Dems Meet to Resolve Michigan, Florida Delegates

Eeeny, meeny, miney, Obama!

Who would have thunk it, a boring Rules Committee meeting attracting so much attention. How square is that man?

OMG! I'm gonna record this. Whenever i have trouble falling asleep I'll replay it.

UH, if a state moves up there primary then it is their own damn fault that their votes do not count...

AM I MISSING SOMETHING?

I am not an Obama fan, but Jesus H. Christ, give him the damn nod already. Even your boy Al Gore is not as big of a sore loser as Hillbilly.

"UH, if a state moves up there primary then it is their own damn fault that their votes do not count..."

Seaton beggs to differ.

I am hearing this correctly? Regular delegates can be punished, but superdelegates are untouchable? What a rip off. This comming from the party of the people, lol!

Hillary's got 13 supporters on the committee. Obama has 8.

Only 9 are uncommitted.

If they were ethical, the 13 Hillary and 8 Obama supporters would declare a conflict of interest and remove themselves from the decision making process.

Here's a list of the members of the DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee:

Chairs

Alexis Herman served in the Clinton administration as secretary of labor from 1997 to 2001, but has stayed neutral in the Democratic primary.

James Roosevelt, Jr. is president and CEO of Tufts Health Plan, a Massachusetts based HMO. He is also neutral.

Members

Donna Brazile is chair of the Democratic National Committee's Voting Rights Institute and is an adjunct professor at Georgetown University in Washington, DC. She is neutral in the Democratic primary.

Mark Brewer is chairman of the Michigan Democratic Party and has not endorsed a candidate.

Martha Fuller Clark is a member of the New Hampshire state senate who was defeated in a House race against then-incumbent John Sununu (R-N.H.). Clark backs Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.).

Ralph Dawson is an attorney with the international law firm Fulbright and Jaworski, where he is engaged in the practice of labor and employment law and civil litigation in the firm's New York office. Dawson has not endorsed a candidate.

Hartina Flournoy serves as assistant to the president of the American Federation of Teachers, where she focuses on public policy. She supports Clinton.

Carol Khare Fowler is chairwoman of the South Carolina Democratic Party and is an Obama backer.

Donald Fowler is professor of public administration and American politics at the University of South Carolina and served as national chairman of the Democratic National Committee from 1995 to 1997. He backs Clinton.

Yvonne Atkinson Gates was Clark County (Nev.) Commissioner from 1993 to 2007 and is neutral in the race.

Alice Germond has served as secretary of the Democratic National Committee since 2002 and has not backed a candidate.

Jaime Gonzalez, Jr. is an attorney and a member of the American Association for Justice and the Texas Trial Lawyers Association. Gonzalez backs Clinton.

Janice Griffin is president and CEO of Griffin & Associates, a government affairs consulting firm. She supports Obama.

Alice Huffman is president of the California State Conference of the NAACP and is founder and president/CEO of A.C. Public Affairs, Inc., a firm that specializes in public and grass roots advocacy. Huffman backs Clinton.

If they were ethical, the 13 Hillary and 8 Obama supporters would declare a conflict of interest and remove themselves from the decision making process.

Posted by Pirate at 2008-05-31 10:45 AM | Reply

If they were ethical, they wouldn't have set up a system where the politburo can reverse the decision of the electorate. But, then again, if Hillary had balls .... um .... nevermind.

Thomas Hynes is a member of the governmental relations group of Chapman and Cutler LLP, where he focuses on governmental relations, commercial law, state and local taxation and local government law. Hynes has endorsed Obama.

Harold Ickes. Harold Ickes is co-chair of Meyer, Suozzi, English & Klein, P.C.'s labor and government relations groups and manages the firm's Washington, DC office. Ickes served as deputy White House chief of staff in the Clinton administration from 1994-1997. Ickes is a senior adviser on Clinton's campaign.

Ben Johnson was an assistant to the president during the Clinton administration and backs Clinton.

Elaine Kamarck is a lecturer in public policy who came to the Kennedy School in 1997 after creating and administering the National Performance Review from 1993 to 1997. The former senior aide to Vice President Al Gore is backing Clinton.

Allan Katz is a Florida superdelegate and Tallahassee city commissioner who supports Obama. Katz is the only member of rules and bylaws committee who voted against sanctioning Florida and Michigan.

Eric Kleinfeld. Eric Kleinfeld is a Washington, DC attorney and Clinton supporter who worked on Howard Dean's 2004 presidential campaign.

David McDonald is an attorney at K&L Gates whose practice focuses on intellectual property litigation. He also regularly advises on matters of constitutional and statutory law relating to political parties and has served as lead counsel for the Washington State Democratic Party. He has not endorsed a candidate.

Mona Pasquil is Northern California co-Chair of Asian American and Pacific Islanders (AAPI) for Hillary and is former deputy political director of constituency outreach for Kerry-Edwards 2004. She is backing Clinton.

Mame Reiley is Democratic National Committee Women's Caucus chair and backs Clinton.

Garry Shay is chairman of the California Democratic Party Rules Committee and backs Clinton.

Elizabeth Smith is a member-at-large of the Democratic National Committee from the District of Columbia. She supports Clinton.

Michael Steed is managing director of Paladin Capital Group, a firm which provides equity capital to small to medium sized companies. Steed backs Clinton.

Sharon Stroschein heads Sen. Tim Johnson's (D-S.D.) office in Aberdeen, S.D. and has endorsed Obama.

Sarah Swisher is first vice chairwoman of the Iowa Democratic Party and an Obama endorser.

Everett Ward is a North Carolina superdelegate and Obama supporter.

Jerome Wiley Segovia is a Virginia superdelegate and founder of Latinos for Dean. He has not endorsed a candidate.
thehill.com

Harold "Fuck You" Ickes? Jeezus, why not put David Axelrod on the committee as an "honest broker"?

Do you liberal idiots really believe that Flop Ears as prident of the USA will be his own man. Kennedy, Stretch Polosi, little Dicky Durban and the top dems will run the presidency. Flop ears will be nothing more then a puppet.
Plus the top Dems will be taking there direction from Soros.

Oddly I find this all inspiring. There's debate, there's argument, different views being represented. There is passion.

If just some of it all gets harnessed, it's going to be one heck of a general election for the Democratic Party.

So glad you aren't a liberal idiot, Ozzieoswald. You'd be giving us a bad name.

UH, if a state moves up there primary then it is their own damn fault that their votes do not count...

AM I MISSING SOMETHING? -- AuntieSocial

Yes.

1) Politicians made these choices, not voters. Disenfranchising voters in response violates the central principle a democracy is supposed to stand for.

2) Florida Republicans, not Dems, moved the primary date. Florida Dems fought this, but are a minority in the state legislature, and lost. It is ridiculous on its face that the DNC is punishing Florida Democrats for the actions of Florida Republicans.

3) New Hampshire was supposed to go third:

No meetings, caucuses, conventions or primaries ... may be held prior to the first Tuesday in February or after the second Tuesday in June ... Provided, however, that the Iowa precinct caucuses may be held no earlier than 22 days before the first Tuesday in February; that the Nevada first-tier caucuses may be held no earlier than 14 days before the first Tuesday in February; and that the South Carolina primary may be held no earlier than 7 days before the first Tuesday in February.

(Rule 11 in the DNC "Delegate Selection Rules.") s3.amazonaws.com

Michigan moved its primary up in protest of New Hampshire's leapfrogging. Dean punished Michigan, but not New Hampshire.

4) In the long run, Iowa and South Carolina also violated the rules, but Dean chose to do nothing. According to Rule 11, Iowa could hold its caucus no earlier than January 14, but held it Jan 3rd. According to Rule 11, South Carolina could hold its primary no earlier than January 29, but held it Jan 26th.

5) Obama supporters have disseminated several myths about the rules, including the myth that seating the Michigan and Florida delegations would violate DNC rules, that Clinton violated the rules by allowing her name to appear on the ballot in Michigan, etc. noquarterusa.net
It is disturbing that the MSM has reported these as fact, but certainly consistent with its persistent pro-Obama slant.

Hopefully, the superdelegates will do the right thing and quash Dean's attempt to suppress the will of the voters and manipulate the rules in favor of his preferred candidate.

Phoenix-
I'll have to admit that Clinton's refreshingly bold and principled stance about this "disenfranchisement" is a breath of fresh air. Too bad she was mum on the subject and backed the Party rules until she saw it as her only chance to win the nomination, and suddenly it became a moral issue comparable to women's suffrage and the voting rights acts.

But better late than never, and not in the least the self-serving, opportunistic, situational ethics we come to expect from politicians.

Phoenix - Do you recall the Florida minority leader fighting so hard against the move? In case you don't remember, You might check the youtube.

"if a state moves up there primary then it is their own damn fault that their votes do not count..."

"Damn states. Who do they think they are anyway. We are the DNC and you don't mess with us! Do things our way and not a peep out of you. We will decide what's fair and what's not!"

The concerned parties pose for pictures:

img.timeinc.net

This is how I would solve this issue given what I've seen on TV:

1. Seat half the delegations of MI and Fl. Unfortunately thims means seating all SDs from those states.

2. Use fair reflection. In Florida this means Hillary gains 19 delegates. In Michigan it means Hillary gets 73 and Uncommitted gets 55. As was pointed out repeatedly, Uncommitted is a category. Obama voluntarily chose to take his name out to suck up to IA and NH. Those Uncommitted delegates would be in esence SD in that they would be up for grabs.

Someone tell me where I am wrong here?

Member-
What of those who didn't vote because they knew it wouldn't count? Wouldn't they be disenfranchised? All candidates understood the rules and agreed to them - that is, until Hillary needed the votes.

1. I messed up, if the delegation is cut in cut then Hillary would get 36 and Obama 28.

There is solution that will please anyone. I don't like Hillary, but based on what little I know of the DNC rules I would think that what I wrote above would be the logical choice. It would at least comply with the rules.

If this ain't fucked up. They broke the rules and now are getting a break on breaking the rules. What a farce.

Larry Mohr

It is ridiculous on its face that the DNC is punishing Florida Democrats for the actions of Florida Republicans.

---

The bill was sponsored by a Dem. The bill passed unanimously. Granted, there was an add on to the bill but if the Dems were so concerned about the DNC sanctions, they should have voted no.

They thought the DNC was bluffing and tried to call them on it. The DNC wasn't bluffing and FL got burned.

I've never posted here before, and please correct me if this is a stupid question, but is there any reason they can't do the Florida and Michigan primaries over again? With BOTH names on the ballots this time? Everyone will make damn sure to get to the polls this time. Then everyone's vote can count, and there will be no more room for bitching, right?

Regardless of any rules that might prevent it, it would seem to me to be the most logical and fair solution. Although we know how much that counts for anything.

PAY ATTENTION AMERICA...THIS IS THE PARTY THAT WANTS TO RUN YOUR COUNTRY! LOOK AT WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THE DNC AND THE COMMENTS ABOVE. THE DNC IS A DISASTER!!!

I've never posted here before, and please correct me if this is a stupid question, but is there any reason they can't do the Florida and Michigan primaries over again? With BOTH names on the ballots this time? Everyone will make damn sure to get to the polls this time. Then everyone's vote can count, and there will be no more room for bitching, right?

Posted by reedst at 2008-05-31 03:04 PM

Part of the Obama camp's objection to a Michigan revote was that the Clinton supporters who were Michigan Dem leaders proposed that the only eligible voters would be those who voted in the first primary. The DNC and most the national Dem leadership just want this over so that they can reassemble Humpty Dumpty.

love seeing hillary twisting and spinning on the fish hook. who's nothing in the democratic party now bitch? seeing your own party turn against you and your lavendar husband, PRICELESS!

Headline should read "DEMOCRATS MEET TO DISENFRANCHISE MI & FL VOTERS!"

Has a nice ring to it.

Bee Swell

Not counting the total votes in MI and FL actually violates the democratic party charter.

Bee Swell

This is Awesome!!!! For years the Dems have relied on "Special Victims Units" to get elected. If you were black "vote for us, we will make sure no mean white people tell you what is wrong with you and allow you to kill each other in the streets" or Gays, "Yes, we will force America to accept you and give you all you ask" and Latinos "Yes, we stole the southwest and you all can come over as long as you vote for us" and Environmentalist "No, we will never allow drilling or refineries and force Honest Americas to pay 10 bucks a gallon, just keep voting for us"..Now, we see the Democratic party Balkanizing, Just like they had hoped they could do to America...I only hope it happens to them first..

I remember a couple of weeks ago posting a story about MI Dems reaching a delegate split deal (69-59) and I also remember that I made the comment that I hoped the DNC would accept the deal.

Today while watching RBC on TV I realized that Uncommitted is just as valid as a presidential candidate. I know believe the MI Dem party screwed up in their deal and that the DNC made things worse by accepting it. Basing this deal partly on exit polls and party on uncounted absentee ballots and write-ins seems sloppy to me.

The problem with the Michigan decision is that it doesn't square well at all with Obam's rhetoric of change, etc.

Hindsight is 20/20 but I thing Obama shoudl have accepted Hillary getting 36.5 delegates and Uncommitted 27.5 and then they would fight for those delegates. I am sure he would have gotten most of them anyways.

Based on what I saw today on TV, the Denver convention should be very fun and lively!

In the democrat party all rules are made to be broken, the same way they will run the country.