I saw big Brown today.

Go Browns!

filly Eight Belles euthanized

It is sad, but on the other hand, it is funny because Hillary was telling people to bet on the filly!

You can't make this stuff up folks, it would be funny were it not for the horse being put to sleep.

Good catch Andi.



Hillary Clinton's horse comes in 2ND and then dies.

Posted by: Karma | May 3, 2008 6:57:56 PM


What an Omen.

What a Dream.

How sad
this beautifull horse who was a monster amoung fillies. ran better than any of us'expert' handicappers ever thought possible.
and then to have such a wierd thing happen. she had galloped out almost a half mile AFTER the race and was almost stopped when it happened.
she just couldnt take the stress of a thoroughbred's complete and total dedication to winning. thats why the term thoroughbred is applid to other things who are above others.

a sad addiion to that is that I didnt have her in 2nd and I lost all of my exotic bets.....
but I did have the big one....to win the derby by 4 1/2 lengths is a total blowout.....she kicked she shit out of the others...

these animals are the most beautifull and pampered animals of all and I will be a little surprised if peta or some like kooks dont raise hell.......

"these animals are the most beautifull and pampered animals of all and I will be a little surprised if peta or some like kooks dont raise hell......."

They don't vote Repub, BLT, and speaking of horses' rear ends, how are Bush and McBush? herm

A great Race an Big Brown appears to be the real deal, but the tragic death of the Filly in the race put a little pain in to the day especially for those of us who loves horses.

Having said that it is just unbelievable that the ASSHOLES on the right could use this tragedy to take another shot at Senator Clinton. The Rights obsession with the Clintons is fun to watch, you dumb fucks need to get a hold of yourselves...

I don't know much (anything) about horses so I have to ask this. Why do they euthanize such an expensive animal?

Can the legs not heal? I'd think they'd want to breed her but they obviously would have if they could.

Can horses not be kept of their feet long enough to heal?

...she had galloped out almost a half mile AFTER the race and was almost stopped when it happened. -- BL2

Not according to the jockey:

just as Eight Belles crossed the finish line, jockey Gabriel Saez "heard the worst sound possible - a pop."

there are some trainers and owners who run horses too soon. for instance after breedin and before they send them to auction, some trainers will have them run 2 furlongs and some people I have read say that this is really bad for them as they are barely two years old.....
common.....a horses leg are thin and very small bones that support about 1600 pounds or more. if you see one close up, you would be amazed at how small thier ankles are which is what this injury was....
and phonix....I watched the replay several times and even commentators such as jerry baily said it too....crossing the line and after, she showed no signs of distress, but if saenz says he heard something, then thats what happened

oh yeah common.....the vet said that even if the injury was operated on, that it would never heal and she couldnt have survived because the foot had been.....oh shit....what do they call it.....the inside had been exposed and that somehow makes it impossible to heal and the vet also said that it was an injury that would cause a great deal of pain.
and just in case you wondered, the assn. that oversees racing will not allow artificial breeding...the mare and the sire have to stand....so it was impossible to breed her which, unfortantly has become a very large part of the sport.
we are talking multiple millions in her case. she was a monsterous filly at 17 hands which is Huge....a normal horse is considered large at 14 to 15 hands high.
bottom line...the injury would have never healed and it would have caused her a great deal of pain and thus they put her down......

eight bells
2005-2008
RIP......what a heart.

BLT

I'm truly touched by your compassion for this unfortunate filly. I was in the business for many years myself and I fully understand the decision to euthanize this wonderful animal.

For those lesser informed . . .

All thoroughbreds have an official birthday on January 1 regardless of the date they were actually foaled. I couldn't find Eight Bells actual date of birth but I know it's not uncommon for a late foal, April or May of the year, to render the horse much younger than what appears on her papers. I'm not saying this is the case with Eight Bells. I'm only saying that thoroughbreds are often a lot less physically mature than most people know. Chronologically, they're not true 3 year olds.

Again . . . I'm touched by your depth of feeling. The loss of this marvelous horse transends all money considerations. Anybody who has ever been associated with the stable area knows this and feels the pain.

Big Brown - First
the filly second
Colonel John (and Captain in the Navy equates to Colonel in the other branches of the military) somewhere back in the pack.

Sport imitating life?

crossing the line and after, she showed no signs of distress, but if saenz says he heard something, then thats what happened -- twinpac

The racing commission needs to examine its doping policies.

Lasix is a place to start. It's not a painkiller, but keeps other drugs from showing up in tests. It's banned for human athletes, but still used in race horses.

Remember this is just the tip of the iceberg -- in fact there was a colt who collapsed on the same track Friday, and is given only a 50/50 chance of making it. And of course, Barbaro in the 2006 Preakness.

California went to all synthetic - anyone know if it's had a positive effect? Santa Anita's first try (at synthetic) was so crappy they had to replace the whole thing.

the stats are that synthetic is better for the horses. the problem is that it is changing the game and like it or not, the game is gambling. there ARE plenty of people who go to the races to see the horses but there are many more who go to see the horses and bet and just as in so many other things......money talks.

for instance, one reason that barbaro was given such a longer period of time to recup wasnt just that he was magnificent and the owners loved him..BUT they were talking about multiple upon multiple dollars in breeding

FOR EXAMPLE.....storm cat is the sire of horses who run AND WIN on dirt, turf, off tracks...they are good going long, short or medium distances and people pay out the ass for his "stuff" to the tune of FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS A POP......this can be verified by looking at any racing form in the breeding part and I am looking RIGHT NOW at a horse named therecomesatiger at tampa bay downs who is running in the 11th race.
it says he is out of tiger ridge who is OUT of storm cat and the breeding fee for this son of storm cat is $80,000. and this baby has in 19 races won $413,806. so you see so much of this game is abl about the money. ALSO you can see why storm cat only raced a handfull of races BUT won either all of them or all but one and they were big races even if he wasnt on the triple crown trail.


JOMAMA......santa anita must have gotten some bad stuff because keenland and arlington park and turfway have all had much better luck with thier synthetic.....

OH and another reason for the track......tracks such as turfway who run in the winter used to miss almost a month of running and when they dont run people dont make money....I cant tell you how many times I spent a couple of hours on working a turfway card in the winter only to get to the track here and see that it was cancelled because of ice and snow.....so it helps in that regard as well..
problem ......picking a winner is forecasting what will happen by looking at what DID happen and it is a big difference going from a track with layers of different kinds of dirt to one that is fake stuff.
the best example I can give any of you is to think about how fast you run on concrete and then think about how fast you run on a carpet and then think about how fast you can run on the beach.....its not different for the horses.
and thats all of the handicapping and horse info from me.....longshot louie

twinpac....I understand your 'confusion' since we on the right are so cold and heartless when it comes to the elderly and the infirmed and young children running around with no clothes or medical insurance....so its okay
and by the way....the racing form says that 8 bells was folded in feb......( to the ones unfamilar....twin is right about all horses being a year older in jan but the form tells you exactly when....so if he was born in feb, then I guess they said he was 2 the next jan but in accuality he was less than that ...is that correct twinpack???? if it is when they call him 12 months....he was only 11. for instance BIG BROWN's fold month was april.....so how old does that REALLY make him....

also twin....there is no animal more beautifull than a horse...they are so friggin smart and just like 8 bells, they are atheletes who dont bitch about what they can get from people and you dont worry about if they are role models or who they are having affairs with and all of the other bullshit we get from professional athelets today and all they ask for is some oats and a couple of apples, a pat on the head and to be able to run........
and then when they are done, if they are worthy, have a job we all should have.
thier job when retired is to run around a little bit and to hump as many fillies as they can get...
not bad work if you can get it......

Common--they have tried som many times in the past and the most recent was Barbaro to treat the horse and heal the broken ankle, etc.

This poor filly broke both front ankles--unbelievable to have this happen.

They have to strap the horse on a wench of some kind to keep them upright--and they are severly prone to deadly infections.

I was hoping with Barbaro that they could be successful--but unable to in the end. Very sad because these horses are beautiful and wonderful to watch at the track (and any where else for that matter).

We had several horses who were put down at the Del Mar track and they finally changed out the synthetic stuff and the deaths dropped.

Murphy

When the synthetic was switched out--they took out the dirt to replace with the synthetic --and the deaths dropped.

Dirt is harder and faster-KY is steeped in tradition and stupidity as my Dad says.

He says they should all run on the grass. It would prevent injuries but the times would increase as not as fast.

Murphy

Talking with my Dad-who loves horses--

Barbaro was in a cast and just coulnd't heal--now they were trying to save the life of the horse--but it was for the stud fees they would have generated. They develop some nasty infections and it killed the horse.

And horses need those front legs to do the whoppy with the female.

Seattle Slew was a great stud! They are everywhere! Alidar is a great one who lost to Affirmed who won the triple crown but not a very good stud.

There was a horse--War Emblem--Japanese syndicate bought the Derby horse--they put it out for stud and has only produced about 50 folds since 2002, when the average stud produces over a 100 per year.

Losing money on that sucker--which is not good in Japan--they got tired of trying on another horse and they sold the horse for meat and they ate him!

It is against the law to inseminate horses--no way to keep out the fraud that would ensue--they would have a DNA truck running around the track checking DNA!

Murphy

and you know murphy....secretariat hasnt had a whole lot of good sons or daughters....at least not like what you would think.
two of my favorite breeding angles have to do with mr prospector....another whose babies run good on any surface, distance or class....
and a horse that is still stud in texas is wild again....this horse's babies run just like mister P.....
so barbaro would have commanded a ton of money but there is NO GUARANTEE in that business as far as how they will run.
and remember that curlin.....a monster and horse of the year who just won the dubai 3 million and was horse of the year was bought as a 50,000 claimer...and thats a lot of money for most of us but he has returned like 8 million or so....thats NOT TOO BAD Of a return on investment

and all of you....its a shame that horse racing cant get a larger audience, isnt it......if anyone were to stand around the paddock and see.....even the 5,000 claimers or just magnificent animals..
regal and smart and atheletic and people shouldnt let some sort of "damon runyan" deal keep them from the sport.

oh yeah murphy....forgot....you mentioned alydar and affirmed.......and I talked about fan interest.....if people could see the triple crown races where these two battled it out foot by foot through the stretch, they might keep coming....
and wasnt affirmed the last triple crown winner.....that may not be true after the belmont next month.....for sure since other horses who had been planning on the preakness or belmont...many of them will in all likely hood start looking for other races...because the big brown is a freaking monster.......

ALL RIGHT!!!!!!!!!

8th race at tampa bay.....

flymambo....paid me 12.80 to win TIMES TWO
and exacta paid 36.60 TIMES TWO......thats a nice little pickup of a happy meal short of a hundred bucks......YYYYYAAAAAAAAHHHHHO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!

Secretariat wasn't that interested in being a stud. Affirmed was the last in 1978 or so--Seattle Slew was '76 I think?

This KY Derby is so tough. First is the age of the horse and they are competitors--but the Derby is the first time that they run the race at 1 and 1/4 mile.

All of the horses prior races were at 1 mile and an 1/8.

Not to say they haven't been training for the distance--but difficult all the same--

Then the Preakness and finally the Belmont which is 1 mile and a 1/2 (?).

This filly ran her heart out. Thank goodness they surrounded her with the vehicles to hide from the crowd her getting euthanized.

I was at Del Mar when a horse went down at the finish line--got the shakes and was suffering from heat exhaustion--they were hosing down the horse for like 25 minutes before it could get up and walk off the track. And the crowd all clapped for the horse--like it was an injured player!

Murphy

well they are the players
the guys at the golf course always give me money to make bets on the triple crown races and breeders cup and they get on my ass when I try and tell them how hard the derby is to handicap......always 20 horses and even though it didnt matter to the brown monster......my other picks.....pyro and colonel john got hammered coming out of the gates and thier race was over....so having 20 makes it hard...and you are right.....I have computer program that ranks energy displacement and it works best when horses run same general distances on similar tracks which is why I DIDNT have the great filly in there.
of course it was also superstition....I ran it again and it had her in the race at the end...and BEING A STUBBORN KNUCKLEHEAD...I refused to put a filly in the top two just like the belmont when I REFUSED to play a girl against the boys....

which is one reason why her death made me so sad....its almost like she had to show all of the doubters like me that she belonged no matter what.

so you've been to where the TURF MEETS THE SEA....I hear thats a pretty place...and they are also some of the ones who are going to have to do something with thier synthetic surface.....I never got a handle on what bias I could count on......


ALL RIGHT>......tampa bay 10 is now official...
WHEW!!!!!! 10 dollar winner with a 68 dollar exacta.........going to outback tonight......

BL2, Thanks for the info.

and I was right.......there are already all kinds of bitching from animal rights people and such....
and its so bad when this happens but these animals are taken care of better than many parents take care of their children.......story out just a little bit ago.....

Big Brown ran an amazing race. Started WAY outside and was 4 horses wide, and like 7th going around the bend. The jockey was holding him back! When he gave her a nudge she bolted into first. Then the jockey hit her and she turned on the afterburners. Eight bells ran an incredible race as well, and you could see her giving her all, and finished superbly. I was shocked to learn of her breakdown, that's really sad for the owners.

That was the best Derby I've ever seen except for Secretariat, THE most exciting horse OF ALL TIME!!!

timely info


Reports by veterinarians at 34 tracks across the country between June 2007 and early this year showed synthetic tracks averaged 1.47 fatalities per 1,000 starts, compared with 2.03 fatalities per 1,000 starts for horses that ran on dirt.

But not everyone is convinced.

"This is a very big issue and needs to be discussed," two-time Derby winning trainer Nick Zito said. "You're changing the whole game. Big Brown ran on dirt yesterday, he's going for history. You can't tell me the Polytrack is history. It's not yet, there isn't enough data yet."

That's not saying Zito and other horsemen are not interested in making racetracks safer for both horses and jockeys.

"If you told me, `Look, we have a device that these horses can run on pillows and never get hurt the rest of lives,' I'd say, `Where do I sign?'" Zito said. "There's injuries on the Polytrack, too. Now you see why I'm saying it's a big issue."

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) issued a statement Sunday calling for the suspension of Eight Belles jockey Gabriel Saez. The group also asked for the "revocation of the second place prize."

Saez was riding in his first Kentucky Derby when Eight Belles broke both front ankles while galloping out a quarter-mile past the finish line.

"What we really want to know, did he feel anything along the way?" PETA spokeswoman Kathy Guillermo said. "If he didn't then we can probably blame the fact that they're allowed to whip the horses mercilessly."

A call to the jockeys' room at Delaware Park, where Saez raced on Sunday, went unanswered.

The Kentucky state racing stewards make decisions on suspensions, but there is no racing at Churchill Downs until Wednesday. At that time, the stewards could review a tape of the race if a formal request is made.

Eight Belles trainer Larry Jones disputed any suggestion that his horse had no business taking on the boys.

"It wasn't that, it wasn't the distance, it wasn't a big bumping match for her, she never got touched," he said. "She passed all those questions ... with flying colors. The race was over, all we had to do was pull up, come back and be happy. It just didn't happen."

The horse was bred to race, fuck peta

dave.,....

I have a video all about secretariat and it will make even you tear up a little.
a fact.....when he died they did an autopsy
and YES ITS TRUE>.....his heart was ACTUALLY larger than an average heart....by almost 50% according to the vet who did it.


and notice what the peta lady said.....whipped mercilessly....I have news for her...that doesnt hurt them on most every situation and its used for positioning the horse almost as much as it is used to 'push their button'...and many times its used to avoid crashing into another horse which can injure others as WELL AS THE JOCKEY
and I saw the end of this race at least two dozen times and he in no way whipped her in that fashion
this bitch is full of shit.

The race was over, all we had to do was pull up, come back and be happy. It just didn't happen."


thats right LADY from peta kiss my ass,.

sometimes....shit happens. I mean look what happened with congressional elections in 06?????

just thought I would ass a little jockularity to the situation.

Secretariat (March 30, 1970 October 4, 1989) was an American Thoroughbred racehorse. Secretariat won the 1973 Triple Crown, becoming the first Triple Crown winner in 25 years, and set still standing track records in two of the three races in the Series, the Kentucky Derby (1:59 2/5), and the Belmont Stakes (2:24). Like the famous racehorse Man o' War, Secretariat was a large chestnut and thus was given the same nickname, "Big Red".......At the finish, he won by 31 lengths (breaking the margin-of-victory record set by Triple Crown winner Count Fleet, who won by 25 lengths) and ran the fastest 1 1/2 miles on dirt in history, 2:24 flat, which broke the stakes record by more than 2 seconds Secretariat's world record still stands, and in fact, no other horse has ever broken 2:25 for 1 1/2 miles on dirt. If the Beyer Speed Figure calculation had been developed during that time, Andrew Beyer calculated that Secretariat would have earned a figure of 139, one of the highest figures he has ever assigned.

He did the Belmont carrying the MOST WEIGHT ever given to a horse as a handicap

I know ....I watched it while at home from college and I will never forget it and this video interviews various "Experts" who said halfway through the race they were calling for the firing of the jocky......( hey its weird isnt it..we know the horses name but not the jockey...was it arcaro?) anyway.......he was sending him too soon.
belmont is the largest track in the country I believe and its the only track where a mile and a 16th is a ONE TURN RACE and its the longest race of them all...and think about it....run a mile and a half and going 'ABOUT 40 miles an hour.....but he sent him too soon and the jockey tells you that he had no choice...that secretariat knew what he was doing and he paid no attention to the efforts to hold him back......it was as spectacular a sight in all of sports as anyone will ever see again......
and as I said.....having a big heart wasnt just a line to say, it was a fact.

The horse was bred to race, fuck peta -- DavetheWave

This would be the Michael Vick defense?