He will not require . . . that they be opposed . . . to the "don't ask-don't tell".

Too many negatives for me to keep track of. What is his position on gays in the service? Wouldn't it be easier to say that, instead of lawyerese?

Maybe not.

I agree.

That's the first thing I noticed as well. He's starting to sound more and more like Bill Clinton everyday.

All anyone has to do is click the link and read the linked article like I did and your questions can be answered.

DUH

This is one thing he can do unilaterally. Truman integrated with Executive Order. Bill Clinton could have, said he would in 1992, but bunted. Hillary Clinton says she will (do you believe her more than Bill?). Of course, Bill proudly signed the DOMA in a White House press event in August 1996 (middle of his re-election campaign), and the majority of gays still love the Clintons. Go figure.

EVERLONG

Your obvious lack of interest in clicking the link sounds more and more like George W Bush everyday.

I don't get people who make themselves look stupid because they didn't take 3 minutes to read a short article before posting.

But I think there's increasing recognition within the Armed Forces that this is a counterproductive strategy," he said. "We're spending large sums of money to kick highly qualified gays or lesbians out of our military, some of whom possess specialties like Arab-language capabilities that we desperately need. That doesn't make us more safe."


Clear enough?

Obama: Repeal of 'Don't Ask' Possible

Add this on to yesterday's headlines, guess we'll soon have a military composed of openly gay Ugandans. Makes on wonder if any Americans citizens will be in the U.S. military anymore at the rate we're going.

"guess we'll soon have a military composed of openly gay Ugandans."

Gawd, I love that image!

Hey, baby, we've come a long way since the Hessians were roaming around.

It'll be like one big Ladysmith Black Mambazo concert.

Keeping in mind how many libs hate the military, it is possible that we will have to hire the hessians to fight for us.

"Makes on wonder if any Americans citizens"

gee Chris, I musta missed the stripping of citizenship from gays.

"Keeping in mind how many libs hate the military, it is possible that we will have to hire the hessians to fight for us."

It would help if you guys could come up with better wars, i.e. those worth fighting.
hold my breath.

But I think there's increasing recognition within the Armed Forces that this is a counterproductive strategy," he said. "We're spending large sums of money to kick highly qualified gays or lesbians out of our military, some of whom possess specialties like Arab-language capabilities that we desperately need. That doesn't make us more safe."


Clear enough?



Ummmm, no. But I forget, dems don't believe that a clear yes or no is relative to an actual position. If you need someone to break that down for you it reads, 'I am waiting to see how the military would like to handle this and while I wait I'm going to say something that gives the impression that I'm on the side of homosexuals.'

Here's a link to the published interview in The Advocate.


I'd click on it, but I'd prefer not to be infected with HIV...

Rob-
Don't worry, you can't contract HIV from a photo, and if you get a stiffy it'll wash off when you rub it.

As long as gays don't tell--no one is getting kicked out or forced to leave.

There is an argument that units are disrupted with a gay person in it. Maybe --maybe not.

I don't care as long as they want to kill the enemy --fine by me.

Murphy

Dean-
re: There's hope for Death's PUD to ride the lead float
in the gay brigade!

(Al Qaeda is shaking in their open-toed chiffon slippers!)

Actually, al Qaeda hates fags as much as you seem to. You're allies of a sort.

Actually, al Qaeda hates fags as much as you seem to. You're allies of a sort.

Always said that taliban afghanistan was one messiah short of being a Republican wet dream.

There is an argument that units are disrupted with a gay person in it.

To be honest, I dont care if someone is gay or not in the foxhole next to me, but one thing we wont accept is a flaming gay person. It is too much of a distraction and not compatible with military bearing and values. Regardless of what you libs force on us, the military will never accept a man walking around the barracks in a skirt.

Seems to me they didn't mind Klinger running around Boaz.

Larry Mohr

of our military, some of whom possess specialties like Arab-language capabilities that we desperately need. That doesn't make us more safe."

Posted by northguy3


Pretty soon the old slogan, do it for the children will make a come back.


......we desperately need...,

to do it for the children,

Not doing it for the children,

.....that doesn't make us more safe...

rwd

OBAMA

HOW DO YOU PLAN....on housing the gays???

i would like to see how this question is answered

All anyone has to do is click the link and read the linked article like I did and your questions can be answered.

DUH

Posted by AMERICANUNITY

* * *

I did. Here's what he said:

Asked what he could reasonably accomplish for the gay community as president, Obama said he can "reasonably see" repeal of the "don't ask, don't tell" policy as well as signing legislation to ban workplace discrimination against gays. He said he'd like transgendered people to be covered by the law, but thinks it would be tough to get such legislation through Congress.

Wow. Sounds ambitious. Does he realize that, as Commander-in-chief, he can do away with don't-ask-don't-tell with a stroke of a pen? He doesn't have to "reasonably see" anything--tell us, just what the hell are you going to do about inequality in sexual preference?
Barack's answer: I'll give an occasional interview to gay magazines, and legislate on the gay issues in largely the same way Clinton and Bush have.

Regardless of what you libs force on us, the military will never accept a man walking around the barracks in a skirt.

Eventually the military will.
Remember the Dems hate HATE HATE the military. Anything they can do to destroy it, they will do.
Take look at the UK and Canadian military. While you have a group of believers keeping those organizations alive, the core has been hollowed out.
The UK military is down to paying for sex changes and allowing cross-dressing in uniform. There are towns next to UK bases (in the UK) that are offically no-go zones for the military due to the anti-military sentiment.
The Dems desperately want to bring that to America.

Oh, but they support the troops and you can't question their patriotism (I think there is really no question).

The Don't Ask, Don't Tell, was really a Shut-Up and Behave policy.

OBAMA

HOW DO YOU PLAN....on housing the gays???

i would like to see how this question is answered

Posted by judas


Obama will create a new plan where everyone's heart will be filled with hope for change.

rwd

what we should do is have a seperate gay units and base....stocked and ran by gays....it would be more of a right of passage... just like we did to the blacks

the gay units can make thier own unit patch and battle flags....... i wonder what their flags and patchs would look like

the thing is....there is no easy solution to having gays in the military.....the cost would be too high....and the military likes to do things cheap

Hey house gays and lesbians with the heterosexuals. I mean come on I bet many here have ran into Gays and Lesbians without even knowing it. I don't see what the big deal is. Bigotry and Homophobia is all.

Larry Mohr

"Death's PUD"


FF

"As long as gays don't tell--no one is getting kicked out or forced to leave."

No, actually you are full of shit Murphy.
Gay soldiers have even been discharged because their house burned down and the fire department discovered that the owner had a gay partner living there and reported them to the military. Anyone can squeal on a soldier who happens to be gay and they do just to cause harm to them.

"Remember the Dems hate HATE HATE the military."

I love the pure stupidity of this statement. It requires such a completely pure level of stupidity that it is beautiful in a special way.

All anyone has to do is dance around the link and read the linked article like I did and you too can be gay.

DUH

AmericanUnity

Danni,

The armed forces are not a state employment agency. The idea is to keep the people in the mood to go risk their hides on our behalf. To that end, it is foolish to piss them off on this one.

The fact is, many in the armed forces don't like gay people. So what? The Constitution does not require everyone to like gay people. Why piss everybody off and cause a lot of morale problems by forcing everybody to swallow that one just for the sake of one particular group?

The army is better off without gay people in it, so long as the majority opinion is anti-gay. Over time, should that opinion change among soldiers, I'm sure the policy could be changed. Until then, why make the army fight itself when it has enough to do?

It's really just a practical matter. It's a little tricky, because the transition in the past in the case of blacks and women was to have homogenous units, which, through combat experience, earned respect...eventually leading to integration (although the women part has not been thoroughly successful, for several very good reasons). I don't think an openly gay unit would be likely to garner respect, so much as derision, so I just think the armed forces need to wait until and if public perception of gays changes to the point where its not a negative. In parts of the population, this is already true. In the armed forces, it is not.

In the mean time, the army is trying to be accomodating, with a policy that allows for gay people so long as it doesn't cause any probems...ie, people don't notice. That seems practical to me....At least they don't ask...

Only problem with that stupid argument JONRYKER is that certain skills are needed badly by the military and some gay folks happen to have those skills. Certain units in the military, especially in the medical field will not be able to function without their gay members. Can't have the need for these gay people and yet still expect them to hide who they are. The military needs to grow the fuck up. If some members can't get along with others for whatever reason then it is they who need to go, and most likely the ones who will object the loudest to gay service personnel are the least intelligent and do not possess such critical skills.

Danni,

So, people who choose to give their lives for others haven't grown up, huh?

Yet, we remain the most effective military in the world and have been for some time. I don't see evidence that "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" isn't working..... In the end, military policy is all about what works, not affirmative action.

1 to 2% total gay population makes no difference in the military, even if they could qualify to serve. It would not make a hill of beans for induction.

So you get about 50 more to add to 140,000. Danni picked Vernon's calculator.

"Yet, we remain the most effective military in the world and have been for some time. I don't see evidence that "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" isn't working....."

More accurately, you don't see evidence that the presence of gay soldiers is harming the military.
However, "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" does harm gay troops. But hey, I know, you're one of those people who support most of the troops.

"In the end, military policy is all about what works, not affirmative action."

Calling it affirmative action is just a bull shit lie. These troops are already in the service doing their duty, why should they be discharged just because some busy body figures out they are gay.
There have been quite a few who have been close to retirement when outed....thereby losing their retirement benefits after dedicating themselves to the military for their entire career.

I want some folks to get new stickers for their cars that say...."we support most of the troops."

"1 to 2% total gay population makes no difference in the military"

Where do you get such a figure and how could it be derived under "don't ask don't tell?"

Danni,

Where do you get such a figure and how could it be derived under "don't ask don't tell?"


My guess is the army urinals and showers. Just like in sports, the locker room is shared space. When you've got some dude staring at your unit with fascination, the gaydar begins to ping.

Ultimately, the evidence is anecdotal, but it's noteworthy nonetheless.

PS - Is it top-down weather for you down there?

It certainly isn't here in Michigan - we may get a little snow this weekend.

the gaydar begins to ping.
Hot, hot, hot!
Yrs,
Jeff "Bushbaby" Gannon

"Ultimately, the evidence is anecdotal, but it's noteworthy nonetheless."

So, the figure is bull shit, that's what I thought.
BTW, under "don't ask don't tell" that same gay soldier is still there in the locker room, you just don't know which one he/she is.
In high schools and colleges gay and straight students have shared locker rooms for ever.
Seems to me, if a straight guy is afraid of gays, he'd be better off if he knew who they were.
Seems to me that a gay soldier, if out, would make sure he behaved in a manner that his fellow soldiers wouldn't object to, that's how it works outside of the military.

"PS - Is it top-down weather for you down there?"

It is but it is supposed to rain later.

Danni,

My entire post was intended as a joke.

It is Friday, ya know.

It is

Then get out there, girl!


but it is supposed to rain later.

All the more reason to get out there now. It rained here all of last night and it was about 40 degrees Fahrenheit to boot.

"It is Friday, ya know"

I realize that after I responded, then I noticed you asking about the weather. I think I started the morning kind of in a pissy mood. Thanks for shaking me out of it.

"All the more reason to get out there now."

One little problem....work.

Fuck ya

[PDF] SOME DEMOGRAPHIC CHARACTERISTICS OF THE GAY COMMUNITY IN THE ...File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
ESTIMATE OF TOTAL GAY POPULATION IN THE UNITED STATES .... US POPULATION. 138053563. 143368343. 281421906. GAY IDENTIFIED. 2.8% of all males=. 3865500 ...
www.law.ucla.edu/
williamsinstitute/
publications/
GayDemographics.pdf - Similar pages

In high school Danni He would get the shit beat out of him if the others knew. Or are you really naive.

He statement sounds kinda weak, not like somthing a leader would say.

For Danni,

1 to 2% total gay population (US) makes no difference in the military, even if they

could/would

qualify to serve. It would not make a hill of beans for induction.

"In high school Danni He would get the shit beat out of him if the others knew."

I've known gay kids during the past fewyears who are out and have been able to attend school without problems. Hopefully times are changing.

1 to 2% total gay population (US) makes no difference in the military, even if they

do qualify to serve....and serve honorably....which many do.

Most of the more neutral sites I check say that the percentage of gay people is probably between the 10% claimed by Kinsey and the 1% claimed by anti-gay grouops and the figure most often cited was around 4-5%.
Doesn't actually matter in relation to "don't ask" though if the minority is a little smaller, IMHO.

Danni,

The proper question is: why should we screw up the morale of the army so that more gay people can be outed? They don't have to join the army...they chose to. They chose this knowing that many of them would not be liked if they are outed....Seems to me that they knew the risks....

It's not about fair. Clearly, it is not fair. The armed forced are not about fair. They are about effective.

You don't piss the majority of your army off just because it feels good to be fair. Armies are made of people who are capable of being quite mean and violent. You really want to force them to try to change their outlook? When thousands of them leave, you gonna get gay people to replace those numbers? What about when the knuckle-draggers in the bunch decide to start lynching gay people who openly "flaunt" their homosexuality, which these people see as perversion?

IT JUST ISN'T WORTH THE TROUBLE, GIVEN THE SMALL NUMBER OF JAY RECRUITS.

....or GAY RECRUITS!

I think that there should be a requirement that the President served in the military and was honorably discharged.

That would have eliminated Kerry who got out with a Medical and had it upgraded years later by appeal.

"I think that there should be a requirement that the President served in the military and was honorably discharged."

Would have eliminated Reagan. I'm sure you'd find a way to allow TExas Air National Gaurd members to serve as president regardless if they went AWOL or not. What you really want is a requirement that they be REpublicans.

I think I agree with you somewhat Spiel, about the military service. That would rule out Cheney and Bush too mind you.

Though have there been 'good' presidents in the past that did not serve? I think service is always a plus, to have experience in what is the most powerful military is good if you ask me.

I don't think, since the armed forces are volunteer now, that the president should be required to have served. It's too narrow of a cross-section of person. Only certain sorts of people volunteer for military service. I wouldn't want to restrict the choice for president to only those options.

Does this also mean we can't ask Obama about the murdered gay choirmaster in his church?

In the words of Kenye West "Obama doesnt care about GAY people" (joke)



Barack Obama says if elected president he will not require that his Joint Chiefs of Staff be opposed to the "don't ask, don't tell" policy that prevents gays from serving openly in the military.


I think what he is saying is that he doesnt care if they are for the policy or against it. HE is not going to ask them is they are for or against it and they dont have to tell him wether they support it or are against it.

Hey house gays and lesbians with the heterosexuals. I mean come on I bet many here have ran into Gays and Lesbians without even knowing it. I don't see what the big deal is. Bigotry and Homophobia is all.

Larry Mohr




So i guess you do not mind girls being housed with guys...girls sharing showers with guys????

THE PROBLEM WITH GAYS BEING ALLOWED IN THE MILITARY IS MORE OF A ATTRACTION PROBLEM THAN A TOLERANCE PROBLEM

"I mean come on I bet many here have ran into Gays and Lesbians without even knowing it."

Only once or twice. Most of the time I have run into them on purpose. Shit, a couple of times I even had to back up and nail them with the driver's door.

Obama sounds like Hugo Chavez now days. I was his suppoerter but I am sick and tired of him not taking a stance in any issue. After hearing the reverend stories which they are many, I decided to go independent.
I woke up after realizing that he favors anything that makes America look bad. Not me Mr. Barack Hussein Obama. I would never vote for a president who is ashamed of his middle name.
Something is not adding up right here..sorry sir..
Hillary is a washed out clown.....

Once the Democrats start cleaning their own house; from
Kennedy-Murder
Clinton-Sex Abuser
Al Sharpton-Race Bater
Hillary-Liar
Martha-Commited treason
Howard Dean-Discriminates against age

I will come back...till then I am voting REPUBLICAN.
Thanks for the 30 years of nothing

"Obama sounds like Hugo Chavez now days. I was his suppoerter but I am sick and tired of him not taking a stance in any issue."

Sure you were.

Gays!? FUCK!

Obama sounds like Hugo Chavez now days. I was his suppoerter but I am sick and tired of him not taking a stance in any issue.

Posted by cmsa1r at 2008-04-11 05:10 PM

When were you a supporter?

If I have happen to get an errection while I shower
with handsom young men - YOU DON'T HAVE TO LOOK!

...and they call me a fag...
What are people afraid of?

I will come back...till then I am voting REPUBLICAN.
Thanks for the 30 years of nothing

Welcome back to sanity...