Those of you who are bigots on this board can you at least admit it is wrong for Israel to be intentionally aiming at children?

I believe I've heard that it's the kid's fault for playing where the Israelis target.

It's wrong for anyone, anywhere to intentionally target civilians.

JOMAMA

Damn right!! And it is just as bad to place your missile launchers and other military targets in civilian apartments.

Israel has not just a right, but an obligation to protect its citizens from attack. Why is it only convenient to call out Israel, why not condemn the Hamas people for placing these innocents in jeopardy?

Should a nation allow attacks on its people because to respond will possibly harm the young?

All those condemning the killing of children are correct. The people of Israel agree. Don't continue to place them in the position where such harm will occur.

Add Abbas to Hammas-my bad.

Ahh good, another thread by Mahmoud Byrdman now known as "Messiah.

Which one are you Mahmoud, a Muslim or a Leftie wannabe ?

Israel and every country has an obligation and a right to defend its citizens and that's all its doing now. Its shameful that Hamas cares nothing about its innocent citizens who they are deliberately using as shields.

When the rockets end, the operations in Gaza will end. That's been made perfectly clear. But Hamas cannot countermand the orders coming from Iran and cannot stop the rockets so therefore Israel will.

And people get killed in war but Hamas knew that going in and is responsible for whatever happens - NOT Israel.

GZ

I think I just said that but damn. You seem to have a key board on steroids. Do you have to tame that thing down every start up?

A corollary is that it is wrong for anyone, anywhere, to use civilians as shields for military operations.

I want to be sympathetic to the suffering of the Palestinians, but it seems to me as if they initiate aggressive actions such as the missile attacks from Gaza, and then unreasonably seem to expect that the territory from which their attacks are launched will be a sanctuary, a haven from which they can initiate further
attacks.

They also seem to locate their facilities in areas where woman and childre serve as "human shields." Although these people may be innocent, their legitimate complaint may be against their fellow Gazans who jeopardize their well-being by deliberately conducting operations in their proximity, and seemingly wanting them to endure casualties so as to use them for propaganda purposes.

Why didn't the Gazans utilize the evacuation of Israelis from Gaza to engage in some providential productive conduct, something constructive rather than negative destructive action as, for example, destroying the greenhouses?

I would appreciate any information that would serve to clarify my confusion, especially as to why the Israels should refrain from attacking targets in Gaza when missiles are launched from that area in efforts to kill their people and intimidate them.

As I indicated, although I deplore the destruction and circumstances of the people in Gaza, the message of Abbas seems inane to me in that he suggests that the Israelis not respond to attacks. It would seem that he would rather than petitioning the Gazans to halt their provocations as the actions of the Israelis are reactive. The Gazans seem complicit in supporting the actions that bring them grief in return, and using their resources to enable them to kill rather than to prosper.

Those of you who are bigots on this board can you at least admit it is wrong for Israel to be intentionally aiming at children?

Posted by messiah at


sure and it can all stop pretty easily. all they have to do is stop launching rockets into israel EVERY FRICKIN DAY OF THE WEEK........and I also am skeptical when a report from gaza comes in about children getting killed in this. remember the women who were 'special needs' who were supposed to be suicide bombers and the pictures of the young boys with rocket launchers and other weapons.
but of course the only other sure blame game about bush is blame israel.
and you also take a whole lot for granted when you say that israel targets children.
and just read what abbas said......response to rockets cant be that harsh......are you kidding me.

The problem is the lack of intestinal fortitude in the 'IDF'. Since their tactics of always relying on human shields was blown by exposure on the internet and live cable news several years ago, they have to rely on stand off aerial and artillery attacks because the individual soldiers cannot be relied upon to go head to head with minimally armed human adversaries.

Since they can't go in and kill the actual bad guys, the just go as close as necessary to fire their US TAXPAYER PROVIDED bombs and artillery shells in the general direction of the bad guys and get the hell out of dodge.

No other country with a professional army would pull this kind of cowardly bullshit but Israel gets a pass because their adversary is considered sub-human by most of the world.

Before the internet and live cable news, the IDF would go in and grab a some civilians (or red cross workers) and using them as human shields, actually go in and arrest or kill the bad guys. Very few children or non-combatants were getting killed then. They got bad press for bulldozing the houses, but at least back then they let the occupants escape with their lives before the bulldozers flattened them. Now with bombs and artillery shells, no such escape is possible. When is the last time Israel took a prisoner?

I would appreciate any information that would serve to clarify my confusion,


no johnson, you arent confused. you see, with many american liberals like some who have posted here, when there are americans who are FIRMLY on the side of these people who launch rockets into israeli territory EVERY DAY, well you cant listen to them because they dont give a shit about israel, because support of israel is a conservative thing and when it comes to death of jews there, they just dont give a good god damn.
so you are not confused, you are just trying to undestand todays liberal and thats not done easily.

Posted by axe

axe,did your head get chopped off by an axe,because your brain sure seems to be missing.
Jeez...

rwd

Bush and tinyJohnson,

What a couple of Losers you two are as you sit there beating each other off.

You cannot point to a single liberal that ever supported the idiots in Hammas or any other fucking terrorist organization. Your stupid strawman is running a bit short on straw.

Your problem with liberals is that they don't blindly support Israel like you fools do.

As conservatives, you should be concerned where your taxpayer dollars are going. Instead you have your lips surgically attached to the israeli asshole.

You need to understand the concept of NOT SUPPORTING EITHER SIDE is not BEING AGAINST ISRAEL.

If two mad dogs are trying to kill each other, the sane person will not bet on one dog over the other. He would put both down. That's not an option with Israel and their adversaries, so the best thing a rational person can do is either try to intervene for peace or failing that, stay the hell out of the fight. Giving aid to both sides like the US does if totally crazy.

We are talking about Israel defending itself dumbass.
You are posting blame on the victim instead of going right to the source.
No rockets' no response from the IDF.
It is not about which side of the aisle you are on.
It is just plain commonsense.
Something which you are lacking judging from your post.
Find a new fucking brain.


rwd

Those of you who are bigots on this board can you at least admit it is wrong for Israel to be intentionally aiming at children?

Posted by messiah at 2008-03-01 01:37 PM

Absolutely, as soon as they start doing it I and so many others will happly agree with you. You have repeatedly posted threads accusing Israel of just random civilian killing. Bullshit. As I have now stated on several of your threads.

When Abbas and Hammas stop placing their military resources is the housing where families with both women and children are, then the air strikes on military targets will harm no one but the military.

Your attempts to convince people that Israel is indiscriminate and killing anyone at will is the real prejudice. Why don't you just admit your anti-Iraeli or ant-semite feelings and be honest.

To claim that no such feelings exist will fall on empty ears.

If one of your own neighbors shot rockets at your home and family, I bet the bank you would return fire. True? Why do you deny this same right to another country?

The difference is that Israel is using Terror to fight Terror. Pure and simple. The same indiscriminate bombing as the Pals, only the Israelis usually manage to hit something since the US TAXPAYER is footing the bill with more accurate and much deadlier armaments.

You ignored my question about when was the last time Israel actually put boots on the ground and went in and arrested or killed the bad guys face to face?

No other professional army in the world would operate like this. Only a terrorist organization or a bunch of cowards would.

It looks like I've found a way to shut down the GZ brigade single handedly. Ask one simple question and the Zionazis scatter like cockroaches.

wrong axe..and here is another case of you being misguided

As conservatives, you should be concerned where your taxpayer dollars are going. Instead you have your lips surgically attached to the israeli asshole.

Posted by axe at 2008-03-02 12:09 A


yes we send a lot of money there but just how much is the lives of that many people worth to you or anyone else. how much is it worth to have that land in the middle of the cesspool called the middle east...how much is it worth to have that democratic country who is our ally and as a buffer to the other countries taking over the whole pile of shit?>
how much would the lives of the jews murdered by the nazi's be worth? because you see I read all the time the comments from the little hitler prick in tehran about the end of israel and all that. so just how much is the life of an entire country worth?

and oh yeah axe....


Bush and tinyJohnson,

What a couple of Losers you two are as you sit there beating each other off.


Your problem with liberals is that they don't blindly support Israel like you fools do.

lips surgically attached to the israeli asshole.

Posted by axe at 2008-03-02 12:09 AM | Reply



stick all of this bullshit up your ass. either talk to me more like a grownup or shut the fuck up when I post something.

Of my tax dollars? I'd say about the same as we give Brazil, or Cambodia, or, say Lichtenstien. Not a damn penny more. Here's what I'll do. Lets give them exactly double what we gave Canada last year!!! How's that sound?

Sorry, is that better, BL?

I am serious about my fighting terror with terror comment. I thought the US was resolutely against ALL terrorists? What gives here?

Good job IDF! Keep up the pressure on this terrorist scum. If Palis want to bombard civilians with rockets, they should expect nothing less.

Someone wake up Rcade and get the newbie neutered!!!

Both of them!!!

How about a one week waiting period between sign up and posting rights? Works good for handgun purchases.

As the resident troll around here, I get kind of territorial when amateurs show up.

Dickface,


You wouldn't happen to know a DR member known as 'Asshammer', would you?

Dick,


Your humor is crude and sophmoric....

As my wife is fast asleep and I am sitting in front of a computer, it's just what the doctor ordered.

Has anyone ever thought the best thing for Israel to do is to give the Hamas fucks their own state right next to them?? with one stipulation of course----- If one rocket or human bomb comes from your country just one we will reduce it to a waste land of the stone age. think about it what would the responce be if say france was sent rockets by say england or germany what would france do?? or china was sent one by say India or Japan or better yet Tiawan. what do you think a free people should do when their security is at risk. how bout you bleading hearts, picture a RPG comming through your front door?? what is your response going to be??just as I thought you would wish to find out who sent it and remove the rat bastards from exsistance. Israel has shown great restraint that i feel shouldn't be shown to these pricks let their maker decide whom deserves the bloody virgins. what do the ladies get by the way?

I don't know why anybody is worried about stuff like this.

In 324 days (and 6 hours) Barack Obama is going to throw open the gates at Camp David and invite all interested parties to a tea party with the Mad Hatter as it's host.

Then, by golly, we'll see all this hatred between Jews and Arabs disappear forever as hope and inspiration blossom throughout the middle east . . unconditionally.

(Now, that being said, there's this bridge in Brooklyn that I've been trying to sell.)

As my wife is fast asleep and I am sitting in front of a computer, it's just what the doctor ordered.

Posted by JeffJ at 2008-03-02 01:45 AM

When she refuses sex, there is always DR. :)

Thats sounds great twinpac, hiliary can be queen of tarts and Bill the white rabbit. A minature Obama with a squeaky vice would be funny as hell too.

Ray; can a wife legally refuse sex if shes fast asleep?

***** Since they can't go in and kill the actual bad guys, the just go as close as necessary to fire their US TAXPAYER PROVIDED bombs and artillery shells in the general direction of the bad guys and get the hell out of dodge. *****

.......the funny thing is that we support BOTH SIDES in this conflict.......US taxpayers send 75 million cash "aid" to the Palestinians and billions to Israel.......

**** Has anyone ever thought the best thing for Israel to do is to give the Hamas fucks their own state right next to them?? Posted by GenSherman ****

.......that's just what they did........

.....but those peace-loving Palestinians hate each other even more than they hate the Israelis.......

.....when Hamas ran out of Abbas' men to kill, they started in on shooting rockets into Israel....

***** Those of you who are bigots on this board can you at least admit it is wrong for Israel to be intentionally aiming at children?

Posted by messiah *****

........since the Palestinians are willingly offering their children as martyrs.......would it not be wrong to refuse ??......

......Hamas is responsible for every dead Palestinian killed by Israel......

Hammas and the Palastinians have only themselves to blame. Cripe all they have to do is stop launching rockets into Isreal and all this stops.

How stupid and blind can they be. As a boss I had used to say, If they are that stupid, then we cannot help them.

no i wont admit its wrong for them to target children if the Hamas fucks are cowardly enough to hide the launchers within a school ground level the place to the ground kill them all let their god sort out the scum. it is you that dosnt get the picture, Oh ya BO baby will cure the world.

Hamas is the aggressor

Yeah sure, just like the Iraqis and Afghanis.

"Yeah sure, just like the Iraqis and Afghanis."

The Iraqis and Afghanis that don't belong to some radical group like AlQaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas, or the Taliban aren't aggressors.

Hamas has instigated and provoked this conflict with its constant terror against Israeli towns. Now, they are using civilians as human shields. Some of the misfired Qassam missiles have hit Gaza buildings killing civilians, which Hamas blamed on Israel. Palestinian witnesses have been quoted by AP as saying that. They routinely violate international laws of conflict as well as deprive Gazans of basic necessities. Its been widely reported that Hamas only give supplies to their supporters leaving the rest of Gazans without them. That`s intentional starvation of its own population. Its time for the IDF to clean out Gaza of Hamas for the sake of Israelis and Palestinians. Even most of the Arab world and the Palestinians realize the necessity of that. Failure to do that will continue to turn Gaza into an outpost of Jihadist Iran and will support Hamas` genocidal policies.

Jest

I was generalizing. It was the Zionists who stole the land from the Palestinian natives, and our military who attacked Iraq and Afghanistan.

That makes the Zionists and our military the aggressors. There are radical groups because that is the only way to deal with aggressor nations.

You and your ilk were never ones to deal with those inconvenient realities.

Bush better get a move on. he has less than 11 months to tame the wild, wild Middle East and guarantee some real reason to build a monument to greed, graft, and incompetence next to SMU.

"It was the Zionists who stole the land from the Palestinian natives, "

Liar or complete moron

Fact Ray

The United Nations partitioned the land in 1948 between the original Palestinians which was what Jews were called - and the Arabs now called Palestinians. In fact Ray, if you knew your history, these Arabs invaded and have been occupying Jewish land. But lets stick to what's relatively current 1948 period.

The Arabs rejected the UN/World Partition and chose war
They lost
They tried again in 1956
They lost
They tried again in 1967
they lost
they tried again in 1972
They lost

And in your world Ray you start war and lose you get a "do over" ?

What reality do you live in?

I hear Bush wanted to end the charade we think of as the US being independent of Israel.

In fact, Bush spoke to Peres, and offered to make Israel our 51st state.

Peres said "NO way. Two senators aren't enough".

That was beautiful GZ. You've described some of the events by which Palestine was stolen from the natives.

In my reality, stealing is a crime. In your world, might makes right.

In fact Ray, if you knew your history, these Arabs invaded and have been occupying Jewish land.

WTF does that have to do with the current conflict? If you knew your history, you would know that Arab conquerers were preceded by what is now Iraq, Persia, Greece and Italy. Only you Jewish nut cases will insist that the land belongs to Jews in perpetuity because it was willed to them by Yahweh. Christian fundamentalist are hoping it brings the end of the world.

Stealing?

Doesn't your ignorance embarrass you?

So the UN partition didn't count ?

The Brits stole the land from the Turks?

The Turks stole the land from who exactly .... the Jews?

Ray ... go back to your Bible crap

Do you know what criteria was used to be deemed an "Arab (Palestinian) refugee" by the UN?

Do you Ray?

No of course you don't. Its much easier to just blame the Jews for whatever it is you don't understand.

36 months Ray.
It took just 36 months of living in the territory for the UN to grant you "refugee status".

How many of your so called "natives" had been living there longer then 3 years Ray? Do you know?

Face it friend, you know very little bordering on nothing.

GZ
So the UN partition didn't count ?

No. Because the UN never had the moral or sovereign authority to give away private land that didn't belong to them.

Nations and they're supranational institutions steal all the time. Most times, that is what starts wars. It's even in the Ten Commandment. "Thou shalt not steal." Ever hear of that one? Sealing is stealing and there is no law that can change the morality of stealing.

Do you even know what "steal" means? If you had a home and it was taken away from you from the state without compensation, then, perhaps, then you would know what it means to be robbed. Especially if it was taken at gunpoint.

I guess you never heard of the concept of property rights. Such is the pathetic state of education these days. You're so damn stupid, you can't see or don't want to see why they haven't given up fighting. They should just obey like good little sheep. Well, that's not going to happen in their world.

Face it friend, you know very little bordering on nothing.

Posted by GZlives at 2008-03-02 11:51 AM

A criticism hurled by one who shows no awareness of the morality of stealing and the concept of property rights.

......the simple fact is that the Palestinians are causing the Palestinian deaths through "Rocket Retribution"........

........its like people who commit suicide by provoking the police to shoot them........

54 dead? Leave it to Israel to only kill 54. Another example of Israel treating those mutts with kid gloves.

Ray,

Technically, property rights are given by the sovereign, the sovereign changed. The current sovereign was bound by certain conventions (UN), which you don't seem to think has any authority.

They could not force people to leave thier homes, during the occupation, there are plenty of examples of Arabs that stayed put in thier homes, and were not forced to leave.

The ones that left fell to the fear of rumor that the Israelis would kill them.

Unfortunately after such massacres by both Arabs and Jews (Dir Yassim, Lydda, Kfar Etzion) this rumor wasn't a crazy thought.

GZ my threads have exposed you for what you are.... A bigot

***** GZ my threads have exposed you for what you are.... A bigot
Posted by messiah ******

......this is the pot calling the kettle black......

.......GZ is a pro Israel bigot ....and you are a pro Arab bigot......

.........you are the same thing.........

Please GZ. list the Israeli casualties over the last six months due to Palestinian rocket attacks.

***** Please GZ. list the Israeli casualties over the last six months due to Palestinian rocket attacks.

Posted by geezer1 ******

.........are you defending the rocketing of Israel ?........

no, but it seems odd that you have a few minor injuries on one side over extended periods of time yet one Israeli rocket takes out 60 civilians. Also, instead of just blaming hate of Israel, we might want to look at the conditions under which Israel keeps the Palistinians. These people are not autonomous. Everything in their lives is controlled by Israel. Food, water, money, jobs, etc.

Andrea

You have that backwards. Rights are given by the people to the sovereign. That principle is embedded in our Constitution but has been inverted in recent decades.

By GZ's logic, all rights belong to the conquering power. From that premise, it follows that the people are subject to the arbitrary whims of the sovereign.

The ones that left fell to the fear of rumor that the Israelis would kill them.

Whether Palestinians were erroneously lured out by their own, or terrorized out by the Zionists, the effect is the same if they are not allowed peaceful return.

Of course, none of this makes a difference to the Zionists. They won't last. I'll give them 20-40 years.

.......the Palestinians could have better lives if the rocketing stopped.........

......Gaza was sealed off from jobs and free travel because of the terrorist bombing and the rockets....... the Palestinians have shitty lives because they choose the path of violence.......

So the Palestinian mutts are ineffective killers? Well then that settles it!

Even though you rock throwing monkies are actually trying your "bestest" to kill us (but just like with your existence, you suck), we'll leave you alone until you get more efficient at it.
Sincerely,
Israel



I hope Israel gives geezer a special cell phone and calls him immediately (geezer, a "cell phone" is a phone that's cordless and can be used away from your home).

Please GZ. list the Israeli casualties over the last six months due to Palestinian rocket attacks.

Posted by geezer1 at 2008-03-02 12:40 PM |

And alongside, list the Palestine causalities due to Israeli bombs, bullets and the Gazan siege. Usually the ratio is about 20 Palestinians to one Israeli.

........well Geezer........

........if you are saying that the rocketing of Israel is wrong.......then what do you say would be an appropriate response by Israel..??.......

**** And alongside, list the Palestine causalities due to Israeli bombs, bullets and the Gazan siege. Usually the ratio is about 20 Palestinians to one Israeli.
Posted by Ray ****

......then one would assume, at some point, the Palestinians would be bright enough to do the math and stop the rockets......

....then one would assume, at some point, the Palestinians would be bright enough to do the math and stop the rockets......

POSTED BY SKIZZIKS AT 2008-03-02 12:59 PM | REPLY


Come on, nobody has ever accused these mutts of being bright. They throw rocks at tanks for fucks sake.
They also have jihadi's in Mickey Mouse outfits encouraging toddlers to kill jews.

I'm disappointed in the 20 to 1 ratio, but I have confidence that the Israeli's can make it 50 maybe even 100 to 1 with a couple of cluster bomb runs.

then one would assume, at some point, the Palestinians would be bright enough to do the math and stop the rockets...

One would assume wrong. As sixty years of conflict proves, it only makes them madder.

..........there is a Darwinian process going on among the Palestinians.........

.........the brightest and most peace loving among them have left to live in other countries (my neighbour was a doctor and his wife was an accountant from Gaza, they would rather work at Wal-Mart here than stay there as professionals).......

........increasingly....who remains.....are the dumb and the violence prone........

.........this does not auger well for Gaza's future.........

***** then one would assume, at some point, the Palestinians would be bright enough to do the math and stop the rockets...

One would assume wrong. As sixty years of conflict proves, it only makes them madder.

Posted by Ray ******

.........and more extinction prone.........

.......they are committing cultural suicide by "Rocket Retribution".........

Suicide by stupidity.

Actually the Palestinian population is increasing faster than the Israeli population. I think the Israel population hardly changes. Kill one; they'll make two. Do the math.

.........this does not auger well for Gaza's future.........
Posted by skizziks

Neither does launching rockets from innocent neighborhoods. Not that it justifies death, but it doesn't bother my conscience as much since these were some of the neighborhoods that flooded the streets and cheered when the twin towers were leveled along w/ our innocent countrymen. They're on their own, man.

........ahh Sunday afternoon.........

..........both the Jews and Arabs will have to survive without my withering wit and unbiased world view.........

.........I am going down to the wine shop...pick up young Beaujolais.......stop in at the video store....get a new release....and enjoy the wine and movie with my family..........

........yes......I feel bad for the Palestinians that they will not be enjoying a relaxed afternoon on full bellies surrounded by friends.....

.......but really........the answer is obvious......good afternoon all.......

it only makes them madder. Posted by Ray


I have to agree. Their insanity knows no bounds.

Gaza is ruled by the current incarnation of the Muslim Brotherhood. It originated in Egypt as a response to the British, and after aligning themselves with Nazi Germany they began targeting the Jews.

Their leaders were deported and found refuge in Saudi Arabia where they gained influence and preached a restoration of the caliphate. It is their teachings that inspired Osama bin Laden and the mujahadden.

Their goal is jihad and paradise, so what's wrong with helping them achieve both? Give them a choice: Live in peace, live somewhere else, or die. This tit for tat has been going on for too long.

This tit for tat has been going on for too long.

I agree completely. I see no way that it's ever going to stop, though. I don't see why it should be our fight, and I'm sick of being expected to take a side in a fight where it seems everyone is wrong.

Americans have been lucky in that most of our wars ended decisively (Revolution, Civil War, WWII) and ended the conflict. That's simply not the pattern in most of the world, and Israel/Palestine is a perfect example. No military action will EVER end this conflict.

I don't know what the solution is, and I don't care. I just want the US to stay as far as possible from it.

And finally for the record ...

Most here like Ray and Mahmoud aka Byrdman and now known as "Messiah" and some others, talk as though they really do care about these Fakestinians. Like Mahmoud here going on about all these poor civilians being killed by the evil Zionists who dare to respond to the 7000 unaimed rockets fired into their cities in the hopes of killing anything who happens to get in the way.

Taking our DR members at their word - that they really care about the Palestinian Arabs, some months ago when the Lebanese Army was trying to kill members of the radical Muslim group Fatah Islam who were then hiding out amongst civilians in the Palestinian refugee camp Nahr Al-Bared located in Lebanon, I was here looking for a single comment, a single post condemning the Lebanese who were just shelling day and night killing lots of Palestinian civilians "accidentally" but eventually after weeks driving out and killing Fatah Islam.

And did I find a single post from our self righteous sanctimonious DR twits condemning the killing of their precious civilians by the Lebanese? What do you think?
Not a single one. Not a comment. NOTHING.

And so what does one assume? What's the only thing one can assume given this FACT?

What we have here is a bunch of racist bigoted Jew haters who don't give a fuck about a single Arab - in fact obviously don't even know when these Arabs they endlessly defend against the "evil Zionists" are really being murdered and by their own brethren.

But just let a single Jew dare to fight back, dare to defend himself, and the wrath of the indignant self righteous here pounce spreading their ugly vitriol while accusing all who would disagree with exactly what they are most guilty of.

At best indifference, but lets face it, it ain't at best at all - this gang are out and out bigots and ought to be treated as such.

Most here like Ray and Mahmoud aka Byrdman and now known as "Messiah" and some others, talk as though they really do care about these Fakestinians.

Wrong GZ. I don't give a shit about Palestinians any more than I give a shit about Israelis. I'm just telling you why they do what they do and why you Zionists were stupid for underestimating them.

So keep beating up on them. I'm seeing a resistant movement that is getting stronger and better organized. You reap what you sew.

Ray, you are endlessly defending them.
You make reality up here to defend them.
You invent history here to defend them
and now you're going to say you "don't give a shit"?


Excuse me while I : ) laugh

GZ - you are incredibly blind. I haven't seen one speck of insight on why they do what they do.

"I don't see why it should be our fight, and I'm sick of being expected to take a side in a fight where it seems everyone is wrong."

I agree. Why side with either the Hatfields or McCoys? These people are never to going to stop killing each other.

We have every right to stand by an ally to whom we've pledged our support since the day they opened shop in Palestine. We owe them the support we've promised. That's one thing you can depend on from a lib....when the tough get going, they're hard to find. They find all kinds of literate and philisophical justifications to run from (nonverbal)confrontation. What is amazing to me are the scores of Jews in NY and FL who seem to think the same way and insanely vote Billary. You wanna see fireworks in the Mid. East....Let Iran proclaim their 1st nuke.

You wanna see fireworks in the Mid. East....Let Iran proclaim their 1st nuke

Wouldn't that kinda force Israel to admit to their nuclear arsenal?

You know, ...the biggest and worst kept secret in the world?

Israel kills, imprisons and tortures way more Palestinians than vice versa.

Spud condems all such atrocities and refuses to shill fer either side as opposed to folk on the right who think anything Israel does is justified and anything Palestine does is worthy of even more lop sided murder by Israel.

If Israel was really America's ally they wouldn't spy on america the way they do and overly influence American ME policy through AIPAC.

Be Well.

Sorry, is that better, BL?

Posted by axe at 2008

damn straight. you might just be okay afterall.

"Israel kills, imprisons and tortures way more Palestinians than vice versa.
"

Uh excuse me Spudsky but once again you've sort of got things upside down in that Leftist pea brain of yours. And, I'd say you're lying again but I know you're merely repeating some other liar or idiot who's bought into the latest from the "Free Palestine" crowd. The latest fad I hear in the Left.
How on earth do you reconcile their support of murdering by stoning to death gays for being gay?
I suppose the Jew hatred is so acute, fuck the gays right ?
Pathetic ..

Here's the facts pal ..

The Israelis RETALIATE to the constant Arab attacks that began in 1948 when the State was born.

Then they attacked again
in 1956
in 1967
in 1972

Each time hoping to kill every last Jew they could get their hands on.

But thankfully, they continued to lose.

You apparently have problems with Jews defending themselves ?
Its OK with you that 7000 rockets are fired indiscriminately into Israeli cities which is a WAR CRIME.
Its OK that they send their people into Israeli clubs, pizza joints, restaurants, buses, bus stop to kill as many civilians as they can kill?

Obviously its OK to kill Jews but just don't dare to hurt one of them terrorist guys eh?

You ain't no spud Spud - your a dick

BTW GZ, Pakistan is getting more unstable by the week. It's the blowback effect from our presence in Afghanistan.
Israel's problems have yet to peak.

Yes Deth, any country should permit its citizens to be bombarded daily. First it was frontier towns and now a city of 120,000, Ashkelon, that is under fire.

I suppose from your perspective, the Israelis did the correct thing in enabling the Gazans to arm themselves with more effective missiles that could routinely reach Israeli population centers.

The Israelis should have long ago adopted a "no tolerance" policy and responded with overwhelming force when Gaza was used as a launch area for missiles. The first missile launch should have caused a massive response.

The failure to use sufficient deterrence resulted in the Gazans continual testing of the parameters to which they could stretch their violent assaults before provoking a response.

The Israeli response occurred when the missile barrages increased. It's more than 7500 missiles launched to date. Sderot has become a place subject to continuing attacks. Isn't it the duty of a government to try to interdict attacks against its citizens and intercede to prevent those attacks from continuing?

When the Israelis did not respond forcefully to the initial attacks they gave the green light for continued attacks.

And the good old Muslims, being a death cult seeking martyrdom in jihadi activities seems gratified at being able to sacrifice their people, who are then on their way to Paradise. I reckon that since a man gets 72 virgins in Paradise, the women will be disappointed. They won't get 72 studs. In fact, they'd be lucky to become houris and be able to serve a male martyr. Islamics don't think much of women.

Frivolity aside, the tactic of the Islamics of putting their military installations and shooting missiles while among civilian populations knowing that it would attract counterbattery fire, seems to be contrary to what decent people would do. But then, these are Islamics with standards that differ from those of Westerners. The Islamics seem to lack such culturally imposed restraints.

Deth as I gather from your brilliant dissertation in your distinguished argot, you would have the Israelis just continue to accept bombardment because the casualties have been disproportionate?

It sounds masochistic to me, but then we project our own personality traits into our stated positions. What about it Deth, should the Israelis accept continuing attacks rather than attempt to pacify the Gazans? Why? What about the "quality of life" thing, and the effect of being under continual bombardment on Israelis. Is that acceptable. The Gazans say they won't stop. In fact, they refuse to abandon their goal to destroy Israel and kill all Israelis, claiming that Israel should not exist, and deluding themselves into asserting that Israel doesn't exist.

How does one deal with such intransigent people to eliminate attacks? Come on Deth, use leftist logic, and come up with a solution other than the Israelis reliving Masada and killing themselves, or removing themselves from the region.

Remember Deth, that when the Israelis removed their presence in Gaza, instead of doing anything productive, the Gazans initiated and intensified hostile activities. The move toward "peace," merely encouraged the Palestinians to engage in more and greater aggression. The only limitation on their murderous activities seems to be logistical. They have a blood lust and are willing to suffer for the chance to satisfy it.

Posted by axe at 2008-03-02 12:09 AM

Bush and tinyJohnson,

What a couple of Losers you two are as you sit there beating each other off.

Do you have any insight into how the somewhat perverse sexual fantasies that you conjure are related to your political positions?

Deth as I gather from your brilliant dissertation in your distinguished argot, you would have the Israelis just continue to accept bombardment because the casualties have been disproportionate?

No, Spud's just saying don't over-react and make things worse.

As Spud sees the thing, Israel has had a thirty year long policy of revenge and vendetta against the Palestinian peoples that has been structured so as to create massive instability and violence thus allowing the IDF to claim "We can't leave yet"(TM). Instead of making serious efforts towards peace and stability the gameplan has always been increased violence and instability until you get to the point where we are today where the cycle of violence is part of everyday life.

The Helliburton built wall continues to go up, the settlements continue to be built, the clusterbombs continue to be dropped and then go on killing Palestinian kid long after they were dropped. The off shore bombardments continue, the imprisoning continues, the torture continues, the daily huimiliations continue.

Israel has made making peace much harder than it needs to be. Not that the Palestinians are any fucking better, btw. Spud despises them for their casual violence and their lack of proper respect for life.

Still when it comes to waging peace all the cards are in the hands of the US and Israel not the Palestinians and yet for the last thirty years the western press has consistently blamed the Palestrinians for the lack of progress in that regard.

Be Well.

"Latest rocket attack on Israel = 1 Dead Israeli.

Israeli Retaliation = 70+ Dead Palestinians."

Why?
Your buddies hate their people and use them as pawns in their Islamist game

"But IDF sources said the much larger Grad missiles, brought in via Sinai, were being fired from farther inside heavily populated areas of the Gaza Strip, including from Gaza City itself."

"Soldiers reported that the enemy in northern Gaza was using a wide range of weapons, including
improvised explosive devices, anti-tank missiles and snipers. Booby-traps were found in some of the houses, and in at least one case, soldiers discovered a weapons storehouse inside a mosque."

Ooops hiding weapons in a Mosque so when the Israelis hit it, people like you will whine and winge and condenm the Israelis as you call them Nazis and worse.

"One Grad hit the city, tearing through the wall of a home in which a woman and her three grandchildren were sitting. Fortunately, in the four seconds between the time the "Color Red" siren was sounded and the instant the rocket tore into the side of the house, the four managed to run to a more secure interior room."

Damn that Jew technology eh Spud?

That's the problem with you lefties. Somehow you equate body count with fairness. The Jews need to have more killed and then the fighting will be "equal" as if there's some reason for those defending themselves not to use as much force as possible. After all, they didn't attack first, they didn't fire rockets and missiles indiscriminately into Gaza - which in my opinion they should have so people like you would shut their idiot mouths since that surely would kill even more innocent people duhhh

But I digress

"Residents of Sderot and the western Negev were somewhat less fortunate, with an estimated four dozen rockets striking in communities and in open areas. Four people suffered shrapnel wounds, and Sderot-based Magen David Adom teams treated 14 people for shock."

"The IDF is considering directing artillery fire at the source of rocket launchings. Barak is expected to convene a discussion on the legality of this tactic, since the rockets are frequently fired from residential areas."

Hey Spudsky ... think Hamas would ever convene a meeting to discuss avoiding civilian Jewish casualties? That surely deserves a FF yes?

BWAAAAAAAAAAAA


And just to top it all off

"n the midst of the fighting, the Defense Ministry gave permission for a massive humanitarian convoy to enter southern Gaza through the Sufa crossing on Sunday afternoon. The Gaza Strip Coordination and Liaison Administration oversaw the delivery of 62 trucks, including three carrying medical supplies (bandages, water pumps, tourniquets, etc.), seven with World Food Program cooking oil, seven carrying sugar, nine bearing milk products, eight carrying fruit, two with water purification supplies and four with meat and fish products. It was the first such mission to go through the Sufa crossing in recent months."

Your a complete idiot Spud or just a dumb fool

"to create massive instability and violence thus allowing the IDF to claim "We can't leave yet"

You have some nerve Spud ... really. At least before mouthing off why can't you see the situation as it really is? why aren't you capable of doing your own investigation rather then swallow the bullshit like candy?

You accuse the Israelis of saying "we can't leave yet"?

But they left Gaza Spud, threw out thousands of Israeli settlers who had lived there for more then 30 years.

Those settlers left a thriving agricultural/greenhouse business and look what happened?

Rockets were brought in closer and were fired into Israel every single day. Day after day.

And so your excuse for that Spud is ?

I know you people just find one reason after another to defend these thugs but methinks you're quickly running into a wall here.

The Israelis, the IDF, every Jewish man woman and child left leaving Apartheid Gaza Jew free .. and now what's the excuse?

They wrecked the green houses, wrecked the farms.

What's the excuse Spud? The occupation? Occupation of what and who?

The Egyptians occupied Gaza for decades. That was never a "Palestinian" territory.

The West Bank was occupied by Jordan, also never a "Palestinian" territory.

You see, its a game that you on the Left have all been sucked into. The thinking on the Islamist side is much the same as it was on the Nazi Germany side. The Germans knew that the world hates the Jews and would never believe them when they began telling of death camps in the East. they discussed it before ordering mass deportations to the final solution. And now the Islamists appear to be absolutely correct in assuming nothing much has chnaged. I've corrected you three times this evening. You are endlessly spreading what's just factually untrue or so one sided it appears you're literally blind. In your last post at least it seems you're beginning to question yourself.

Johnson's point about how no country would ever be expected to stand by and allow their citizens to be fired upon by rockets is absolutely correct. Can you imagine the US would sit by for a year while one of the States was rocketed? How about Russia? Britain? Its inconceivable.

Only Israel is somehow expected to sit by - like they sat by when Iraq fired Scuds on their cities during the first Gulf War.

And no one fought any war for Israel Spud. I need to correct you yet again.

Doesn't that Leftist claptrap nonsense sicken you if only because its just lies?

For once GZ I would like for you to just come out and admit you won't be satisfied until the Palestinians are driven out or exterminated. You just can't admit that the jews are occupying what should be Muslim land.

Hows that foot tasting Spudsky?

He's already started on dessert - jihadi schlong with a cream filling.

GZlives spams another poster to death.

Posted by dethspud at 2008-03-02 11:24 PM

Still when it comes to waging peace all the cards are in the hands of the US and Israel not the Palestinians and yet for the last thirty years the western press has consistently blamed the Palestrinians for the lack of progress in that regard.

WASHINGTON - Israeli officials warned the George W Bush administration that an invasion of Iraq would be destabilizing to the region and urged the United States instead to target Iran as the primary enemy, according to former Bush administration official Lawrence Wilkerson

BushCo informed Israel that the real plan was to invade and occupy Iraq and then create instability by de-bathification which would lead inevitably to a power vacuum which Iran would rush to fill.

This would give the US the excuse they need to destroy Irans semi secret nuclear program and possibly invade occupy and steal their oil fields as well.

Hence Cheney on the deck of an aircraft carrier rattling a nuclear tipped saber in Iran's direction. The idea that Israel didn't want to see Saddam deposed is, of course, sheer nonsense. You prolly know this yerself but Spud is suprised that you'd think Spud would buy into the notion that the country that lobbed SCUD missiles into Israel during the first Gulf War wasn't an Israeli target.

Trouble is America is going broke trying to prosecute a two front war and simply cannot afford to start a third. Not just monetarily but the world simply will not allow that additional respource war to occur. Can't afford it. If that actually did happen then America would no doubt be nuked. Prolly not right away but definitely within ten years. Prolly a SNUKE supplied by any number of sources and detonated by one of the legion of jihadists "not-so-smart" bomb types.

Smarter move would be a biological assault with an airborne form of smallpox/ebola.

Either/or.

Be Well.

Johnson-
So what's the solution? (You've said as much, but I'd like to hear a declarative statement)

Johnson-
I'm sorry. There it is: "then repatriate the Arabs to Arab countries. They are the irreconcilable culprits."

Have you ever been "repatriated" out of your home?

Posted by Ray at 2008-03-02 12:01 PM

Do you even know what "steal" means? If you had a home and it was taken away from you from the state without compensation, then, perhaps, then you would know what it means to be robbed. Especially if it was taken at gunpoint.

I guess you never heard of the concept of property rights. Such is the pathetic state of education these days. You're so damn stupid, you can't see or don't want to see why they haven't given up fighting. They should just obey like good little sheep. Well, that's not going to happen in their world.

Again Ray, do you understand the difference between national sovereignty (and that there was no Arab sovereign in the region), and property? I suspect that you are being obtuse rather than being unable to grasp the difference. Israeli sovereignty did not cause any Arab, who remained in Israel to lose control of his property. The Arabs are trying to obtain control of Israel as a nation and destroy it. Most of the Arabs are not descendants of people who had lived in the area for any extended period of time. Rather they were like migrant workers who came from elsewhere to work on land that the Jews had developed.

Sovereignty. Property. Get it?

If you don't grasp the differentiation, I'd be glad to focus on the difference and explain it to you in greater detail, and also provide examples that might facilitate your understanding.

Naturally the MohrOn-pud comes back for a second helping.

Playing the "moral card" when we know he's just playing a variation of 3-card Monte.


Have you ever been "repatriated" out of your home?

Tens of thousands of Jews were "expatriated" from Muslim countries when the nation of Israel was formed.

Prior to the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood, which was driven out of Egypt, the Jews lived peacefully alongside the Muslims. Then they were subjected to riots and murder. The filthy Brits wouldn't protect them so the formed their own defense.

The Brits also acquiesced to the Arabs and denied entry to thousand of Jews fleeing the Nazi death machine.

It's pretty clear that some of the "Palestinians" are victims of their own masters. But Gaza is a breeding ground for hate. How can anyone justify a 7 year old girl stating that she hates Jews and wants to kill them?

If such a thing was said about blacks you'd condemn that, right?

If such a thing was said about Muslims you'd condemn that, right?

There was no love for Saddam in Israel. Paying tribute to the families of suicide bombers was vile and in fact against Islamic law. But he was also neutered, and his power confined.

What the Israelis realized was that Iran was stronger, and more fanatical. There was no Iraqi analog to Hezbollah, while deposing Saddam and his Baath Party would unleash the Shiites who would naturally ally with Iran.

Say what you like but the Israelis aren't stupid.

I've watched this for 40 years. There have been times I felt sympathy for the "Palestinians" and even criticized Israel, but at this point the only rational position is to present an ultimatum.

Live in peace, leave, or die.

Hey Johnson, give us the reader's digest version, ok?

Nobody wants to real a novel on this blog.

Hey Johnson, give us the reader's digest version, ok?

I second the motion, bro.

Nobody wants to real a novel on this blog.

Oh Nelly, just a another vain attempt to educate the ignorant.

Besides if everyone wrote in sound bytes then we'd all end up sounding like Zatoichi.

Besides if everyone wrote in sound bytes then we'd all end up sounding like Zatoichi.

You'd also have to have about 4 pictures on photobucket that you keep posting links to.

"The Arabs, who remained in Israel were never divested of their property rights. They continued to hold their property after Israel was established under international law."


I'd enjoy an intelligent conversation on the subject. You don't seem to offer one.

I'd enjoy an intelligent conversation on the subject...BetelG

No doubt there were some people who were forced from their land and that's one criticism that I've levied against Israel, but generally speaking Johnson's statement is true.

Perhaps a non-factual basis for discussion would suit your "intelligence" better.

Israel seized land in a war. They still have it.

The War? Be more specific. Which war and who started that?

If they gave it back would there be peace?

we'd all end up sounding like Zatoichi.

You could use the help, zark.

The "war of choice" (Google it, and take your pick).

Live in peace, leave, or die.

Posted by OzarkAggie at 2008-03-03 01:39 AM | Reply | Flag:

You are so much smarter than this, ozark. I've watched this situation for a long time too. Force, cease fires, and giving back sections of land have been tried.

At this point both sides are firmly entrenched and any INCH given up will get turned into a mile by the radicals on both sides. You can argue endlessly on which side is more evil...but the lesser of two evils is still evil.

Frankly, I say the US should stop giving money or aid to either side. A step further: No more money or aid to any country that provides support for Israel or the Palestinians. No matter what solution we try and present the EXTREMISTS in the area go nuts and drive the moderates into hiding.

We've got our own problems to solve. We certainly don't have money to toss around(10T debt) and we also have our own two evils to deal with.(republicans and democrats)

So let's see how the ME reacts to us getting the hell out of it and taking our money with us. Why not? Might be the one thing we haven't tried yet.

No. You wanted an intelligent conversation BetelG. You said they seized land. If you want to use that as a basis for discussion then at least answer the question. If they gave it back would there be peace?

I'm assuming that you mean to withdraw to Israel's original boundaries. Correct?

If they gave it back would there be peace?

Based on what occurred after Gaza, I'd have to say "no". Be nice if both parties involved weren't allowed to constantly ignore UN resolutions for the last 50 years. Also be nice if the countries that make up the UN would put their profits aside and enforce said resolutions with teeth instead of barking.

"I'm assuming that you mean to withdraw to Israel's original boundaries. Correct?"

Yep

Sorry: Yes.

Like Alex points out, there's no international will to enforce the peace, so what guarantee would Israel have that such a deal would result in peace?

Do you really think the Muslims would accept a Jewish nation?

If so, then why don't they sit down and say, We recognize your right to exist...formally...diplomatica lly?

Why don't you just wipe them out now, while you have a serious edge?

See that's the impasse. The Muslims refuse to acknowledge Israel as a nation. They tried to nip it in the bud. They call for the destruction of Israel, even after trying over and over again to accomplish that end.

So how can you make any concession to an enemy like that?

Good question Betel. Probably a fair percentage Israelis oppose that on moral grounds. And I think everyone else is worried that it will start WWIII.

After invading Iraq I'm not sure why that would bother us.

Obviously you can't. Your logic leads you to their destruction. They obviously can't be reasoned with, given the facts you have presented.

It's sad to see someone so entrenched in apocalyptic dogma, isn't it?

Remember the war between Iraq and Iran?

The Ayatollah Khomeini read about a guy who blew himself up in Lebanon. So he sends recruiters to all the villages to enlist kids young enough to be duped into walking into minefields and charging held positions.

The Iraqis thought they were nuts.

Then they thought they'd go nuts because they were killing unarmed children.

I truly feel sorry for these people. I've known some Muslims who were decent. I liked them. But now we have nations controlled by some really whacked out people, and a network that will not give up as long as they live.

**** You just can't admit that the jews are occupying what should be Muslim land.
Posted by messiah *****

..........you must be a staunch supporter of Serbia's claim to Bosnia........

Frankly, I say the US should stop giving money or aid to either side.

A step further: No more money or aid to any country that provides support for Israel or the Palestinians.

So let's see how the ME reacts to us getting the hell out of it and taking our money with us. Why not? Might be the one thing we haven't tried yet.
Posted by Alexandrite

>>>>>>>>>
ALEXANDRITE
beautifully stated, and the solution to one of the cancers killing the USA.

The suggestion that the Israelis could placate the Palestinians by doing anything short of dying, or at least leaving, is just not true.

Here is an excerpt from an article that desribes the Palestinian mindset:

I wonder regarding the basis for Messiah's conjecture that Israel is deliberately targeting babies. Have you ever been in combat, Messiah? You try to target hostiles, and not be diverted from doing so. That speculation is absurd.

I suspect that "Messiah" just trying to demonize the Israelis for trying to defend their people against those dedicated to their destruction, and is making it us. There is nothing to substantiate his claim. What does that make him?

As to "the Reader's Digest version," that is well-put and well-taken. I recognize that at best my writing style is prolix and convoluted, and also tendentious.

When there is a consensus as to what facts and issues are, then the basis for conclusions are to a large degree implicit. But there seems to be disagreement regarding basis facts, so to obtain some clarity, I restate them from my perspective.

I wonder how the current outlook developed. The Islamics and the Saudis particularly have been patiently for generations purchasing interests in media outlets in Europe, and also coopting individual journalists and academics

The academic community has largely accepted a world view based on faulty information, and has acted in disseminating that world view as accurate. Because of the transgenerational nature of "the lore," the faulty revisionist history has been accepted by many as true, "everybody knows it."

Because of these discrepancies unless there is some delineation of different facts, the dialogue degenerates into "You're bad," and inferentially, I'm different and "I'm good," and people supporting varying positions wonder how anyone can be so stupid or cruel. So, the historical facts and current positions attributable to each side need to be addressed, as does the dynamic of the relationship.

My view is that factually the Arabs have no historical claim to the region which was under control of the Ottoman Turks, that various "states" were established throughout the Middle East including Iraq, for example, and Jordan and Israel. The Arabs were not dispossessed of an historical homeland as the "Palestinians" were Jews.

The Arabs trying to dispossess the Jews from the region are acting consonant with their religious imperatives to subjugate all peoples of the world to Islam and cause them to live under sharia. The Muslims are on a worldwide jihad, antagonistic and killing many peoples in the name of Islam, among them Burmese, Thais, Filipinos, Indians, in fulfilling their mission. They contrive disputes everywhere. Israel is just more in the public eye.

But there I go again, so I'll curtail it here.

****** I recognize that at best my writing style is prolix and convoluted, and also tendentious.
Johnson ******

........the word "wind-bag" comes to mind.........

........you and GZlives never miss putting a page where a line would do.......

Sound familiar? Oh, it's Somalia and the missiles are American.

Story Highlights

NEW: District commissioner: 3 women, 3 children killed; 20 people wounded

U.S. official says military still gathering information about casualties

Strike aimed at "known terrorist target," U.S. military official says
Resident tells AP: "Neighbor's house completely obliterated"


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The United States attacked a "known terrorist target" with precision missiles in southern Somalia on Monday, a U.S. military official said.

The strike near Dhoobley, which is close to the Kenyan border, was aimed at a "facility where there were known terrorists" affiliated with East African al Qaeda operations, according to the official.

The strike destroyed two houses -- killing three women and three children, and wounding another 20 people -- Dhoobley's District Commissioner Ali Nur Ali Dherre told CNN. Dherre said the remains of the missiles were marked "US K."

The U.S. military official said the United States is still collecting post-strike information and is not yet able to confirm any casualties.

He described Monday's strike as "very deliberate" and said forces tried to use caution to avoid hitting civilians.

Villagers have fled in fear of another strike, Dherre said.

"We woke up with a loud and big bang and when we came out we found our neighbor's house completely obliterated as if no house existed here," Fatuma Abdullahi, a resident of the town, told The Associated Press. "We are taking shelter under trees. Three planes were flying over our heads."

******************************
******************************
********

This is the nature of the enemy and the war, and the engagements. The alternative is to allow the enemy havens from which to initiate his depredations.

The reason we have seen this conflict for over a half century and it will continue for at least another 50 years is that the pussies in Europe and the UN will not let the two sides fight until one has a decive victory. The winner will demand unconditional surrender and dictate final terms.

The U.S. victory over Japan would be a good example of a solution. 1,500,000 Japanese soldiers killed, 55 cities bombed, two with atomic bombs, uncondtional surrender, occupation, new constitution, new flag, banning of their old religion.

No other country with a professional army would pull this kind of cowardly bullshit but Israel gets a pass because their adversary is considered sub-human by most of the world.

Before the internet and live cable news, the IDF would go in and grab a some civilians (or red cross workers) and using them as human shields, actually go in and arrest or kill the bad guys. Very few children or non-combatants were getting killed then. They got bad press for bulldozing the houses, but at least back then they let the occupants escape with their lives before the bulldozers flattened them. Now with bombs and artillery shells, no such escape is possible. When is the last time Israel took a prisoner?


Posted by axe at 2008-03-01 11:58 PM | Reply |

LOL pick a side of the fence will ya? You hated them for going into the area, you hate them for not going in.

Just what is the posistion they should be taking? Do as Abbas says and do nothing when rockets kill israelis?

Risk having 5 or 6 special forces soldiers be dragged and burned thru the streets?

Give them 150 billion over the next 10 years and hope peace ensues as opposed to blackmarket A-10's strafing israel ?!?!