Oh gee, another surprise, Cheney's cronies don't pay taxes.

NAFTA policy hard at work. Thank you Bill Cliton for selling the USA to the highest bidder.

officials said the move allowed KBR to perform the work more cheaply, saving Defense dollars.

Okay-

A. Prove the "savings" were passed on to the government.

B. If the government would like to save money by changing LAWS regarding withholding, it would have done so. It's not up to a contractor to decide it arbitrarily.

C. Bullshit.

D. NAFTA doesn't have shit to do with it. Republican Halliburton created a shell company overseas to avoid paying taxes for it's American workers, it has nothing to do with importing goods produced cheaply outside the US. Really, not even a very good try.

I pick F. The Clintons are in bed with China and taking money from them.

Unclesimp:NAFTA policy hard at work. Thank you Bill Cliton for selling the USA to the highest bidder.


Perhaps your nurse could find an atlas and point out that the Caymans aren't in either Mexico or Canada. Given your brainpower, I'm guessing you're intimately related to Busybowa.

And i won't even point out Bush has created free trade deals with every third world hole he could find, as well as trying to sell our ports to dubaialqueda.

And remember McBush LOVES NAFTA.

But thanks for the deflection attempt. Did you know Clinton got a blow job?

Hey, the Clintons have accounts in the Cayman Islands too.

Oh gee, another surprise, Cheney's cronies don't pay taxes.

Hey, the Clintons have accounts in the Cayman Islands too.

Doesn't everyone?

These Right Wing Hacks, obsession with the Clinton's is scary. These Partian BASTARDS don't care that their Country is being cheated out of Millions, Millions of Dollars as long as it gives them a chance to critize the Clintons whats wrong with you Fucking ASSHOLES???

At a point in the next couple of years VP Cheneys blind trust for his Hallerburton Stock will be made public an then we will all see what a fucking farce this war has been an to those who benefited from the death of Hundred of Thousands of Iraquis and Thousands of American servicemen an women.

There have been Tax haven's long before the Clintons came to town, it just that this group of so called "Americans", the Bible thumping, Flag waving, Conservative Republicians have found a way to get around the system. This Right Wing Fucks don't care, just as long as the can pound on the Clintons what a bunch of ASSHOLES.

GOD CAN JANUARY 20, 2009 GET HERE SOON ENOUGH....

NAFTA policy hard at work. Thank you Bill Cliton for selling the USA to the highest bidder.

Posted by Unclesam at 2008-03-06 09:43 PM

What's with this NAFTA fetish? Is everything related to NAFTA? You realize the Caymen Islands are not in the NA part of NAFTA right?

Big deal. It means that Americans working for this foreign outfit gets more pay in pocket, as opposed to paying into the absurd and increasingly insolvent Social Security system.

Hopefully my firm will move to the Caymans, and pay me similarly.

Hopefully RIR you will need SS and it won't be available. Maybe the govt will finally catch on to your wealth building pyramid schemes and confiscate other peoples hard earned money that you helped them "invest". boiler room came on tv the other day and I thought of you.

But thanks for the deflection attempt. Did you know Clinton got a blow job?

Posted by northguy3 at


thats right and there was another "little" matter. something about LYING to a judge or something like that.....of course that is usually thrown under the rug, though isnt it?

hey celery face......

These Right Wing Hacks, obsession with the Clinton's is scary. These Partian BASTARDS don't care that their Country is being cheated out of Millions, Millions of Dollars as long as it gives them a chance to critize the Clintons whats wrong with you Fucking ASSHOLES???



bite my ass. MOST of the time this site is for grownups and according to this, you dont qualify. If we had a DR banquet, you would be at the small table with the little chairs .

messiah said

Hopefully RIR you will need SS and it won't be available.


come on....no you dont!!

because if you do mean it, what you are saying is that you hope SS has gone under and it will if left to dems but that also means a whole lot of old ladies and sick people on the street.
so I CHOOSE to believe that you DONT mean it.

Bl2 you would be intoxicated and passed out in the corner at the banquet.

"...you hope SS has gone under and it will if left to dems..."

Says the guy who's party had 6 years of unfettered power and finally had to admit its "plan" wouldn't even address the problem.

Of course it's going to fail under the Dems. It's eventually going to fail, and after Bush, the Republicans are never going to be given back the reigns of power.

Big Bucks For Darth Vader !

-Sarge

"and there was another "little" matter. something about LYING to a judge or something like that.....of course that is usually thrown under the rug, though isnt it?"

Why are you bringing up Scooter Libby?

Bl2 you would be intoxicated and passed out in the corner at the banquet.

Posted by messiah at



yeah but afterwards I WOULD BE SMOKING........oops, wrong thread.

This absolutely is not news. Halliburton, KBR, even Romney's couple of corporations, have all incorporated off shore.

My question is that if a company is allowed to get U.S. government contracts are the also allowed to incorporate off shore? All the major corporations and oil companies do it I wasn't aware that you were allowed to do it if you received government contracts. I don't know. All I do know is that we have been robbed blind by this Administration.

A new book is coming out

dan.....we have talked to death the difference between libbys lying and the sackoshit lying.
and please bring up bush not doing anything about SS. I believe it would be a long way toward being more solvent or however the pencilnecked geeks call it if the dems didnt block it from even being discussed.
"pencilnecked geeks" sorry bout that.....taxman.

SS could last for a zillion years if we didn't spend trillions on a needless war. Aslo, this crap of not having enough workers to keep it going is BS. The money is there - the politicians just keep dipping into it and using it for their other pet projects. If Bush has the money to give SS to the illegal aliens -- which he and the Democrats planned on doing in their shamnesty bill -- and Bush continues to spend billions like some drunken sailor on that bottomless moneypit in Iraq, then the politicians they have got more than enough money in SS for American citizens. End of story.

aslo = also

Hopefully RIR you will need SS and it won't be available. Maybe the govt will finally catch on to your wealth building pyramid schemes and confiscate other peoples hard earned money that you helped them "invest". boiler room came on tv the other day and I thought of you.

Posted by messiah
* * * *

Drop dead douchebag. I only get paid after my clients do. And if you spend so much as one second during the day thinking of me, you need to get a life. Besides, isn't there some Obamarama rally you need to be getting to?

yes chris......every president since lbj has done it and I dont know why that money isnt untouchable.
and yes illegals were going to get it but of course plenty of them get it already with false documentation. I dont know if you are correct with your OBAMA assesment about enough without a war, so I wont comment.
but here is a FACT....there was a time not that long ago when bush wanted to do something about it and the dems said NO and people here said NO and they said it wasnt broken so it didnt need fixing and now our prediction is coming true when we said that if there is a dem congress or president, it will suddenly become a problem and now we see that happening.
SS should be one of the most bipartisan issues we have.

Drop dead douchebag. I only get paid after my clients do.

Too funny.

I only get paid after my company does and the difference is what?

If my company doesn't get paid, I get laid off just like all Americans in this country. You act like you should get paid before your clients.

Well, if you're KBR than that's the case.

BL2

but here is a FACT....there was a time not that long ago when bush wanted to do something about it and the dems said NO and people here said NO and they said it wasnt broken so it didnt need fixing and now our prediction is coming true when we said that if there is a dem congress or president, it will suddenly become a problem and now we see that happening.
SS should be one of the most bipartisan issues we have.


Bush's plan stunk. Everybody knew it but Bush still continued his stupid and arrogant SS Road Show for months two years ago until the Republican party told him to give it up.

It would have privatized SS and made it an investment plan instead of a savings plan. Give me a break. That SS deal was a bonus for the boys on Wall Street who stood to make a fortune with new SS accounts. You've seen the market. Do you think the average person is saavy enough to monitor his money and go with the ups and down of the market -- especially if it goes south a couple years before retirement? Get real. Bush does NOTHING for the American people.

Bush's privatization of SS was a scheme to eventually get rid of the program entirely and in the meantime to funnel the SS money into brokerage accounts. How many elderly people can monitor their retirement savings for life? Why don't you just admit you voted for a scumbag - TWICE.

If we allowed bush SS plan to be used, we wouldn't have a housing finance crisis it would be a SS stock market crisis.

What I meant to say was, that I only make money when my clients do.

"we have talked to death the difference between libbys lying and (Clinton's) lying."

Including that one never got convicted for anything, and one got convicted of four felonies?

"I believe (SS) would be a long way toward being more solvent or however the pencilnecked geeks call it if the dems didnt block it from even being discussed."

They didn't. The Republicans controlled the agenda. No Democrat ever filibustered a debate on the subject. What idiot told you they did?

"but here is a FACT....there was a time not that long ago when bush wanted to do something about it and the dems said NO..."

Step away from the bottle, man. It was the American people who said no. The more folks found out about it, the lower the approval rating went. It steadily sunk month after month, until even fellow Republicans were running from it.

" and the dems said NO"

What the Dems did was the equivalent of an ER Doctor suggesting that making a new, gaping hole in a bleeding patient might not be prudent. Bush suggested little more than privatizing accounts, a huge SOP to the banking industry, something which would have a net effect of taking money out of the system, further exacerbating the problem. Aside from that, no one who heard of or studied the "plan" could explain it. Anyone want to take a stab at the "payback" aspect, where if your investments did too well/i> as compared to the norm

Bush's privatization of SS was a scheme to eventually get rid of the program entirely and in the meantime to funnel the SS money into brokerage accounts. How many elderly people can monitor their retirement savings for life? Why don't you just admit you voted for a scumbag - TWICE.

Posted by CalifChris
* * * *

Please. The only brokerages interested in accounts that small would be like the e-Trades or the Ameritrades. No respectable firm would want them.

The liberals need to figure out a way to get Social Security funds into better investments, and fast. The two-year Treasury now yields 1.7%, and that's what most of the SS trust fund is invested in. Why would the libs be opposed to running the Social Security program the way the state public pensions are run? At least you'd triple the rate of return, and push out the solvency another generation or two.

But no. The liberals have managed to demagogue the issue so successfully that it can't be touched. And so, it's broke. Congratulations. Hope you have a lot of outside savings that will be paying you for about 30 years after retirement. Because with inflation clocking in at 3 times the rate of growth in SS, you're losing money every day.

Please. The only brokerages interested in accounts that small would be like the e-Trades or the Ameritrades. No respectable firm would want them.

Brokerages would be given those SS accounts in huge blocks -- not individually. I'm far from being any kind of finance guru but I know that Wall Street can lump those accounts together and they donated BIG TIME to Bush in anticipation of his privatizing SS so something was up.

I'm far from being any kind of finance guru but I know that Wall Street can lump those accounts together . . . .

* * * *

Really? Wow. I work on Wall Street, and that's news to me. Just how do you propose to give people discretion over their individual accounts, and survivorship benefits, when they're lumped in with millions of others?

Wall Street donated heavily to Bush, because Bush's tax programs were beneficial to capital. But if you think that Goldman Sachs and Merrill Lynch are licking their chops over the idea of taking charge of millions of $25,000 accounts, it's ridiculous. Goldman won't even open an account for less than half a million; on accounts for less than $100,000 Merrill won't even pay their brokers on trades, so as to discourage them from opening accounts that small in the first place.

Nah, it doesn't work that way. Just the paperwork and the compliance on accounts that small are more than you can charge on them.

Why would the libs be opposed to running the Social Security program the way the state public pensions are run.

Yeah, which type of pension? Defined benefit or 401k? Defined benefit guarantees you X dollars per month but those pension plans are going the way of the Model T Ford. 401k is nice BUT you are at the mercy of the market. I lost $5000 overnight that October in '87 (?). I was able to recoup my loss but it took awhile. Tell that to somebody getting ready to retire who loses $25,000 overnight due to the market fluctuation.

Want to keep SS? Tell the politicians to keep their damn hands off of it. Also tell Bush to shove his "totalization" scheme of allowing the entire 3rd world country of Mexico in on our our SS program as he has planned on doing (they would suck out way more money than they ever would contribute). Also, tell Bush to put BACK into SS the money he took out to help fund his illegal war in Iraq. That general fund money included SS money that should have been left alone.

You Republicans just hate to give any help to American citizens. You'll give corporate perks and subsidiees out the butt but will give NOTHING for the average guy but you sure don't mind keeping his/her tax money.

1.7%. You could make twice that by buying CD's. And CD's suck. And guess what? CD's are still insured by the federal government.

Social Security is going broke, your way. Doesn't bother me, really--I'll be fine. But quick question: is the inflation rate less than 1.7%? Or more?

Well, how do you "prove" a fact is wrong? if you already believe something you see on the internet to be a fact, nothing I say will bother you.

1.7%. Hope you're happy with that. Tell you what I'll do: I'll even borrow money from you at 1.7%. I'll sign over the deed to my house in exchange for the cash. If I miss a single payment, you can have my house. Deal? Because that's the deal you've made with the Bush Administration, and you don't even get collateral for your generosity. In fact, you get the opposite: if you DON'T lend the money, you'll go to prison.

My way sounds better. 1.7%. Here's your chance to make some big money.

Anyone wanting to get their hands on SS is nothing but a low character greedy individual.

The money being paid in is not for us but for our parents. Our kids put money in for us and so on.

Why is it so important for these elites to get the money? Because they know how to steal it legally without being subject to the law, the government would protect them. Always protects the financials.

"The liberals need to figure out a way to get Social Security funds into better investments, and fast."

Where have the conservatives been the last 6 years? Oh, that's right...giving the SS overcollections to the wealthiest in the form of tax cuts and running massive deficit budgets. Here's a hint: the first step is truly balance the budget, something Clinton delivered to Bush's doorstep. History will depict Bush & his cronies like a Vegas mob who found a cash-rich casino, and skimmed off all they could for themselves and their buddies before they skipped town and left the remains with some unsuspecting schmuck. Or schmuckette, to be fair.

"But no. The liberals have managed to demagogue the issue so successfully that it can't be touched."

Oh crap, RIR, the Repubs had total control for 6 years. What were they wating for? Why didn't they take the surplus and start showing America how a private account, well managed, would gain more than a stodgy gov't program?

Don't worry Money. Nobody wants your Social Security, least of all the major Wall Street firms. But it's nice you recognize the program as the Ponzi Scheme that it is, instead of the silly trust fund "lock box" that Al Gore was throwing at us.

401k is nice BUT you are at the mercy of the market.

The market provides an 11% rate of return.

Like clockwork.

Tell that to somebody getting ready to retire who loses $25,000 overnight due to the market fluctuation.

I'd tell them, "You dumbshit, why were you invested in the kind of hyper-aggressive assets that would allow you to lose $25,000 overnight---this close to retirement? Go buy some Alpo and cry me a fucking river. You're a dumbass. Nobody owes you any compensation for being a dumbass. Now go away."

That's what I'd tell them.

Is that mean?

kinda -- especially if you're saying it to someone who is 89 years old

I'll make an exception for an 89 year-old worker "about" to retire with a 401k.

But only because I'm a nice guy.

"But it's nice you recognize the program as the Ponzi Scheme that it is"

Except, done right, it would have worked. We could have tweaked the numbers and saved the overcollections during the baby boomers peak years. We could have invested them in much better funds. In fact, here's a great idea: find out the aggregate investments of all the members of Congress, and create and invest in that fund! (And don't give me that shit about "blind" investments; Cheney might not say "American Century International Bond Fund", but you can be damn sure he makes certain his boys are loaded up on international bonds.)

Anyway, actuarially, it could have worked. The problem is the politicians spent the overcollections instead of investing them, and brought us to a point it's too late to just tweak the numbers.

Still, a few easy things to do, and here's one: Add one month for every year until retirement. One year is now 13 months. Twelve years is now thirteen years. It takes a bit of pressure off the system itself...not the answer by ANY MEANS, but if nothing else, it admits one inescapable truth: we're living longer.

If wall street was so great our nation wouldn't have huge trade deficits, stealing our money through the sly.

Nothing but a back door stealing machine.

Any decent asset manager would have your mom in bonds, T-bills, with maybe 25% in dividend stocks. Equity fluctuations in the long run don't matter as much as the income produced.

You should look into the asset management of the fund.

And that's probably going to be me, unless that fucking liberal shit drops the "false-outrage" bit and allows Americans to invest their Social Security.

"1.7%. Here's your chance to make some big money."

Don't fall for it. I'll give 1.8%.

(That's 5.88% more!)

We could have invested them in much better funds

No.

"I" could have invested them in much better funds.

It's my fucking money.

And one has to be an incandescently stupid motherfucker to believe that the federal government is better fit to provide for my financial well-being than me.

Wouldn't you agree?

I wonder what the $3,000,000,000,000 price tag of the Iraq war, which Iran has won, could have affected Social Security?

...because I'm a nice guy.

Posted by Pinche_Mao

I know

I wonder what the $3,000,000,000,000 price tag of the Iraq war, which Iran has won, could have affected Social Security?

We probably could have socialized an entirely new industry and created at least 2-3 million more people dependent on some form of entitlement.

Who knows?

3,000,000,000,000

How many fucking handles have you created, Felix?

I wonder what the $3,000,000,000,000 price tag of the Iraq war, which Iran has won, could have affected Social Security?

Posted by BetelG
* * * *

1. It didn't cost $3 trillion
2. Iran won't have won it until Obama surrenders it to them
3. No effect on Social Security at all

"And one has to be an incandescently stupid motherfucker to believe that the federal government is better fit to provide for my financial well-being than me. Wouldn't you agree?"

In the aggregate, I would agree: you would probably do better than the government's average (unless we get that Congress Fund!). Case-by-case, though. you'd have to be an even dumber motherfucker not to know there'd be major winners and major losers, and that was why the system was created in the first place: shared---social-security. All could do better if the investments were better. And Bush suggesting more money should be extracted out of the system by privatizers because the government is incapable of prudently investing is only believed by the dumbest motherfuckers of all.

"It didn't cost $3 trillion"

Just like the new car hasn't cost the full price while you're still paying it off.

"Iran won't have won it until Obama surrenders it to them"

Nice try at revisionist history. Boy George surrendered it to them the minute he opened Al-Pandora's Middle Eastern Box.

"No effect on Social Security at all"

You missed the operative word: "could"

If wall street was so great our nation wouldn't have huge trade deficits, stealing our money through the sly.

If Wall Street wasn't so great, you'd be Bond-Oing brass parts on a MiG in some shithole Kollective in Minot---so that the New Rodina's airspace might remain safe against the Chinese, imperialist aggressors.

At night, you'd risk your life railing against the nomenklatura on your nigger-rigged Atari game set plugged into a phone line.

RightisRight-
Let's see. Joseph Stiglitz says it will cost 3 trillion. You, Sean Hannity and Pinche Mao don't seem to have a head for numbers, but you disagree without stating any cost. What do you think it will cost?

Case-by-case, though. you'd have to be an even dumber motherfucker not to know there'd be major winners and major losers, and that was why the system was created in the first place: shared---social-security.

Boy.

You sure make a great case for extorting thousands of dollars a year from my income I'll never see again.

What do you think it will cost?

It's a complex function of the Iraqi civilian death-count.

I'll have to run a left-wing blogger algorithim before I can come up with something having any degree of accuracy.

It's interesting that bin Laden's desire was to break the US economy in a quagmire in Afghanistan. Bush sure fooled him.

No estimates from Pinche Mao, I see. And of course the deaths and displacements of Iraqis are trivial to the wars goals which were to...

What was that again?

"You sure make a great case for extorting thousands of dollars a year from my income I'll never see again."

I did no such thing. I suggested exactly the opposite, that Congress keep its hands off the money, and invest it in much bette---much closer to market---returns. All I'm doing is keeping more aggregate money IN the system, as it costs less to operate the accounts due to economy of scale than it would for each individual to operate their own. The investments can be the same as you'd pick, fine, but first, politicians have to keep their hands off the money.

I gotta go. Have fun with your bravado and stupidity. You elected him, after all.

"You sure make a great case..."

Please don't take my trashing of Bush's non-plan as an endorsement of Social Security the way we have it. Private accounts are probably the way to go, but they have to be done properly, or one generation gets stuck with two retirement bills. They must be attempted in a rising economy, with a rising population and over several generations. And at a minimum, we must keep our budgets balanced, and realistic expectations must be imposed on benefits and life expectancy. Bush's suggestion of no increased taxes and no extending of the retirement age during a time of falling birthrates and longer lives proves he didn't have a clue.

The real problem, though, is the stupidity of the average American when it comes to investing. Yeowch!

I believe it would be a long way toward being more solvent

Please enlighten us on how taking money away from social security and diverting it to wall street bank accounts will make it more solvent.

Bush didn't explain that little gem of bookkeeping magic either.

I dont know why that money isnt untouchable

Sec. 710. [42 U.S.C. 911] (a) The receipts and disbursements of the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund and the Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund and the taxes imposed under sections 1401 and 3101 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986[19] shall not be included in the totals of the budget of the United States Government as submitted by the President or of the congressional budget and shall be exempt from any general budget limitation imposed by statute on expenditures and net lending (budget outlays) of the United States Government.


Hopefully you have learnt yourself sumthing today.

The market provides an 11% rate of return.

Like clockwork.


Really.

I mean really.

What has the rate of return been over the passed six months.

Doubt it was 11%.

Seems like you clock is broken. But hey even a broken clock is right twice a day.

What has the rate of return been over the passed six months.

Doubt it was 11%.

Seems like you clock is broken. But hey even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Posted by 726


Long-term the market has far out-paced any other investment vehicle. 11% may be a bit of a stretch, but 8% certainly isn't.


Investing in the market for only 12 months is idiotic - too much unmitigated risk.

Most retirees move their long-term market investments into more stable short-term investments (like bonds) in order to mitigate risk and guaruntee return.

Your comment was nothing more than a 'gotcha' - unfortunately for you, nobody is advocating an investment strategy that you claimed was advocated.

Back on topic.. This KBR debacle is just another example of the rampant corporatism (fascism) going on in our country.

If I were to locate my small corporation in the Caymans with no physical presence, I would be thrown in jail as a tax evader.

The fact that so few are outraged by this shows that things are going to have to get a lot worse before Americans have the balls and brains to make them better.

"Please enlighten us on how taking money away from social security and diverting it to wall street bank accounts will make it more solvent."

Tell ya' what, 726...you should "invest" your money in Social Security. The rate of return is excellent. Your money will be put into the "lockbox" and grow and grow. When you die the day before you become eligible to draw benefits, the politicians will be very grateful for your diligence and will spend "your" money wisely for you.

"Kellogg Brown & Root, the nation's top Iraq war contractor and until last year a subsidiary of Halliburton Corp., has avoided paying hundreds of millions of dollars in federal Medicare and Social Security taxes by hiring workers through shell companies based in this tropical tax haven."

ALL of this crap would go away if we would adopt the "Fair Tax."

Fairtax and this could never happen.

When rich people don't pay the bulk of the income taxes who will make up the difference???

The Fairscam only fools the simple minded.

Danni,

EMBEDDED TAXES. Corporations DO NOT PAY TAXES, it's all passed on to the consumer. Everyone pays taxes. The FairTax replaces these taxes that are passed on to the consumer anyway, buts its much more transparant, easier to comply with and much more beneficial to the consumer.

LAPUS...Talking to Danni has as much effect as a fart in a tornado. Don't confuse her with facts. She doesn't have all the dots on her dice as it is.

EMBEDDED TAXES. Corporations DO NOT PAY TAXES, it's all passed on to the consumer.

Too funny,

Why do they lobby so hard for tax breaks then, taxes should bother em at all.

Why is KBR having this article about them right here on this thread?

Wish these idiots would wake up!!

Your comment was nothing more than a 'gotcha' - unfortunately for you, nobody is advocating an investment strategy that you claimed was advocated.

Posted by JeffJ at 2008-03-07 07:46 AM | Reply | Flag


He'll claim he was being sarcastic, but nobody will believe him this time either.

"LAPUS...Talking to Danni has as much effect as a fart in a tornado."

Well, I have to admit that I don't just accept the nonsense about the FAIRSCAM like y'all do because simple logic and aritmetic tells me that I will pay more tax under the FAIRSCAM than I do now in income tax. My richer neighbors who spend only a portion of their income will pay less. To me, that isn't a deal I want. It really is a shame that you fantasy just doesn't pan out, it sounds so inticing until you do some basic adding and subtracting.

Chair,

He'll claim he was being sarcastic, but nobody will believe him this time either.

Have you been able to divine who he was prior to the 726 handle?


My initial guess was Boyd, except that Boyd never ran away from a fight so easily (I've called out this clown's BS on more than 1 occasion without a response) and Boyd was never this beholden to stupid, talking point BS.

"EMBEDDED TAXES. Corporations DO NOT PAY TAXES"
...well, I admit, only the ones that obey the law and that don't avoid Federal laws with offshore tax havens do. When I had my little tiny corporation with several employees I always had to pay SS taxes, but then in America only the little people pay taxes...right?

J,
I asked him quite a few times when he made it apparent he was a retread. He pretends not to be a multihandled douche.
After reading his garbage it's obvious he needed to change handles to get away from his previous stupidity in order to post more of the same.

Corporations DO NOT PAY TAXES, it's all passed on to the consumer. Everyone pays taxes.

Posted by lapuscalami

In this case KBR is getting a double bonus. They're not paying taxes AND they're overcharging their customer. Which sadly in this case is Us.

ONCE AGAIN yet another example of how Military Spending does NOT contribute to making our economy stronger.

Military spending in IRAQ is a CANCER on the US economy to the tune of... What is the number up to now?: 2 TRILLION taxpayer dollars WASTED on making IRAN stronger in the Middle East.

Way to GO Bushie! You are doing a GREAT job...

NOT!!!

MISSION FUCKOMPLISHED!

Since that SS tax would be an expense for you wouldn't your raise you rates to pay for that SS expense to keep your profit margins where you want them? Yes you would, there by passing tax to the consumer.

THREE TRILLION!!! I STAND CORRECTED!

3 Trillion wasted to make the Iranians Stronger!

He pretends not to be a multihandled douche.

Which is asinine on its face due to the fact that early in his 'DR infancy' he directed comments toward certain Drudgies that belied a long-timer based upon content.


After reading his garbage it's obvious he needed to change handles to get away from his previous stupidity in order to post more of the same.


I agree. The problem then becomes identity. Which former handle is he? The choices are too numerous to narrow down.

I certainly understand why the democrat socialists want to link mccain and bush all together but its a simple fact anyway....BUSH AINT RUNNING .......

and something should be done about things like this, but what danni and her anticorporate terrorists want to do is shut down the SECOND largest company that builds roads and bridges and does it all over the world and does it quite well..

Anyone with a brain tries to skirt US taxes.

Cheers,
Walt

BLT puts words in my mouth, I have never called for shutting down these companies, I have called for oversight, changes to our tax laws that allow tax cheats like KBR, etc. Thing is this wouldn't have even been an opportunity for the Cheney cronies to rip off the government if these criminals hadn't invaded Iraq in the first place.

I don't quite understand why the righties even come into threads like this....they look buffoonish trying to defend rip offs like this.

so I will admit to putting words in your mouth if you say the same thing with your last line because I believe my first statement shows that I am not defending anything of the sort.
and that is more than enough talk between you and me about putting stuff in the other's mouth.,,,LOL

It might be a rip off, but it just shows how inefficient, unfair, and non effect our current tax law is. Companies go over sees because the cost of US tax compliance. We don't give companies any incentive to do business in the US, instead we punish them for being successful.

"Except, done right, it would have worked."
--DANFORTH

Famous last words for social security and coming soon, national healthcare.

"Famous last words for social security and coming soon, national healthcare."

Are you saying it couldn't have been done, actuarially?

they look buffoonish trying to defend rip offs like this.

This will be the first and probably the last time I agree with Danni..

""EMBEDDED TAXES."

If payroll and income taxes are already embedded in the prices we pay, why do we pay payroll and income taxes separately?

"Are you saying it couldn't have been done, actuarially?"
--DANFORTH

Not actuarially, but I have no faith that the government will ever get it right.

"I have no faith that the government will ever get it right."

It won't, if we keep electing people who believe "the government is the problem", and then, once in office, try their damnedest to prove the axiom true.

" Companies go over sees because the cost of US tax compliance."

Unbelievable. These companies go overseas because they are greedy cheap bastards who don't want to pay their fair share. Thousands of American employers pay their share, millions of Americans pay their share....but Bush and Cheney's buddies avoid paying theirs and ridiculous apologists still try to defend them....it makes me realize that they could do anything and these same MORONS would still defend them. Is there no limit to the apologists ability to kiss the Cronie's asses???? Do you think these cheap bastards give a crap about you????

Go buy some Alpo and cry me a fucking river. You're a dumbass. Nobody owes you any compensation for being a dumbass. Now go away."

That's what I'd tell them.

Posted by Pinche_Mao


FF!! I shouldn't laugh but this is pinche funny, sir.

"It won't, if we keep electing people who believe "the government is the problem", and then, once in office, try their damnedest to prove the axiom true."
--DANFORTH

It won't if we start electing people who think the government is the solution and then fuck it up anyway, either.

Danni I will just accept you hate capitalism, even though it's the reason why this country is has so much wealth. Corporations are profit motivated, they are run by who? Shareholders (do you have a 401K? then your an investor)!!!! and corporations have to keep their shareholder happy. If they can legally find a way to avoid a truely screwed up tax system, they will. Besides, there compititon is doing the same thing.

Danforth, not all taxes are embedded, but the taxes that corporations are left to pay are.

"It won't if we start electing people who think the government is the solution and then fuck it up anyway, either."

Recent history belies that statement. Clinton took deficits and, while he never fully balanced the budget, he did deliver truly balanced budgets to George Bush's doorstep. Bush did exactly the opposite. Ignoring the R/D divide, which economic path is better?

"Ignoring the R/D divide, which economic path is better?"

No fair stating it simply and clearly because, as you know, Bill Clinton got a BJ.

"Danforth, not all taxes are embedded..."

Why do you FT supporters always undermine the FT assumptions?

danni...I understand you adding the last blurb but at least be COMPLETELY accurate.

he got a bj AND impeached AND lied under oath AND was disbarred AND has cheated on his wife on multiple occasions AND ALLEGEDLY raped someone.
and he for sure tapped the ass of many women.
so there, now I am not sure how you would put all those things in one little thing like blowjob, but at least my list is complete.

and I dont think any of us on the right are apologists but we also understand all of the great things that corps do....giveaways,JOBS community involvement, JOBS, and have you seen towns that have lost some big store or company. they dry up pretty quick,so if they are so bad for america, why is that?

If you're going to be pissed off about this, and you should be, you should also be pissed of about the illegal's who don't pay taxes and the businesses who don't pay taxes on them. I would venture to say that it has cost the government more money than this has.

Your comment was nothing more than a 'gotcha' - unfortunately for you, nobody is advocating an investment strategy that you claimed was advocated.

And do you know what would happen to that rate of return if an investor missed the 90 best days of trading from 1963 to 1993?

90 days out of 30 years?

Care to take a guess what their rate of return would be?


3.28%

Besides when you make a claim like this....

The market provides an 11% rate of return.

Like clockwork.


I am glad you buy into that bullshit. I don't. Sure the market provided an average return of 11% from 1963 to 1993, but again if you missed the 90 best days of that time period your return was 3.28%.

He'll claim he was being sarcastic, but nobody will believe him this time either.


Oh I am so sorry you were too stupid yesterday to realize I was being sarcastic when I asked Jeff about the price of corn.

It was pretty apparent to me that him stating it a number of times over and over and over in the posts before I made my post that if I asked him the same question it was being sarcastic.

Here's a quarter. Buy a fucking clue.

and he for sure tapped the ass of many women.


You know what, this is what it all comes down to for you on the right that just keep harping on Bubba. Jealousy. He had just about any woman he wanted and got away with it all. That really pisses you off the most doesn't it.

It's okay to admit it. It will start your healing process.

"Ignoring the R/D divide, which economic path is better?"
--DANFORTH

Hmm, from your post, seems to be a Democrat for president and republicans in congress.

I'm game for anything that isn't 1 party rules all.

(I've called out this clown's BS on more than 1 occasion without a response)

Well that is because I am one busy person and I very often do not check in except around 11 am CST, then at the end of the day. Sometimes before the day begins too.

Sorry that I cannot sit on my butt and post all day like others around here.

I asked him quite a few times when he made it apparent he was a retread

I think we have stumbled upon inspector Clouseau here.

Presuming that I am a man? Hmmmm......interesting.

Very interesting.

"If you're going to be pissed off about this, and you should be, you should also be pissed of about the illegal's who don't pay taxes and the businesses who don't pay taxes on them."

Yeah my blood boils when I think of some Mexican worker here earning 8 dollars and hour working in the hot sun and then not paying their tax (which actually many millions of them do pay) and I think it is comparable to millionaires avoiding millions in SS taxes. Riiiight.

I am glad you buy into that bullshit. I don't.

I don't give a fuck whether you "buy into" it or not.

Facts are facts---and the stock market has historically provided about an 11% rate of return.

Any mouth-breathing dumfuck can cherry-pick a time period to demonstrate periods of greater or less return.

But I'm not in the mood to deal with mouth-breathing dumbfucks.

Lesson over.

Lesson over?

Please.

Yes 11% but I would not say "like clockwork". Any dumbfuck should know better.

No surprise here, except that the company hasn't redomiciled to the UAE yet.

Gotta run chumps.

Have a good weekend. Since Jeff was concerned about addressing my posts... I might be back later depending on what my peeps and I are doing.

My understanding is that Congressman John Linder , who proposed the Fair Tax plan, and Neil Boortz got their idea of "embedded taxes" from a study done by Dr. Dale Jorgenson (then chairman of the Harvard Economics Department). Does anyone know of any other studies done on "embedded taxes" ?

According to his study, Dr. Jorgenson's position is that there will be an approximately 20+% decline in the general price level. He believes a 20+% decline in gross wages, as the saved personal income, corporate income, and individual investor income taxes are passed through as savings to the consumer. Sounds like he is saying that price level decline will be roughly equal to the decline in gross wages. Doesn't sound like he is saying that the price decline will be paid for from "cascaded embedded taxes and tax costs" or whatever.

Sounds like employees no longer pay income taxes, but they don't get those taxes back. Prices decline by the amount of those taxes. And then go back up after the application of the NSRT.

Something I read on the net:

(a poster asked) "Excuse me for my lack of understanding of your answer, when you say 'workers would keep that after-tax pay' are you saying that if they are making $1000 a week now, and paying $200 payroll+income taxes now, that under the FairTax you were assuming that workers would get paid $800 and keep all of that? Or are you saying that you meant they would make $1000 under the FairTax?"

Dr. Jorgenson replies:

"I am saying that the worker would continue to receive the after-tax amount of $800."

Dr. Jorgenson is assuming that the gross pay of $1,000, pre-tax in the current system, will be reduced to a gross pay of $800 under the NSRT, but without any payroll or income taxes, the new gross pay will be equal to the old (AND new) net pay of $800.

I'm now retired (early retirement). In my working career I earned from 4 figures to 6 figures. In that time I almost always paid a margin rate of under 20%. Now I'm paying under 10%. Almost all of the people I know say the same about their taxees. I know a lot of retirees, probably the vast majority, are paying under 20%. I guarantee you, these people will NOT agree to any changes which involve their paying 30% (or 23%).

"BUSHLOVERTWO'.....Facts, asshole facts something that you Right Wing Hacks refuse to deal with, If it means to be a grownup to be as ignorant as you dumb FUCKs, i'll take childhood anyday.....

"Sounds like employees no longer pay income taxes, but they don't get those taxes back. Prices decline by the amount of those taxes. And then go back up after the application of the NSRT."

So then, the employee would have the same amount of income as he/she does now but would have to pay 30% more for anything he/she buys. Sounds like a pretty bad deal to me.

Yeah my blood boils when I think of some Mexican worker here earning 8 dollars and hour working in the hot sun and then not paying their tax (which actually many millions of them do pay) and I think it is comparable to millionaires avoiding millions in SS taxes. Riiiight.


You really aren't very smart, are you, Danni? When you add up the millions of illegals working here, combined with the companies who pay them cash and no taxes, you get MILLIONS and MILLIONS of tax dollars that never enter the system.

EVERLONG you ignorant slut. Don't you know that many or even most illegal immigrants working in the US are doing so with false social security numbers so that not only are they paying in their taxes but also contributint to SS though since the SS numbers aren't their own they will never be able to collect benefits based on those contributions nor send in an income tax return and request a refund for their overpayment of tax.
So millions of illegals are paying taxes but a few millionaires aren't and you are concerned about the poor illegals....sad, just sad. You need to develope some perspective on this.

Danni,

Are you ok with the false social security cards and illegal immigration? Do you believe the rhetoric about illegals only do jobs americans won't?

I don't agree with them.

I also don't agree with american companies having off-shore companies that allow them to not pay taxes.

No, Danni, I have the right perspective, you don't. This is not about comparing millionaires to illegal workers. It is about money that is not in the system due to criminal behavior. You keep only mentioning the poor illegal worker, but you leave out the rich company that employs them. I have mentioned them all.

And your point about fake SS #'s, which I am very well aware of, is also irrelevant. So what if some of them pay taxes and some pay that don't get a refund. That does not have a single thing to do with the ones who don't and the businesses who don't pay taxes on them.

Are you saying that since some pay and some don't get a refund then it's okay for the others not to? By this reasoning then KBR should be in the clear because TONS more corporations pay taxes. This should make up for the taxes they didn't pay.

You hate corperations, just admit it. And quit trying to make a point by playing the poor immigrant against the big corporation card. It's irrelevant.

EVERLONG I do not support illegal immigration and I have said many many times here that the employers who hire them should be punished. However, I just don't think that "taxes" from such low paid people is a major consideration in figuring out how to deal with illegal immigration.

"You hate corperations, just admit it."

You are a joke. I don't like corporations that make billions of dollars from tax dollars operating from an offshore tax haven....and you translate that into "I hate all corporations." Riiiights. I owned my own corporation at one point....but I paid my taxes and I just think that the big boys can too.
This argument is too dumb to continue.

And DRagonlady no I don't believe illegal aliens only do jobs Americans won't do. I think they do jobs that Americans want decent pay to do. Employers of these people are to blame. However, I don't hate illegal immigrants who come here to try to make a living from a country that has nothing for them. If it was me or you we'd do the exact same thing they are. NAFTA hasn't only hurt Americans you know, because of it small Mexican farmers have been devastated by the low cost food grains that our corporate farms export to Mexico. many of the illegal immigrants were peasants working on family farms just a few years ago...before NAFTA.

Get used to it. The employees know the score NO TAXES! Better check your mutual fund investments. You just might be profiting from these "evil" corporations.
I did not see anything in the piece that said it is a violation of our laws.

You are a joke. I don't like corporations that make billions of dollars from tax dollars operating from an offshore tax haven....and you translate that into "I hate all corporations." Riiiights. I owned my own corporation at one point....but I paid my taxes and I just think that the big boys can too.
This argument is too dumb to continue.


Sure, Danni, pick the one little sentence that offended you but ignore the entire argument and the points that were made. Fine if you are against illegal immigration, and if you paid attention you would see where I too think it's bullshit for corporations to scam millions in tax dollars.

But that wasn't the point was it?

And by the way, I have treated you with respect on this, without any name calling, but you just can't seem to be able to do the same. In other words, I'm not a joke, your argument that illegals and companies who don't pay taxes is not as bad as corporaions who don't is a joke. So fuck you too.

I owned my own corporation at one point....but I paid my taxes and I just think that the big boys can too.
This argument is too dumb to continue.

So?

What was your personal income as the owner of a corporation?

What was the income of your corporation?

not the same thing as what you talking about. You were free to operate as a sole proprietor or LLC if you wanted to.

I work with a lot of family owned small business that are all corporations.

None of them pay very much corporate income tax.

they pay a lot of personal income tax however.

EBERLY I doubt if we ever had to pay corporate income tax but we did have to pay SS taxes for every employee and isn't that what KBR has been accused of avoiding?

"I did not see anything in the piece that said it is a violation of our laws."

Great...you get it! Now, the billion-dollar question: why isn't it?

If corporate America doesn't get hosed with taxes and over regulation, why did Haliburton ship out to Dubui? If you wonderful liberal socialists win the Presidency there will be a stampede to other countries. The death spiral of our economy will make you dizzy. Don't you understand that the doers have the option of not participating in your social experiment?

You're right Danni.

I thought you meant the other taxes.

Why isn't this illegal?

"If corporate America doesn't get hosed with taxes and over regulation, why did Haliburton ship out to Dubui?"

Can't subpoena records from Dubai. Any criminal wrong doing that corporate records could reveal...now out of reach.

"Don't you understand that the doers have the option of not participating in your social experiment?"

WE can also decide to not allow them to participate in little things like Iraq reconstruction, etc. too.

You'd think some of these posters were big stock holders or something....instead of just brainwashed ideologues unable to question anything that the corporate oligarchy does. It has been estimated that corruption has cost us over 100 billion dollars during the Iraq invasion and occupation....and you worry about the corporations that hide their records in Dubai.....
amazing.
BTW, this is NOT a Republican/Democrat or right/left issue. Crony capitalists have stolen your money along with mine.

Can't subpoena records from Dubai. Any criminal wrong doing that corporate records could reveal...now out of reach.

danni

Typical socialist response. How about this? They have a more fair chance of keeping more of their profit?
Don't tell me you have never said "all they care about is the bottom line"!
I would agree to that statement. That is what the are PAID FOR!

BTW, this is NOT a Republican/Democrat or right/left issue. Crony capitalists have stolen your money along with mine.

Posted by danni

What in the hell are you referring to? Example please?

Can't subpoena records from Dubai. Any criminal wrong doing that corporate records could reveal...now out of reach.

You are correct!

Although the Helliburton apologists will point out that although Helliburton is "run" from it's Dubai HQ it retains it's Houston HQ as well.

This two HQ gambit allows Helliburton to not only cover their ass legally but it also gives them a permanent sword to hold over legislaters heads ie. Don't piss us off or we'll move out of the country entirely.

Wonder where they got that idea from?

The WH, obviously.

Cheney who is like the Dubai HQ of Helliburton and Dumbya is the Houston branch.

Dumbya's only there for show and Cheney runs everything.

This is wot too much experience in DC gets you.

Corporately screwed.

Be Well.

"If corporate America doesn't get hosed with taxes and over regulation, why did Haliburton ship out to Dubui? If you wonderful liberal socialists win the Presidency there will be a stampede to other countries."

Now there's some logic for you: Under the 6 years of unfettered Republican rule XYZ happened, so don't elect the Democrats, because XYZ will happen!

"Typical socialist response."

I get it....if you oppose crony capitalist no bid contracts with well reported corruption obviously occurring....billions involved...then you are a socialist....OK, I understand your deeply intellectual judgement. Brilliant response.

"What in the hell are you referring to? Example please?"

I'm not even going to bother....if you haven't read about the cost over runs, the uncompleted projects, the bad food served to our troops....what planet have you been living on???

More importantly...how did you get there???

Danforth, the democrats and their taxes and regulations on big businesses are one of the big reasons why so many jobs ARE going over seas, and it's why so many companies seek refuge in tax shelters in other countries.

This is not an xyz circumstance because xyz has already happened.

If you want the money to stay here then just keep it here.

EBERLY I doubt if we ever had to pay corporate income tax but we did have to pay SS taxes for every employee and isn't that what KBR has been accused of avoiding?-Danni

Then why didn't you just hire illegal workers? That way you wouldn't have had to pay taxes on them.

That is, afterall, what you called me an "ignorant slut" about. I said it was wrong yet I'm "a joke".

Talk about contradicting yourself.

This two HQ gambit allows Helliburton to not only cover their ass legally but it also gives them a permanent sword to hold over legislators heads ie. Don't piss us off or we'll move out of the country entirely. Corporately screwed.

Posted by dethspud

How about that! You win the Kewpie doll. They DO have options. They will have company. Corporately screwed? These corporations are owned by American share holders . Why do you talk as though they are a foreign enemy?

"the democrats and their taxes and regulations on big businesses are one of the big reasons why so many jobs ARE going over seas, and it's why so many companies seek refuge in tax shelters in other countries."

You're very confused. Name one tax law or regulation written by the Democrats in the last 7 years.

"This is not an xyz circumstance because xyz has already happened."

...under the Republican's watch, or haven't you been paying attention?

...under the Republican's watch, or haven't you been paying attention?

Posted by Danforth

So, do you agree that tax laws and regulations are so bad that companies have been forced out?

""the democrats and their taxes and regulations on big businesses are one of the big reasons why so many jobs ARE going over seas,"

Well if you say so but I think the fact that Chinese people work for a fraction of American wages has more to do with it.

"So, do you agree that tax laws and regulations are so bad that companies have been forced out?"

So bad??? or just higher than what they have to pay in China???
I hope Americans remember when China reminds us that they are in fact a Communist country...we feed the dragon that will eventually devour us.

So bad??? or just higher than what they have to pay in China???

I want danforth to respond.

He is thinking about how to respond to my question.

4:30 Friday....I'm outahere!

The point is, all I have heard from the Democratic candidates is, we are going to give you this and give you that. Do you really believe them? Is this what the United States Constitution mandates? I think not. The only reason we have come this far is individual freedom. Real freedom carries with it personal risk. I just think some people won't or can't accept those risks. If you do or don't do things for yourself the result is your own responsibility.
If you fail to own your freedom you are not free.

You're very confused. Name one tax law or regulation written by the Democrats in the last 7 years.


Well, considering outsourcing and off-shore corporate accounts started occuring about 20 to 30 years ago I hardly think legislation in the past 7 years matters much.

And it is and has been the left, or democrats, who push constantly for stricter regulation of corporations. Are you telling me that republicans are the ones who are in favor of and who push for penalties on corporations? If so, that flies in the face of what democrats think of republicans and their policies towards corporate
America.

Well if you say so but I think the fact that Chinese people work for a fraction of American wages has more to do with it.


No question it has something to do with it, but we've been buying from China for years. Why, all of a sudden, did we also start sending the work there? Did they suddenly become capable of assembling machinery or other things?

I agree that it has something to do with it but it is a combination of things that created the outsourcing. Which is why I just said that taxes and regulations was a big part of it.

I get it....if you oppose crony capitalist no bid contracts with well reported corruption obviously occurring....billions involved...then you are a socialist....OK, I understand your deeply intellectual judgement. Brilliant response.

Posted by danni

This contract came under a 5 year deal that was set in motion a couple of years BEFORE this assigned contract in Iraq. Haliburton BID this (for lack of a better term) general work contract well before 9/11. This was the second time the government had this for bid. It had been won by another company for the prior term. Them's the facts little lady. By the way Haliburton LOST IT ASS in Iraq. They negotiated the deal to KBR.

"I want danforth to respond. He is thinking about how to respond to my question."

Thinking? Nonsense...Danforth was at his weekly wine-tasting. Much more fun than thinking!

But, now back: Do I believe tax laws and regulations are so bad that companies have been forced out?

I believe laws and regulations are incomplete and insufficient when companies can get all the benefits of America without paying any of the costs. If you want the American market, you should pay the American taxes.

Recent history belies that statement. Clinton took deficits and, while he never fully balanced the budget, he did deliver truly balanced budgets to George Bush's doorstep. Bush did exactly the opposite. Ignoring the R/D divide, which economic path is better?

I am sick of this ongoing Bill Clinton blowjob fest over the balanced budget. OK yes the Bush and the republican congress spent money like, like, like ... ok there is nothing to compare with the recent spending, but that is a different issue all together. What Clinton did was get out of the way and not F*ck things up. The rise of the internet and Windows95 are responsible for the boom in the 90's ... and the eventual bust. It took lower taxes to get things really moving anyway. good job Republican Congress and Bill Clinton for getting things done.

This peace dividend is total bullshit, yes we had extra money because we limited defense spending but as a % of GDP it was and is ~5%, so no difference. Instead of retooling our military to fight in decentralized, urban combat situations we cut that money and called it a balanced budget. There is a lot of blame for the under armored / under prepared military at the outset of the war, lets make sure the shit hits everyone responsible.

"There is a lot of blame for the under armored / under prepared military at the outset of the war, lets make sure the shit hits everyone responsible."

True. So tell us, who could have diverted more military funds if needed for Iraq, or chosen to go in without being undermanned? Because with ultimate authority comes ultimate responsibility.

"I am sick of this ongoing Bill Clinton blowjob fest over the balanced budget"

Well, if Boy George had done it, you'd be crowing. But with the exact same accounting procedures at his fingertips, all Bush & the Republicans could do was produce the largest deficits known to man since the dawn of time.

"good job Republican Congress"

For better of for worse, Presidents get the nod. They were called Hoovervilles, not Congressvilles; it was called The Reagan Revolution, not The Tip O'Neill Compromise.

Danforth,

You missed my point on the military, in the 90's the peace dividend was the product of reduced military developmental spending. We also cut many contract manager positions, so we lost some accountabiiy. The military started to make these grand plans for a lighter faster more mobile force. That is double speak for under armored lighter wheeled vehicles. After the fall of the Soviet Union we knew that the next conflict would not be the great tank battle of western europe. We knew it would be an unconventional conflict. But we had the peace dividend so we cut some military spending. Compared to our 13 trillion dollar GDP we don't have much of a budget imbanalce anyway and Bush and the Republicans really screwed the pooch on this one, especially since we had an increase in tax revenue.

I don't know what to say about the balanced budget and the republicans. The suck, not because they were practicing so called fiscal responsibility, but because they were wasting tax dollars. Clinton deserves credit for the balanced budget, good job. It's just too bad he had to do it by cutting the active duty arny force by almost 1/2. We are stuck in Iraq, we have a military presence all over the world in places where we don't need to be. Ok I get it, the left will choose to forget for an entire decade people were calling Sadam a threat and upholding that he had WMD's. Ok Bush the Idiot, the dumbest human ever, was able to hoodwink all of us and convince the entire world that Sadam was a danger. And almost everyone waved their flag and marched along. Never the less we are there and the return tours or the not enough boots on the ground would be an non issue. While I am throwing shit on people, lets blame Rummy, the civilian who wouldn't listen to actual 4 star generals. That's at least one place I think we agree.

As for the third topic, good point.

ok i am done my poorly written rant.

lets make sure the shit hits everyone responsible.

Posted by chlorinehair5

Don't you know the probable dispersment theory?

Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly dispersed.

BJ Willie got a pass for gutting the military after the fall of the USSR but he did get an atta boy for peace divident for the collaps that was caused by RR.

BJ Willie did not get blamed for the sag in our economy in the late 90s. Bush got the credit for that along with the sag in out airlines industry after 9/11/01.

BJ Willie did govern by poles and became very popular because he did the will of the people.

BJ Willie did sign the welfare reform that was passed by congress, that was good and saved us some bucks. He did not get us out of debt.

"Compared to our 13 trillion dollar GDP we don't have much of a budget imbanalce anyway"

We do if you know how to read the numbers. When Bush took office, 11% of our annual budget went to service the debt. Spending has risen each year under Bush, and despite that, now over 16.7% of our annual outlay goes to service the debt. That's an increase of over 50%, in one administration. That's alarming.