Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Tuesday, April 08, 2008

Iran has begun installing 6,000 new centrifuges at its uranium enrichment plant, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Tuesday, in a new snub to the West which fears Tehran is trying to build nuclear bombs.

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"Today we have started the installation of 6,000 new centrifuges ... I will announce more achievements tonight," the official IRNA news agency quoted Ahmadinejad as saying at Natanz in central Iran, surrounded by anti-aircraft guns.

He will deliver a speech later on Tuesday at a ceremony in Tehran to celebrate Iran's National Day of Nuclear Technology.

In Washington, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said Iran "with each step it takes ... continues to isolate its people further from the rest of the international community."

The United States has not ruled out military action to stop Iran's nuclear activities and Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev, in reaction to Ahmadinejad's announcement, urged the international community to stop Tehran's "aggressive" atomic work.

Come on Bush there is still time to bomb them and don't worry about the mess, the next pres. will be ready on day one.

straife'em!

damascus first!

isaiah 17:1

They are not building centerfuges. The fear mongering right is trying to monger their fear mongering even more. Be sides even if they were it would have been the war-fear mongering VP who told them to do so. Realy though if you look at REAL news sources like huffington not some other pants-pisser mongering right wing mongering hate mongering rag you would know the are just merry go rounds for the fun mongering children. Just more proof the fear mongering mongers are at their old mongering tricks again.







Monger

"right wing mongering hate mongering rag you would know the are just merry go rounds for the fun mongering children. Just more proof the fear mongering mongers are at their old mongering tricks again"

Sometimes sarcasm is lost on the listener...

Other times it is lost on the attempter...

"Other times it is lost on the attempter..."


Hey we all have to be stupid sometime, for me it's just a little more often.

damascus first!


What does Syria have to do with Iran?

Perhaps Ness you might find this op ed piece by Carol Glick of the Jerusalem Post relevant to answering your question regarding Syria and Iran ...

www.jpost.com

and here's two paragraphs from the piece ....

"WHAT IS most striking about the Bush administration's unwillingness to reveal the nature of the Israeli raid to Congress is how it seems to upset the administration's own war efforts in Iraq. Working together, under Iranian control, for the past five years Syria and Iran have been the major forces behind the war in Iraq. Jihadists of both the Sunni and Shiite variety enter Iraq from Syria and Iran. They receive training in both countries. They receive direction and orders from Iranian Revolutionary Guards.

And yet, rather than make clear to Congress and to the US public that the war in Iraq is not an Iraqi war per se but a key battleground in a regional war in which Iran and Syria have combined forces on multiple fronts in a bid to defeat the US and its allies, the Bush administration obfuscates that central truth. For the past five years, key administration officials have repeated the bizarre claim that Iran and Syria share the US's interest in bringing stability to Iraq and that responsibility for ending the war rests solely on the shoulders of Iraq's government rather than on the shoulders of the foreign governments who are waging the war. "

GZ-STILL pushing war on Iran I see...nothing new-nothing unexpected.
Iraq and Afghanistan have damn near destroyed our military capability-and YOU want us to start ANOTHER war???
You guys invade-bomb-or just fart in their general direction-and leave us out of it.

If I understand this correctly, Russia has been supplying and helping Iran build a nuclear power plant. But according to GZ and his Zionist friends, Iran is building nuclear weapons. So wouldn't that mean Russia is helping Iran build nuclear weapons. So why no protests to Russia? GZ?

I already know the answer. The charge that Iran is building nukes is a fraud.

Don't worry GZ. You'll get your war on Iran - and live to regret it.

Hey, these are just 6,000 peaceful centrifuges for nuclear fuel.

The heart of Islamofascism has always been a land of peace.

I've changed my stance on Iran... Iran even with a handful of nukes and even a missile delivery system is no threat, because they'll never use them. MAD only existts when the destruction of both nations would occur if nukes were used. If Iran were to get a nuke, and used it on Israel, then Israel would carpet bomb the country with dozens of nukes, destroying... and not one Lefty could say shit, because Iran would have attacked first... same with if they wanted to attack American forces or interests... if they strike first with nukes their country will be gone in a heartbeat, because the acronym that kept us and Russia from war doesn't apply to them.

For those who are unaware of what Zionism actually is - I mean political Zionism as opposed to spiritual Zionism - and why it is the complete opposite of Judaism, I offer the following brief explanation.

Judaism is the religion of Jews, not the Jews because not all Jews are religious. And, like Christianity and Islam, Judaism has at its core a set of moral values and ethical principles. All the religious Jews of the world look to Jerusalem as the centre of their religion and spiritual capital, and in that sense they could be said to be, and many do regard themselves as being, spiritual Zionists.

Political Zionism is the nationalism of some Jews, actually a tiny minority of the world's Jews at the time of Zionism's first public and dishonest mission statement in 1897, which colonised land, Palestine, to create a state for some Jews; an enterprise which required the incoming, alien Zionist colonisers - most if not all of whom had no biological connection to the ancient Hebrews, the first Israelites - to ethnically cleanse the land of most of its indigenous Arab inhabitants, the majority population at the time of the colonisation. A Zionist today is one, not necessarily a Jew, who (to quote Balfour) supports the Zionist state of Israel "right or wrong", and who cannot or will not admit that a wrong was done to the Palestinians by Zionism, a wrong that must be righted on terms acceptable to the Palestinians for justice and peace.

The whole point of Zionism's colonial enterprise was, as it still is, to take for keeping the maximum amount of Arab land with the minimum number of Arabs on it; an enterprise that was assisted by the obscenity of the Nazi holocaust, which gave Zionism a blackmail card to silence criticism of Israel throughout the mainly Gentile Judeo-Christian world and suppress informed and honest debate about who must do what and why for justice and peace.

In summary it can be said that Zionism makes a mockery of, and has contempt for, the moral values and ethical principles of Judaism. That being so, it's all the more amazing that Zionist spin doctors succeeded in making the mainly Gentile Judeo-Christian world believe that Judaism and Zionism are one and the same thing. They are emphatically not. Zionism, as the title of my latest book asserts and its substance demonstrates, is the real enemy of the Jews, as well as being the biggest single threat to the peace of the region and arguably the world.

www.informationclearinghouse.i
nfo

Rob: Good point. The whole Missile Shield is a scam for the same reason. Satellites would pick up the launch before the missile cleared the launch pad. Nobody, even crazy Kim is going to commit suicide. It also gives a great incentive for other countries to keep a close eye on their missile bases. Iran's ayatollahs may be mad, but they aren't looking forward to End Times like Bush. They've got a long term vision for Iran's role in the ME.

But it makes the defence industry more money than inspecting cargo containers.

rob? you and me agree??

vow!

They've got a long term vision for Iran's role in the ME.


I suppose that is a reason to stop Iran though... a nuclear arms race in the middle east is a freaking scarey thought. Eventually one of the savage Muslims will get hold of one and take it to Israel or here...

Now if they used that as the reason to stop Iran, I could support that, but not because Iran is a threat to us or Israel... even without nukes we would wipe out Iran's military very quickly if need be.

If I were president I would sign treaties with all the nations of the ME besides Iran to say that if Iran were to attack them with nukes we will respond for them in return for them not building their own arsenals.

The whole Missile Shield is a scam for the same reason

The current need for the missile shield is bogus.... but the real point of the missile shield is so that in the future, we have the capability of stopping an attack from a nation like China or Russia... this system is developing quickly... 10-15 years from now, provided no one kills it, it will be a formidable shield. That's why Russia is so against it...

This was only done to placate Crotch Fur and they really are the good guys. One thing, do not drop your soap in a community shower. (They have one in each major city for show.)

No one is calling for Iran to be invaded/occupied (i.e.,
Afghanistan or Iraq) but their nuclear capability
has to be destroyed, if possible.

None of the options are pretty:

Iran developes nukes - and uses them (Suitcase nuke in Long Beach harbor, Times Square, Tel Aviv).

We strike Iran with HEAVY BOMBING (perhaps nukes
too to [attempt] to destroy nuke capability)
- Iranians pour into Iraq by the millions (US retaliates with tactical nukes on the battlefield).

If you think Iran is not developing nuclear weapons
(to actually use them) YOU ARE MISTAKEN.

We have few allies (Isreal, UK). We have to be prepared for worse things.

Am I a fear-monger? No, I believe the Iranian leadership
to be evil - like Hitler was evil.

The Iranians have oil UP THE ASS (500 century supply?) - why else would they need to develop
nuclear "energy"?

This option is not available:
Obama convinces Ahmadinejad that Isreal has a right
to exist and that Jews are not devils. Ahmadinejad,
seeing the error of his ways, calls for all Muslims
to not wage Jihad on the west.

The decision to go to war with Iran is coming soon. McCain, Hillary and Obama will decide, unless
Bush beats them to the punch. We cannot just wait
for Iran to act rationally.

Israel has the capability to deal with Iran. They have nukes if you didn't know, but they've never been willing to accept inspections, international controls, etc. Iran is a signatory to the IAEA.

I don't think it is our fight.

Iran even with a handful of nukes and even a missile delivery system is no threat,


ROB...what makes you think a missile system will be used as a delivery system???

i think America has already learned that you do not need a delivery system in order to deliver warheads

I agree, Ozark. Israel has already shown that they have no problem bombing nuclear facilities in nearby countries.(iraq)

Why is this OUR problem? It's not like we aren't financially supporting Israels defense already, do our troops have to die over there too?

you need a precise neutron delivery mechanism to start the chain reaction needed to activate the "nuke"

I don't think it is our fight.

I must agree with you. Our next administration wont have the balls to wage another war. Isreal wont have that problem. I just wonder, will we be beside them?

www.usatoday.com

suitcase nuke technology is most likely out of iran's capability

the usa could do it though, but doesn't need to.

Much like Saddam the Iranians blow about how tough they are because of the neocon madmen in our so-called government.


Rob: Good point. The whole Missile Shield is a scam for the same reason. Satellites would pick up the launch before the missile cleared the launch pad. Nobody, even crazy Kim is going to commit suicide. It also gives a great incentive for other countries to keep a close eye on their missile bases. Iran's ayatollahs may be mad, but they aren't looking forward to End Times like Bush. They've got a long term vision for Iran's role in the ME.

But it makes the defence industry more money than inspecting cargo containers.

Posted by northguy3 at 2008-04-08 09:09 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Can someone please explain to me just one more time
why we envaded Iraq????

Lefty:
The obvious answer:
to establish permanent basis in the Middle East.

Is it possible they want to produce nuclear energy as they say?

Is it possible they want to produce nuclear energy as they say?

Ford and Kissinger approved the transfer of technology in 1975 to the Shah. Same argument as today: They want to export oil not consume it.

Is it possible they want to produce nuclear energy as they say?
Yes, Iran wants to produce a large amount of energy directly above Tel Aviv.

Just like they say.

the question remains

How many reactors and centrifuges does Iran need for its 71,000,000 people???

and how big is the market for enriched uranium???

the thing is that i understand the people of Iran probably consume more power than most nations....for the simple fact they live in the fucking desert


but where is the line drawn...without being suspect of other activites....on the power produced v.s. power consumed

if iran is producing 10Xs the amount of power per person needed on a daily basis....i know i would be asking questions too

Is it possible they want to produce nuclear energy as they say?

AU

Ford and Kissinger approved the transfer of technology in 1975 to the Shah. Same argument as today: They want to export oil not consume it.

Posted by OzarkAggie


Their oil is running out. Well, if they DO make weapons (which I doubt) they'll have dandy delivery systems they can engineer from those Exocet missles Reagan gave them

They don't need missiles.
They have human missiles called Hezbollah who will happily deliver dirty bombs to Israeli, European and US cities. After all, its Allah's will as they see it.

And lets say an Israeli city is rendered uninhabitable by a dirty bomb, will the world community allow the Israelis to strike at Iran or thinking oil prices, will they let Israel know that striking Iran will cost them dearly.

"It wasn't us" the Iranians will claim while the Left in Europe claims any attack on Iran will be "collective punishment" as they always accuse Israel of doing - until one of their own cities also gets hit.

Meanwhile, oil prices will spike like we've never seen. All the Shias living in Bahrain and Saudi Arabia and Iraq, major oil producers, will make it very difficult to keep a flow of oil coming our way.

The Russians will love it since they are the chief beneficiaries of the high oil prices that will result.

And our economy already reeling will sink along with most of the western industrialized nations. We could be seeing a modern depression as a result.

How much of this material is out there?

What else is out there?

Will the Syrians also have been given it?

Are there any small nukes loose?

The Saudis will immediately have nukes delivered to protect them from Iran from the US.

Bahrain may be next to go having about 80% Shia

Egypt has already been shopping for nuclear reactor supposedly for "energy"

So has Jordan.

All this because Iran wasn't stopped when she could have been.

Iran will never strike Israel directly.
She'll share the weapons with her proxies and direct them to do it.
It's Iran's style. Think Cobar Towers

My guess is if the west doesn't stop Iran, Israel will soon take out Syria and Hamas hoping Hezbollah gets the message without any additional bloodshed otherwise despite the large collateral damage that will certainly occur given Hezbollah admittedly uses women and children as human shields, Israel will decimate Hezbollah once and for all.

That's why its our fight ...

AU,

"Their oil is running out." - better check that....second largest conventional oil reserves, estimated at 105 Gigabarrels.

"from those Exocet missles Reagan gave them"
Exocet is a french missle? But I understand....

"which I doubt" - Why wouldn't they make it, if they could? If I was Iran, and I could, I would....

gz

the only problem with a dirty bomb case is
that uranium is too heavy to cart around so plutonium is the material of choice

iran isn't doing plutonium

india is, india doesn't supply to terrorists

you know who is scary that uses plutonium

north korea.

you know when i watch tv

i hear nothing but ads for switching to "clean" nuclear energy

and oil burning electric plants are the amongst the most polluting.

hmm

"
uranium is too heavy to cart around so plutonium is the material of choice
"

Densities:

18.95 g/cc Uranium
19.32 g/cc Gold
19.35 g/cc Tungsten
19.84 g/cc Plutonium

We cannot just wait
for Iran to act rationally.

Posted by dean_buvia


Yeah, because we all know how their pre emptive invasion of a sovereign nation, based on lies and manipulated intelligence turned out.




"The Iranians have oil UP THE ASS (500 century supply?) - why else would they need to develop
nuclear "energy"?"

You tell me imbecile. It was the US that convinced them to start their program.

"500 century supply?"

Iran oil reserves ~100 billion barrels
www.globalsecurity.org

World oil consumption ~83 million barrels per day.
kids.yahoo.com

100,000,000,000/83,000,000 = 1204.8 days.

More like a 0.033 century supply.

It's a double blow that those wacky Iranians get it and are moving on to energy independence while shoring up a commodity that will only increase in value. Meanwhile we are just waking up.

Do not worry, we mean you know harm.

Abbadammadingdong.

What does Syria have to do with Iran?

Posted by ness_gadol at 2008-04-08 03:49 PM


They're first cousins.


What did Africa have to do with Japan?

These are peaceful tools they are gathering.

dean_buvia, you're one of Them.

Eeeek!

You are probably part of that 19% who believe that the country is on track and that Bush is doing a good job.

"How much of this material is out there?

What else is out there?

Will the Syrians also have been given it?

Are there any small nukes loose?

The Saudis will immediately have nukes delivered to protect them from Iran from the US.

Bahrain may be next to go having about 80% Shia

Egypt has already been shopping for nuclear reactor supposedly for "energy"

So has Jordan."


So imagine the impact some or all of the above will have on that all important economic factor called "consumer confidence" ...

"Exocet missles Reagan gave them"

Posted by americanunity

Exocets???!!!!

Reagan gave French Exocet "missiles" to the Iranians?

Wow!!

The ignorance of some people is truly stunning. Iran to my knowledge has never attacked any other country. They are being help up as this great threat much the same way Saddam was. Funny thing Saddam turned out to be a tempest in a teacup. Iran is more compatible with our philosophy that many of our other "allies" in the region. Maybe just maybe if we treated them with a little courtesy and respect instead of swinging our dick around and acting like we rule the world we might make some real progress

SalaryMan, that being said, Ahmadinejad could learn to STFU once in a while. For somebody trying to seek international cred for his country, he sure talks a lot of trash. Pissin' off the Israelis he is, who are looking for any excuse to get the US to go in a smash Iran for them.

Zot is it possible that some what the man is saying is being mistranslated and taken out of context? But yes you are right I think its time for the kids to go night night and let the adults handle these things.

Salaryman,

So, when they attacked our embassy, our sovereign territory, they weren't being aggressive? When they kidnapped our diplomats and held them against their will, they were not being aggressive.

I'll be honest, I don't know who started the Iran/Iraq War, but I think its safe to say that Iran was pretty aggessively involved.

I think you'd say that Iran aggressively funds terror groups who aggressively attack innocent citizens of other nations in a planned and exceedingly violent way.

I have to wonder how it is that you don't seem to know this.

Jon, please its time to go night night. When you are a bug boy you can stay up late with the adults.

If a nuke hits us, it will come courtesy of Russia. Even now their control over their nukes is haphazard at best. And Putin wants to build more/newer ones, meaning he'll care even less what happens to the old ones. Unfortuntely, our attention is fixated on a blowhard in Iran.

"The ignorance of some people is truly stunning. Iran to my knowledge has never attacked any other country."

I always enjoy this typical Leftie soundbite ... of course it conveniently leaves out the fact that Iran is currently backing Hezbollah who is sitting inside Lebanon and might as well have attacked them since their (Hezbollah's) decision to cross Israel's border to kidnap Israeli soldiers led to a war which cost Lebanon a great deal of their infrastructure and a substantial number of Lebanese civilians.

Iran also backs and trains Hamas and suppies them with long range grad and Katyusha missiles via Syria and Iran also supplies the various groups inside Iraq who are currently killing US troops and so its silly to argue that Iran is some sort of peaceful benign nation who is really misunderstood when they are deeply involved in all those endlessly trying to undermine any chance at having peace in the region whether it be Lebanon, Israel or Iraq.

Of course, GZLIVES, you may be correct in some of your assertions concerning Iran. But one must also look at many of the actions the US has taken over the few short centuries of its existence in the support of many not so savory regimes/ governments/ factions. Most recently, Saddam H and Osama BL immediately spring to mind before they become the Nemeses of the US. Israel is seen by many nations around the world as rather rogue considering its treatment of the Palestinians and surrounding nations, its defiance towards the UN, and non-compliance of UN resolutions, which I believe is one of the excuses the US used to go kick the crap out of Iraq, again.

Bottom line, if there was no oil in the ME, there would be no problem. The ME for Americans would be little more than the land of sand and camels and pyramids and strange guys with big curvy swords and towels on their heads and women who can shake their booties in the most incredible manner.

US troops are being targeted because... well... they are there. Iran being a direct and immediate threat to the US is a bit of a stretch.


Densities:

18.95 g/cc Uranium
19.32 g/cc Gold
19.35 g/cc Tungsten
19.84 g/cc Plutonium


we're talking isotopes of uranium not straight uranium

the atomic weights are more then double
u235
but the piont is that it takes way less plutonium to start a reaction then uranium

ZOT ... no, I don't agree this has anything to do with US or Israel although that certainly seems to appeal to a certain political philosophy which endlessly blames America and Israel and Christianity and Judaism and Zionism and anything and everyone other then who is really to blame.

Blame Jihad, radical Islam, 7th century barbaric behavior and the belief that spreading Islam is an obligation to God. Blame the incitement spread by insane and ridiculous propaganda that marginalizes human beings because of their faith while at the same time convincing people like you that its really them being victimized. According to these people - those you accuse the Israelis of victimizing, between firing rockets at Israeli civilians, they are referring to me as descending from pigs and monkeys.

I direct your attention to the endless TV programming aimed at TODDLERS no less teaching them that murdering Jews is an honorable thing. You surely can't believe that any peace could really come as long as this sort of thing is being taught to children do you?

Why can't I as a Jew own property in Jordan? And why aren't they considered an Apartheid country along with 22 other countries that have similar laws while the only country there that is truly multiracial and multifaith is bashed endlessly by the Left? Why is the LEft AWOL on all aside from the barbarians at the gate?

Are you aware that over 4,000 homosexuals have been executed in Iran simply because they are gay ? No wonder Ahmadinejad thinks there are no gays in his country. He thinks they have already murdered them all. Where's the Left and all that vocal crap they save for Israel and America/

Its just pure bullshit blaming America and Israel for the outrageous behavior of the mad Mullahs of Iran and their puppet Ahmadeinjad.

GZ you are a blind fool if you can't see the effect of the actions of the US and others in Iran. The point some of us are trying to make is that maybe its time to recognize that what we are doing is not working. The time has come to put down the sabers. The time has come to let reason have a chance to work.

Hell, we can always blow em all up later if they cross us.

I agree with GZ-- we should bomb Iran, however GZ sees all this through a well-documented zionist POV, despite his attempts to make others think that it is whole Iran thing is "all of our problem". Fortunately, being an American through and through, I don't see it in such a way, but that's not to say I don't agree with GZ that it might take some strength and courage for our administration to legislate further mass murder in the name of the war on Islamofascism to wake everyone up to our inalienable right as a civilized nation to defend ourselves from possible future "what if" scenarios.

GZ wants to attack Iran for Israel's sake. I would think this should be done for America's sake-- so I agree with GZ on the means, just not the ends.

It is apparent that 9-11 and the iraq invasion didn't wake our country up. Maybe it inevitable that there needs to be yet another stupid and futile gesture-- i.e. an attack on Iran, to set this country on an inescapable course to self-correction and repairing itself. Currently, even if Iran was'nt attacked, due to the complacency and confusion of many in this country, I don't think this self-correction could happen through petitioning our government representatives alone. Of course I used to see it differently, perhaps my eyes were colored against foereign interventionism by my short time spent in the serivce in Lebanon, but I was so much older then and younger than that now.

So in agreeeing with GZ that we should attack Iran, I have a hope. It would be my hope that the chaos and insanity that followed such an attack would spur people in this nation to take things into their own hands to make it a better country and to restore it to a constitutionally based republic, as our forefathers intended.

"The point some of us are trying to make is that maybe its time to recognize that what we are doing is not working. The time has come to put down the sabers. The time has come to let reason have a chance to work."

Who's the blind fool ?

You obviously know very little history.

"The First Barbary War (1801 - 1805), also known as the Barbary Coast War or the Tripolitan War, was the first of two wars fought between the United States of America and the North African states known collectively as the Barbary States. These were the independent Sultanate of Morocco, and the three Regencies of Algiers, Tunis, and Tripoli, which were quasi-independent entities nominally belonging to the Ottoman Empire.

"The American envoy (sounding an awful lot like YOU) inquiring "concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury", the Moroccan ambassador replied:

It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once.

So how do you figure?
You really believe this had anything to do with US foreign policy or Israel?

Open your eyes.

This has all been happening for centuries with an occasional time out that in some instances might last a few generations but sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, will start up again all with exactly the same goal and has nothing whatsoever to do with any of what you claim.

Its got all to do with religion and specifically the spread of Islam.

and the link for above is

en.wikipedia.org

"It was written in their Koran'

He-he, which, being a bunch of illiterate Barbary Pirates, the never bothered to read. Yo-ho-ho and a bottle of Zamzam!

Personally, I think the world would be a better place with more barbary pirates with peglegs going around the high seas shouting in arabic, "Y'Allah, Arrrggh, matey!!!".

Don't worry, Jimmy Carter will negotiate with them and get them to give them up!

GZ, what can I say? 200 years ago North African Pirates used the Koran to justify piracy so it must follow that the square root of green is spaghetti. I think maybe you missed a few dots on your connect the dots coloring book.

Has anyone aside from me accused you of being presumptuous BEE?

Why would these Pirates need to read their Koran when their Imams could just as easily have told them what was in it?

Or perhaps they all grew up spending time in Madrass type schools where they all learned their holy books by memorizing each word. The teaching style of those schools seems like it would be straight out of the 17th century or even older ....

Point is that you must admit that many many who can't read a word, still know every word of their respective Holy book ... perhaps even pirates yes?

Oh Salaryman ... being defensive just because you were busted being too quick on the draw with one of the usual leftie nonsensical and false soundbites is pretty lame don't you think?


Lets review shall we ?

Your initial point was essentially the usual liberal clap trap rant that everything in the ME ie Iran is either America's or Israel's fault.

I merely pointed out that this sort of belligerent behavior on the part of the Muslims has been going on for hundreds of years long before there was a US foreign policy or an Israel.

Next time when you want to play with the adults my friend, just remember someone may actually know what they're talking about and faking it with soundbites just won't cut it.

"Has anyone aside from me accused you of being presumptuous BEE?"

Yes. Sergeant Harrison back in basics.

Has anyone ever accused you of having a sense of humor?

"Point is that you must admit that many many who can't read a word, still know every word of their respective Holy book ... perhaps even pirates yes?"

gz

:) reason with me my friend

if they read the koran they would know that agression is not allowed... only defense

the extremists of today don't even know this

they know a few paragraphs and snipits here and there

and this i know from experience talking to many many many muslims

even the so called "imams" hate talking to me cause i tell them they are full of shit, and half what they say they are making up.

as a small example.. they say music is "haraam"

wtf!! no where in any of the koran and hadith does it say this... and when you tell them this, they say, i don't want to argue and walk away...

my generation and the next are making sure these ignorant idiots don't have any power

at least here in the usa we're doing our best

and this will spread as the level of education goes up.


Klifford my friend,
if I could make a wish that I know would come true, it would be that there were at least ten million more of YOU ...

From everything I've ever read from you, you are the very definition of a person who reasons.

By the way, for what its worth, I often spend my free time reasoning with many on a forum called www.mepeace.org which are people from both the Arab and Israeli side as well as those who just have an interest in finding a peaceful solution to that issue. We choose topics that are often contentious and then both sides go at it but all the while trying to find common ground. There are some very interesting people there from all over the region and of course Europe and the US but most from the ME

It seems to be Kliff, that like you, I'm mostly here on this forum now after many years, to set straight those outrageous notions that if not challenged would probably be taken as fact ...
I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

Anyway ...

Peace my friend

GZ, Shall I point out example of belligerence by non Muslims. I mean seriously, that is the crux of your argument 200 years ago pirates used the Koran to justify piracy so all Muslims are mad dog killers? I assume you are Jewish yes? Shall we talk about the mythical genocides the Hebrews committed in the land of Canaan? Would it be fair to discus how the Israeli state came to be? All you can come up with is trying to put me in some idealogical box and misrepresent my posts. Then claim that you have scored some point of debate simply by declaring it so? I am sure we can go point counter-point forever. And what would be the point? You will only see what you want. You will twist everything to fit your warped view of reality. So what is the point?

Salaryman ...

My "warped view of reality" ?

Yeah right ...
go back and read your own posts and then say that.

You have a bad case of "projectionitus" my friend

"warped" at least in my dictionary, is believing that Iran is some benign peaceful misunderstood country who's only crime is how badly the've allowed their President to be misquoted.

Do I have that right Sal?

Is that what you'd like everyone reading this to buy?

Why is it relevant if I'm Jewish?
You think my opinions are solely dictated by whether I'm a Jew or not?
You don't believe my intellect might have something to do with how I reason and what i conclude?

What an ass you are

In fact, why are you trying to make this an argument about "Jews", "Hebrews" "Canaan" all mentioned in your last post, at all?

Its about Iran and 6,000 centrifuges and what that means to the region, and the rest of the world.

AND should you want to discuss Israel's origin Sal ... start another thread or wait until one comes about and I'll happily discuss it with you there.

"In his most provocative anti-US speech to date, Iran's president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad raised doubts about whether al Qaeda's Sept. 11, 2001 attack on New York actually took place. He was addressing Iran's Nuclear Technology day, April 8, DEBKAfile's Iranian sources report. He went on to ask why the US had never released the names of the thousands of dead in the Trade Center attacks and how the most advanced security, intelligence and tracking devices in the world had failed to detect the hijackers' planes before they struck the two New York towers.

Ahmadinejad is famous also for denying the Nazi Holocaust.

Announcing earlier that Iran had begun installing 6,000 new advanced (P2) centrifuges for uranium enrichment at Natanz, the Iranian president claimed his country's nuclear program had passed the point of no-return technologically and politically.

America is disintegrating politically, militarily and economically, according to Ahmadinejad, who boasted that Iran's nuclear achievement is a turning-point in history that will change the international order prevailing since World War II.

He asked why everyone jumps on Iran's nuclear program when "a band of international pirates has stores crammed with nuclear bombs."

"Iran is a nuclear country and if you continue your mischief, Iran will tomorrow conquer higher summits," Ahmadinejad told Western countries in a live televised speech in the holy city of Mashhad, northwest Iran.

"It will punch you (the West) in the mouth," he told thousands of people gathered in the country's holiest shrine, who responded with chants of "Death to America".

The dr left will ignore all threats, and even side with him; America and the WEST IS THE PROBLEM HERE HEH?

I think we should let Israel and Iran destroy eachother.

Step back and watch it happen.

2 thorns removed from our side with ZERO effort.

Let's go. Get that program started!!!!!

It cannot end soon enough.

I am tired of watching 2 these kids in the sandbox.

GET IT OVER WITH

Isn't this the same asshole who kept saying that the west just needed to give iran time to negotiate???

Now he's pulling a Kruschev, I'd like to hear from danni do#che with comments knowing her love for AchmedbagOshit

The problem it seems to me MP, is what happens if Israel doesn't hit Tehran.

Lets roll forward and play out one scenario.

Iran in fact announces its nuclear and nothing changes.

At some point when they want to go public for all that prestige that will come to them as a result of standing up to the superpower and its little Satan superpower, they direct Hezbollah to raise tension at the Israeli border. Tensions rise, perhaps Israel attacks due to a cross border kidnapping of one of its soldiers similar to what happened last summer, and next thing you see is TV images on al Jazeera of shiny Iranian missiles rolling through Tehran while Iran announces to the world that because of some ginned up threat, its their right and obligation to protect and defend their country and so unlike Israel, they admit to the world that they have nuclear weapons.

Another words the premise will be "We would never have done it if only the Israelis wouldn't have done that blah blah "

You don't think the world will change as a result MP? You think all of this is going on in some void where it won't impact on Americans and everyone else in the world ?

Are you observing it's impact on the "moderate" Arab countries as this unfolds?
How about the primary oil producers?
Have you read some of what they've said about all of this?

First, its going to start an arms race and don't even try to make the argument that Israel having nukes for the last 35 years has anything to do with the sudden desire of Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Libya and a few others to go nuclear now. That was never a very well kept secret. But they know the Israelis are responsible enough not to want to use nukes given how they were almost history in 1973 and still didn't reach for their nukes.

You think the same would be true of any of the Arab regimes MP?

Its all about Iran going nuclear.

And if that's not good enough for you. How's nuclear blackmail sound to you? Or the sound of spiking energy prices? Or the rocket like ascendancy of Russia thanks to the windfall they'll collect from that very very expensive oil thanks to world prices skyrocketing.

And then there's the aspect of how stable do you believe ALL those Arab countries are with nukes of their own? Imagine having to keep an eye on the many new possibilities al Queda will have. They could destabilize any number of countries and potentially end up with a nuclear arsenal ...

its endless the sort of chaos that Iran having a nuke will cause. Go back and read about the Iranian Islamic revolution and what they believe. How they see their revolution and what they believe about its export.

Well think of it guys, if there was a Democrat President, what would he do? He would negotiate with them, sign a deal, then do 2 nuclear powerplants from us in their country!

Wait, Clinton did that with Korea.

So please dems, please tell your congressmen to push a liberal platform of appeasement, and just freaking BUILD 2 nuke plants in IRAN on taxpayers money.

Thats the democrat way! Just ask Bill Clinton!

Kuma

reading this thread makes me nervous. ALl I can think about is that transport us all back to the late 1930"s WITH internet....(thanks al!)
and what would each of us be saying and just replace iran with nazi germany.
it worries me because I think we would be reading mostly the same statements. and I am not calling anyone a nazi or anything of the sort.
I just think that each of you here who is liberal would be thrilled at chamberlain and the quote would be REAL BIG AND ON TOP OF THE PAGE.....

HITLER PROMISES TO LEAVE EUROPE ALONE. THE BUILDUP IS FOR PEACEFULL MEANS ONLY. Chamberlain returns home a hero.


DAMN>......LOOKY LOOKY LOOKY
only a few spots with spaces.....WOW..........
I think I done got me some of thet goll darned learnin.....



" (Hezbollah's) decision to cross Israel's border to kidnap Israeli soldiers led to a war which cost Lebanon a great deal of their infrastructure and a substantial number of Lebanese civilians."

Yep and Israel was crossing the Lebanese border DAILY at the time.

I'll think I'll give this poster's 'insightful' observations a pass in the future.



" (Hezbollah's) decision to cross Israel's border to kidnap Israeli soldiers led to a war which cost Lebanon a great deal of their infrastructure and a substantial number of Lebanese civilians."

Yep and Israel was crossing the Lebanese border DAILY at the time.

I'll think I'll give this poster's 'insightful' observations a pass in the future.

The country with the 2nd largest reserve of petroleum does not NEED nuclear energy. Nut given the hatefulness of its leadership, and its hatred of Jews and others, it sure wants to have nuke weps. But this "American Enterprise Institute" led administration has no clue how to work through the details of diplomacy and strategery. Where are the smart national security experts that the West needs to prevail over the multitude of threats? Certainly not in the senior seats of the NSC>

First, its going to start an arms race and don't even try to make the argument that Israel having nukes for the last 35 years has anything to do with the sudden desire of Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Libya and a few others to go nuclear now. That was never a very well kept secret. But they know the Israelis are responsible enough not to want to use nukes given how they were almost history in 1973 and still didn't reach for their nukes.

You think the same would be true of any of the Arab regimes MP?


Still NOT seeing any mention of the United States, so I don't fucking care.

Fight your own battles. Leave America and Americans out of it, and if Israel and Iran disappear, I am NOT going to shed a single tear.

Israel = I don't Give Flying Fuck

I don't care if it ever existed in the first place.

I REALLY DO NOT FUCKING CARE SO STOP ASKING ME TO!

The Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, also Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT or NNPT) is an international treaty to limit the spread of nuclear weapons, opened for signature on July 1, 1968. There are currently 189 countries party to the treaty, five of which have nuclear weapons: the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Russia, and the People's Republic of China (the permanent members of the UN Security Council).

Only four nations are not signatories: India, Israel, Pakistan and North Korea. India and Pakistan both possess and have openly tested nuclear bombs. Israel has had a policy of opacity regarding its own nuclear weapons program.
North Korea ratified the treaty, violated it, and later withdrew.

{snip}

Three states--India, Israel, and Pakistan--have declined to sign the treaty. India and Pakistan are confirmed nuclear powers, and Israel has a long-standing policy of deliberate ambiguity.

{snip}

Iran is a signatory state of the NPT and has recently (as of 2006) resumed development of a uranium enrichment program. The Iranian government asserts that this enrichment program is part of its civilian nuclear energy program, which is permitted under Article IV of the NPT. However, Iran violated its NPT safeguards agreement by pursuing uranium enrichment in secret, after which the United Nations Security Council passed a resolution ordering Iran to suspend its enrichment-related activity. The United States and some members of the European Union have accused Iran of using this program to help covertly develop nuclear weapons, which would be in violation of article II of the NPT. Iran remains under investigation by the International Atomic Energy Agency.

In November 2003 IAEA Director General Mohamed ElBaradei reported that Iran had repeatedly and over an extended period failed to meet with its safeguards obligations, including by failing to declare its uranium enrichment program. After nearly two years of diplomatic efforts led by France, Germany and the UK, in September 2005, the IAEA Board of Governors, acting under Article XII.C of the IAEA Statute, found that these failures constituted non-compliance with the IAEA safeguards agreement, not the NPT itself.

Source:

en.wikipedia.org

maybe we could find some new manpower in uganda to fight this one

"So please dems, please tell your congressmen to push a liberal platform of appeasement, and just freaking BUILD 2 nuke plants in IRAN on taxpayers money.
Thats the democrat way! Just ask Bill Clinton!"

Or is it the Republican way?

It was the Ford administration, which had many of the same key players as this Bush administration including Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Kissinger, who offered Iran the chance to buy reactors and a reprocessing plant. The reasoning for this was that Iran needed nuclear power to meet their day to day energy needs so as to free up the oil for export.

It was the Carter administration that shelved the plan.

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