i was pondering some joke about mission accomplished or something along those lines.
happy easter or a sarcastic dropping.
4,000... it's only a number, right? not terribly different from 3,996 or what have you.

but on this day this number serves as a reminder that this war is still costing us lives.
money, too, though that is less important on a holy day.
more sadness from my pov as there are still those who support this war and all that it stands for... whatever that may be.
and even more as i hear that bright minds say that it might sound like the right thing to do to get out... but powell said it best.
'we broke it, we bought it.'
as wrong as this thing was and still is, can we pick up and leave the country in a clusterfuck?
vultures and such would move in before the dust clears and take things over...
meaning, of course, that we'd have to go back in.
the harm this president has done is beyond measure
and we can't see the light at the end of the tunnel by any stretch of the imagination.

all the best

Sad sad day. Following 1600 other sad sad days.

Don't give these bastards half a chance or they will goo for 8000.

Bush/Cheney-Please resign and or see a psychiatrist and do this country the good that you can.

We need our country back. Until we get the warrior caste out of the White House the notion of a free country is pure fantasy. I know the why-do-you-traitors-hate- America crowd may have a field day, but I for one am NOT willing to go for 4,000 more. We have ceased being a democracy, and we have long ceased having any input whatsoever into how this nation is run. herm

Bush/Cheney have harmed this country beyond psychiatry's dimensions.

While time has gone forward, as it does, they have turned back the clock of enlightenment by at least double the years they have been in office.

Taking 4000 and then more lives along the way, plus the thousands of maimed and affected mentally and physically by these guys' irrational and selfish policies is beyond measure.

And these guys have the nerve to call themselves agents of God Almighty.

"Until we get the warrior caste out of the White House"

Problem with that statement....none of them actually were warriors. They're all a bunch of cowards. Fuck Bush, fuck Cheney, fuck 'em all.

It's just a comma. What ever the fuck that means.

Sorry Sense.

Didn't see you had posted a thread on this already.

Spud'll just C&P the post he just made on the thread he just put up here.

Be Well.

An IED goes off in the southern part of Baghdad.

4 U.S. Servicemen lose their lives.

Another milestone, another gravestone, another millstone.

Someone once sed that a single death was a tragedy but that a million deaths were a statistic.

We have a new total.

Let's play the numbers game.

5 years in Iraq.

4,000 U.S. Dead.

3 Trillion US dollars the estimated cost in treasure.

Too many Iraqi dead to even count properly but surely in the 100s of thousands.

4 Million Iraqis have fled their homes.

2 Million now live outside the country.

2 Million are internally displaced and living hand to mouth.

Gas was 1.73 a gallon when the US invaded.

Gas in now 4.00 a gallon.

Infant mortality rate is up in Iraq.

All of these numbers mean something.

All of these people were someone.

Brothers, sisters, husbands, wives, mothers, fathers, uncles, aunts, cousins, friends, all lives cut short.

Threads plucked from the weave of life.

Unravelled, undone.

Spud won't go into another blistering diatribe against this war as he has done many times since before the first boot hit the ground in Iraq.

Spud is too sad fer that right now.

Spud will let the numbers speak for themselves.

RIP.

Thoughts and prayers to family, friends and all affected by these losses.

Be Well.

Fuck George Bush and Fuck his war.

So?

There is an editorial in todays Charlotte Observer from a guy who had the balls to drag out the old "we're still in Korea, so this is nothing" argument. He even went so far as to mention that we have been "fighting the KKK...an insurgent group from the Civil War." I couldn't believe what I was reading.

I guess there still is that 19%.

A sad milestone... Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Congress made a lot of mistakes that in part lead up to this day... Now that a lot of those mistakes have been corrected to flee from Iraq and abandon all we have fought for would mean these deaths were for nothing. Things have turned in Iraq... let them finish as quickly as possible then bring them home...

"fighting the KKK...an insurgent group from the Civil War."

That's a ballsy position to take... inaccurate to say the least, but ballsy none the less.

rob pretending he is a reasonable human being.

truth pretending he has something to offer...

Besides phoney outrage of course...

I just love the faux concern.

let them finish as quickly as possible then bring them home...

If "as quickly as possible" means 5 more years and 4,000 more lives, is it worth it?

A sad milestone...(FUCK THE SUNNIS) Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Congress made a lot of mistakes that in part lead up to this day (BUSH CHENEY ADMIT NO MISTAKES-THEIR ACTIONS ALONE HAVE LEAD TO THIS DAY)... Now that a lot of those mistakes (AND MAKING ALL SORTS OF NEW ONES-ARE YOU HAPPY WE ARE FUNDING IRAQI SUNNI MILITIAS?) have been corrected (CHANGING PANTS ON THE CORPSE) to flee from Iraq (REDEPLOY) and abandon all we have fought for (WMD? LINKS TO AQ? OR MORE TRUTHFULLY OIL?) would mean these deaths were for nothing (SILLY NONSENSICAL RHETHORIC). Things have turned in Iraq (CIRCLES TURN ALL THE TIME BUT GET YOU NOWHERE)... let them finish as quickly as possible then bring them home...(THERE IS NO FINISH)

THEY WONT BE COMING HOME, IRAQ GET USED TO IT>

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

Righties are the masters of fauxrage, just give em a brain dead woman and all the fauxrage in the world will flow from their hate encrusted lips.

I just love the faux concern.

Is concern for a brother, two uncles and a best friend on the ground in Iraq faux concern?

I don't speak much on the aggression in Iraq except to point out that I didn't agree with it from the beginning (it seemed prudent to go after Bin Laden not Hussein), but after hearing more and more from family members and friends who are deployed, the more I think it is time to hand control back over to the Iraqi government. We are obligated to assist the new government as much as possible, but we need to reduce our presence there.

FUCK THE SUNNIS

I never said that...

BUSH CHENEY ADMIT NO MISTAKES-THEIR ACTIONS ALONE HAVE LEAD TO THIS DAY

The "surge" is an admission of mistakes.

Righties are the masters of fauxrage

Maybe in the past that was true, but after your 9:46 post you have taken the title...

FUCK THE SUNNIS

I never said that...

TH: yes you did.

BUSH CHENEY ADMIT NO MISTAKES-THEIR ACTIONS ALONE HAVE LEAD TO THIS DAY

The "surge" is an admission of mistakes.


TH: hahahahahahaha, WRONG. in reality it is but you will never hear b/c admit to a mistake. Cheney's respons to the fact that 2/3 of americans think Iraq was a mistake? So?


Righties are the masters of fauxrage

Maybe in the past that was true, but after your 9:46 post you have taken the title...


TH: ok, freak out over some guys getting married and come talk to me.

Is concern for a brother, two uncles and a best friend on the ground in Iraq faux concern?

Posted by taxman at 2008-03-24 09:50 AM | Reply


Is the fact that you didn't post in the thread until after I said "faux concern" lost on you?

If "as quickly as possible" means 5 more years and 4,000 more lives, is it worth it?

Posted by ness_gadol


No, absolutely not... I would hope our troop levels are down to lesser numbers of troops then we have deployed in South Korea by end of the next presidents first term at the latest.

I think we're probably always going to have some sort of presence in Iraq... just looking at the bases they've built says that...

TH: yes you did.

Post the exact quote and a link to the full thread so that everyone can see what was going on then you lying fuck.

The "surge" is an admission of mistakes.


TH: hahahahahahaha, WRONG. I

For years we did not have enough troops to secure the nation... then we upped it by thousands... now there has been great progress in securing the nation and the situation is greatly improved from where it was.

The Surge is an admission of mistakes whether they want to admit it or not... actions speak louder then words.

do you deny posting the words Fuck the Sunni's

Is the fact that you didn't post in the thread until after I said "faux concern" lost on you?

Just wanted to make sure I would not be considered a faux person before stating my opinion, but good morning 101.

BTW, would you agree that what I just posted regarding handing control back to the Iraqi government and providing assistance is what John McCain meant when he made the 100 year statement? Moreover, wouldn't you agree that essentially all three of the candidates will have the same outlook no matter who wins?

not surge-escalation

do you deny posting the words Fuck the Sunni's

Posted by truthhurts


Exactly those words? yeah... Cuz I think I said "Fuck 'em." What I'm saying is you need to finnally post the entire thread so people can see why I said it and what it was about... or else you are just a typical phoney outrage lying fuck liberal.

You got the thread? Post it... Hell I'll even give you the gist of it to help your search, I think it was called "Sunni Baghdad Lies in Ruin." Or something of that nature... that is where I said what you've been harping on for over a year now... so find it and post it.

hey you were the one who said fuck em about our allies, you know the ones we are paying to the tune of a 1/3 of a billion dollars per year. our good friends, yes fuck em.

I take it you don't have the link then?

Just wanted to make sure I would not be considered a faux person before stating my opinion, but good morning 101.

BTW, would you agree that what I just posted regarding handing control back to the Iraqi government and providing assistance is what John McCain meant when he made the 100 year statement? Moreover, wouldn't you agree that essentially all three of the candidates will have the same outlook no matter who wins?

Posted by taxman at 2008-03-24 10:00 AM | Reply


Good morning my relatively moderate friend.
I agree we need to transition more control over to the Iraqi government. I do however see a problem with that. If they do something that is counter to what we (the people paying the bills) see as progress, and we see as detrimental to our investment, what do we do? Do we do an immediate and controlled pull-out, which is basically flushing the past 5 years worth of money down the shitter? Or do we threaten them behind the scenes to get our way, which would then really mean we never gave them control in the first place?

I don't pretend to have the answers. I do believe we can't keep spending our money over there with no results. Pulling out isn't an option, and the 3 Presidential contenders know that.

Pulling out isn't an option, and the 3 Presidential contenders know that.

I pretty much am with you on this one, but I would qualify the above statment with "immediate pullout" instead of "pulling out". I think it is an option a couple of years down the road.

I take it you don't have the link then?

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole


Fuck em is significantly different from fuck the sunnis? when the subject of the post (ie em) was the sunnis?

ok you got me there.

fuck em

em=sunnis so by the transitive theorem fuck the sunnis.

your words

and bush is really fucken em to the tune of $300 Million US dollars per year. that'll show em

I do however see a problem with that. If they do something that is counter to what we (the people paying the bills) see as progress, and we see as detrimental to our investment, what do we do?


democrawhat?

101 hits the nail on the head in his convoluted moron level logic

we cannot control Iraq, they have vastly different interests then we do.

so why are spending lives and treasure to create a nation that will be hostile to our interests?

Fuck em is significantly different from fuck the sunnis?

You are saying I was saying "Fuck 'em" about the Sunnis in general... that is a lie. If you had the link you could post it and everyone would see it... you're a liar.

when the subject of the post (ie em) was the sunnis?

No, that was not the subject of the post. Again you are a liar.

Careful, Mr. Pot, calling any other DR kettle "black."

Sunni Baghdad In Ruins (I agree it was something along that lines) is not about the Sunnis, ok got ya. I can see clearly now.

Fuck em and by Fuck em we mean pay them royally with our tax dollars.

What again is your opinion on the welfare state?

but I would qualify the above statment with "immediate pullout" instead of "pulling out". I think it is an option a couple of years down the road.

Even McCain has supported this in his speeches though... there isn't anyone running on a platform of "Let's keep this war going forever." McCain is just saying although lots of mistakes were made once we were there, it wasn't a mistake to go in the first place. That's where he and Obama differ... and who knows what the fuck Clinton's position on Iraq is anymore...

McCain is just saying although lots of mistakes were made once we were there, it wasn't a mistake to go in the first place.

When I hear McCain do the Mark McGwire thing - i.e., let's not focus on the past, I'm hear about the future - I tend to think he is admitting going into Iraq was a mistake, but we are there so let's clean up our mess the best we can. I may be wrong though.

Sunni Baghdad In Ruins (I agree it was something along that lines) is not about the Sunnis, ok got ya. I can see clearly now.


You're saying I was saying fuck the sunnis... all sunnis... not true... I'll even paraphrase what I said (since I can't find the thread or post either) using "fuck 'em" again... The thread as we agree was about the area known as sunni baghdad lying in ruins. so I said something along the lines of... Aren't the Sunnis in this neighborhood the ones who have been attacking and killing our troops? Why should I care about their living conditions in baghdad when they are responsible for the situation? Fuck 'em.

Something like that... so no, I was not saying "Fuck the Sunnis," I was saying that I don't give a shit for what their living conditions are in a neighborhood that they themselves are responsible for destroying.

Now if you can provide the thread and prove me wrong, fine, but I'm pretty sure that's how it went down... and you are and have been lying about it for months.

I'm not saying anything other than YOU said Fuck em when refering to the Sunnis. em=Sunnis which was the subject of the thread you posted on. Well unless Sunnis in Baghdad is NOT refering to sunnis. So Fuck the Sunnis seems to be an accurate portrayal of your words. you said it not me.

what again is your opinion on the welfare state?

let's not focus on the past, I'm hear about the future - I tend to think he is admitting going into Iraq was a mistake, but we are there so let's clean up our mess the best we can. I may be wrong though.

Posted by taxman


No, I think you are probably right to a degree... I doubt McCain would have started war with Iraq... he can't say that though and have any chance of the Conservative base coming out for him. I'm sure he sees the good in removing Hussein from power though, and the potential a free and stable Iraq has to change the middle east... But I don't see him as a guy who is going to continue on in Iraq indefinitly.

Plus we have another 9-10 months of the surge and its progress in Iraq before Bush even leaves office... the decision for McCain/Obama may be very easy come next spring.

ooops another thread becomes about rob

Well unless Sunnis in Baghdad is NOT refering to sunnis.

Actually I think its referring to a neighborhood...

The context you are putting it in makes you a liar.

what again is your opinion on the welfare state?

I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about...

I pretty much am with you on this one, but I would qualify the above statment with "immediate pullout" instead of "pulling out". I think it is an option a couple of years down the road.


Posted by taxman at 2008-03-24 10:12 AM | Reply


I completely agree. Timing is everything. McCain mentioned being there 100 years, although I doubt he meant it as a "goal".

If the situation changes and we can leave there in significant numbers then I'm sure McCain would take the opportunity as would the Dems.

ooops another thread becomes about rob

Posted by truthhurts

And why did that happen? I posted about the subject of the thread... you launched into personal attacks.

rob pretending he is a reasonable human being.

Posted by truthhurts at 2008-03-24 09:41 AM

Notice that Taxman and I are still on topic, same with Ness and I... its only with you that this tangent is taking place...

there isn't anyone running on a platform of "Let's keep this war going forever."

Bullshit.. McCain specifically said that he could see us in Iraq for the next 100 years..

Unfortunately, 4,000 dead will probably be less than half of the total before this is done..

what again is your opinion on the welfare state?

I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about...

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at


we are paying the sunni militias. The same fuck ems that were attacking us not too long ago.

We are paying people not to attack us.

What is your opinion on the welfare state?

If the situation changes and we can leave there in significant numbers then I'm sure McCain would take the opportunity as would the Dems.

Posted by 101Chairborne


Judging by how congress' approval sunk like a stone when they didn't act on the war, if the next president doesn't start working towards some type of pullout in the beginning of his first term, he will suffer immediately in the polls.

I'm hoping the progress continues that we see now and in 2009, it will be easy to begin removing large amounts of soldiers.

Bullshit.. McCain specifically said that he could see us in Iraq for the next 100 years..


Quote him... exactly...

You're about to look really stupid...

Bullshit.. McCain specifically said that he could see us in Iraq for the next 100 years..

Unfortunately, 4,000 dead will probably be less than half of the total before this is done..

Posted by jsprague at 2008-03-24 10:33 AM



Some how you've interpreted that in to "let's keep this war going on forever"?

I'd call you a retard but that may be a compliment.

I'm hoping the progress continues...

Oct-07 114 565
Nov-07 89 471
Dec-07 72 476
Jan-08 69 485
Feb-08 110 564
Mar-08 112 534


progress as in the recent increase in security/civilian (reported) deaths?

. McCain mentioned being there 100 years,

We have been in a lot of countries in a supporting role, and that is exactly what McCain was talking about when he said 100 years. I think it is disingenuous to say he meant the surge or heavy military presence would be needed in Iraq for 100 years. While I hate being the world's policeman (policewoman for you Hillary supporters), the fact is that Iraq will need our help to prevent take over by militants and radicals. I don't think it needs to be a roll of aggression, as it has been, but more of a role as mentor.

Iraq will need our help to prevent take over by militants and radicals


iraq has been taken over by militants and radicals.

iraq has been taken over by militants and radicals.

Whoa, slow down there bucky. What exactly do you mean?

When those deaths were significantly lower were you posting those numbers?



no I was tracking them, I was reading much more about what those numbers mean and it the reduction was a temporary phenomenom.

are you outraged that americans are PAYING sunni militias?

McCain: "As long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed. That's fine with me, I hope that would be fine with you, if we maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world where Al Queada is training and equipping and recruiting and motivating people every single day.

Wanting in base and ally in Al Qaeda's backyard, while no troops are being injured, harmed, wounded or killed... So I'll say again...

there isn't anyone running on a platform of "Let's keep this war going forever."

When those deaths were significantly lower were you posting those numbers?



no

Of course you weren't... but as soon as there was an uptick, you were here posting it weren't you...

Did you have your pom-poms out while you posted it? "YAAAAAAY DEATH!!!!"

Whoa, slow down there bucky. What exactly do you mean?



Moqtada al Sadr
SCIRI Council
The Awakening
Kurdish Rebel forces

etc

one might consider the American military as being a militant force, we can debate their radicalness.

are you outraged that americans are PAYING sunni militias?


Not if it keeps our troops from being killed, and helps to stabalize Iraq.

Oct-07 114 565
Nov-07 89 471
Dec-07 72 476
Jan-08 69 485
Feb-08 110 564
Mar-08 112 534


Can I ask where you are getting these numbers from by the way...

did I add this up right? Since October of 2007 569,095 people have been killed in Iraq? I'm really going to need a link for this one...

Of course you weren't... but as soon as there was an uptick, you were here posting it weren't you...

Did you have your pom-poms out while you posted it? "YAAAAAAY DEATH!!!!"

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole



that is because the Iraq war/bush's war is an illegal, immoral war of agression, every death that america is responsible for is a tragedy. Deluded individuals such as yourself cannot see or comprehend that. You grasp at straws that there is some "success" or "victory" to be had in Iraq. only death and pain, mostly absorbed by the Iraqis, but we dont think much about them.

We cannot AFFORD to stabilize Iraq, because Iraq cannot be stabilized in a manner consistent with american interests. that is a fact of life. Meanwhile permanent occupation. Iraq get used to it.

some months the death tolls will be lower, the violence will be lower, other months it will be higher. Someone will hit a critical figure/structure in iraq and the flames will grow again, then they will subside.

the surge was supposed to be winding down, it aint.

are you outraged that americans are PAYING sunni militias?


Not if it keeps our troops from being killed, and helps to stabalize Iraq.

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole



So you support funding terrorists, ok got ya.

...if we maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world where Al Queada is training and equipping and recruiting and motivating people every single day. -John McCain

That would include every country in the world, right, John? Except that you only call them "Al Quaeda" when you can't remember who they actually are, or when you just want to scare us.

one might consider the American military as being a militant force, we can debate their radicalness.


Posted by truthhurts at 2008-03-24 10:46 AM | Reply


Translation: I am lonely.

TH, I haven't seen any of those groups take over any part of government, yet, but I will admit they are forces to be dealt with, which is what we are doing. Of course, I think we should start handing that role over to the Iraqis sooner than later. It is sad that Bush and Co. created this mess and don't even have to clean it up before they leave, but the facts is we are where we are and we need to do what's best for our military and the Iraqi people. It is a difficult balance but I think my guy, Obama, has the best judgment to create that balance. Others will disagree with my choice, but they are perfectly entitled to do so.

So you support funding terrorists, ok got ya.

Posted by truthhurts


I support stabalizing Iraq... if it takes bribing a few people to keep their weapons locked up then okay... obviously if they continue attacking our troops then you cut off funding and their heads.

1st 3 digits security forces last 3 digits civilians

Ohhhhh... okay, sorry... I get it now...

if we maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world

There are plenty of volatile places in the world, and that is what we have the UN for.

Truthhurts... from your icasualties site:

Oct-06 224 1315
Nov-06 123 1741
Dec-06 123 1629
Jan-07 91 1711
Feb-07 150 2864
Mar-07 215 2762

One year later:

Oct-07 114 565
Nov-07 89 471
Dec-07 72 476
Jan-08 69 485
Feb-08 110 564
Mar-08 112 534


That's the progress I'm talking about in Iraq...

Sucks when your own site is slammed back in your face don't it?

Now I'm curious Truthhurts have you ever posted the numbers in that context before? Showing that in even these past couple uptick months attacks are down by thousands?

Oh you're a dishonest little fuck? Oh right... sorry about that...

and look at these numbers, dumbass

Jan-05 109 NA
Feb-05 103 NA
Mar-05 176 257
Apr-05 199 301
May-05 259 572
Jun-05 296 469


yeeehhaaaa things are only worse then they were 3 years ago.

We cannot AFFORD to stabilize Iraq, because Iraq cannot be stabilized in a manner consistent with american interests. that is a fact of life. Meanwhile permanent occupation. Iraq get used to it.

Exactly... We can't force a people to happily embrace our values. 101 retarded chairborne posts won't change that.

So you support funding terrorists, ok got ya.

Posted by truthhurts


I support stabalizing Iraq... if it takes bribing a few people to keep their weapons locked up then okay... obviously if they continue attacking our troops then you cut off funding and their heads.

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole a



coming from someone who gave his milk money to the school bully that is understandable.

but I dont want to be paying terrorists. you are ok with that, fine.

Jan-05 109 NA
Feb-05 103 NA

NA? So nobody was killed in January of 2005?

no dumbass the site was not collecting stats

you know back when Iraqi deaths were swept under the rug.


btw from the website

This is not a complete list, nor can we verify these totals. This is simply a compilation of deaths reported by news agencies. Actual totals for Iraqi deaths are much higher than the numbers recorded on this site.

no dumbass the site was not collecting stats

Posted by truthhurts


Oh, so their data collection was poor back in 2005 and therefore does not hold water as to painting a picture of what the situation in Iraq was like back then... Oops...

Monthly death totals in Iraq, according to your site are down by the thousands... That's progress...

thanks for the link buddy! I'll be using it a lot when silly ass liberals like you try to say there is no progress from teh surge...

Oct-06 224 1315
Nov-06 123 1741
Dec-06 123 1629
Jan-07 91 1711
Feb-07 150 2864
Mar-07 215 2762

One year later:

Oct-07 114 565
Nov-07 89 471
Dec-07 72 476
Jan-08 69 485
Feb-08 110 564
Mar-08 112 534

You've got to love the fact that some idiot claimed McCain "specifically" said something (that he didn't say), and then has the gaul to call somebody else a retard.

JSpouge,
Please show us the "specifics" or kindly STFU.

This is not a complete list, nor can we verify these totals.

Posted by Truthhurts

BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA...

Now that I've slammed truthy with his own stupid site, out come the disclaimers!!!!! LMAO!

That's progress.

no dumbass, that's ethnic cleansing for you. the sunnis and shiites are seperated by walls, that's the results of the millions kicked out of their homes.

that's politics for you, that's bribery, that's our tax dollars going to the people who were killing our soldiers, that's making deals with Iranian backed thugs (SCIRI), that's turning a blind eye to Moqtada al Sadr who until not too long ago was enemy number 2 in iraq.

That doesnt sound like progress, that sounds like the republican version of surrender.

give money to the bullies and bend over to take it up the ass, the republican way.

Now that I've slammed truthy with his own stupid site, out come the disclaimers!!!!! LMAO!

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole



hahahaha robbie sets fire to his house, douses a few flames and gets a hard on over his success, congrats

gets a hard on over his success

I wouldn't say "hard on" but using your site that you use over and over to say how fucked this war is to show that we have indeed made amazing progress... well yeah, that made me smile a little...

I mean just look at this and tell me you don't look really stupid... we'll just take one month and your comment:

Mar-08 112 534


progress as in the recent increase in security/civilian (reported) deaths?

Posted by truthhurts at 2008-03-24 10:38 AM


But March of 2007 saw:

Mar-07 215 2762

Almost double the security deaths and over 2000 more civilian deaths...

We've decreased the monthly death total in Iraq by around 2,300 for this month... again... thanks for the link... truth hurts, donut

dumbass dumbass dumbass

noone is refuting the reduction in deaths from one year ago,

one is refuting what they mean.

they are attributable to the following.

1. success of ethnic cleansing.
2. separation of the warring parties
3. payment of sunni militias with US money.
4. cease fire by Al Sadr as he gains more control of govt.
5. increase in US troop presence

the fact that the trends are reversing and not continuing to decrease means that the one constant that the repubs tout (point 5) is not the decisive factor that you think it is.

The sunni militias are NOT gaining the political power then wanted from their "awakening" and will likely turn against the americans again.

once the sunni militias start up the shiites will follow

but the violence likely wont get back to 2006 levels because the cleansing has already been accomplished, the sides are separated.

but the violence likely wont get back to 2006 levels because the cleansing has already been accomplished

How convenient for you... a constant excuse for you to never acknowledge any of the gains in Iraq...

Amazing that drops in deaths by the thousands per month went hand in hand with the surge...

Really! that's quite an amazing coincidence... though one had nothing to do with the other... NAAAAHHHHHH!!!!

Sad milestone

Ethnic cleansing has helped.

We put a Bandaid on Iraq, but the internal infection has yet to be addressed - The Iraqi government has not taken necessary steps. Our losses were for naught in the long run unless they take action, which so far they've been unwilling to do.

Al Sadr is thankfully still abiding by a ceasefire. How long will that last?

The Sunni and Shiite militias are now armed to the teeth with weapons we've provided.

A timetable is the only way to get them off their asses. We've spent enough in blood and treasure.

4,000 and counting, what a National Disgrace. These loyal and honorable young men an women died for NOTHING. Wars should be fought for National Security, nothing else, this War was fought and planned by these Neo-Cons years before the first shot was fired.

This War was fought for a POLICY, not National Security. This Administration has brought great Shame for this once great Nation. The World Court which was formed with the assistance of the United States, should charge this Administration with War Crimes against humanity. Only then can we rid ourselves of the Cancer known as THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION.

Someday History will record that we the American People looked the other way when our Country was being degraded by this Village Idiot (With apologies to Village Idiots).

If we kill a certain percentage of Iraqis, and then a much larger percentage leaves the country...can we claim Success! and Victory! if there are less people to be killed still IN the country?

Apparently, many think so.

Why don't we kill ALL of them and claim Total Victory?

Funny...
It's the Global War On Terror, but we're ONLY fighting it in Iraq, and have no plans to ever fight it anywhere else.

2 million Iraqis are afraid to come home

2 million Iraqis live in tents after violence drove them from their homes.

This in a country of 25 million.

Spin that

That's the equivalent of 45 million Americans at 15%

Amazing that drops in deaths by the thousands per month went hand in hand with the surge...


because dumbass the change in policy for the US to PAY with US money the sunni militias who were attacking us started with the escalation, thus the reduction in violence.

hey you are on record with supporting paying terrorists, no problem.

hey you are on record with supporting paying terrorists, no problem.

Posted by truthhurts


I'm on record for doing what needs to be done to secure Iraq... If paying off some people helps secure the country and drop deaths then yeah, I'm okay with that... As long as they aren't taking the money and attacking our troops at the same time then what's the problem?

Face it truthurts, our government has been paying terrorists (in one form or another) for years.

Sad milestone that it is, it will be sadder still to see more brave Americans loose their lives for this misguided mess; brought to us by a POTUS who hid out in the Air National Guard during the Vietnam war and a VP who never served.

If we leave Iraq today or 10 years from today, the same thing will happen. They will devolve into a civil war and the blood bath will be enhanced.

We either stay forever or get the fuck out now and let them do what they are going to do.

I'm on record for doing what needs to be done to secure Iraq...


then why not just leave,that is what they want.

then why not just leave

Posted by truthhurts


Because that won't secure Iraq...

I'm on record for doing what needs to be done to secure Iraq...



so if OBL said that peace and chocolate and flowers would break out in Iraq if you allowed a horse to anally fuck you, you would be ok with that?

ok so rob supports surrendering to the extremists, giving them money and guns.

we have that on record, thanks

You have derailed big guy...

Thanks again for the casualties link...

ok so rob supports surrendering to the extremists, giving them money and guns.


Yawn...

truth hurts donut and it seems puts you to sleep

go back to sleep little man

Truthy, for someone who gets so mad when threads become all about me... you sure as shit have done your best to make this thread all about me...

More phoney outrage I guess...

truth hurts donut

Like the Surge being responsible for decreasing deaths in Iraq by thousands per month?

We can all tell how bad I've gotten under your skin "little man" Re: your horse post.

no like american money being handed to people with american blood on their hands, paying them not to attack us.

I thought we didnt negotiate with terrorists, well I guess technically speaking this is surrender and not negotiating.

We don't REALLY know how many there actually are, but you can assume more.

Why because you want the situation there to be worse off?

Why can't one assume less?

because other news sources claim significantly higher death counts, but why let facts get in the way of you fantasy

because other news sources claim significantly higher death counts, but why let facts get in the way of you fantasy

Posted by truthhurts at 2008-03-24 12:07 PM | Reply


Get a load of this retard. "Facts" that can be higher and lower aren't facts, but guesses.

no they are deaths reported in the media. not guesses

doucheface, one source chooses to incorporate those reports, another does not, not guesses

one source chooses to incorporate those reports, another does not

Why? If they're accurate why would, hypothetically, CNN use them, but ABC wouldn't? Is there something wrong with them?

ask the website operators icasualties.org conditioned there website with the statement I posted earlier. antiwar.com has links to all of the media reports that they use.

ask the website operators icasualties.org conditioned there website with the statement I posted earlier

The one that says they have no idea if its accurate or not... AKA Guesses

A Mosaic comprised of the faces of men and women who needn't have died

Posted by AMERICANUNITY


Way to honor them by using them in a McCain attack ad...

Cuz that's what casualties of war should become...

We don't REALLY know how many there actually are, but you can assume more.

Why because you want the situation there to be worse off?

Why can't one assume less?

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

In case you missed the fact these are confirmed Iraqi deaths.

Gee, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that the figure is most likely higher.

I wish NONE of them had died. Or that 4000 of our own hadn't. That 30,000 hadn't been wounded.

How's that?

ROB

Look at their faces. If you put down your keyboard and take a closer look these were all bright young people with full lives ahead of them. I never wanted this war. You did.

PS ROB

That's the only time I've seen all 4000 faces in one place.

Forget Bush and McCain and look at the faces of the fallen. Kind of puts it in perspective doesn't it?

One reason Vietnam ended were the endless pictures of caskets returning to U.S. soil. Bush and Co have not allowed us to see the cost of their folly. We've been sheltered from images of the tens of thousands of wounded American and Iraqi alike.

4000 American dead
89,000 Iraqi confirmed dead

This is YOUR war. I never wanted any part of it

So we're gonna be there a hundred years - no matter what - cuz we're building lavish bases )and embassies) there? Hey, do WE get a say in that? I know that Bush and Cheney have both said repeatedly they don't give a shit WHAT people say, but do we just sit on our hands, smile sweetly and maybe wave the occasional pompom? Will it be different when it's 8,000? Vietnam was 57,000... herm

That's the only time I've seen all 4000 faces in one place.

Well considering the death toll reached 4000 today, that's not surprising. And the only time you've ever seen it, their sacrafice was used as a political attack ad.

You obviously support that. I think its kind of a fucked up thing to do...

This is YOUR war. I never wanted any part of it

Posted by AMERICANUNITY


Well a large majority of America did, along with the congress, and many other nations.

Before the war, McCain predicted a quick and easy victory, not a vicious insurgency. He issued dire warnings about Saddam Hussein's supposed weapons of mass destruction but didn't read the full 2002 National Intelligence Estimate that showed gaps in the intelligence

For that I hold him as accountable as everyone else who voted for the war without reading the NIE or standing up to question whether this resolution would immediately be used in a march to war rather than the hammer to hold over Saddam's head in order for the U.N. Inspectors to complete their job - a job they never got to complete just when they'd gained unfettered access and were casting doubts on the WMD charges.

I'm so sorry for the families of these dead. 4000. That's bigger than the entire population of many towns in America. Lots of sadness.

4000 dead = for what? for what? for what?

ROB

Most Americans supported it then because our CiC, and every other continual breathing spin doctor they have, breathlessly told us stories they well knew were based on shaky intel and shaky sources.

78% of Americans don't think it was a good idea now that we know, as Paul Harvey would say, "the REST of the story".

I hope America learns it's lesson and hard questions are asked before we ever engage in another tragic folly.

Imagine if we still had the 'No Fly' zones that kept Saddam "Boxed In" in Dick Cheney's words days after 9/11.

Afghanistan would have gotten the resources that needed to be in place there, we'd be talking about an Afghanistan where it's safe enough to drive the newly built highways connection Kabul to other cites rather than being death traps Afghanis are afraid to travel. The Taliban would have been completely wiped out instead of controlling large portions of Southern Afghanistan.

America had the world's blessing on Afghanistan - even Arabs. Justice is justice.

Iraq was a huge blunder the likes of which we haven't seen in decades.

Great post, AU

And the only time you've ever seen it, their sacrafice was used as a political attack ad.

And the right would never ever use the deaths of Americans for political gain?

I hope America learns it's lesson and hard questions are asked before we ever engage in another tragic folly.


They haven't and they won't, because in the run up to the war, anyone that dared question the rationale for the war was dubbed a traitor by the right.

Most Americans supported it then because our CiC, and every other continual breathing spin doctor they have, breathlessly told us stories they well knew were based on shaky intel and shaky sources.


I have a speech from Hillary Clinton the possible nominee for the DNC presidential candidate touting this war just as much as Dick Cheney or Karl Rove, so don't expect to get a pass that it was just George W. Bush selling this war. Because that's flat out bullshit plain and simple.

78% of Americans don't think it was a good idea now that we know, as Paul Harvey would say, "the REST of the story".

78% of Americans don't think it was a good idea because its been a hard and we've lost a lot of good men... much of the reasoning for us bombing Serbia and Kosovo turned out to be bullshit, but most people don't think that was a mistake because we didn't lose a single life.


The Taliban would have been completely wiped out instead of controlling large portions of Southern Afghanistan.

The taliban still exists (barely) because the people of Afghanistan want it. We may view the Taliban as an extremist militant perversion of Islam, but many in southern Afghanistan and Pakistan view it as the way, the truth and the light and that is why the Taliban will never truly be gone... but every time they show their face we destroy them in massive numbers.

Thanx fer the link to that Mosaic AU.
Spud hadn't seen it yet.

AU: A Mosaic comprised of the faces of men and women who needn't have died

RtA: Way to honor them by using them in a McCain attack ad...

Cuz that's what casualties of war should become...

Beats the living shit out of wot the traitorous fuckwits at BushCo do with their images.

Hide them, cover them up, make taking pictures of their flag draped coffins an offense, not attending their funerals, making sure the nightly news coverage shows us Paris Hilton well used cooter more often then their faces.

Rob thinks that using their images to try and lessen the number of future casualties is wrong somehow.

FAIL.

The only way the area is gonna stabilise is for America to withdraw after giving a clear schedule for that withdrawal.

Yes, Spud knows this is exactly wot BushCo say will lead to "Iraq descending into chaos".

Question#1 : Wot do you think you got now?

Question#2 : Have these fuckers ever been right about anything regarding this war?

ANYTHING? EVAR?!

So wot makes anyone think that they are right now?

The only time there has been a significant drop in Iraqi violence during this occupation was when the Iraqis mistakenly thought the American forces were on their way out.

The southern part of Iraq has stabilised due to Iranian influence. Iran is gonna be the big winner here like it or not. However, the Shia in both Iran and Iraq know full well they can't run too roughshod over the remaining Sunni in Iraq because the Sunni outnumber the Shia is the world of Islam by a signficant margin outside of those two countries. They know that such actions would lead to unwanted reprisals.

America dropped how many tons of bombs in Vietnam? Lost how many lives? In the end the only thing that brought peace was when America stopped waging war.

It will be the same in Iraq.

Also at some point in the future the same thing will have to happen in Palestine.

So sez Spud.

Spud has spake.

Be Well.

/Tater o' Doom, as he always do around this time, making his way onto the RCade section of blogworld, the meaty, beaty, big and bouncy Drudge Retort, as ya do,
stage left.

I have nothing more to say on this other than

It's an awfully sad state of affairs.

Question#1 : Wot do you think you got now?

Decreased death tolls by the thousands per month thanks to the surge.

Have these fuckers ever been right about anything regarding this war?

the surge

ANYTHING? EVAR?!

Yes... the surge

So wot makes anyone think that they are right now?

Because they were right about the surge

The only time there has been a significant drop in Iraqi violence during this occupation was when the Iraqis mistakenly thought the American forces were on their way out.

Since around last summer the deaths in Iraq have dropped by the thousands and stayed down... this month alone compared to last year's March there are 2,000 less deaths... that's not a significant drop? Of course it is...

Here's another mosaic that may be more palatable, ROB

Yeah, actually it is... because that's not using them as a political attack ad.

"I have nothing more to say on this other than (i)t's an awfully sad state of affairs."

That does sort of encapsulate it, AU. But we continue hearing the shrill yaps of Wobbie, snarling and chasing his tail while seeking someone to bite, and The Chair, the bogus paratrooper barking his militaristic bullshit and sieg heils. The fact that no one seems to be running our Mideast bloodbath doesn't bother THEM. herm

The other one was the first one I saw.

4000 faces of needless dead no matter how you parse it.

You can rollover the second one and it will give you a link to the story of that particular tragic death.

not surge, escalation

not surge, surrender as evident by paying your enemy not to shoot at you.

not surge, handing govt over to the extremists like moqtada al sadr.

not surge, successful ethnic cleansing.

keep on believing

Surge

I believe Dick Cheney is the biggest living piece of shit who has ever walked on the face of the earth.

"[is] an admission of mistakes whether they want to admit it or not"

Now THAT is hilarious !

"much of the reasoning for us bombing Serbia and Kosovo turned out to be bullshit"

You need to mention that to the UN tribunal and to all the relatives of those who were butchered by Serb warlords.

"The taliban still exists (barely) because the people of Afghanistan want it."

Also because Pakistan allows them to exist. And because Afghanistan, absent our and NATO's help, can't keep them out.

"then has the gaul to call somebody else a retard."

So someone still enjoys dumping on the french (gaul). But it's a poor pun. snicker.

Cheney and Bush, two chickenhawks that sent 4,000 brave young soldiers to their deaths for no reason. Many of those dead have found peace that the 40,000 severely wounded Americans will never know. And, how quickly we forget the millions of Iraqi lives destroyed by these chickenhawks, by death, dismemberment, torture and forced dislocation

"The taliban still exists (barely) because the people of Afghanistan want it."

~FYI

True, as far as it goes.

Another factor is in southern Afghanistan where 3,500 new American troops have recently been added. The Pashtuns of this region are not necessarily allied with the Taliban but they have been left out of the political process to date which makes them very pissed indeed. The whole over-simplification of the Afghani question in the western MSM (ie. making it look like "it's all down to a resurgance of the Taliban") makes this very important consideration largely invisible.

Here's another consideration, when America gave the Soviets "there own Vietnam" in Afghanistan in the eighties there were over 200,000 Soviet troops and about an equal number of paid Afghani's on their side. They fought against a Taliban largely supported by the US including Osama Bin LAden.

They lost.

Now the Taliban is being supported by Iran, The Saudis (no matter their denials, it's the truth) and other American enemies from Muslim countries (and possibly non-Muslim countries around the world.

As long as the popular will to resist the invasion continues and the external forces continue to support the Taliban and other guerilla groups the end results will no doubt be the same. Remember the Soviets had a shorter supply line to maintain and more troops in country and still they failed.

Worth considering.

Be Well.

So?

--Dick Cheney, speaking while fishing on the Saudi's boat--

Fishing on the Kingfish

the kingfish, the amos and andy character with all the get rich schemes.

oooohhh the irony

OUCH

Rob OWNED by Dethspud

Don't worry folks, Rob'll be back to claim the surge is proof that Dumbya's entire strategery was leading to the surge...

Congrats republicans. You should be proud of all the death you are responsible for.

Messiah, Congrads Democrats. You should be proud of all the death you are resonsible for.

fiscal year 2005-2006 Planned Parenthood preformed 264,943 abortions, a profit of $55.8 million and $305.3 million received from the american taxpayer

enough said

what 12 years of republican controlled congress including 6 years republican controlled WH and a conservative controlled SCOTUS didnt stop it? say it aint so.

thank god for abortion.

what if the virgin mary chose to have an abortion? I mean she was pregnant unmarried, i mean back in the day that was quite the reputation killer,

what if she chose to abort baby jesus?

"Messiah, Congrads Democrats. You should be proud of all the death you are resonsible for.

Posted by Maverick at 2008-03-24 07:38 PM"

Mav - when rightwingers exercise their right to abort their unborn fetuses, who is responsible?
(The notion that only liberals have abortions is laughable.)

Hi, 50% of the posts in this thread will be made by me, since I can't argue in a succinct manner, and instead choose to spamfuck the thread while at work.

-WOB_the_A_hole

Has anyone seen reference to a Cheney statement today that suggests George Bush suffers more over US war dead than do the bereaved families?

To answer my own question---In an ABC News interview Cheney states---Remarking on 4,000 US dead----That Bush has the "biggest burden" compared with all others because he's the one that did the all ordering---Opposed, of course, to any of the dying.

If y'all were curious as to what a sociopath looks like, Cheney about covers it.

Hey Zed-

To quote Cheney: "so?"

We know these people are sociopathic because of their disconnect with reality, or any of the responsibilities it entails.

But anyone who does not get it at this point...never will.

ALEX---What's amazing about Cheney's statement is that he actually surfs close to rubbing GI deaths into the wounds of the families. Hell, maybe he even gets there.

Cheney is a real piece of work, no doubt. There was a clip on the daily show where he said Iraqi polls mattered. WHen it came to American ones he said "so?"

The saddest part is...he's been allowed to do this because our MSM is so lame that a comedy show on cable has better journalism than they do. If the MSM even resembled itself from the Cronkite age, this admin would have been impeached in the first 4 years.

"Messiah, Congrads Democrats. You should be proud of all the death you are resonsible for. fiscal year 2005-2006 Planned Parenthood preformed 264,943 abortions, a profit of $55.8 million and $305.3 million received from the american taxpayer,"

This is rock bottom. Not the congrads, resonsible and preformed, but the urp-producing equating of battle deaths - real people -and terminations of problem pregnancies, the PREVENTION of real people. If that weren't enough, one "maverick" puts a political spin on it. Gee, I said in a post last week that this was republicanism 's finest moment. But now I think THIS is. herm

"The taliban still exists (barely) because the people of Afghanistan want it. "

THE TALIBAN, Wobbie, exists because America formed it to rid Afghanistan of The Evil Empire. The unfriendly mullahs have been replaced by pro-Bush mullahs and are back to burquas and stoning adulterous women. herm

"what if the virgin mary chose to have an abortion? I mean she was pregnant unmarried, i mean back in the day that was quite the reputation killer, what if she chose to abort baby jesus?"

What a wonderful "what if." We'd probably have anointed someone else to fulfill the prophecy. But what if Mary, who wasn't really too hot for the idea of a baby, if you believe the "Hail Mary" movie, had aborted? Would we have had the crusades, the inquisition, or on a smaller scale, the Christian murders of five people involved with women's clinics? As long as we speculate, what if Mrs. Manson had opted to abort, or Mrs. Hitler, or Chairborne's mommie? herm

"We would have annointed someone else to fulfill the prophecy..."

Yes. We just do eeney-meeney-minny-moe on things like that. To make it all work out as we planned, that is. We do the same thing for brain surgery and automotive repair, just to make life more exciting.

Hi, 50% of the posts in this thread will be made by me, since I can't argue in a succinct manner, and instead choose to spamfuck the thread while at work.

-WOB_the_A_hole

Posted by Alexandrite a


Hey dickbag... how about you look at how this whole thing started. I posted one comment, and then immediately people started coming after me. I reply when I am posted to... if you don't like that then that's your fucking problem... I'm sorry not as many people want to speak to you, but I'm guessing you've had that problem your whole life.

Yes, but owning Rob has proven to be waaaaay more trouble that it was worth. This is why Spud currently has Rob up fer auction on E-Bay.

Claiming victory? Wow... douchechills...

"IF that was required."

Well, since there were no WMD's (and we knew that), Iraq had no Navy, no Air Force, and no other way to threaten us, then it was NOT required. That was/is the problem.

Sorry my friend but we do not get to vote on that. It seems to me that Congress, a majority of Congress by the way, voted to support this action and whether we agree or disagree, it became reality. Want it changed??? Vote all those who voted to support this war, and that includes Hillary and many many Dems as well as Repubs, vote them ALL out of office and elect new ones or else accept the result. But, you and I have and did not have any vote in this.

All of us can argue whether this war was right or wrong, but one thing for sure we were going to have to deal with Saddam and his sons sooner or later

I spent over 20 years there and we ALL knew it was our job to suffer death IF that was required.

Therein lies the rub... it was NOT A REQUIRED WAR now was it?

NO WMDs
No Plan to Assassinate Bush 41
No Fly zone being enforced
No threat to America

A war based on lies. Congress and the America People were misled does not equal a necessary war in my book.

Sorry my friend but we do not get to vote on that.

Bullshit you Cheney stooge! If we were not LIED to by our President for his own Nefarious purposes we could have flooded the Congress with our objections to this criminal action. But, as you might recall, we were effectively divided and neutralized by the Rovian tactics of this Radical Regime we currently have.

but one thing for sure we were going to have to deal with Saddam and his sons sooner or later

We were dealing with them...As I recall we already had them surrounded it and contained is just that Bush is just an VERY incompetent strategist... Even I could have done better and that is sad.

No worries Farmer ... Jan 2009 is coming soon...

The numbers who have dies in Iraq are indeed pretty insignificant when we look at the other war deaths, and these are not all of them, just the larger ones. Give me a break and go find something constructive to do.

Insignificant? That's outrageous! Tell that to the families that made the ultimate sacrifice for a War based on LIES. Remember that 4000 is the tip of the iceberg. There are tens of thousands maimed and wounded for life...mentally and physically.

So, are you buying into the New World Order where War is the Normal State of Things?

The Forever War is Bullshit. And you bought it hook line and sinker.

Yep, I'd say just about as smart as a fish on a hook.