This fiasco courtesy of the Texas Child Protective Services has been questionable since day one. I hope that the bureaucrats responsible for this farce not only lose their jobs but get prison time.

I say either prove the father fucked the child or return the children to the families.

Ok==so there are 19 underage girls getting pregnant from perverts...


Murphy

People don't understand what our Government is morphoing into.

Innocent until "proven" guilty, only applies to rich powerful politically correct people.

OJ and Bush can murder. Bush can torture, maime, pillage and plunder millions of people and trillions of dollars. It goes with the title.

The FLDS sect may be a bunch of crazies, but Government intervention in their lives is worse.

There should be NO RELIGIOUS TEST. But instead they are targeted while Shrub surrenders responsibilities and hard cash "more favored" religious fanatics.

"Ok==so there are 19 underage girls getting pregnant from perverts...
Murphy"


Did you even read the article Murp? Even if you did does the supposed fact that 20 something alledgedly underaged mothers or pregnant justify tearing 463 children from their families based on indications? Facism is alive and well in Texas and you can't blame Bush for this because the states have been been overreaching their authority for years.

Even if the mothers are underaged they should not be forcibly separated from their husband, children or parents if that is not their wish.

If one 14yo is responsible enough to be tried as an adult for murder in Texas than an 18yo should be allowed to stay with her family even if she was married underaged. There needs to serious criminal intent before trying to jail the husband. In just about every country in the world 16 is the age of consent. 14-16 is considered underaged but a valid complaint needs to filed by the girl or her parents for authorities to act but they would never do the stunt that was performed in Texas.

You guys really suck. That whole community was either actively participating in or aiding and abetting child molestation. The fact that nobody would come clean about the ages of the children justifies what the police did in removing all the children.

Furio's argument that if you can be tried as an adult at 14...etc. is a legitimate one.

too bad he couldn't side on saying that a 14 year old is too young to be tried as an adult rather than a 14 is just old enough to stick one's redacted into.

That whole community was either actively participating in or aiding and abetting child molestation.


Where's the proof?

The burden of proof resides with the accuser.


PostScript - Don't get me wrong. I find cults like this to be creepy and I highly suspect that young girls ARE being popped against their will. However, my suspicions are based primarilly upon gut-feel, which is insfuuficient as evidence in a court-of-law (Sharia courts notwithstanding).

Where's the proof?

A girl called up claiming to be abused. When they got to the compound, the girl was nowhere to be found. The actions of the members led police to believe the girl was being hidden and held against her will.

And its not just the girls that are getting molested.

"The burden of proof resides with the accuser."

For conviction yes, for the right to protect children I think the standard is much lower.

Hagbard,

before you get all self-righteous my whole point is you need to find a crime before basically destroying the lives of 700 people. It's nothing more than a witch hunt and an opportunity to break up the polygamists.

Do you think they'd imprison a whole yuppy condo association in Austin because someone called in a reported rape there on the phone?

Hagbard,

When they got to the compound, the girl was nowhere to be found. The actions of the members led police to believe the girl was being hidden and held against her will.


Good! Then get a frickin' warrant and search the place with fine-toothed comb.


Look, I abhor what this cult likely is. However, the burden of proof ALWAYS resides on the accuser. I am glad the state has taken interest in this case and should the allegations prove true I will be the first to call for these sickos' heads.

For conviction yes, for the right to protect children I think the standard is much lower.


You broach an iffy topic.


On the one hand, I am all for protecting kids.

However, I also abhor the state deciding, without trial, that certain parents are unfit to parent.

I would very much like to hear what RiR has to say regarding your comment - he proclaims being the "benefactor" of more than 1 bad marriage. Thus, he probably has first-hand knowledge of how the state deals with parenthood issues.


You know what? Fuck that! This topic doesn't need RiR. What is needs is for 101Chairborne to mock your mullet, mustache and sleeveless jean jacket!

Unfortunately when it comes to child molesting in this country today; you are guilty until proven guilty. This whole nasty situation is just a power grab by CPS. All the need to do is scream "Pertect tha chiluns" and all the knee jerks come out and condemn.
There is not any interest in the facts of the case you don't need em do ya you just see a bunch of freeks that you don't like and you want em to go away. Guess what that is called bigotry.

Unfortunately when it comes to child molesting in this country today; you are guilty until proven guilty.

Posted by Salaryman at 2008-05-15 09:58 AM | Reply


Strewth!

Dats why I luft to live where I does!

The only reason you guys think this 'fascism' is alive and well in Texas is because Texas has more of everything.

"Strewth!" was a nice touch.

The authorities know who the caller was. It was a prankster, adult male female impersonator.

"It was a prankster, adult male female impersonator."

Niceville, up to his old tricks again.

Lets see, she is 18 yrs and a few months when she gave birth. How old was she when the old fart screwed her? What are the odds she got inpregnated on the first shot?

With the exception of Snippy, it seems that all the Rtards are on the side of the perverts. How DR!!!!

Drop a neutron on it and drill all the oil out. That's the only thing this cancre of a state is good for.

With the exception of Snippy, it seems that all the Rtards are on the side of the perverts. How DR!!!!

Posted by axe

Damn good arguement axe.

Three of the fathers have sued for the return of their children. They lived in separate houses in the compound with their wives in monogamous relationships, and all were of age throughout those relationships.

Their complaint. Why should they be penalized? How did their children suffer if a neighbor had a sexual relationship with someone under age? Can the state just come in and rip apart families without specific allegations?

The female judge is acting in a very unseemly way, without consideration for the welfare of the children she is purportedly trying ton help. Children under four or five experience great emotional trauma being removed from their primary caregivers. Yet, she did this.

She even took children away from nursing mothers, a matter which cannot be corrected after this lapse of time. What a hateful bitch that judge is.

The non-nursing kids who had previously had healthy diets are now fed the junk food that constitutes the standard American diet, and are sickened as a result. But I suppose they'll get used to it.

What a travesty of "mass justice."

Part of the complaint addressed the judge's attitude, criticizing lawyers who spoke up for their clients, and praising those who didn't, and not providing an opportunity for a presentation distinguishing individual situations. It would be a wonderful outcome if the judge were sent to prison for civil rights violations under color of office if that were posisble.

Great harm has been done. And for what? If there were complaints, then they should have been addressed considering the situation of each child, and alternative provisions should have been made to provide proper care to every child removed.

Why are the women being held captive?

It's an outrageous situation.

First Texas "provided for" the welfare of the children in the Waco whacko case by killing them, and here it provides for the welfare of the children by separating even very young ones from their caregivers and removing infants being breast fed from their mothers.

Where's "La Leche League?" Where are the women's organizations? Why is there a resounding sound of silence?

Knowing local Texas politics and shenanigans, there is a likelihood that the entire raid was contrived to enable some group of conspirators, politicians and officials and a couple of monied collaborators, to obtain the ranch land and improvements for a low price. Nothing is beyond these "scalawags." Ain't much worse you can call an unreconstructed Southerner than "scalawag."

All of the other explanations might just be contrived bullshit to justify the real agenda, a money grab. That doesn't mean that some of the deluded participants are not sincerely wrought up. But behind the raids are possibly eminences gris. And they are probably unprincipled "bad guys" by any stretch of the imagination. That's Texas for you.

Cherchez l'argent.

Why are the women being held captive?

It's an outrageous situation.

Posted by Johnson

They're being held "captive" because they are co-conspirators to an ongoing crime. Don't you get that?

"They're being held "captive" because they are co-conspirators to an ongoing crime. Don't you get that?"

Hagbard,
Oh that's really great. So destroy the lives of what 700 people on the suspicion of a crime? What conspirators by association? Seriously even if a 17yo was married that's not reasons enough for the action. In case you forget 17 is the age of consent in Texas and 16 is the age in most US states. Stop being a drama queen.

First Texas "provided for" the welfare of the children in the Waco whacko case by killing them, and here it provides for the welfare of the children by separating even very young ones from their caregivers and removing infants being breast fed from their mothers.

Posted by Johnson

It was the Clinton administration that pulled the raid in Waco that killed all in the compound, not the state of Texas. Lets all hear it for Reno and BATF! YAAAaaaa! Do I hear another Ya for using great big tanks? YAAAaaaa!

Say what you will about Texas but there hasn't been a death from this raid.