Rogers,
Please update my e-mail address!!!

Saw this coming. The thin blue line again and again.

50 bullets for an unarmed man...pffft. Murderers.

this is a worse decision than Bush v Gore, for sure.

i hope they burn that city to the ground

Apparently the Judge doesn't agree with you.

His car seems like a decent weapon to me.

50 bullets for an unarmed man...pffft. Murderers.

31 from one guy alone! How the hell can you say you were concerned that you were in danger when you've reloaded twice in shooting an unarmed man?

A photo of Sean Bell with his fiancee Nicole Paultre and one of his children is displayed at a memorial dedicated to the shooting victim on Nov. 28, 2006, in Jamaica, Queens.


"One" of his children. I'm shocked.

Good thing 2 of the 3 officers were black. Now the riot and looting will be only 1/3 as bad as it could have been.

Chair, I believe the third officer is hispanic (but not certain). Surely, which will mitigate the involvement of the black community "leaders" (e.g., Sharpton, Jackson) as there is really no racial basis from which to rabble rouse.

From the story, the detective really believed the victim was armed, based on prior observation. And they mistook multiple gunfire (from them) to be an exchange rather than one-sided, hence the number of shots fired. The victim also apparently ignored an order to halt and rammed a police van that pulled up.

The judge in this case said he didn't believe the witnesses of the prosecution because they had bad police records in the past. WHAT, if that is the case many many Black could never get a fair trial in this Country. The number of Blacks in Jails in this country is way over there % of the population. So does that mean that every time a black witness says something in court his record will be more important as to what he is saying under oath?

The Thin blue line is alive an well. Every Cop is given the benefit of the doubt in front of any Judge in this Country if anyone doubts that you are a fucking Idiot.

Murder is what this was, an for the police spokesman to say that they are no winners or losers in this case is CRAP. Mr, Bell family, Mr. Bells wife to be, Mr. Bells two children they are the losers, the family is destroyed forever because the police KILLED an innocent man with no firearm in his possession.

These three PIGS, are freed because they taught that the defendant had a gun, no gun, bad decision.
The fact that one officer had shot his gun 31 times, even reloaded, or that two of the officers were Black, somehow make the KILLING O.K. is also crap, The thin Blue line is more important to these black officers than there community, once you become a cop you are no longer a BLACK you are a COP much more important to them, what a disgrace.

Good, the judge had common sense and sided with the cops instead of thugs that hit one cop with his car and then made a movement for a possible weapon.

The cops had no idea that he did not have a gun in the car, the driver had already rammed a police van that came in for backup. The officer overheard one of them say GO GET MY GUN...

Cops have a hard enough job. They made a split second decision to eliminate a what they perceived as a threat. You can whine and cry all day but if the little thugs had had a gun and air in their lungs they could have fired at the cops. if it takes 50 bullets then it takes 50 bullets.

"One" of his children. I'm shocked.

I agree, anyone who only has a photo with only one of his children should have at least 70 bullets in him...minimum.

So, all these people who weren't there and weren't on the jury are gonna say they know better what happened? Christ, why don't we just as AlGore to decide the matter?

Cops have a hard enough job. They made a split second decision to eliminate a what they perceived as a threat. You can whine and cry all day but if the little thugs had had a gun and air in their lungs they could have fired at the cops. if it takes 50 bullets then it takes 50 bullets.

Reloading twice is not a split second decision.

once you become a cop you are no longer a BLACK you are a COP much more important to them, what a disgrace.

What kind of RACIST BULLSHIT is that. The police have an obligation to uphold the law. If Blacks, Whites, Asians, Hispanics, etc are doing the crime who gives a damn what ethnicity the officer is. they have a job and they should do.

Time for that classic spring time song:

KILLA POE LEASE

Something tells me we will hear that song in NYC this weekend.

Good call by the judge.

Reloading twice is not a split second decision.

Nope, but making the decision to open fire was. After that the thought process turns to ensuring the threat is eliminated.

3 cops--50 bullets. Do the math. The cops should be in jail, and the judge removed from office.

Let's hope these cops don't "think" you are going for your gun when they stop you for a traffic ticket---tell them you have a right to life like that groom. Tell them they work for you. Tell them you have rights like that groom. Those rights will be as valid as the grooms.

;-)

Aryof1- Cuz it takes 3 cops unloading 50 bullets to stop one guy who isn't even armed. Good call.

These cops need to learn how to aim if they want to kill people without suspending the publics disbelief.

cuz 1 to the head is easier to believe than 50 all over the damn place.

So, all these people who weren't there and weren't on the jury are gonna say they know better what happened? Christ, why don't we just as AlGore to decide the matter?

You've been doing that for 5 years in Iraq, so what's the problem?

Or do you have a monopoly on armchair quarterbacking?

Bob, did you even read the facts in the case.. Probably not...

Cop hears member of group say go get my gun,
Officers identify themselves, order group to halt, they are ignored
Driver of car hits cop
Driver of car hits police van
Passenger makes quick movement
Cop assumes he is going for weapon based on overheard comments
Officers shoot suspects. Who gives a shit if 50 bullets are used. If the thugs would have had a gun it might have only taken one to kill the cop. They were justified in shooting...

Aryof1- Cuz it takes 3 cops unloading 50 bullets to stop one guy who isn't even armed. Good call.

These cops need to learn how to aim if they want to kill people without suspending the publics disbelief.

Posted by Alexandrite at 2008-04-25 11:02 AM | Reply

There were three in the car for one Alex, they had an assumption that there was a weapon in the car. that places their life at risk. the evidence proved that.

Facism is a Police State run by inhuman Capitalists. Welcome to the New American Century.

Facism is a Police State run by inhuman Capitalists. Welcome to the New American Century.

Posted by nutcase at 2008-04-25 11:08 AM | Reply

I'm sorry, I guess I missed the whole these thugs tried to run the cop down. Them defending themselves and killing one of them in the process makes this country a police state.

WOW, thats a stretch... RUN IN FEAR RUN IN FEAR!!!

"ARMYOF1"...Those in charge use the fact that those officers were black as a reason to justify the Murder, THE THIN BLUE LINE, superceedes anything else they are going to protect each other no matter what. Every Black American should be disturbed by this decision, Black America cannot get a fair trial in this Country when it come to there word against a COP and they will be killed without being ever held responsible, it happens everyday.....By the way ASSHOLE the officers were dress in cilvilian clothes, these young men may not have know that they were COPS...All we have is the word of the Cops, did you expect that they would have testifies otherwise? They were protecting there ASSes, Black or White or Hispanic....

Nutcase,

The first and most successful fascist states were run by socialists. Hitler's Germany, Stalin's USSR, Mao's China, Mussolini's Italy. Don't know where you're coming from, unless it's the asylum.

They were protecting there ASSes, Black or White or Hispanic....

Posted by celisary at 2008-04-25 11:11 AM | Reply

Wow, talk about bitter. Thanks for the personal attack, the whole ASSHOLE comment, since you can't articulate the fact that the three blacks were wrong by A) not stopping when the cops identified themselves, B) by hitting one of the cops, C) hitting the police van. But I guess because they are black they should get a free pass right. BULL SHIT... Get out of the FOG of everyone out to get the BLACK MAN. The groom and his friends made a bad decision, that cost the groom his life. Its is sad that he dies, however, blaming the cops just to blame the cops is bullshit....

I agree, anyone who only has a photo with only one of his children should have at least 70 bullets in him...minimum.

Posted by IraqiBukkake at 2008-04-25 10:53 AM | Reply


That's a little extreme. 50 bullets fired, with multiple hits seems to be appropriate.

What is with all you cop haters? If you want to change the system, become a cop and try to change it from within.

"ARMYOF1"...If you saw a Black man dressed in civilian clothes at 4am with a pistol in his hand an you are in a Car would you open your window an ask him what he wanted, I think not any one with a grain of brains would have tried to take off. This was MURDER, an hopefully the Federal Goverment will do something.

If ther was no problem with this shooting why were thes police officer not given test to see if there drinking, the Police Department is even now changing procedure as to how to handle these type of cases in the future. If the procedure was indeed followed than why would it need to be changed? MURDER ASSHOLE MURDER that what this was....

MURDER ASSHOLE MURDER that what this was....

Posted by celisary at 2008-04-25 11:19 AM | Reply

Good GOD!!!! Aparently the judge based on teh EVIDENCE didn't hink it was murder, but I guess you in your infinite detective skills, and your innate ability to see facts that aren't there knows what really happened.

The testimony and evidence said that the cops identified themselves as the THUGS were walking to their car. they did not stop. Nowhere did I read that the cops already had their guns drawn. Quit making shit up and open your blind ass racist eyes...

After that the thought process turns to ensuring the threat is eliminated.

So what if he ran out of bullets? Go get the shotgun and continue unloading with "precision"? These people are paid to make well reasoned decisions under duress (i.e. somewhere between bullets 3 and 31, hell maybe even during reloading twice) That's what their paid for. Or should a "hard job" be a license to completely ignore public safety?

Cops have a hard enough job. They made a split second decision to eliminate a what they perceived as a threat. You can whine and cry all day but if the little thugs had had a gun and air in their lungs they could have fired at the cops. if it takes 50 bullets then it takes 50 bullets.

Cry me a fucking river. They took their job. If it's too hard for you to run a thought through your head before spraying 30 bullets, get a job doing mall security. I didn't ask them to.

Protect and serve. You aren't protecting the public when you're pumping 50 rounds in the open air. That at the very least is negligence.

While the conduct of the man who was shot was suspicious, I think 50 bullets exceeds whatever was needed. Turned out the guy didn't even have a gun. I could see shooting that much if you saw a machine gun or something. The court's decision turning on whether the cops had reason to believe they were in danger seems misguided. I think they should at least be fired or reprimanded for responding to that danger, reasonable or not, with too much force.

Protect and serve. You aren't protecting the public when you're pumping 50 rounds in the open air. That at the very least is negligence.

Posted by IraqiBukkake at 2008-04-25 11:27 AM | Reply

THe round hit the car, you ever tried shooting a gun IRAQ... Put three rounds inside a pie plate accurately at 20 yards. No do it while the target is moving, and you are moving to ensure that you don't get shot.

HMM intersting when all the factors get put into play.

As far as the job, WTF... They made the decision and ensured that they would not be injured in the process. Pretty smart if you ask me.

So in your logic they should fire 2-3 rounds and then give the Thugs a chance to fire back at them. RETARDED!!!!

I'd assume what happened was the following:

Fiancee and his posse were at the strip joint getting BJ's (the place was being watched for prostitution. The fiancee and his posse were wasted, started a fight in the club, and got bounced. As they were leaving they harrassed the undercover cop, the cop attempted to stop them, they (being drunk) refused to stop, tried to further ignore the cop, and then one of the retards bluffed about having a "gat".

Then, they all took a swig of Grape Hi-C, lit a menthol, rolled a blunt, rammed the van, and then played catch with some bullets.

Case Closed

Sarge

What is with all you cop haters? If you want to change the system, become a cop and try to change it from within.

Guys like these are more than happy to take the rights and privileges of being an officer of the law, but the second they make a poor judgement call, out come the tears about how hard their job is.

Go read about Jeff Baird and the Mollen commission and then get back to me about your fairy tale of "change from within".

Iraqibukkake,

So, not only do you know more than the jury or the judge, you know these cops personally....Wow, you get around....Don't see how you met those cops from your momma's basement...

Well, I suggest you not try then, just give up. That is what losers do.

So in your logic they should fire 2-3 rounds and then give the Thugs a chance to fire back at them. RETARDED!!!!

Hell, they should still be shooting now... I mean, how could they be sure? If we can't expect these clowns to make good decisions and they are supposed to be the professionals, why the fuck do we even have them? Fifty rounds into an unarmed man is not the work of professionals, it is the Wild West.

Remember the good old days when law enforcement was held to a higher standard? Ahh... those were the days.

Also, do you really want to go down the slippery slope of shootings being justified by "he may have had a weapon"?

JPW, do we really want to force officers to be targets before their instincts tell them to fire. I would think this would be tremendously worse.

I think the biggest tragedy in this whole affair was that only one negro was shot to death. Seemed to me there was a whole carload of worthless, criminal, parasites that could have been purged from existence.

And yes, they were habitual criminals. I remember reading that between the lot of them there was something like 50+ criminal convictions. If the system was working like it was suppose to work, those thugs would have been in prison and not out thugging it up at some drug infested part of town at 3am.

Good job NYPD....Protect, Serve and Purge.

Fifty rounds into an unarmed man is not the work of professionals, it
Posted by IraqiBukkake at 2008-04-25 11:38 AM | Reply

YOU people love hindsight don't you. it is so easy to judge after the fact. Unarmed man, shot and killed blah blah blah... PATHETIC...

The cops made a decision at the time based on the evidence that they had. END of Story. they are not guilty, they did not do anything legally wrong so get over it...

NONPCPERSON - I truly hope you are just stirring shit by saying something like that. There are a lot of very good blacks in this world. There are many i work with that I would rather be around then some of the trashy ass whites.

This is not a racial issue, it is simply a decision was made in a split second and the officers defended themselves. Nothing racist about it.

So, not only do you know more than the jury or the judge, you know these cops personally....Wow, you get around....Don't see how you met those cops from your momma's basement...

Wow, a 4th rate insult from a 3rd rate poster. It warms the heart, it really does.

Now back to your cop worship candlelight vigil.

"JPW, do we really want to force officers to be targets before their instincts tell them to fire. I would think this would be tremendously worse."

I'm not saying the officers should make themselves targets first before firing. Hell, I'm not even saying they have to be shot AT first. But to open up and completely unload your weapon due to a motion within the vehicle is premature and a bad decision.

Also, is spray and pray the current policy of NYPD? They were lucky as hell it was 4 in the morning and there wasn't bystanders. Another bad decision, particularly to reload TWICE.

I hope those cops tazed the guy a few times after they shot him to death. You can never be too sure...

In New York.....was there ever any doubt?

Wow, a 4th rate insult from a 3rd rate poster. It warms the heart, it really does.

Now back to your cop worship candlelight vigil.

Posted by IraqiBukkake at 2008-04-25 11:48 AM | Reply

Wow, a coward that posts bullshit and can't back up his argument with anything more than personal attacks, and fake evidence. GOOD JOB, you personify what truly ales this country. Pathetic cowards that hide not willing to step up to the plate but are willing to condemn in a moments notice without ever having placed their ass in the fire...

This is not a racial issue, it is simply a decision was made in a split second and the officers defended themselves. Nothing racist about it.

Stop saying firing 31 rounds and reloading twice is a split second decision...you sound retarded. Why don't you throw saving a baby from a burning building in there too to elevate the pedestal of these douchebags a couple more feet?

ZOT thats actually pretty funny...

i doubt they did that though...

The cops shouldn't be able to use "suspected weapon" as either a defence at trial or an invitation to open fire on a public street. If the deceased were to be found with a gun, fine, action warranted. But if no gun is found the cops need to be held responsible for their miscalculations.

We hear constantly that cops "risk their lives" in the line of duty but that simply isn't true. Statistically truck drivers have a more dangerous job. Cops don't risk their lives to protect the community, they risk YOUR life, or the life of any "suspect" caught in their net. If confronted with even the slightest possibility of personal harm they will not hesitate to kill you and anyone with you. Their life is more important that your life or the lives of everyone in your car/home.

At a minimum cops should be held to the same standard as Joe Public. A citizen can't open fire on someone just because they didn't stop when asked or motioned too quickly.

"Then, they all took a swig of Grape Hi-C, lit a menthol, rolled a blunt, rammed the van, and then played catch with some bullets."

You're going to get me fired for laughing so much.

Stop saying firing 31 rounds and reloading twice is a split second decision...you sound retarded. Why don't you throw saving a baby from a burning building in there too to elevate the pedestal of these douchebags a couple more feet?

Posted by IraqiBukkake at 2008-04-25 11:51 AM | Reply

IRAQ, the split second decision,AS I HAVE STATED IF YOU ACTUALLY COULD READ, was making the decision to fire.

After that the officer was making decisions based on instinct. If he thought that his life or one of the other officers lives were still in danger he was fully justified continuing to fire at the vehicle/thugs.

DID YOU U-N-D-E-R-S-T-A-N-D THAT~!!!! I CAN put more pauses in there just in case you didn't

R8R - the only problem with that is reaction time. If an officer perceives a weapon and or a suspect makes a motion towards his belt line, under a coat etc. the officer has a split second to decide whether to defend himself or not. If they are forced to wait until the actually see a gun, by then it is too late and teh suspect will already be firing on the officer or have the drop on him/her.

Wow, a coward that posts bullshit and can't back up his argument with anything more than personal attacks, and fake evidence. GOOD JOB, you personify what truly ales this country. Pathetic cowards that hide not willing to step up to the plate but are willing to condemn in a moments notice without ever having placed their ass in the fire...

What the fuck are you talking about? Defend myself from a "Mom's basement" attack? Fake evidence? Seriously dude, wipe away the froth.

If my refusal to participate in hero worship with you regarding individuals whose jobs are less dangerous than a garbageman make me a coward in your eyes, so be it. Not like I care anyway, but thanks for thinking about me.

IRAQi, your a joke, basement attack, frothing at the.. mouth BWHAHAHAHAHAHAA....

There are an arse load of bad cops out there... I've been around law enforcement now for 31 yrs trust me I know.

You are a coward, you have probably always been a coward. its ok, leave the hard work to real men and women that are willing to put their lives on the line...

And to say that a garbase man has a tougher or more dangerous job than a cop, well, that just goes to show just how ignorant you are...

IRAQ, the split second decision,AS I HAVE STATED IF YOU ACTUALLY COULD READ, was making the decision to fire.

After that the officer was making decisions based on instinct. If he thought that his life or one of the other officers lives were still in danger he was fully justified continuing to fire at the vehicle/thugs.

DID YOU U-N-D-E-R-S-T-A-N-D THAT~!!!! I CAN put more pauses in there just in case you didn't

He had a 15 round clip, only reloaded once, I stand corrected.

BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG

(reload)

BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG


When a supervisor later asked Oliver about the shooting, Oliver was unsure whether he had fired any shots at all, a high-ranking police source tells the Voice. Even making allowances for the extreme adrenaline rush, fear, and confusion that reign at any shooting, police investigators looked askance at Oliver when he said that. Any cop can understand not recalling firing one or two bullets, but two full clips? In the end, the investigators didn't push it, chalking up Oliver's curious statement to shock, the police source said. They jotted down what he said and included his statement in a preliminary report that Queens District Attorney Richard Brown says "raises as many questions as it answers."

This to me is chilling... You're ready to blow him and give him a medal.

You are a coward, you have probably always been a coward. its ok, leave the hard work to real men and women that are willing to put their lives on the line...

:D


And to say that a garbase man has a tougher or more dangerous job than a cop, well, that just goes to show just how ignorant you are...

Don't believe me. Look it up. Law enforcement is not in the top 10 most dangerous jobs. I know that seems impossible to you in the midst of you singing Wind Beneath My Wings while looking lovingly at these paragons of virtue, but it is. Sorry.

Time for Civil Court. OJ learned that. The proof isn't as stringent.

Fuck tha police
Comin straight from the underground
Young nigga got it bad cuz I'm brown
And not the other color so police think
They have the authority to kill a minority

Fuck that shit, cuz I ain't tha one
For a punk muthafucka with a badge and a gun
To be beatin on, and throwin in jail
We could go toe to toe in the middle of a cell

Fuckin with me cuz I'm a teenager
With a little bit of gold and a pager
Searchin my car, lookin for the product
Thinkin every nigga is sellin narcotics

You'd rather see me in the pen
Then me and Lorenzo rollin in the Benzo
Beat tha police outta shape
And when I'm finished, bring the yellow tape
To tape off the scene of the slaughter
Still can't swallow bread and water

I don't know if they fags or what
Search a nigga down and grabbin his nuts
And on the other hand, without a gun they can't get none
But don't let it be a black and a white one
Cuz they slam ya down to the street top
Black police showin out for the white cop

Ice Cube will swarm
On any muthafucka in a blue uniform
Just cuz I'm from the CPT, punk police are afraid of me
A young nigga on a warpath
And when I'm finished, it's gonna be a bloodbath
Of cops, dyin in LA
Yo Dre, I got somethin to say

Fuck the police (4X)

you're looking pretty stupid Army of 1. While I might agree that the decision to fire was the correct one, I believe it is impossible to justify 50+ bullets by supposedly professional law enforcement. BTW, the cowards here are the ones who do know and have been around law enforcement and won't admit mistakes under any circumstances. THAT MEANS YOU!!

Yeah, Ice Cube. He's hard core Check out his badass performance in that movie "Are We There Yet".

Hey thanks Geezer, No I am not in law enforcement, I did my time serving with the Third Infantry division.

But that doesn't account for anything I guess.

If a suspect still has air in his/her lungs then they can still lift a gun and shoot an officer. If an officer(or in this case 5 officers) shoot a total of 50 bullets to ensure that the suspect doesn't return fire I really don't think that is dumb. I would say that is protecting themselves. But hey, like I said earlier, hind-sight is 20/20 and for some of you on here it is easier to condemn then to put yourselves in their shoes.

And please explain how I am looking dumb, the facts are the facts. these thugs went down a path that led to this outcome.

i love to hear monday morning qb's prove themselves as idiots.

i love to hear cop haters go on about the evil police, but when you hear a bump in the night or a window break, quick honey call 911 whilst i go downstairs with my golf club.

blacks are 62% of the prison population and less than 30% of the US pop.

here in charlotte crime is up 11% over last year and guess what color the perps are on the news every damn night? do whites commit crimes, certainly but, not in a ridiculously high percentage as blacks. why is that, the opinions are as varied as the weather.

so to assume these guys were on their best behavior that night, as opposed to their history, please.

Too bad that none of the officers were White, then the narratve could be crammewd into the template that Whites are always killing Blacks and Sharpton and Jackson could ride into town on their high horses and make all weeny white libs feel guilty.

Cops have gotten to a point where they're cops, judge, jury and executioner too. II favor doubling the pay of any cop who displays a clear understanding that he works for me and not vice versa, but that doesn't begin to touch the growing wave of gang-style police executions.

My beloved ACLU has a partial answer. Civilian review boards. In "courts of law," judges feel aligned with cops - law enforcement brethren, so to speak. Review boards might add a little citizen input. herm

Cops didn't even get a breathalyzer at the scene. wanna know why? Because they were drunk and their judgment was affected.

Undercover cops are supposed to be able to have a few drinks to fit in. They were at this strip club for hours before the action started. How many strip clubs have you been to where they allow you to take up space for only a couple of drinks over the course of hours? None, that's how many.

If you aren't drinking, you aren't staying. period. Unless you can be seen tipping $100 bills for lap dances.

Now it is time for these cops to sue Al Sharpton and Sean Bell's family for slander, libel, and vilation of their civil rights

And please explain how I am looking dumb, the facts are the facts. these thugs went down a path that led to this outcome.

Posted by armyof1


You're the one who said you were around law enforcement for 31 years. In a military situation I can see firing 50+ rounds but please show me an instance where, in the past, police needed 50+ rounds to take down someone. This is setting a new standard and giving even civilians, involved in a shooting, the opportunity to claim that someone was reaching for a gun. Many states are moving to approve carrying concealed weapons. I believe that giving these guys a pass on the firepower is going to come back to bite us in the ass. BTW, 50+ rounds and they only killed one of the three?

You're the one who said you were around law enforcement for 31 years. In a military situation I can see firing 50+ rounds but please show me an instance where, in the past, police needed 50+ rounds to take down someone. This is setting a new standard and giving even civilians, involved in a shooting, the opportunity to claim that someone was reaching for a gun. Many states are moving to approve carrying concealed weapons. I believe that giving these guys a pass on the firepower is going to come back to bite us in the ass. BTW, 50+ rounds and they only killed one of the three?

Better yet, if it were you pulling the trigger, dispensing 31 rounds in 10-15 seconds with reload time, would you see the same results in a court of law? Of course not, you're not a "hero".

How about the North Hollywood shootout. There is one example where they needed a lot more than 50 bullets to take down two men.

Have you ever seen a pistol round and its impact on a car door. the door tends to win. High powered rifle rounds and the like have more punch and penetration power. handgun rounds dont.

"Have you ever seen a pistol round and its impact on a car door. the door tends to win."

If you're shooting 9mm.
A .44 magnum, OTOH ...

How about the North Hollywood shootout. There is one example where they needed a lot more than 50 bullets to take down two men.

Have you ever seen a pistol round and its impact on a car door. the door tends to win. High powered rifle rounds and the like have more punch and penetration power. handgun rounds dont.

You are incredible. You're going to compare a police shootout with 2 men armed with an AK-47, HK91, AR-15 (with modified drum magazine) and 3k rounds of ammunition to this? I really hope those straws are steel reinforced.

Other than former cops and their attendant rightwing Badge Bunnies, any honest person has to have some difficulty reconciling this verdict with the facts.

If you're shooting 9mm.
A .44 magnum, OTOH ...

Posted by Zatoichi at 2008-04-25 01:58 PM | Reply


I don't recall the ammo, but my buddy had a Colt Anaconda and I was firing a Glock 10mm (bought it second hand for $300, sold it back to the guy months later for $350 or so...). The Anaconda didn't make it through a phone book. The 10mm did.

I don't recall the ammo type, but at the time it struck me as odd that the .44 didn't make it.

Interesting. Try some of my .44 magnum handloads on WW296. The 10mm is about the same as a .41. I have a 10 in a Colt Delta Elite. Nice round.

How about the North Hollywood shootout. There is one example where they needed a lot more than 50 bullets to take down two men.

Posted by armyof1

HOLLYWOOD SHOOTOUT

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"SWAT officers exchange gunfire with Emil Matasareanu, one of two heavily armed bank robbers.
Location North Hollywood, Los Angeles, California, USA Date February 28, 1997
9:17 a.m. 10:01 a.m. (UTC-7)
Attack type Bank robbery
Weapon(s) AKM, Beretta pistol, AR-15
Deaths 2 (both perpetrators)
Injured 16[1]
Perpetrator(s) Larry Eugene Phillips, Jr. and
Emil Dechebal Matasareanu
The North Hollywood shootout was an armed confrontation between two heavily-armed and armored bank robbers, Larry Phillips, Jr. and Emil Matasareanu, and patrol and SWAT officers of the Los Angeles Police Department in North Hollywood, Los Angeles, California on February 28, 1997. It happened when responding patrol officers engaged Phillips and Matasareanu leaving the robbed bank. Seventeen officers and civilians sustained injuries before both robbers were killed. Phillips and Matasareanu had robbed several banks prior to their attempt in North Hollywood and were notorious for their heavy armament, which included automatic rifles.

United States patrol officers at the time were typically armed with a 9mm or .40 caliber pistol on their person, with a 12-gauge shotgun available in their cars. Phillips and Matasareanu carried fully automatic rifles and wore body armor. Since most handgun calibers cannot penetrate body armor, patrol officers had a significant disadvantage until SWAT arrived with equivalent firepower; they also appropriated several semi-automatic rifles from a nearby firearms dealer to help even the odds. The incident sparked debate on the appropriate firepower for patrol officers to have available in similar situations in the future.[2]"

A little different would'nt you say Aof1. In this case I don't think anyone disputed the force used. Poor example on your part.

I once debated a gun nut on TV. He was the Republican central committee chair, had "colonel" in front of his name, wore an American flag necktie and carried an Uzi under one arm, an AK47 under the other. It was intimidating, to be sure, but the 101-Zat dialog reminded me of that day. Laugh? I thought I'd die. herm

I have a 10 in a Colt Delta Elite. Nice round.

Posted by Zatoichi at 2008-04-25 02:06 PM | Reply


A little on the pricey side, that's why I sold it back (and the fact I didn't have a license for it and was moving from North Carolina back to NY). Then again, I imagine you load your own 10mm too.

"Let's hope these cops don't "think" you are going for your gun when they stop you for a traffic ticket"
b-boob


boob,

If they think I'm going for my gun, after I ram the police van with my car.....I just might have it coming.

"If they think I'm going for my gun, after I ram the police van with my car.....I just might have it coming.

Posted by kwrx25 at 2008-04-25 02:26 PM"

Of course, the cops will only come to realize you "rammed their police van" AFTER you've been shot to death. Sorta like the cops who took a steering wheel lock from the already dead guy's trunk and put it in his hand to prove they were just defending themselves.

Hey, I don't mind if a cop blows away a suspect with 1,000,000 shots.

But if it is shown that the guy does not have a gun and previous info has shown that the cops were acting on erroneous information. then........Justice should prevail.

By the way, anyone know if the DA can insist on a jury trial if a crim def waives his right to a jury? I assume not, or this prosecutor fucked up by trying this to a judge.

Monte, here in California both the prosecution and the defense have a right to a jury trial. Both sides must waive jury in order for a judge to decide a criminal case.

A throw-down steering wheel lock?
Now I've heard of everything.

Monte,

I would assume that ultimately the lawyer has to abide by the client's decision.

Keep fucking around. Ny might get away with this one......... again. however, sooner or later it always happens.

When you city experences the riots you will say, " gee those savages did, that or those savages did that!!". with no interest in cause and effect.

Hey, I don't mind if a cop blows away a suspect with 1,000,000 shots.

But if it is shown that the guy does not have a gun and previous info has shown that the cops were acting on erroneous information. then........Justice should prevail.

Posted by fresno500

rAmen

or this prosecutor fucked up by trying this to a judge

What makes you think the outcome was a "fuck up"?

I suspect the DA got the verdict he wanted.

Swish, R8. And the judge too.

I'm disappointed in some of the comments defending the cops, disappointed that they seem to come mostly from my side of the aisle. Why do conservatives seem so damn willing to come running to the defense of the government so often? Fuck.

Good, the judge had common sense and sided with the cops instead of thugs that hit one cop with his car and then made a movement for a possible weapon.
--ARMYOF1

The cops had no idea that he did not have a gun in the car,

the driver had already rammed a police van that came in for backup. The officer overheard one of them say GO GET MY GUN...

Cops have a hard enough job.

They made a split second decision to eliminate a what they perceived as a threat.

You can whine and cry all day but if the little thugs had had a gun and air in their lungs they could have fired at the cops. if it takes 50 bullets then it takes 50 bullets.

While I don't side with the cops one bit on this issue, it hardly seems relevant to me that the guy was getting married that day. Almost everyone who gets killed has people who will be horrified when they hear the news, and whose lives will probably be ruined by the event. It also has no bearing on whether what the police did was right or wrong. It's simply an emotional smokescreen to keep people from looking at the story objectively, which even when you do the cops were wrong. Frankly I think it takes credibility away from the writer's cause.

If an officer(or in this case 5 officers) shoot a total of 50 bullets to ensure that the suspect doesn't return fire I really don't think that is dumb. I would say that is protecting themselves.

Posted by armyof1

BTW, it was three (3) officers.

I think that what happened was not so terrible. This fella would have fathered, expression only...he wouldn't really be a father, a kid with this woman and the kid would have grown up fatherless and full of hate directed at the white man. Then after disrupting all of the other students in school he would head to the corner where he'd sling dope and bullets. He'd miss and paralyze some 8 year old girl two blocks away and eventually kill one of your family members. I think the NYPD nipped this one in the bud.

Good Show!

Good Show!


Posted by yougothurt


When did they install computers in the mental ward? Now all the loonies and retards will have access to the web. Man, you need to seek professional help!

Nice rebuttle live_or_die... You are definitely a product of the morons out there in society...

If you ran anything in this country there would be a lot more dead cops. SAD and pathetic. You cop haters and MMQBs really need to get out of your mommas basements and enter the real world...

these cops were justified, apparently the evidence proved that. But I guess thats not good enough for you DOUCHETARDS...

Your ending is priceless though... Grow up kid...

Geezer, you uninformed bag of mid western shit

When was the last time that you crawled out from under your rock into the real world?

Do you have any clue what is going on in our cities?

I believe you to be the one who is living in a mental ward. That would explain your complete lack of knowledge of life on the streets of our cities.

Don't comment on something because you have been told it's offensive. Walk outside and see it for yourself.

Geezer, i have to agree, yougothurt is really stretching on this one...

Yougothurt is a new one on me. But I think he will fit right in with the vicious uglies who use this forum to spew their venom at "whimps," pussies and traitors who might have less than a kind word for waterboarding, invading countries, executing prisoners, cop-dom in general and George Bush in particular. Well-cum to drudgeland, Hurt; happy hour at Chairborn's at 5 p.m. herm

Burn that mutha fucka down!!!!

"these cops were justified, apparently the evidence proved that."

The evidence was insufficient to provide a conviction of a crime, it in no way proves the shooting was justified.

"ARMYOF1"...Listen dickhead you made your first post on this subject at 11am an your latest one at 4pm. Find something to do beside make comments out of your asshole, you were wrong at 11am and you are wrong now. These COPS are Murderers and I just hope that they don't meet the same fate, even though they do deserve it!!!

Rage in Broad Daylight

Let's meet at noon
On the Brooklyn Bridge
And rant and rave
About what they did

All afternoon
Under clear blue skies
We'll screech and shout
About "collusion and lies"

Cause what dangers lurk
Uptown at four
Can't be much different
Than our teak front door

And fifty bullets
Seems like a ton
From where I'm standing
Here in the sun

The Mayor stands to judge
What's wrong and what's right
They'll interview and analyze
Till they get it right

Arraign, indict and prosecute
Them cop bastards belong in jail!
With The Reverend behinds us
How could we fail?

So let's rant and rave
Here in the light
bout what those men in blue do
In the ominous night

I'm sure it's scary
When all is dark
And all you've got are your wits
To face a dangerous lark

Well, it's getting cold
And we spoke out a bunch
My car's on the corner
Let's go get some brunch

Don't comment on something because you have been told it's offensive. Walk outside and see it for yourself.

Posted by yougothurt

You (gothurt)are just another fucking idiot who can't even string together two sentences that make sense.(go back and read, if you can, your original post) It is ignorance on your scale that is the problem and the fact that you are probably "slinging dope and bullets" (?) right now. Please click on Start, click on Shut down and do us all a favor!

"Nice rebuttle live_or_die..."

Thank you.

"You are definitely a product of the morons out there in society..."

Those morons "out there?" You're a tool.

"If you ran anything in this country there would be a lot more dead cops."

Because I would advise them to confirm threats before blowing people away? They're already instructed to do that, dip shit, these cops didn't.

"SAD and pathetic. You cop haters and MMQBs really need to get out of your mommas basements and enter the real world..."

I don't hate cops in general. I only hate cops that feel the need to kill someone because they kinda looked like they mighta had a sort of a weapon.

"these cops were justified, apparently the evidence proved that. But I guess thats not good enough for you"

A game of he-said-no-he-said is evidence enough to justify the killing of an innocent, unarmed civilian?

And then you go on to retort yourself, like an idiot.

"DOUCHETARDS..."

Your ending is priceless though... Grow up kid..."

Posted by armyof1

I am sorry that we are all wasting our time...
We are talking about black people.
The most ungrateful race in this country.
What kind of opportunity do you think wwould be afforded in Sierra Leone, Benin, The Gambia, Senegal, Ghana, and the like?
Had those people not been sold out by their own "leaders" into slavery their future generations would never have the chance to sit on their overweight chicken eating, koolaid drinking, newport smoking asses while watching oprah on their flatscreens.

I'm a letter carrier in baltimore city.
Don't tell me you have seen anything.
Do you wear a B.P. vest to work?

"We are talking about black people. The most ungrateful race in this country."

Do I want to get into it with a Baltimore letter carrier? Okay. Grateful for WHAT? Slavery? Lynchings? Voter disenfranchisement? Massa Branch Rickey deciding that a Cullud Boy could win Brooklyn a pennant.

"What kind of opportunity in Sierra Leone, Benin, The Gambia, Senegal, Ghana, and the like?"

Well, Got ... if not for white colonialists (I realize slave hunters were Arabs) they'd live in oh-so-primitive tribal splendor. Probably happier.

Do you REALLY wear a BP vest on your route? herm

If it were a crime for a citizen, it is a crime for law enforcement.
Pre-emption is illegal under the constitution.

Those cops are cowards and pussies. So are the vast majority of public servants. Over paid, under worked cowards.

So much for liberty, I knew her well.

Murder is what this was, an for the police spokesman to say that they are no winners or losers in this case is CRAP.

Celisary, considering this was a case of a cop almost being run over by a car before he killed the guy, it would never, in any court, be tried as murder. The charge was manslaughter and the judge said that the prosecution witnesses and their overall case did not produce enough, if any, proof that the cops acted wrongly.

I relaize that any time we hear 50 or 80 bullets fired it gets some people all riled up, but you can fire 31 bullets awfully damn fast. If someone was trying to run me over and they had been talking about 'getting their gat', I would empty my gun until the car stopped.

Every time an officer puts on the gun and the badge, he is a target. Especially if they are assigned to neighborhoods where the majority of the population they are duty-bound to protect and serve consider them an occupying force. It goes with the job.

I'm going to part company with the pre-supposed liberal cliches and side with the judge. The deceased and his posse refused to comply when the officers identified themselves. They made statements intimating that a firearm was present. They attempted to evade a lawful arrest by first aggressively backing their car at one of the approaching officers, then by trying to ram a police van out of their path in an attempt to flee the scene of what was, by that point, a felony. Drunk people are prone to making really stupid decisions.

50 rounds is a tad excessive, though, given that there was no firearm recovered as probable cause. Doesn't NYPD require their officers to pass minimum range requirements? If he couldn't get the job done with one clip, then I submit that the officer that expended nearly three clips into that car is better suited to be the resident Observe & Report donut gobbler down at the mall. But my opinion aside, I wasn't there--and neither were any of you.

I noticed that the article was somewhat vague about which officer admits firing the first, and tragically causential, shot. It doesn't take a Houdini to figure out why the incident unfolded the way it did. Somebody pulled their weapon at the point where the car started battering the police van. The weapon discharged accidently, at which point the other officers had no choice but to instinctively believe a gun was present in the suspect car and "returned" fire. My money's on the guy that only expended four rounds.

When a cop tells you to stop, stop. Real simple rule, and real simple way to avoid tragedy.

If you feel you're being mistreated.. get a lawyer and sue them, but don't make threatening moves or moves that could be interpreted by a scared cop as threatening.

There is no racial component to this at all.. the cops (including black cops) felt threatened. None of the race baiters on this board were there, and there's no reason to doubt what the cops said.

The court ruling was proper.

The officer overheard one of them say GO GET MY GUN

50 rounds is a tad excessive

The weapon discharged accidently

"there's no reason to doubt what the cops said.

Posted by nmg_no at 2008-04-25 05:23 PM"

Yeah, there is dumbshit. The innocent victims who managed to survive the 50 bullet onslaught disagree with the cops' account.

There is no racial component to this at all.. the cops (including black cops) felt threatened. None of the race baiters on this board were there, and there's no reason to doubt what the cops said...

Posted by nmg_no

I didn't see any race baiting except for good 'ole "yougotretard". These were three drunken bastards coming out of a stripclub where they had started a fuss-up. Outside they encountered three plain-clothed police officers and one idiot decided to ram the van that had come as back-up. I might even give in to the officers believing that they were in danger and firing some shots but 50+, especially by one officer who had to re-load twice and later said he didn't even remember firing at all, sounds fishy. My guess is that everyone in this little escapade was drunk, including the officers and they, in the interest of fairness and in light of the excessive rounds fired, should have been given breathlizer test at the scene.

I can see that comprehension has not improved in my absence. Here...have a cookie.

Been outside and off-line all day, and have just now read the article and seen the news reports. Al Sharpton's involved? At least I know which side in this argument not to take...

This case, again, and again proves Liberals and most democrats have no common sense, and just purely think with their emotions.

The dude tried to run over a Police officer that was laying over the hood.

Then, after the cop flew off, he tried to run him over AGAIN.

If that doesn't warrant 100 bullets in the head, nothing does.

Dumb liberals, damn, no common sense.

You can't fucking talk shit to cops, then try to run them over.

What the fuck is this world coming to? Liberals are making it a big deal it was his wedding, blah blah fucking blah.

So if its my Wedding day or whatever, I can tell the cops they are dead, and then actually try and run them over?

What should I expect? Flowers?

Stupid liberals.

Kuma

Lots of stupid things on the old DR, but nothing as stupid as a rigid rightie mumbling about "stupid liberals." I gotta think that this is the best the troglodytes can come up with. herm

"Every time an officer puts on the gun and the badge, he is a target. Especially if they are assigned to neighborhoods where the majority of the population they are duty-bound to protect and serve consider them an occupying force. It goes with the job."

Oh please stop the romanticism. It's a job with a pension that allows assholes to walk with a swagger. Although there are decent cops there are so many others who are assholes. It's their job to protect and serve EVERYBODY. These shitheads killed a guy. Then made up stories about how they "suspected" he was going for a gun. He was hit by a car? It was a glancing blow. I wonder if there was any damage to the car ormarks on the officer? According to the reports there were neither. The scumbag just made the story up. That's right my little retarded friends who are cheering for the police. The police lie just as much as criminal to save their asses.

Another intelligent decision from the city that voted in Hillary Clinton as their Senator! I guess the judge in his fine,cauculating wisdom decided to leave the final outcome of this reckless tragedy to vigilante justice?

leave the final outcome of this reckless tragedy to vigilante justice?



The federal government?

"EVERLONG"....These cops were in the club dressed in civilian clothes, were they drinking?? Why were they not tested for ALCOHOL, THEY WERE NOT. The Police Administration even said today that there was things done unprofessionally an that part would be looked at in another forum.

Every police officer since the begining of time has said "I saw a gun or at taught they had a gun", what crap so these officers said they identified themselves as COPS, what would you think they would say.

I am old enough to have heard this story to many times to remember, time an time again these rogue cops, get away with Murder, I for one just don't understand why BLACK AMERICA PUTS UP WITH THIS shit!!!

This Country needs another Martin Luther King, get themselves back in the streets, black Americas need to know that when they go to Court they will get Justice this is just not happening. The Defense attorneys for these cops had this victory in there hands when they got the case heard by a lone Judge.

A total DISGRACE!!!

Have any of you scumbag liberals ever served on the police force? Didn't think so.

The thin blue line is a myth.

Thank you for sharing that with us on your very first post. From a scumbag liberal to a douchebag con, wilkommen, bienvenue, welcome!

This site is stupid. I'm going back to Powerline.

Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya. Hasta la bye-bye.

LMAO!

'This site is stupid. I'm going back to Powerline."

Fuckoff you dumb uneducated redneck bitch. Hope you get tased by your local neighborhood gangbanger (cop)

smart move not to take a jury of your peers in this
case; judges need police cooperation to keep their
chambers running smoothly

smart move not to take a jury of your peers in this
case; judges need police cooperation to keep their
chambers running smoothly

This site is stupid. I'm going back to Powerline.

ROFL!

This should be posted right under the Drudge headline. How hilarious! If this site had signatures this would be going in it right now!

HAHAHA

The sad thing is, I'm not surprised.
After Amado Diallo, how can you be?
Police are untouchable in NYC.
It only got worse after 9/11.
Now we are terrorized by the cops
driving around in 50 car lines,
sirens wailing for no reason.
"A show of force"
I think they call it.

The answers might be
in putting the cops back in the community.
Returning them to the beat.
Getting them off their asses
and on the street.

Tragedy is an overused term
but here it applies.
Hard nosed cops, wanna be hard nosed kids,
don't play well together.
The real thugs always win,
and get away with it.

"Al Sharpton's involved? At least I know which side in this argument not to take..."

Another knee jerk. Ho, even a stopped clock is right twice a day, herm

"Dumb liberals, damn, no common sense. You can't fucking talk shit to cops, then try to run them over."

More light into dark corners from the Far Right. herm

"So, all these people who weren't there and weren't on the jury are gonna say they know better what happened? Christ, why don't we just as AlGore to decide the matter?"

Because, JonRyker, we don't need Mr. Gore, seeing as how we have YOU to dispense your "wisdom" on the blogosphere.

One can only hope that Charles Bronson was still alive so that VIGALANTY Justice could take hold, these fucking PIGS should reach the same fate as MR. BELL, maybe not so may bullets this time!!!