This should clear things up.

So rules don't mean shit then. Funny Dat Be.

Larry

"So rules don't mean shit then."

Only the real ones.

F=MA

If you put more heat into something than comes out, it's temperature goes up.

Maxwell's equations; Shroedinger's equation; You know, Larry; The Real Rules.

The Rise of the Machines is upon us.
This is good.

All rights come from the government. Starting with voting rights.

I think all the votes should be counted--if they really want to know the will of the people--have a revote--which is what they should have done in Florida in 2000. They don't really want to know what the voters want--that much should be clear.

The will of the people is secondary to party politics. Voting rights are only important if the government says your vote counts. The USSC proved that in 2000

537 Florida votes are more important than half a million votes in other states---2000 USSC.

Too bad this isn't a democracy.

Beer Hall Putsch

Florida and Michigan should have done the right thing before the Primaries.

This is not about "voting rights". It's about a party that allows itself to screw things up and then figures a way to come together.

I remember a couple of weeks ago posting a story about MI Dems reaching a delegate split deal (69-59) and I also remember that I made the comment that I hoped the DNC would accept the deal.

Today while watching RBC on TV I realized that Uncommitted is just as valid as a presidential candidate. I know believe the MI Dem party screwed up in their deal and that the DNC made things worse by accepting it. Basing this deal partly on exit polls and party on uncounted absentee ballots and write-ins seems sloppy to me.

The problem with the Michigan decision is that it doesn't square well at all with Obam's rhetoric of change, etc.

Hindsight is 20/20 but I thing Obama shoudl have accepted Hillary getting 36.5 delegates and Uncommitted 27.5 and then they would fight for those delegates. I am sure he would have gotten most of them anyways.

Based on what I saw today on TV, the Denver convention should be very fun and lively!

Beer Hall Putsch

Posted by cookfish

/And we have a Godwin!

Ickes is the guy who can take it to the convention. The credentials committee can offer an alternative, but then the vote is on the floor. But this next week there'll be a move in Super Dilettantes towards Obama, and Tuesday night he'll go over - whatever the number is now.

Both delegations will be seated in full because Obama will demand it, and both can change their votes. Ha!


Next Up: The b00b p'Troll will post links to Electoral Maps based on polls as far back as January, and many in February and March. Fact is, only November counts and by then Obama will have the lead and the Electoral college.

And Ickes voted to discredit the Michigan Primary for breaking the rules in the first place.

No wonder Hillary's campaign collapsed.

As an aside the Clinton supporters made complete and utter asses of themselves today including that toad Ickes.

Posted by Litlebritdifrnt at 2008-05-31 07:54 PM


Yeah--fuck those CLINTONISTAS we don't need their stinking votes in November. They can all go fuck themselves--Obama is far FAR ahead in the polls and everyone hates those HELLARYITES who make fools of themselves everyday.

Enjoy McCain dumbass.

"This is not about "voting rights". It's about a party that allows itself to screw things up and then figures a way to come together."

rules, schmules... heh?
this should've been settled a long time ago.
both states should stay home with their votes and a wet rag to think about what it is they did wrong.

and at the risk of repeating myself - this is the political party that could screw up any sunny day, any free lunch, any night out with two hookers and a credit card.

all the best

This is about petty Demo politics...get real, should the primary date matter or the fact that people go out and vote????...lots of egos on top of the party playing out their 'I get my way' games and total disrespect to the voters.. the only real reason Obama backed off Michigan and Florida is that he knew he would not fare well.. this is equal to the ludicrous situation of the the 'recount' situation in Florida.. in the end, there is no voter confidence with all of the manipulation of votes...

Bob - I have said this over and over and over again (pretty much as you have posted that fucking link over and over and over again). Polls this far out in the game mean NOTHING because the Obama/Clinton camps are still divided (although they should be more united after today), UNTIL THERE IS A POLL THAT PITS ONE CANDIDATE AGAINST ONE CANDIDATE THEN THE POLL IS WORTHLESS. Ya get it? And quit posting the same damn shit, damn it is getting annoying. BTW, why haven't you posted a thread on the alien video cause I really want to talk about that.

Hearing Ickes going about the drama of it, well it was sickening. Thankfully the fellow who spoke after him slapped him about the face and neck a few times, even a biting comment on pushing propaganda. Bravo I say, unfortunately I didn't catch his name.

yes the 600,000 people who only had one name on a ballot to choose from, out of a larger group that decided to change to republican to vote there, out of an even larger group who did not to vote because it wouldn't count. And this ass Ickes is talking about 'counting' those votes?

What a disingenuous asshole. And yes, the Clinton supporters showed that they are immature and made a ruckus, like they aren't being disingenuous too!

gal
what would romney do to mccain in other states? i see him as such a negative with the religious luggage he is carrying around.
and he has tried painting himself as a conservative when he didn't run his state that way.
that surely will be brought out along the way.

all the best

Sense,

I don't think McCain will pick Romney, for the reasons you state. I don't think he'll pick the governor of LA either. My guess is he'll go with the governor of FL, Charlie Crist.

Talking (or typing) to Buffaloed Bob expecting an honest reading is like taking your hand and putting it in a blender and turning it on and holding it there for a real long time and expecting no blood.

"Bob - I have said this over and over and over again (pretty much as you have posted that fucking link over and over and over again). Polls this far out in the game mean NOTHING"

It shows Obama is the second best candidate--can you understand that simple fact? They show Obama has the best chance of losing in the fall.

"because the Obama/Clinton camps are still divided (although they should be more united after today),"

You haven't been paying attention if you believe that. People like you who call Clinton supporters complete asses are the best vote getters McCain has.

"UNTIL THERE IS A POLL THAT PITS ONE CANDIDATE AGAINST ONE CANDIDATE THEN THE POLL IS WORTHLESS."

That is exactly what these polls do--the same people answer the same question for the polls.

"Ya get it?"

Do you? Obama is the second best candidate. Get it yet?

"And quit posting the same damn shit, damn it is getting annoying."

The polls change everyday.

"BTW, why haven't you posted a thread on the alien video cause I really want to talk about that."

Pretty soon. I'm sick of watching dems attacking dems and being stupid enough to put forth the second best candidate.

Posted by Litlebritdifrnt at 2008-05-31 09:55 PM

Talking (or typing) to Buffaloed Bob expecting an honest reading is like taking your hand and putting it in a blender and turning it on and holding it there for a real long time and expecting no blood.

Posted by LetUsPrey at 2008-05-31 10:49 PM | Reply


I must have missed your question in all that bullshit coming out of your mouth.

And what about Michigan? According to the Real Clear Politics average, McCain beats both Obama and Clinton by 3 points:

www.realclearpolitics.com

If McCain puts Romney on the ballot with him, expect that number to increase. Adding Edwards to the ballot could help Obama in the state.

Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2008-05-31 09:56 PM | Reply


According to their latest polls, Clinton is tied with McCain, and Obama is down 4 points.

The General is almost six months away. "Electability" is nothing more than armchair quarterbacking intended to support you candidate, it's meaningless. Polls that show anyone with a 2,3,4 point lead six months before the election are useless.

"Polls that show anyone with a 2,3,4 point lead six months before the election are useless."

Posted by argh at 2008-06-01 12:20 AM | Reply | Flag:


How about polls that show a candidate with a 51 EV vote lead?

The EV Vote lead you refer to is based on narrow percentages in the various states. Again, it's six months before the General Election, poll numbers can change by more than these margins in a single week. These results are meaningless.

poll numbers can change by more than these margins in a single week. These results are meaningless.

Or, using Bob's site, and going back in time from today:
May 31
Electoral Votes: Obama 276 McCain 238
May 18
Electoral Votes: Obama 237 McCain 290
Apr. 03
Electoral Votes: Obama 226 McCain 303
Apr. 01
Electoral Votes: Obama 205 McCain 324

well as you can see from the time I am getting in late and I was all set to make some comment about all this malarkey. but you know, there is no reason to not just sit back and watch the dems implode. do any of you think that the clinton supporters, particularly the women, are going to just rush over to obama now.
and as I said, I WAS going to make some comment, but why. the dems are doing themselves in on their own and none of this mccain is bush redux crap will fly anyway. at least not to people who can read.

well as you can see from the time I am getting in late and I was all set to make some comment about all this malarkey. but you know, there is no reason to not just sit back and watch the dems implode. do any of you think that the clinton supporters, particularly the women, are going to just rush over to obama now.
and as I said, I WAS going to make some comment, but why. the dems are doing themselves in on their own and none of this mccain is bush redux crap will fly anyway. at least not to people who can read.

Ickes scares the crap out of me. People like that SHOULD NOT BE ON THE RULES COMMITTEE! WTF!!! hopefully someone will pop his inflated ego and he will go back just yelling at his kids and beating his wife instead of trowing a temper-tantrum if he doesn't get his way. Makes me want to vomit.

I guess as a dem who lives in FL my delagate counts as only a half vote. I think my vote for McCain will count as a whole vote.

RJG It takes one to know one!

yeah sorry i got a little overboard there maybe. but seriously, the rules committee should not have advisors from any candidate there - it's supposed to be neutral.

and i still think it's funny that Ickles bit someone on the leg... as an adult!

Times change, and candidates change. Today, Ickes is working for Hillary Clinton."

THAT is one of the three or four worst things about Hillary's campaign. She and Bill are still in the 1990s.

Obama has won and will win. This is 2008 and after 20 Bush-Clinton-Bush years we are ready.

My guess is he'll go with the governor of FL, Charlie Crist.

The taibaptists have already said no. It'll be nteresting.

Now is the time for Obama to offer Hill the VP and time for her to take it.

Now is the time for Obama to offer Hill the VP and time for her to take it.

Posted by northguy3 at 2008-06-01 11:49 AM | Reply


Fuck That Fuck That that is NOT what this Country needs. a Vice President with a Former President upstaging the CURRENT(As for in January)President. She just needs to leave and be done with it.

Larry Mohr

"My guess is he'll go with the governor of FL, Charlie Crist"

That's where I'd place my bet as well.

"after Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton failed to get enough support to force their positions through"

LOL. One position is the position that everyone agreed to ahead of time: These primaries don't count.

The other position is a desperate to change the perviously agree to rules.

Why would either candidate have have to "force their position through" if their position is that the agreed upon rules should be followed?

If I were Obama my position would be that if the rules are to continually change, I'm quitting the game. Let the hacks try to spin it when a major candidate drops out claiming the process has zero integrity and having the facts to back it up. That might inspire real change.

"I guess as a dem who lives in FL my delagate counts as only a half vote. I think my vote for McCain will count as a whole vote."

LOL. Yes punish the country because some douchebag local politician in Florida decided to have hold an illegal primary and you decided to waste your time by voting in it.

The EV Vote lead you refer to is based on narrow percentages in the various states. Again, it's six months before the General Election, poll numbers can change by more than these margins in a single week. These results are meaningless.

Posted by argh at 2008-06-01 01:54 AM | Reply


Results have never changed that much in a single week. You lie. Obama is the second best candidate. Dems consistently put forth the second best candidate and they consistently lose.

Enjoy McCain.

BuffaloBob

Results have never changed that much in a single week. You lie. Obama is the second best candidate. Dems consistently put forth the second best candidate and they consistently lose.

I agree with you.
It's not that I'm pro-Hillary and anti-Obama.
It's that I'm pro-winning and anti-losing.

Hillary can beat McCain in the electoral votes in West Virginia, Pennsylvannia, Iowa, Kentucky and, most importantly, in Ohio. Obama's projections shows he loses the electorals in those states to McCain.

Stats:

No Republican has ever made it to the Presidency without winning the electoral votes in Ohio.
Hillary can win the electorals in Ohio and Obama cannot.

No Democrat nominee since 1916 has ever won the Presidency without being the one to win the primary held in West Virginia. Clinton won the West Virginia primary. Obama lost.

poll numbers can change by more than these margins in a single week. These results are meaningless.

Or, using Bob's site, and going back in time from today:

May 31
Electoral Votes: Obama 276 McCain 238 ties 24***Clinton 327 McCain 194 ties 17

May 18
Electoral Votes: Obama 237 McCain 290 ties 11***Clinton 279 McCain 242 ties 17

Apr. 03
Electoral Votes: Obama 226 McCain 303 ties 9***Clinton 203 McCain 304 ties 31

Apr. 01
Electoral Votes: Obama 205 McCain 324 ties 9*** Clinton 203 McCain ties 31

Posted by YAV at 2008-06-01 02:11 AM | Reply


Gee Yav--why not use ALL the numbers? The polls clearly show Obama to be the second best candidate. Kerry was at 307 on May 31 2004, and he lost---Obama is at 276, and you are cofident that is a winner. Clinton is at 327, and Kerry NEVER got that high. Fighting for the second best candidate is a uniquely Dem phenomena.

Enjoy McCain--how did you like Bush?

Califchris

"I agree with you.
It's not that I'm pro-Hillary and anti-Obama.
It's that I'm pro-winning and anti-losing."

Posted by CalifChris at 2008-06-01 03:13 PM | Reply

Exactly. Either Obama or Hillary would be fine with me, but let's put forth the best candidate for the fall. Putting forth second best and then wondering why you lost is not the best plan.

Enjoy Obama

CNN just announced Hillary won the Puerto Rico primary.

Exactly. Either Obama or Hillary would be fine with me, but let's put forth the best candidate for the fall. Putting forth second best and then wondering why you lost is not the best plan.

Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2008-06-01 03:21 PM

Well Obama has more delegates, but I'm sure that that means nothing to you right?

Gee Yav--why not use ALL the numbers?

Feel free. I posted re: volatility.

yeah it was settle by allowin 1/2 of the delegates to be seated------i'm still waitin for the "gore won the popular vote people"to admit clnton has lead in it now one thing though i never thought i'd see in my lifetime is a political party stack the deck so a black man could win--so there it is rev. wright
jasman