We should recall that the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr., who is honored with a national holiday and politicians including George W. Bush and John McCain have paid homage to his memory, in April 1967 called the United States "the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today." In my opinion, Reverend Wright says nothing in the taped vignettes I've seen on TV that is untrue about America, despite the "tut-tutting" of liberals and conservatives among the chattering class. Obama showed that he is nimble in taking care of potential pitfalls in his campaign and that shows he would be a great candidate in the general election against the Republican smear-meisters.

The controversy over Wright's comments further underscores this nation's inability to deal with the realities of our existence. There can be no doubt that America exports and partakes in violence in other nations, yet we feel the ends justify the means for our own security. We cannot deny that untold thousands upon thousands continue to lose their lives over a conflagration we started without provocation. This does not mean our soldiers are all souless killers.

For all that is rightly celebrated about America, there are many things ignored that have never been causes for celebration. Our history is complicated, it isn't encompassed within simple patriotic songs. Talking about these things shouldn't result in immediate scorn. We all need to see America's past both in its glory and in the misery, death and destruction done in its name as well. It isn't just right, its the American thing to do.

On the defensive these days. Huh Tony? Every media source I know of has been attacking him these days. Before you know it, they'll have the remaining primary voters think he has ties to Al-Queda and the mob underworld.

The days of glory are behind us. All that remains is war and economic collapse. The Jews of Nazi Germany refused to see it coming too.

Ray...

The problems our nation faces requires even more cooperation and sense of community, or we'll likely see a rise in anarchy and violence.

Obama is going to pass this test just fine because Hillary is still Hillary, and her brand of poison is just that, poison. John McCain is merely a third term for Bush, and as soon as the Democratic immolation ceases, his numbers will start heading toward Bush's.

Tony,

You're spot on,man. This discussion will ultimately lead to the kind of useful scrutiny of our actions and their consequences both positive and otherwise that will lead to the continued greatness of this country.

The past seven years are the perfect example of pursuing a foreign and domestic policy that is blind to the past and without international historic perspective .

Continue the vetting boys. Its good for everyone.

Tony
There is no connect between what this nation requires and what it is going to get. The social and economic forces have built up an inertia that can't be stopped.

We have anarchy and violence now from the very institution you hold on a pedestal - government. I'm sure you've been noticing the media attacking your boy like a pack of wolves. They don't trust him. And if by some remote chance he gets the presidency and dare try to be the reformer you imagine, they'll tear him apart until or unless he goes along with the pack. You're dealing with a subject you have no grasp of.

Ray...

I respectfully disagree with you because the mounting evidence supports my position and not yours.

I just left an Obama town hall meeting in Plainfield, Indiana, a suburb of Indianapolis. The doors opened at 12.30pm but Obama didn't come on stage until 2.30pm. One had to be a paid contributer in order to have received the e-mail announcing ticket allocation. Over 3000 tickets were gone in 15 minutes.

I do not worship nor respect government because government is only what the people make it. The amount of money which Obama has raised is astounding, and record breaking and we haven't even gotten to the general election. This is why I know that you are wrong Ray. This nation wouldn't exist if people didn't join together and stand united for what they believe. I'm cynical too, but I saw a complete cross-section of America today and it saw itself here in the not-quite-cosmopolitian midwest.

There were whites, blacks, latinos, Indians, Asians, every ethnic group you could think of. One of the first questions was about the enormity of the problems facing this nation and what plans did Obama have for confronting them. No one is delusional. Everyone has their eyes wide open. People are tired of being told what can't be done and ready to join together to make the changes we need. I will never give up on humanity because its all we've got.

At the rally did you catch Obama saying he was gonna reduce the cost of health insurance by $2,500 per family per year? I think he is lying, and no one batted an eyelash.

And he said in answer to a womans question about domestic violence that he would prevent it by promoting economic equality.

Now I know what Ross Perot meant by gorilla dust and mickey mouse tossed salad.

Yes, and he told how this would be accomplished. It has quite a lot with turning our "disease-care" system into a preventative model, tremendously cutting costs and allowing Medicare and Medicaid to shop for prescription drugs instead of bending over and letting the pharmaceuticals stick it up our keister.

And he said in answer to a womans question about domestic violence that he would prevent it by promoting economic equality.

This was only one part of it. The facts are that many women stay in abusive situations because they do not have the economic ability to leave!

That was his point and everyone there understood what he was talking about.

You seem to understand the questions quite well Eric. Why did you have so many problems understanding his quite common sense solutions?

Where I work health care for a familt is $317 a month he is going to reduce this by $300 a month?

Because I've been lied to by politicians before.

I want you all to go look outside tonight and see that glowing thing up in the sky? That's the moon, vote for me and it's yours. I promise. - Barak Obama

allowing Medicare and Medicaid to shop for prescription drugs instead of bending over and letting the pharmaceuticals stick it up our keister.

Dreaming Tony.
1. The Pharma lobby owns a big chunk of Congress.
2. Government regulations destroyed competitive pressures, hence downward pressure on prices.
3. They have been profiting handsomely BECAUSE of Medicare and Medicaid, the FDA and other laws that protect and subsidize their research.

Hey Tonyroma, If Obama gets elected president and my health insurance costs go down $300 a month then I owe you a coke. Not the kind of coke his spiritual adviser and newly former campain staff member says the CIA gave to blacks, Coke Zero.

Eric...

If you listened closely the quote was "by an average of $2500 per household..." if my memory serves correct. Obviously if you're fortunate enough to have affordable care already, you can keep it, something he also said.

Obama made a promise at the end of his meeting and I believe it. He said that he would always tell us the truth, he would always tell us how he feels, he will always listen to others and perhaps disagree without being disagreeable, and that everyday, if he should be fortunate enough to gain the Presidency, he would try to think of ways to make OUR lives better.

I don't know what more anyone can ask of a person. He never said that he'd deliver it all on the day he takes office, but he presented his first three initiatives that underscore everything that might come after: Ending Iraq and freeing up the $12 billion per month we're currently spending, while doing it in a RESPONSIBLE manner over a period of time; Tackling the healthcare cost issue, again reducing the amounts of tax dollars being spend extravagantly on Medicare and Medicaid; and I can't remember the third right now.

Ray just helped me remember the third. It was to charge his people with going through each and every single Executive Order currently in effect, and negating those, like mentioned by Ray, which actually give business advantages in the marketplace they do not deserve, and more importantly to negate any and all Orders that have curbed civil liberties and given government unconstitutional powers that Bush and Cheney have loved so much.

Obama's entire campaign is about breaking the tyranny of entrenched special interests and their lobbies. This is why the PEOPLE have funded his campaign, and owe no allegiance to those currently running our government by proxy.

I'm not saying I don't like the guy I just don't belive him. Hell I voted for him (and Mitt Romney) in the NH primary.

I have several disabled friends on medicare and one friend's healthcare cost $120,000 last year. Another didn't know how to take the train to Boston for a check up for his broken collarbone so they picked him up in a lincoln town car drove him 25 miles, waited and drove him back at no charge to him.

Ray...

Its easy to sit at your computer and pontificate on what can't be done. But I saw far too many people today who believe that their hard work and the right vehicle just might move this nation and its federal government in the right direction again.

The reason Obama has a chance of accomplishing more than others that tried before is because he's built his movement from the grass roots UP, not from the corporate fat-cats DOWNWARD like Hillary and McCain. This country wouldn't exist if the former British citizens had the mindset you do.

Never underestimate what a starving man will do for nourishment. This nation is starving, and many are ready to take control of their own destiny instead of waiting for others to come to their rescue.

This nation is not starving, I am old enough to remember when poor people were skinny and did not own cell phones, this nation needs to eat it's vegatables because no matter who gets elected food, fuel and healthcare costs are gonna rise and we have been living on credit for too long.

I'm not saying I don't like the guy I just don't belive him. Hell I voted for him (and Mitt Romney) in the NH primary.

Then look at his record Eric, and his political history. This isn't Barack's first rodeo, this is his 6th campaign in the last 12 years. Check and see if he's lied to his constituents before, don't just assume he's just like every other politician. Its all there if you want to research it.

Our last two Presidents have destroyed America's belief in candor and honesty. I wouldn't believe Bush nor Clinton if they told me water's wet because I've seen their lies for far too long.

Sometimes though, honorable people actually WANT to serve the people because they feel they can make a difference. This is what I've seen in and from Obama. Again, he is not the end-all and be-all. He just happens to have the character and charisma that inspires people to believe and to come together and work for change. We need more like him, and a lot less from those pointing out his human flaws as though he's supposed to be omnipotent. He's just a man, but then again all leaders where just singular men. It is what they could get others to do that defined their greatness.

I pretty much aggree with you but I think he is promising too much.

This nation is not starving

This was a METAPHOR Eric. LOL. However, there still are hundreds of thousands living on our streets today and the problem is only going to increase for the reasons you cited.

We have been living on credit, as has this government because of Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy. Its going to get much worse before it gets better.

Thats one point that Ray and I completely agree about.

Eric- you can vote for a Republican and a Democrat in the NH primary?

Weird

I pretty much aggree with you but I think he is promising too much.

Again, I've never heard him speak about his plans without prefacing that it will take much time to accomplish them all. He's telling it straight IF you listen to the entirety of his remarks and not just the soundbites on the evening news.

Every step of the way he challenges US to work with him so that these things might happen. He isn't the Pied Piper or Santa Claus. He's just a man who's gathering the people together, one at a time, to work toward what each of us should want: A better future, with security, both physically and economically, for all of us, not just the wealthiest Americans, and a more egalitarian society to leave for our children's future.

I've been homeless and I never took a cent in welfare or foodstamps. I don't think spending will fix it. Opportunity is better than hope.

?btw this is the most civilized discussion I've ever seen on this site. I'm waiting for some one to start with the personal attacks.

In NH anyone can go in and vote any where with out showing ID. I voted for Romney in Derry and on the way home in Plaistow I saw the polling place I went in asked for a Dem ballot and voted for Obama an there were alot of Mass licence plates in the lot.
/ I'm a libertarian and they didn't have a primary ballot because they nominate though a national connvention thast is like a caucus.

Tony

I have the advantage of 45 years experience of studying politics and religion from every angle. I've long passed the stage you are in.

He's not a reformer in the ethical sense, he's a product of a corrupt political system whose lifeblood is power. He got to be senator because he plays with the rest of them. I doubt he'll make president because the power brokers don't trust him on that level.

Its easy to sit at your computer and pontificate on what can't be done

The political system is socially, morally and financially bankrupt. It's too late. This tiger will always have stripes. You'd best concentrating on saving yourself.

I've been buying as much precious metals as I can afford. In a couple of years at most, you are going to wish you did too.

I just bought a 7 diamond hooker for $5,500. Is that what you mean?

Jan. 21, 2007 story in the Chicago Tribune, Obama said that Wright keeps his priorities straight and his moral compass calibrated.


"What I value most about Pastor Wright is not his day-to-day political advice," Obama told the paper. "He's much more of a sounding board for me to make sure that I am speaking truthfully about what I believe is possible and that I'm not losing myself in some of the hype and hoopla and stress that's involved in national politics."


However, Obama has said that in the fall of 2006, he broached the subject of a run for the presidency with Wright, who encouraged him to go ahead.


"It is unfair to engage in guilt by association"
YEAH right!

Ray...

I respectfully disagree with you because the mounting evidence supports my position and not yours.
This is why I know that you are wrong Ray.

Posted by tonyroma at 2008-03-15 04:40 PM

Events will settle this before the year is out.

"former pastor"

Too little too late--like 16 years 9 months too late.

The man is an empty suit and not credible.

I have the advantage of 45 years experience of studying politics and religion from every angle.- Ray

And I suspect, Ray, that you have been predicting the Gloom and Doom scenario for 45 years, too. If I'm wrong, do tell me.

I try in spite of the considerable evidence otherwise, to believe there are good politicians and bad politicians, like the rest of us. I see in Obama the greatest potential in a Presidential Candidate in my lifetime, and I remember all of them since Ike.

I am pleased this nonsense over the church and so on is happening now, before he gets the nomination.

Chances are he will get it, will win, and our country may at least make an attempt to change for the better. I will not be over-optimistic, but I feel that your assessment of the situation, Ray, must make you a miserable person, and that I cannot be. I know you have a sense of irony, and that is a strength on a personal level. But do you have any friends?

Sitdown
Not 45 years but close. In the late 70s when I got to understand Austrian Theory, Libertarian philosophy and economic history, I could see that if the trends continued, it would end catastrophically. Empires have fallen before and we are next on the roster.

I'm quite comfortable enjoying life, thank you. Especially knowing I've taken the steps to protect myself and family from the misery you sheep are about to experience as this economy deteriorates in the years ahead.

I've been trying to do you all a favor by warning you and educating you, but you won't listen. Your problem, not mine.

"Where I work health care for a family is $317 a month he is going to reduce this by $300 a month?"

Sure - we're just going to take from the rich and all will be well (pun intended)..

Ref my post above: You say "there are not enough rich?", no problem, we will just raise taxes on the middle class to make up the difference (after all, the poor do not pay taxes). Seems the only class who do not get screwed is the poor - all gain, no loss.

American Unity wrote,

"After 7+ years of the opposite from Bush, it would be so refreshing to have an honest, forthright man who has nothing to hide and tells it like it is sitting in the White House"

Well that man isn't Barrack Obama.

If it were he would give a complete account of dealings with Tony Rezko.

He would also come clean about his involvement with drugs including whether he ever sold them.

Obama says he was never there during any of these outlandish statements made by his pastor but I wonder if any of these tapes panned the audience so maybe we better check to be sure.

If it turns out he was there during some of these sermons should he resign for lying or for just going along with the statements by not leaving?

If it were he would give a complete account of dealings with Tony Rezko.

He would also come clean about his involvement with drugs including whether he ever sold them.

Posted by Crackpipejunkie


Would you believe anything he might say?

"There can be no doubt that America exports and partakes in violence in other nations,..."

And AIDS too, right Tony??? According to Wright America started THAT too. He blames the U.S. for ALL the world's ills. I don't understand how you and your little friends can defend this A-hole...and Obama by LONG TERM association with him. Face it, it may have been beneficial for winning elections in Chicago and Illinois, but it ain't gonna play well in Tennessee, I gaur-on-tee.

This is rather amusing. Guilt by association if Obama attended the church or is friends with Wright, he must agree with everything Wright has ever said.

This is a good thing for America I think. Too many times both sides paint the other with the "guilt by association" thing. Maybe people will wake up and talk about what is really important.

Nah. This stuff works. America continues to gets what it deserves.

"This is rather amusing. Guilt by association if Obama attended the church or is friends with Wright, he must agree with everything Wright has ever said."

Amuses YOU maybe. Obama may not agree with "everything" Wright has ever said but it's pretty obvious none of it upsets him much...right? But, you see, it upsets me...and many others apparently. I know, doesn't upset you.

A cannibal was walking through the jungle and came upon a restaurant operated by a fellow cannibal. Feeling somewhat hungry, he sat down and looked over the menu...

+ Tourist: $5

+ Broiled Missionary: $10.00

+ Fried Explorer: $15.00

+ Baked Democrat or Grilled Republican: $100.00

The cannibal called the waiter over and asked, "Why such a price difference for the politicians?"
The cook replied, "Have you ever tried to clean one?
They're so full of shit, it takes all morning

A woman was having a conference with her husband's doctor who told her that her husband was dying and how technology had advanced to where he could have a brain transplant. It would be expensive though and she had three options.
A mathemetician's brain...$100,000
A nuclear scientist's brain....$200,000.
A Dmocrat Party leader's brain...$1,000,000
When asked why the Democrat Party leader's brain was so expensive, the doctor replied, But, madam, THAT brain has never been used.

A mathemetician's brain...$100,000
A nuclear scientist's brain....$200,000.
A Dmocrat Party leader's brain...$1,000,000
When asked why the Democrat Party leader's brain was so expensive, the doctor replied, But, madam, THAT brain has never been used.

When asked why there wasn't a Republican brain available, the doctor replied: "We've never found one."

Why is society like a cesspool?

Because the sludge sinks to the bottom and the scum rises to the top.

Jest FF
Yav FF and the QCF ...quick comeback flag


Ray...sludge?...it's breakfast time...yucky. You need to omit "society" and substitute DC..

Wright has ever said but it's pretty obvious none of it upsets him much...right? But, you see, it upsets me...and many others apparently.

Sure it does. You were never going to support Obama anyway. I truly do not think anything Rev. Wright said was that much different from the things we hear from white preachers who blame gays, liberals, feminists and every other left-leaning collective for their perception of America's fall from grace.

What too many white people, among all Americans, want to forget is that the legacy of this nation has always been the exploitation and domination of anyone and everyoone that stood in the way of progress, whether it was the British, French, Mexicans, or Native Americans. Our history is one of violence committed in defense of patriotism, which is a soothing salve that ameliorates the guilt of the murder and mayhem that was wrought to create the nation we now see. It was fine to lie to the indians and to steal their land and herd their people like cattle, but saying "God damn America" for its sins is out of bounds? You must be kidding.

With you, Tony.

Concluding, Mr. Wright said: "We started the AIDS virus . . . We are only able to maintain our level of living by making sure that Third World people live in grinding poverty. . . ."

The AIDS virus stuff originating with the CIA is pure speculation and prolly an urban myth.

America's high standard of living coming at the cost of the suffering of many other third world countries?

That's a fact.

It's why America has successfully attempted coups against popularily elected leaders and installed dictatorships around the world for generations.

All the while pretending to be a champion of democracy and decency.

America isn't the great big scary Satan that some folks make it out to be, but to always buy into your own propaganda that America always does good and noble things in this world is to ignore some pretty basic and grim realities.

Hre's a partial list of people who were at one time supported by the US.

Pinochet.
Noriega.
Suharto.
Saddam Hussein.
Osama Bin Laden.
The Shah of Iran.
Ferdinand Marcos.
P W Botha.
Idi Amin.
Papa Doc Duvalier.
Baby Doc Duvalier.
Fulgencio Batista.
Sese Seko Mobutu.
Pol Pot.
Somoza.
Hitler.

The more you know.

Be Well.

America's high standard of living coming at the cost of the suffering of many other third world countries?

That's a fact.

Care to elaborate as to how my standard of living has been increased by any of those relationships?

Spud...

I seldom comment to your posts because I usually agree with almost every word you write. Americans need to wake up and look into history's mirror and stop viewing everything through a red, white, and blue clouded prism.

And on the other side, mentioning negative things about America does not mean that ALL is negative! I'm equally tired of people who see singular complaints immediately playing the "you don't appreciate/love America card" over and over again.

The Americans who complain wouldn't bother doing so if they didn't love this nation and didn't want it to seek a higher more noble purpose than the exploitation of others to maintain what we have or to gain what we want. One can love and complain at the same time. Haven't these people heard of marriage? I believe disagreeing was something our Founders did quite regularly without ever resorting to banishing those who dared speak the truth as they saw it, whether it later be proven right or wrong.

And on the other side, mentioning negative things about America does not mean that ALL is negative! I'm equally tired of people who see singular complaints immediately playing the "you don't appreciate/love America card" over and over again.

~Tony Roma

Agreed.

If people don't understand what the problem are or even that there is a problem then they are probably not gonna be able to fix the problem. Americans, by and large, exist in a little media bubble of false images in which only the good aspects of America are played up. Spud believes in the old song that say "Accentuate the positive" but an inability or unwillingness to even recognise the negatives is a way of perpetuating those problems forever. Spud doesn't blame the American people so much as Spud blames the lame, tame, lap dog press for so failing in their basic duty to keep the people informed, and a lot of that has to do with government allowing media to coalese into fewer and fewer hands over the years as the population increases the numbers of legitimate voices speaking non-corporate opinions has shrunk.

The fact that Reverend Wright spoke to some of the more grim realities behind the MSM's curtain of feel good programing is supposed to be a negative for Obama?

FUCK THAT.

Spud would much rather attend a sermon at Obama's church than at one of those evDEVILicals or TaliBaptist SOBs who preach homophobia and anti-reproductive rights like they were gospel. Much rather hear Rev. Wright speak his activism from the pupit than listen to one of these loathesome and abominable "prosperity preachers" like Benny Hinn or Creflo Dollar or their ilk.

Rod Parsley, fer example, scares the living shit out of Spud with his wild eyed rapture preaching calling for the end of the world like it's gonna be a good thing.

The spotlight has been shined on the wrong preacher man here but if folks want to take Rev. Wright to task for his words then they had better be prepared to defend their side of the argument and in far too many cases the folks who are shocked and offended by his words simply don't have a clue wot they are talking about.

Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.

Pseudo-patriotism like "My Coutry right or wrong" is purely cowardice wrapped in a flag.

"My country, when right to be kept right
When wrong to be put right."

That's how a real patriot thinks.

Be Well.

You go Spudster!

You are right TR...I would never vote for him anyways...but only because of his political ideology. If I agreed with him politically...his race would not have matter....but this development would make me question his judgement.

"why force him to answer for it?"

I do not ask that Obama answer for his pastor....only that he did not disassociate himself years ago. To keep attending his sermons only endorses and encourages his rhetoric. Actually I kinda liked the pastors "Hope" sermon.
I can only try to understand the anger that blacks feel.
As a mother I know the fierce anger when one of my children suffers an injustice.
History is important! Teach history...talk about the atrocities...and the injustices happening now.


But...Can you honestly say that the pastors teaching and rants are a way past race problems? Is reverse racism the answer?
The reality is and will be hard enough but putting these feeling in the hearts and minds of kids can only do harm to them.

Oh, I get it. Black preachers have been preaching divisiveness and hate for a long time, and it's not just Obama's preacher. So, it's institutionalized and pervasive, which according to Palermo, makes it acceptable.

It would seem that if there is such a broad-based racist anti-white theme among black people, it would be a caution not to elect someone from such an alienated group to any office which provides him with power.

Here, I thought that racist Rev. Wright, and his affiliate black racist Nation of Islam leader Farrakhan, were anomalies. But Palermo insists they are not.

Here I wanted to disqualify Obama as suitable for office because of his embrace of black racists and the black racist message of black preference, black separatism, and hatred for and vilification of whites. But Palermos says that such is par for the course, and reflects the attitude of the black community?

This is very serious and presents a far bigger problem than just having a man trying to be a "stealth" racist sneak into office by misrepresenting himself.

If black racism were as widespread as Palermo indicates, that in no way excuses the black racist, but still disqualifies him for public office as he would be representing people he despises and denigrates.

I wonder what will happen if the alleged "F--k whitey" statement attributed to Obama, spoken into an open mike he thought was closed, and recorded, is released. Would the apologists for the superficial nature of black racism still issue apologetics attempting to justify Obama's associations and behavior, or would it constitute additional confirmation of his base racist nature and result in even his more ardent leftist supporters rejecting him because of his overt and blatant racism. Or do leftists support racism? So far, it seems that they do.

"Obama's associations and behavior..."

What specific behavior? (Other than having the "associations")

Senator Obama should in no way be held accountable for the impolitic utterances of his former pastor

LOL. Talk about understating Wright's long term and intimate relationship with Obama.

Obama's entire campaign is about breaking the tyranny of entrenched special interests and their lobbies.

Is that why he is such a reliable liberal vote? Because he has a track-record of challenging the orthodoxy within his own party>

Obama is no agent of change at all. He's been a henchmen for the party...at the state level, now at the federal level. Any partnership with republicans in the senate has been over small, non-controversial things. Big deal.

The fact is that McCain is the real agent of change in this election...and he has been bucking his own party at great poltiical risk for decades while Obama has been dutifully just been carrying water for his party.

For Obama to say that he did not know Wright's racist, hate america views is just an outright lie.

That doesn't mean that most of Obama's supporters won't overlook this lie...but at least own up to it and stop putting the guy on some pedestal.

Obama is just another opportunistic politician. He usre aint the 2nd coming of anything.

"The fact is that McCain is the real agent of change in this election"

Excuse my mouth vomit.

McCain is for endless war, surrounds himself with lobbyists, wants to allow in illegals for cheap labor, and is all for making the tax cuts on the wealthiest permanent. Where's the change?

McCain is for endless war, surrounds himself with lobbyists, wants to allow in illegals for cheap labor, and is all for making the tax cuts on the wealthiest permanent. Where's the change?

Please stop lying danforth. You are better then that.

McCain is not for "endless war". He compared the necessity of a long term presence in Iraq, to other nations we have had a similar presence-- Korea, Germany, japan. That is a far-cry from saying he's for endless war.

as for lobbyists, given that the first amendment protects the rights of lobbyists to begin with...ALL politicians are surrounded by lobbyists. It's dishonest the try to turn the mere mention of "lobbyists" into a dirty word.

Just because you disagree with Mccain over his agenda (and I do too) doesn't make him any less an agent for change. The fact is, that almost alone among high=profile politicians, McCain has had a long term track record of bucking the status quo and his own party in major areas. Putting such a political maverick into office would be a huge change to the usual lock-step party foot soldiers that usually get the job. Obama on the other hand is just a run of the mill liberal, an old-style McGovernite wrapped in a pretty new package, a GQ version of Teddy kennedy.

"McCain is not for "endless war". "

True. He only wants 100 years of war.

"bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb bomb Iran" McCain?

"there's going to be other wars" McCain?

"100, 1,000, 10,000 years" McCain?

"59 Lobbyists on my campaign" McCain?

"I don't think Americans are concerned if we're there for one hundred years or a thousand years or ten thousand years."

"I'm sorry to tell you, there's going to be other wars. We will never surrender but there will be other wars."

" He never said 100 years of war either."

You're right. He said 1000 years of war.

McCain on Thursday defended his statement that U.S. troops could spend "maybe 100" years in Iraq -- saying he was referring to a military presence similar to what the nation already has in places like Japan

Yeah. Defended and restated because his original statement bit him in his ass.

Yeah. Defended and restated because his original statement bit him in his ass.

McCain's original statement was taken out of context to begin with. And people here see nothing wrong with perpetuating the lie about it.

What McCain actually said was ""Maybe 100," McCain replied. "As long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed, it's fine with me and I hope it would be fine with you if we maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world where al Qaeda is training, recruiting, equipping and motivating people every single day."

he never said he supported being at war for 100 years, he said "if we maintain a presence"...which is far different..and what Obama and Hillary are also saying.

So you should ask yourself why are you knowingly lying about McCain';s comment?

"McCain's original statement was taken out of context to begin with. And people here see nothing wrong with perpetuating the lie about it."

So a question mark after it would be okay...?

McCain is for endless war, surrounds himself with lobbyists, wants to allow in illegals for cheap labor, and is all for making the tax cuts on the wealthiest permanent. Where's the change?

"McCain is not for "endless war"."

What? nothing about "surrounds himself with lobbyists, wants to allow in illegals for cheap labor, and is all for making the tax cuts on the wealthiest permanent"...?

And McCain wants to bomb Iran, for God's sake. Wake up.

Why am I not surprised to find Bowa defending Bomber McCain. He did such a marvelous job here for Bush's popularity.

Am I to now believe Bowa is an enthusiastic supporter of McCain?


Great. Once he begins predicting a McCain win, I'll know everything's gonna be OK.

"McCain's original statement was taken out of context to begin with. And people here see nothing wrong with perpetuating the lie about it."

There's a sweet, delicious irony in watching the indignation of people complaining about taking a candidate's words out-of-context and then perpetuating said words.

You would think these people were for taking words out-of-context and perpetuating them before they were against it.

Hans

Obama is going to pass this test just fine because Hillary is still Hillary, and her brand of poison is just that, poison.

God damn America is a tough test to overcome...

Its his pastor... he baptised him, he married him, they been friends for what? 20 years?... your gonna tell people he's had no influence on his beliefs? His book is titled after a line from one of his speeches...

This guy clearly has had an influence on Obama...

God damn America... Tough campaign slogan to pull off... and is easily more poison then Hillary...

Am I to now believe Bowa is an enthusiastic supporter of McCain?

Nope. A very reluctant supporter...who sees him as the best choice among all bad choices.

There's a sweet, delicious irony

The irony is that a 72 year old man is the real agent of change after spending decades bucking his own party to reach across the aisle on major issues while the young man who is sold as "change" is really just a tired old McGovernite espousing the failed liberalism of the 1970's.

"The irony is that a 72 year old man is the real agent of change after spending decades bucking his own party to reach across the aisle on major issues while the young man who is sold as "change" is really just a tired old McGovernite espousing the failed liberalism of the 1970's."

Posted by Bowa at 2008-03-17 04:50 AM | Reply | Flag: Amnesia

And speaking of sweet, delicious irony:

"The irony is that a 72 year old man is the real agent of change after spending decades bucking his own party to reach across the aisle on major issues while the young man who is sold as "change" is really just a tired old McGovernite espousing the failed liberalism of the 1970's."

yup
his agency of change said to do what bush did


you can't teach an old dog new tricks, mccain learned how to stay alive and do what the authority wants in pow camp

now he has bent his morals to the will of the bush republican ethos

sad
mccain WAS a good person for the job, but now he's just more of the mcsame

mcflip mcflop

"Nope. A very reluctant supporter...who sees him as the best choice among all bad choices."

I could be mistaken, but wasn't that your excuse for W x 2 also?

If McCain is a 3rd term for Bush then Obama is a 1st term for Farrakhan.

"Obama is a 1st term for Farrakhan"

Do you actually believe that? Are you that untethered to reality?