Its almost impossible not to be impressed by the campaign Barack Obama has run. When problems arrise, more often than not, he deals with them honestly in a forthright manner that should give anyone doubting that he's a man of his word tremendous comfort.

I was priviledged to see him in person yesterday and he made it a point to articulate his position on government transparency and openness. He understands that the government belongs to the People and that it isn't a personal belonging of those currently sitting in power.

When we endorsed Obama for the Democratic presidential nomination Jan. 27, we said we had formed our opinions of him during 12 years of scrutiny. We concluded that the professional judgment and personal decency with which he has managed himself and his ambition distinguish him.--Chicago Tribune Editorial Staff

We know far more about Obama's personal life as it combines with his political life since 2000 than we know of Hillary's and Bill's financial arrangements and how those could compromise another Clinton term in the White House. Obama is rightly shining the light on the secrecy of the Clintons and if there's on thing we already know for sure, they cannot be trusted to give us the whole story unless we see it for ourselves.

If Obama is going to focus on Clinton's ethics, he'll have a lot of spare time on his hands.

Ah, the new politics of hope becomes the old politics of fishing expeditions into records where they have no idea what they are fishing for, just hoping to find something that will stick.

Quell surprise.

But I guess when Obama is unwilling to release his own tax records for the last decade, other than last year's, or to release documents pertaining to his dealings with the Prince of Political Fixers, Tony Rezko, in the cesspool that is Chicago politics, who happens to be on felony trial for the same, and who happens to be Obama's friend, first political financier, and mentor.... then the best defence might well be a good offence.

TY fer the MoJo article Reznweks.

Fascinating, albeit scary, reading.

Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection

A Soujorner? A member of the Fellowship? Brrr!

Niebuhr and Tillich's combination of aggressiveness in foreign affairs and limited domestic ambition naturally led Clinton toward the gop. She was a Goldwater Girl who, under the tutelage of her high school history teacher Paul Carlson (whom Jones describes as "to the right of the John Birchers"), attended biweekly anticommunist meetings and later served as president of Wellesley's Young Republicans chapter. Out of step with the era's radicalism, Clinton wrote Jones from college, lamenting that her fellow students didn't believe that one could be "a mind conservative and a heart liberal."

Hillary isn't a lefty she's a Righty Tighty in Lefty Lucy's clothing.

Is it time to start unpacking some of her multitudes of baggage yet?

She actually thinks she's been vetted already?

Think again, Hilldawg.

Be Well.

a mind conservative and a heart liberal.

God help us, another "Compassionate Conservative". We all know how the last one turned out.

"But I guess when Obama is unwilling to release his own tax records for the last decade, other than last year's,"

Obama has released his tax returns for the past 3 years - since he has been in the Senate.

It is also worthwhile to note that the Chicago Tribune last year characterized his ethics disclosure reports from 8 years in the Illinois legislature as "unusually frank".

And yesterday, after Obama sat down with reporters and editors from the Trib for over 90 minutes and answered any and all questions they had about Rezko, they concluded...

"When we endorsed Obama for the Democratic presidential nomination Jan. 27, we said we had formed our opinions of him during 12 years of scrutiny. We concluded that the professional judgment and personal decency with which he has managed himself and his ambition distinguish him.

Nothing Obama said in our editorial board room Friday diminishes that verdict."


Sorry Corky.

-Hillary isn't a lefty she's a Righty Tighty in Lefty Lucy's clothing.


Fantasy is still your best subject. But it does undermine your usually substantive non-fiction.

There is no, "secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship". There are those Sens who pray together in the Sen chapel, which she mentioned in a debate in front of millions of people that she attended with Sam Brownback.

Obama is running on working with Republicans, though he has shown less successful crossing of the aisle in national politics than either McCain or Clinton, but he is not condemned as a GOP'her in sheep's clothing.

The Obamaide strengthens as it is aged. In pickle barrels, one assumes.

IS SHE FARTING...

Oh, and The Trib also said...

"Might we all be surprised by some future disclosure? Obama's critics have waited 16 months for some new and cataclysmic Rezko moment to implicate and doom Obama. It hasn't happened."

and...

"...Barack Obama now has spoken about his ties to Tony Rezko in uncommon detail. That's a standard for candor by which other presidential candidates facing serious inquiries now can be judged."

But I guess when Obama is unwilling to release his own tax records for the last decade

Dude, the article is a few inches away:

The Illinois Democrat is also expected to make public his tax returns for several years before 2006, documents he previously has provided to the Tribune and other news organizations.

He showed them to news organizations already. He'll make them publicly available, but I doubt it will make much difference. It's not like you're going to read them. Most people would be reluctant to put their tax return on the web.

-Obama has released his tax returns for the past 3 years - since he has been in the Senate.

No, he has released last year's tax records and his Senate disclosures, as has Clinton, for his time in the Senate.

But hey, attacking Hillary's same disclosures to distract from his Pastor of 17 years, who claims that HIV is a US assault on the black population, among many other things, is just what any typical old school politician would do.

You guys are a riot.

What we found out for the first time in the Chicago paper interview is that Obama has been hiding another 100K of donations from Tony Rezko, until the newspaper actually had to publish their phone number with a plea for him to call them and answer these questions.

I still want to know if he met the Iraqi criminal businessman who gave Rezko the money to help Obama buy his house, and if Obama knew that that is where the money came from?

"and if Obama knew that that is where the money came from?"

According to the Senator, the answer is "no". So unless you have some additional information to the contrary...

What we found out for the first time in the Chicago paper interview is that Obama has been hiding another 100K of donations from Tony Rezko, until the newspaper actually had to publish their phone number with a plea for him to call them and answer these questions.

Hunh? Link Please.

-also discloses his annual taxes

Means filling out the Sen disclosure form which HRC has done for all her years in the Senate.

And if you don't think he is trying to find anything he can to distract the public from his spiritual adviser's race-baiting and race hating, then you are dumber than you look.

And from here, you don't look all that all smart.

-According to the Senator, the answer is "no". So unless you have some additional information to the contrary...

Well, don't we take all politicians at their word?

Pretty funny..... where's that Flag?

The Obama campaign initially traced, reported, and donated all funds directly from Rezko. Subsequently they have found additional funds that, although not from Rezko, might reasonably have been attributable to Rezko fundraising activities. Most, if not all of those have also been donated to charity.

Corky doesn't always pay too close attention to detail if ignoring it helps his agenda more.

"Well, don't we take all politicians at their word?

Pretty funny"

I guess we do unless there is some evidence to contradict that word. For example, I take Senator Clinton at her word that she had no idea about Norman Hsu's illegal activities, or that she really doesn't remember meeting Tony Rezko.

FYI

Clinton Communications Director Howard Wolfson also responded sharply, saying much of the Clinton tax returns over the last several years have been made public already.

"I would point out there are 20 years of the Clinton tax returns in the public record, and as far as I am aware, there is one year of Senator Obama's tax returns in the public record -- 2006," he said. "I would ask the Obama campaign if he or they are prepared to release all of his taxes when he was in elected office, so far the answer to that has been no."

The Illinois Democrat is also expected to make public his tax returns for several years before 2006, documents he previously has provided to the Tribune and other news organizations.

SA believes every word that proceeds from the Prophet's mouth, or that of his campaign, is God's Own Holy Truth.

Too late Mmike - see my Trib link above indicating Obama has released his returns for years. Now give Corky back his dollar.

"SA believes every word that proceeds from the Prophet's mouth,"

Not at all. I've asked you to provide some sort of evidence to the contrary, but you can't do it. So I've chosen to give him the benefit of the doubt, just as I did Senator Clinton on her connections with some odious fundraisers.

Your too funny when you've got nothing.

PS: Your 4:40 link didn't say anything at all to support your previous contention.

The thread is about Obama wanting to focus on Clinton's ethics, when Obama has spent the last nearly 20 years with Wright and Rezko as his spiritual and political advisers?

What color is the sky in your world?

Question what are the years of tax returns HC and BO have released to the public, have been checking and have not found a link.

"What color is the sky in your world?"

I guess little cutesy sayings will have to suffice in YOUR world in lieu of stuff like facts and evidence.

SA believes every word that proceeds from the Prophet's mouth, or that of his campaign, is God's Own Holy Truth

That a laff and a half coming from a high priest in the KlintonKuntKult like KKKorky.

You'll notice that KKKorky doesn't really have a lot of good things to say about his not-very-candid-ate so he concentrates on attacking Obama instead.

Did Hillary make kkkopies of the KKKarl Rove playbook and mail them out to all her worshippers like you KKKorky?

Did she charge you fer 'em?

Were you only too happy to pay?

How many flowers did you have to sell at the airport fer that?

Be Well.

-stuff like facts and evidence.


If you need more facts about Wright and Rezko's ethics, then you do indeed inhabit another world.

Obamaland, methinks.

"If you need more facts about Wright and Rezko's ethics,"

Nice duck there Corky. Because of course you know we weren't talking about their ethics, but Obama's. And thus far every claim you have made has been refuted with the truth and you don't have a single, solitary piece of evidence supporting your contentions. As usual.

Its interesting have any discussion about ethics with you who has demonstrated repeatedly that whatever ethics you may have once had have long since disappeared.

-that KKKorky

The rule is that the first one who mentions Hitler loses.

Same goes for the first one who is so lacking in anything intelligent to say that they resort to this kind of ad hominem demonization of their "friends".

So fuck you a whole lot, mah Tater bitch, and the mangy race-baiter you rode in on.

-we weren't talking about their ethics, but Obama's

I am just trying to imagine what you would be saying about HRC if these were her decades long spiritual and political advisers.... nope, can't quite picture the outrage and condemnation that would be issuing from your ilk.

Only in Obama World does a WH photo op equal a 17 year friend, financier, mentor relationship.

"I am just trying to imagine what you would be saying about HRC if these were her decades long spiritual and political advisers"

Contrary to the (false) picture you are trying to paint, you haven't seen me engaging in personal attacks against Hillary here. In fact, I have defended her several times against absurd charges. For example a couple of days ago on a thread about some of Dick Morris's stupid accusations.

And just on this thread I acknowledged taking her at her word on the Hsu and Rezko connection.

So, bottom line there Corky - you still got nothing, but your tap dancing is improving. Dancing with the Stars may well be in your future.

"Only in Obama World does a WH photo op"

But you see Corky - we only have Senator Clinton's word that it was only a photo op. And that's good enough for me unless there is other evidence to the contrary.

The rule is that the first one who mentions Hitler loses.

~Corky

Agreed. You lose!

Spud never mentioned Hitler.

Spud calls her Helldawg, Hellcat, Hellaciousness, Hillaburton, Hillarity, Hill the Shrill, Shrillary, ClintCo and She of the Vagina-visioned Kult Following but Spud never calls her Hitlery.

Cos that would be wrong! ^_^

mangy race-baiter

Spud playin' defense yer the one playin' offense there just like a whole shiatload of other Shrill Hill Shills and surrogates.

Wozza matter?

Sauce fer the gander not good enuff fer the goose?

Don't be a whiny hypocrite now Corky.

You can either be whiny OR a hypocrite but both at once is a little too much to take.

08ama '08.

Be Well.

/In case ya missed it, it goes like this. Reverend Wright is not a racist. Obama is not a racist. Hillary isn't really a racist but she has stooped to race baiting in this campaign and that's really kind of annoying.

Clinton ethics? That'll take 15 seconds.

"What color is the sky in your world?"

That's racist.

I'm curious as to how Corky can be so indignant over Obama reporting money raised from and by Rezko being greater than originally calculated when the Clinton relationship with Hsu started here...

"Clinton, D-N.Y., previously had planned only to give to charity $23,000 she received from Hsu for her presidential and senatorial campaigns and to her political action committee, HillPac."

and ended up here...

"Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson said in a statement Monday night. 'An estimated 260 donors this week will receive refunds totaling approximately $850,000 from the campaign.'"

Only in Hillary-world does Howard Wolfson say 20 years of Clinton tax returns are public and yet there are still some that aren't because she is too busy.

If I were Hillary, and thank Whomever I'm not, I would have fired Howard Wolfson and Mark Penn and Harold Ickes and Ann Lewis before I even started running for President.

And that she hired them instead is a classic example of the kind of administration she would have around her.

"Let's see what comes out in the next few days" in her memorable words.

Ah, the new politics of hope becomes the old politics of fishing expeditions into records where they have no idea what they are fishing for, just hoping to find something that will stick.

Quell surprise.

So let me get this straight. Asking the very same questions of Clinton that you are asking of Obama re. financial disclosures, donors, etc. is " the old politics of fishing expeditions" if Obama does it.

The hypocracy runs strong in you.

-Don't be a whiny hypocrite now Corky.

I didn't come on here and associate you with the KKK, mah starchy lil' bitch.

Wright is a race-baiter and a racist. Obama is only a race-baiter, as Timmah showed us all on national TV when he waved Obama's race-baiting memos under his nose.

-Spud playin' defense

Spud needs to learn to do it without initiating ad hominem attacks on his friends, which only makes Spud's positions look weak and his friendship worthless.

Both the WaPo and the Trib have his returns since 2004. See links above.

Everybody should release every document related to their income and donors for the entire period of their public lives. Then we can move on to talking about how McCain is just like Bush, but older.

Damnnnnnnnnnnn the KRUSTS Graduate is in full force today. Such a shame really

Larry Mohr

Is it true that Hillary's tax returns SINCE 2000 have not been released?

Only the required Disclosures?

=Both the WaPo and the Trib have his returns since 2004. See links above.

They are the public now?

Pathetic.

A Clinton and ethics in the same sentence?

That's oxymoronic.

"=Both the WaPo and the Trib have his returns since 2004. See links above.

They are the public now?

Pathetic.


Posted by Corky"

OMG. That is most likely the stupidest thing you have posted, in a long line of stupid posts.

LMFAO at you.

Howard Wolfson again- there you go Howard!

What color is the sky in your world?


Posted by Corky

Blue with a single cloud...about the same shade as Monica's dress.

Posted by sitdown at 2008-03-16 05:25 PM
Is it true that Hillary's tax returns SINCE 2000 have not been released?
Only the required Disclosures?

Been away checking the "internets", sitdown you are right corroborates the info I have found.

Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., is poised to release her tax returns "on or around April 15," Clinton's communications director Howard Wolfson

From what I understand should be all her returns 2000-2006

Posted by sitdown at 2008-03-16 05:25 PM
Is it true that Hillary's tax returns SINCE 2000 have not been released?
Only the required Disclosures?

Been away checking the "internets", sitdown you are right corroborates the info I have found.

Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., is poised to release her tax returns "on or around April 15," Clinton's communications director Howard Wolfson

From what I understand should be all her returns 2000-2006

Hillary goes to a Black Church and does the preaching.
Obama goes to a Black Church and listens to a racist.

Now who is going to get my vote?

so does this mean that the obama campaign will be contacting me soon.
I can give them every clinton 'deflection' in the book.....LOL

Too late Mmike - see my Trib link above indicating Obama has released his returns for years. Now give Corky back his dollar.
Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2008-03-16 04:43 PM

Saw the link and others ...

SAR, this is the info I FOUND concerning BO tax returns, that he made 2006 public and gave the others to the papers to review, if true hardly for PUBLIC consumption.

"The Illinois Democrat is also expected to make public his tax returns for several years before 2006, documents he previously has provided to the Tribune and other news organizations."

Also: By Bob Secter | Tribune staff reporter
6:54 PM CDT, April 16, 2007
Obama released only Form 1040 from his tax return and not underlying attachments, which provide detail about income and spending.

Michael Dobbs Washington post .com
By contrast, Obama has released the form 1040 portion of his tax return (but not the entire return) since he first ran for the Senate from Illinois in 2004. This contradicts the statement above; do not know which is correct.

Good for him releasing his 1040 Form compared to HC not releasing any tax return since 2000 just her Senate financial statements as he has.

Hope no one jumps on HC statements if they to are JUST 1040 Forms without any specifics.

SAR as to the $1.00 why does Corky owe me, because I have not got it yet would like to buy a couple of pints of gas.

AU - thanks for posting that - I hadn't seen it.

I am a long time member of the UCC. The history of the denomination runs back through the old Congregationalist Churches - you know, the Pilgrims. They were also among the first abolitionists. You might even remember them featured in the film Amistad.

At any rate, I have had the opportunity to attend Trinity on 3 occasions. My experience was very similar to Rev. Hoffman's. I found a warm, open environment, welcoming and vibrant.

Without a doubt some of Wright's comments are way over the top. But I didn't hear or see anything like that the times I was there. I can't explain what we've seen and heard the past few days but I do know it does not seem to be in keeping with the attitude of the congregation there.

and yet with every violent and hate filled rampage, the crowd stood and yelled and cheered.
and thats not an exageration...I watched and heard the crowd reaction.

When bad news comes out--Deflect to the opponent.

"Rock" Obama--new name as his poll number s are dropping like a rock, needs to deflect his racist pastor story with his plan to attack Hillary.

Now that some folks have attended Wright's church and know about Wright's racism--will you return to that church?

Murphy

"will you return to that church?"

Yes. Because as I stated I saw, felt, and heard nothing of the sort there on my visits. And Wright has retired.

He was in the pulpit on 2 of my 3 times there. The first time his sermon revolved mostly around railing at Black people to stop waiting around for someone to give them something, and work for it themselves. He also talked about how Black men needed to get their acts together and stay out of jail and take care of their families.

San--

Now that you reveiwed the above videos--will you continue to attend that church?


Murphy

Obama has the dumb excuse of staying with this church for political expediency--lots of voters in the congregation.

But what is your excuse to be there?


Murphy

Hey Murphy,

How About These Golden Ones From The Rev. Pat Robertson, Should Bush Resign Since He Was Endorsed By Him Twice?

Here You Go:

"God considers this land to be his. You read the Bible and he says 'This is my land,' and for any prime minister of Israel who decides he is going to carve it up and give it away, God says, 'No, this is mine.' ... He was dividing God's land. And I would say, 'Woe unto any prime minister of Israel who takes a similar course to appease the E.U., the United Nations, or the United States of America.' God says, 'This land belongs to me. You better leave it alone.'"

--Pat Robertson, on why Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon suffered a massive stroke

How About Destroying And Murdering The State Department

"Maybe we need a very small nuke thrown off on Foggy Bottom to shake things up"

Pat Robertson, on nuking the State Department

"You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war ... We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator. It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with."

Pat Robertson, calling for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez

Bonus Stupid Quote:

"Wait a minute, I didn't say 'assassination.' I said our special forces should 'take him out,' and 'take him out' can be a number of things, including kidnapping."

Pat Robertson, clarifying his call to assassinate Hugo Chavez

Extra Bonus Stupid Quote:

"Is it right to call for assassination? No, and I apologize for that statement. I spoke in frustration that we should accommodate the man who thinks the U.S. is out to kill him."
Pat Robertson

Oh When Pat Robertson Spews Hate It Is OK Though, Right?

-Sarge

As Jon Stewart says, "uhmm, goood"

"will you continue to attend that church?"

I said yes. If I am visiting Chicago and have the opportunity I will. Which part of that wasn't clear?

I am not going by video tape or print article, I am going by what I saw, heard, and felt when actually being there among the people. If you find that shocking or frightening, tough.

And once again, Wright has retired and isn't there anymore.

Oh Here Are Some Of God's Wrath Pat Robertson Is Putting On Our Fellow Americans:

"I would warn Orlando that you're right in the way of some serious hurricanes, and I don't think I'd be waving those flags in God's face if I were you, This is not a message of hate -- this is a message of redemption. But a condition like this will bring about the destruction of your nation. It'll bring about terrorist bombs; it'll bring earthquakes, tornadoes, and possibly a meteor."

Pat Robertson, on "gay days" at Disneyworld

"I'd like to say to the good citizens of Dover: If there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to God, you just rejected him from your city. And don't wonder why he hasn't helped you when problems begin, if they begin. I'm not saying they will, but if they do, just remember, you just voted God out of your city. And if that's the case, don't ask for his help because he might not be there."

--Pat Robertson, after the city of Dover, Pennsylvania voted to boot the current school board, which instituted an intelligent design policy that led to a federal trial

Oh Here Is His Great Love Of Women:

"The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians."

Pat Robertson

"I know this is painful for the ladies to hear, but if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. Christ is the head of the household and the husband is the head of the wife, and that's the way it is, period."

Pat Robertson

Here Is Pat Praying For The Death Of Judges:

"Lord, give us righteous judges who will not try to legislate and dominate this society. Take control, Lord! We ask for additional vacancies on the court." Pat Robertson

Oh Is The 700 Club Still On The Air How Many Millions Of Followers Does He Have. How Many Politicians Has He Endorsed, Why Does He have One On One Meetings With Bush ?

-Sarge

The Clinton's have no ethics? How's he going to do that?

Saying Hillary Clinton has executive experience is like saying Yoko Ono was a Beatle

So it seems Obama was in church those days that he said he wasn't...check it out:

JOSEPHINE

I went to your link. Here's what I got:

"Sorry, the page you requested could not be found."

Must have been a spoof or something....

yeah you do that Ken Starr..

I mean obama.


A phrase farmers like to use is:

" Don't mud wrestle with a pig..you get dirty and the pig likes it"

Obama...Did you ever hear of the saying that "people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones"?

How you Obama supporters buy into his BS is beyond me.

Obama said he didnt know about his dirty friend Tony Rezko.

Obama said he didnt know about his hate filled and prejudice Pastor, Mentor and friend.

Give me a break. For being so smart, Obama doesnt seem to know too much.

Its one thing to have a financial supporter that you do not know anything about, but Obama's relationship with Rezko was also on the personal side. Maybe its just a coincidence that Obama bought his home right next store to a lot that Rezko owned. Maybe it was just a coincidence that they bought the properties at the same time and they just ended up being right next store to each other. I guess I can believe that...Chicago is a small town and just a few properties to choose from. I'm sure it wasnt planned.

Just like Obama chose his church...Chicago is a small town and there are just a few Churches to choose from.

Just like Obama chose his Pastor, Mentor and Friend. Just a few people in Chicago to pick from, so its just a coincidence that he chose someone who is prejudice and hates America. How was he supposed to know?

People who I have chosen to be my Mentor and Friends of almost 20 years, I really know nothing about them. Does anyone know anything about their own close friends? Their beliefs? Their politics?

Yes...we all know a lot about our closest friends and mentors...thats how we connect.

If I chose someone to be my Mentor its because I agree with their beliefs, not because I totally disagree with them. If I chose the Grand Wizard of the KKK to be my friend and mentor, what does that say about me?

Obama = Change = NOT...same old dirty politics.

"If I chose the Grand Wizard of the KKK to be my friend and mentor, what does that say about me? "

You're a Republican.

"If I chose the Grand Wizard of the KKK to be my friend and mentor, what does that say about me? "

You're a Republican.

Posted by Danforth

you mean like Byrd? I didn't know he was republican.

"you mean like Byrd?"

Byrd has renounced his past. I mean like David Duke, or some of the Ron Paul supporters.

DANFORTH...

You are just like the people I mentioned in my prior posting...gullible.

So Byrd has renounced his past. I'm sure he meant it. This guy was a high ranking officer in the KKK...you have to have a lot of hatred to get to that level. But he renounced it, so all is forgiven.

I have a bridge to sell you...

They always forget about Byrd while they are getting upity. Everytime, bless their hearts.

wonder how many lynchings he participated in. This is not forgivable.

"But he renounced it, so all is forgiven."

Find where David Duke renounced it, and we're equal. Until then, look to how McCain "renounced" the Keating situation.

"You are just like the people I mentioned in my prior posting...gullible."

And you believe John McCain (Bomb Iran! More tax cuts for the wealthiest! Illegals for cheap labor!) is an agent of change.

"This guy was a high ranking officer in the KKK..."

With each re-telling by wingnuts Byrd's 1943-1944 membership in the Klan and his support for it (as a mid-to-late 20s young man) keeps growing in importance. His leadership position in a local chapter becomes "...a high ranking officer in the KKK..." with no "local" context, of course.

Meanwhile:

Saying Hillary Clinton has executive experience is like saying Yoko Ono was a Beatle

Good one AU

Yoko DESTROYED the Beatles!

The funny thing here is that I can't find a single post about the thread's actual relevance. Focusing on Clinton's ethics was supposed to be about her lack of transparency over records accounting for all these years of experience she's claiming daily on the campaign trail.

If Hillary claims "35 years of experience" then she needs to open up 35 years of documentation recounting said experience. No one opened her big mouth but for herself, and now she has to live with the results. It is not too much to ask politicians that have been in the public eye for over 2 decades to let the public know just who the donors of hundreds of millions of dollars to both the Clinton Foundation and the Clinton Library actually are so that the people can see whether certain donations have the appearance of a quid pro quo.

I get tired of all the associations to Obama and Rezko without the accurate portrayal that Rezko wasn't always involved in criminal behavior. He actually was doing the work of building in the inner city and providing living quarters for the most ignored in our society. It wasn't like he was bringing in drugs and pushing midnight basketball. I've yet to see any Clinton supporters who 've tried to help the needy in the ways Rezko and his associates did before they chose to cut corners and break the law.

Obama wants to open up all the governments doings so we citizens can watch and keep track of just where the money is going, and when lobbyists meet with White House officials, it will be done before cameras so that all can see just what transpires. Hillary Clinton has NEVER championed the kind of access that Barack Obama has made central to his hopeful Administration. Why not discuss the merits or lack thereof of the things that should really matter moving forward instead of the idiotic scandal-mongering which only distracts from what's truly important?

"How About These Golden Ones From The Rev. Pat Robertson, Should Bush Resign Since He Was Endorsed By Him Twice?"
--SARGE

Did Bush privately pray with Robertson before announcing his run for President, faithfully attend his congregation for over a decade, refer to him as a spiritual mentor in a book, etc...?

Wright isn't some national figure that endorsed a candidate. He's Obama's close friend, spiritual guide, and mentor, and by attending his sermons for so long, and allowing him to be such a strong force in his life, Obama might as well agree with everything he says. 'Cuz if Obama thought Wright was a loon, he wouldn't let him be so connected in something so personal as his spiritual life.

What is Corky going to do if Hillary loses?

DANFORTH

Please show me where I listed that I am a McCain fan or that I believed McCain. Do you automatically assume that if someone does not trust Obama then they MUST be a McCain supporter?

Please do not try to connect the dots for me.

Its obvious that you really do not have any answers to my original post, thats why you keep changing the subject.

And Danforth no doubt that amnesty for illegals is something McCain stands for and one reason I am not a big fan of his, but remember amnesty is really more of a liberal / democratic goal. Most Dem's want amnesty because hispanics vote Democratic for the most part.

As far as Tax Cuts for the wealthy, please explain how you would like it to be? Why should some people pay 30% / 40% of every dollar they earn for taxes and some people pay less than 10% of every dollar they earn. And now you want to reward the people that pay less than 10%. Why? Because your one of them?

I'm no fan of McCain, but it's pretty obvious he's gonna cake walk into the oval office.

What is Corky going to do if Hillary loses?

Hillary has already lost because her campaign wasn't prepared for post-Super Tuesday and Obama has an insurmountable lead in pledged delegates. She and Corky are just too stubborn to admit the truth.

"amnesty is really more of a liberal / democratic goal. "

Come back to reality. Bush and McCain were both huge supporters.

"As far as Tax Cuts for the wealthy, please explain how you would like it to be?"

Fairer.

"Why should some people pay 30% / 40% of every dollar they earn for taxes and some people pay less than 10% of every dollar they earn."

No one does. You're talking income tax and not all taxes. Once that's considered, everyone pays about 17-21% of their income in taxes.

"And now you want to reward the people that pay less than 10%."

Nonsense. I know enough to know the vast majority of the Bush tax cuts went to the wealthiest. Everyone who makes more than $350K got an income tax rate cut of over 60% on their dividend income. I also know we're slated to borrow billions and billions of dollars in 2010 so we can repeal an estate tax that only effects multi-mulit millionaires and billionaires. And I know that during Bush's one administration, we went from having to fork over 11% of our annual budget to service the debt to 16.7%, an alarming increase of over 50%. Are you paying attention?

"Why? Because your(sic) one of them?"

Don't be an idiot. I've made a huge killing every year since Bush took office, betting against everything he says. Bush says he wants a strong dollar? Bet against it. Bush says the market is good? Sell. It's almost enough to wish for four more years.

Oh, and if you're paying close attention, you'll notice Cheney has been betting against Bush, too.

Until those who find Rev. Wright's FACTUAL comments so egregious find the same animus for the ilk of Robertson and Falwell, who claimed that America deserved 9/11 because of gays, liberals and the left agenda, all I hear is a lot of noise by ignorant people that refuse to admit America was built on violence and bigotry in the first place.

It doesn't mean everything is bad, but its ludicrous to view the impassioned words of a singular preacher more negatively than our history of killing, lying, and the abject subjegation of the Native Americans, who rightfully owned what we now call America before it was taken from them by the forces of violence against their wills.

Selective outrage is just that, selective. And those propagating it need to address the other three fingers of blame pointed directly back at them as they point their index finger at Rev. Wright.

Until you retards can figure out that unless Robertson and Falwell are McCain's surrogate father for the past 20 years then they have no business in the conversation.

An endorsement is one thing, but we all know Obama and Wright are another.

Not everyone drinks the Obama-aide, once you sycophants realize that you'll be better off.

Danforth...

As you know we've been over this ground time and time again, and the ignorant still believe the fallacy of their beloved "trickle-down" heresy.

Poorer people spend every dollar they earn and they pay TAXES on every purchase except some exempted foods. When the complete tax burden is examined, those with the least pay the HIGHEST percentage of their incomes in taxes even if they have little or no federal income tax burden.

Here's the disconnect far too many remain oblivious of:

From 2000-2006, the 124 million American, non-supervisory workers increased their productivity by 19%. During this same period, they received an additional $200 million in compensation. This amounts to an average of $1.66 for the entire seven year period! Compare that to just the BONUSES paid out by the top 5 Wall Street firms which amounted in excess of $38 BILLION!

Just what did Wall Street produce to create this money? Not a single damn thing! And what percentage in income taxes are paid by hedge fund managers? 5 Percent! Kindly explain how thats fair to the American worker who's had their own increasing productivity exploited.

I tire of idiots that don't realize those at the top have always exploited the worker unless organized labor and federal/state regulatory agencies have the strength to make them play much fairer than we've seen this decade.

"An endorsement is one thing, but we all know Obama and Wright are another."
--101CHAIRBORNE

Obama was a sheep in the shepherd Wright's flock. Regardless of whether or not Wright's words have merit, trying to distance Obama from him is bull shit.

Endorsement /= "private" prayer sessions, baptism, and decades of faithfully bleating in the pastor's own congregation

Tonyroma,

The fairness in the American system lies in the fact that anyone with the brains and ambition can become a hedge-fund manager or some other such money-making person.

Those who work as pack mules are paid as such. If they don't like that, study harder and think ahead.

It's fair in opportunity....outcomes are up to individuals...I know, you socialists don't understand that...but there it is.

It has nothing to do with whatever occupation anyone chooses. It has to do with the fact income should be treated and taxed as income when its income.

That you would argue such a fundamental underpinning of fairness in America is as appalling as you trying to deflect from its significance!

DEMOCRATS,

I look at this thread and I just laugh.

You can't yourselves pick a nominee....What makes you think either one of these frauds is going to get elected? You all hate each other. Can't agree on anything or even what the basic facts are or even what the important issues are. You've picked which cult figure you will worship (I see a disturbing lack of support for AlGore in these comments!)and everything else, be it facts or issue, is irrelevant.

Fortunately, most Americans don't think this way. McCain will be elected because he's the only actual candidate. Too bad for us....The Republicans would put out better candidates of they had to..

At the end of this election, after whichever of these two frauds has lost to an old fossil, I want you to seriously reconsider your worldviews and the way you think of politics.

I also want you to get productive jobs.

I'm off now. Very busy trying to find AlGore.

Tonyroma,

The income tax is not an American notion. It is a socialist notion and showed up long after we'd economically stabilized. It is an abomination. It has led directly to class warfare and a corrupt, indesipherable tax code which disincentivizes working and saving. It makes our companies uncompetitive internationally, which costs us jobs.

There is nothing fair about it.

" which disincentivizes working and saving."

Which tax code are you referencing? The one I know cuts the tax rates for working folks making over $102,000 and incentivizes savings even more at the upper rates, especially with the new, higher Individual 401(k) limits and higher defined benefit contribution limits.

"There is nothing fair about it."

You wrote earlier of American opportunities: the income tax code allows any taxpayer ways to opt out. What could be fairer?

So Tony Roma, poor people pay taxes on everything they buy right? Middle class and the rich also pay taxes on everything they buy. I'm not sure if you are rich or poor but please let me know where you shop, I want the tax free store.

As usual with those who think they know it all, you've completely missed my point. Income taxes are only one part of the equation, and they're the part given far too much talk when they don't account for the overall tax burden.

Yes, everyone pays taxes on what they consume, but when you consume 100% of your income you pay taxes on 100% of your income. I'm not advocating tax-free stores, numbnutz, I'm making a point. All those you claim don't pay income tax still have their money taxed at every point of their lives. Rents (property taxes), bus fare (fuel taxes) utilities (various taxes), clothes (sales taxes), even banking (user fees going to private corps, but taxes nonetheless) you name it, is taxed. This is not true for those who use portions of their incomes on investments that give returns.

The taxes paid on Unemployment Compensation are HIGHER than the taxes paid on the work of invested money. We have a system that rewards the work of money with lower rates of taxation than the work of PEOPLE. Now tell me where that fits on your faulty taxation continuum?

Danforth,

If you tax income before money can even be saved, then tax the money made from investments once it's saved, you are disincentivizing savings and investment.

Tax rates are higher for higher incomes. It is particularly difficult to work your way out of the low bracket, because if you work two or three jobs to get your family above poverty level, you are much more heavily taxed than if you decide to stay under that level. Disincentiving poor people working is a fatal error for any society, because it leads to generational poverty, rather than temporary poverty.

I know, you believe that all income should pass through the government's hands so that it can "fairly" distribute it to everyone. I know, you see groups instead of individuals and equate government spending with prosperity. As a good socialist, you should. Hitler certainly agreed.

This system has never sat well in America, however, because we are a nation built primarily by independent, ambitious people who had the balls to leave the comfortable poverty or oppression they were under in Europe or Mexico or China or Japan. At least, that was true for the first-generation immigrants. Africans are a different matter....they didn't come voluntarily.

The rise of socialism in the 30's and its warped growth since has eroded some of this spirit, and there are more leaches now than there were then, but fundamentally at heart, we are still an optimistic, ambitious, independent country. We just tend to be poorly educated.

Repeal of this tax code and replacing it with something like the FairTax would free Americans up to act like Americans again while giving our companies a level playing field on which to compete. Then, our natural productivity advantage over any other worker in the world would lead us back to prosperity for most.

The Democrats should have run on that. Obama could have pulled it off, at least before knowledge of his wacko racist pastor came out. Oh well, another missed opportunity for the Dems.

Danforth

Now I get it. First you feel that anyone who disagrees with you is a "know it all". Hmmmm, what does that make you? The same?

Secondly it was very hurtful that you called me a name. Numbnutz...ouch.

Most people who are wealthy or upper middle class worked their butts off to get there. They went to school, got an education and worked their way up the corporate ladder.

Most people who are poor have done the exact opposite. They work in factories or retail outlets and do not take the nessessary steps to move their career forward. Many are just too lazy or unmotivated.

Obviously there are exceptions to both rules. Some poor had terrible unforeseen circumstances happen to them and some rich were born into the money.

Regardless, in your eyes we must reward the unmotivated and punish the motivated. I get it.

"What income group pays the most federal income taxes today?"

That only talks about INCOME taxes, not all the other taxes, virtually all of which are regressive.

"If you tax income before money can even be saved, then tax the money made from investments once it's saved, you are disincentivizing savings and investment. "

That certainly depends on how you look at the system, especially compared to the prior system or other systems. Assuming a 5% state rate, someone making $29,000 a year and contributing $1,000 to her retirement account will see an increased refund of $200. But someone making $49,000 and putting in $1000 will see her refund increase by $300. That's a greater incentive for the wealthier person to save.

"Tax rates are higher for higher incomes. "

You're also talking about INCOME taxes only. The person in America paying the highest percentage of his income in ALL taxes isn't the millionaire, or the billionaire. It's the W-2 earner making $102,000 a year.

"I know, you believe that all income should pass through the government's hands so that it can "fairly" distribute it to everyone."

Nonsense. I just believe 60% rate cuts for the richest during wartime and while running the largest deficits known to man might not be the most fiscally prudent road. You?

"something like the FairTax..."

I'd love something simple and fair. Unfortunately, the FT is neither. And its use of bogus formulae is unconscionable.

" First you feel that anyone who disagrees with you is a "know it all". Hmmmm, what does that make you?"

Someone who actually aced Economics.

"Secondly it was very hurtful that you called me a name. Numbnutz...ouch."

That wasn't me.

"Regardless, in your eyes we must reward the unmotivated and punish the motivated. I get it. "

Can't debate without making up my positions, can you? All I wrote was the tax code has become much more tilted toward the rich under Bush. If you think that's untrue, well...there's no hope. But if you really want some grist, try this: in some cases, we tax wages more than double what we tax dividends or LTCG. Hell, in some cases we tax unemployment more than double what we tax dividends or LTCG. Now...what were you saying about punishing?

Danforth,

Yes,,,I and WE were talking about Income Tax...

As far as deficits go, why don't we spend less rather than steal money that is rightfully someone else's?

How 'bout we don't tax income or investment income ?....Income is mine, not the government's...so are my investments

I don't find the FairTax complicated at all...I get my full paycheck...I pay a tax on stuff I buy...if I save instead, I'm not taxed...sounds easy....Not only is it simple...it is PRINCIPLED!

....sales tax for all...

Then, all can save and invest efficiently enough that we can take the government out of the retirement business in the long run and end Social Security...one of our largest chunks of federal spending...

We might even be able to save for medical emergencies or afford insurance premiums ourself without having the government come in and make care worse and more expensive...

"Yes,,,I and WE were talking about Income Tax..."

You were talking about comparative tax burden, without taking ALL taxes into account. That's uneducated at best, purposefully misleading at worst.

"As far as deficits go, why don't we spend less..."

Fine by me...I'm just wondering why the good Republican businessmen didn't negotiate for 40 million what 40 can get: a volume discount on prescription drugs.

"... rather than steal money that is rightfully someone else's?"

Sorry, that doesn't fly while we're running deficit budgets. As long as we're doing that, the question is who's benefiting the most from all this borrowing, and if you know anything about this tax code and how it compares to others, it's easy to see it's the wealthiest. Do you realize in 2010 we're slated to borrow billions and billions of dollars so we can repeal a tax that only affects multi-millionaires and billionaires? If you're looking for stealing, we're stealing money from our kids piggy banks while they're sleeping.

"How 'bout we don't tax income or investment income ?"

And tax what instead?

"I don't find the FairTax complicated at all...I get my full paycheck...I pay a tax on stuff I buy"

If a computer costs $1000 the day before the FT is implemented, what will it cost the day after?

"and end Social Security...one of our largest chunks of federal spending..."

Not at this point. In fact, right now it's a huge cash cow. (The trend is slated to reverse in 2011 and begin cutting into the budget after 2016.) Currently, the overcollections are used to mask the debt, so Clinton could crow he "balanced the budget" (he didn't) and George Bush could make the largest deficits in all recorded history look somewhat smaller than they truly were.

"We might even be able to save for medical emergencies or afford insurance premiums ourself without having the government come in and make care worse and more expensive..."

Anyone who crunches large numbers will tell you UHS is coming, economies of scale will require it. And every study shows prevention is much cheaper than cure...look at the rise of wellness programs in health plans despite cutbacks in other areas. The economics of the medical needs of the baby boomer generation will eventually force the country into a single-payer system.

tomorrow when he talks about Wright in PA, Obama will either have to:

a) lie or
b) admit his own past ties to the Black Panthers and nation of islam.

and neither option will come off too well.

sit back, hillary, and wait.........

Obama announcing his speech: "I,I,I,I,I will,...I,I I I,I...will talk about that tomorrow"

Does he stutter without a teleprompter?

Yeah Fredo, Obama has a lot to be worried about.


Posted by tonyroma at 2008-03-17 07:13 PM

Tony,
This is just the beginning and Obama is starting to feel the heat. The press is finally doing its job and has caught up with the blogs. Hell the RNC hasn't even thrown a punch and we are 8 months out from the election. Have you figured out how BHO is going to get around his election to the Senate being given to him because of the Trib prinitng some fishy articles about Obamas opponents divorces? You don' think that will come up?

Crispee...

When one compares Obama's past to the two candidates he's running against I see little of substance that he needs to be concerned about. You mention the actions of others, not those of Obama. I trust that his speech tomorrow may be the most important one so far in his career, and I have little doubt he will assuage the misgivings of those who want to support him but have been troubled by these recent developements.

Check back this time tomorrow and we can compare notes.

In all these years of both the Chicago Tribune and Sun-Times exploring the Rezko connection without ever having shown Obama to have either benefited or done anything wrong I wouldn't hold my breat. Guilt by association is not guilt. I know people who've done wrong things. Geez, they didn't tell me first, and in some cases later.

Post ONE thing Obama has done that somehow ties in his minister's two statements out of thousands of sermons to some wrong Christian, ethical, or radical statement or action to him.

Post ONE instance where Obama benefited by his connection to Rezko in an inapporpriate way.

The right (and Corky) are making a case based on innuendo without a single instance of wrongdoing by Obama they can point to.

Shit, I had evangelical ministers while I was growing up that make Wright look like Billy Graham. They POUNDED the pulpit and shouted you ALL were sinners and bad people if you weren't "one of us". In private, they were thoughtful listeners who gave me good advice.

Um have you seen Real estate prices in Chicago and then looked at what the Obama's paid??????

If guilt by association is not guilt then why is it called GUILT still.

Shit, I had evangelical ministers while I was growing up that make Wright look like Billy Graham.


and Billy Grahm was a divisive Homophobe. Your point?

Shit, I had evangelical ministers while I was growing up that make Wright look like Billy Graham.


and Billy Grahm was a divisive Homophobe. Your point?

If guilt by association is not guilt then why is it called GUILT still.

'Cause some people ain't 'Got Truth'.

This is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Obama is a Clinton type liar, having learned from the ia sexual predator, Bill Clinton, by attacking the characters of a series of women abused by Clinton. Clinton lied and denied, and parsed, what "is" is

Now Obama is attacking Clinton's ethics, when he himself lives in a sewer of racial hatred, and political corruption and payoffs. On the Lehrer Report, Obama was the beneficiary of a "puff piece" interview by a black female interviewer in which he suggested that his being black was the reason for opposition to him. Of course, he lied as the opposition is not related to his being black, but to his history as a black racist, and a corrupt politician taking payoffs.

He asserts that he has opposed the war from the get go and wanted to withdraw from the get go, yet the day after his speech at the Democrat convention in 2004, he forthrightly stated that he supported the war. Is he a liar, or does he suffer memory lapses? It seems that he has a selective memory.

As for Clinton ethics, there's a subject to mine. Of course, the glib liar Obama suggests that he hasn't received a political payoff. How about the $300,000 from the Chicago political fixer Rezko, who is now on trial? Oops. An error in judgment? m error in judgment defense avoids the fact that the "error in judgment" in receiving a payoff is usually crooked, and off he sc, a payment to a corrupt politician, payback for influence? How many other "friends" had Rezko "helped" in this way? what it just gratuitous? Wanna buy a bridge?

Both Obama and Clinton are covered with slime.They're career politicians. It's similar to the series of sexual revelations concerning politicians. Going off the straight and narrow seems quite common. And most of the politicians seem to be crooks as their mentality and egotism makes them "worthy" of "help" from friends that, of course, has no relation to their political positions. Yeah.

Ethics in the community consist of clear plastic couch covers to keep off the fried chicken grease and blood stains.

Obamas speech this morn wil eith make or break him. I am leaning tword break.

Obama's stance on Iraq. I am against the war but here is the check book. I will continue to keep voting with the rest of my Democrats and pay for this war, as long as I can use it as a talking point. I will hold Clinton personally responsible for the war as long as people don't mind me saying one thing but voting another way. My good judgment allowed me to be against the war in 2002 but for Tony Rezko and attend my seperatist church.

The emperor is not wearing new clothes.

Clintons have no ethics. Attacking Clinton ethics is like shooting fish in a barrel. It's just too easy.

Hillary's long "experience" is related to strictly being Bill's wife! If so, let's talk about being IMPEACHED, affairs, Whitewater, stolen furniture form the White House, last minute in the dark pardons (141 pardons and 36 commutations, disbarment) on his last day in office, travelgate, illegal fundraising from Chinese officials, and on and on and on. Barack is going to have an easy time with sweeping away the remainder of the shattered Clinton campaign.

Of course some libs may not like the following bills signed into law from Bill Clinton: 1. (1996-09-21) Defense of Marriage Act, allowed states to refuse recognition of certain same-sex marriages, and defined marriage as between a male and female for purposes of federal law. 2. (1994-09-13) - Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, part of an omnibus crime bill, the federal death penalty was expanded to some 60 different offenses. How about Extraordinary rendition got approval for the first time in the USA from the Clinton administration? Love it. Love it. Love it.