "Iran Sanctions Enabling Act" supporting divestment of state pension funds from Iran's oil and gas industry, and joined Republican Chuck Hagel of Nebraska in introducing legislation to reduce risks of nuclear terrorism.[66][67] A provision from the ObamaHagel bill was passed by Congress in December 2007 as an amendment to the State-Foreign Operations appropriations bill.[67] Obama also sponsored a Senate amendment to the State Children's Health Insurance Program providing one year of job protection for family members caring for soldiers with combat-related injuries.

As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Obama has made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. In August 2005, he traveled to Russia, Ukraine, and Azerbaijan. The trip focused on strategies to control the world's supply of conventional weapons, biological weapons, and weapons of mass destruction as a first defense against terrorist attacks.[73] Following meetings with U.S. military in Kuwait and Iraq in January 2006, he visited Jordan, Israel, and the Palestinian territories. At a meeting with Palestinian students two weeks before Hamas won the legislative election, Obama warned that "the U.S. will never recognize winning Hamas candidates unless the group renounces its fundamental mission to eliminate Israel."

On the role of government in economic affairs, Obama has written: "We should be asking ourselves what mix of policies will lead to a dynamic free market and widespread economic security, entrepreneurial innovation and upward mobility [...] we should be guided by what works."[104] Speaking before the National Press Club in April 2005, he defended the New Deal social welfare policies of Franklin D. Roosevelt, associating Republican proposals to establish private accounts for Social Security with social Darwinism.[105] In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, Obama spoke out against government indifference to growing economic class divisions, calling on both political parties to take action to restore the social safety net for the poor.[106] Shortly before announcing his presidential campaign, Obama told the health care advocacy group Families USA that he supports universal healthcare in the United States,[107] the same kind of health care that Members of Congress give themselves.

en.wikipedia.org

Geeze Jacque-breath, I guess you've been an attorney, law professor, and a US Senator who's worked on reigning in loose WMDs and tightening ethics rules for Congress, and increasing governmental transparency as it pertains to how our tax dollars are spent by the time you turned 47. Yeah, you're right...he hasn't accomplished much at all has he? Just wait, the best is yet to come.

I provided you with links documenting what he's accomplished but I guess that's not good enough for you, is it?

Your links did not list accomplishments other than then that he listens well and has a sense of humor. Great accomplishments there - maybe Dr. Phil can run as his VP.

Even your latest cut and paste effort only lists his accomplishments as:

1.) Harvard Grad
2.) Wrote a book
3.) Taught Law
4.) Helped pass laws to record the race of drivers at traffic stops and record homicide investigation interrogations

Great! That changes everything! Hell, with that list, I guess I can overlook Rezko, Wright, Ayers, Farrakhan, flip-flopping on meeting w/o preconditions, flip flopping on pulling the troops out of Iraq, flip flopping on single payer healthcare, flip flopping on public financing of elections, etc....Yeah, you sure showed me with that great list of creditials!

Jacque is jealous of Obama...it reeks through every single pore of the groundless dismissals he clings to.

As I stated, make the case that other Presidents have more impressive credentials, and please, pick out one you admire, not those you deem failures.

And then tell us why, objectively, John McCain is a better choice than Barack Obama, based on their pasts and track records as politicians. Your choice of comparative points.

PS: Visit the "Experience:..." thread. A cogent case is made that state legislative experience for the proper candidate might be far more relevant to accomplishing the people's business as President or in leadership than spending years in Congress with staffs full of robots who do most of the heavy lifting themselves while the politician mainly preens and struts like a peacock.

A cogent case is made that state legislative experience for the proper candidate might be far more relevant to accomplishing the people's business as President or in leadership than spending years in Congress with staffs full of robots who do most of the heavy lifting themselves while the politician mainly preens and struts like a peacock.

Yes, I am sure that this is the same tune you were singing when Kerry was running on his record of accomplishing nothing in the Senate. I guess this is the case the Obamabots have to make now though given that he has accomplished nothing and does not even bother to show up to the committee he chairs or to vote for that matter.

Jacque is jealous of Obama...it reeks through every single pore of the groundless dismissals he clings to

No, not jealous - just not too impressed. I think the guy could make a strong case for Attorney General given his legal experience - or a talk show host given his 'listens well and has a sense of humor' traits....but he is not qualified to be President. Hell, if he was a white guy, he would probably be counting his blessing to even by a Senator with that background. I know that you are blinded by your racism to see a true picture of Obama - it will be funny watching you blame everyone but yourself when he loses the general in a landslide.

I know that you are blinded by your racism to see a true picture of Obama - it will be funny watching you blame everyone but yourself when he loses the general in a landslide.

You should see about securing a nice rubber room....

You're going to need one come November.

And where and in what words have I made my case for Obama based solely on his race? Never have. Obama would be an impressive individual regardless of his skin color. I never once alluded to Kerry's record as a reason to vote for him. All it took was 4 years of a disaster called George W. Bush to cause many of us to look for any and all viable alternatives, and unfortunately Kerry was the one the Party chose last time.

I find it hard to believe you think so little of Americans that they'll choose going back to the failure of the past instead of building their foundation for a long awaited journey into our future. Obama inspires me because he understands that we have more in common than we have things that separate us. He speaks to and nurtures this vision and articulates a message of unity instead of division. Nowhere in these calculations does race factor-in, except as it pertains to the perceptions his ethnicity gives to the rest of the globe, the majority of whom aren't Caucasians.

And lastly, aren't you quite arrogant to even remotely presume you know who and what I am merely because I articulate a desire to see Obama become President? The only person clinging to racial labels is YOU, not me. I made my case based on his character, intelligence and vision, not his race. You, however, went straight for the only thing you think that matters to me, and you couldn't be more wrong if you tried, not to mention how simplistic such a dubious analogy is based on what you've seen me write over the years. I don't play identity politics, I abhor them in any direction.

Anyone with half a brain could easily analogize that Obama's political experience dwarfed that of John Edwards, but no one claimed his popularity was based on race, did they? You've just shown your own true colors, which obviously are green and blue.

Obama would be an impressive individual regardless of his skin color.

Posted by tonyroma

What has he done in his life that has impressed you the most?

Obama inspires me because he understands that we have more in common than we have things that separate us.

Obama is divisive as they come. He has voted partyline - when he votes - almost 100% of the time. He speaks to the masses as if they were victims - as he sees himself. His rhetoric almost always contains an "us against them" mentality.

Obama is qualified to be on the motivational speaker tour, not the leader of the free world.

Tony - you don't need to state that are voting based on race, it is obvious from the fact that you can not point to anything concrete that Obama has accomplished and yet you walk lockstep and try to explain away his flip-flops and nefarious associations. Unlike you - I see politicians for what they are: useless lying douchebags that will say anything to get elected. Hell, even Obama's own pastor/mentor said that about Obama.

As for comparisons to Edwards - I agree, he was a useless douchebag as well. He made his money suing doctors and then sat a few years in the Senate before deciding to run for President before being kicked out of office. Oh, by the way, Edwards never had the Obama cult supporting him - he was just seen as another dishonest politician.

Lastly, I don't think anyone wants 4 more years of Bush - not even McCain. But to think that ANYTHING would be better than that is foolish. An inexperienced president over his head and trying to learn on the job like Obama will be WORSE than Bush. I vote for my country first - political parties be damned.

"I do not consider lawyers to be productive members of society."

Posted by Jacque_Strap

Everybody loathes and detests lawyers.

Until they need one...

I'm a racist against popular politicians. Race, color, religion, sex, whatever: they are all bought by the same multinational corporations. i.e. a whore is a whore.

I think black people and white people in this country have everything in common.
The ones who have nothing in common are the ones comming from outside our country, they can bearly speak our language.

I have no illusions: Obama is a politician. I expect no less. But I do expect a little more. And even if he's all great---as if---he's going to be shackled with monstrous debts and oncoming economic tsunamis. I'm not expecting miracles, I'm looking for good governance, and as a registered Independent since the start, I've shown a lifelong penchant to vote for either party who'll deliver. And from a governance stance alone, this current crop is the worst I've seen in my lifetime. Lousy fiscal choices, lousy military leadership, lousy diplomacy, and some seriously shady doings. I mean, the President commuted the sentence of the guy convicted of four felonies covering for the Vice President (and possibly the President). Something is rotten in Denmark.

As for this election, McCain was one of the two Rs I was looking at until he turned into a Bush clone on torture and the religious right and deficits and tax breaks for billionaires. I also believe the pendulum has swung too far right in the Supreme Court---you almost never read of pivotal cases decided in favor of citizens over corporations or governments, and the idea of Scalia being the main idealogical thrust for the next generation doesn't sit well with me.

But I also believe Obama offers something different, and it may be surprising: McCain (and Hillary for that matter) represent, to me, the Vietnam era, when I came of age. Sides were chosen, and you either supported it, or protested it. The images to me are McCain in his Navy uniform, and Hillary in her hippie sunglasses with her long, straight hair. I've lived with that divide most of my life, and it seemed to really separate with the Limbaughization of the country, peaking (for me) during the bogus impeachment proceedings against Clinton. ( I knew then it was political payback for Nixon, and it's even more obvious now.) That was the first time in my life I voted a straight Democratic ticket. Usually, my politics aligned with someone like Jack Danforth (hence the moniker): fiscal sanity, small government, and privacy.

Currently, I still vote for both, and both sides of issues (voted against a tax hike and against a (bad) public transit proposal recently---"Republican" positions, I guess, and I'll gladly vote for a competent local Republican), but with the big stuff, I've been voting more against the lousy governing Rs than for the Ds. Obama, though, offers a chance to turn the page on the Vietnam era stuff I mentioned earlier. Truly, the Greatest Generation has been followed by the Greediest Generation, and we haven't done a very good job of it. And the current crop of Republicans are the worst of the worst. Time to get them out and get some new blood in. As far as Obama's inexperience, I'll pass on the snide remarks about the plentiful experience of the current occupants, and say I believe surrounding himself with brilliant people will be enough. Regardless, it's important to hold feet to the fire of whomever gets elected this November.

Posted by Danforth at 2008-06-24 08:03 PM

Just wanted to show you Jacque, just how incredibly wrong you are.

And how arrogantly ignorant to boot. I've given you volumes of concrete accomplishments as well as the only one that matters to most as reasons why. It comes down to prefering one over the other. You nor anyone is prescient enough to understand why anyone makes the choice we do because such choices are shaped by how we view the world and by how we view the things that are important to each other on a personal basis. That choice is each person's to explain as they feel, not in the narrow, bigoted way you try to define them.

As Danforth so eloquently answered another tunnel-visioned poster, Cookfish; so have I answered you, and every word above stands to the testament of my reasons, and as a testament to your lack of comprehending that which was written solely for that purpose.

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