Thank you Senator Obvious.

"Violence has come down, but the Iraqis have not come together."


They need a copy of the Kama Sutra.

Circle jerk!

Biden is right.

Spud has a lot of respect for Joe Biden.

Spud doesn't say that a lot about folks in DC.

He's the straight talker that McCain only pretends to be. Spud would like to see Joe as either Obama's Veep or SecDef or SecState.

The political will to crush their own people's will via death squads and torture shops a'la Pinochet and the Shah of Iran et al in order to become a puppet/client regime controlled by DC via the CIA is simply not in the cards here. Even ultimate economic control through the World Bank/ IMF is not entirely certain.

The resistance to the American occupation is simply too fierce and deep rooted for that to happen. Iraqi nationalists of the Shia variety are in cahoots with Iran and now they are not alone in their attempts to dislodge the foreign boot from their throat.

The Sunnis tried engaging Wahabbist fuckstick Al Quaeda foreign fighters in their attempts to consolidate a new power base but the AQ overstayed their welcome and proved too counter-productive and are largely gone now.

Bottom line is the Iraqis are reluctant to make official the American occupation by signing "Profit sharing agreements" for their oil fields which will officially turn over once and for all a once nationalised resource to Western based Big Oil concerns. This was, of course, beyond the Rah Rah Rhetoric of the right the raison d'etre fer the entire invasion. The Iraqis know this even as the western MSM denies it.

The surge never stood a realistic chance of working beyond the military war of attrition sense.

Anybody with half a brain saw this fact before the "Surge is working" rhetoric even began.

See through the lies to percieve the truth or go on chasing chimeras.

Yer choice.

Choose well.

Be Well.

If someone wants to point fingers, point them at the pols in both countries... not the military.

Posted by OohRah


well, DUH... I don't think it was the military who made the decision for the surge. CNN is reporting that the Iraqi government is protesting the renewal of the blackwater contract. I don't think the military made this decision either. I also don't recall anyone criticizing the military. If anything, they are doing an admirable job considering the multiple extended tours, shortage of just about everything and having to worry about two different wars.

Everything, every aspect of the last five years US policy in Iraq has been a failure. The troops tried to do what was asked of them. They should never have been asked to do any of it.

The US in Iraq makes the US in Vietnam almost sensible.

It is a shameful and disgraceful waste of our lives, our reputation and our values. And couldn't we have spent a trillion dollars at home? No, because they would not have been made available. Only for war!

Nope OohRah the fault rests squarely with Dubya and those who continually support this endeavour. They are the pones at fault for this because they lacked the courage to dissent when their Country needed them the most. Suck it upBushites You got what You wanted now LIVE WITH IT.

Larry Mohr

That doesn't mean the buildup of troops was a failure. The troops have done their job. If someone wants to point fingers, point them at the pols in both countries... not the military.
~OOHRAH


For an intelligent guy how can you so clearly not get it?

How on this blue globe did you see Biden's words as an indictment of the military....

That doesn't mean the buildup of troops was a failure.

~Ooh-Rah

The build up was a bad idea from the get go just as the entire war was.

The troops have done their job.

More than done their jobs. They have, fer the most part, gone above and beyond wot they were tasked to do. Freakin' Sisyphus himself would balk at their task.

If someone wants to point fingers, point them at the pols in both countries... not the military.

Spud got nothing but respect fer folks in uniform who do their jobs under almost impossible odds.

Spud is no pointy finger at them.

The BushCo Pols who sent them in there w/o sufficient translators, a plan to win the peace, an exit strategy or adequate vehicles, body armour and the like?

Those guys Spud points exactly one finger at.

Not at so much "at" as "up".

The middle one.

Be Well.

the military did not acomplish the mission they were given. simple matter of fact.

I think I was fair by indicating there's plenty of blame to go around for pols on both sides, but I'd challenge anyone to credibly show how our military hasn't performed well.


So it was just a right wing Strawman as opposed to an honest misread.

Got ya..

You gotta understand Zap people like OohRah can't swallow the truth so they love shiftingthe blame to nonresponsible parties. It never fails with their ilk. Had the Illegal Iraq War done good they woud be rubbing our noses in it. Now it's gone to shit since day one they want to wash their bloody hands of the whole shebang. Never fails with the righty tighties. They screw up it's eveyone elses fault but their own. Typical of them I am afraid.

Larry Mohr

....but I'd challenge anyone to credibly show how our military hasn't performed well.


Posted by OohRah


Who said that??????

You are blaming the pols in Iraq for the mess which they never asked for to begin with. How can You sit there and blame the victims for Your eggregious behavior OohRah???? THAT is Precisely what You are doing when You blame both sides. Blaming the victim and blaming the perp.

Larry Mohr

I honestly don't know what happens if/when these sides refuse to get along. That is a real option and one which has never been sufficiently reasoned out that I can tell. But for anyone to continue to beat the dead horse of "why did we go" doesn't really contribute to the solution.

'Why did we go' can't be ignored. Especially with the the same individuals who couldn't foresee quagmire still in office and still rattling sabers.

As for where do we go from here it was obvious before we invaded that separating Iraq from a dictator would mean the end of Iraq. It will split into patrician districts.

All the kings horses and all the kings troops can't put Iraq together again. It's the kings fault not the troops.

Bush the lessor should have listened to his Dad.

Sucks to be a Bushite now doesn't it OohRah?? Why can't You guys who supported this mess go over there and fix Your fuck ups?? Why can't You do the dirty work that You are asking the Military to do. You want it fixed OohRah then YOU FIX IT.


Larry Mohr

It reminds me of nagging TV characters who continue to bring up years old faults as rationale for holding moral superiority over their spouse. At some point you need to realize you (as an American) are as much a part of this whole thing as the rest of us and work toward a solution which is best for Iraq, the US, and the region. You can choose to be a participant or a bystander booing from the sidelines.

Posted by OohRah at 2008-04-05 06:05 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag:

No way OohRah I am not a part of this so don't blame Me for it or ask that I solve Your problems. I just love how You swinging dicks who fawned over Dubya now want everyone to fix Your fuck ups. If that ain't the heigth of immaturity I don't know what is. My Hands are Not Bloody OohRah. I just love how You won't own up to Your messes. I make plenty of messes of My own. AIN'T MY RESPONSIBILITY AIN'T MY PROBLEM.

Larry Mohr

We Pull out and save our Countryfolk OohRah. Thats what I would do.

Larry Mohr

Gd You Bushites really fucking disgust Me at times. Want to shit the responsibility upon the dissentes when we didn't support the actions. Got to love THAT.

Larry Mohr

However, arguing/debating about why the barn door was left open while the horses are running to the next county accomplishes little...
~OOHRAH

If Bush wasn't still claiming victory and more importantly threatening Iran I would be in partial agreement.

So if it's a 'gotcha' your side wants, you've got it

As for the gotcha I do not want a continuation of this travesty. As such I would be driving Bush and McSame nose into the shit of Iraq until after the November election.

The buildup has caused delay in Iraq accepting responsibility for their destiny. Staying can't fix Iraq only the Iraqis can decide their destiny.

And it might not be free economic commerce for the world.

As a liberal, I have to disagree.
The surge isn't a failure.
But, neither is it a success.

Firstly, there is no doubt that overall violence is down, especially in the last 6 months. Whether that will stay true or not, is too early to tell.
In three years, we could maybe say it is a success. But by then, the US may well be bankrupt due to the cost of the war.

Secondly, the surge of troops is not by far the only reason for the decrease in violence. Major contributing factors seem to be: building the Baghdad (Berlin II) Wall around the green Zone, the imposition of curfews on an everyday basis, the forced checkpoints throughout the city, the exodus from Iraq of (five million? some help here, please) of Iraq's citizens, and of course, the bribing of the very people who are angry at us.

Thirdly, the Bush administration fails in its labeling of propaganda. According to Bush/Cheney/Perino, any person who fights the US is Al-Qaeda. How do they know this? Do the dead identify themselves with a t-shirt that reads "Al-Qaeda here!"? Do the captured raise their hands and say "You got me, I'm Al-Qaeda"? Or do we simply torture them? "...yep, he said he was AQ during enhanced interrogation."

Finally, do we really think we can afford to ignore Afghanistan, Pakistan, North Korea, and Russia forever? What about the hundreds of millions of Muslims in other countries that didn't attack us? Will we invade them too and force them into a government they have never known? If so, when? And with what army?

Too many questions have gotten ignored by the Bush Administration, and unfortunately, by the press, who continue to shirk their duty to ask hard questions.

take the anytime soon out of settle their differences

Sorry had to get grundy. On Topic How many American deaths will quench the rights thirst for blood?? 5,000 10,000?? When will they sacrifice their bloody egos and say enough is enough OohRah?? Shall we go another 58,000?? I am sure a stone mason would just love the business for an Iraqi veterans memorial wall. So pray tell OohRah how many more must die before You get Your blood thirst quenched??

Larry Mohr

Man, this guy should run for president! Everyone would vote for him. lmao

We're all Americans. Seeing our way through a responsible solution together seems to be the mature way through this. Your thoughts?

Posted by OohRah at
2008-04-05 06:32 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag:

See that's just it I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE. To want a person thatdid not supportthe actions is Immatuirity at it's finest. What You are in affect saying. I OohRah failed to live upto My responsibility for the support of an action so I am going to shift that burdon upon the ones who did not support it. No Way OohRah no how can You expect the ones who did not support the actions clean up afcter You OohRah. Just like a righty. They are all aokay until things go south then they look to anyone and everyne to bail them out. When I got locked up noboy spent time for Me I did it my own self. Suck it u OohRah go and clean u Your own mess. I HAVE HAD TO.

Larry Mohr

"He's the straight talker that McCain only pretends to be. Spud would like to see Joe as either Obama's Veep or SecDef or SecState."

as would i spud... absolutely.
i still believe biden was the best of the bunch for the dems. sad that the media only wanted to focus on the two we have left.
vp for biden and i could vote for that ticket in spite of my reservations regarding obama.
the mccain decision should prove just as interesting.

all the best

Man, this guy should run for president! Everyone would vote for him. lmao

How's your guy Duncan Hunter doing these days?

KrispyBrainCells OWNED by Reinheit...ouch

We're all Americans. Seeing our way through a responsible solution together seems to be the mature way through this. Your thoughts?

~OOHRAH

The debacle of Iraq was was not for the sake of America. It was done for capitalism and commerce. The same reasons for moving jobs overseas.

Iraq was all about using US military power to further capitalist interests. If you need to wave a flag OOHRAH wave one with a golden dollar sign in a field of red.

Anybody with half a brain saw this fact before the "Surge is working" rhetoric even began.



Spud, remember you're talking to Republicans. The same guys who thought Bush wasn't an incompetent idiot. You need to get down to the one brain cell level to engage them. Half a brain is way above their pay grade.

Joe Biden makes a lot of sense here. If his logic
is carried to it's conclusion, we can see that the
problem in Iraq is the UNITED STATES. The fighting
continues because WE ARE THERE. Obama is right;
we need to leave ASAP. The Iraqi people will be
unified and there will be peace.

Biden for Obama's VP.

Be Well.

SKIP_WELLINGTON


BEEF WELLINGTON os more to the point!

Let's face facts. Bushco wanted to control and reap the profits from Iraq's Oil. They had a problem Saddam Hussein controlled the Oil so they needed to remove Saddam Hussein to gain that control but Bushco had a problem themselves they lacked muscle to do it on their own so they "Hired" the US Military to be that muscle. Now that shit has gone south so far they are trying to hold on while the getting is good. The ones who were the Cheerleaders in all of this don't know whether to shit or go blind so they are trying to offload a portion if not all of their culpability in this to the ones who didn't support it. They would rather not pay the piper when He calls. That is the crux of the whole shebang.

Larry Mohr

I wasn't the one who got us in this situation. Certainly not personally, nor was my party solely responsible. Monday morning quarterbacking is a natural tendency, yet it fails to address the ordeal at hand.

Posted by OohRah at 2008-04-05 08:39 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag:

First off I could care less about Memphis. I care about Bill Self wiping the floor with Roy Williams Face and I hope that He does. Secondly The Iraqis are going to fight it out until one side controls everything. It's how Saddam Hussein got to be leader after all. Thirdly You say You aren't the one personally responsible for getting into this mess IF You supported Dubya in the run up to the Iraq War You ARE Personally responsible for it just like everyone else who cheered Him on. It's NOT Monday Morning Quarterbacking when We remind You of the fact that We did not support it and declaring the ones who did are responsible to clean up their mess. I go out and blow away 10 people tonight and You cheer Me on aren't You just as guilty for their deaths as I am the one who pulled the trigger?? Yes You are for You didn't say that is wrong Larry You shouldn't do that.


Larry Mohr

What is or is not happening in Iraq is irrelevant to Joe Biden, he speaks to serve his political objective - becoming Secretary of State under an unlikely Obama administration.

Conditions in Iraq are 300% better than Joe Biden would hope, that is the happy truth.

Iraq is page three because the situation is so much better because of the troop surge that has succeeded.

That the surge has succeeded is a bitter pill for the liberal shill to swallow, ludicrous remarks by has been politicians are dismissed by the vast majority of the nation.

It will be a relief for the troops when the following words are spoken:

"I, John Sidney McCain III, do solemnly swear . . . "

"I, John Sidney McCain III, do solemnly swear . . . "

Does this fall into the same category as:

Or perhaps this category:

Hans, are you picking on Nostradumbass again?

"Hans, are you picking on Nostradumbass again?"

Guilty.

I plead guilty.

Hans

Hansel,

How charming, you have a much better memory of things I've written than I have of those things you have written.

Fact of the matter, aside from your obsession with me there is nothing that stands out.

I must have hurt you at some time in the past, so at least my time here hasn't been wasted.

Hans,

If you really want to have some fun, grab some of NostraBowa...plus ancestors, of course.

"...you have a much better memory of things..."

Of course I do.

You own your own words.

"...aside from your obsession with me there is nothing that stands out."

You mean aside from the fact that...

House stays GOP.

Senate stays GOP.

Zulu is obsessed with the thought that people here are obsessed with him... FF

Hey, what ever happened to the great civil war in iraq? Just didn't happen?

Spin away.

Zulu is in complete denial. I don't blame Him I would be in complete denial too at this point.

Larry Mohr

"Just didn't happen...."

I guess you were drunk last week.

"Spin away...."

What be the use? You'd have to be informed to get any of it.

NPR isn't communist any more?

bwhahahahahah Zulu is coocoo. Lordy have mercy upon the Bushites Souls. bwhahahahahah Gotta love it.

Larry Mohr

"Conditions in Iraq are 300% better...."

NPR say that? No matter. Word today is that al-Sadr stole most of those nifty war vehicles US taxpayers provided al-Maliki.

Which was easy to do, given so many of them were left unattended with keys in ignition while al-Maliki's men ran home.

'NPR isn't communist any more?'

NPR (National Proletariat Radio) has accepted the fact that BHO is going to lose.

November is going to be a great month.

Perhaps it will hurt less if you libs don't get your expectation levels up.

Or do, but stock up on plenty of Kleenex.

Zulu...never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers..."I,Barack Hussein Obama,do solemnly swear..."

"I,Barack Hussein Obama,do solemnly swear..."

The Surrendercrat convention in Denver is going to be so funny to watch.

Dear Hillary is going to take the party down with her, and I wish I had a front row seat. Guess Fox News will have to do.

1968 and 2008. History does repeat itself.

Zulu...never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers..."I,Barack Hussein Obama,do solemnly swear..."

Posted by American1st at 2008-04-05 10:08 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag:

That would be You Bushites now wouldn't it. bwhahahahah

Larry Mohr

"NPR has accepted the fact BHO is going to lose..."

That's what we used to call a lie.

"I, John Sidney McVeigh, do solemnly swear to turn every American aircraft carrier into a floating inferno just like I did to the Forrestal back in '67.

"November is going to be a great month."

Posted by zulu at 2008-04-05 10:08 PM

November, 2006?

I actually find myself curious---What do you think McCain would do differently about the war that Bush hasn't?

Just as the casual observer I am, he hasn't been left anything save holding on. That's a pretty sad place to be. I'm not convinced John is that stupid or bloodyminded.

So, in my opinion, if McCain gets the presidency, there will be a withdrawal from Iraq that won't be presented as such. Zulu will come back and tell us all how ballsy it all is, and thank God for Republicanism.

"What are the odds....?"

Well, Zulu, with you and Biden together, close to 100%.

The greatest problem facing Conservative bloggers is the target rich environment bequeathed to them by the pair of idiots that are the Democrat Presidential Candidates.

Sniper fire, insane pastors, promises to raise taxes, socialized medicine, the list goes on and on.

It's 3 O'clock in the morning and a phone rings . . .

How funny.

Sorry you won't respond to my question. Not really interested in the war, are you? That's pretty much always the case when I visit red state blogs.

Mostly what neos are interested in regards to the war is that no one have an opinion about it other than themselves.

I for one am glad the idiots on the right make such a big deal out of Obama's middle name - Hussein

King Abdullah Hussein of Jordan is a sharp, pro-Western ME leader and ally of the U.S. as was his father. He and Bashir Assad of Syria are two of the new crop of young, pragmatic ME leaders who can help us achieve much needed better ME relations once the current idiot is out of the White House.

How's your guy Duncan Hunter doing these days?

Posted by reinheitsgebot

If Duncan Hunter married John Kerry's wife and took HER name, he would be Duncan Heinz!

Anyone who thiks that this mess in Iraq is going well just needs to answer a few questions on what quality of life means to them:

1..Your Country is paying both sides to try to keep the Peace, yes our Country is paying off Both Sides....
2..Your town or Village where ever you live has a Curfew every day of the week...
3...Your car is forbidden on the Streets, in some parts of Town at all hours of the day....
4..You have Electricity maybe 4 to 8 hours a day...
5..You have to drink water that is unclean so you buy potable water for your children to drink...
6..An now we find out that our weapons an spare parts are being used to help Kill our soldiers...


So you think that the Surge is working, ARE YOU FUCKING IDIOTS FOR REAL?????

All I can say is "Sidney"??? No way, no way, no way.

Seriously, I CANT WAIT for the Democrats to own the White House, the Senate, and the House. Why? Because when they do, and then they change their position on Iraq, again, and DON'T immediately withdraw its going to show the dems true colors. Do anything, say anything to get power. Mean none of what they say. No backbone.

And then we will STEAMROLL you in the following election when half your party turns against you.

Kuma

Hmmmmm

The NeoCons finally got the WH and Congress. Made a COMPLETE fucking mess of everything they touched. Did everything they said they wouldn't. Too bad NeoCons aren't conservatives. In fact, real conservatives can't stand the sight of them.

Doubled the national budget
Doubled the national debt
Started an unprovoked war costing us lives and national treasure
Acted like children

It'll take a generation for the GOP to ever get complete control of our government again if they ever do.

Surveys over the last couple of years show 35 and under voters are overwhelmingly Democrat.

GOP ID trails DEM by 11 points.

Good riddance!!!

Joe Biden is an asswipe.

If Spud luf him soo much then why Spud not support his miserable failure of a presidential run.

Yes I could have forcast failure fer his presidential campaign even before it happened.

First off he should have known no one wanted his whiny ass to be potus. Obviously he no have talent fer readin tea leaves.

Did Biden even get a single delegate??

Spud luffs this sorry sack of shit?? Why? Straight shooter?

Gees he could shoot himself in the ass if he sat on a gun. However, he does know how to shoot off his mouth!

Crackpipejunkie(Obama on cocaine)

americans have an ace in the hole with sen biden
as chairman of the foreign relations committee

"Do anything, say anything to get power. Mean none of what they say. No backbone.""

Er....the Deciderer told us he didn't believe in nation building didn't he??? It honestly seems lately that rants by righties tend to accuse the left of precisely what they themselves are guilty of.

"Do anything, say anything to get power. Mean none of what they say. No backbone.""

Er....the Deciderer told us he didn't believe in nation building didn't he??? It honestly seems lately that rants by righties tend to accuse the left of precisely what they themselves are guilty of.

Biden is a tool and a laghing stock. Anyone who takes him seriously is a fool.

"Anyone who takes him seriously is a fool...."

Did you take Bush seriously? If so, how many years did you allow others to laugh at you?

Zed, Nice try at deflection. We are talking about Biden.

BTW, I think Bush is a tool also. Try to stay on subject.

Joe Biden is an asswipe.

CRACKPIPEJUNKIE

And yet he's been a Senator for 30 years and you're a crack junkie who hasn't pawned his computer yet LOL

And yet we voted Bush to a second term. What is your point here crakhead?

So like our High Intelligence President keeps telling us and now echoed by his sidekick and Presidential hopeful John McCain...

"We will be victorious in Iraq!! We will WIN...WIN..WIN...WIN...WIN !!!.... Because in America we are winners!! and every American wants a winner !!!

No matter the cost.. no matter the dead and wounded...
no matter the misery and destruction. Our President knows this has all been worth it folks because....If we don't fight and win in Iraq... they will follow us home and kill us all here in America.

There is only one major flaw with Bushes thinking and you would think John McCain would know it better than anyone.

"WE DIDN'T WIN IN VIETNAM...WE LOST"

Communism defeated freedom and democracy weather we like it or not. South Vietnam no longer exists as a country.

Now applying the above logic and keeping in mind we killed nearly 1,000,000 VietCong and enemy combatants during the Vietnam War... You would think that if anyone wanted to take revenge on us and follow us home for killing so many of them... Men, Women and children... It would have been the Vietnameze people.

But in reality after the war they sent us one simple message. "GET THE FUCK OUT OF OUR COUNTRY AND STAY OUT"

And These dumb fucking assholes Republican idiots can't get it thru their ignorant sculls and send innocent young American men and women to their deaths for it.

We 'won' the war in 2003. Playing policeman wasn't supposed to be part of the deal.

....and your dems have done what? NOt a fucking thing. Especially what they said they were going to do.

"You would think that if anyone wanted to take revenge on us and follow us home for killing so many of them... Men, Women and children... It would have been the Vietnameze people."

The Vietnamese are not radical religious zealots interested in spreading their religion across the world. The Taliban, Al Quaeda, Hezbollah et al ARE. Radical Islam has been doing it and attempting to do it for centuries. It's not valid to compare the two.

Joe, I agree completely! So that means it's time to get them out and you're going to spearhead the effort, right?

Oh wait...you're not?

THEN SHUT THE FUCK UP DICKHEAD. You guys lead the league in do-nothing windbags.

The Vietnamese are not radical religious zealots interested in spreading their religion across the world. The Taliban, Al Quaeda, Hezbollah et al ARE. Radical Islam has been doing it and attempting to do it for centuries. It's not valid to compare the two.

Posted by jestgettinalong at 2008-04-07 09:58 AM

And Christians haven' tried to spread the same thing!!! Ever hear of Hernado Cortez killing Aztecs by the 100's of thousands in the name of Christianity?...The Crusades???...The Reformation??? Catholics burning heretics at the stake???

Wake up man to the brainwashing pal !! 99% of all the people in the world really only want one thing in life....to live and let live with a reasonable degree quality to their lives. Yes Tim McVeighs do exist and Muslim extremist do exist...but these individuals are as few as hairs on a bald mans head.

Therefore !!!

I'm still for "GETTING THE FUCK OUT OF THEIR COUNTRY and STAYING OUT IN THEIR FUCKING BUSINESS"....and I assure you...they won't follow us home.

biden, hillary and the friggin coon obama have no right to question General Petraeus, They are not even qualified to shine his combat boots. They should be answering questions from him as to why they support this Countries Enemies. They are so fucking stupid.