Jimma is inappropriate and a traitor. I don't recall the election by the American voters that made him our representative in world politics. He fucked that up enough during the mistake called his presidency. He's full of himself and I pray there is not a cent of taxpayers' money supporting this trip or his security.

Peanut brain has never met a terrorist he didn't like. Remember when Iran wasn't run by a terrorist? It was run by a guy that wore a suit, and let women go to school. But Peanut Brain undermined him, and we've had Iran to deal with ever since. Remember the Panama canal? Peanut brain gave it away. Remember the draft dodgers who could never come back to america? Peanut brain let them all come back. Remember Peanut brain's solution to the gas prices? He made it illegal to charge too much for gas. Of course there was no gas, but at least we didn't have to pay a lot for it. It's hard to imagine a man can be as stupid as he acts, I suspect he really hates America. I'd like to see him arrested and tried for treason, and shot.

Geez Joe--"and shot"!

He meets with terrorists that kill children every day and put a friggin wreath on the grave of Yasser Arafat.

That's like putting a wreath on Hilter.

What a complete moron.

Murphy

Carter is an ASSHAT!

Carter is a moral idiot.

Hamas (according to their own charter) wants to
destroy Isreal.

Jimmy - where do you begin negotiations?

Hamas are nazis with head scarves. That is what
they are all about. THEIR SOLE EXISTANCE is to
facilitate the destruction of Isreal.

Hamas does not want peace. They intentionally
target civillians. What does Jimmy not understand?

Dude is such a fuckin' tool.

DB,

as far as killing, imprisoning and torturing innocents is concerned the US is #1, Israel #2 (regionally). All Arab terrorists, armies and secret service can't hold a candle to Israel's action. The bumper sticker "Protected by the Egyptian Army" is funny for a good reason.

as far as killing, imprisoning and torturing innocents is concerned the US is #1, Israel #2 (regionally). All Arab terrorists, armies and secret service can't hold a candle to Israel's action. The bumper sticker "Protected by the Egyptian Army" is funny for a good reason.

Posted by nutcase

China called and is demanding an apology.

NutCase, good name you picked for yourself. The United States doesn't randomly take prisoners and cut their heads off. We don't fly planes into buildings, but I guess you knew that. You're just a mindless america basher anti-semite.

Mato, there you go and ruin a perfectly good rant by nutcase - he doesn't have any facts to back up his asinine assumptions, he just likes spouting "Americs and Israel baaad".

cawtuh said, "howdy."

so hooray for speech therapy.

so maybe carter met with him just because he is bitter over the economy and he hates people of color or maybe he hates jews since he is making nice with this guy who would just love to eradicate israel off the face of the earth.
he should have his passport revoked. we can do that , cant we?

and nut.......you just cant bring yourself to even mention that israel gets several rocket attacks EVERY SINGLE DAY from these people......why does the left NEVER EVER mention that? not ever......

BLT and his pants pissing buds are just mad that Carter is the only president since Nixon that didn't have his lips surgically attached to Israel's asshole as their first official act after getting their party's nomination. (Nixon's bitch Kissinger stood in for him instead.)

If for no reason other than that, President Carter should be remembered as the best president in the last half of the 20th century.

To be honest I'm still up in the air on the whole Palestine/Israel thing. To me it looks more like a war thats modern version is more seated in ingrained hatreds then any sort of land dispute.

The atrocities committed on both sides are pretty well documented, and remembered quite well on both sides of the wall. It leads to nothing more then a jumping point for future atrocities.

If I remember correctly the "daily rocket attacks" are focused on one southern portion of Israel that was "settled" by Israeli pioneers that displaced an already established palestinian community.

The Israeli use of pioneer communities to establish "buffer zones" was an interesting tid-bit I recently learned about. It also tends to stick in the craw of the palestinians.

Theres a whole lot of blame to go around. The deeper I dig into Mid-east politics the crazier it all becomes. It's still such a tribal region of the world, with such a decentralized religion and power structure it really is hard for westerners to grasp.

President Carter should be remembered as the best president in the last half of the 20th century.

Posted by axe at 2008-04-16 12:43 AM | Reply | Fl


oh oh ha ha ha ha.......oh stop it...youre killing me. I cant stop laughing.
axe.....let me ask you this one question andbe honest with me....how old are you?

gust....here is the way I see it.
we have to be israel's ally because without us they will be overrun and destroyed and many killed and we cant let that happen for humane reasons and because we need them in that region and along with iraq as a secure and viable ally in the war on terror, it will go a long way to peace in the region.
and the only way there will be peace is if countries there do just two things.

1)ackowledge israel's right to exist and pledge to live in peace
2) STOP THE ATTACKS.

if the bastards do the two things I mention here and israel continues to battle and fight..then I will be one of its loudest critics here and demand that we stop giving aid to them.

but look at what has happened to the ground israel gave up a year or two ago and you will see squaler and poverty where there was building and commerce.

Israel has no moral or legal right to exist!

The Palestinians were forced off their indigenous lands because...Germany's Hitler launched a genocide against the Jews? Well then let Germany provide the Jews with a homeland not the Palestinians!
The Vietnam War was an unwinnable fiasco that the USA should never have become involved in in the first place.Also Nixon and Kissinger sabotaged the Paris Peace Talks of 1970 which added another 5 expensive,bloody and insane years to this war - of course it was a $Billion Dollar Gravy Train for Corporate America just like Bush's Iraq War is for them today!
The American draft dodgers were smart enough to appreciate the insanity of the Vietnam War and they refused to become a part of it plus they and millions of other anti-war protesting Americans eventually brought that fiasco to an end!

Of course the Vietnam War hasn't ended for generations of people in Vietnam,Laos and Cambodia who are still being killed by American landmines and struggling with birth defects and diseases caused by the US Military's Agent Orange and other biological weapons etc.

JIMMY has brain tumor...I think...

Those who believe Carter was a great President must not have been alive or were too young to remember the time when he was in office. Remember, he invented the misery index to bash Ford's economy. How ironic that the index grew substantially during his Presidency. Fittingly, he was bashed over the head with it by his opponents during the next election cycle. His domestic policy was bad, and his foreign policy was even worse. What a nightmare. If he was such a great President, then why was he defeated by a landslide in the next election?

"The United States doesn't randomly take prisoners and cut their heads off. We don't fly planes into buildings,"

Nah the US simply randomly imprisons people and torture them. Destroys their lives and drive them into insanity. Let's not forget all the "collateral damage" caused killing women and children when taking out suspected terrorist hiding places. Me personally I'd take the beheading.

And why waste a perfectly good plane when you can bomb buildings? The Chinese really loved the destruction of their embassy in Serbia.

Maybe we could talk Carter into meeting with a GROUP of opponents and starting a peace movement with EVERYBODY. Think about it...we could get him to schedule Chavez, Bin Laden, Nasrallah, Ahmadinejad, and a host of others to negotiate all at one time. THEN, if we can get Carter fitted with a suicide bomber vest......

"Me personally I'd take the beheading."

Oh, goody....I'd be happy to give you one. How about this Saturday at noon?

"Those who believe Carter was a great President must not have been alive or were too young to remember the time when he was in office."

Well, you figure...they've only had TWO presidents in the last forty years and they are kinda pissed at Bill Clinton these days so who do they have left to brag on? Most of them here were probably shittin' yellow or weren't even born when he was in office.

listen you guys can argue all you want if carter sux or not

i don't care
is israel the bad guy or is palestine
thats not going to end but at least make your points make sense

"The United States doesn't randomly take prisoners and cut their heads off. We don't fly planes into buildings," - no we use bunker buster bombs and laser guided missles. of course had we not have had the money to develep the technology we would just napalm them like vietnam. much much better then that... and most of the prisoners at gitmo were just random prisoners at the start of the war.

and you are not allowed to be anti carter if you were pro bush in 2000 AND 2004 and if your still probush, then you can't say shit about anything
98% of historians agree... worst president ever.

Who the hell does this guy think he is?

He doesn't represent me or my family.

His time expired in 1980.

That's right, 28 years ago.

Incarcerate this pos and throw away the key.

"and you are not allowed to be anti carter if you were pro bush in 2000 AND 2004"

I wasn't "pro Bush" in 2000 and 2004, I was just anti Gore and anti Kerry. Does that allow me to be anti Carter?

jest.
yes
:)

unless you voted for bush
because thats voting a guaranteed loser for america.

"Who the hell does this guy think he is?

He doesn't represent me or my family.

His time expired in 1980.

That's right, 28 years ago.

Incarcerate this pos and throw away the key."



let me see

"who the hell does bush think he is?

he doens't represent me or my family.

his time expired when his dad left office.

incarerate this pos for war crimes and throw away the key."

torture meetings in the white house.

No one said they did. Typical fascist...deplores the fact that people are allowed to express themselves publicly when they don't agree with him.

Why are some of you just so stupid when all the information is readily available

Todays cretin is some jerk named "ANTICADILLAC" who posts

"Israel has no moral or legal right to exist!

The Palestinians were forced off their indigenous lands because...Germany's Hitler launched a genocide against the Jews? Well then let Germany provide the Jews with a homeland not the Palestinians!"

Hmmm and yet half of Israel consists of those Jews who were forced off their land by the Arabs even though they had been living in those Arab countries centuries longer then the Arabs ...

And speaking of forcing people off their land. I wonder how our poster ANTICADILLAC reconciles the Jewish majority citis of Jerusalem or Hebron at the turn of the last century - Hebron being a particularly interesting situation since its Jewish majority was easily dealt with by Arabs - they were massacred while the remaining Jews driven out.

Google it CADILLAC and learn something instead of opening your mouth and embarrassing yourself.

Oh and finally about Hitler, Nazis and your claim that your poor misunderstood Arabs living in Turkish Palestine shouldn't be victimized by those nasty Nazis and what they did to the Jews because after all according to you, the Arabs had nothing to do with it right?

I suppose your source forgot to explain a certain Palestinian leader the Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini who spent the war years in Berlin with his friend Adolf Hitler helping him organize a Muslim SS Division and some of the SS Mountain Divisions.

According to documentation from the Nuremberg and Eichmann trials, the Nazi Germany SS helped finance al-Husseini's efforts in the 1936-39 revolt in Palestine. Adolf Eichmann actually visited Palestine and met with al-Husseini at that time and subsequently maintained regular contact with him later in Berlin.

"At the Nuremberg Trials, Eichmann's deputy Dieter Wisliceny (subsequently executed as a war criminal) testified:

* The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan. ... He was one of Eichmann's best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard him say, accompanied by Eichmann, he had visited incognito the gas chamber of Auschwitz."


Who would have thunk it eh CADILLAC?

Clown ....

Israel has no moral or legal right to exist!

Sadly I agree with this statement.

I see GZ still has not come up with a argument to suggest they do have the moral and legal right to exist.

Just a bunch of one sided miss informational political hackery of israels greatness.

Interesting that Israel supporters constantly look at their right of existance but continue to deny those very people who owned the land before it was taken a right to exist.

Israel has no moral or legal right to exist!

Sadly I agree with this statement.

the right to exist for israel is that it exists currently, and will not leave

the right to exist for palestine is that they are currently there and will not leave

the answer is not denying eithers right to exist, whether you agree or not

they are both there and not budging

if peace is going to exist in the area, at some point, hamas has to be included... and that means their charter of no israel has to be destroyed.

that will only happen from diplomacy or extermination.

you can't exterminate hamas without exterminating the entire palestinian people.

if you plan on doing it, i'm not on your side, and i'm sure gz isn't on your side either, extermination as a charter from either side is not an option to the civilized people.

thus only diplomacy is the answer

hate hamas all you want, they have to be included, so to change their charter and plot a course toward peace.. they were voted by the palestinian people, so to some degree they have a power over them

if jimmy carter can achieve the right goals of a hamas accepted two state solution, that would be great... but calling him a traitor when he's fighting for peace is just emotions and not clear thinking

Yes JJ I should probably clarify.

The land was given to the jewish people to make the state of Israel when the very people who lived on the land was not given a choice as to the gift.

Barbaric by any standard of valid thought, morally or legally.

Israel was instructed to reimburse those people and have yet to show such honor.

Now do I think israel should exist, of course, but do think original requirements should be pushed to the extreme of they should lose the country.

Another kneejerk bullshit spewing Leftie with not a historical fact in his brain ..

OK MW .. please tell us where "those very people who owned the land before it was taken " according to you and their narrative came to "own" this land

If anyone doesn't have a moral right to exist, its all those fake countries created by Britain and France after WW 1 - but you do recognize them don't you and yet the Jewish state you somehow find immoral and illegal - So your reality begin where YOU decide it begins? Frankly I just think you're so stupid you don't realize many of those countries have no historical basis other then a wave of a Brit or French hand

And no legal right?
You just make it up as you go along right

""The San Remo Conference decided on April 24, 1920 to assign the Mandate [for Palestine] under the League of Nations to Britain. The terms of the Mandate were also discussed with the United States which was not a member of the League. An agreed text was confirmed by the Council of the League of Nations on July 24, 1922, and it came into operation in September 1923."

The Council of the League of Nations:

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them; and

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish ommunities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country ....

I'll let you do a bit of work and look up the rest if you know how to read ..

It was called the San Remo Convention and it took place in the early 1920's ...

As for moral ?

Yeah too bad the Jews survived all the crap people like you heaped on them (and apparently are still not satisfied).

It certainly would have been much easier had they all been murdered right?

GZ,

Did the people who owned the land have a say in the outcome of forfeiture or was it done by some other government entity?

By any measure of legality and moral grounds this would not be ignored.

All your pandering political bull shit doesn't weigh in as to the actual fact of what went down.

gz

lets look to the future
and not the past

and in the future
both states need to exist

there is no way around that

peace will NEVER happen
unless there is a free Israel
and a free Palestine

how can we move toward the future and toward long lasting peace?

"Israel was instructed to reimburse those people and have yet to show such honor."

HUH ???

What kind of nonsensical bullshit is this?

The Arabs were offered one side of the partitioned land in '47 - 48 and rejected it in favor of war and the possibility of exterminating the Jews and they lost and then they did it again and again and lost.

And for those Arabs living on the Jewish side of the Green line ...

"From the "The Declaration Of The
Establishment Of The State Of Israel" May 14, 1948

"WE APPEAL -- in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months -- to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions."

And what DID they choose?
War
And they LOST but it seems we have some here who seem to think the loser gets a "do over" - call me crazy but I can't think of where those who declare war and lose get to have everyone forget it and start again.

"The Arabs were offered one side of the partitioned land in '47 - 48 "

I guess this imbecile would jump at an offer that gave the US less than half its current land area....

$$,


The land was given to the jewish people to make the state of Israel when the very people who lived on the land was not given a choice as to the gift.


OK.



Barbaric by any standard of valid thought, morally or legally.


Understood, but it's a common theme throughout man's history. Fact is, the entire globe ain't going to revert back to old boundaries and even if it was agreed upon to do so, how far back in history do we go? Which of the myriads of maps is 'fair'?


You seem to grasp this point with your next comment:

Now do I think israel should exist, of course, but do think original requirements should be pushed to the extreme of they should lose the country.


Well, you've succeeded in completing a circular argument - it has no end.

Your point needs further clarification.

Carter is a fucking tool.

"Hmmm and yet half of Israel consists of those Jews who were forced off their land by the Arabs even though they had been living in those Arab countries centuries longer then the Arabs"

Jews lived in those countries for centuries, Arabs became hostile only after the Jews began to drive them out of Palestine....

"And what DID they choose?
War
And they LOST "

It ain't over till its over.

That the problem with granting the victor the spoils of war....it's like holding out a carrot to the losers.

JJ,

Yes, israel is a circular argument, it has no end.

Taking the whole situation at face value israel has no moral or legal justification for their position.

As for history, don't know of many countries that have gained statehood by being given land by other nations in our modern era.

Shit, germany wasn't even given to other people when they were defeated but palestinians had to give up their land and they didn't do a damn thing other than be occupied by a foreign nation.

A difficult question...but not the most pressing given that the Israelis continue to seize Arab land as we speak.

hosha na Moshiach.

"and I will make jerusalem a burdensome stone for all who concern themselves with jerusalem..."

What I see Kliff is more of an emphasis on removing the historical rationale for Israel by revising history as can be seen by some of the posts I've responded to right here ... the usual stuff about how the Palestinians shouldn't be victimized because of european Jews or European guilt because of the Holocaust - all of that is complete bullshit.
Why doesn't Moneywar here even know about the million Jews thrown out of Arab countries, deprived of their property and land ? I say because it speaks to the land transfer that's happened to so many populations over the years - India and Pakistan for instance ... well, about a million Jews were displaced and absorbed by Israel, so why haven't the Arabs who chose to run away from Israel had the same deal from any one or few of the 22 Arab countries they could live in? There's only 1 Jewish state representing a fraction of the land the Arabs inhabit and yet that's too much for them?

People like MW need to understand or at least read what Arafat the Egyptian described as their strategy of slowly taking pieces of the Jewish State. You can read it or hear it from the PLO Ambassador to Lebanon and yet so many just don't want to hear it. Jimmy Carter obviously doesn't want to hear it.

There are legal grounds and moral grounds for the state of Israel to exist, but as long as the Arabs continue to use selective history to justify their mythical characterization of themselves, we're going to get nowhere.

Where is this "Palestinian" people pre 1960 who weren't then the Jews ? There were none. Its absurd and a myth.
You lived in the region for 36 months. and the UN called you a "refugee" .. look it up. That was the criteria for refugee status.

And yet MW and his ilk would have you believe there was some long historical connection to this land by those Arabs living there and none with Jews living there for thousands of years longer ...

We have this sort of discussion over at MEPEACE.org with both Arabs and Jews, many living there.
Come over and see ...

As for history, don't know of many countries that have gained statehood by being given land by other nations in our modern era.


Your point is a distinction without a difference.


Look at the annexation of Hawaii. It was a coup that was staged by the US and the Hawaiin Islands later became states of the US. This is but one of countless examples of geographical territories changing governorship.


Yes, that Israel was given (back) its land via a third party is a bit unique, however had they waged war themselves and conquered the land for themselves, the net outcome would have been the same.

Furthermore, the distinction you raise is further clouded when 3rd party entities "assist" second parties in the acquisition of land.

"A difficult question...but not the most pressing given that the Israelis continue to seize Arab land as we speak."

Perhaps what you mean is "seize back" land these Arab's took by force don't you?

Its fascinating how arbitrary the beginning of history is for so many here.

For TOM W ...

Judaism predates Islam by almost 2,000 years. Over a million Jewish homes, property, wealth, land was seized by Arabs after 1948 ... perhaps you believe these Jews can return to their countries of Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, and many more and have their property returned?

yeah I didn't think so ...

Todays cretin is some jerk named "ANTICADILLAC"
GZLIVES
?????????????????????????????? ????
That's the pot calling the kettle black.

The sad fact that Americans still care about this Middle Eastern tribal warfare $hit is pathetic,
and it will be the USA's undoing.

The USA should give BOTH sides (Israelis/Palestinians) the finger, and tell them BOTH to go screw themselves.

Cut off aid to both sides...period.

Call Ron Paul a wacko all you want, but he's 110% correct on this issue of non-interventionism, as this bull$hit in the Middle East is a glaring example of the "good" interventionism does for a nations economy and the safety of the citizens.

God forbid the USA doesn't "protect" Israel, and keep sending BILLIONS of USA dollars to a country that HAS:
1. A Nuclear Arsenal
2. A highly skilled Air Force
3. World renown technologically advanced weaponry

The USA sends Israel BILLIONS in USA money, and for what?
They certainly don't need it against the rock throwing Arabs.

I'm not taking sides. I refuse to side with either of these ungrateful peoples.
Especially when both sides are to blame.

If we take the leash off of Israel, they could take care of Hamas, Iran and if we are lucky old peanut brain could get caught in the crossfire.

And my point about the new tendency for the Arab (& Iranian) PR machines to reinvent history and then disseminate it especially to their tool lapdogs the Left in order to undermine any rationale for Israel's existence can be seen everyday in their press ...

From todays AP wire

"Though Iran has condemned the al-Qaida attacks on New York and Washington in the past, this was the third time in a week Ahmadinejad questioned the death toll, who was behind the attacks and how it happened.

"Four or five years ago, a suspicious event occurred in New York. A building collapsed and they said that 3,000 people had been killed but never published their names," Ahmadinejad told Iranians in the holy city of Qom.

"Under this pretext, they (the US) attacked Afghanistan and Iraq and since then a million people have been killed only in Iraq," said Ahmadinejad in the speech broadcast live on state-run television.

On the last anniversary of the attacks, the names of 2,750 victims killed in New York were read aloud at a memorial ceremony there."


Needless to say, this sort of garbage dovetails into the Bani types who spew the crap about the Jews being behind the attacks. Because after all, the Arabs and Islamists can never be held responsible for anything. Its always someone else especially Israel or the Jews which feeds the historic anti Semitism that so many have albeit some of it even benign nevertheless, its not very difficult for many to jump immediately to blame the Jews for everything.

Another poster needs some factual info - BOBOTTO posts

"God forbid the USA doesn't "protect" Israel and keep sending BILLIONS of USA dollars to a country that HAS:
1. A Nuclear Arsenal
2. A highly skilled Air Force
3. World renown technologically advanced weaponry


The US HARDLY PROTECTS Israel ... what a crock.
According to Colin Powell's Chief of Staff Wilkenson, who came to Wash DC to warn the US about invading Iraq again and again and again ... hmmmm try Israel. Google it and read it for yourself.

They described exactly what would happen if the US invaded ...

But the Leftie/Islamist press buries that info but you can Google it.
But you won't ...

Israel does more to protect the US from itself then the other way around. The US has done more damage to Israel in these past few years then its done to itself but I know you haven't noticed that. Things are particularly bad over there at the moment because of endless pandering of Israel to the US's insistence that it give in on this or that regarding issues like Israeli security on the West Bank or the division of Israel's capitol in Jerusalem. And all of this is perceived by its adversaries as weakness so they step up their terror attacks. So you see Bob, its exactly the opposite of what you assert.

As for the rest of your silly notions ..

In exchange for low interest loan grants to Israel - all repaid by the way - all weapons sold to Israel must be made in the US.
These are made by US workers in US plants like Raytheon, Lockheed etc.

And more importantly, why do you think Israel does not sell more of those high tech weapons you admit it creates and manufactures? Because you probably believe as long as your hard earned tax payer money is sent no strings attached to these Jews, why should they bother ? That's what the Left/Islamists want you to think and I have to admit, that's what it sounds like you're saying but look a little further BOB ...

Because the US insisted it not sell on the open market items like its Lavi Jet fighter which China wanted to buy or its Arrow anti missile system and in return provides what Israel could essentially create itself as well as generate a large amount of income and Israeli jobs.

And so the US grants low interest loans and partners with Israel on various weapons projects like the Arrow ...

Things like this or so obvious it begs the question why so many instead of looking closer at the soundbites, simply go directly to ascribing blame to the Jews of course ...

AT LAST ... a poster FWTHOM, who DOES know what he's talking about

"If we take the leash off of Israel, they could take care of Hamas, Iran and if we are lucky old peanut brain could get caught in the crossfire."

Thank you FWTHOM for restoring my hope that a few here actually do read.

Ah, the perfidious left, the treacherous creatures who would betray their own country, and ally themselves with its declared enemies.

Jimmy Carter has consorted with and eoncouraged all sorts of foes of America, ranging from the communists in Cuba, to the Libyan dictator Khadaffi, to the Venezuelan Chavez. Jimmy had agreed to oversee the election, but since he had a personal engagement, a party to attend, he excused himself during the process and left the country, providing certification without oversight. Mr. Responsibility and Reliability.

It's ironic that with the left today composed of so many people willing to defame their own country and those who criticize it, that the left once embraced patriotism, and it was the right that was accused of being unpatriotic, supporting causes other than those which elevated the opinion of the United States of America.

For those of you not aware of this, here is a link, and also the first paragraph of the article reciting the history of patriotism.

"Judaism predates Islam by almost 2,000 years."

There are many long-lived fairy tales, Judaism, Christianity and Islam are only some of them. I demand that my chosen fairy tales be rewarded with large tracts of land.

"Over a million Jewish homes, property, wealth, land was seized by Arabs after 1948 ... perhaps you believe these Jews can return to their countries of Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, and many more and have their property returned?"

Not entirely accurate. Some Arab countries actually prohibited Jews from leaving out of fear they would go to Palestine and strenghten the Jewish state. It was only after US and Israel appeals that Jews were allowed to leave. Of course after they left...the story changed...

"
Where is this "Palestinian" people pre 1960 who weren't then the Jews ? There were none. Its absurd and a myth. "

Let me help you out. The British census early in the last century determined that Jews constituted barely 5% of the population of Palestine...earlier Ottoman statistics suggest is was even less during the middle of the 19th century..

Posted by BobOtto at 2008-04-16 11:02 AM

The USA should give BOTH sides (Israelis/Palestinians) the finger, and tell them BOTH to go screw themselves.

Cut off aid to both sides...period.

carter and clinton will go down as the worse presidents in history , once the truth is out , they were anti-American , anti-Constitution , and very much piles of shit with 2 eyes .

"Because you probably believe as long as your hard earned tax payer money is sent no strings attached to these Jews,"

Ahhhh, watch it there buddy.
Don't assume you know what I believe.

Actually I'll tell ya, so you won't have to:
This isn't about Jewish people.....this is about money, and military might, and a centuries long feud that will continue for centuries more, with the USA being in the middle of said feud, when it need not be involved at all.
We can find ways around oil, and terrorism.
We can find new energies, and we have nukes to deal with terrorists.

My view is ....... Americans need not side with either people, and let them fight it out, WITHOUT America's involvement.

Neither side gets the American vote, TOTALLY NEUTRAL (like the Swiss) would benefit the USA concerning this perpetually miserable fight.

"Judaism predates Islam by almost 2,000 years."

There are many long-lived fairy tales, Judaism, Christianity and Islam are only some of them. I demand that my chosen fairy tales be rewarded with large tracts of land.

Posted by Tom_W


Tom - what about Greece?

"The reproductive rate in Gaza is as I recall, the highest in the world, more than six children on the average per female. How the area can continue to support populations based on such a rate of increase, or how such irresponsible reproduction given the circumstances, can be accommodated, is something that Jimmy should address."

Posted by Johnson

That's the real threat to Israel's Jewish and democratic identity. Even Olmert says so.

MRFAIR - sorry but facts are indeed some pesky little thingies aren't they?

Fairy tale or not the Judaism fairy tale PREDATES the Muslim fairy tale by 1600 years.

And that all means, the Jews were there before Muslims existed. That's all .. sorry

President Carter should be remembered as the best president in the last half of the 20th century.

Is this meant to be funny? Because it's not.

First of all BOBOTTO .. its not centuries old at all.
Its 60 years old unlerss you're counting the years that Muslims have attempted to conquer and convert all non Muslims.

This particular battle between Israeli jew and Muslim Arab is 60 years old. Aren't Muslims always saying how well they lived with Jews before the Zionsist arrived - complete and utter bullshit of course, nevertheless, isn't that their story?

America can stay out of it but tell that to those who flew planes into the WTC or blew up Cobar Towers or attacked America and later used Israel as some excuse.

Another words my contention is and has always been, if you think this is about Israel then you're pretty stupid. This is about Islamists and an agenda of remaking the Caliphate. They will attempt to undermine western Europe and take back those places they once ruled like Spain and parts of Austria and then push on from there.

You see BOBOTTO, you believe that if Israel goes away, America will have no more problem with Islamists. You think its about oil and all those things that Islamists would like you to continue to believe.

Its got to do with Muslims versus non Muslims. It has to do with that in India with Hindus and Thailand with Buddhists but the Jews have always been fair game to attack when Europeans are concerned the Islamists will use that latent anti Semitism to distract what's actually going on. Just look at parts of Western Europe now as it becomes Islamic. Fertility rates and violence driving up emigration. Look at Rotterdam. Look at London ... watch and see. Israel is the front line of this.

You see BOBOTTO, Israel has been willing to co exist for the last 60 years. It's the other side who will find any conceivable excuse NOT to make peace. They can't. Its against their religion they say - the Kliffords of the world excluded of course - but here's some pesky facts again for those who continue to buy into the myth the Jews don't want to co exist.

MRFAIR - sorry but facts are indeed some pesky little thingies aren't they?

Fairy tale or not the Judaism fairy tale PREDATES the Muslim fairy tale by 1600 years.

And that all means, the Jews were there before Muslims existed. That's all .. sorry

Posted by GZlives


GZ - please not so defensive. I was trying to elicit the response that Greeks had some major fairy tales predating Christianity and Islam and, look! they did get their own "large tracts of land."

Also - Israel getting its own nation is not about setting up a land for the sake of a fairy tale. It was set up for the actual living people who happened to have that belief as their one common characteristic. Oh, and also the fact that they once lived there but were scattered by the Romans. So his "fairy tale" example doesn't seem to apply to the Jewish founding of Israel in 1948.

Founding a nation for a fairy tale would be like fighting for "Hansel & Gretel Candyland" or maybe "Snowhiteandthesevendwarfistan
."

I see GZLies has cut'n'pasted another thread to death. His little troll pal Johnson even showed up and threw a statistic about how much aid the average Gazan receives.

Question to the dynamic duo? How does that number compare to the $83,220 the average Israeli received LAST YEAR from the US Taxpayer? (total aid to Israel divided by Israel population, you do the math.)

"And that all means, the Jews were there before Muslims existed. That's all .. sorry"


Which is of course irrelevant...vague references to some group thousands of years ago are hardly grounds to throw out the present occupants.

again axe....I AXE you....( hey look I put in a little ghetto talk to axe..)
since you are in love with the carter presidency....HOW OLD ARE YOU?

AND......

Those who believe Carter was a great President must not have been alive or were too young to remember the time when he was in office. Remember, he invented the misery index to bash Ford's economy. How ironic that the index grew substantially during his Presidency. Fittingly, he was bashed over the head with it by his opponents during the next election cycle. His domestic policy was bad, and his foreign policy was even worse. What a nightmare. If he was such a great President, then why was he defeated by a landslide in the next election?

Posted by Republican4ever at 2008-04-16 07:28 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose) FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv e

right on bro..

maybe the worse thing is the placing of the wreath on yes sir IMafat's grave. ..we should send someone there to piss on it, not honor it.....and I volunteer.....well with a company or two of soldiers......

You see BOBOTTO, you believe that if Israel goes away, America will have no more problem with Islamists.

Once again....I said nothing about Israel going away in my last post.

I believe Israel has every right to exist, and you can quote me on that statement.
Let them stay.....it's simple.

Let me spell it out for you.....

L-E-T- I-S-R-A-E-L S-T-A-N-D- O-N I-T-S O-W-N
O-R F-A-L-L O-N I-T-S O-W-N.

No US aid.
No US support.

Neutral is where the US and it's citizens would be best served, and from the angle I believe you are coming from, (inferring that the USA is holding Israel back) then logically (in all fairness)....so would Israel.

and rush had a great slant on this today.
he reminded me that when nixon was buried the presidents were all there and saying all kinds of good things about him and both jimma and rosalynd had astonished looks on thier faces and I remember commenting on that at the time. she must have shoved him in the side and said.
jimmah, you got to stop all that house building and do something people will remember you for....has he ever.....the sumbitch should be arrested.

AND NOW CUE THE BLAST RUSH BULLSHIT BECAUSE YOU"VE GOT NOTHING ELSE

and sure bobo.lets do that and what you have done is sign the death warrant of millions of people, but you dont give a shit about them do you? only some antisemetic nonsense that you got from air america or the like.
and also more parts of the middle east infested with anti american islamic terrorists.....something near and dear to the heart of most liberals in the vein of castro and chavez... and now arafat.

zechariah 12:3:

"And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it."

carter is burdened for all the wrong reasons.

zechariah 2:8:

"For thus said the Lord of hosts, after [His] glory had sent me [His messenger] to the nations who plundered you (israel)--for he who touches you (israel) touches the apple or pupil of His eye"

carter, the anti-semite is all but physically poking HaShem in the eye.

does ANYBODY wonder why israel is so hated?

look no further than your bible.

I agree B.LoverII...He should be arrested for impersonating an American. His personal attempt to disrupt our political process and disrespect our duely elected president is treasonist and criminal. Fuck him and every dumbass that supports him.

I'm convinced now that Carter is every bit as narcissistic as Bill Clinton. Neither of them can stand to be out of the limelight too long. They should really learn a lesson in humility from Bush I and how he handles being an ex-president. He has NEVER forced himself upon America since leaving office like Carter and Clinton do, on almost a monthly basis.

I was about 10 or 11 when Carter was up against Ford and, obviously, Carter won. I can still recall, at that young age, very much disliking the guy. I can't explain it but somehow, even then, I knew he was a tool. Turns out I was right.

He was another of the long list of pricks the dem's finagle upon us. He was disasterous as prez and has broken the long held tradition of publicly criticizing a sitting prez...he's a shameless, self-absorbed SOB. Sorry...I lost myself there for a sec! The American voters saw through his inept ass and handed him the largest defeat in the history of American presidential elections. Take a hint, Jimma. You suck bitch!

You know it's funny. This Country is made up of 90% Christians and or people of faith. The Republicans claim to hold dearer to them their Christian Faith. Pray Tell why do Republican Conservatives pitch a hissy fit against Jimmy Carter who is doing what the Bible declares of it's followers to do. Namely Blessed are the peacemakers for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Yet they praise Dubya who is a warmaker. I find this very ironic and VERY telling.

Larry Mohr

"They should really learn a lesson in humility from Bush I and how he handles being an ex-president. He has NEVER forced himself upon America since leaving office like Carter and Clinton do, on almost a monthly basis."

Typical conservatve..whining that their opponents have free speech.

Carter is a tool and a fool.

What is Israel but an "Elitist" Religion Club or actually Cult for a bunch of people who believe some age old,childish nonsense that they're "god's chosen people"! Like in the tale of Moses where god presumably says well yes of course I created the Egyptians,Greks,Romans and everybody else but they're all just really nasty and evil whereas the Jews are my only "good guys"! Oh Wow God Thanks For Making Us "IT" and Everyone Else "Shit"! I mean what a stinking pile of absolute horse shit and this is what the Jews have based their religion and their elitism on! Its nothing short of pathetic and imbecilic !

In North America we don't hear about any holocausts except the Jewish one.We never hear anything at all about the Russian Holocaust under Stalin where not 6 million but three times that many (20 million+) Russians were exterminated or the Cambodian Holocaust where under Pol Pot where 2 million Cambodians were exterminated.There are many other holocausts like the one in Rhawanda and Darfur and elsewhere but we hear little about those holocausts because none of those persecuted people own and dominate the North American media like the "chosen" and ever whining Jews do!

AntiCadillac - don't be silly. Of course we hear about those other killings. The trouble is, the survivors of those don't seem as intent on "making waves" for some reason. I mean, would you travel to Russia today and stir up mass demonstrations for the Stalinist Holocaust? Would you be successful in getting the Cambodians out into the streets and onto Larry King Live?? Come on.

The Jews has seen and survived many such genocide attempts over the millennia. They know how to react and their survivors know how to make known what happened to them. WTF is wrong with that?

And - they are still here. You gotta give them credit regardless of your derision for their beliefs. SOMETHING has kept them going and alive for thousands of years.

- Mr Fair

As far as the whole "right to exist" thing and who ones what land....

When it comes down to it, whomever owns the land is only the current one who can defend it. You can bicker about who live where for how long for years - and lots of idiots do. That doesn't matter.

It comes down to two things: One, if the Palestines can't take their land back, they don't deserve it. If Israel can't defend it, they don't deserve it. Two, Official recognition by other countries. This gets complicated, but if the other half of the world suddenly decided Palestine doesn't exist, it would cease to exist in whatever quasi-state it is in now. it's that simple. Same for Israel.

When you lose a war, you often lose land. Ask Mexico about that one.... You shouldn't fight wars you can't win. If you do lose a war, expect to lose some land.

Frankly, protracted war is brutal. In a large sense I think they should let them go at it and be done with it all. Once in a while things get interesting but then so many other countries pull them apart, giving both sides time to rest and rearm without solving anything.

Arafat and Netanyahu were discussing the ancient
Middle East.

Netanyahu mentioned, "Remember when the Egyptians
enslaved the Palestinians?"

Arafat responded, "Wait a minute, Palestinians
weren't around at that time..."

Netanyahu replied, "Now that we have that settled..."

MRFAIR - sorry but facts are indeed some pesky little thingies aren't they?

GZ, you wouldn't know what and actual fact was even if it hit you along side the head.

Israeli zealots always lose perspective and actual factual insight because of the closed minded justification of themselves trying to justify israeli existance and actions.

Jimma is inappropriate and a traitor. I don't recall the election by the American voters that made him our representative in world politics. He fucked that up enough during the mistake called his presidency. He's full of himself and I pray there is not a cent of taxpayers' money supporting this trip or his security.

Posted by BusyB at 2008-04-15 09:17 PM


...as opposed to holding hands with one of the saudi beeyatchs like george " i like guys too!!!" bush?

Fuck You

If he has such a pressing need to be made a fool of by a murderer, why doesn't Carter go to Cuba and let Castro rub his nose in some shit for old time's sake?

If he has such a pressing need to be made a fool of by a murderer, why doesn't Carter go to Cuba and let Castro rub his nose in some shit for old time's sake?
Posted by Sully


He may even find some peanuts...

for larry and anybody else who keeps referring to "blessed are the peacemakers...blah...blah..." this verse refers only to those who've accepted Yeshua as Savior - it has absotively nothing to do with unbelievers.

the same rules do not apply to those who are lost as to those who are saved.

remember, we're not to be unevenly yoked with unbelievers - therefore unbelievers could not possibly even conceive of the signifigance of this party cooler verse.

please stop using it out of context.

carter will be travelling through the wide gate as he stabs HaShem in the eye.

neither should he be surprised to hear Yeshua say, "i never knew you."

If this visit to Israel and Hamas had been made by say Nelson Mandela instead of Jimmy Carter the Zionists would have assassianted him as ruthlessly and as thoroughly but not because he has any real political clout (neither does Carter).No thats not what the Zionists are really afraid of -what they're desperately afraid of is that the plain,unvarnished "truth" will finally surface from its Israeli dungeon and crush their long running,hate mongering "Scam" like a stone!

The worst president in our time. He should not allowed back into the country. Once he left office he became a private citizen and travel and therefore subjected to the laws of this country.

His passport should be taken at a minumum.

Notice who he sides with: Chaves- a dictator, Hamas - ruthless killer of innocents.

And to Tom - We are not whining on free speech (remember the furor about Reagan getting $2M for a two speaches in Japan? All the news programs went on and on about "tarnishing" the presidency.

But he NEVER (nor did any other president before him) said anything critical about the US - our side the US. It was tradition that NO living president comment on a serving president since Washington.

BOTH CARTER and CLINTON have both commented and have been critical of the US and a sitting president - OUTSIDE the US.

Both have tarnished the presidency more than anyone before or since.

he can't negotiate treatys he can't hand out aid-he can't speak for american people or govt.all he can do is embarass and humiliate the us-his ego may be bigger than bill clinton's
jasman

moneywar
just for historical reference jews were in this area before islam was even a religion-saladin conguered and converted this region 2000years after
jews had settled and called this region their homeland
jasman

"BOTH CARTER and CLINTON have both commented and have been critical of the US and a sitting president - OUTSIDE the US."

You only confirm what I said....conservatives are censorship freaks.

"BOTH CARTER and CLINTON have both commented and have been critical of the US and a sitting president - OUTSIDE the US."
You only confirm what I said....conservatives are censorship freaks.
Posted by Tom_W


I disagree. This is not so much censorship as an expectation that ex-Presidents hold themselves to a certain standard of tactfulness, especially regarding the sitting President. These two "Hee-Haw" Presidents are the worst violaters of this long-followed protocol.

Peanut brain doesn't care about America. Maybe he wants to do "what's right", but it's better to win than lose and be right.

for larry and anybody else who keeps referring to "blessed are the peacemakers...blah...blah..." this verse refers only to those who've accepted Yeshua as Savior - it has absotively nothing to do with unbelievers.

the same rules do not apply to those who are lost as to those who are saved.

remember, we're not to be unevenly yoked with unbelievers - therefore unbelievers could not possibly even conceive of the signifigance of this party cooler verse.

please stop using it out of context...

Posted by nanc


NANC - The Lord didn't put that qualifier in The Beatitudes.

And if folks really want to make peace, I believe they truly are blessed regardless of religion.

HOWEVER - Carter is a politician so who knows what his motives might be? Maybe he's trying to rehabilitate his name before he kicks the bucket.

Sadly, this is NOT the way for him to do that. If he thinks he can get these guys to change their tune and make peace with Israel, he will go down to his grave a disappointed, bitter old man.

I mean, he stands to wipe out all the brownie points he has been getting for his excellent work with Habitat For Humanity. Now THAT'S a great thing for a former President - not muddying up an already murky ME situation.

These guys won't change, and even if one of them wanted to, someone would gently remind him what happened to the last Arab who "successfully" negotiated with Carter and Israel. The poor man ended up like a Swiss cheese, along with his officers and aides, while watching a military parade.

A TALE OF TWO GHETTOS ~~ NOT BY CHARLES DICKENS
The nazis herded the Jews of Poland into ghettos, the largest one being the Warsaw Ghetto. It had 400,000 inhabitants.
The zionists herded the Palestinians into ghettos, the largest one being the Gaza Strip. It HAS one and a half million inhabitants
desertpeace.wordpress.com
"And the Saints go marching in..."
Posted by Bani


You (innocently I'm sure) left out the part where:

1) In Germany the Jews were not surrounded by friendly neighbors who could have really helped them, as opposed to the kind of support the Palestinians have presumably always had locally.

2) the Zionists let the Palestinians stay vs. carting them away in cattle car trains.

3) the Zionists let them live: they didn't try to kill them all in a 6-year period.

Great, just fuckin' great! Someone should have suited him up with a suicide vest before he left. That way something good could come out of this visit.

"CAIRO, Egypt -- Hamas officials said Wednesday that Jimmy Carter's meetings with leaders of the Palestinian militant group will boost its legitimacy despite criticism by Israel and the U.S. government of the former president's personal peace mission.

Carter arrived in Egypt from Israel and the Palestinian territories, where he raised Israeli anger Tuesday by embracing a Hamas official in the West Bank.

A delegation of senior Hamas officials from the Gaza Strip also came to Cairo, escorted by heavy security, and said Carter planned to meet with them Thursday.

A Carter spokesman refused to comment on Hamas' claim. After sitting down with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and speaking at the American University on Thursday, Carter is scheduled to meet in Damascus, Syria, on Friday with Hamas' top leader, Khaled Mashaal."

I always thought when people get put in jail for voicing opinions on certain 'facts' that simply don't add up...maybe they might be on to something...what do you think, Mr.Fair?:>)
Posted by Bani


I think free speech is precious and so frankly I am also pissed off about Brigitte Bardot being repeatedly accused and fined simply for speaking her mind about the local Muslims.

But the facts have been examined ad infinitum over the past 60-plus years. The problem is that in certain parts of Europe they really do stifle free speech.

If the Germans would let their Revisionists speak out, they would probably be end up being seen as kooks, just like everywhere else. OR - the painful subject could be really bad for the legendary postwar German society of peace and stability. I reckon they would rather not risk it.

Bani - I will research.

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