If we would drill and find oil here in the US, we would keep our dollars and not have to beg the middle east to bring them back to us to use.

Are we trying to borrow our way out of debt? The more foreign investment we have here, the more dollars will leave our shores. WTF over. Are we that stupid?

Thank you Barney Frank!! You lazy POS.

There isn't enough money in the world to bail out this debt forsaken nation. The collapse of the US economy and the dollar is a done deal.

EVERY THREE DAYS the USA squanders as much in Iraq as it would cost to provide health insurance for every uninsured American for one year. In that same time Saudi Arabia pockets enough money to buy GM.

The incompetence and corruption that shapes Washington boggles the mind.

People at the top have got it made and simply don't give a shit. Clinton has pocketed $100 million over the last eight years. Barrack is the least elitist of ALL the candidates, which is why he is attacked in that Rovian manner.

The bullshit never stops. How many more takers will this stupid country produce?

"WASHINGTON -- The Senate on Wednesday gave final approval to a $3 trillion budget blueprint that calls for more spending than President Bush requested for education, highway construction and other domestic programs."

Assuming 300 million Americans, that comes to $10,000 for every American - that counts babies too. Ladies and gentlemen, these people don't give a shit about managing expenses. You have to be brain dead stupid to vote for either of the two major parties.

Oh I forgot.

"Senator Barack Obama of Illinois joined other Democrats in voting for the budget, which was approved 48 to 45. Senators from both parties embraced Mr. Obama and congratulated him when he showed up on the Senate floor, hours after clinching the Democratic presidential nomination."

Obama = McCain = more debt, more war, more unemployment, more poverty. A vote for either is a vote for the destruction of America.

Meanwhile China is drilling for oil approx 60 miles off Florida - where we will not. Guess we can buy oil from them instead with money borrowed from the Arabs.

$875 billion in assets, and encouraged them to buy American businesses.


875 billion? How much have we spent on the War of Choice so far?

Ny personal economy is fine. I could care less about the national economy or anyone elses finances. I'm debt free, no mortgage. I'm going to buy up some nice price-reduced houses that stupid fucks lost to foreclosure. I may also buy a couple of huge repoed SUVs too!

Rx: tax the fuck out of rich people!!! Nothing will improve until the direction of the concentration of wealth is reversed.

A vote for the Demopublicans is a vote to tax the poor and the middle class. You'll never learn Danni.

3 party system,hello, the best this country can produce is what we have. Greedy elitists and arrogant ruling class of politicians,Washington DC has lost its moral compass so long ago.

Sniper,

Rockefeller already took most of our oil, as fast as he could, for virtually nothing. The family has reinvested those returns, which exceed Bill Gates by a factor of 5. Smart policies, this country is full of nothing but smart policies, for the few, the connected, the corrupt.

Yes, Standard oil cut thier prices in half and put everybody else out of business,them bought them , real cheap at the turn of the19-20 century.

Inflated Housing Prices were a Colossal Scam!

Back in the late 1960's before the housing market went ballistic,most average people were earning incomes between 6 and 9 thousand dollars a year.At that time you could still buy a half decent house for from 15-20 thousand bucks.When the giant real estate companies started to grossly inflate the price of housing in the early 1070's the average wage earners who wanted housing were simply clobbered and robbed.
Sure today the annual wage for average workers has increased fourfold from the 1960's but the average price of houses has increased 20 to 30 fold and more in this same time period.These greatly inflated housing prices in no way reflects,let alone even slightly equals what the economy has produced in terms of real wages for average workers.

Vastly inflated Housing prices,as set by the gouging and monopolistic real estate companies,are really what is now responsible for the expanding U.S.real estate crash.The hard reality is that U.S. housing is just not worth the steep prices that they were artificially inflated to by the greedy and predatory real estate companies!

EVERY THREE DAYS the USA squanders as much in Iraq as it would cost to provide health insurance for every uninsured American for one year.
* * * *

ROTFLMAO. Do your math again.

Correct Me if I am wrong but isn't that 778 Million for 3 days in Iraq?? I did it in My head so it's quite possibly wrong.

Larry

I think it's about that for one day, Larry. But RiR is right. Three days for the war is about 2.25 billion dollars which if divided by 300 million people is $7.50. There is no way anyone can get health insurance for one day at that price, much less a year.

Hey RAY, your pretty smart, I like you.

I have been saying that for 20 years. These dumbfuck liberals on here think they can save us. LOL

DOOMED.

Kuma

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What a piece of crap reporting.

The first line....With the U.S. economy in shambles,

Yeah, real shambles, the U.S. comsumer can only muster half a billion for the hottest video game. 250 million for the latest movie. Yeah, real shambles.

GDP is not even negative and the fricken sky is falling?

In the 80's we were being sold to the Japanese, now the arabs?

The fact is, the U.S. has and continues to be the best investment in the free world.

Yet, the doom and gloomers continue to push this crap.

Trillions in debt. Credit card purchasing everywhere. We ARE in trouble.

God damn the GOP for bankrupting this nation with its elective wars and mindless tax cuts.

God damn the GOP for bankrupting this nation with its elective wars and mindless tax cuts.

You probably can't do much about the war, but if you don't like tax cuts, send in a couple of grand extra next April 15.

If sending in a couple of extra grand next April 15 would help strengthen the overall US economy, then I would do so without complaint. Unlike all you selfish right wing whores who are concerned more about your own personal bottom lines than the overall well being of this great nation.

So, IOW, if you are forced to send in a couple of thousand dollars it's OK, but you won't voluntarily do it. Lotta love you got for "this great nation".

From a personal standpoint, I do good deeds because I want to, not because I am forced to.

Typical lib

Fuck off. You know damn well what I am saying. If their is a consensus that more money is need to strengthen this country then count me in. But no, I am not going to gratuitously send in extra money unless it is part of a larger thought out effort.
Now tell me Goatman, you asshole, would you be equally willing? I think not, - because you are selfish and feel entitled.

Trillions in debt. Credit card purchasing everywhere. We ARE in trouble.

Posted by Alexandrite at 2008-06-06 12:46 AM

We have been trillions in debt for the last 25 years. Credit Card purchases, well, that's on you.

Mato, I've been worried about you. How did that frontal lobotomy operation go?

LOL

Goatman makes the best point of all time. And what do the libs do? They can;t say a God Damn thing about it.

Because Goatman is right, and all libs are wrong.

Hey libs, SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Kuma

We have been trillions in debt for the last 25 years. Credit Card purchases, well, that's on you.

Posted by Mato at 2008-06-06 01:24 AM | Reply | Flag:


Longer than that, but the number is much higher now.

And I don't even own a credit card. Fuck those things.

very good Alexandrite, you got my respect for that one, very good.

no CC, very good. That means your very strong mentally, good for you.

Because I have new founded respect for you, I will reward you and not cuss you out for a week or so.

lol, ok?

Kuma

Cuss me out, I'm used to it.

To be fair I do have a mortgage, but I got a pretty sweet deal on it since I only had a credit card for a short time to get my credit rating very high. Then I dumped the card.

But I see a lot of people willing to spend money they don't have, on shit they don't even need. It's sad.

Ny personal economy is fine. I could care less about the national economy or anyone elses finances. I'm debt free, no mortgage. I'm going to buy up some nice price-reduced houses that stupid fucks lost to foreclosure. I may also buy a couple of huge repoed SUVs too!

Posted by fwthom at 2008-06-05 09:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

'Ny' personal finances are sound as well, but you see here is where you and I differ. Just because "I got mine" doesn't mean I don't care about others and wanting the best for the country as a whole, THAT is what patriotism is all about. It's got nothing to do with wearing a flag pin and saying "Well, I got mine, fuck everyone else".

I'm in the process of reading the federalist papers again. Haven't read them since highschool. I was talking to my neighbors son, a senior in high school. Said he had heard of them but they never read them in school. It's just the basic ideas the framers had in mind when building the Union. Not important enough to study in school. Liberals and Conservatives alike would benifit from reading them. Most of the discussions we here today were addressed back then. These guys had first class minds.

Ny personal economy is fine. I could care less about the national economy or anyone elses finances. I'm debt free, no mortgage. I'm going to buy up some nice price-reduced houses that stupid fucks lost to foreclosure. I may also buy a couple of huge repoed SUVs too!

Posted by fwthom


Don't keep working so hard ... you've already proven yourself to be a profound dolt. We get it.

Motel8 wrote,

"Fuck off. You know damn well what I am saying. If their is a consensus that more money is need to strengthen this country then count me in. But no, I am not going to gratuitously send in extra money unless it is part of a larger thought out effort.
Now tell me Goatman, you asshole, would you be equally willing? I think not, - because you are selfish and feel entitled."


I am not willing to give anymore to the government. I would however use that same money to give to charites, help my parents, invest in companies that hire employees, etc.

Bee Swell

Yeah, real shambles, the U.S. comsumer can only muster half a billion for the hottest video game. 250 million for the latest movie. Yeah, real shambles.

Posted by Mato at 2008-06-06 12:43 AM

Well, if not "shambles" then certainly "denial". Those video games are being tossed onto the funeral pyre of close to a trillion $$ in credit card/revolving debt! American's sense of entitlement will be their downfall. See, that's the problem with Capitalism - it creates the irresistable and artificial desire to accumulate and consume without providing a secure method of fulfilling it. The vast majority the people cannot comprehend the system that surrounds them anymore than a fish understands the oxygen levels in the water.

I wonder how the average Joe would live if he actually lived within his means.

PS, the problem with Socialism is that it results in envy. Which is pretty much the driving force behind Capitalism when you think about it...

Now tell me Goatman, you asshole, would you be equally willing? I think not, - because you are selfish and feel entitled."

Yes, Stupid of Goatman to feel entitled to the money he earns. Stupid. Don't you know it's not yours, it belongs to the Socialist Democracy of America.

"Clinton has pocketed $100 million over the last eight years. Barrack is the least elitist of ALL the candidates, which is why he is attacked in that Rovian manner."

Obama has money. Clinton was broke (like in the red) while in the White House. Nobody is attacking Obama for being elitist. The 'Rovian' was a nice bleeding heart touch. And your math is waaaay off.

EVERY THREE DAYS the USA squanders as much in Iraq as it would cost to provide health insurance for every uninsured American for one year.

Posted by nutcase

It is not the job of the US government (tax payers) to provide health care for anybody.

It is not the job of the US government (tax payers) to provide health care for anybody.

Posted by Sniper

But it will be the job of the US taxpayers to pay the hospital bills for all those people without insurance that use emergency medicine as primary healthcare then go bankrupt when they can't pay the bills. Unless we want to shut down more hospitals. Pay less today or alot tomorrow... its our choice.

But it will be the job of the US taxpayers to pay the hospital bills for all those people without insurance....

Correction, it is ALREADY the job of the US taxpayer to take care of this responsibility.

Correction, it is ALREADY the job of the US taxpayer to take care of this responsibility.

Posted by eberly

Not exactly disagreeing with me, are you?

How about the gov't starts gartnishing the slaries of anyone who can't pay their medical bills and bans them from voting or owning property till their bills are paid in full

no, I agree with you.

How about the gov't starts gartnishing the slaries of anyone who can't pay their medical bills and bans them from voting or owning property till their bills are paid in full

Posted by timbci

Interesting... essentially brings us back to 1787 when only male property owners were allowed to vote. Great idea.

But it will be the job of the US taxpayers to pay the hospital bills for all those people without insurance that use emergency medicine as primary healthcare

Posted by Hagbard_Celine

Don't look now but we have been doing it for quite some time. We pay for it in high medical bills and most counties pay hospitals for indengent health care.

Don't look now but we have been doing it for quite some time. We pay for it in high medical bills and most counties pay hospitals for indengent health care.

Posted by Sniper

LOL... which side of this argument are you on sniper?

Insure everyone and the per visit costs go down because all the previously uninsured don't have to wait until they have a gangrenous foot or something before they see a doctor... what costs more, a course of antibiotics, or an amputation?

"But no, I am not going to gratuitously send in extra money unless it is part of a larger thought out effort.
Now tell me Goatman, you asshole, would you be equally willing? I think not, - because you are selfish and feel entitled."

--MODER8

Wait a minute...Entitled? This from someone who believes the government should be provide health care?

Rove 101: Blame liberals for Reganomics.

Rove 101: Blame liberals for Reganomics.

Posted by igmoramus

If it works, don't fix it... lol.

depends which health plan you choose:

www.divus.cz

Posted by bellaspapa

I was really afraid of what I was going to see when I opened that jpeg, papa.

Like an old civil war battlefield amputation.. "bite on this stick and hold on to your f*ing hat!"

"Paulson just spent four days touring the Middle East, hat in hand, looking for investors to bail us out. Specifically, on Monday, Paulson met with heads of the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority, the world's largest "sovereign wealth fund" with roughly $875 billion in assets, and encouraged them to buy American businesses."

Let's all just ask our bishops and rabbis and swamis to make us all honorary Arabs! Arab plutocrats already own many of our banks and lend the West money to buy their oil. They own Harrad's in London. With the obscene profits they are getting due to our screwed up Cheney+Bush+Enron+Halliburton Energy Policy, soon they may as well own everything in the USA and EU.

What a great job Dubya! Bet your honoraria for visiting Araby in the future will be much bigger than your poppa's. Great job Cheney! Bet your pals on the ultra double-secret Energy Task Force you convened in 2001 will give you a hero's homecoming on Jan. 21, 2009!

Ok -- The prior post was mostly rhetorical. Intentionally rhetorical, but it does overstate the facts, which are these:

1. The US GDP is apx $15 trillion; valuation of US sovereign debt is (arguably) $9 trillion. The amount of US sovereign debt held by Arab and Asian sovereign investors is less than 10% of the US debt. (That's still a lot of money, but, theoretically not enough to destroy the bond markets if the sovereign investors made for the exits simultaneously -- we hope.)

2. A SIF with $875 billion in assets is HUGE!!! It could easily allow a buyer to acquire a majority of the shares of the following 5 companies: XOM (Exxon Mobil), GM (General Motors), WMT (Walmart), JPM (JP Morgan), MER (Merrill Lynch). But beyond that the companies would be pretty strapped unless they resorted to leverage.

In reality, the size of the worldwide "bond market" is estimated at $45 trillion. The size of the "stock market" is estimated at about $51 trillion. The world derivatives market has been estimated at about $480 trillion "face" or nominal value, 30 times the size of the U.S. economy. So a less than $1 trillion investment fund isn't going to buy all of the world's (or nation's) assets. Still, the final point remains valid -- our failed energy policy has made Arabs very, very wealthy as oil profits for Arab producers zoomed from $25/bbl in 2000 to $130/bbl last month!

Wow! They owe Bush and Cheney big time!

* Correction: "But beyond that the *SIF's* would be pretty strapped ..."

Further correction: With the $875 billion fund, the SIF could buy 50.1% of all of the 5 named US corporations AND 50.1% of GE (General Electric). Wow! That's a big SIF!

Like an old civil war battlefield amputation.. "bite on this stick and hold on to your f*ing hat!"

Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2008-06-06 11:08 AM


I would love to see a study on how chainsaws would have affected the outcome of the Civil War!

"How about the gov't starts gartnishing the slaries of anyone who can't pay their medical bills and bans them from voting or owning property till their bills are paid in full"

How about if all the people from families that can't afford health insurance refuse to join the military.

I would love to see a study on how chainsaws would have affected the outcome of the Civil War!

Posted by bellaspapa

Papa,

Interesting question although the invention of the combustible engine would have eliminated the need to own black people.

Why don't any of these candidates run on returning to a balanced budget, generating surpluses, and paying off our national debt?

How can we commit ourselves to universal health care when we have so much debt? I know some will argue that without the Iraq War we would have the needed funds, but even if we didn't have the Iraq War, does it make sense to make massive, new commitments until our existing ones are paid?

I thought we're supposed to forego new items until we can pay for our existing ones. Obama needs to join McCain on putting a stop to earmarks.

How can we commit ourselves to universal health care when we have so much debt?

The same way we can "commit" to a costly war that was unnecessary and that has not made us any safer at home yet is cost trillions we don't have.

Would it not be wiser to spend money we don't have on the health of actual Americans instead of dumping that money into the sands of the ME.

I would think that Universal Health Care would make America a thousand times more secure than fighting so-called Terrorists that we create in the deserts of the ME.

Sorry DonnerBoy, that's not what I meant. Again, I tried to avoid the "Iraq War" debate, but I guess I failed.

What I said was this: Even if we didn't have the Iraq War, does it make sense to make massive, new commitments until our existing ones are paid.

I'm not trying to discuss the merits of the Iraq War or Universal Health Care -- I'm making a broader point that before we can even discuss massive, new commitments, we should get our finances straight.

To put it another way, if someone is insolvent, should that same person be coming up with new ways to spend money he/she doesn't have?

The fact is we don't have too much debt. The federal government has $9 trillion in liabilities, but only half of that is held in non-public hands. And the same federal government has over $20 trillion in long-term assets such as land, highway systems, port facilities, airports, and so on. Were the federal government a private company, its credit rating would still be AAA. Credit card debt is $660 billion, but most of that debt is paid off each month; in less that 8% of households are they behind on installment debt payments. So, as in most things, the problems are concentrated in a slim minority of households. In fact, most credit card debt is of the corporate variety, and is paid via fed wire. Just the way it is. So don't be scared at the raw numbers without looking a little deeper.

But Ray and some of the other detractors are correct in one sense: entitlement spending is the gorilla in the room that nobody wants to address. Medicare spending especially, and Social Security spending will eventually swamp our ability to meet long-term commitments. They must overhauled somehow: benefits cut, monies invested at the better than the 2.1% they're getting now, or people made to work longer; preferably, all three. But good luck getting Obama or McCain to talk seriously about any of that. I'm hard put to come up with two more unattactive candidates with a more comprehensive ignorance of economics, or even of basic finance. But here we are.

BTW: what foreign countries are doing with their Sovereign Wealth Fund is exactly what the Social Security trust fund should be. It should be managed by a quasi-governmental agency that invests money in private companies all over the world, looking to generate above-market returns. Were Social Security to earn 6% per year, there would be no issues as to its solvency. But unfortunately it's only at 2.1%.

It's too good an idea to be ignored for much longer. But with Obama and McCain now leading their respective parades--retards both--I reckon it will be.

Well, first we'd have to balance our budget. Good luck with that.

Well, first we'd have to balance our budget. Good luck with that.

Posted by Danforth


YES WE CAN!! =)

It could be done, but yeah, it's an uphill battle -- both parties seem committed to earmarks and excesses.

Well, first we'd have to balance our budget. Good luck with that.

Posted by Danforth
* * * *

Ummm, no, actually we wouldn't have to. Dubai has the world's largest sovereign wealth fund, and finances its government deficits with investment returns.

And even were that not the case, it's irrelevant.

Let me see where does Dubai get their money from....

No don't tell me I can get it....

Oh yeah oil! Maybe we can learn a thing or two from them.

Sooo danni will taxing ed mcmahon help him with his mortgage?

I laugh whenever i hear how leftists are against mortgage securitzation. If you think Fannie, Freddie, and ginma mortgages are BAD for America, then you know JACK SHIT about the mortgage market.

Crying about being overmortgaged is far different then the ability to GET a mortgage.

Then while Obama cries about the mortgages people were able to get, he cries about the loans they can't get to trade in the Hummer for a Japanese hybrid!

So what does he want access to credit or no access to credit?

How many of u ranters have actullay contacted your electded representative(s)?

Let them know you are going to vote them out of office come next election cycle.

How many of u ranters have actullay contacted your electded representative(s)?

Let them know you are going to vote them out of office come next election cycle.

It's really disheartening to see so many fools who think the politicians give a crap what they think. Money talks. Not some nobody who can't pay his bills.

The fact is we don't have too much debt. The federal government has $9 trillion in liabilities, but only half of that is held in non-public hands.

If only it were that simple even leaving entitlements aside. Our fractional reserve banking system is leveraged to extremes never seen before. It creates an illusion of prosperity until it collapses. And collapse it will.

I laugh whenever i hear how leftists are against mortgage securitzation. If you think Fannie, Freddie, and ginma mortgages are BAD for America, then you know JACK SHIT about the mortgage market.

Dave is going to have to reassess that statement in a few years as mortgage defaults pick up momentum. In earlier times when bankers were loaning out their own money, they weren't reckless like they are now when they have government to offload their mortgages on. It's the old moral hazard issue.

But good luck getting Obama or McCain to talk seriously about any of that. I'm hard put to come up with two more unattactive candidates with a more comprehensive ignorance of economics, or even of basic finance. But here we are.

If you are paying attention to the spending frenzy in Washington. They have to increase spending to keep the economy from collapsing. Instead we're going to get runaway inflation. THEN the economy will collapse.

This is exactly why we have the government we have. Lazy jerks like Ray sit on their fat, hairy butts and do nothing but whine (and post on Drudge) like helpless women.

The politicians WILL listen, if +enough+ of us get off the couch, turn off "American Idol" (not me, I don't watch this excrement, since the Xtasy Channel is much more interesting)and other such drivel, and take action.

I've been warning whoever would listen on the evils of big government. Ruteger, you are no match for the political class who play Americans against each other. We have the government we have because ignoramuses like you keep patronizing them.

I've taken action to protect myself against what is to come. You won't see it until it hits you.

Ray, listen...

We still have the Vote (at least for now). These politicians don't get elected by magic. Someone has to vote them into office, right?

What is the one thing they fear the most? It is losing power. Okay, how do they lose power? By being voted out of office by their constituents.

Alas, I fear their constituents are too lazy or ignorant to remove them. they are too busy watching Oprah to be bothered by such trivial matters as the fusture of our country. I weep.