I acquired a box full of Italian opera disks a while ago. Not really my genre but they may be worth something.

I agree the sound from vinyl is more pleasing and warmer. Digital music sounds harsh sometimes.

vinyl has its own sound and characteristics.

The player is sensitive to loud volume which causes it to rumble. The needle also wears out in 2000 hours.

I have some stuff on vinyl which has its own sound and character. I have a tool album on vinyl and it sounds different from the CD but not inferior actually the equalization is great.

I don't understand the preference to vinyl. Snap, crackle, and pop. They are difficult to handle. More suspetible to acuoustic feedback, especially when played loudly. Quality turntables are expensive. All in all, not worth it. I believe it's a case of the emperor's new clothes. With a digital sampling rate of over 44 k used on CDs, and normal listening range well below 10 khz, I don't understand how the ordinary Joe can tell the difference. I've seen a reconstructed digital waveform juxtaposed with an analogue, and I can't tell the difference visually, either.

I do prefer vacuum tubes as the main stage amp, though.

Vinyl records making a comeback as frisbees.

I have a 1970 Fender Twin Reverb , vacuum tube era , more bang for the buck , does'nt fade like the solid state .

Vinyl does have a fuller more robust quality over CDs , just put on a pair of headphones .

Plus, the main reason to put out your music on vinyl, is that a vinyl record is a true physical record of the sound. It will live forever. No electricity or special equipment needed. You can listen to a vinyl record with a stick.
It's like the difference between writing something on a piece of paper and using a computer.

RIGHTNUT

I had one of those back in the day.

I went wrong selling vintage gear 'while I can still get something for it'. Almost everything like that I sold is now worth far more than I originally paid for it. Certainly more than I got for it by selling it.

Quit doing that about 15 years ago now, although my LA2A's and things like that are now being replaced by software from Universal Audio. Amazingly real.

I recently rented a 1950's era Fairchild compressor (2 of them stacked and the size of a shipping trunk). My engineer and I A-B'd it to my software version and couldn't tell the difference.

But, all the synths I sold (sob) like my Sequential Circuits Prophet T-8 (got $600 for it in 1988 - they now sell for over $6000, more than the $5K I bought it for new).

well then........ALL RIGHT........I can listen to records and maybe my ties will come back into style as well...........



and I still laugh at what I would tell my music appreciation classes the last few years when I would bring up some of my records...I would do a show and tell and talk about these flat and round black pieces of vinyl that we would cut a hole in the middle of and take a diamond needle and SCRATCH The sound right off the vinyl until you got little more than scratches...........

SO WILL MY 8 TRACK COME BACK TOO>.............

BLT, I really couldn't imagine being stuck in a classroom for an hour having to listen to you blather. I can't even stand to read 3 sentences that you wrote.

I have a Studer 2 track I record almost all of my mixes to before sending them to mastering. Nothing like analog. I still record basic rhythm tracks on a 2" Studer before dumping them to ProTools or Cubase to overdub on. Nothing digital comes close to analog in warmth or frequency response, although the 96K 24 bit I use for sending final mixes for movies sounds a heck of a lot better than 16 bit CD quality.

I wonder when they'll replace 16 bit with something capable of retaining more of the sound? It's about time they did, although most kids listen to mp3's that are compressed versions of 16 bit CD's and don't seem to care.

I still have about 700 LPs and maybe 200 45s, plus another 700 to 800 CDs. Some CDs sound swell, some sound awful. The CD pressing I own of the Pretenders' classic debut album, for example, sounds like it was recorded in a tin can, whereas the fidelity on my buddy's original LP version was exquisite. Most vinyl sounds consistently good, though it does tend to wear out. My copy of Little Feat's "Sailin' Shoes" (buy it for yourself now!) is so lovingly worn that I know exactly where the pops and cracks are, and I don't know what I'd do if I heard it on an iPod, all cleaned up and uncrackled.

I do like the full-size artwork of a vinyl LP, and from what I've heard from friends of cousins of acquaintances of mine, it's a lot easier to clean your reefer with a double-LP gatefold album than it is with an MP3.

CBOB

Of course you remember "Big Bamboo"?

I bought several copies of it in high school. All for one reason you know.... LOL

U talkin' Cheech & Chong? Sister Mary Elephant? Let's Make a Dope Deal?

That's Big Bambu, my brother!

QUALITY!

Vinyl has its own sound alright...

Less dynamic range.

Limited frequency response.

Surface noise.

And crosstalk.


Yeah vinyl is great, think I'll stick with digital.

CROB

Yep. All the papers went 'Up In Smoke' 30 years ago LOL

I hadn't thought of it in 30 years, although I can remember many of the skits...

"You VILL sign zee papers, old man!"
"I Will NOT sign the papers..."

bought several copies of it in high school. All for one reason you know.... LOL

~AU

Massive rollie?

Yup, Spud is actually do that too.

Anyone remember which Alice Cooper Album it was that had a pair of panties as the dust cover?

Remember Zepplin's 'In Through the Out Door' album with it's multiple covers of the same room, each one taken from the perspective of a different person in the room?

Half-mastered Picture Discs?

Ah, good times good times.

Be Well.

The CD pressing I own of the Pretenders' classic debut album, for example, sounds like it was recorded in a tin can, whereas the fidelity on my buddy's original LP version was exquisite

Spud freakin' luffs the original Pretenders album.

Almost every song on there is a Classic.

Private Life
The Wait
The Phone Call
Tattooed Love Boys.
Brass in Pocket.
Space Invaders.
Precious.
Kid.
Stop Yer Sobbing.
Mystery Achievement.

Chrissie Hynde was totally the Bitch Goddess of Rock and Roll.

She so kicked ass live.

Be Well.

Earache my eye!

Massive rollie?

Acapulco Gold ruled the day then....

Did you see my message about the 1980 live Queen concert in Montreal that was on PBS the other night? Hope you got it in time. What a friggin' band!

I saw them when they opened for The Who and had one single "Keep Yourself Alive", then again when they toured "A Night At The Opera", which was held in a 4000 seat theater/opera house. They absolutely rocked!!

A friend of mine was Cheech and Chong's opening act for years. Jonnie Barnett. Funny as shit! He told me a myriad of stories about those days. How he'd have to take on the crowd who were screaming for Cheech and Chong. He challenged one heckler to smoke an entire joint of some kick ass Hawaiian onstage. The guy bailed after a half a joint! LOL

Ah, those were the days....

Earache my eye!

By Alice Bowie

At least that's wot it sed on the 45.

Acapulco Gold ruled the day then....

Before the Ascendency of Columbian Gold and Panama Red.

Before some UBC agra grads figured out how to make BC Bud wot we used to call "Skunk" back in the day.

Did you see my message about the 1980 live Queen concert in Montreal that was on PBS the other night? Hope you got it in time. What a friggin' band!

Got it but sadly too late to be able to catch the show.

Double dangit!!

Ever see Dr Hook live?

Spud thought they were funny and good musicians.

(Hey play the guitars)
(I love to hear the guitars play)
(Oh I love to sing, I love to sing)

She was dancing when I seen her, in a Mexican cantina
In a neighbourhood they call La Zona Roja (hahahaha)
She had a child's smile, but she told me, in a while
It would take a lot of gold to get to know her (Oh)

Acapulco Goldie, donde did you go
You said you'd always hold me
But you run away with me Acapulco gold

(Oh that's a terrible thing you did)

I knew there's no-one cuter, then she said she was a puta
I said "What does puta mean?" Hmm and so she told me... (Oh no)
Then we went to meet a dealer, we smoked and drank tequila
Then the lights went out and I guess that's where she rolled me (just like)

Acapulco Goldie, por que did you go?
You said you'd always hold me
But you vamos away with me Acapulco gold
Yes, you run away with me Acapulco gold

(Oh Goldie)
(How can you do these things to me?)
(Where's my gun?)
(Who took my gun?)
(On no, I don't feel good)
(I don't feel good babe)
(Start the guitars)
(Start the guitars)

Be Well.

Ever see Dr Hook live?

Ya.

"Yeah vinyl is great, think I'll stick with digital."

Equals: Yea, go with your HD...we're sticking with analog.

Quick reality check: which offers wider interpretive range: vinyl or digital?

My parents (around 1975) bought a large (and nice) wooden cabinet/console to hold the speakers and music equipment of their then "state of the art" stereo components. I'm going to have to sell it as I sure don't intend to take it with me when I move.

It contains the following (removable) equipment:

Toshiba Stereo Cassette Deck - Model PC-22460

Yamaha Hi-Fi Stereos FM/AM Receiver with Auto-Touch Tuning and Dual Meters - Model CR-600

B-I-C Belt Drive Programmed 12-inch Turntable - Model 960 (or 980)

Two large built-in speakers

It's still in mint condition with all the manuals. Any suggestions where I might go to try and sell it? Or is it just too old to bother? Any market for this stuff?

Ebay.

Some people are into collecting vintage audio gear. Try the above link. It's free.

Thanks guys. I'll check them out.
I don't know how to use eBay to sell anything but I'll check out e-Bay's "how to" tutorial.

Does this mean that those little yellow inserts for the 45's are going to be necessary again?

Buy stock!

CHRIS

eBay's cool and all, but you'd really only be able to sell it to someone locally anyway, and it's not audiophile equipment. Shipping would make it cost prohibitive for 99.99% of buyers not in L.A. anyway.

With Craigslist (the link above) you can post for free in the L.A. area where someone can pick it up. It's not audiophile gear, so your not looking at thousands of dollars or anything. So, price it accordingly. Mostly you want to get it out of your house and get something for it, right?

It's too big to sell on eBay is what I'm saying, Chris

The only reason I suggested Ebay is that it is searchable and in a big city like LA Craigslist gets so many ads that you have to continue to repost just to get views.

Like AU says it's not the kind of collectible gear that someone is going to ship it across the country. But there's bound to be a few Ebayers in LA.

You did buy a camera didn't you? Take some pictures and upload them. That will help get noticed on either site.

OZARK

If she did an eBay auction she could list it as "Pick Up Only".

I had to do that here in Nashville with a heavy piece of studio furniture that would have cost as much to ship as I wanted for it. It took longer.

CHRIS

If you do need any help listing it on eBay I've been involved buying/selling in several hundred auctions there between myself and my wife.

Get the pics ready as OZARK suggested and write a description of it too.

You could always GIVE it away locally too. Might be less of a hassle.

I inherited my vinyl collection from my mother. It includes tasty tidbits such as Dr. Hook, Blondie, Crystal Gayle and a full collection of Led Zeppelin Albums. There's some really obscure stuff too, but I'd have to go to storage and look at it.

Since I don't have a record player, I keep them in climate controlled storage.

Have to agree with the others. Vinyl sounds richer than digital.

CHRIS

Don't give up on e-bay.

After my stepfather died I put a 1955 Studebaker President engine on e-bay, thinking that it would only be sold locally, considering it's weight and all.

Some guy drove all the way from Colorado to West Virginia to pick up the engine. He said he'd been looking for it for years and was thrilled to death to finally find it.

I'm just saying, it's a big world out there and you never know what people are looking for unless you try.

That was $20k before I even get to the the preamp

Lucky me I have tinnitus. CDs, cheap speakers, it really doesn't matter. Apparently I've saved a bunch of money. LOL

"Lucky me I have tinnitus."

My condolences.
I mean that.

Amati is credited with making the first modern violin.
Sonus Faber is the company he started ~500 years ago.
You should hear Joshua Bell on vinyl on my Amati Homage speakers.

CDs just don't have the detail in the highs, they cannot reproduce anything over ~11kHz without aliasing. Too bad the morons who set up the standard didn't care. Fucking record company pukes.

No wonder Zappa hated the "suits."

Gotta go, work calls.

2,000 albums and 900 7"s

I can't make a comeback because I never left.

Actually, your ears get used to whatever you listen to on a regular basis. All that expensive equipment is just jacking-off.

ZAT

Nice gear! I'm a bit of a gear hound myself, although it's recording studio gear. I'm a professional producer/writer/musician. People ask me how I get such 'warm sounding' mixes. I learned what audio is supposed to sound like from growing up with analog recording and playback. Vintage compressors and preamps help. The old axiom, "garbage in, garbage out" is so applicable in audio. Most people don't spend the time to make it sound great before hitting 'record'.

I do 96K 32 bit mixes, which are very detailed. I hate 16 bit CD format. The only thing I can do is dither them with an Apogee converter so all 16 bits are actually there before sending audio for mastering.

I like the way albums sound a whole lot more than digital.

One thing I've noticed in working with younger artists is that they've lost a lot of their hearing and are always wanting the highs boosted to ear screeching levels. I usually adjust them down after they leave (and wear squishy earplugs while they're there to preserve my own hearing which tests perfect with just a little loss (about 2 db) at 20K, which isn't too bad

Zat,
Nice kit! I'm running a VPI Scout with Dynavector cartridge and Sutherland phono amp, Vandersteen 2CE's and Anthem electronics.
Anyone who says there's no difference or that CD's are better is either sonically limited, uses music for only background noise, or has never heard a good quality vinyl rig.

life begins with 200g single sided vinyl

The CD pressing I own of the Pretenders' classic debut album, for example, sounds like it was recorded in a tin can, whereas the fidelity on my buddy's original LP version was exquisite

Spud freakin' luffs the original Pretenders album.

Almost every song on there is a Classic.

Private Life
The Wait
The Phone Call
Tattooed Love Boys.
Brass in Pocket.
Space Invaders.
Precious.
Kid.
Stop Yer Sobbing.
Mystery Achievement.

Chrissie Hynde was totally the Bitch Goddess of Rock and Roll.

She so kicked ass live.

Be Well.

Posted by dethspud at 2008-06-10 11:21 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

No doubt, Dethspud. I only knew of "Brass in Pocket" when I saw the Pretenders at Heatwave outside Toronto, Aug 1980 (along with Elvis C, Talking Heads' 9-piece funk supergroup, B-52's, Rockpile, Teenage Head, etc.), and they absolutely ripped the place to shreds. Chrissie was one bad-ass chick leading that band. Gawd, they rocked.

As for Dr. Hook - another band that surprised me. I interviewed them when I was an editor for my college newspaper in the early 80s, and they were funny, likable and steeped in the roots of American (and other) music. Yeah, they did a few lame songs, but despite my preference for harder stuff, I'll always have a soft spot for Dennis Locorriere and Ray Sawyer. Really cool guys.

Spud,
You no doubt know of the Tragically Hip, yes? Now THAT was a great live show.

Equals: Yea, go with your HD...we're sticking with analog.

Quick reality check: which offers wider interpretive range: vinyl or digital?

Posted by Danforth at 2008-06-11 12:42 AM

I was referring to TV on the first; turntables on the second.

Sorry for the confusion.

HDTV offers higher resolution of the same picture.

Digital audio offers no more than the recording, just without the bottom & top ranges.

Hey isn't going from Vinyl to digital akin to going from solid wood table(Vinyl) to a Formica Table(Digital). The Formica might last longer than the solid wood one but there's no integrity with Formica.

Larry Mohr

HDTV offers higher resolution of the same picture.

Digital audio offers no more than the recording, just without the bottom & top ranges.

Posted by Danforth at 2008-06-11 12:39 PM

HDTV offers higher resolution of the same picture.

Digital audio offers no more than the recording, just without the bottom & top ranges.

Posted by Danforth at 2008-06-11 12:39 PM

Sorry for the double post, our Barracuda Spam filter was having its fun.

Looks like I escaped Radio Prison long before you did.

Posted by Zatoichi at 2008-06-11 01:19

Interesting thread. I had no idea there were audiophiles in the Retort.

When I fist moved to Fremont I bought some crappy well-used equipment to compete online at songwriting. What I found is that guitarists will always want guitar - always. This is just a basic quality to musicianship - I'm sure violinists prefer their own instrumentation over others as well, and woodwind freaks go both ways. Purists cannot stand anything "competing" that doesn't feature one or more of their preferred instrument performed in a recognizable style. This isn't just "prejudice" but rather purposeful social engineering to cultivate hard-line purists and denigrate others. I've played with loads of different kinds of musicians - thrown weekend-long parties where the Moog Sonic Six, two didgeridoos, vinyl cartoon lp's and wasted beyond belief guitarists were all turned up to 11. :] I do have some cassette recordings from those 4am "sessions". Even a trumpet, sax duet over gravel percussion doesn't have much demand though.

It's very much akin to how vinyl characteristics are beloved above a mastered cd, regardless how poorly the stereo system makes everything sound.

I think that insertable earphones are deafening many people's hearing range, but it's possibly more civil than putting up with some freakishly wailing weekend party rock and drone.

..In my opinion, Digital brings a lot to the recording process.
On another note, I find it kind of amusing that people debate the analog/digital sound.
Most recording studios use lots of digital signal processing. Even if the mixing desk is analog, they'll use digital reverbs, harmonizers, compressors.
The audio still gets sampled and converted to digital, and most studios sample at 44.1kHz, same as the CD.
Posted by Roy_Batty at 2008-06-11 01:03 PM

I often perform everything analog and record live digitally. The only non-analog is if I use midi, but I also use a synch24 converter for an old MC-202.

Imo, off-line processing is just as powerful as an in-line rig, but it depends on your PC and the plugins used. Not everything requires Avalon compressors, but they probably help immensely. I use dual RNC compressors in an NCC-1701 rack (cheap but useful), but software such as T-Racks 24 provide impressive results.

As for me, i would prefer to hear the music live with all the flaws and character. Arguing about vinyl or CD's seems pointless. Either way what you are hearing is the production and your own amplification. The problem with most recordings today is that they are produced and "mixed" for shit systems, the reproductions have nothing to do with the real sound. They don't even care if they screw up in their normalization and it gets their pre's clipping cause most people don't even know.
What they need to do is publish the recordings master track and let people finish it them selfs to taste.

I use dual RNC compressors in an NCC-1701 rack (cheap but useful), but software such as T-Racks 24 provide impressive results.

Posted by redlightrobot at 2008-06-11 02:08 PM

redlightrobot

Check out the Universal Audio UAD card and plugins.

I have a plethora of vintage gear - LA2A's, Pultec and Neve EQ's. The reproductions on the software is amazing! I've started selling off the old stuff so I don't have to continue to replace tubes, etc.

I had a pair of 1950 Fairchild 670's I rented for a major label 'reproduction' project recordings from that era. The very units Universal Audio used for that particular plugin. My engineer and I A-B'd them to my software versions and they were identical.

Universal Audio reverse engineered the best units of each type available. They are absolutely amazing reproductions of the original units.

You can get a nice starter set of plugins and one PCI card for $1000. I've added all kinds of others like the stereo compressor from an SSL console (I've used the real ones a ton). Same result.

The reverbs are stunning. You can even set the kind of material on the wall (2 at a time if you want), and place the dry sound wherever you want.

I can't say enough good things about UAD stuff. One card will serve you for a good while. If you run out of processing juice you can just print the effect.

NCC-1701 Rack?
You used a rack that will be on the Enterprise?
Posted by Roy_Batty at 2008-06-11 02:14 PM

My sidstation is "The Captain", so perhaps you are on to something in my subconscious.

Often, I dream of all her crews incarnations gang-murdering Rick Berman. No blood spills because he has none, obviously.

redlightrobot

Sometimes just running a dry signal through one of the EQ plugins without turning a dial really makes the sound warm and fuzzy. With the EQ's added high end isn't brittle at all. Clear as a bell.

Anyway, just a suggestion if your budget allows.

I've loaded up one G5 with PCI cards and plugins. I couldn't live without them now.

Another big thing is getting a good word clock. I've used MOTU 2408's and others who have word clocks in them, but the sound was so much clearer, the highs and lows were tighter, and the stereo imaging improved just by adding a dedicated Apogee Big Ben word clock.

People ask how I get such 'warm' sounding mixes. I never tell. The old 'garbage in/garbage out' computer saying applies. Get it sounding good going in and then some tubeyness and good EQ's and VOILA!

I just sold my set of 8 NEVE channel strips. Didn't need 'em anymore after getting the UAD versions. Same with other gear I've unloaded recently.

Tons of great plugins for the price of one LA2A. Can't beat that.

AU :-)

Another big thing is getting a good word clock. I've used MOTU 2408's and others who have word clocks in them, but the sound was so much clearer, the highs and lows were tighter, and the stereo imaging improved just by adding a dedicated Apogee Big Ben word clock.
People ask how I get such 'warm' sounding mixes. I never tell. The old 'garbage in/garbage out' computer saying applies. Get it sounding good going in and then some tubeyness and good EQ's and VOILA!
I just sold my set of 8 NEVE channel strips. Didn't need 'em anymore after getting the UAD versions. Same with other gear I've unloaded recently.
Tons of great plugins for the price of one LA2A. Can't beat that.
AU :-)
Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2008-06-11 02:42 PM

I too love the sound of analog and the flexibility of digital. Most of my synths are analog - Oberheim 8, Chroma Polaris, MKS-30, etc, and I attempt to honestly record them as clean as possible. But timecode has and always will be their failing. I've had to stop submitting midi-style entries altogether because the damned machines never kept time together and often would lock-up prior to the third minute of recording. The funniest thing was when I submitted something for a Swedish competition (which they hated, btw), but the midi and subsequent conversion was so complex it lurches the pieces as if a conductor were at hand and rubato were written, flailing on the ocean floor like an eyeless gastropod. It makes me laugh, and maybe cry a little bit. It can be tremendously frustrating when you have a deadline and unreliable equipment, so I generally keep a loaded bong handy for when dicomboberation becomes too apparent.

For my digital recording I use a Sound Blaster Live! card with a SPDIF in/out circa 1999 - my recording computer is even older. There is no budget that can fix that!

If anything, a Big Ben sounds like a good work-around, but $1300 is too steep, like most "professional" equipment.

One thing that comes to mind is that you may have a synth sending MIDI Time Clock as well as your computer sending it out to the computer, thus jumbling it's brains.

Check if your software is set as the master MIDI clock and that your synths aren't sending out any MIDI clock info back to the computer.

Are you using a multiport MIDI interface? If so, changing the channels on all of them to Channel 1 would be helpful. Some multichannel synths send drum info on Channel 10 and that can cause problems.

Anyway, email me and I'll do my best to help you get it straightened out if I can.

We can discuss any audio related problems too. One things that made me tear my hair out was when I had audio recorded and inadvertently bumped the TEMPO of the song a beat or two. Put everything out of sync. But, that still wouldn't account for your rubatos, et al.



AU

The 'warmth' of vinyl is simply the noise made by the needle in the grooves and is NOT a true representation of what was laid down in the studio

Keep your shitty sounding vinyl. I have tons of it and I won't go back to it.

p.s To all you vinyl fans, I have a VHS camcorder you can have too.....very 'warm' picture indeed!

Anyone want the rabbit ears off an old TV I found in the attic? C'mon, you know that HDTV isn't nearly 'warm' enough for you!

Common,
Don't be a hater now just cuz you're deef...

The 'warmth' of vinyl is simply the noise made by the needle in the grooves and is NOT a true representation of what was laid down in the studio

Having worked on countless recording sessions that made it to vinyl over the years I heartily disagree. On the other hand I can tell you about too many times mixes later put out on CD sounded thin in comparison to the way they sounded in the studio.

"The 'warmth' of vinyl"

Uh, ... That's called "surface noise."

On a good record it is more than 70 db down.
Yes, a CD has more dynamic range.

16 bits

2^16=65536

20*log(65536)=96.33 db

But why not 24 bits?

Then you get 144 db.

And in fact studio gear does that and runs at 96 kHz, IIRC.

Goddam music business assholes.

But considering the number of people who can actually stand to listen to mp3, oh well.

I can't for the life of me figure out why the standard hasn't increased to 24 bit for CD's. They've only been out since Ross Perot was in high school or something...

There are 24 bit "enhanced" CD's (as I'm sure ZAT knows), but they're expensive to master and manufacture.

I'm only sharing my personal experience of thousands of recording sessions over the decades and the results on 16 bit CD's. Perhaps some of it is due to mastering engineers with everything over 8K shot all to hell. Who knows? I just know that CD's of stuff I produce rarely sound as full as what I delivered to the labels.

EVILPOLOCK

Interesting you brought that up.

Awhile back I saw screen shots of wave forms from pop recordings from 20 and 30 years ago compared to CD's of today.

The dynamic range of today's recordings was practically nonexistent (pop recordings not classical), while the screenshots of the waveforms of older recordings was pretty good overall.

I know about 3 great mastering engineers in the entire country who master like masters. The rest are tools with lots of LED lights IMHO. Classical music and other similar types are about the only recordings with any dynamic range at all.

"Anyone remember which Alice Cooper Album it was that had a pair of panties as the dust cover?"

That would be "School's Out".

Bought it at Franklin Music in Perimeter Mall in 1972. I was 14. Opened it up right there in the crowded mall and pulled out the disc wearing a pair of pink panties. Some old ladies were shocked...as was my mother.

Great record, tho.

The cover folded out resemble an old style school desk.

It's sad, really. Kids who don't attend concerts and have heard only CD's, and now mp3's, believe this stuff is high fidelity...it ain't.
It's mainly background music/noise.
I must say, though, HDCD is pretty good but I haven't heard SACD yet so I speak only of redbook CD.

My Levinson has the HDCD update and I have some Grateful Dead that makes the "HDCD" light come on.
I think it's an improvement, but it's not enough.

It is no longer possible to have studio quality in a transcription you hear at home. The format will not allow it.

But I must say I have a CD I made on my Studer from Zappa's "Guitar" that really sound great in the car.
I think it beats commercial CD sound.

sound=>sounds

sorry

"...so I speak only of redbook CD..."

A very outdated format. Maybe they don't want to change since kids download any music they want nowadays.

On a side note: I've had lots of discussions with A & R buddies of mine about downloading. I think I finally convinced a couple that the reason kids started downloading was because there was no A & R (repertoire) oversight going on. One good song and the rest pretty crappy. I've been burned myself paying $16 for a CD with the song I was familiar with and the rest crap filler.

Some 'old school' A & R guys, legends in the biz who signed as welnow legendary acts, have sent some of those same acts back to the studio when the songs didn't measure up.

To me THAT'S what's wrong with the music biz. Not enough Clive Davis's, Jerry Wexler's, Mo Austin's, etc. Real SONG men in the biz.

Sure, the emphasis on the bottom line via the corporatization of the music biz contributed, but without catalog (older product people still wanted to buy ie Beatles, et al) selling because the newer stuff sucked, their sales went down there too and the bottom line suffered even more. They never got that CD's sold so much because people were replacing worn out vinyl. So, the pressure to look to the quarter's profits superceded musical integrity. I don't buy CD's much anymore unless I know the other songs are great too - not just the single.

IMHO it's the industry's own fault for not caring about music anymore.

Or should I have said "about whom?"

You know: "We're only in it for the money."

Classical, Jazz, and Broadway are about the only areas where music is recorded and reproduced well anymore.

A great engineer can do wonders with two microphones placed in the right spots. Too many of today's engineers I work with went to some audio school and never spent time by the side of a real engineer who knows acoustics, mic placement, etc.

I got a real treat in the early 80's, ZAT

A friend of mine took over on drums when Bozzio quit for awhile. I went to a rehersal. Amazing musicianship. EVERY lick was written out in notation - even the drum chart that looked like some dude dipped a paint brush in ink and splattered it on the paper randomly. Zappa was one amazing musician and composer.

My only other connection was renting a new Yahama "Dream Machine" (the first touch sensitive keyboard with 'aftertouch' from Ian Underwood. I was a 19 year old kid he didn't really wanna talk to, but he did compliment me on the recording when he came to pick it up. Maybe he was being nice, but the film won a bunch of awards and I got a pat on the back for the music LOL

My Order:

Keith Jarrett
The Koln Concert
(My poor old copy is just worn out.)

John Abercrombie
Works

Jan Garbarek
I Took Up The Runes

Pat Metheny Group
Travels

Steve Swallow
Swallow

Eberhard Weber
Works

I don't need a record to listen to my current favorite music. I just ask my son or daughter to repeat whatever they just played on our Charles Walter.

"You know: "We're only in it for the money."

Nowadays it's "Absolutely Free".

our Charles Walter.

Posted by mOntecOre

Piano lessons are the best thing a kid can do with a little spare time.

Good for you!

I griped and griped on hot summer days when my mom made me practice on days my buddies were knocking at the door carrying baseball gear. Man, I'm SO glad she did. I've heard so many others over my life who've said they wished their folks had made them practice.

"normal listening range well below 10 khz,"

You must be deaf.

I am, but that is irrelevant. The highest note on a piano is ~4 khz. 99.99% of all music listened to is below that range. The other .01% is Yoko Ono shrieking, but who listens to that shit? Oh, yeah, zat.

The frequencies of notes that can be played on a piano range from 27.5 Hz to just over 4kHz.

Well, the Beatles had George Martin and the full financial weight of EMI in doing the remixes and remastering of their product - something too many recordings lack these days.

Those Beatle recordings you're referring to were remixed from the original 8 track tapes. Something most older recordings don't get the budget for.

It's also a matter of the mastering engineer and the laser on your CD player. Did you know that many '16 bit' recordings are actually only 14 bit?

Let me tell ya a couple of things about electronics on oil rigs.... LOL

GOAT

It's the old computer axiom I heard in 8th grade:

"Garbage in/Garbage out"

The difference between 16 bit/44.1 and 24 bit/96K is night and day. I'm saying they need to update the technology for the times. We're not still using 486 computers...

PS I'm not being snarky....Just sayin'.....

"The difference between 16 bit/44.1 and 24 bit/96K is night and day."

No screaming shit.

~50 db dynamic range difference.
High end up to 24 kHz; sorta. Still not as good as vinyl.
You get two data points per cycle @ 24 kHz, but it sure sounds better than aliasing noise above 11 kHz.

Why not 500 kHz? It's trivial to do.

I have an experiment processing billions of events an hour; Cosmic rays.

I guess you just have to have heard live music or live audio in a recording studio control room to understand how much is lost. And it doesn't have to be that way.

"...~50 db dynamic range difference."

Until the 'mastering engineer' gets the recording the 'engineer' ran through 3 compressors and an UltraMaximizer and totally wipes out all dynamic range LOL

My friends who are the best musicians all started with piano. Some have moved on to guitar, and some can play many different instruments, but they first played piano.

MONTE

I'm sure you've heard about the studies that say students who take music lessons do much better in almost every other category of studies....

I have heard that, AU. I'm not convinced there is a cause and effect, but either way piano lessons seemed like a positive step.

Cool ZAT

He has some great microphones there, especially that vintage AKGC12

They are the "Not garbage in" most essential element. Looks like his control room and main room are nicely tuned too.

MONTE

Music is math (and emotions)

I excelled in math. In fact, I can remember phone numbers from decades ago as well as I can remember a piano concerto.

The studies I refer to do say that music lessons improve other scholastics by a lot....

The last FM station I built, KMXX, now whatever is on 102.3 in Austin, had two peak limiters at the transmitter. That's it.

I can't remember the name of the maker, but they were in Utah, Ogden I think. The THD was 0.001%.

The turntables were mounted in 1500 pound sandboxes.

Mexican polka music.

I quit and went to work at UT building the TV studio for the College of Education.

Then I sat in the control room and did physics homework for three years while they never used it for anything but tours; "And this is our television studio."

Good to hear, AU. Makes sense to me. Cheers.

LOL ZAT

What a waste, eh?

Grieg's

Good stuff, AU. I'm happy to see info like that for lots of reasons, perhaps the least of which is the cost of the Chas. Walter. As you may know, not an inexpensive piano.

"What a waste, eh?"

Posted by AMERICANUNITY



And so much more.

I was just recalling my band days in the 5th grade; The first time the assembled pack of children were together in the band hall at Marlin, Texas (whatever- I forget) Elementary in 1960 , the band director, I can't remember his name either, but it will pop up, was passionate about his work, and we played a chord as an orchestra.

Chills.

I'll never forget it.

Then my parents, fed up with being virtually destitute retired military, (Dad was only a Lt Col who wrote the book, literally, but so what, right? Fuck the military. -Republicans and Democrats) and cursed with a geeky kid who built his first crystal radio at 5.

ZAT re: orchestras :

Few things can rival that sound and the depths of the soul it reaches. I also played with our orchestra (trumpet and piano). Got into conducting/orchestration as a teenager.

My greatest 'spine chills' were when I did a projects for Hallmark with the London Symphony Orchestra (100+ pieces - 99% Phil members) at Abby Road.

Just the sound of them tuning to the concertmaster sends shivers down my spine. The first time my baton hit the downbeat I almost cried (did have to suck it back) it was so beautiful and majestic. Granted, we were doing sweeping themes.

I spent several years music directing for artists who worked with 40 pieces, and working on film scoring stages in L.A. The film musicians in L.A. were mostly older Europeans who weren't so thrilled to be playing it seemed. Ho hum "show me" attitudes. Nothing compares to the times I've worked in London in the power and majesty of 100+ world class musicians.

A few times I've been to Prague (where film companies can save $$'s) I've had some good experiences. Those guys are great too if you're respectful of them and don't make them work for 8 hours and wear them out like so many do. They get used up a lot by greedy people. I laugh and joke with them, give them plenty of long breaks and lots of compliments. They respect that and have played really well. But, the London Phil was the tip of the top for me in my life chill-wise.

I've been doing pop music and songs mostly the last couple of years, but I'm doing a film score later this year for which they've got a good budget - enough to get to Prague again. I'm REALLY looking forward to that!

"London Symphony Orchestra (100+ pieces - 99% Phil members) at Abby Road. "

How sweet.

How truly sweet.

I heard them once at Bass Concert Hall.

Tight; Zappa tight.

Probably the best I ever heard, but I'm hardly an experienced listener of live high-end symphonies.

ZAT

I don't know squat about psychics. I'm somewhat in awe of you over that.

I've been in music since I was 5 and never looked back. Believe me, there have been times I wished I'd pursued something else (like when lawyers eat up more than I make from doing contracts). There have been many times I've felt like Mozart schlepping for dollars, but, averaged out it's been a happy life.

I got out of film composing mostly because of Zappa's 'suits', who'd show up en masse with 'ideas', never realizing their 'ideas' would cost me 2 nights of sleep so I could re-orchestrate on time for the next scheduled session. I spent a LOT of nights sleeping for 20 minutes in my clothes for days at a time. Just recently I've started taking on some film jobs again, but mostly using samples of the Czech Phil, and augmenting with a few real strings and brass. If you aren't John Williams' level you don't get budgets to do what you want. But, with technology I can create quite a believable sound. So far I haven't found anything else I enjoy as much as making music.

These days I'm writing a lot of songs. I have a really nice cut in Europe with a French artist named Mireille Mathieu, the largest selling female artist of all time. She and Josh Groban are talking about doing a duet of it for his next CD. THAT would be a nice payday. I'm praying... Some songs in movies, and a couple of major label things I'm producing of my songs as well. Fingers crossed I won't have to live in a welfare nursing home in my old age. But, I had to quit doing the studio musician thing so I'd have creative juices left to write with. Took some 'biting the bullet' to get started, but now my royalty checks are starting to get pretty darn good. Last statement I had plays in 37 countries. One giant hit would set me up for life though. So, I keep trying....

"I don't know squat about psychics."

Neither do I.

Probably the best I ever heard, but I'm hardly an experienced listener of live high-end symphonies.

Posted by Zatoichi

Other than as an audience member at L.A. Phil and other cities symphonies me neither. I did get to play with a few good orchestras around the country when I was going to be a concert pianist. But, that life lost it's appeal as I got a 'backstage' look at the pretense of the classical musician world. When a jury of 4 'experts' can't agree (with fake English accents) how Rachmaninoff intended a passage of the Rach 3 be played I said to myself, "these are a bunch of pretentious and pompous jerks". I lost interest. I think I had too much of a bug to write my own music anyway, not be tied to a piano for 8 yours a day the rest of my life.

"I don't know squat about psychics."

Neither do I.

Posted by Zatoichi

Ahhhhhh, a humble genius. How refreshing!

Do you have a 'throwaway' email address? I'd like to send you Mireille's cut of my song.

"Do you have a 'throwaway' email address?"

no

Oh, ZAT, I see the error of my ways LMAO!

Psychics. OK, that was not even a Freudian slip.

Physics.

That's better!

BLT, I really couldn't imagine being stuck in a classroom for an hour having to listen to you blather. I can't even stand to read 3 sentences that you wrote.

Posted by TFDNihilist at 2008-


maybe you are too fuckin stupid to comprehend REAL music and maybe you should stay with the nonsensical shit you probably listen to.....

and for your information, it was a class that normally had to be closed because of reaching the maximum amount of students even though I started with roughly the era of gregorian chant since that was basically the beginning of modern notation all the way through current popular styles. so it is apparent that you would be too fuckin stupid to be allowed in .....

I don't need a record to listen to my current favorite music. I just ask my son or daughter to repeat whatever they just played on our Charles Walter.

Posted by mOntecOre at




I normally hate each and every one of your posts..
this one, however, is about as sweet as it gets.

I'm sure you've heard about the studies that say students who take music lessons do much better in almost every other category of studies....

Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2008-06-11 06:40 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e


I have heard that, AU. I'm not convinced there is a cause and effect, but either way piano lessons seemed like a positive step.

Posted by mOntecOre at



MOZART EFFECT for one......studies show that the majority of doctorates given out are to people who have music either as a undergraduate degree or minor.....my own doc from houston medical center was a music minor and tells me all the time that he had a much better time in the music library than in the lab, but that doctors were in his family for generations and in fact his son just completed the doctorate of trumpet performance at the U of miami and he is now in NYC trying to make it there.......

and another thing.......I had a copy of an interview with the admissions chairman at harvard back when I needed it in recruiting students and he said....

they mark out tons of students because of grades and then they cut it down to people with grades, sats, and EXTRA CURRICULAR activities and they ALways look at the arts more than any other activity and in particurly.....MUSIC.....
and also.....almost every major and many minor colleges will give stipends just for being in marching band, for instance.....so that can always help even if they arent majors.......

in particurly


hey I didnt say anything about typing skills or spelling.........

I normally hate each and every one of your posts..
this one, however, is about as sweet as it gets.

Posted by bushlovertwo at 2008-06-12 01:43 AM | Reply

Whaaaa? Montecore is easily the funniest guy here. All those years at cruel(before it died) paid off.

Really, does playig the accordian count, or is that just in Minn-ah-soda?

BL2

You're right about the docs. I've had many in my life who were exceptional musicians. One orthopedic surgeon I had was going to be a concert pianist until he cut a tendon near his thumb and it didn't heal well enough for him to continue.

I know my comprehension skills were vastly improved, as well as math and who know what else? It also taught me a very valuable lesson in "progress not perfection", i.e. if I just start something, no matter how insurmountable it seems and continue to make progress eventually I'll succeed. My first big lesson in that was Grieg's A Minor when I was 12. Looked like monkeys threw ink on papaer. I was scared s**tless. But, starting with the right hand in measure 1, then the left, then putting them together and continuing that method it was knocked down to a manageable size and 2 months later I was performing it in front of an audience from memory. I learned more than music with that experience....

AU :-)

I was just recalling my band days in the 5th grade; The first time the assembled pack of children were together in the band hall at Marlin, Texas (whatever- I forget) Elementary in 1960 , the band director, I can't remember his name either, but it will pop up, was passionate about his work, and we played a chord as an orchestra.

Chills.

I'll never forget it.

Posted by Zatoichi


and I remember almost every first concert of my beginners.....when I did that level...it was always the worst acting few moments of thier career because they couldnt sit still just awaiting that moment when we would crank up hot cross buns......that level was rewarding because of thier entusiasim and it is a close match to the thrill of 'enigma variations' in carnegie hall or 'marriage of figaro' in salzberg.
hot cross buns and jingle bells after three months was that exciting to them and I really miss that.....

Really, does playig the accordian count, or is that just in Minn-ah-soda?

Posted by OzarkAggie

Sure.

OK time for another accordion joke (I own one but I"m gentleman enough to leave it in the box.....OUCH!):

Definition of perfect pitch? ?????

Throwing an accordion in a dumpster without hitting the rim.

Bada boom!

so AU and ZAT......let me ask you this question..

I probably will win because you too might have been supposed to be in these places.

but how any concert halls have you been THROWN OUT OF..
I have been asked to leave the upstairs part of carnegie hall.....parts of kennedy center.
jones hall in houston showed me the door and in LA it was the hollywood bowl.....WHY did these places ask me to leave?
when I was there to see an artist I would just walk backstage as if I belonged there to talk to them
in NY it was because I wanted to see the dressing room where lenny and all the others sat before they went out...kennedy center because the ny phil jazz band was practicing and I wanted to get closer......
so I am now looking for someplace around minnesota and florida to complete the map......

oops .....forgot about the old houston music hall to get back and see my bud.....DOC after a carson show and the astrodome after al hirt had played for something there......

BL2

You would have loved to have me as a student.

Piano's been my main instrument since I was 5, but I could hit double high C's in 6th grade on trumpet. I bet my band teacher $5 I could. He didn't believe me until I did, and then he paid up (what a great guy he was anyway).

He later took over the high school orchestra and we remained friends until he died about 4 years ago. I knew him almost 40 years. He was my Mr. Holland. Incredible musician in his own right and full of praise if you did a good job.

You music teachers rock. Thank you too for doing what you did BL2. You have no idea how many lives you changed. I probably would have ended up as a concert pianist had it not been for the experience of playing with orchestras and the interest that sparked for all that followed in my career.

AU :-)

PS Mozart was a Democrat - all the great composers were *grin*

montcore......all political bullshit aside.....your children will be better students with musical training. it is a statistical fact.
another thing is that music students are better at shapes and things like that. in other words, they are better able to 'see' shapes and think on thier own.

the best example that I still give today is this....

take an english class and tell them that all 30 of them will be writing a report and they will ALL have to take thier pencils and all together at EXACTLY the same time .....start and write each LETTER the same height and length and EACH one of them with the EXACT same shape from beginning to end and when there is a period or puncuation, they have to dot the I's with just the right amount of force and then sometimes to do it WITHOUT SEEING IT BEfore hand......as in sightreading......wont happen in english....but we ask our music students to do it each and everyday.........

I wanted to see the dressing room where lenny..

BL2

I don't know why you were thrown out, but I have to tell you I knew who you're talking about. Met him at Tanglewood. He drove an MG and smoked a pipe. I did a two week young conductors class there with him once upon a time....

Doc I met in 7th grade when he performed with our high school orchestra (of which I was a member). He showed me a couple embesure tricks and I asked him about doing music for a living. He said I should go for it. I'll never forget how nice he was to me. I saw him years later when I was on the Tonight show with an artist and thanked him.

Hope you don't get thrown out anywhere else. Maybe they can spot a rabid conservative from a mile off? LOL

oh yeah.....a musical paragraph is almost EXACTLY like an english paragraph......a piece of music CAN have an introduction, a main thesis or paragraph, a coda.....and each section will have phrases and half phrases that can be linked right along with english assignments.....for instance....why is the musical sign for a breath mark....a comma....just like in a sentence?? because it basically does the same thing.....

AND MATH.......I have had many students who learned fractions faster because of music BEING math......and there are many ......MANY mathematicians who are musicians.....

AU :-)

PS Mozart was a Democrat - all the great composers were *grin*

well of course he was......what better definition of a democrat than someone who was a womanizer and a drunk and a pool player.....LOL

thanks for the compliment.
I too met doc through high school band and went to the show twice to see him....what a great guy....

by the way.....if you go to bobodneal.com.......you will see a picture of him and several of us. I am not worried about a pic of me getting out because I was 16 at the time......and as all of my women will attest......I am much better lookingnow.....

REPUG

I told GOATMAN earlier tonight that they not only remastered the Beatles catalog, George Martin (and his son) remixed all the multitrack sessions from the original 1" multitrack tapes. Perhaps the piano stool was left up in volume on the new version, but that track faded on the original. A scraping stool would have plenty of frequencies you can hear from 250K and up. That's my take on it....

Nice buy by the way!

last post......one of my assistants was with me in the conductors suite.....right before the door opened and this little yankee new yorker yelled at us.....he took a pic of me in lenny's shower and as was pointed out to me after when I said.....here I am standing where bernstien would shower after a concert.....I was reminded by several that it was also a place where lenny PROBABLY did more than just take a shower......LOL

BL2

Cool, I'll check out the pic.

We were talking about the same Lenny, right? He was a great guy to be around too. I only got two weeks one summer at Tanglewood in a small young conductors class, but he was really fun and helpful. Gave us all rides in his MG.

I have to hit the hay. I hope you're visited by "The Ghost of NeoCon's Past" and wake up a moderate LOL

Cheers to good memories and music and music teachers..

AU :-)

I am heading to NYC this week to buy up some more of the vintage stuff, I'm good friends with a buyer at KIMs whose got some stuff held for me.

and I'm looking to invest in an Linn LP12 with Ittok arm.

I'm also going to permanently borrow my dads magneplanars =)

If this thread is up tomorrow Id love to chat more about it, so much more interesting than politics!

RePUG

Ya, great to chat about something else isn't it?

Have a great trip to NYC.

"jones hall in houston showed me the door"

Good riddance.

How's life at the Chronicle these days, Rogers?

BLT was the guy thrown out of the Paramount in Austin during Ravi Shankar's last concert.

It was really embarrassing.

(It really happened. I don't know if it was BLT, but some moron actually walked up to the stage, started screaming and had to be removed.)

Fascinating thread, guys. Thanks to AU, Zat and BLT for the enlightenment. I don't know SQUAT of what you're talking about, but I love music like life itself and can't imagine a day without it. I never took any lessons or performed anything other than to play my roomie's drums for a brief period in college, and I've always regretted it. Parents never pushed me, and I drifted into other interests.

Still, I did compensate somewhat by spending many years as a radio DJ and pop music critic/writer for several publications. Got to know lots of cool music people. Meanwhile, my little pain-in-the-ass bro formed a band that put out several records, had a book written about them, got a nice review in Billboard, got played on MTV (you remember MTV - used to play "music"), etc., and all I could think was, SHOULDA BEEN ME!

BLT was the guy thrown out of the Paramount in Austin during Ravi Shankar's last concert.

It was really embarrassing.

(It really happened. I don't know if it was BLT, but some moron actually walked up to the stage, started screaming and had to be removed.)

Posted by Zatoichi at


it wasnt me at a shankar concert, I can tell you. but the guy probably went mad with that same sound OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER........

CBOB..good post. I cant imagine what I would have done if I had not gone into music. it consumes my everyday life and sometimes I wish that I didnt have those melodies and things rumbling around in my head all the time and then not having the capability to just sit down and write them out.....ala mozart and others......I call it the saleri effect......lol

my buy of a lifetime:

at a yard sale last year, this man had about 250 cassette tapes, mostly (about 200) "grateful dead" recordings from concerts dating back to the mid-sixties - he said i could have both crates for $150. and i said, "i don't know..." - i went through them with a fine tooth comb and found a couple (most were double 90 minute concert series) from concerts i'd been at in cali. he said, "oh what the hell - you can have both crates for $30!"

they are ALL in the most excellent condition - the person who made them took the time to label each one with the popular dead logo and i'm thinking about having them put on cd's. they're dated and have the location of each concert they're from.

NANC's a DeadHead?
Whodathunkit?

Nanc,
Pioneer makes a GREAT deck for playing tapes so that you can record them to CD and still get "tracks" on the recorded CD. Most cassette decks don't do the noise reduction well enuff and you end up with one long track 1. There are 3 models...the CT-07d and CT-05d and the CT-606dr. You should be able to find one of em around for maybe $100-150.

Repug,
So very true. I had Teac 6300 reel to reel way back when and at 7.5 or 15 ips it beat up on any turntable I'd ever heard.
The new Aja IS great. I also have an original (circa 1978?) that's just about in pristine condition and it's very comparable though the new pressing is better.

Love the Dan, stone-cold eggheads or not. They were all about the sound. I love the sound.

I've worked with Studer reel-to-reels. Beautiful things.

To paraphrase Robert Plant,
Does anybody remember splicing?

See this is why the 70s were so laid back, nothing to do but light up a joint and listen to music on the audiophile system of choice, no politics, no arguments , just hemostats, brown clothes and great LPs.

The Cuervo Gold, the fine Colombian...

Skate a little lower now...

A friend of mine played drums on AJA.

Funny story he told was that they had several drummers play on each track then selected which one they wanted to use.

Remember these?

Sure!

Lava lamps too? Black lights?

AU, that's hilarious. I'll have to read the whole article later -- looks great. Emerick is a legend. My first album purchase (age 12?) was Badfinger's "Straight Up," which was produced partly by Emerick, partly by George Harrison, and partly by Todd Rundgren. Not really sure why all the changes, but anyhoo, I still dig that album.

I think everything Apple did in the early days was a bit discombobulated.

Emerick is amazing, the guy engineered Sgt Peppers at age 20!

I cant wait to read his book.

I went to Yes's "Close To The Edge" concert when I was in high school. Since I'd already been in the recording studio and cut an album with my rock band I was fascinated with all the mixing gear on the arena floor. I wandered up and asked the nice engineer about a couple of things. He let me hang for a little while by the house mixing console he was running. He introduced himself as "Jeff". I only found out later it was Mr. Emerick himself (he produced that album). He couldn't have been nicer to a long haired high school kid.

If my memory serves me correctly he was the first guy to ever mic a kick drum on Ringo's set.

The stories about Abby Road/EMI are fascinating. It was the "old guard" - the guys who were like NASA scientists - vs the "new guard", guys like Emerick.

What a period in music recording history!

First guy to ever mic a kick drum is how I intended that ..

Sorta the story, Actaully Emericks predecessor was Norman Smith, he was more of a white coat guy. But "Normal" as the boys used to call him did indeed Mic the bass drum, with a D19, and an overhead.

Emericks first album as lead engineer was Revolver, so Normal did a good job on Rubber soul.

Emerick added the 3rd snare mic to Ringos kit. From there Emerick really started to experiment more on Pepper.

Ah, you're right REPUG

I just recall the story of how the 'guys in ties' - the old guard - stormed out of the studio in protest.

"No no no!!!" You CAN'T do that!! (which is where I think Lennon/McCartney got the idea for that line from a previous such experience).

Ha ha, yeah or maybe they got tired of sitting around all day waiting for them to show up and track then have them roll in at 7pm to get ready to start a days work.

What amazes me is that at the time they were doing Pepper, Pink Floyd was recording Piper in the next studio at AR. I believe there was even some minor cross collaboration.

I dont know what stars lined up for that event but it had to be the most prolific location and moment in recording history!

George Martin should be listed as the 'Fifth Beatle' in every credit for the band. Without him they'd have probably ended up disappearing after awhile. He not only let them experiment, but was so responsible for many of the innovative musical ideas they had.

(I'm very sure you already know that but I just wanted to say it :-)

The groundbreaking nature of their efforts from Revolver on were what, in my view, kept them relevant and cutting edge. The Beatles didn't change with the times. The times and music changed with THEM. I can't think of another band who did that. Can you?

I just remembered the tall 16 track AMPEX machine at a 2nd story studio in Hollywood (Selma and Vine) called Mystic, owned by an Englishman named Doug (Moody??). The machine Led Zepplin recorded most of their greatest works on. Les Paul oversaw it's construction as the story goes..... I think he told me it was the first 16 track 2" machine built. Man, there's little that sounds as fat as 16 track 2". Back in the day we used to slave a 16 track 2" machine (for rhythm tracks) to a 24 track 2" machine (for overdubs). WHAT A FRIGGIN' FAT SOUND!!

I've got a real soft spot for Stuart Sutcliffe as the 5th Beatle, as he was the actual 5th Beatle when they had 5 members playing in the band until 61'. Stua actually name dthem the Beetles and was John's one true best friend in life - outside Ono.

But undoubtedly Martin was the steward of their success. Without him they may have been another Dave Clark 5. And his string arrangements will always be influential in classical composition and his dry wit and humor lead to great art through the White Album, where he became much less of an influence.

Here is a funny quote from Ken Smith

"And the sessions were long, long. Mainly, because of the way Abbey Road was: It was always booked to start at 2:00 pm. Quite often, they wouldn't arrive until much later. IF they showed up. I mean sometimes they didn't. We would always know if they weren't going to turn up because the fans weren't outside -- they always knew. It was amazing. You could go stick your head out the front door, Oh, the girls aren't there screaming, looks like they're not coming in today, we might as well go home.'"

Did you happen to catch the PBS radio interview with Pete Best? Very interesting. His mom had a 'club' in the basement of her house. The Beatles first gigs were there. Sad story the way Best was fired. He showed up for a gig and his drums were gone. The boys should have had the balls to tell him to his face.

Nice mic pre!!

(drool)

and relatively cheap to boot. I may get a recoding amp from Oliver too!


What is your main signal path?

Im still trying to decide on main vocal mic.

Neve 1084> Avalon > O2R96 > RME > Computer

I mentioned I still mix to a Studer half track before digitizing. Can't seem to wean myself from it. But, I'll tell ya, some of the plugins are amazing and that may go too someday. Getting a little hard to find parts when needed.

I should sell the darn o2R. I've only been using 2 channels for a couple of years. I need it because I still use a handful of modules, but I suspect I'll lose them in the near future too. I've been using virtual instruments and synths mostly for a year, but I just can't seem to want to lose my Roland and Trinity modules. Some of the sounds are amazing. Since I do quite a lot of film work too the atmospheric sounds come in really handy. But, the virtual synths are sounding incredible too. Something about something I can touch keeps me using outboard gear some. I have been selling my vintage compressor/limiters though. Still holding onto one LA2A and a handful of others. Time will tell....

As to vocal mics, it depends on the voice.

I have a U-47 FET, U-87 (Fred Cameron conversion), and a couple more. One of my favorites though is a Soundeluxe. It was designed by a Neumann freak who bought the old Record Plant complex in LA. He had a warehouse full of old Neumann mics and designed his on what he did and didn't like about some of them. Anyway, the model I own has 4 patterns on it, which makes it very handy all the way around. Cardioid, Supercardioid, OMNI, and figure 8. It just has an incredible sound. On most vocalists I use it on I only have to put a high pass filter at about 150hz and rarely add more than a db at 5K in the mix. Always sounds amazing.

The Neumanns are, of course, great mics, but I'm not one to pop up a U-87 everytime someone comes to OVD vocals.

I have two rooms only at my home studio. A nice control room and a large OVD room big enough for a string section. Tracking I do elsewhere. I don't want to be in the 'studio business'. It just seemed like a good move many years ago to build it at home so I could do all my overdubs and mixing at home if I felt like it.

Still, if I have a really nice budget I'll mix somewhere else - expecially if I'm doing a major label project and the 'suits' need a dog and pony show.

My favorite desk to mix on is an SSL. Even though it's solid state, with nice vintage outboard gear it's got a really nice sound. I track rhythm on a 2" Studer and then dump it into ProTools later. Drums and bass just sound better to me that way.

REPUG

I you can find one, the Soundelux offers an amazing microphone for the $$

The one I bought was very reasonable when I purchased it years ago. It's not the one that comes with a powered mic pre. The one I have is a U-47 FET design.

You should check out their microphones. Even the lower prices ones (under $1000) sound amazing.

BTW, I bought a pair of RODE condenser mics a few years ago that sound every bit as good as Neumanns for acoustic guitar, overheads, etc. Cheaper too. Come in a hardshell carrying case as a pair.

OH Man I'm going to have Lots of questions for you in the coming weeks. I wish I had more time to discuss today, but alas work is beckoning. I'm really glad rcade put this topic up!

I will say that I have been giving the Pearlman mics a good hard eye, Im just really getting into having a totally high end 2 channel path with great I/O after dinking around with a lot of prosumer stuff for so many years.

Ive been thinking Pearlman -> Tab V72 -> Purple MC77 ->Lavry Blue ADC as a vocal chain into Sonar.


im interested in more of your opinion on the plugins, so much much more to come...

I don't know how many channels you'll be recording at a time, but the RME interfaces smoke. REALLY good mic pres too!

The whole idea is to get a really good, clean signal into your computer. From there it's all about having smoking plugins - like I posted above.

Take a look at the "Producer Pack" from UAD. About $1000. More than enough to start. All REALLY high end sounding. The reverbs are to die for too!

One more thing REPUG:

I've bought a LOT of high end mic pres in my time. Here's the deal...

It's all about the mic. I've A-B'd a lot of units. Some of the 'best' ones - the $2000 jobs - didn't make it sound any better. Some units 'color' the sound, so you think you're getting something for your money.

If you use good microphones and get a good clean signal into your computer - that's the most important thing.

Check out the Soundelux microphones I mentioned above. You put your money there for a really great vocal mic (and one that can serve multiple uses with multiple patterns) and you're 99% of the way there.

What AD/DA converter you use makes a lot of difference too. For the money, RME makes the best stuff out there. I don't know if you're multitracking or not, but if you're recording only a couple of channels at a time one of their lower priced units would work fine. They have really good mic pres, and plenty of ins and outs depending on the model and your needs. My Fireface 800 has worked really well. 8 channels of analog (if you're not using a digital console with ADAT lightpipe). I have 24 channels of lightpipe coming from my O2R96, so I needed the 24 channels of lightpipe at the time. But, like I mentioned earlier I'm hardly using more than 2 audio channels these days and 'mixing in the box', so an elaborate console like that isn't necessary in this day and age.

Bottom line: Spend your money on a great mic, great interface (like an RME with mic pres), and great plugins. The rest is smoke and mirrors. For as many $2000 mic pres and compressors as I've bought in my time, to my ears the mic pres on my console delivered just as clean a signal. Waste of money to buy more than you need. In the UAD "Producer Pack" you get LA2A and UREI 1176 - THE compressors of choice. NOTHING gives a vocal more than an LA2A, and the benefit of using plugins is that you can create as many as you need. With my real LA2A I only have one. With the plugins I can create as many as I want. VERY nice and handy!

thankx, evilpolock - i have a friend whose son has a recording studio and i'm thinking about taking them to him - i must find out how much first.

now, if i could get them all onto cd's i could put the tapes on ebay!

i love the dead.

i am not a deadhead!