And what is this attendee's response to Clinton today distancing herself from NAFTA? "For people who worked hard to pass NAFTA and who support the importance of markets opening for the economy in the long term, they're very upset. A number of the women who were there are very upset. You need to have some integrity in your position. The Clintons when Bill Clinton was president took a moderate position on trade for Democrats. For her to repudiate that now seems pretty phony."

Recalls a second attendee, "they were looking for women in international trade who supported NAFTA. Senator Clinton came by at the end. And of course she asked for our support and help in passing NAFTA."

Uh, oh Hillary

You've been caught lying. Tsk Tsk

"It all depends on what your definition of "supports" is"

-Hillary Clinton

Yeah but Obama's preacher is racist.

Let's keep talking about that.

You've been caught lying.

Except for the die-hard Clinton ass-lickers, the rest of us have known that all along.

Hillary may have backed NAFTA -- after all it was her own husband that pushed it thru to cater to the free trade Republicans.

But the key question now is does Hillary still think NAFTA was a good idea and would she implement similar trade policies if she were elected President. I'll be waiting to see her answer.

As I tell my Repub friends : "we finally have something in common !" (i.e. a burning desire to hear the frigging last of the Billarys).

LOL! Hillary is such a loser! She denied NAFTA in her speeches.

Over the three bad choices I still pick Obama. He seems the best choice for the meld-america-with-MexiCanada.

Hmmm.

Obama's Pastor is an asshole. This would matter is I was looking for a new church.

McCain can't seem to keep our enemies in Iraq straight. This would matter if I was looking for a Commander-in-Chief.

Hillary lies about whether she supported one of the largest trade agreements in the last 100 years. This would matter if I was concerned about Trade and the Economy.

If only there was a way to decide...

Obama's preacher isnt running for president lets get oon track here. If you want to keep on talking about descrations we could do that from now til doomsday. Lets get real and unify.

"Obama's preacher isnt running for president"

He sure isn't. I guess if there were a candidate for president who went to KKK meetings every week, we could say that his Grand Wizard wasn't running for president, and that would be the end of it.

". I guess if there were a candidate for president who went to KKK meetings every week, "

Comparing the rhetoric of a sermon with the KKK? You're joking, right? When did Trinity's congregation ever leave a service to hang someone?

Repeat after me: I'm not a racist, but Obama is too black for me.

Your analogy is only viable if the KKK candidate was half black and raised by his white mother and grandmother. If that were the case, you certainly wouldn't assume he could honestly follow the dogma with his life experience.

BTW What made you such a mean spirited person, Joe?

You never have anything good or funny to say about anything. Guess blogging's your outlet for all that anger.

"Repeat after me: I'm not a racist, but Obama is too black for me."

Repeat after me: When anyone makes a comment that doesn't indicate a complete worship of Barack Obama, I'll shout "RACISM!" like a little girl.

Not sure why Hillary has been lying about NAFTA. Her scheduled seem to support her lies and I remember her flip floping on NAFTA depend on which state she's in and what year reporters are asking her about. This woman has NO foreign policy experience and even less ability to pick up the red phone at 3am in the morning. She even got it wrong in the commerical and used a white phone. Bad judgement there too Billary!!!

Do you even know who the candidates are. You are a joke.

"Your analogy is only viable if the KKK candidate was half black and raised by his white mother and grandmother."

Please. Analogies don't require equivalence down to every minute detail. If that were the case, you could never compare anything to anything else to illustrate the underlying principle.

The only purpose of my analogy was to illustrate the following: Just because Jeremiah Wright isn't running for president doesn't mean his beliefs and actions can't and shouldn't be attributed to his followers who are running for president. If you don't like the KKK, substitute any controversial group. Southern Baptists. Whatever.

Repeat after me: When anyone makes a comment that doesn't indicate a complete worship of Barack Obama, I'll shout "RACISM!" like a little girl.

Posted by JOE at 2008-03-20 02:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

You do everything like a little girl.

Just because Jeremiah Wright isn't running for president doesn't mean his beliefs and actions can't and shouldn't be attributed to his followers who are running for president.

So McCain thinks the catholic church is the great whore?

American Idiot-

How many of your posts have received funny flags compared to mine? It appears as though you are the one with nothing funny to say. Your post was too broad - I simply have nothing funny or nice to say to you, or any other deliberately ignorant Obama worshipper for that matter.

McCain doesn't think Jesus was the savior?

With the lull in between primaries I'm sure the press will be scrutinizing Hillary's schedule and claims of "35 years of experience".

This one item about NAFTA is just what they found in the first couple of hours.

Wonder how she'll explain that to the next state in which NAFTA has been a big problem.

Hillary flip/ flopped on NAFTA when she decided to run for president knowing she'd have to pass thru all those lunch bucket states where us steel-workers once made some good money. Shame on you for lieing, if we only knew the truth before the Ohio primary you'd be gone.

"...or any other deliberately ignorant Obama worshipper for that matter.

JOE

The ignorant one is one who makes feeble attempts at retorting. "Deliberately ignorant" Juvenile

I back Obama because of all I know about him and his opponents.

"So McCain thinks the catholic church is the great whore?"

Please elaborate.

We don't need another lieing president Hillary. I know you'd do anything to get in and its up to us John Q Public to make sure you dont. By the way you dont need to burn down the village to get elected.

I guess McCain is responsible for everything Hagee sez, according to joe's logic.

And rudy was responsible for robertsons BS.

Pity the MSM is only kicking Obama's ass over this. THAT leads people to believe it's racially motivated, since the white religious freaks I've mentioned have said A LOT WORSE than Wright.

Joe- Never heard of McCains religious bigot? His name is Hagee.

JOE

In case you have a hard time reading, or have ADHD, this thread is about Hillary and NAFTA

You have anything to say about it, or are you just typically trolling threads looking for an insult to fling at someone - anyone?

I back Obama but am tired of Hillarys lies and kitcheen sink tactics to bring him down!!!

Then there was the fact that Romney's church didn't think blacks were going to heaven. Within his lifetime.

I don't recall the MSM thrashing him over that one.

My only point is that if someone has been involved in a church for 20 years, we should examine what the beliefs of that church are and see if there is anything that would indicate what type of person a follower of that church might be. That is what we do when we are considering all of the candidates and trying to learn everything we can about them. To ignore what could be the core of any politician's moral code would be foolish. If people think that Obama's church is divisive, and they think this doesn't coincide with his message of unity, they have every right to think that. It is a perfectly logical conclusion, and the only people denying that are people who fervently supported Obama in the first place. Shocking.

American Idiot-

Perhaps you should have said that to JoeLabey, LeonLand, or UncleSam when they all brought up Obama prior to my entry to the thread. I merely responded to one of their posts, and was then accosted by the typical knee-jerk Obama apologists who feel the need to track down every negative comment ever stated about their golden boy and correct it with exceedingly strained logic. If you don't like where the thread has gone, perhaps you should have left my comments alone.

Wonder how she'll explain that to the next state in which NAFTA has been a big problem

~AU

Wot? Like in PA?

Maybe she'll cry again and play the victim card?

She's been avoiding giving up this paperwork for months despite call after call for them and it finally took a massive public shaming and a couple of lawsuiits to get them out there. No doubt we'll be finding all sorts of "unvetted" material on Helldawg.

Just because Jeremiah Wright isn't running for president doesn't mean his beliefs and actions can't and shouldn't be attributed to his followers

~Joe the Schmoe

Just because you couldn't find anything that Obama ever sed that would make folks not want to vote for him doesn't mean you can't try to lynch him by proxy through his admittedly zany Reverend.

But that's not racism is it, Joe?

Reverned Wright preaches a social justice gospel and while Spud doesn't neccessarily belief ecvvery word that falls from his mouth as being gospel Spud certainly doesn't think that the man is either a racist or an anti-American.

You want UnAmerican haters you gotta take a closer look at McNuts and Helldawg.

Helldawg is in tight with the Evangelical Mafia in DC, hanging out with the mysterious Cuckoo Coe who apparently has managed to avoid the annoying strictures regarding the seperation of church and state for years now.

Now how how scary and unAmerican is that?

McCain on the other hand who once rightly called Fallwell and Pat Robertson "Agents of intolerance" has subsequently bent over backwards and licked their ballsack trying to backtrack on those remarks.

Fallwell sed in the days after 9/11 that it was the "gays and femnissts and the abortionists" who "helped" make 9/11 happen.

Not only a hater but totally insane as well.

Quite frankly the more you look into the religious affiliation of all three candidates left the clearer you see that Obama has the least scary connections. Helldawg and McTaint are the ones connected to the real pieces of shit.

Anyone who thinks that Barack Obama isn't clearly the best candidate fer POTUS isn't neccessarily a racist but they are definitely an idiot.

Be Well.

Joe- I happen to think that Obama's speech the other night cleared up doubts a reasonable person would have.

I back Obama but am tired of Hillarys lies and kitcheen sink tactics to bring him down!!!

Hillary has been watching Karl Rove all these long years and taking notes apparently. Hillary feels "entitled" to the presidency, she feels that she is the "inevitable" candidate, that it is "her turn". Her lust for personal power overwhelms all sense of propriety. She will stop at nothing and stoop to anything to get elected. She throws the kitchen sink at Obama ignoring McCain, in fact even playing up McCain over Obama, in a senseless "scorched earth" type of campaign that will either get her closer to the nom or tear the Democratic party to shreds and hand the election over to McAint.

Wotta total biatch!

Wonder if Joe has picked a candidate yet or if he's just here to practise his ability to tear down folk with faulty logic, slurs and innuendo.

Hoping to get a gig with Hillaburton ...or McTaint?

Be Well.

Joe- I happen to think that Obama's speech the other night cleared up doubts a reasonable person would have.

~Alex&rite

Ha! Alex just used the words "Joe" and "reasonable" together in the same sentence w/o the additional qualifier "isn't".

Never seen that before. ^_^

Be Well.

No one gave Romney a hard time about that one was because he is white and rich and comes from a family with lots of influence.

The KKK is endorsing Obama because they can't stand "that bitch" to quote the imperial wizard.

I think if the people pouring over Hillarys online schedules have found so many lies and inconsistencies in the first few hours this will prove to be the "Jeremiah Wright" of Hillary Clinton. Hillary better not say anything regarding NAFTA in PA as those good people know how to read and already know she is a liar.

... mysterious Chinese businessman who managed to be cleared into the White House on 49 occasions...

"But the name of the person Hillary Clinton was having her picture taken with has been deleted on the grounds that it would be "an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy," according to the Archives' released record. This may seem odd, given that Chung had spoken openly, many times, about his photo op with Hillary. It may seem even odder given that just a few minutes later the First Lady had another photo session--but this time, the documents identify the person whose picture was taken. It was Eileen Collins, the astronaut."

"My only point is that if someone has been involved in a church for 20 years, we should examine what the beliefs of that church are and see if there is anything that would indicate what type of person a follower of that church might be."

Then all practicing Catholics should be questioned about their tolerance of child abuse and cover-ups of child abuse. How can anyone attend a Catholic church knowing that the Bishop probably at some time covered up a sex scandal involving one or more priests???

How can anyone attend a Southern Baptist church knowing full well that in times past (the not too distant past) those churches actively supported racist politicians and segregation of the races? Why didn't all members of those churches repudiate that hate filled message which was delivered loudly and often throughout the south? Any politician who attended and tolerated it without speaking out is just as guilty as Obama.

How can anyone now attend churches which actively campaign against gays? They had to give up racism within their sanctified bastion of prejudice but many still cling to homosexuality as one last focus for their hate which is acceptable. I wonder if we went through the sermons of all the preachers who have politicians in their flocks if we couldn't find plenty of racism, plenty of homophobia, plenty of hate to go around yet no complaints from the same hypocrits so concerned about the retired, 70 year old preacher at Obama's church.

I'm thinking that the Obama campaign should assign a few interns to start digging through the sermons of all the other politicians to see what might be hiding there.

Hillary has always supported NAFTA. She tells one story in Texas and another in Ohio and Michigan. Why cannot people see through her facade and label her as she is???

DANNI, was it you who mentioned Omega 3 for Alzheimers? If so I need to know more please.

farmerjohn

"DANNI, was it you who mentioned Omega 3 for Alzheimers? If so I need to know more please."

No, it wasn't me.

Hillary may have backed NAFTA -- after all it was her own husband that pushed it thru to cater to the free trade Republicans.

But the key question now is does Hillary still think NAFTA was a good idea and would she implement similar trade policies if she were elected President. I'll be waiting to see her answer.

Posted by CalifChris at 2008-03-19 09:13 PM

No, Hillary did support NAFTA, she is on record saying that. Kind of like how she was for the war before she was against it.

I see people bringing out their flip flops, just like they did with Kerry.

Then all practicing Catholics should be questioned about their tolerance of child abuse and cover-ups of child abuse. How can anyone attend a Catholic church knowing that the Bishop probably at some time covered up a sex scandal involving one or more priests???


Posted by danni at 2008-03-20 08:15 AM

This is spot on. The catholic church was systematic in hiding and lying about preists that sexually abused and raped your children. But they are still members of the church, so I guess they must support child rape. So what is worse, an angry pastor that says god damn america, or child rapists?

Very revealing as of late for Hillary. First there was the Wal-Mart board meeting videos and now this. She is very lucky that this didn't come out before Ohio.

There is nothing new about Hillary backing NAFTA. Did ABC just discover this?

"I see people bringing out their flip flops, just like they did with Kerry."

Except that Kerry's famous flip-flop was a reasoned decision based on the tax cuts which were the first during war time. He didn't think it was responsible to support a war that the Congress and the President were unwilling to pay for. I think the wisdom of his decision is becoming more apparent every day.

Dethspud-

"Just because you couldn't find anything that Obama ever sed that would make folks not want to vote for him doesn't mean you can't try to lynch him by proxy through his admittedly zany Reverend.

But that's not racism is it, Joe?"

No, it isn't. Find anything I have ever said about Obama, or anyone, that would indicate I am a racist. I have spoken about many politicians on this website, most of the time they are white. That doesn't mean I hate white people.

"Reverned Wright preaches a social justice gospel and while Spud doesn't neccessarily belief ecvvery word that falls from his mouth as being gospel Spud certainly doesn't think that the man is either a racist or an anti-American."

I'm not saying he's a racist or anti-American either. I'm saying that his church is divisive, which contradicts Obama's message of "unity." Try responding to my actual point instead of responding to whatever talking points you've heard elsewhere.

Danni-

"Then all practicing Catholics should be questioned about their tolerance of child abuse and cover-ups of child abuse. How can anyone attend a Catholic church knowing that the Bishop probably at some time covered up a sex scandal involving one or more priests???"

Perhaps that should be examined with regard to catholics, although I don't think the comparison is very accurate unless the presidential candidate were following a priest who he knew was engaging in child abuse.

"How can anyone attend a Southern Baptist church knowing full well that in times past (the not too distant past) those churches actively supported racist politicians and segregation of the races? Why didn't all members of those churches repudiate that hate filled message which was delivered loudly and often throughout the south? Any politician who attended and tolerated it without speaking out is just as guilty as Obama."

You're right. And I'd have just as much of a problem voting for a Southern Baptist as I would about voting for a person who was a member of a divisive black church.

How can anyone now attend churches which actively campaign against gays?"

I don't know. I wouldn't vote for any of those people either. As much as you want to bring up other types of churches, my point extends to all of them. If someone has been a follower of one church for 20 years, we should look at that church and what it stands for to get a better idea of who the person is that we might be voting for.

I'm saying that his church is divisive, which contradicts Obama's message of "unity."

From a report that I read at least some of the parishioners were astounded by Wright's comments, at least the more recent gaff.

Maybe some agreed, and others got caught up the spirit.

IOWs, Wright's comments were not only "divisive" without but within the congregation as well.

We have people on this site who post these conspiracy theories which are routinely debunked, or dismissed, only to come out again with "new" revelations. But being a relatively open forum there's a body of knowledge available to challenge these notions.

So to espouse publicly a belief in some wacko idea that some people hold to be true opens the door for criticism and even an opportunity to inform.

That's what has happened to Wright's statements. I'm not going to dissect them, or speculate on the responses within the church, but I see it helpful that these notions came to light.

As Obama said, we have separate dialogues depending upon the audience and participants. Knowing how blacks feel about whites, and vice versa, offers a chance for examination and even rebuttal.

Something was mentioned about AIDS being manufactured by the CIA. This belies the medical and scientific data. We are not, for instance, the only species plagued by the virus, and usually these organisms migrate from simple to complex hosts. People who don't know this, at least generally, are uninformed, and that's a crisis of ignorance.

There can be "unity" in disagreement, even controversy, as long as the two sides are talking. It only becomes "divisive" when we, as Obama pointed out, retreat to own respective corners.

It is reasonable to question Obama's response to these comments, but labeling a complex social group as "divisive" when some members apparently spoke among themselves, and even derided the comments, is a failure to seek the facts and merely engage in hyperbole.

Joe, the Catholic church is a perfect example of where people belong to the church but don't believe in all the church stands for.

Plenty of Catholics think it is despicable that the church spreads lies and misinformation in Africa about condoms. In fact there are a lot of Catholics that think using condoms is great. They also are embarrassed by the sex scandals, the rapes and the covering up of rapes and abuse. But they are still catholic. They still see the good that can be done.

It is a reasonable position that millions of Americans have made.

JOE
"Perhaps that should be examined with regard to catholics, although I don't think the comparison is very accurate unless the presidential candidate were following a priest who he knew was engaging in child abuse."

Millions of Catholics have received the sacrement of Confirmation from Bishops who everyone in the whole church knew were covering up pedophelia, even sending the offending priests to other dioceses to "sin again." That went all the way to the top to the Pope himself who has CArdinal Law still in a position of power even though it is very well known he did do cover-ups. By the logic the Obama bashers use, every Catholic should have gotten up and left their churches.

Since I spent months trying to say this to the people of Ohio and other states who backed hillary I have no sympathy for those without jobs. At least for those who are helping hillary get to the whitehouse knowing that she backed NAFTA and even stopped working on the health care program at the time so she could devote her time to helping bill get NAFTA through.

Elizabeth Edwards stated all of this on national news a long time ago and I guess it didn't matter so those who are backing hillary and still complaining because they have no jobs need to give it a rest and take responcibility for your votes.

Hil promises much and delivers little unless it benifits her and hubby!

a prerequisite to the Presidency is: You must renounce all ethics. A Christian would say, you must sell your soul to the devil. How else can the Oligarchy control or trust you?

As far as I am concerned the media has started an Obama witch-hunt and anyone who is naive enough to think that hil and bill aren't behind leaks, pictures, sermons and anything to do with wright are crazy. They get it going then let the media do the dirty work. Even after Obama's speech the media stated that it didn't matter because it is the "who you hang with" "who you associated with" and "why doesn't he just walk away?" Well, then why haven't they done the same thing to hilbillary? She has been living with and associating with a sexual predator for more years then Obama has associated with wright. She has chosen to stay with this man not because she wants to keep her family together or because she is doing what is moral but because she loves money and power. She says she is a feminist. Well bull crap because a true feminist would have kicked his cheating butt out years ago and a true feminist would have made her career worked on her own and not relied on her hubby to do it for her. A true feminist would not have 0 regard for all of the women her husband took advantage of, molested or raped (the list is long and the clintons have spent a life time trying to hide this little problem bill has and to make these women go away) and would have sent his raunchy old ass packing. She uses women to further her career and that is it! Those women that allow themselves to be used by her, deserve her!

...although I don't think the comparison is very accurate unless the presidential candidate were following a priest who he knew was engaging in child abuse.

Posted by JOE

that is pure bullshit! Do you think it was the individual child-rapist priests who settled the multi-million dollar suits? The funds to settle with the victims came from your dollars that you put in the collection plate along with district, national and vatican funds. Also, how many catholics stand up and walk out when the sermon goes to anti-abortions or anti-birth control? Most Catholics agree with the basic premise of the church but disagree with about 60% of political positions and are probably happy not to be "stepford wives" like the evangelicals are.

the uniions will be glad to hear this