Whenever something like this happens I always say that they should give the guy a freeby or freebies for various crimes that equal 27 years in prison. If he did the time, he should do the crime.

such a sad tale... and since this story is not the first though one of many, such sad tales...

i was in my mid-college years then... i cannot imagine losing out any chance for normalcy in life... a family, children, a career, a life... on and on...

i can't fathom the emotions he and his family have gone through in the decades since his incarceration.
particularly with the police seemingly doing their best to jail an innocent man.

and he's black... as are most of the others released with the advent of dna testing.
go figure.
that this occurred in texas is just icing on this horrible cake.

all the best.

Fortunate he didn't get a death sentence.

But, as said above, a profoundly sad story.

Heard James Lee Woodard interviewed this morning on NPR. I couldn't believe what a quiet, sensitive and sensible person he seemed to be.

Spending 27 years in prison is more like a sentence of
if you survive that long" sentence. In far to many cases, even a short sentence can be for so many reasons, "life changing". Your life, their lives anyones. To live in prison is like living nowhere else. Where else can a misinterpreted look result in a severe beating to death.

Anyone that allows such a false imprisonment should have both civil and criminal penalties.

Where are our fascist posters? The ones that will suggest that all black men look alike, are interchangeable, and if they don't want 27 years in The Slam should know better than to be black. herm

Where are our fascist posters? The ones that will suggest that all black men look alike, are interchangeable, and if they don't want 27 years in The Slam should know better than to be black. herm

Asking where the stereotypers are as he stereotypes a group of people himself. Does this qualify as a self retorting retort?

"Does this qualify as a self retorting retort?"

Posted by goatman

yes 1

no 0

However, self-retorting is hyphenated.


And congratulations grandpa.

My step grandson is a few months past three; His sister a recent arrival.

Good thing he didn't get the death penalty.

When I hear of such cases I am reminded that our justice system is not about truth, its about justice. A prosecutor does not have to care if the conviction he or she is seeking is true in the sense that the accused actually committed the crime. All that is needed is to convince twelve people that it is possible the accused did the crime.

How many more are we going to find, not only in Texas but also elsewhere in this country? What I however find most interesting is that rarely, if ever, does the prosecutor admit that the freed person is really innocent.

Another victim of an all white jury.

"... our justice system is not about truth, its about justice. All that is needed is to convince twelve people that it is possible the accused did the crime."

It seems to me that this is neither truth nor justice, but something like the Famous Surgeon perpetrating a historic operation in which, unfortunately, the patient died. Would that surgeon then admit that the deceased didn't really need a testicle transplant?

Than, incidentally, would be capitalist, non-socialist medicine at its very finest. herm

Thanks Zatoichi for the bird pic link... will add it to my wallpaper collection... though i can't identify it.

Probably most if not all prosecutors equate the number of their convictions to their success or lack of it.

Where else can a misinterpreted look result in a severe beating to death.

Try any one of third world countries in africa, or wherever the weak are not protected by someone else who is stronger.

"though i can't identify it."

Great Heron.

Saw the story on 60 Minutes last evening, the District Attorney, Wade was his name, his body should be dug up and that BASTARD should be tried and then LYNCHED!!!

This was an act of Racism, even though some of the freed men are white this was RACIST. The fact that 250 more cases under review is a indictment of the whole Justice system in Dallas County, it is not a pretty picture.

Solution to the immigration problem in the southwest, give Texas back to the Mexican Government and have all of the illegal immigrants have them be required to move there in 5 years. Give them each some Government land, an we can call it Northern Mexico, It works for me......

Been to Texas it ain't worth keeping, it is a stain on our Nations Morals...l

Rightwingers and Texans, - Lord have mercy on this nation. Is there any abomination they have not perpetrated on this country?

You libs really enjoy riding your high horse. Instead of blaming the White man or Texas why not round up the usual suspects, Bush and Cheney and blame them. Bush was from Texas, that's all the proof libs need.

I blame Texas. And I blame the idiotic rightwing mentality which seems to permeate that State as manifested in both GWB and Cheney.

This is a perfect example of why the death penalty should have be done away with decades ago.

...and some of you wonder why Rev Wright might be a bit angry at the justice system (govt.)?

"Woodard is the 17th man from Dallas to be exonerated by DNA evidence. Nearly all are black. And the district attorney's office is predicting that Woodard won't be the last."

Gee, I wonder why?

When I saw that this happened in Texas, I knew the knee jerking would be felt all across cyberspace. I was right. There are so many here who hold irrational hatreds, one of which is of Texas. These people's minds are so negatively twisted that they view this story as a blight on Texas. I see it as a good thing.

People are wrongly convicted in every state. It is not unique to Texas. However, it looks like Texas (at least Dallas County) is taking strong measures to exonerate people wrongly convicted. How many of the other 49 states in this great nation are taking such strong measures to ensure that the wrongly convicted in their prisons are freed? Texas is to be commended for taking these actions. You knee jerk jerks will have to go twitch about something else. And for your own sanity, drop the irrational hatred that consumes your lives. It isn't healthy.

"Woodard is the 17th man from Dallas to be exonerated by DNA evidence. Nearly all are black. And the district attorney's office is predicting that Woodard won't be the last."

Gee, I wonder why?

Because Texas is leading the nation in exploiting new DNA technologies to ensure that their wrongly convicted are freed?

Texas is to be commended for taking these actions.

Indeed Texas should be looked upon as a role model for other states to follow.
Texas seems more than willing to admit it was wrong when DNA testing proves that to be the case and the Texas legal system seems eager to work together with the "Innocence Project of Texas" to at least provide a ray of hope to innocent men who may have been wrongly incarcerated on faulty evidence.

How many other states are also trying to help any of their falsely convicted prisoners with DNA testing? I'd like to know. I'd also like to know why some of the libs on here think this is a mark against Texas and Texans when it's an action Texas has taken to help those who may have wrongly been imprisoned. Sounds as though it's a good and honorable action Texas is taking, not something for Texas to be put down for doing.

This scum should have been executed a long time ago. After all vengence is vengence. Who the hell cares if an innocent man is executed? Just so long as they get it eh 90% right.

Sincerely,

The Right.

Here's something we can kind of thank Bush for. If it hadn't been for him the Democrats would not have been swept into office in Dallas County last November giving us the new Democrat DA and lots of new Democrat judges because of straight ticket voting.

If this hadn't happened these innocent people would still be in jail. It's not a Republican and Democrat thing, it's an unequal justice for some kind of thing. Go back far enough and you'd find that it was the Democrat DA's and judges in the South who exploited the racist, tough on crime vote to get into office and stay there.

So does the system work? On balance and in the long term I'd say it does but then I'm not an innocent person thrown into jail for twenty seven years or even executed because of the politicization of the justice system. It should be remembered that there's plenty of reason to believe that the federal justice system was corrupted by Bush and Gonzo and for several years they presided over a corrupt and dysfunctional Texas justice system that resulted in over 150 executions.

It's not a Republican and Democrat thing, it's an unequal justice for some kind of thing

Absolutely correct. Hell, we had a thread last week about a lawyer who knowingly allowed a man to stay behind bars. At least with the people in this story there were 12 people who convicted a man on evidence provided. The did not know better.

This scum should have been executed a long time ago. After all vengence is vengence. Who the hell cares if an innocent man is executed? Just so long as they get it eh 90% right.

Sincerely,

The Right.

predictible knee jerk. *yawn*

Sincerely

Thinking people of the world

Been to Texas it ain't worth keeping, it is a stain on our Nations Morals...l

Posted by celisary


Well Just the opinion of this Texan. The rest of the USA can just fuck right off. We would probably do better if we did not have to carry so much dead weight.

And if you would be so kind sir as to tell us what Shangrila Utopian paradise it that you reside in?

And if you would be so kind sir as to tell us what Shangrila Utopian paradise it that you reside in?

I've asked him that before but he would not answer. Too ashamed of the place, I guess.

Which begs the question: How many Innocent People has this Fucking State Executed? Wade, of Roe vs. Wade is an evil asshole, which is not unusual in his profession.

Which begs the question: How many Innocent People has this Fucking State Executed? Wade, of Roe vs. Wade is an evil asshole, which is not unusual in his profession.

A couple of years ago one of these anti-capital punishment groups (maybe Amnesty -- I don't remember) reviewed the cases of executed criminals of which there was DNA available still. Of all the ones they tested, they did not find a single man who was unjustly executed.

Of the rest without DNA available, it is unknown of course.

Well Just the opinion of this Texan. The rest of the USA can just fuck right off. We would probably do better if we did not have to carry so much dead weight.

And if you would be so kind sir as to tell us what Shangrila Utopian paradise it that you reside in?

Posted by Salaryman at 2008-05-06 09:57 AM


I agree with you. Fuck off. The United States sure doesn't need any more Texans or any part of Texas. Stupid people, dirty skies, punk assed Presidents. You have my vote for secession, either way you want to call it.

Blob I will ask you the same question, where do you live?

And if it was even a remote possibility for Texas to leave the Union I would line up to be the first to vote us out.

"If he did the time, he should do the crime."
What an ignorant liberal comment.

"Rightwingers and Texans, - Lord have mercy on this nation. Is there any abomination they have not perpetrated on this country?"
See above.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. And take your nutjob rightwing ideologues with you.

"Blob I will ask you the same question, where do you live?"

Anyplace in America is better than the shithole Texas, so what does it matter?



"And if it was even a remote possibility for Texas to leave the Union I would line up to be the first to vote us out."

Start a petition. Have other states sign it too. If all the States agree--or even a small majority, there won't be any war. I wouldn't fight to keep Texas in the Union, and I would definitely lobby for others to take the same position.

Notice how no one will chime in and fess up to the shithole they live in?

Here is a clue for you idiots Texas is large and diverse. Is it perfect? No. Is the hellhole that you won't even admit to perfect? No.

So please all you Texas haters fess up; what paradise do you live in?

Salaryman

Why do you ask? What difference does it make to the point at hand? If you come up with an answer that makesw any sense, I will gladly tell you which state I live in. But again--what difference does it make where anyone else lives?

You think the rest of the country is shit, and we return the favor. Talk to your neightbors--get a petition going and GTFO of America. You have my support.

"GOATMAN".....For you to imply that the state of Texas is the reason these men are been set free is a fuck outright LIE!!! Yes you asshole you are a fucking liar. The "INNOCENT PROJECT", has been on Texas's Ass for years, only because Dallas County now has a African-American District Attorney, has this been giving the light of day. You might try to find a Right Wing website that will allow you to get away with you fucking lies it won't happen here.....By the way I am from Hawaii and now living in California, something you never ask of me before, so fuck off!!!

"SALARYMAN'.....You didn't have to tell anyone that you were from Texas, your comments were enough, you RACIST PRICK, by an by I am from Hawaii now living in California, please stay
where are, we don't need dumb fucking rednecks coming to our State......

Quite an inference Celisary, could you point out specifically a racist comment?

I agree with you. Fuck off. The United States sure doesn't need any more Texans or any part of Texas. Stupid people, dirty skies, punk assed Presidents

Another sour graper.

Anyplace in America is better than the shithole Texas, so what does it matter?

So you are also too ashamed to say what state you live in, bOoB. Not surprising at all.

Notice how no one will chime in and fess up to the shithole they live in?

It's true. Strange how only Texans are proud enough of the state they live in to declare it. And the rest of the weenie-weasels who are too ashamed to admit their little turd of a state hide behind that and throw rocks at Texas.

Funny stuff. Cowardly, yes, but funny.

Why do you ask? What difference does it make to the point at hand?

I think he wonders if you are as proud of your home as Texans are of theirs.

Apparently not. But then again, any state that would allow the alien smokestack on the moon bOoB within its borders has to be fucked up.

...so fuck off!!!

Well since you asked me so nicely, celery stalk. . .*grin*

BTW, better check your meds. I appears it's time for your dose, isn't it?

We have a cool flag.


The coolest although Alaska's is a very close second.

"The coolest although Alaska's is a very close second."

Posted by goatman

Ever see an Alaska flag bikini?
I thought not.

To be fair Celisary, did fess up Hawaii and California. Never been to Hawaii so I can't comment but I am sure it is nice. California is nice too but a little on the dry and cold side for my tastes. As far as this discussion goes I think Cali lives in a glass house for certain.

.....By the way I am from Hawaii and now living in California, something you never ask of me before, so fuck off!!!

People who have been to my house and know California real estate tell me that the home I paid $105k for 4 years ago would cost over $600k in California.

No wonder you're so pissed off all the time, celery. I would be too if I had to succomb to such outrageous real estate prices. Not to mention have to pay income tax on top of that! Or should I say, "NOT TO MENTION HAVE TO PAY INCOME TAX ON TOP OF THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

California is nice, but if I was to pay that much for real estate, I would at least want a guarantee that it will not move, wiggle, and shake

Yeah TEXAS!

I just luv yer Expressway to DEATH!

Too bad you couldn't kill this one fast enough!

oh, well, better "luck" next time!

Some day you will make it to the 21st Century.

So please all you Texas haters fess up; what paradise do you live in?

Posted by Salaryman at 2008-05-06 11:39 AM

California ...

Oregon.

Yo, Monte...I know y'all out there on the left coast eat lots of tofu and drink Perrier and latte, but one point I CAN agree with you is doing away with the death penalty. I don't trust lawyers and that includes prosecutors and judges! (Sorry.) Most of them are in the game to WIN...justice be damned. I cringe to think of Nifong prosecuting me in a capital murder case and I'm pretty confident some innocent people were executed before DNA. Just look at how many have been freed from death row since its use. You can't convince me that some percentage of them would have been put to death if DNA hadn't come along.

P.S. Oregon is a paradise? Pretty...but a paradise?

Whoops! Sorry!

I'm not sure I'm following you, Jest. I agree with the problem of how criminal lawyers don't necessarily seek justice, just wins, but I'm not sure where that came from.

And I'm not sure where I called Oregon a paradise. I like it. But oceans and skiable mountains are very important to me. I don't think it would be everyone's cup of tea.

And while I don't like Texas, it is primarily because of Texans, not the geography of the state. (Though much of that doesn't appeal to me either - other than the mountains that are in, I think, the northwest part of the state.)

I see now how you got the word "paradise." My oversight.

Excerpt from the article:

Perhaps the most unsettling fact in all of this is that out of the 40 cases that have been reviewed so far, there have been 17 exonerations. That's an error rate of more than 40 percent. When asked how many more exonerations can be expected, Watkins says, "A lot."

Jones' stepfather told the police that on the night she was murdered, Woodard had come to his house looking for her. That identification, which the stepfather now concedes was incorrect, steered the police toward Woodard, and they slapped him into jail.

When it's roundup time in Texas and the bloom is on the sage, how I long to be in Texas, I'd work for any wage.

You folks can click the link here.

GOOD MORNING, CELISARY!!!***!!!!!!

YOU ARE BETTER AT WAKING ME UP THAN THE CAFFEINE IN MY FIRST CUP OF COFFEE !!!!!!!
YEAAAAAHHHHH!

Posted by nutcase at 2008-05-06 10:05 AM

Which begs the question: How many Innocent People has this Fucking State Executed? Wade, of Roe vs. Wade is an evil asshole, which is not unusual in his profession.

And while I don't like Texas, it is primarily because of Texans, not the geography of the state. (Though much of that doesn't appeal to me either - other than the mountains that are in, I think, the northwest part of the state.)

Posted by mOntecOre

How many actual Texans do you know? Seriously there are an estimated 23,507,783 Texans.

A small sampling, admittedly. But judging by the Texans on this site, the jackasses that Texans tend to elect, and the fucked up laws they pass, my sampling appears valid.

I am not trying to say every Texan is a backwards asshole. Just most of them. ;D

Poor Texans!

They have to live in Texas!

I just luv yer Expressway to DEATH!

Which one?

So please all you Texas haters fess up; what paradise do you live in?

Posted by Salaryman at 2008-05-06 11:39 AM

California ...

Nice, but I like having the same house on stable ground at 1/6 the cost.

Salaryman

Since you live in Texas -- shat are a few of the best cities in Texas to live (that don't cost a fortune in housing)? I'm checking out a few different states for possible places to eventually move. California is too expensive and getting way too crowded. Does Texas have high property taxes? What is the average for a 2-3 bedroom home with a one and one and 1/2 baths? Not too big a town but not some border or transient town either. Any suggestions on a few cities? Not a place that's too humid. I like rain too and like nearby lakes and stuff. I've had enough of the dry desert climate in California.

shat = what

Geeze, Goat, your posts always pop up right just before mine and I never even see them when I start to write. Psychic or something?

Oregon.

Oregon is nice too. Not as diversified as Texas, but I don't visiting there.

Texas has the mountains, the high plains, the deserts, the piney woods, the hill country, and the ocean. Absolutely gorgeous.

Zat

My same question at 3:15 p.m. goes for you too.

And while I don't like Texas, it is primarily because of Texans

It was either your attitude or you did not encounter a real Texan. There are a lot of yankee posers. I've lived here most of my life and have been all over the country and I've never met friendlier people. You just have to be polite, too.

I was at my local small town bank a few years ago standing in the single queue waiting for an old blue haired grandma to finish showing the teller pictures of her grandchildren. No big deal. I wan't in a hurry. But the yankee wannabe Texan behind me was. He shouted up to the old lady to please get out of the line if she was through with her transaction. The manager of the bank heard that and came out and told the guy that if he didn't want to wait, he could take his money somewhere else and he would help him close the account.

Then we have these people who move down from the rust belt and bitch and whine how hot it is, how slow people move, etc. That tends to piss texans off. They wonder, "if it's so bad, why are you here?

Montecore -- you strike me as one of those people or the guy in the bank teller line. I can see why you don't like the people in that case. Your loss

other than the mountains that are in, I think, the northwest part of the state.)

LOL. YOu claim to hate the state yet you don't even know it. The NW part is as flat as a pool table. Mountains are W and SW

Psychic or something?

Coffee break

Good thing he didn't have to depend on the testmony of a lawyer.

Coffee break

Strong rig coffee. That would probably get my day going! Save me some in a thermos. (grin)

"Zat

My same question at 3:15 p.m. goes for you too."

Posted by CalifChris


Austin in the 60's.

Montecore -- you strike me as one of those people or the guy in the bank teller line. I can see why you don't like the people in that case. Your loss

And if it was Celisary in the bank queue mentioned above, I can just see him yelling at the top of his lungs, "GET OUT OF THE LINE YOU OLD BLUE HAIRED CUNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Again, Celery's loss, but definitely Texas' gain not having him here.

If it was da bOoB, the conversation would be like this: "Move on duMMy. All rights to stand in this line come from the bank. Again, I see you have nothing to add to your transaction"

"Move on duMMy. All rights to stand in this line come from the bank. Again, I see you have nothing to add to your transaction"

"Move on duMMy. All rights to stand in this line come from the bank. Again, I see you have nothing to add to your transaction"

"Move on duMMy. All rights to stand in this line come from the bank. Again, I see you have nothing to add to your transaction"

"Move on duMMy. All rights to stand in this line come from the bank. Again, I see you have nothing to add to your transaction"

Some day you will make it to the 21st Century

If that's where you live, I'll stay here in this temporal zone and call it whatever make you happy, donnyboy.

"It was either your attitude or you did not encounter a real Texan....

Posted by goatman at 2008-05-06 03:23 PM"

You could be right. Some of the people who bugged me the most were ladies in fancy Plano restaurants who were loud, obnoxious, with big, bleach-blonde hair. Maybe they were actually from some other red state.

I met some cool people there, on 6th Street in Austin, but everyone of them was a transplant who moved there to play music, attend Univ of Texas, etc.

I might be somewhat guilty of what you charge. If someone is done with their transaction and there are people in line waiting, I see get the fuck out of the way, and make some fucking friends so you don't have to hold everyone lese up talking to people who just pretend to like you because you're a customer.

"LOL. YOu claim to hate the state yet you don't even know it. The NW part is as flat as a pool table. Mountains are W and SW

Posted by goatman at 2008-05-06 03:25 PM"

I said "I think" that's where they are, moron. I also said I didn't like the place because of the people, not the geography. Fuck, the people are fucking dumb, that's for sure.

Zat

Austin in the 60's.

Posted by Zatoichi at 2008-05-06 03:45 PM

Well, since you've always got some scientific project you seem to be working on --
have you put together a time machine yet?

If someone is done with their transaction and there are people in line waiting, I see get the fuck out of the way, and make some fucking friends so you don't have to hold everyone lese up talking to people who just pretend to like you because you're a customer.

Posted by mOntecOre at 2008-05-06 03:58 PM

Spoken like a true, alway in a hurry, city slicker. (grin)

And if it was Nanc in the bank queue mentioned above, I can just see her yelling at the top of her lungs, "go get raped and murdered! You deserve it!"

...with big, bleach-blonde hair.

Hey, hey, hey...they're not all bad -- or dumb either.

" have you put together a time machine yet? "

Posted by CalifChris

I wish.
Then I could hear Stevie Ray play live again.

And if it was Vernon in the bank queue mentioned above, I can just see him yelling at the top of his lungs, "get out of line, grand-daughter! I'm in a hurry to go sit on the park bench with Eberly and yell at the kids playing catch!"

You could be right. Some of the people who bugged me the most were ladies in fancy Plano restaurants who were loud, obnoxious, with big, bleach-blonde hair. Maybe they were actually from some other red state.

You are right. I am ashamed to say I was born and raised in Plano. I wasn't 30 years ago, but I am now.

When I was in 1st grade, there was one elementary school and one HS. One stop light in the town. I used to be able to go to the soda fountain at the drugstore when I was 5 YO and get a nickel soda and the pharmacist would put it on my dad's tab. Haircut across the street for 25c. One traffic light in the town. Less than 3,000 people in the townI graduated from HS with the same 12 kids I went to kindergarten with, but the class size had grown to 455.

But soon after that the yankees started pouring in. They moaned about how awful the place was. They really fucked it up. I left. If you didn't drive an expensive car and wear $200 jeans, people sneer at you there. Most all of them are yankees.

Plano is now 100x the size it was when I was a 6 YO -- about 300,000 people now. I cannot stand it. Don't judge Texas by those posers in Plano

BTW, there are still some isolated pockets of sanity in that town that mostly only local frequent. if you go there again let me know and I'll steer you to them -- if you promise to behave. *grin*

If someone is done with their transaction and there are people in line waiting, I see get the fuck out of the way, and make some fucking friends so you don't have to hold everyone lese up talking to people who just pretend to like you because you're a customer.

The teller probably was her friend. She probably knew the her since she was born.

I said "I think" that's where they are, moron. I also said I didn't like the place because of the people, not the geography. Fuck, the people are fucking dumb, that's for sure.

On second thought, you wouldn't make it at the isolated local spots in Plano.

Interesting to know that you've administered IQ tests to the state and can make such a broad brush statement. I guess that's what makes you so much smarter -- the ability to do such things.

Gee, Texas really misses people like you, m'core

If it was Larry in line he'd say "hEy, thIs isn'T PetCo! iF DaT aIn't thE dRizzlIn sHitS!"

Montecore

...obnoxious, with big, bleach-blonde hair.

You must mean those women with the phony, "every hair plastered in place" bouffant hairdos they get done in the hair salons. Yuk. So unnatural looking.

LOL 101

Plano was all right ... in the 50's.

At least Lance Armstrong is from there.

I know, CC, but they all react predictably when you bag on their state. Yanking chains is fun sometimes.

If you really are considering texas, Austin is the onlt place I would even thing about moving. But before that, I would consider Boulder, Durango, or Estes Park, CO; Eugene, Portland, or Bend, OR; Seattle or Spokane, WA; Salt Lake City, UT; Tucson, AZ; Taos, NM; Guantanamo Bay, Cuba; etc., etc., etc.

At least Lance Armstrong is from there.

My friend RT and I used to ride the exact same route on our bicycles that he trained on: Hiway 5 to Sherman and back roads on to Denison. (Plano, Allen, Fairview, McKinney, Melissa, Anna, Van Alstyne, Howe, Sherman) Only he stopped in Sherman. About 60 miles. But we did it long before him.

Plain Ol', as we called it, was up there close to the Land of Gar, as I recall.

Went from being the location for "Dallas" to being one big parking lot surrounding by glass towers.

Chris,

The place you want is Austin. Come for a visit and you will love it.

"Guantanamo Bay, Cuba; etc., etc., etc."

Posted by mOntecOre

LOL!

If you really are considering texas, Austin is the onlt place I would even thing about moving.

LOL. A person who hates Texas giving advice about Texas. Gotta love it. Kind of like a Nazi giving advice on where to by the best menorah.

"BTW, there are still some isolated pockets of sanity in that town that mostly only local frequent. if you go there again let me know and I'll steer you to them -- if you promise to behave.

Posted by goatman at 2008-05-06 04:07 PM"

I'll bet it was a great place to grow up. The homes, ranches, etc. that have avoided becoming strip malls were beautiful.

Re: the intelligence tests, etc., you know I'm just fucking around, Goat - don't get your goat up about it. (But even you have to acknowledge BLT. I obviously have SOME basis for my accusations.)

Salaryman

Chris,

The place you want is Austin. Come for a visit and you will love it.

Thanks. I'm keeping a file on places to move and will tuck this thread into it. Is Austin real crowded? I want to get out of Los Angeles for partly that same reason. I'll check it out -- and the housing prices -- and the property tax rates. Nice people though? Los Angeles is sooooo big that you lose that neighborly feeling -- no one seems to want to get to know anyone. I'd rather have a smaller town feeling.

and yes, the PRA (People's Rebublic of Austin) is great unless you are 1/2 degree off of radical liberal.

Also, I noted a few weeks ago the gross difference in driving habits between San Antonio and AUstin. In SA people will allow you to merge, exit parking lots, etc. This will not happen in the PRA. If you use your turn signal on a SA hiway to change lanes, a gap will open. in the PRA what little gap there is gets even smaller. You will never get flipped off on the road in SA. It's a daily occurance in the PRA.

People's driving habits are reflective of their personality IMO. So if you like those type of people, (m'core obviously does) -- by all means take montecore's advice and move to the PRA. And if you must live in Texas, please stay in the PRA.

Monte,
Seriously Eugene? That's like the Plano of the Northwest FFS.

Boulder snooty and cliqueish.

Salt Lake City? Mormons, nuff said.

AZ is like the 10th circle of hell for most of the year.

Taos and Durango I think would be to small for most people. Those are places you visit.

Portland is awesome, great town. (Austin is better tho)

"LOL. A person who hates Texas giving advice about Texas. Gotta love it. Kind of like a Nazi giving advice on where to by the best menorah.

Posted by goatman at 2008-05-06 04:21 PM"

Well, kind of like that. But maybe more like "the food at McDonald's sucks, but if you are going to eat there, you might want to stick to the fries and avoid the Big Mac's special sauce and the Chicken BallNuggets.

Salary -- you live in Austin? YOu don't strike me as the type who would. You must be a student taking advantage of the excellent school there.

(Plano, Allen, Fairview, McKinney, Melissa, Anna, Van Alstyne, Howe, Sherman)

Know them all.

My sister's been a lawyer in Sherman for over thirty years. I went to elementary school in Bonham. My granddaddy had a cotton gin in Lannius. My daddy bought me my first rifle in Trenton. Other places that come to mind: Telephone, Bells, Wolf City, Honey Grove, Ector, Dodd City, Paris, Italy, Waxahachie, Kaufmann, the mind reels.

I avoid going North of the Brazos these days.

(But even you have to acknowledge BLT. I obviously have SOME basis for my accusations.)

Posted by mOntecOre at 2008-05-06 04:24 PM

Aww, I love BLT -- one of my favorite faaaaaaar right wingers on here. Who wouldn't love that crazy Texas guy who's content for life as long as he's got his sports on tv, his bookies, and his booze -- oh, yeah, and ALL those imaginary women he scores. hahaha

Besides, he's funny as hell as the burr in Lisa's saddle all the time. The two of them make me laugh so hard.

"But even you have to acknowledge BLT."

Houston

'nuff said.

I spent a lifetime there in 1973. There's a reason it's called Sufferville. Dallas sucks more than Houston, though.

Salaryman - you know nothing of Eugene if you think its like Plano. You couldn't have missed the mark worse. Big hair? Fancy cars? $200 jeans? Loud, obnoxius housewives? That is the anti-thesis of Eugene, kid.

Molly Ivins got it right about Houston: "Los Angeles with the climate of Calcutta."

Telephone, Bells, Wolf City,

Leonard, Westminister, Whiteright -- my girlfriend lives about in the center of these six towns. An old defunct community once known as Monkeytown. Has an old bridge still there with wooden slats built in 1886 -- just a few years after railroads came. It's still on some maps, but no sign of the town even though it was quite prosperous back then.

I just like giving BLT shit. Though if he is an example of high school teachers in Texas, then my comments about the state hold even more credence. But he is a golfer, so I give him credit for that.

I think you should consider someplace like North Carolina, CC. Easy pace, nice folks, clean, low crime, etc.

Wolf City

My grandfather used to practice medicine in Denison, but he went to Wolf City every other Thursday to help people there.

"This is a perfect example of why the death penalty should have be done away with decades ago."

He didn't get the death penalty.

...So if you like those type of people, (m'core obviously does) -- by all means take montecore's advice and move to the PRA. And if you must live in Texas, please stay in the PRA.

Posted by goatman at 2008-05-06 04:26 PM

Gee, that's kinda mean to say -- never leave Austin if you ever come to Texas.
I thought you Texas folks were suppose to be friendly! (g)

Eugene's nickname is the Peoples Republic of Eugene. Very progressive politics, hippies, bike riders, organic everything both in restaurants and home kitchens, dogs, runners, environmentalists, etc.

How is that like Plano?

"The West is the BEST"
Jim Morrison

Fabulous weather, ecological and cultural beauty and diversity. The only wasteland was made into a gambling and entertainment Mecca.

Pearl Beer and the Cowboys suck. Houston is the traffic and pollution Capital of the Country. Dallas-FortWorth Airport is one of the worst cases of sprawl ever designed. Impossible to get out of when a football game ends. Texas is lousy weather with flatland full of stupid rednecks. It stops being boring when it reverts to its natural state of violence.

With apologies to San Antonio (still too humid) and Austin, which is as good as it gets in Texas.

Because Texas is leading the nation in exploiting new DNA technologies to ensure that their wrongly convicted are freed?

Posted by goatman at 2008-05-06 03:14 AM | Reply | Flag

'Leading the Nation'?

With their track record of injustice, I'd say it's about fucking time!

"Austin, which is as good as it gets in Texas."

Posted by nutcase

I moved to the sticks of Bastrop county some time back. Austin in the 60's was mighty fine, though.

think you should consider someplace like North Carolina, CC. Easy pace, nice folks, clean, low crime, etc.

Thanks, I'll add that on my list of possible places. I lived outside the MCAS Cherry Point for a year but that was when I was a real little kid - waaay long time ago.

What cities are good in NC to check out? Medium size city -- things to do, low cost homes (well, anyplace is low cost after California!), low property tax, and not too "married, suburbia" -- I want to have something to do around town!

"Molly Ivins got it right about Houston: "Los Angeles with the climate of Calcutta."

Posted by Zatoichi at 2008-05-06 04:32 PM"

That is a severe diss of LA. At least LA has Malibu, Santa Monica, Big Bear, the Lakers, Chavez Ravine, Disneyland, hot girls everywhere wearing almost nothing, Hollywood, The Whiskey A Go Go, tons of unbelievable beaches and surf. Houston? It couldn't hold LA's ballbag.

How about Louisiana? Put that on my list of possible places to live?
What towns? Or shouldn't I even consider it?

CC - I know less about NC than I do about Texas. I'm just trying to do my part to get one more person away from the left coast! :D

Personally, I think university towns with 100,000 to 200,000 people are great compromises. You get a lot of advantages of smaller cities, but still get some culture because of the university. That's a big reason why I like Eugene so much.

Salaryman - you know nothing of Eugene if you think its like Plano. You couldn't have missed the mark worse. Big hair? Fancy cars? $200 jeans? Loud, obnoxius housewives? That is the anti-thesis of Eugene, kid.

Posted by mOntecOre at 2008-05-06 04:32 PM

You're right about that, Montecore. Oregon is anything but those kind of folks. I have family in Klammath Falls and friends in McMinnville -- never saw those types there.

I've been to LA.
I've been to Houston.

They both suck.

The description Joe found looks pretty accurate for Eugene, but it looks different than that for Plano.

CC - I've had friends (musicians, painters, artists) that moved from Manhattan to New Orleans because they felt NO was more happening. That was before the flood, however, back in the early 90's, so I don't know if that still holds.

Nice, but I like having the same house on stable ground at 1/6 the cost.

Posted by goatman at 2008-05-06 03:13 PM


hmmm California is a very big place.

I was California Dreaming before I ever left Virginia as a small laddy. Now I live the California Dream. Though most of the Real California is buried beneath a freeway some it can still be found.

But, as with all good things, they are worth paying a little extra for.

As for the shaking fears... 6 of one and half a dozen of the other thing... in my old home town in Virginia (Where homes are MORE expensive than where I am in California) a Tornado Swarm destroyed 140 and injured over 200 people. Here where I live we had a 5.2 Earthquake and over 200 wine bottles fell onto the floor. We were aghast!

After work I have to pick up my son from the beach. I might take my dog Bobby Tibetan Monkey Dog for a walk while I am there. WE love the Beach. You can see for miles. I love putting my toes in the sand and the breeze in my hair and Bobby just likes to be free.

But, of course, you decide...

I think LA can be a great place, if you have several million dollars to spend on a home, and you don't have a commute. That leaves about 99.5% of people out.

a Tornado Swarm destroyed 140 Homes

"I think LA can be a great place, if you have several million dollars to spend on a home, and you don't have a commute. That leaves about 99.5% of people out."

Posted by mOntecOre

"With enough money you can have fun in Waco."
-Willie Nelson

I went to high school in Waco and I cannot fathom what "enough money" could possibly be.

Zat - lol. Agree with you there. (Was Willie into cocaine back then?)

Ahhh, the beach. Oregon has unbelievably beautiful coast line, but I can't tell you how much I miss swimming and surfing in the ocean. When my kids are grown, I want to live at least several months of the year where I can swim in warm ocean water.

Flagstaff was pretty nice in the 80s. It's probably doubled in size by now. Short summer, but then you can always drop down to the desert. Ski Bunnies abound.

Tucson would be great if you can get a cabin in the mountains. Long, long list. By May it's 100 degrees at 10AM. Gets a little boring.

Forbes puts out a Top Ten List for different categories. Columbia MO was on it for Best Places for Education a couple of years ago. We're about two hours from everything and "rush hour" is a joke.

But if you have the money or can make a living in a foreign country, I think Costa Rica would one of the best places to live. Tropical mountains, low humidity, 70-80 degrees year around.

Don't listen to Goat Chris Austin rules! Right now I have been exiled to SA and truly they drive much worse here.

I will admit the traffic is worse in Austin but if you learn the back ways it is not a very big city.

Be careful about Salaryman's opinion, CC. He thinks Plano and Eugene are alike.

Right now I have been exiled to SA and truly they drive much worse here.

I will admit the traffic is worse in Austin but if you learn the back ways it is not a very big city.

Where in SA? I'm not far from 1604 and Braun (next exit going w of Bandera -- 1st light after expressway ends)

'GOATMAN'...Don't ever speak for me, you are not fit to do so. I have ask you this question before an I'll try again find something in my message that was not a FACT, or an OPINION that I am still entitled to....

find something in my message that was not a FACT

for starters:

Yes you asshole you are a fucking liar.

OzarkAggie

Forbes puts out a Top Ten List for different categories. Columbia MO was on it for Best Places for Education a couple of years ago. We're about two hours from everything and "rush hour" is a joke.

But if you have the money or can make a living in a foreign country, I think Costa Rica would one of the best places to live. Tropical mountains, low humidity, 70-80 degrees year around.

Posted by OzarkAggie at 2008-05-06 05:07 P

Thanks! Just put "Missouri" in my new file of "places to consider moving." I like the idea of being "two hours from everything." Don't need to worry about "best places for education." Not raising any kids and already have my own education done with. "'Rush hour' is a joke" sounds like a definite plus! Los Angeles is almost a 24/7 "rush hour." Missouri has a change of seasons -- that's sounds nice. Sunshine is fine but every single day with only about 5 days of rain a year gets tiring. Don't need blizzards but a fall, winter, spring and summer would be a novelty for me -- a nice novelty.

Of course every place has its pros and cons. Just doubled the amount of my homeowners' earthquake coverage yesterday. Didn't realize how low the coverage amount was until I reviewed the policy. With my luck, the "big one" would hit about a month before I sold the house. (g). At least now I'm covered in case we start to shake, rattle, and roll before I'm out of California!

As for Costa Rica? I like to travel but I'm U.S. born and bred and my blood runs red -- white and blue. I'm more than content to live right here in my own country.

I think LA can be a great place, if you have several million dollars to spend on a home, and you don't have a commute. That leaves about 99.5% of people out.

Posted by mOntecOre at 2008-05-06 04:52 PM

Don't have several million to spend on buying a different home to find here in California and driving anyplace in California can be considered a "commute" since everything is spread so far apart and the traffic is heavy. Can't believe just how much the traffic has increased in my own town of Burbank, CA (population around 120,000 and a separate city in a suburb of Los Angeles). Those crooks on our City Council never met a developer they didn't like or a development they wouldn't rubber stamp -- for the right political donation of course. Just saw another of those digusting "McMansions" going up just around the block. Ugly!

Goat

'GOATMAN'...Don't ever speak for me, you are not fit to do so....

All these "love letters" coming your way from Celisary and BuffaloBob!
Must be nice to know you're the object of such affection and admiration. (grin)

Chris,

You'd be welcome to drive by. There's work for paralegals too. State Capitol is south 30 miles. Another 40 to Lake of the Ozarks. But we have lots of smaller lakes all over Missourah.

One caveat: You must hate Kansas, despise Illinois, and Laugh at Arkansas. We're friendly, if cautious, with the other five on our border.

Monte,
My associates from Portland led me to believe that Eugene was populated by boorish snobby people that think they are rich. The one person I met from Eugene fit that bill to a tee so I had no reason to formulate a different opinion. Plano is populated by boorish snobby people that think they are rich; this the comparison. Now if I was misinformed about Eugene I am certainly willing to reassess. However your demeanor leaves me disinclined to think that Eugene is anything less than what I originally thought.

Goat,

I used to live at I-10 and Heubner. That was a nice area. My wife tricked me into moving to Boerne. Which is ok too. Kicker is wages are so low in SA I have to drive to Austin to make any money. Even spending 300+ a month on gas I still come out ahead working in Austin.

Isn't it telling that the Texans are not badmouthing any ones state, but instead try to find something nice to say. That is why out of everywhere I have been I have not found a better place than Texas.

Now I love the USA
And the other states
Ahh, they're OK
Texas is the place I wanna be
And I don't care if I ever go to Delaware anyway
Cause we got Stubbs, and Gruene Hall and Antone's, and John T's Country Store
We've got Willie and Jacky Jack, Robert Earl, Pat, Cory, Charlie and me
And so many more.

So screw you, we're from Texas

-Ray Wylie Hubbard

We don't wipe our asses on Old Glory,
God and Lone Star beer are things we trust.
We keep our women virgins till they're married
So hosin' sheep is good enough for us.

I'm proud to be an asshole from El Paso
A place where sweet young virgins are deflowered.
You walk down that street knee-deep in tacos
Ta-ta-ta-tacos
And the wetbacks still get twenty cents an hour

~Richard S. "But You Can Call Me 'Kinky'" Friedman

I voted for Kinky, dammit.

Even though Texas sucks, it still brought us Roy Orbison and Molly Ivans, two of the worlds best at what they did.

Posted by herm at 2008-05-05 05:46 PM

Where are our fascist posters? The ones that will suggest that all black men look alike, are interchangeable, and if they don't want 27 years in The Slam should know better than to be black. herm

If the low down dirty pricks that did this to this man are still alive, lock them up for 27 years!!!!!!!!!!
ALL OF THEM!!!!

On topic,

It is great that we are able to free these innocent people.

And sad that we convicted them in the first place.

My sincere hope is that stories like this will lead us to examine the justice system and make changes that will benefit us all.

Salaryman

I agree wholeheartedly with your post above.
You hit all the right points on how to look at this issue.

from the article --

He loves dogs and would still like to have a family, but he believes that most women are likely to see him as damaged goods.

But with an easy smile, fit and attractive at age 55, he could be wrong about that.

He likes dogs, that's a plus. "Easy smile, fit and attactive at age 55" -- another plus.

But if he's at a bar and talking with a nice gal he's just met, err, maybe he ought to wait until she's had her 4th drink before he tells her what he's been doing for the last 27 years? I know, I know, it wasn't his fault but....

voted for Kinky, dammit.

Posted by Zatoichi at 2008-05-07 09:45 AM

Good for you, Zat! If I were in Texas I would have voted for Kinky too.
Why did the rest of you Texans vote in Rick "North American Union" Perry? Nuts!

ON TOPIC?
Did you bother to READ the story?
There is evidence that exculpatory evidence was withheld. This prosecution was with malice. That would obviously would involve more than one or two people.
That would make it a conspiracy. How many others did THEY do this to? We can give this man back his 27 years, but we sure as hell can give him JUSTICE! THAT IS "ON TOPIC".

...Even though Texas sucks, it still brought us Roy Orbison...

Roy Orbison - *swoon*

This isn't about the justice system. This is about a corrupt prosecutor.

Isn't it telling that the Texans are not badmouthing any ones state, but instead try to find something nice to say.

It's true. It reinforces what I've always said about Texans being nice people. I always wonder what others talk about when they say Texans are assholes.

It's true. It reinforces what I've always said about Texans being nice people. I always wonder what others talk about when they say Texans are assholes.

Posted by goatman at 2008-05-07 01:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

All one has to do is join the Navy and you'll meet EVERYONE from Texas.

Seriously though, I had no pre-conceived notions about anyone from Texas. They were ALL earned.

Well Just the opinion of this Texan. The rest of the USA can just fuck right off. We would probably do better if we did not have to carry so much dead weight.

And if you would be so kind sir as to tell us what Shangrila Utopian paradise it that you reside in?

Posted by Salaryman at 2008-05-06 09:57 AM | Reply | Flag:

Dead weight?

Are you referring to the FACT that Texas takes more Tax dollars from the govt than it generates, unlike most Blue States which receive, on avg, less than one dollar for every dollar generated.

You were saying something about 'dead weight'?

Massachusetts........uh uh uh....before you babble on about 'liberal this' & liberal that', remember, we've had republican governors for the past 15 years straight. Go ahead, bash my state. Let's play a little game.

I say let TexASS secede.

We then fence off any area that borders a US State and deny any and all 'traitors' admission into the United States. Next, we invade, topple their economy and steal their oil.

We'll even change their name to Texaq or maybe Irexas.

Sounds like a great plan to me. When can we get started?

Massachusetts........uh uh uh....before you babble on about 'liberal this' & liberal that', remember, we've had republican governors for the past 15 years straight. Go ahead, bash my state. Let's play a little game.

I think Texas has had only 3 republican governors in the last 100 years -- maybe since it became a state, but I'm too lazy to verify right now.

California ...

Nice, but I like having the same house on stable ground at 1/6 the cost.

Posted by goatman at 2008-05-06 03:13 PM

News just came on CNN -- a giant sinkhole two football fields' wide just opened up in Daisetta, Texas and just the other night a big ol' hole opened up on some interstate going into Austin (heard that on Coast-to-Coast talk radio show).

Err, what was that about Texas "stable ground"? hahaha

...Next, we invade, topple their economy and steal their oil.

Didn't we do that back in 2003?
Oh wait, that was in Iraq.

I think Texas has had only 3 republican governors in the last 100 years -- maybe since it became a state, but I'm too lazy to verify right now.

Posted by goatman at 2008-05-07 02:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

Number of Governors of Texas by party affiliation

Party Governors
Democratic 39
Republican 6
Unionist 1
Independent 1

"Republican 6"

Only if you count Bill Clements twice.

Elisha M. Pease June 8, 1867-September 30, 1869
Edmund J. Davis January 8, 1870-January 15, 1874
Bill Clements January 16, 1979-January 18, 1983; January 20, 1987-January 15, 1991
George W. Bush January 17, 1995-December 21, 2000
Rick Perry December 21, 2000-Present

I've met all but the first two.
I'm not that old.

The first guy on the list was Vernon's grandson.

"Monte,
My associates from Portland led me to believe that Eugene was populated by boorish snobby people that think they are rich. The one person I met from Eugene fit that bill to a tee so I had no reason to formulate a different opinion. Plano is populated by boorish snobby people that think they are rich; this the comparison. Now if I was misinformed about Eugene I am certainly willing to reassess. However your demeanor leaves me disinclined to think that Eugene is anything less than what I originally thought.

Posted by Salaryman at 2008-05-07 09:18 AM"

Salaryman,
Blow me clown.

p.s. Your fellow fry cooks are not "associates." Like you, they are plain old greaseballs.

Its the "Liberal" Blue States, disproportionally graced with smart people that subsidize the dumber "Red(neck)" States in this country.

Rednecks and Evangelicals are but electoral pawns which Republicans have owned since Johnson passed the Civil Rights Bill.

Nothing pissed off the South (including Texas) more than giving them fucking niggers any rights. But Shrub, Clarence and the rest of their team are trying to rectify that. Defining "Liberal" as derogatory is an important step in that process.

"got any good beaches left there?"

Posted by donnerboy

Long, yes.
And we call it the coast.

You can find unoccupied miles of it all to yourself.

Good?
Hana, Maui.

Its the "Liberal" Blue States, disproportionally graced with smart people that subsidize the dumber "Red(neck)" States in this country.


The lowest common denominator in Michigan vote Democratic.

Low-life pieces of shit who clamor to live off someone else's dime.

You can take your insipid, stupid talking-point and put it where the sun doesn't shine.

..."got any good beaches left there?"

It always strikes me funny how on the West Coast the ocean is called "the beach"
but on the East Coast it's always called "the shore."

"The lowest common denominator in Michigan vote Democratic.

Low-life pieces of shit who clamor to live off someone else's dime.

Posted by JeffJ "


Spoken by a hypocritical clown who lectures other people on painting with a broad brush.

No Nulli.


Spoken by the guy who works nights and has spent several weeks since this January working in and around the neighborhoods of Detroit.

Most of the people I have seen are low-life pieces of shit - and they vote Democratic, if they can even be bothered to vote at all.

Spoken by a hypocritical clown who lectures other people on painting with a broad brush.


I was providing context to the stupid red state vs blue state argument and yes, my language and characterizations were harsher than is called for.

"Most of the people I have seen are low-life pieces of shit - and they vote Democratic, if they can even be bothered to vote at all.

Posted by JeffJ at 2008-05-07 07:18 PM"

How in the fuck do you know that? Are you a canvasser, Jeff? Or do you just walk around bad neighborhoods asking low-lifes what party they belong to and if they vote? I suspect you're full of shit on this one, Jeffy.

Donner - the Lost Coast is awesome. Do you surf? I have friends who surf giant waves on the Lost Coast. It's out of my league for surfing, but an amazing stretch of coast nonetheless.

"I suspect you're full of shit on this one, Jeffy."

Now, now, Monte. We don't want to paint with a broad brush or make outlandish statements that we can't back up. Rightists never do that. Let's follow the lead of the DR Right and thoughtful posters like Sniper, Kuma, Fredo, RightisCoward, etc.

They have to live in that shit hole of a state called TEXAS!

I live on the Lost Coast...shhhh... it is still lost so don't tell anyone!

Here is my little bit of paradise near where I live....there are thousands of places like this...shhhhh!

It does indeed look like a nice place, donnieboy. But if the attitude in your post is a reflection of the people who live there, I'm not sure I'd like it. The people in Texas are much mre polite than you.

Monte,

The citizens of Detroit vote almost exclusively Democratic.

Google it if you don't believe me.


The city council is 100% Democratic and for the last 30+ years, at least, the Mayor of Detroit has been a Democrat; and in the case of Dennis Archer - an honorable man and he was good for the city. Of course, he was hated by his consituents for reaching out to whitey, but I digress.

On any given night I can drive through the likes of Novi, Farmington, Livonia, Westland, Canton, Plymouth, Northville, Sterling Heights, Centerline, Chesterfield, Utica, Brighton, Wixom, Woodhaven, etc. and between the hours of 1-5 AM the only people you will find out and about are people who are working, for the most part. But, go into the neighborhoods of Detroit during that time and you'll find all sorts of people shuffling aimlessly about not doing a fricking thing productively, even in frigid temperatures.

Goatman - good, because the last thing the left coast needs is more transplants from ignorant states. Enjoy Texas!

We don't want to paint with a broad brush or make outlandish statements that we can't back up.


Actually, I did back it up.


It's now incumbent upon you to refute what I've said. I presume that you can easily do so as I am sure you've spent plenty of time in the neighborhoods of Detroit.


Monte,

Good guess, but wrong.

Monte,


The Detroit Free Press carriers drive company cube vans. It's only the small local papers that are delivered by bicycle.

Enjoy Texas!

I do. Immensely.

Enjoy state income taxes, outrageously priced real estate, and Ahnold.

"Actually, I did back it up."

You didn't back up shit. You just provided some worthless anecdotal evidence. Try again.

Donner - the Lost Coast is awesome. Do you surf? I have friends who surf giant waves on the Lost Coast. It's out of my league for surfing, but an amazing stretch of coast nonetheless.

Posted by mOntecOre at 2008-05-07 07:35 PM

shhh don't tell anyone...its a secret!

I don't surf much anymore... the kids do... I mostly snorkel and fish I do get abalone still! I can free dive to 30-40 feet still...you have to have thick wet suit tho...I mostly hang out on the beaches...

2much2do!

You just provided some worthless anecdotal evidence

Anectdotal?


You mean like pointing out that every elected official in Detroit over the last 30+ years has been a Democrat?

Yeah, that's really anecdotal.


"try again".

"81% of the city is African American and blacks vote Democratic about 90% of the time."

And where is the proof that they are "low-life pieces of shit"?

"Enjoy state income taxes, outrageously priced real estate, and Ahnold.

Posted by goatman at 2008-05-07 07:56 PM"

A swing, and a miss! Oregon is a low-tax burden state (around 45th or so). Personally, I wish we would raise taxes to improve schools and infrastructure, but I'm not a greedy, I-earned-it-so-fuck-all-the-
rest-of-you kind of guy. Also, Ahnold is down south, in Collieforneea.

It does indeed look like a nice place, donnieboy. But if the attitude in your post is a reflection of the people who live there, I'm not sure I'd like it. The people in Texas are much mre polite than you.

Posted by goatman at 2008-05-07 07:40 PM

Most Coasties are way more laid back than I!

And ahhh but goatboy... you are just seeing a bit O blowback for the last 8 years Bushworld from me!

I try to keep my debates on the high ground but you see how it is here on the DR and I can get pulled into the SWAMP too...and I have taken to giving as good as I get... I have definitely take Religion off of its High and Mighty Pedestal which does tend offend and piss off the more Churchy types and if you support Bush with your I will hold no quarter!

But, Me thinks if you look back you will see I am pretty fair and I try not to dump too much and I only dump on those who really "deserve" it.

Though being human I admit I have lost me temper a time or two at a few as BushCo has made me a bit Bushwhacked over the last few years...

Is my attitude that bad? perhaps I should up my meds?

Oh and btw I don't want you coming here and mucking up the coast anyway ...it is just fine the way it is thanks!

come on January 20th 2009!

JeffJ has mail. Heed those words carefully.

Larry Mohr

And where is the proof that they are "low-life pieces of shit"?


Take several drives through the hood, Bill, and you'll see it with your own eyes.

It's sad really. I love the city of Detroit. I spend a fair amount of leisure time down there. Between Red Wings games, Tigers Games, the Auto show, winterfest, the fireworks, etc. I spend a lot of discretionary income in the city of Detroit.

The city has made some strides in the last 15 years - 2 new sports stadiums (Comerica Park and Ford Field), with the expected spill-over in terms of surrounding businesses prospering; plus 3 casinos. Greektown and Corktown are a delight as well. However, these bright spots are oasises in a desert. the neighborhoods are absolute shitholes.


PS - No, they are not all pieces of shit. Nevertheless, when you see what I see, firsthand, a certain degree of cynicism is unavoidable.

"transplants from ignorant states"

That describes the Connecticut carpetbagging Bush family perfectly.

What percentage of black people in Detroit do you estimate are "low-life pieces of shit"?

Zat - no offense, but I don't like my land or my women flat.

"I do get abalone still!

Posted by donnerboy at 2008-05-07 07:57 PM"

I love abalone. We get it around Jenner, but it is fucking cold and shark-infested there. Now I mostly let my cousins dive for it, and my wife and sisters-in-law pound it into submission. Meanwhile, I work on my 12-ounce curls.

What percentage of black people in Detroit do you estimate are "low-life pieces of shit"?

Certainly not all of them, by any stretch.


Nevertheless, take a drive in the hood, Bill and then, you tell me.

Zat - no offense, but I don't like my land or my women flat.

That's one of the many great things about Texas. You have the grassy plains, the high plains, the coast, the marshlands, the mountains, the hill country, the piney woods, and the sierra all in one state.

I love the coast. I am currently shopping for something there between Corpus Christi and Matagorda.

PS - No, they are not all pieces of shit. Nevertheless, when you see what I see, firsthand, a certain degree of cynicism is unavoidable.

I understand what you are saying JJ, but it's now how it got that way, it's how to restore it back to normal.

Ignoring the weeds in the grass just propagates the further encroachment of weeds and continued blight. Amasing though, FERTILIZER and weed killer used with specific instructions on a continuous basis takes care of the weeds and promotes a plush growing green lawn.

Enjoy state income taxes, outrageously priced real estate, and Ahnold.

Posted by goatman at 2008-05-07 07:5

No state income taxes in Texas? Hmmm.

How's property taxes? Low, medium, high?
Same all over the state? Or different in different counties?

" I am currently shopping for something there between Corpus Christi and Matagorda."

Posted by goatman

And you are a few decades too late unless you just want to live there for the few years you have.

Sleeping on the beach at Port Aransas in 1964 was the best ...

How's property taxes? Low, medium, high?
Same all over the state? Or different in different counties?

WHat is low? What is high? Counties levy taxes for schools, of course.

I left Travis County because of property taxes; That protection racket must be eliminated.

Goat --

You asked what I considered "low" or "high" but the only experience I have with property taxes is for my parents' home.

I paid $863 for this year's property tax -- that including all assessments they're always adding on -- flood control, trauma/emergency room service, county park district, community college, metro water district and the unified schools. Is that considered low, or medium, or what?

That amount of property tax is assessed because my parents' house came under the protection of Proposition 13 voted in by Californians in 1979 and from that point on the property taxes for this home can only be increased about 1% per year of the value their home was first assessed in 1979 under Prop. 13 and will stay at that rate until the house sells to someone else.

But say I sell the house, then buyer will have this same house appraised by the County Assessor at today's (2008) value and will pay property taxes on that newly appraised amount. BUT from that point on those new owners also would have their property taxes increase only 1% a year (from 2008 on) until they sell the home.

Proposition 13 was a state initiative that was part of a citizen's revolt because homeowners were being taxed out of their homes everytime the politicians wanted more money. It was a crime what was going on. Now at least there is some control.

But the politicians here have been trying like crazy to get Proposition 13 overturned so they can once again increase homeowners' property taxes sky high. Proposition 13 is a "sacred cow" here in CA and any sleezy politician that tries to overturn it does so at his own peril.

I can see Chris wasn't there.

I am currently shopping for something there between Corpus Christi and Matagorda."

Posted by goatman


Is Corpus Christi considered a vacation area of Texas? If so, and it's real popular, maybe you could even consider buying a place and using the place half the time for vacation rental income. Since you're on the rig for two weeks you could rent the place to vacationers for two weeks, then you could live there the two weeks you're home, then more vacationers could rent it for the following two weeks after that (after you've gone back to work on the rig)?

That would take a lot of coordination, though, and you'd have to spend time cleaning your place to have it ready for the next set of 2-week vacationers.

Hmm, maybe that's not such a great idea.

I can see Chris wasn't there.

Nope, I qualify as a Texas virgin. Never been to the Lone Star State.

How's property taxes? Low, medium, high?
Same all over the state? Or different in different counties?

POSTED BY CALIFCHRIS AT 2008-05-07 08:33 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Second highest in the United States. No income taxes, no intangible tax. Sales tax isn't great, either. When I bought my place in Texas I asked what in the world "that number" was. It was the property tax escrow. Just be forewarned, especially given what yiou're currently paying.

"I agree with you. Fuck off. The United States sure doesn't need any more Texans or any part of Texas. Stupid people, dirty skies, punk assed Presidents. You have my vote for secession, either way you want to call it."

You clearly have never been to Texas.

I'm a recent yankee transplant (moved from NY three years ago) and absolutely love it. Beautiful weather, friendly people, cheap living and from the little I've seen, a natually beautiful state with huge variety.

The gung ho, "Don't mess with Texas" bit does get a bit old, but with such a gorgeous state I don't blame the people for being proud of where they live.

Oh, and how could I forget barbeque? mmmmmmmmm