One million barrels is what might today be flowing from ANWR

...into the hold of a supertanker to be sold to China.

"which would cause the price of gasoline to fall "50 cents a gallon almost immediately."

Posted by kerrin57 at 07:09 AM | 2 COMMENTS

YEAH!

WOW! A whole fifty cent drop to $2.50 a gallon?

Thats CHEAP!

Sincerely

The Oil Industry Assholes!

Don't worry, we are only passing along the increase in our costs to the American Public.

Plus a corresponding gouge markup on the higher costs.

Sincerely,

The Oil Industry

"One million barrels is what might today be flowing from ANWR if in 1995"

YEAH!
Operative word "might"!
Coulda', shoulda', woulda' all right! This seems to be a place where more and more of these ardent "conservatives" are retreating too ---- conveniently forgetting of course that they have had almost exclusive control of the reigns for well over a decade now!
One could equally say that we "might" not have had 9-11 or this oil problem if we had "stayed the course" Carter had set 20+ years ago!

"ELK POINT, S.D....a hard-fought victory that keeps alive the county's chances of landing the nation's first all-new oil refinery in 32 years."


Yippee --- another refinery that will run at half capacity!! There hasn't been a single refinery in America in 32 that's run 60% of its capacity!

Red...you are slipping...you forgot to denigrate George first.


Here...you may have missed the irony of Chuck's two faced position. Anwar =$.01.... Saudi increased production= $.50.

The oil prices reflect more than supply. Many factors have spiraled into a whole complex set of circumstances driving the price of fuels/oil.

If we had drilled that whole scenario may have been averted.
But...who knows. We are in very complex economic times...it is a world economy now. I don't think the experts are sure.

Yippee --- another refinery that will run at half capacity!! There hasn't been a single refinery in America in 32 that's run 60% of its capacity!

Posted by Redneckville


Link please to support that assertion?

Red,

You haven't proven your assertion that "not a single refinery in the US has operated at over 60% capacity"

I can point to one right now that is operating at over 60% capacity which makes your assertion false.

You haven't proven your assertion that "not a single refinery in the US has operated at over 60% capacity"

YEAH!

You are right!

A Reduction in Total Refineries over a ten year period resulting in an annual increase in refining output "doesn't prove anything"!

Or in other words, a 25.11% DECREASE in the number of refineries (in America) resulted in a 108% INCREASE in output (in America) over the same time period ------ "doesn't prove anything"

There's no Foolin' you is there, Scarlett!

"108% INCREASE"

I think you mean roughly 10%. You are looking at the numbers but missing the possibility of other factors. You fail to take into account there technological improvements and the expansion of the existing refineries. They have pushed to become more efficient and expand. I find it kinda funny that you whine about them being all about money but then you make an assumption that they are running things very inefficiently. You would think they would know better then to throw away that extra cash on operating more refineries then they need, but i'm sure you thought of that already.
You do not have the information that would be necessary to support your conclusion, if you happen to run across something that says no upgrades have been done in the last coupla decades that would boost productivity then you can try again.

We are in very complex economic times...it is a world economy now. I don't think the experts are sure.
Posted by kerrin57

Yeh, and how's that "world" economy working out for us?
We aren't even getting kissed, just reamed.
Higheest unemployment rate in years, highest gas prices in years, dollar is in the crapper etc.
One last thing....the "experts" should know, as it is their job to know

"There hasn't been a new refinery built in the U.S. since 1976, the result of extremely tight environmental restrictions, not-in-my-back-yard community opposition, and the high cost of new construction."

YEAH!

And don't forget $10.00 barrel oil.

But as usual, the industries reluctance to invest in itself due to "high cost of new construction" is "Our Fault" (according to a man who has been consistently on the "Wrong Side of History" for over 12 years running)!

Fact is NOTHING has PREVENTED a New Refinery from being built in America other than the oil industries refusal to build facilities that in turn didn't pollute!
In addition to this, the best people to decide how their community is to develop are the people who have the largest investment (i.e. Homeowners) not some industry who comes in and says they should be able to do what ever they want (i.e. industrial rezoning resulting in lost property values, the odor, noise, traffic, threat to ground water, etc, etc).


I just love how a business that fails to prepare itself for future markets, because it was reluctant to part with "profit" is always deemed "The American Peoples Fault" by wingdings as alluded to in G Wills piece (of shit).

I posted this on the nooner;

Oil prices are all a rouse. Big oil wants to drill here at home. There is plenty of domestic oil here. The fucking old hippies won't let anyone drill here. Once we all get tired of paying soooo much, the "environmentalists" will have to relent.

There are trillions of barrels right under your feet.

what red said.

Blockquote>WOW! A whole fifty cent drop to $2.50 a gallon?

Thats CHEAP!

Sincerely

The Oil Industry Assholes!

Posted by Redneckville at 2008-06-06 09:30 AM


$2.50 a gallon? Here in Chicago a .50 drop would get us down to $3.80 a gallon.

"Fact is NOTHING has PREVENTED a New Refinery from being built in America other than the oil industries refusal to build facilities that in turn didn't pollute!"

Actually there is - even the SD refinery to be built had to pass a vote. Too many nays and no new refinery. Luckily, the people in SD made a good choice and in a few years hopefully will come on line if some environmental group doesn't block it in court.

ps: It will takes years so no way is this an influence of our current problems.

So what do all you stupid Bush apologists have to say about OIL PRICES today?

Raise your hand if you like getting fucked in the ass.

The Saudis have always sought to maximize their revenues without ruining our economy or making alternative technologies economically feasible. Once we've dumped lots of money into corn, biomass, wind and other projects, watch them pull the rug out AGAIN.

I'm saying if we pull out of Iraq, leave Iran alone, as the economy tanks and alternative energy projects come on line, oil prices will fall. THis may take 3-5 years.

In the short term, Bush's Oilymen will provide us with a brief relief just before the next election. Can't imagine the purpose???

These people and events are all part of "Free Market Economics", out to bleed you dry. Einstsein's Predatory Phase of Human Development.

Yippee --- another refinery that will run at half capacity!! There hasn't been a single refinery in America in 32 that's run 60% of its capacity!

Posted by Redneckville
* * * *

Isn't that fascinating.

The EIA just reported that May refinery utilization was 87.1%, up from 85% in February and March. So I have a dilemma: I can choose to believe the Energy Information Agency, who collects their data from thousands of refineries, pumping stations, and storage facilities EVERY WEEK. Or I can believe a poster on the DR with a proven record of dumbassedness, and of just making stuff up.

Hmmmm. What to do?

Too many nays and no new refinery.

Many communities have been approving Ethanol refineries but all I have seen is expansion of existing gas refineries.

"Oil prices are all a rouse. Big oil wants to drill here at home. There is plenty of domestic oil here. The fucking old hippies won't let anyone drill here. Once we all get tired of paying soooo much, the 'environmentalists' will have to relent. There are trillions of barrels under your feet."

I am roused. Maybe Lee means "ruse." Whatever he (?) means, he (?) seems to prefer the sight of oil derricks to the sights of Old Faithful, Half Dome and caribou wandering through Alaskan wilds. First things first, you know. Will "we" relent with ten-dollar gas? I hope I'll still be able to walk. /s? One fucking (when able) old hippie. herm

"Whatever he (?) means, he (?) seems to prefer the sight of oil derricks to the sights of Old Faithful, Half Dome and caribou wandering through Alaskan wilds."

The oil derricks will be WAAAAAY over the horizon offshore and so far in the boonies in Anwar you ain't NEVER gonna see 'em. You haven't seen the Chinese oil derricks forty miles off the Florida coast, have you? The Alsakan pipeline has killed how many caribou??? I mean, after all, the herd just keeps expanding. Time for reality, enviros...Brazil, China, Venezuela, Mexico, Russia...they and others see the reality. But then they have probably killed off their envirowackos.

Sperm,

Ruse. That's it.

We need oil. I don't care where they drill. On top of Mt. Rushmore. Yellowstone. My backyard. If there is a way for us to be independent and self-sufficient, I'm all for it. Fuck the caribou.

But then they have probably killed off their envirowackos.

Works for me. Anyone that impedes progress is off the island.

Oh Syphilis Plagued One,

There are a lot of "Not Separately Reported" on your list.

Since you're from Tejas, you must've had kin in the oil industry. You gotta understand the domestic oil is the only way to go. Most Tejas families are there because of the oil.

As has been said, there are a lot of factors involved with oil prices, futures, speculation, fear, political situations etc...but the MAJOR factor is still the law of supply and demand: Saudi Arabia and the OPEC nations refuse to increase production and all the while demand keeps spiraling upward.

Frshman ECON 101 quiz: What happens when supply remains the same with demand spiraling upward?
A) Prices decrease.
B) Prices increase.
C) Prices remain the same.
D) Hell, I don't know.

"Raise your hand if you like getting fucked in the ass."




Wait for Lieberman-Warner if you are into abuse.

Ok Zat,

How about converting shale into oil?

Oh, I know Texas may be tapped out. There are other ares in the country that need to be explored.

"What happens when supply remains the same with demand spiraling upward?"

OK, now apply the same logic of supply and demand to the dollar and see a major cause of rising gas prices.

"Fuck the caribou." Lee, baby, I hear women are good for that sort of thing too. Actually, "fuck the caribou" is where as preponderance of the DR's rigid righties are (at). Trade off the caribou, the spotted owl, darter snail and probably all trees everywhere for one extra year of indulging your SUVs and pickup trucks with gun nut bumper stickers. herm

I hear women are good for that sort of thing too.

That probably represents your total knowlege on the subject.


probably all trees everywhere

Yeah, you are reasonable and rational and thus, should be debating this.

LOL

"I can choose to believe the Energy Information Agency, who collects their data from thousands of refineries, pumping stations, and storage facilities EVERY WEEK. Or I can believe a poster on the DR"
Posted by rightisright at 2008-06-06 01:54 PM


YEAH!
"Energy Information Agency" A statistical agency of the U.S. Department of Energy!

So Sayith a "Cant Trust Government to Get Anything Right", Bush "conservative"!

Hmmmm. What to do INDEED!

Look, if you want to believe that the energy companies build refineries, then run them at only 60%, feel free. If you believe that oil companies make an unholy fortune selling gasoline at $4 a gallon, and don't refine all the gasoline they possibly can to make all the money they can, feel free to do that too. Feel free to tell all your family and friends, assuming you have any. Feel free to write letters to the editor of all the area newspapers, and sign them using your real name.

You're a moron. And it's easy to be a moron posting under a pseudonym. In real life, people laugh in your face. And that's exactly what I think should happen.

Trade off the caribou, the spotted owl, darter snail and probably all trees everywhere for one extra year of indulging your SUVs and pickup trucks with gun nut bumper stickers. herm

Posted by herm
* * * *

Wow. How to deal with so many strawmen at once?

I was unaware that that spotted owls can't just fly over oil derricks. I was unaware that darter snails exist, but I do know that the snail darters live in rivers, so would be unaffected by offshore drilling. And the occasional wandering caribou would be oblivious to drilling in ANWR, as has been proven by drilling elsewhere in Alaska.

Still, you know best.

"Trade off the caribou, the spotted owl, darter snail and probably all trees everywhere for one extra year of indulging your SUVs and pickup trucks with gun nut bumper stickers. herm"

You got it! We conservatives HATE all that stuff...and we hate trees too. You should know by now that we love polluted water, dirty air and we wanna starve children, throw old folks out into the street and take money away from all the poor people. You and your little friends are just too smart for us, Herm. Did the Obamessiah tell you how bitter we are because of that and how we cling to our guns and bibles and all?

Great article by Will. I especially liked this:

"ANWR is larger than the combined areas of five states (Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New Jersey, Delaware), and drilling along its coastal plain would be confined to a space one-sixth the size of Washington's Dulles airport."

* * * *

But to the hysterics like Herm and Obama, it's still too much.

If you choose to believe that demand for oil has far more than doubled since George Bush became president feel free to do that.

George Will? Wot crap is that disingenuous poppinjay trying to flog today?

We deserve the high gas prices we got because Clinton wouldn't let BigOil drill in freakin' ANWR?

R U 4 REAL?!

The common people of New York want Schumer to be their senator, so they should pipe down about gasoline prices, which are a predictable consequence of their political choice

Shumer?

Actually that would be yer beluffed tribe of GOPher/sheeple there, Georgie boy.

By electing FAILed oilman and noted silver coke spooner Geroge Dumbya and co-president dick HELLIBURTON cheney twice they pretty much guaranteed a WIN fer BigOil and and massive FAIL fer everybody else.

Wot did you think was gonna happen?

Cheaper oil? Yeah, good one.

Wot? You were serious?

Go on pull the other one.

The best part of that article was the Mencken quote.

Will was unsufferable on Colbert's show the other night.

Be Well.

PS: It's not so much the cost of oil going up as it is the US Dollar going down.

The slow death spiral of the petro dollar.

"And the occasional wandering caribou would be oblivious to drilling in ANWR, as has been proven by drilling elsewhere in Alaska."

I heard it said today that killing half the caribou in Alaska would affect NOBODY'S life but failing to drill for our own oil will affect EVERYBODY'S life. Sounds right to me.

That means ALL the existing refineries were running at well below capacity because you can't increase capacity if already running at 100% capacity without building additional refineries and you certainly don't INCREASE refining capabilities by CLOSING refineries unless you have additional unused capacity in the other facilities!


Posted by Redneckville
* * * * *

Ummm, no. You can add capacity to existing refineries, and then make them more efficient.

Not an engineer, are you? In fact, do you even have a high school education? Can you do anything at all, except simultaneously feign outrage and intelligence?

Ah well. One out of two ain't bad.

Let's not forget our refusal to drill off Florida where China is now drilling. 'Our' oil will become their oil - really smart of us.

"PS: It's not so much the cost of oil going up as it is the US Dollar going down."

Gee Spud, you sound exactly like them Saudis when Bush went over there begging for more oil.

If you believe that oil companies make an unholy fortune selling gasoline at $4 a gallon, and don't refine all the gasoline they possibly can to make all the money they can, feel free to do that too.....

You're a moron. And it's easy to be a moron posting under a pseudonym. In real life, people laugh in your face. And that's exactly what I think should happen.

Posted by rightisright at 2008-06-06 02:54 PM

Ahhh speaking of Morons....

Exxon shatters profit records
Oil giant makes corporate history by booking $11.7 billion in quarterly profit; earns $1,300 a second in 2007.

February 1 2008: 2:26 PM EST

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Exxon Mobil made history on Friday by reporting the highest quarterly and annual profits ever for a U.S. company, boosted in large part by soaring crude prices.

hmmm wonder how they made all that money?

That means ALL the existing refineries were running at well below capacity because you can't increase capacity if already running at 100%

Or that we increased the capacity of an existing refinery which is what we have done to all that I know of.

This guy should have stuck with Devo.

ohhh here it is further down in the same article...

The average price for a gallon of regular gasoline hit an all-time high of $3.23 in May, according to the motorist organization AAA. The high prices were blamed on strong demand and a series of accidents that shut down refineries in the U.S. But slack demand for gasoline in the latter half of last year kept gas prices from rising as dramatically as crude prices.

Exxon's record results, which coincide with smaller rival Chevron's (CVX, Fortune 500) profit jump, drew some fire from both government officials and consumer rights groups, who have argued previously that the the oil industry is deliberately restricting supply and profiting on the back of U.S. motorists.

Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y. took a swipe at the two firms, calling on fellow lawmakers to break the country's dependence on foreign oil and rollback unnecessary tax incentives for oil companies.

Judy Dugan, research director of The Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights, urged Congress to initiate some oversight into unregulated energy trading markets, which have been accused of helping to drive up the price of oil.

"Exxon is happy to take advantage of these prices," said Dugan.

Who is the Moron? Me thinks it is the RightisWrong once again...

You guys are like junkies you shoot up so much that one arm is so full of tracks that you can't find the vein anymore. So what do ya do make some changes? No way! We still got another arm and theres still lots of heroine to be had! Lets keep shooting up!

It really stupid. Fact is one day we will run out of oil. Where do you want to be when that time comes? Ahead of the game game with fully developed alternatives? Or behind the eight ball trying to catch up?

Fortune favors the prepared.

"How about converting shale into oil?"

Shale oil's a net energy loser.
It's stupid.

No wonder you picked it.

"Ummm, no. You can add capacity to existing refineries, and then make them more efficient"

YEAH!

Except for the fact that the industry has admitted that it doesn't "add capacity" because doing so requires it adhere to more recent and stringent regulation. The same "regulations" you say prevents them from building new ones (as to expensive, not in my back yard, etc, etc).

And why do you think that simply hurling insults makes you right?

And that's not even beginning to touch on the pollution issues.

You have to put more energy in than you get out.
Get it?

"Let's not forget our refusal to drill off Florida where China is now drilling. 'Our' oil will become their oil - really smart of us."

YEAH!

The ChiComs are fifty miles off our coast ------ and GW has our navy committed to fucking around in the ME vainly trying to fulfill the failed Neocon Privatized Pipe Dream Candy Mountain called Iraq!

What Priorities!

And I suppose you blame everyone else for this(except Bush and his Rubber Stamps) !

I've worked in the environmental consulting field for my entire professional life. Not once, have I ever been involved in an undertaking (out of thousands of projects) that was stopped cold by regulations or a government agency. Virtually every type of environmental issue can be mitigated in some way. For those that can't, most regulatory agencies lack any real enforcement capabilities, as they're typically staffed by political appointees. If a developer wants a project, he'll get his project. A $5,000 fine from the state DEP isn't going to stop a multi-million dollar undertaking.

The system is designed to prevent the spotted owl fiasco of the early 1990's from happening. The only time this kind of stuff pops up is when a developer ignores regulations and starts an undertaking w/out the proper clearance.

The only time a project gets stopped in its tracks is when there is significant grass roots, local opposition, and even then, more often than not the developer wins in the end.

I'm sure there are some examples, but I'm personally not aware of a single court case where Green Peace, PETA, or whatever hippie group, was able to take on a big corporation and actually win.

Spud: PS: It's not so much the cost of oil going up as it is the US Dollar going down."

Danni: Gee Spud, you sound exactly like them Saudis when Bush went over there begging for more oil.

When Bush begs the Saudi's fer favors there's a lot "going down" going down.

In the US he's restricted to brief kisses and long walks in the Rose Garden holding hands but apparently when staying in SA Dumbya's motto is "Wot happens in the Kingdom stays in the Kingdom".

Be Well.

"Since you're from Tejas, you must've had kin in the oil industry."


Sorry, it was Cotton & Cattle.

If I never pick cotton again it will be too soon.



Say the US, China and India each consume ~20 mbbl/d ...

There's 1.3 bbbl on Earth.

1.3E9/6.0E7 ~22 years

Wake up and smell the breeder reactor.

Well ASSHOLE libs, since the Dems took over congress oil is up 100%. I guess you ASSHOLE libs don't have the guts to admitt you screwed up big time. I know what the response is going to be, it's Bush's fault. Maybe if you took your head out of your ass you could tell your lib congress people to stop bending over ever time the green lobby makes a demand on them.

Here...you may have missed the irony of Chuck's two faced position. Anwar =$.01.... Saudi increased production= $.50.
From Kerrin--

You know you are right! That Schumer asshole did say that if we drill in ANWAR it will only decrease a gallon by one friggin penny!

But yet the same amount from the Saudi's will decrease the gallon by 50 cents!

What kind of math does this guy try to endorse?

And I heard ANWAR was in the making since 1980!!

The Dems still won't drill--no refineries--good luck in SD--believe it when you see it.

I heard in ND they have tons of jobs with oil related jobs up there.

1.3E9/6.0E7 ~22 years

Yeah,
I've been hearing that for 30 years.

It's stupid.

No wonder you picked it.

Ok, what do you propose that is cost and energy effective? Something that your Porsche and plane can operate on.

It's easier to give a sigh and be like all the rest
Who stand around and crucify you while you do your best
It's easier to see the books upon the shelf
Than to see yourself

"It's really stupid. Fact is one day we will run out of oil. Where do you want to be when that time comes? Ahead of the game game with fully developed alternatives? Or behind the eight ball trying to catch up?

Fortune favors the prepared.

Posted by Salaryman at 2008-06-06 03:29 PM | Reply |

Man, first post of this thread that takes into account the wider picture. Self-sufficiency comes from alternative sources of energy, not alternative supplies of oil. You're debating on whether or not to change the toilet paper in the washroom of a plane that is crashing. Entertaining certainly, but futile.

"Ok, what do you propose that is cost and energy effective?"

YEAH!

Why Conservation of course!

Nothing is More Cost Effective than Eliminating Waste!
Every successful company in existence does it --- FIRST!

Howz-come when everyone rips the oil companies for record profits and completely forgets to consider the Scale of the industry and that their profit margins actually hover around 10%?

The software company I work for freaks out when our profit margins drop below 30%

Except for the fact that the industry has admitted that it doesn't "add capacity" because doing so requires it adhere to more recent and stringent regulation

Link?

Nothing is More Cost Effective than Eliminating Waste!
Every successful company in existence does it --- FIRST!

Are oil companies successful?

Fatboy,

Tell me what kind of volume does you software company do?

Oil companies do tremendous volume they don't need a lot of markup to make sick profits.

Whoa whoa whoa. Somebody said the conservation word. How are we gonna sell any SUV's with that mentality?

"Fact is, we do need more refineries, and we need them to be more dispersed geographically.

Posted by rightisright at 2008-06-06 04:02 PM"

But, but, but:

"Chevron's Robertson said the issue wasn't really one of refining, and more just the price of crude.

We are investing all we can [in finding new oil] given the limitations of access and our own human capacity," he said. "We have adequate refined capacity, inventories are at an all time high. The issue is the price of crude."

Hmmm. Who to believe? Chevron CEO Robertson, or RightIsRight?

"We have adequate refined capacity," said Robertson.

"Goddamn it, stick to the talking points," said RightIs.

"Are oil companies successful?"

Posted by eberly at 2008-06-06 04:15 PM

YEAH!

Apparently not. Since what you all are saying is that they don't have the infrastructure to cope with demand ---- conveniently because of "someone else" of course!

And a "link" you demand? What's the point, you will just ignore it anyway (like the last link you asked for).

In regards to rightis, im not arguing that perhaps we should build some new refineries, its just dumb considering we could accomplish the same thing by simply eliminating the gobs of waste ------ FIRST!

Redneck - don't believe the hype. Chevron's CEO says we have adequate refining capacity. Why do you think he is wrong?

Jeez, you righties depress me. Fuck caribou. Fuck Alaska. Fuck Yosemite, Yellowstone and the Grand Canyon. Just gimme my god-given SUVs, pickups and "hunting" guns. Let others starve; just don't charge ME any taxes. No one matters but me. And above all, fuck O'Bama, who will need an FDR-like set of programs to even begin to undo Bush's damage. And if the worst they can find is that Barney's granny went to a Unitarian church, that still makes him a lowdown wimpy comsymp traitor ... Jeez. I weep. herm

We are investing all we can [in finding new oil] given the limitations of access and our own human capacity," he said. "We have adequate refined capacity, inventories are at an all time high. The issue is the price of crude."

Hmmm. Who to believe? Chevron CEO Robertson, or RightIsRight?

Posted by mOntecOre
* * * *

Nice try retard. My point is that we need more refineries in places like Illinois and South Dakota. It's a crummy idea to have so many refineries concentrated in Coastal Texas and South Louisiana, and every time a thunderstorm develops in the Gulf of Mexico we down here start to get very nervous about refineries going down.

I'm not in disagreement with Mr. Robertson; we have, at the moment, barely ample refinery capacity. But we need to add more, and we need to put them in places they aren't, currently. Increasing the size and capacity of the Pascagoula and Southeast Louisiana terminals only addresses one of the problems.

We need more pipelines, too. The Northeast United States is fed by two, and only two, pipelines, the Colonial and the Plantation systems, both of which shut down during Katrina, lacking power. I've never understood why Boston and Manhattan liberals don't mind hanging by a thread, knowing that they've only got 2 days' supply of refined gasoline on hand in the event of a power outage anywhere from Louisiana to Pennsylvania. But if they don't care, why should I?

I'm willing to support drilling in ANWAR just to see the excuses the GOP comes up with then to explain why oil is still $150 a barrel. What magic wand will they wave next?

Drilling in ANWAR is like looking for loose change in the couch to help with the mortgage payment. You can dig all you like, you ain't going to find what you need.

(J. Stephen Simon is senior vice president of ExxonMobil)

Refinery capacity:

Simon maintained that new refineries are not necessary and that the oil industry has expanded capacity at existing facilities "commensurate with demand."

"The market is working - I know it's painful - but it's working," he said

So you would have us believe that Robertson and J. Stephen Simon lied to Congress, eh RightIs? Just admit your wrong, and move on.

"Nothing is More Cost Effective than Eliminating Waste!"

That'w what Jimmy Carter said years ago.

I wonder if we haven't just passed the pinnacle of energy consumption in the United States? The auto companies are closing entire factories dedicated to SUVs and trucks. People are just not buying gas guzzlers. Smartcars are appearing on the streets here in Ft. Lauderdale, as are scooters by the hundreds. All we have really managed to do is to finally allow gas to cost enough that we are allowing it to effect our behavior. I read somewhere the other day in an oped that the author was just sorry we couldn't have used high gas taxes these past years to convince us of the same thing but we would also have new roads and bridges to drive our efficient vehicles on. Instead we waited for the oil companies to charge us enough to have the same effect but without the new roads and bridges.

Herm, take some Midol and chill out for God's sake. Nobody mentioned drilling in Yosemite and Yellowstone or the Grand Canyon. And what does hunting have to do with anything? And what does starving people have to do with anything, except in the sense that Obama has signed on to this absurd ethanol program, by which liberals like yourself are starving kids in the third world by burning a bushel and a half of corn with every fillup? And by the way--what kind of car do you drive? And do you run your air conditioner? Your fridge? Just curious. You libs have railed on for years and years about cheap gasoline, and how much smarter the Europeans are for their transportation choices. So how come libs are on here complaining, instead of riding on the train?

You remind me of my ex-wife. Always screaming about everything, until she could get to her stash of Zoloft. Try some.

"But we need to add more," said RightIs.

"New refineries are not necessary," said ExxonMobil senior vice president J. Stephen Simon.

It's like a clash of the titans, here.

So you would have us believe that Robertson and J. Stephen Simon lied to Congress, eh RightIs? Just admit your wrong, and move on.

Posted by mOntecOre
* * * *

You're being stupid. I answered Redneck and said that we have more refineries, not less. And I added that we could use more, in places not affected by Gulf Coast hurricanes. I'm not in disagreement with what this Robertson said, at least in the context of refineries.

So you're just making up stuff, to try and look smart. Kinda like Redneckville, $war, Boyd . . .

Being married to you would drive anyone to Zoloft, RightIs.

RightIs, I'm not making anything up. You say we need more, the oil execs do not agree with you. Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, but you are not in agreement with the oil execs.

"You remind me of my ex-wife. Always screaming about everything, until she could get to her stash of Zoloft. Try some.

Posted by rightisright at 2008-06-06 04:59 PM"

Who wouldn't need Zoloft being married to such a selfish and self-centered cretin like RiR?

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Who wouldn't need Zoloft being married to such a selfish and self-centered cretin like RiR?

Posted by nullifidian
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LOL. Funny. She was put on Zoloft two years after our divorce. Thank God I didn't have to put with that for much longer.

Nice contribution to the thread, though. As usual, it's nothing.

"You remind me of my ex-wife. Always screaming about everything, until she could get to her stash of Zoloft."


"She was put on Zoloft two years after our divorce."

Thanks for reminding us not to believe anything you say

"You remind me of my ex-wife. Always screaming about everything, until she could get to her stash of Zoloft."


"She was put on Zoloft two years after our divorce."

Thanks for reminding us not to believe anything you say


Posted by nullifidian
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?????

She's still my ex-wife. She still (presumably) screams about everything, until she's able to get to her antidepressants, or she gets her way, which is usually more expensive than a couple of pills. She was diagnosed as bipolar the year of our divorce in '04, and was put on a series of meds, finally Zoloft and something else, in 2006. So what do you think I'm lying about?

Once Saudi Arabia no longer needed us to protect the monarchy from Saddam they give us the finger? Assholes.

I was paying $1.29 for gas before Bush and Co. destabilized the ME by invading Iraq.

Thanks George

I was paying $1.29 for gas before Bush and Co. destabilized the ME by invading Iraq.

* * * *

Hysterical. Yes, the ME was just a tranquil, calm, placid place before Bush ruined everything by destabilizing it. LOL. If there's one place that's needs to overturn the 9th-century status quo, the ME is it.

George Will is a fucking loonie....RIGHT WING SHIT HEAD!!! His opinions as usual are way off, why anyone in there right mind listen or even reads this fuck is unbelievable. He reminds one of Hannity just keep saying the same thing over, an over again maybe it will come true.

George Will is nothing like Sean Hannity, and he doesn't "keep saying the same thing over an (sic) over again." You're a retard.

rightisright I was paying $2.35 for a gallen of gas before the dems took over congress.

danni "nothing is more cost effective then eliminating waste" That's why we got rid of Carter!

Hysterical. Yes, the ME was just a tranquil, calm, placid place before Bush ruined everything by destabilizing it.
RiR

And oil was a fraction of the price per bbl before Bush invaded Iraq.

rightisright I was paying $2.35 for a gallen of gas before the dems took over congress.

Posted by ozzieoswald
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Me too. And hundreds of thousands of high school kids could get minimum wage jobs. Now, the new Dem Congress has seen to it that they can't, courtesy of the minimum wage hike that they promised wouldn't cause higher unemployment among unskilled laborers. So here we are: Highest level of teenage employment since 1948.

celisary George Will, is heads above some of your liberal ASSHOLE heros. You probably love that Becktle. What a shit head.

And oil was a fraction of the price per bbl before Bush invaded Iraq.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY
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I'm not arguing that point. A population equal to that of the United States has joined the middle class in Southeast Asia over only the last 10 years, and that has huge consequences as to oil demand and, thus, price.

I think it's funny that anything Bush has done--or any president, for that matter--can be said to have "destabilized" the Middle East. They've been slaughtering each other for four thousand years. No reason to think it won't go on just because the Obamites get their man in the White House.

DETROIT, Jan. 8, 2006 The Ford F-250 Super Chief concept takes truck leadership to a new level as the world's first vehicle with Tri-Flex fueling, enabling the supercharged V-10 to run for 500 miles between fill-ups on hydrogen, E85 ethanol or gasoline.

AS A CONSUMER.... THIS IS THE DEMAND WE NEED TO MAKE TO THE UNITED STATED AUTO MAKERS

I think it's funny that anything Bush has done--or any president, for that matter--can be said to have "destabilized" the Middle East.

RiR

The troubling thing is that you're serious.

For all the ME troubles oil NEVER hit these highs until W decided to start a war no one else in the world wanted and our own intelligence services and military commanders argued against waging.

Sorry, the ME balance of power was drastically altered by invading Iraq. Iran got new clout, the Saudis no longer need us to protect them against Saddam and so they tell W to fuck off when he asks them to raise production.

Again, had this been Bill Clinton who invaded Iraq you'd be screaming at the top of your lungs. Sorry, there's nothing you can say that will absolve Bush of all the troubles he's caused. It's not a GOP vs DEM issue for me in any area. It's Bush and Co.'s behavior that has me rightly upset. Most of the country agrees with me on this one.

18% "right direction"
22% approval rating for Bush

George Will is nothing like Sean Hannity

Agreed.

Yawn Hamn'cheeZ is an absolute retard, an assclown of ginormous proportions. A barely literate talking head, strategically shaved and shoved into a suit on a nightly basis so he can read a teleprompter full of propagandistic nonsense out loud to an audience of dull witted sheeple.

George Will, otoh, is an upscale version of the above. Semi-literate, smug to the point of being insufferable, smarmy as hell and yet still so farking wrong it's scary.

They are both blivets but Will is the pricier brand.

Spud sez put 'em all in the same room with Bill Kristol, Darth Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, David Frum and the skull of William F Buckley and you might just initiate a FAIL cascade that would cause this entire part of the galaxy to collapse upon itself in sheer disgust.

Just a theory.

Be Well.

"We have adequate refined capacity,"

NO WE DO NOT!. A decades ago we just imported crude and refined it here. Now days we actually import refined gasoline as well as crude to meet US demands.

YOU CAN SEE JUST BY THE COMMENTS ON THIS THREAD....the American people will not take the lead in change

you will not see Americans organising or protesting in mass about from changing from oil to hydrogen

even though they will protest in mass to stop a war they believe is because of oil

all you will hear from the American people is a cry about high oil prices....and what to do to get those oil prices lower

you will not hear from the American people about what to do to get hydrogen started....and to get hydrogen prices lower

Amercas addiction to oil is as bad as....Americas addiction to Chineese products

We cry about change...but do little about it

IF YOU REALLY ARE TIRED ABOUT OIL AND THE PROBLEMS THAT COME ALONG WITH IT......You need to start at the local level...like california did

CENTRAL FUEL POINTS IS THE KEYS TO GET HYDROGEN GOING

THOSE WHO INVEST IN HYDROGEN TODAY...WILL BE THE FAT CATS OF TOMMORROW

Wasn't it our resident financial wizard, RIR, who was assuring us how gas prices would be dropping in short order? Typical right wing know nothing. Present a rosy picture on a bad situation which is only getting worse.

If I understand The Rightie right, he divorced his wife because she became bipolar. Now this goes along the Republican tradition of when your wife develops cancer, emphysema or schizophrenia, you divorce the bitch. If you have enough loot, you pick up a kind of showpiece substitute. Indeed, if you're Republican enough you were probably fooling around with her BEFORE your wife took ill. herm

We are awash in our own bullshit concerning oil prices and gas prices and do not realize it. We lower interest rates and when the dollar decreases in value we bitch because the seller wants MORE of the cheaper dollars for his oil. We tax the producer and then bitch when he passes it on to us in the form of higher energy costs. We demand government passes laws that will ensure we can continue to do as we always have and then bitch when the product soars in price because others have also jumped on our bandwagon. And, to top it all off we blame the president or congress for our own STUPIDITY.

Give me a frigging break and get a real life. Stupid is as stupid does. Reality is reality. This is going to be a long hard rough ride folks and no amount of government intervention, no amount of anything short of a drastic change in our way of life will ever put a dent in this thing. Like it or not the chickens have come home to roost and we are all of a sudden finding chicken shit all over the steps to the front porch.

Be well and dream on.

We cry about change...but do little about it

Posted by judas

The simple think they will get change by voting for Obama.

Anyone that believes that if we WERE allowed to tap our domestic resources, and that the price of gas to consumers would drop by a penny, is either stupid or a Republican.

Raping of the American public by Corporate scum has taken on new meaning: Get used to it!

If I understand The Rightie right, he divorced his wife because she became bipolar. Now this goes along the Republican tradition of when your wife develops cancer, emphysema or schizophrenia, you divorce the bitch. If you have enough loot, you pick up a kind of showpiece substitute. Indeed, if you're Republican enough you were probably fooling around with her BEFORE your wife took ill. herm

Posted by herm
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Actually I divorced her because she was having an affair. But I give you credit: your douchebaggery has hit an all-time low.

Oh, lemme guess your next post--something like, how can anyone possibly be surprised that anyone married to rightisright would look for someone else?--or some such BS. As it happened, we briefly reconciled, as we were trying to work things out. But the damage had been done.

She's not really to blame for some of the way she behaves. You have no such excuse, and you're just a big, fat, disgusting turd.

Wasn't it our resident financial wizard, RIR, who was assuring us how gas prices would be dropping in short order? Typical right wing know nothing. Present a rosy picture on a bad situation which is only getting worse.

Posted by moder8
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You place your bets, I'll place mine. I even pay the ones I lose, more than you can say.

BTW--check out the futures prices on wholesale gasoline deliveries. Why didn't they hit highs today? And why were oil stocks DOWN? The double inverse ETF, DUG, was up almost 3% on the day, as almost all the oil companies went DOWN.

Hmmmmm. It's called "decoupling". Look it up. And stay short.

Hey Democrats.

can we build some refineries, build some more Nuke powerplans, and continue oil shale conversion, and oil drilling now please?

or do you want gas to be $7 a gallon, then concede I was right, and you were wrong.

The democrats are SO invested in so called "global warming" they can't go back to common sense anymore.

Gas could be $20 a gallon, and the economy could be in depression and the democrats STILL would not allow any energy production at home.

Thats how FUCKING STUPID DEMOCRATS ARE.

And I mean fucking stupid.

Kuma

Gas could be $20 a gallon, and the economy could be in depression and the democrats STILL would not allow any energy production at home.

KUMA

BS They built the Trans-Alaskan pipeline in the 70's. They promised it would help us become energy independent. Instead, most of the supertankers take a hard right turn out of Valdez and move that oil to Asia. Have been for decades.

KUMA

I thought you lawyers usually ended your day around 4 pm. Why is it you're always logging on just about the time the 2nd shift at Jack In The Box lets out?

ARMYVET: I respect the army (and your service to your country) as I was stationed by 5th Special Forces in RVN 70/71 , Ft Meade MD, 71/72 (NSA), McGuire AFB next to Ft Dix [an active Army installation in my day] - but you need to actually educate yourself, study instead of citing the liberal story line when it comes to oil. The liberals in the country are the ones who have limited our access to our own oil in Alaska and off Florida causing us to be dependent on other countries for this resource.

Now also be aware that China is now drilling for 'our' oil approx 60 miles off Florida - where our country is not willing to allow our companies to drill: guess the oil will still come out, but the US will not benefit!

I am mainly talking about Nuke Powerplants and the Oil Shale we have in the rockies. Its enough energy in the rockies to make oil for what? over 100 years?

Also, electric cars are the way to go. We need massive solar power, and nuke power, and we need it right now.

As I said, I am a green conservative. I have a 9 KW solar system on my house, and I own 2 hybrid cars.

When the first economical, and sensible electric car comes out, I will buy it, and I will charge it for free with my solar power.

Alaska means very little. Its all about Oil Shale and Nuke plants.

I am on your side on this one man, why can't you fucking see that and quit acting like what I am saying is from the devil.

I am probably 1000x greener than you.

Kuma

Now also be aware that China is now drilling for 'our' oil approx 60 miles off Florida - where our country is not willing to allow our companies to drill: guess the oil will still come out, but the US will not benefit!

Posted by MSgt

welcome to the 21st century MSgt.. we need to be off oil COMPLETELY not drill for more..

I work in the valley. Its over an hour drive away. I get home about 7-8 PM.

And fridays, I take my sports car out to get detailed when I get home. I am home from that, so now its time to rip some liberals a new asshole.

Kuma

I personally think it's silly that so much of our oil production is concentrated in the Gulf of Mexico

I personally think it is silly to still be using oil..

I am mainly talking about Nuke Powerplants and the Oil Shale we have in the rockies. Its enough energy in the rockies to make oil for what? over 100 years?

KUMA

OK. We're in agreement on that. We need to build more nuclear plants with newer technology. Storage of the spent fuel rods is still an unresolved issue.

I've been pretty green for 30 years.

Sorry about that drive to the valley. Can I assume you live in Orange County? You're such a staunch NeoCon I can't imagine you'd be comfortable living anywhere else. I lived in the L.A. area a LOOOOONG time. Traffic got to me and I moved where I am now for the green and open spaces. Still get out there a few times a year for my business and get in some surfing in Hermosa Beach where my last house was.

One other thing KUMA:

Doesn't it make sense to keep the oil we produce here to reduce our dependence on foreign oil? I for one am sick of sending people who mean us no good billions a month in profits.

Shale and also the sands in Colorado are a good source of fossil fuel provided it can be mined without destroying the landscape with strip mining. There are some new technologies out there such as forcing hot water into the ground to force up the oil from coal fields.

I think the bottom line is to create a Manhattan Project sized effort to wean ourselves off of fossil fuel for a lot of good reasons. If we could put a man on the moon in less than a decade we should be able to solve this once and for all. But, it will take political will. We will never drill our way out of this problem.

I'm calling a truce with you. I'm a moderate who's voted both ways until the 90's. So, don't you make rash assumptions about people either, cool?

MSGT

I still would like to know why the cost of a barrel of oil has DOUBLED from this same time LAST YEAR?

How is that possible? Lack of domestic drilling? I don't think so.

I have not heard the REAL EXPLANATION. The truth is hidden in the deep recesses of corporate america, the US government and OPEC.

Let's not blame the Democrats only in this. That's foolish.

Nothing is More Cost Effective than Eliminating Waste!
Every successful company in existence does it --- FIRST!

Posted by Redneckville at 2008-06-06 04:01 PM


YEAH
Operative words..."Eliminating Waste!"

YEAH
In our government as well as energy!

RED
Uncommonly rational for you.

OPEC refuses to increase production while demand is increasing.

They would be trading useful oil for almost worthless dollars. It most certainly is the fault of the US government and the bankers for devaluing the dollar.

"It most certainly is the fault of the US government and the bankers for devaluing the dollar."

Here in this country...yes. However, you'll notice I said that the increase in the cost of oil WORLDWIDE can't be blamed SOLELY on the U.S.

Then try to remember that oil itself back then was ten bucks a barrel, and in order to maintain profit, the industry reduced operation capacity to control price!

Posted by Redneckville

Redneck just rewrote the laws of economics. Every economist since Adam Smith maintained that businesses improvd profit by expanding production. Now we learn that the new economics is to improve profit by DECREASING production. Get Samuelson out of retirement.

Jest

That is true because every country in the world is devaluing their currency. There is a disguised trade war going on by competitive devaluation.

Still, the the buck stops at Washington.

"Redneck just rewrote the laws of economics. Every economist since Adam Smith maintained that businesses improvd profit by expanding production. Now we learn that the new economics is to improve profit by DECREASING production. Get Samuelson out of retirement."

Either that or get Redneck back to solving the fake moon landing controversy.

businesses improvd profit by expanding production.

That's simplistic. Overproduction will collapse margins. That's why monopolies and cartels control the availability of a commodity like diamonds. The spikes in oil seem to be a combination of devaluation and speculation because the demand curve doesn't justify the rapid increase in price.

Actually, letting the dollar drift down will increase foreign investment in US properties, make labor rates more competitive, and tourism should increase as a American vacation becomes something of a bargain.

Americans used to be frugal out of necessity. I think it's the new meme. It just hasn't caught on yet.

OZ

I kept it simple so not to confuse the main point. When a business can't meet sales with existing capacity, the usual reaction is to accumulate profits to finance the expansion of production. That's why the clamoring to penalize the oil companies is suicidal.

This is all scapegoating. If you look at the charts of the dollar and oil, they are moving in inverse directions. The rising cost of energy and all other commodities was made in Washington. They will be forced to be frugal out of necessity.

I would not be cheering for the continued down drift of the dollar. Take those speculators as a warning sign of rising expectations for a falling dollar.

It dawned on me that the market might be anticipating an attack on Iran.

Another myth that I see is the one about oil profits going to the ME. Fact is imports according to volume are: Canada, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Nigeria and Venezuela. That's right. By far, a majority of oil imports come from non-Arab countries.

Assuming the ignorance and stupidity on this site represent mainstream America, this country is doomed.

The arguments I hear about why the price of oil is so high all seem to miss the real reason oil costs so much money in a capitalist society: supply and demand. Its basic economics. The oil companies are only charging what the oil is worth based on the current supply:demand ratio. The legislators are only responsible in so much as they are trying to follow the will of the people (successfully or not) and have no direct control over the supply of oil. Yes they impose taxes on the oil, but how else are we going to pay to pave the country? Gotta have roads to drive on.

Everyone seems to be skirting the real reason oil prices are so high: we use too much of it. Look around you. Probably 90% of the stuff you own has petroleum in it or uses it to run. Of course it doesn't help to have over 200,000,000 passenger vehicles on the road (USDOT) either.

The solution to this problem is simple yet painful at the same time: society needs to recognize that they are the cause of the problem and change their behavior. "But you can't just make 300,000,000 people change their habits" you say? Of course you can. All the solutions I have seen put forward involve some sort of government intervention to artificially depress the cost of oil why not legislate that people have 10 years to get off petroleum and onto public transport or into electric vehicles?

I hear "Impossible" coming from many lips. No its not. We developed nuclear bombs in what 6 years? Yes it took a large destructive World War to get it done but we did it. What makes this situation any different? Maybe I'm a fatalist but if oil prices keep rising and all we do is sit here and point fingers without taking action this could very well be the start of something much worse than WWII.

How would we finance all the projects needed to get off petroleum? That's easy too: stop building new roads. No reason to have six lanes of tarmac on both sides of the highway if no one is driving on it. Increasing the taxes imposed on gasoline would be a good start as well. Then the people who are the biggest consumers could foot more of the bill (of course concessions would have to be made for shipping, agriculture, etc). The current situation needs to start being treated not like a calamity that can be cut off but one that is already here and we must confront head on.

And for those of you who are saying "what have you done to change your behavior Mister Bully Pulpit?" I traded my new 18mpg truck for a used 30 mpg car about a year ago, I have compact fluorescent lights in all my sockets, I turn all my lights off when not in use and keep my AC at 80 degrees (I live in TX, cut me little slack), I shop locally and try to consume only local food, and I almost never travel. I'm sure there are a ton of other things I could be doing as well but this is a situation in which one person's effort is worthless if no one else changes.

Get on the bus people, we're all going the same direction anyway.

We actually have no gas shortage. My wife travels approx 1100 miles a week covering 6 states in her position as Area Sales Manager in charge of 9 stores. She has yet to see any stations with a 'no gas' sign.

People just are not happy for paying more for something that was once cheap. Well they now have to prioritize their spending like many do around the world.

I was stationed in the DC area in the 70s when one could only gas up on alternate days and then you had to find a station flying a green flag which indicated they had gas - now that's a shortage!

MSGT

I remember '79 being in line on the day my license plate matched (odd or even) and seeing a dozen supertankers sitting low in the water full of crude while they were talking on the radio about the 'oil shortage'.

PS All the talk is about 'demand' these days. Well, I haven't seen a single gas station indicating they can't get all the gas they want.

Seems to be a case of the Saudis and Kuwaitis (our allies, right?) demanding we pay out the wazoo now that they don't need us to protect them or rescue them from Saddam.

AMERICANUNITY - Yes, saw the same thing. I chartered a Mariner 28' sloop out of Rock Hall MD for 10 days to cruise the Chesapeake, sailed around a few at anchor apparently awaiting to eventually offload oil. All that oil sitting and we had long lines. Whether true or not, I heard that the bottleneck for them was the refinery as it seems once they fall behind the oil was arriving faster than they could refine it.

MSGT

The particular incident I mentioned in CA was only a few days after the '79 'oil embargo' began.

I happened to be next to a harbor. As I listened to the radio and crept closer to the pump (I was about 50th in line and they only opened for 2 hours) I said to myself, "Uh, huh. SURE there's an oil shortage". I counted at least 12 supertankers from my vantage point.

We hear that same old 'not enough refineries'. But, isn't it funny that talk always happens when prices rise dramatically? I have yet to encounter a single gas station in 29 years that says it doesn't have all the gas I want to buy.

Akin to Enron telling CA they didn't have capacity to produce electricity - all while they cut back their generators to 50-70% their usual rate of production.

I have to always say a hardy, "Uh, huh" whenever I hear all that talk from the energy companies or NeoCons about refineries (not from you). I've yet in 29 years heard I couldn't buy all the gas I wanted whenever I wanted to.

The embargo was 1973. The 1979 problem was the shutdown of Iran's production as a consequence of the revolution.

The embargo was 1973. The 1979 problem was the shutdown of Iran's production as a consequence of the revolution.

Posted by Zatoichi

Right you are.

May the statue of Athena in our perfect replica of the Parthenon fall on top of me LOL

Athena only comes when she's on top.

I went through Nashburg a few times when my son was at Sewanee, but I never got there.

$10 more per barrel.

Damn. "Demand" sure went up. /snark

Posted by nutcase at 2008-06-06 01:54 PM

I'm saying if we pull out of Iraq, leave Iran alone, as the economy tanks and alternative energy projects come on line, oil prices will fall. THis may take 3-5 years.

Certainly the oil companies are doing well now as the price of oil has increased.

But as I recall, the oil companies were lobbying for the right to drill offshore, even off Sen. Kennedy's place in Massachusets, but the righteous left shot them down as the prospect of an oil shortage did not impinge on their consciousness.

Now that we've been confronted with reality therapy, increasing oil use worldwide, with China and India particularly with their massive populations, industrializing and extensively having individuals using gas powered transport, TPA as we used to call it, Travel by Private Auto.

Oil drilling and increase in numbers of refineries are a short-term solution as China is asserting control economically and militarily over reserves worldwide. It is concluding "deals" for oil in Africa, off-shore in Cuba, and elsewhere, and threatening Vietnam and Taiwan over entitlement to offshore oil.

It's only a short-term fix as we need to get our shale and coal into production. I read that even with current use, thermonuclear can only sustain the world for 100 years or so.

I suppose that we may ultimately have recourse to blimps and sailing ships again. Whatever. Reconfiguration of cities to reduce travel.

Solar and geothermal should survive man's existence on this planet if their potentials are reached.

In the meantime, we have the military, and are absolutely insane if we do not assert domination and control over oil resources at prices that enable us to maintain our standard of living. We can allocate supplies with other world powers and consign the Arabs and Islamics are sitting on the supplies to the status we can enforce.

Parenthetically, it seems that the ME supplies are primarily under the control of Shia groups in Iraq and Iran, and surprisingly although Saudi Arabia is a Sunni country, their oil reserves are situated in areas where the Shia populations predominate.

The oil resources necessary for sustaining American prosperity are available to us. All we need to do is take them. Only an idiot will go into starvation mode when there is food available, but lefties are prone to harm themselves and others whom they can influence to act in conformity with their insane belief system. Lefty-ism carries sophistry to the extreme. They are "sophisticated" according to the most remote definition of the term.

Hey Johnson why aren't You over there taking the Oil that You so desperate want to take??

Larry Mohr

Nothing I've ever done in my life making me deserve having to pay $4.50 a gallon for gasoline -- well, except for voting for Bush in 2000. But still, can't I be cut a little slack for not making that same mistake in 2004?

We are getting gouged big time. I think I see price fixing among the oil cartels and criminal collusion. Anyone else think they see the same thing?

making = makes

Posted by LarryMohr at 2008-06-08 04:14 AM

Hey Johnson why aren't You over there taking the Oil that You so desperate want to take??

Posted by CalifChris at 2008-06-08 04:25 AM

We are getting gouged big time. I think I see price fixing among the oil cartels and criminal collusion. Anyone else think they see the same thing?

Posted by Legio at 2008-06-07 12:44 AM

welcome to the 21st century MSgt.. we need to be off oil COMPLETELY not drill for more..

But I think the precipitating cause that provides them with this opportunity is not within their control, but is due to the increasing worldwide demand.

JOHNSON

But, anyone in the world can go to any gas station they want to and buy all the gas they want to. There is no shortage of gas or oil.

PS They're paying as little as 50 cents a gallon for gas in Iraq. Subsidized by the good old United States. Meanwhile, Halliburton charges our military up to $20 a gallon for the very same fuel, and during Cheney's stint as CEO moved all but 3 of their 70 subsidiaries offshore both to avoid U.S. taxes and to do business with Saddam and circumvent the ban on doing so under U.S. law and international sanctions.

Oh, and thanks to Bush's war upsetting the balance of power in the ME Saudi Arabia, who no longer needs us to protect them from Saddam, just told Bush to shove it - twice - when he asked them to increase production in order to bring prices down

Saudi Arabia, who no longer needs us to protect them from Saddam, just told Bush to shove it - twice - when he asked them to increase production in order to bring prices down

Posted by AMERICANUNITY
* * * *

You need to update your talking points. Saudi Arabia just agreed to hike output by 300,000 bpd.