Yea the AP got more users to their site because of this site

whats with corps going after the consumers?

you can't sue those that bring business to you

unless you want to lose business.

The DMCA is an atrocity, basically corporate protectionism. Too bad that idiot Bill Clinton signed it into law.

Damn Liberal Media!

/I hope they don't notice that the name Drudge is stolen too.

I can't seem to open that page, could someone paste the entire thing here?

I will be notifying users and taking down the allegedly infringing material over the next few days.

Although I don't feel like we're doing anything illegal here, particularly when the excerpts of the article are as short as 50-75 words, AP clearly thinks otherwise. I'll have some concrete suggestions for how we can avoid this problem in the future.

In the meantime, it would be helpful if users didn't link to AP stories as much as possible. I certainly am looking for alternative sources, like Reuters, regional newspapers, non-AP stories on USA Today, Washington Post and New York Times, and blogs.

We heard ya Rogers. Full out boycott of AP.
Thy shall be done.

You're in Florida, rcade. Just a quick jump and you can be offshore.

WOW Unbelievable.

Larry Mohr

While the law in this area is relatively sparse, I think the issue doesn't come down to the links themselves, but the portions of the article quoted which inherently creates confusion over who wrote the material. AP may be entitled to have readers know that the paragraphs we quote on the site were written by, and are owned by, them.

Eventually someone will litigate their DMCA notices in the context of hyperlinking and we will know more. In the meantime, we can always simply not link to their stories, which will drive down readership of the sites they sell their stories to. Counterproductive corporate bullying at its finest.

You're in Florida, rcade. Just a quick jump and you can be offshore.

Yeah, they already think you're a commie, move it to Cuba.

i'm down with a boycott of AP

in the ear!

What a crock! And know what? AP is jealous that RCADE has found a more interesting way to link users to the News and Rumor Control than AP has found.

None of the users who post makes a profit at all. If RCADE does, it's by luck, not by encouraging plagiarism. We're all nobodies here, equal to each other in our nobodiness.

I can't seem to open that page, could someone paste the entire thing here?

Posted by shirtsbyeric


That's actually pretty funny. FF for you.

.

How much do they want for a license Rogers?

I assume that Matt has one.

I think it is nuts, but I always at least look at the option of playing by their rules.

I am sure their concern is that people are getting the jist of the story from your domain and not going to the linked AP story. Thus, people are seeing the ads that people pay you for and not AP's clients advertisements.

But what in the hell do I know?

Way cool, Rogers!

Hang in there. If the AP and/or others do a story about this..... and if they spell your name correctly.... this could be just the advertising boon you need!

Until then, no mo' AP.

OMFG! I am not sure whether you have won the lottery or are going to hell RCADE. But, I think you may become more famous than Drudge hisself!

DMCA are Assholes. You will win and be rich! rich! rich!

Wait...

rcade

what if you iframe the site so it literally puts the link in a small section up on top so we don't have to paste any part of the article.

Boycott? Fuck that!

I say we go on an AP linking bananza!!!!

AP are assholes! DMCA does not apply...

Share the wealth, bro'!

or at least rent some more gerbils.

Hey since we are not paid to be here and when We link to stories we are not paid to do so. How can this apply to us?? I just don't get it. We aren't making a buck off of it.

Larry Mohr

rats.. are=our

RCADE

I'll have to look thru the fine points of your thread when I have a little more time. I think you are being unfairly prosecuted.

Out of curiosity now I went directly to AP's own website.

On one page AP listed all their OWN requirements when printing a story -- credits due, bylines, etc.

One section from this AP website page is quoted below as follows:

USE OF OTHERS' MATERIAL:

An AP staffer who reports and writes a story must use original content, language and phrasing. We do not plagiarize, meaning that we do not take the work of others and pass it off as our own

But in some resp ects, AP staffers must deal with gray areas.

It is common for an AP staffer to include in his or her work passages from a previous AP story by another writer generally background, or boilerplate. This is acceptable if the passages are short. Regardless, the reporter writing the story is responsible for the factual and contextual accuracy of the material.

Also, the AP often has the right to use material from its members and subscribers; we sometimes take the work of newspapers, broadcasters and other outlets, rewrite it and transmit it without credit.

There are rules, however. When the material is exclusive, controversial or sensitive, we always credit it. And we do not transmit the stories in their original form; we rewrite them, so that the approach, content, structure and length meet our requirements and reflect the broader audience we serve.

Similar rules apply when we use material from news releases. Under no circumstances can releases reach the wire in their original form; we can use information and quotes from releases, but we must check the material, augment it with information from other sources, and then write our own stories.

We apply the same judgment in picking up material from members or from news releases that we use when considering information we receive from other sources. We must satisfy ourselves, by our own reporting, that the material is credible. If it does not meet AP standards, we don't use it.

For video, if another broadcaster's material is required and distributed, the name of that broadcaster shall be advised on the accompanying shotlist.

Pickups of audio and of television graphics are credited in billboards/captions when the member requests it.

We're all nobodies here, equal to each other in our nobodiness.
POSTED BY TOWNNCOUNTRY
--------

Speak for yourself. I like to think I'm just a little more nobody than the rest of you.

shoot. Ok, first are=our, the second are=are. If there are any more are's, then they are are's.

dear DMCA,

Fuck you


cheers,
The free world

RCADE

Here's the link to the quote I provided above:

Enjoy your 15 minutes of fame...may you have more minutes!

You deserve them:>)

Speak for yourself. I like to think I'm just a little more nobody than the rest of you.

Posted by the_nether at 2008-06-12 04:17 PM

I don't sell myself short. I am a tremendous slouch!!!

I think this is a freedom of speech issue. Sounds like somebody is trying to shut down a form of discussion and exchanging ideas that is growing in strength across the world.

Plus I find it to be great therapy.

Quoting articles and linking to these articles is essential to that discussion.

What you do is a great thing RCADE. I hope you succeed.

Reuters and AFP both have much better news reporting than AP.

this kicked the constitutinal rights for Gitmo story off the headline

guess all politics is local

Maybe I aught to learn how to do video through My webcam and put Kiss My Ass AP with an arrow pointing down on the small of My back to My naked ass and post it on YouTube as a form of protest. That aught to royally piss them off.

Larry Mohr

Maybe I aught to learn how to do video through My webcam and put Kiss My Ass AP with an arrow pointing down on the small of My back to My naked ass and post it on YouTube as a form of protest.

Couldn't you simply film yourself flipping them the bird? Instead of the detailed video??

Crispee flipping them the bird is so ordinary.

Larry

Crispee flipping them the bird is so ordinary.

Larry

Posted by LarryMohr at 2008-06-12 04:37 PM

Yeah I know. But the visual would be much easier on my eyes. Hell I just threw away what was left of my lunch. Of course part of it went through my nose when I first read your post. Then the images started setting in...

"I'll have some concrete suggestions for how we can avoid this problem in the future."

Look forward to reading them.

Even local newspaper quote from the AP somethimes . It will definitely reduce the number of entries people will post, I can tell you that.

BTW the e-mail you have for me is OK, if it bounced before it's because I had gotten careless with my anti-spam filter and was blocking legitimate e-mail.

The AP is going to be Rogers bestestest friend, I bet the traffic here increases dramatically. Make sure they spell your name right.

Question, what if you post an article from say, the Wash Post, it doesn't have AP or Associate Press anywhere on the byline, but there is a picture credited to an AP photographer? Does that article become off limits?

Chris-

I'm sure AP's lawyers are heavy hitters. I doubt RCade has the time, desire, or money (no offense) to take this to the mat with them. If compliance is simply a matter of including an automatic disclaimer with their stories, or finding news from other sources, I don't see any reason for wasting time fighting it unless you can find an enthusiastic internet lawyer to do it pro bono. In the meantime, asking them to back up their assumption that this doesn't constitute Fair Use is probably smart - they probably scour the web for people using their stories and send out these form letters to everyone.

RCADE

Adams & Reese (Music Row Branch) - if you decide you need to get a copyright attorney.

They're a LOT cheaper than the ones I've used in LA and NYC

615-341-0068

A site called RedTram News is runing this story with links to Workbench and here.
-Corky

Rcade should sue those redtram bastards for all they are worth!

And to be extra careful, I'm putting Joe on retainer incase Corky gets any ideas.

The Mythology of the AP.

Once upon a time there was a news group called the Ass Packers. That time has come to pass. Until such time as this group changes it's ways and joins those that bloggeth on high (as often as possible), we must banish this Ass Packer group to do their work without the help of higher intellect.

Be it known to all that the Ass Packers are unwelcome here. Woe be unto those that be part of this group as they are known as bottom feeders. All give gas to them.

The AP just wants a subscription. Surely they don't want to get into a legal battle over the fair use doctrine. But it doesn't take much to write a summary. Let's also remember that the DMCA was signed into law by Clinton...one more reason that asshole doesn't and never did represent the people of the country.

How did the AP become aware of their stories being posted here. Is ther a DMCA sooge among us????

Is Niceville trying to extract some belated revenge???

who says Clinton did again~ ozark?

the boyscouts in Iowa?

Dennis gets hacked & AP gives us some flack...


Time for some Roberta Flack toons...

"How did the AP become aware of their stories being posted here."

My guess is that there's a way to see how people are getting to your site in the first place. And the fact that users here click the links and actually go read the AP stories gives AP A trail. So they pay some douche to check out every site that leads to theirs, to see if any of their own content is being posted here without their permission. Then a letter goes out.

JOE,

You don't know the law. As I've told you EVERY SINGLE TIME THAT I SEE YOU ON THE DR...you did NOT attend a snobby and prestigious law school like I did so just STFU.

Sincerely,

MONTELOSER(tm)




RCADE, POST prominent instructions so people do NOTHING BUT provide a link only. Spell out in simple terms how to do only that.

Maybe RCade could allow certain members to be "compliance assistants," where if we noticed someone posted an AP story we could quickly use Google News to find an identical one that wasn't written by AP, and replace it.

What exactly is DCMA? I seem to remember it being sold in bottles from the tailgates of pickup trucks on Texas 183 near DFW in the '80s.

"First the Nazi's came for the Jews...and I paid no attention.":

"Then the Nazi's came for the Gypsies...and I paid no attention."

"Then the Nazi's came for the Jehovah's witness...and I paid no attention."

"And then the Nazi's came for me."

"RCADE, POST prominent instructions so people do NOTHING BUT provide a link only."

Why not just totally remove the part of the posting page that allows you to cut and paste the article. Just leave the headline window and the link window.

USA I think they came for the homosexuals first.

"First the Nazi's came for the Jews...and I paid no attention.":

"Then the Nazi's came for the Gypsies...and I paid no attention."

"Then the Nazi's came for the Jehovah's witness...and I paid no attention."

"And then the Nazi's came for me."


Please.

Spare us the melodrama. It's a fucking question (right or wrong) of copyright.

...after they'd tortured and murdered the Trade Unionists and Socialists.

Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
Ich war ja kein Kommunist.

Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.

Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.

Als sie die Juden holten, habe ich geschwiegen,
ich war ja kein Jude.

Als sie mich holten, gab es keinen mehr,
der protestieren konnte.

"first they came for the communists and i didn't speak up because i wasn't a communist.
then they came for the jews, and i didn't speak up because i wasn't a jew.
then they came for the trade unionists, and i didn't speak up because i wasn't a trade unionist.
then they came for the catholics and i didn't speak up because i was a protestant.
then they came for me, but by that time there was no-one left to speak up."

Why not just totally remove the part of the posting page that allows you to cut and paste the article. Just leave the headline window and the link window.

Posted by danni at 2008-06-12 05:37 PM | Reply | Flag:


......as always for me, what Danni said :-)

But, still post specific instructions in plain English how to do a link...for us lazy asses (like me).

Why not just totally remove the part of the posting page that allows you to cut and paste the article. Just leave the headline window and the link window.

Posted by danni at 2008-06-12 05:37 PM | Reply | Flag:


......as always for me, what Danni said :-)

But, still post specific instructions in plain English how to do a link...for us lazy asses (like me).

Please.

Spare us the melodrama. It's a fucking question (right or wrong) of copyright.

Posted by goatman at 2008-06-12 05:40 PM


I'd say its more a question of a persons first amendment right to free FUCKING speech !!

So spare me the bullshit !!

Even local newspaper quote from the AP somethimes . It will definitely reduce the number of entries people will post, I can tell you that.

I'm pretty confident that it's legal to link to an AP story when you (a) write your own headline, and (b) write a summary of the story completely in your own words. It also helps to (c) give your opinion of the story when you post it.

But at this point, with AP hitting me with three more DMCA takedowns this afternoon, I'm not all that motivated to send them traffic. There are very few times when AP's the only one who has a particular news story.

...sorry about that double post.....cause I'd never want to piss anyone off that frequents the DR...hehehe.

The AP is sending us all to concentration camps and gas chambers?

Get a grip, people.

I *think* the guy who wrote it was a priest, maybe therefore homosexuals didn't count.

Still braver than Pope 'I vas ontly followingke ourders' Gregory tho'.

"RCADE, POST prominent instructions so people do NOTHING BUT provide a link only."

Why not just totally remove the part of the posting page that allows you to cut and paste the article. Just leave the headline window and the link window.
Posted by danni at 2008-06-12 05:37 PM

Best answer yet - if it's referenced with a link, deny posting the article field.

"But, still post specific instructions in plain English how to do a link...for us lazy asses (like me).

Posted by ride_on "

As usual, Rodent demonstrates his imbecility. This fucker probably needs instructions to boil water.

I thought GNN had similar problems. There was something about they had to include the whole article, together with author etc.

Their articles tend to be slightly dated. Maybe AP are pissed 'cos it's hot news that is often discussed here.

Apologies for the off-topic. Goatmans correct; this particular incident heralds not the clicking of jackboots down Pensylvania Avenue. It is the insidiously constant erosion of civil liberties, coupled with The Silence Of The People, that is the problem.

This fucker probably needs instructions to boil water.
FF for nullifidian.

They must be a bunch of dimwits seeing that by linking to a story (complete with the appropriate credit to them in the linked story) and posting a smidgen of the article is real just free publicity for them. But what the heck their PC slant is BS anyways so you have to take their stories with a grain of salt anyways.

This is consistent with how democrats act. When democrats see something they don't like, they can't let it stand, and will go to court and bleed you to death there. Freedom of Speech is the enemy of the left, they hate it.

And this is perfectly consistent with that.

Kuma

In the meantime, it would be helpful if users didn't link to AP stories as much as possible

Posted by rcade


If the story is by AP i do not read it anyway.

Biased news at its best.

Go MSNBC,NBC, Cnn, NYT, etc etc etc etc .....all biased news.

rwd

It is the insidiously constant erosion of civil liberties, coupled with The Silence Of The People, that is the problem.

Posted by BetterRed at 2008-06-12 06:08 PM |

Most correct BETTERRED

Here it is for the assholes who make childlike mentality comments like..."It an issue of Copyright infringement"

Amendment 1 to the Constitution of the United States of America

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances"

Hey! That was my post! I'm famous!

But I linked to the article in question. So what are they bitching about?

This is consistent with how democrats act. When democrats see something they don't like, they can't let it stand, and will go to court and bleed you to death there. Freedom of Speech is the enemy of the left, they hate it.

And this is perfectly consistent with that.

Kuma

Posted by Kuma at 2008-06-12 06:22 PM


This is a serious question.

Are you on Fucking drugs?

....................
then they came for me, but by that time there was no-one left to speak up."

Posted by BetterRed

You forgot one.

They came and forced you to decide,then they cut your head off,
while the left wing traitors who sold out this country watched and did nothing.


rwd

"FDA issues precautionary note on silver fillings"

Rense.com had this story days ago & now AP does & we can't post it here...

what a joke

They came and forced you to decide,then they cut your head off,
while the left wing traitors who sold out this country watched and did nothing.


rwd

Posted by rightwingdon


you talkin' about the gagged impeachment articles by Dennis?

Here is where I have a BIG problem with this. Since we are not trying to take credit for the works nor are we compensated for it where is the bitch?? I could see it if say one of us was trying to take credit for someone elses work and number 2 was compensated for said work. Seems to Me the AP has got their pants in a bunch for naught. Bunch of shit if You ask Me.

Larry Mohr

"where is the bitch?? "

Some sights get paid via the number of times you click the ad link. They want you to have to visit their site to read their licensed articles, so they can get the additional ad revenue.

will go to court and bleed you to death there
Posted by Kuma

Fucking A hes serious

The liberals rule of...

If you can't get the congress to act, sue them and hopefully you get a liberal judge to make up some new law.
and while you're at it play the knee jerk and dance the fringe to put them out of buisness.

rwd

"They came and forced you to decide,then they cut your head off,
while the left wing traitors who sold out this country watched and did nothing."

Posted by rightwingdon at 2008-06-12 06:29 PM



The only one who has sold out this country is the Fuckhead sitting in the White House right now.

Oh Jesus H Christ. Thanks for the 411 however Danforth.

Larry Mohr

Thanks Bani. If that ain't some hocus pocus mox nix bullshit I don't know what is. Drizzling shits if You ask Me.

Larry Mohr

It is the insidiously constant erosion of civil liberties, coupled with The Silence Of The People, that is the problem.
Posted by BetterRed

You sir are right on the money!
Spot on!

you talkin' about the gagged impeachment articles by Dennis?

Posted by Bani


Gagged by who Bani?

Its called self presevation.

Even the lowest form of animal knows THAT!


rwd

Even the lowest form of animal knows THAT!


rwd

Posted by rightwingdon


you mean gw?

Hey! That was my post! I'm famous!

But I linked to the article in question. So what are they bitching about?

Posted by rightisright at 2008-06-12 06:26 PM | Reply | Flag


I wonder if RCADE will figure out that these few neocon righties might not follow the rules on purpose.

Uni--Great link--can they sue?

I think the problem comes when folks paste the article or parts of the AP article for the thread.

What is weird is that you can paste the link to the AP story--but not the actual portions of the article--is that right?

Rcade--

It's been a while since I handled Intellectual Property claims.

But your Commercial General Liability Policy would have coverage for Advertising Injury.

The coverage is limited and the ISO forms probably didn't even consider this kind of event with what the AP is pissed about.

Now, the coverage is used mainly for defense of a lawsuit and they always reserve their rights (the carrier) as to whether or not they have any indemnity coverage.

Money--why would anyone want to bring trouble to Rcade? It's everyone's site to use and use well. Otherwise, it will be changed to something that folks won't like.

Nothing wrong with following rules (*gag* uuuuggghhhh!!!!)

Maybe the sign in could be changed --folks would have to sign in on the main page--automatically the rules comes up and "I agree" check the box pops up. It's an extra step to sign on--but not too hard to do --even for folks like me! lol

So how cheap can you get a license to use their articles?

What is anal is that even if you link to Fox News or CNN or any outlet--and the story is actually AP--it is a violation.

One thing I do remember was that these types of lawsuits were super duper expensive to defend.

Take a look at Napster or MP3 and you can see the expense rolling out. Or--Hard Rock and Planet Hollywood suit--the attorneys make out like bandits.

A real problem is AP cutting users off from data they present. I've battled this out with Google and conclude that it's in everyone's interests to comply and use their services to the furthest extent allowed, rather than deny ourselves anything particularly useful. We might be able to have a method of parsing and rewording to comply, which is better for us to do anyway since it's in our own words, but they surely cannot sue over third-party quotes, such as if Preznit spaketh stoopidity, or McClellan admitting a long-term "personal affection" with his favorite Bush.

Yes, Associated Press are sons of bitches and are acting in an over-protectionary manner, but it is their data unless it's re-written to whatever extent the law demands to avoid copywrite infringement. That said, how long until their data becomes public domain? Ever? You can use 15 seconds of music, but not a link and a sentence from an online source? Very odd..

I believe the issue could stem from the Retort using ads for revenue seen as competition to AP's revenue ads. I guess finding the maximum number of letters in succession reproduced from the original article - was that 50 max? - would alleviate AP's annoyance.

I suspect that moneywar is right - this stinks of a set-up. But let's not jump too hastily - the AP has information that we occassionally will find useful. Learning how to work around this might set better precedent for avoiding future shit-headed threats.

Pragma No Cache, RCADE, I brought this up before
but you said you wanted to allow it. You might
want to reconsider setting now that the cut and
paste is out of control and ends up on various
search engines.

T&C: We're all nobodies here, equal to each other in our nobodiness.

the nether: Speak for yourself. I like to think I'm just a little more nobody than the rest of you.

"Now look who thinks he's nobody!"

(punchline of ancient joke)

Speaking of jokes.

Are AP being a bunch of repressive asswipes here or wot?

Fuck AP.

Spud is boycott dem bums.

"takedown"?

"Shakedown" is more like it.

Be Well.

* sotto voice *

sorry fer shouting

html madness it was.

Be Well.

great shouts they were!

Next, AP sues the libraries. After all, they shouldn't be providing all that information for free, it's unAmerican.

Just noticed this page is linked to WhatReallyHappened.com's front page......

Should be a torrent of hits.

... with AP hitting me with three more DMCA takedowns this afternoon, I'm not all that motivated to send them traffic. There are very few times when AP's the only one who has a particular news story.

Posted by rcade at 2008-06-12 05:47 PM

That is easy enough to understand.
I sometimes see topics that interest me from a source that I know DR lefties like to rant on ...rather than content. So I check for other sources.
Easy enough...eliminate AP...their loss.

AP Files 7 DMCA Takedowns Against Drudge Retort

I wonder if Matt 'The Douchebag' Drudge got the same notices?

Probably not, as he serves the right-wing MSM like a good little lapdog.

No, because Drudge links are in compliance and
in full context with source, not cut splice paste
like this mess, therein is the issue. No one here
is going to help fund a legal battle.

Interesting - Liberal AP going after Liberal Drudge Retort. The left is imploding.

Also not only are the stories lifted here but so is the name "Drudge". The only thing original on this site are the dumb lib comments that burn my eyes.

Also not only are the stories lifted here but so is the name "Drudge". The only thing original on this site are the dumb lib comments that burn my eyes.

Posted by utastaff at 2008-06-13 07:50 PM | Reply | Flag:


Then why are you here?

You turds crack me up. You whine about a left-leaning site as if someone is making you post here.

Don't like it? Leave.

Congrats on the nod from Slashdot, RCade!

Maybe you should just buy an AP feed.

/runs

You turds crack me up. You whine about a left-leaning site as if someone is making you post here.

Don't like it? Leave.

Posted by COMMONSENSE at 2008-06-13 08:20 PM | Reply | Flag

Goes right to my earlier post.

if any of you have your own blogs, now would be a very good time to link to this story and push a boycott of ap - one of my posts was pulled (not that i care), but still - we are giving ap free advertisement - you'd think they'd be sending us dividends!

i'm going to post this at one of my blogs.

RCADE

Can we take an article and rewrite it in entirely in our own words? How much verbatim are we allowed before we cross over the AP threshold? 10 consecutive words? One half a paragraph? I'd be willing to post a story when I have enough time and rewrite it in my own words -- including the headline.

Also can we provide "links only" to any AP stories?

How about overseas media? Are do they have any agreements with AP? Such as the BBC? The Guardian? If not, can we use their articles?

Maybe if you posted a list of all the media sources NOT connected directly or indirectly in any way to AP we can obtain our articles there.