The last part of the story is what I found most interesting...

Republican Sen. John Warner questioned Obama's recounting, calling it "a disturbing framework of factual allegations."

Warner, who supports Sen. John McCain, told Obama in a letter that the incident likely happened on his watch as chairman of the Senate Armed Services. He said he's asked the Defense Department for information and will raise the issue next week in hearings with defense officials.

He asked Obama for "the essential facts," including when and where the events happened and which units were involved.

There's going to be hearings about this... Obama better hope he was completely factual and didn't over exaggerate the claims... that probably wouldn't help him.

Seems Barack was not as far off on the facts as some wanted to believe. To me the good news is that Barck is being fact checked. All candidates are put under this scrutiny, Barack should be no exception.

It's very banana republic for the military to engage in presidential politics. Obama's claim appears to be legit, and the Pentagon flack had no reason to believe it wasn't true. Does anyone think for a minute that he'd question a statement McCain made in a debate?

It's very banana republic for the military to engage in presidential politics.

Its a very serious claim that our troops have to steal weapons from the Taliban in order to arm themselves. If the Pentagon doesn't think its true, then why shouldn't they look into it?

When they talk to the soldier and when there are hearings next week the truth of the matter will come out... Like I said though, if it turns out Obama enhanced some of the story for politics, that's going to look really bad.

By all means the Pentagon should look into it. But expressing doubt in Obama's claim, before the Pentagon has spent a minute investigating it, is pure politics.

First McCain would probably not have made a statement like that, it does not appeal to his base. But in any case all the candidates should be checked.

It is interesting to see how Obama deals with things like this. When he is called into question on facts, etc. he seems to fall into "We need to move away from this old-style gotcha politics".

On one level I would agree with him. But I do not see that happening. Look at how McCain is being treated right now. Or look at the SC debate when Obama and Clinton got into it over the Regan ideas thing. What a waist of time.

Reasonable people will be able to make a distinction, but for people on the extremes (left and right) that does not seem possible.

This should be interesting.

It's George Bush's Pentagon and Obama's a Democrat.

I wonder if the Pentagon will supply this Captain with a pair of seal-skin muckluks when he gets re-assigned to a one man outpost in Alaska.

But expressing doubt in Obama's claim, before the Pentagon has spent a minute investigating it, is pure politics.

Posted by rcade


Ah... I see what you're saying... yeah, it probably would have been better just to say they were going to investigate the claim.

It does sound pretty unbelievable that they had to steal weapons in order to be armed.

It doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

The military in Iraq had to raid junk yards for the armor they needed.

The Taliban guns I can understand. But Toyota pickups and sandbags? Geesh!

I guess since the officer involved verified the story to ABC News it takes a little of the edge off of your skepticism, right Rob?

But Toyota pickups and sandbags?

Armies have always had to improvise. In France the Germans were burrowed into the hedgerows, and to break their line the engineers welded plow blades to tanks and that's how they broke through.

The Soviets don't get enough respect for their military equipment as a whole. We laughed at their air force but they could land troops and supplies on a rutted dirt road. They have always been a field army.

There are better weapons than the Ak's, but given the choice I won't be carrying an M-16 in Afghanistan. I'd rather have my Keltec Subbie - 40 cal. and 1 hung round (naturally it was Remington) out of 600 on the range.

Just one more indictment of the "Army You've Got" nonsense from the guys who implemented Bush's mandate to downsize the force after Desert Storm. Clinton, always the opportunist, probably took some satisfaction in carrying it through until they had purged not only the slack but started eating into the core.

Captain Walt is over there now and he's a mech guy so you know the big gear is up and running. That's some satisfaction, though it would be cheaper if we drafted his ass, made him a major and sent him back. LOL

1. Short On Training Ammo, I Stated This Last Year "True"

2. HUMVEE Shortage With Armor, "True"

3. Using Captured Training Weapons, Has Happened Due To Shortage Of Parts And Ammo, "True"

4. Deployment Rotation, Due To Manning Shortage,As I Stated More Chicken hawks Than Troops, True

Case Closed !!

-Sarge

Yeah, the rethugs desperately want to smear Obama with the same swift-boat crap they put on Kerry, but this time we're going to kick them square in the nutsack.

I fthe officer came out and identified himself this sory would have a little more substance.

C'mon oompah. Nobody is going to buy the "MAX CUP" bullshit. In any case, they're back ordered and we're going to keep them that way.

I've been to Afghanistan and Obama's comments, if true , is insane. For Obama to believe it enough to claim it as factual in a debate is telling me his judgment is suspect and lacking in common sense

JOMAMA

It remains to be seen but if Obama and Captain Whistleblower aren't telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, Obama has swiftboated himself. I said if.

It's Obama's story . . . I don't see a GOP fingerprint on this unless you think Captain Whistleblower is a plant.

I don't think that's the case but just for the sake of argument, Obama would be pretty stupid to run with a story he hadn't vetted.

The officer needs to remain anonymous. He is still subject to the UCMJ and probably does not have Whistle Blower Protection.

Rob - it is so good of you to realize that this is a very serious claim.

Because it is.

It is what we have been saying all along. The Republicans talk a big game but when it comes to actually supporting the troops on the ground they turn a blind eye.

CNN as also spoekn to the Captain and it is as Sarge says:

1. Short On Training Ammo, I Stated This Last Year "True"

2. HUMVEE Shortage With Armor, "True"

3. Using Captured Training Weapons, Has Happened Due To Shortage Of Parts And Ammo, "True"

4. Deployment Rotation, Due To Manning Shortage,As I Stated More Chicken hawks Than Troops, True

ok the last one is a highly Opinionated but the Manpower Shortage is true... and is due to Iraq.


If anything Obama has left out the details but did a good job of summarizing the situation. I love it when I hear that The Pentagon on Friday tried to cast doubt

The Pentagon is a building ... all it casts is a shadow. Who at the Pentagon is casting doubt and as Rcade suggests why are they getting involved in Presidential Politics?

What is really going on here?


Looks like we are about to make a Captain very famous... or infamous.

Who at the Pentagon is casting doubt and as Rcade suggests why are they getting involved in Presidential Politics?

Probably because if it is true and Obama didn't overexaggerate (I can tell a lot of you are very worried he did... because that would be really bad) then the people in the pentagon and all throughout the military would look really bad. So they're going to investigate it... apparently so is congress in the coming week... if Obama isn't being 100% truthful, that might hurt going into the 4th

"why are they getting involved in Presidential Politics?

Because Captain Whistleblower, an active duty officer, just gave the Secretary of Defense a big, fat black eye.

They don't look kindly on that sort of thing.

It's not Obama they'll be after, I assure you.

Not to mention, of course, that Congress never misses an opportunity to puff themselves up.

Damn, that Obama is one smart guy. He has you righties chasing your tails like puppies and he hasn't even started on McCain yet. Can't wait

TIGER:

Maybe not so smart if the Pentagon wanted to make a case for treason.

If so, who committed treason?

The Captain for spilling the beans to Obama?

Or Obama for spilling the beans to the enemy on world wide television?

Obama is a rookie, McCain will have him for lunch.

Can someone please tell me how his health care plan will work? Then tell me how someone who already has private health care will benefit.

Treason??

Equipment insufficiencies and shortages are not news. This admin has been shortchanging our soldiers all along. From training to veteran services. Whose fucking side are you on? You should care and you should be outraged.

The story has been coroborated numerous time.

Are you an American conservative or just a conservative?

TIGER

I do care and I am outraged.

But the Pentagon doesn't seem to pay any attention to me, which I don't understand.

The point I was making is that even though Gates inherited a bag of smoke and mirrors from Rumsfeld, he's been there long enough to know what's going on. The fact (if it is a fact) that these condition still exist is an embarrassment to people who would prefer that it not be confirmed on national television.

The brass doesn't like being embarrassed by a junior officer. My point is, there are asses to be covered here.

Actually anyone in the military can petition Congress.

As for vulnerability it would seem, all told, that the Pentagon, DOD, and the Administration face a bigger threat because this will simply resurrect the other stories of hillbilly armor and M-16s jamming during a firefight, and the shortcomings of the contractors to provide adequate services - not to mention the waste, fraud and abuse that's gone on for the last 6 years.

McCain is on board with all of this. He's going to get whipped like a redheaded stepchild.

By the general election the Democrats will have hitched a trailer full of baggage to his bus. He's not going to make it up the hill.

My point is, there are asses to be covered here.

...with a paddle.

OZ

Agreed!

These little dust ups have a tendacy to escalate.

This story reminds me of a sign I used to have in my office.

"Never send the boss a memo he doesn't want to receive."

What would anybody expect John Warner to say . . .

"Yeah, I heard about it but I've been really, really busy."

Hardly.

All our money is going into hi-tech shit. We got to have expensive smart weapons so we don't have any colateral damage. That is the decree of the libs. no colateral damage.

Ink pens wouldn't write upside down in space so the US spent millions developing a pen that would. The Russians used pencils. That is the mentality of people in the US.

Actually, the pencil thing is a myth. You don't want graphite dust floating around weightless in a spaceship full of electric equipment. The Russians did use wax markers/grease pencils, but as you can imagine, they weren't very good for extended notekeeping and the Russians eventually ended up using pens like ours.


ALL politicians look to high-tech ways to get them out of political problems. If by "collateral damage", you mean killing civilian non-combatants, well, yes, Democrats are against that if it can be avoided. If you want to say Republicans don't care, go ahead.

If by "collateral damage", you mean killing civilian non-combatants, well, yes, Democrats are against that if it can be avoided.

Much like the carpet bombing of Germny and Japan in WWII??

Republicans don't care

Oh they care, but not about this country.

By all means the Pentagon should look into it. But expressing doubt in Obama's claim, before the Pentagon has spent a minute investigating it, is pure politics.

This is dead on.

Obama, before he even thought about using such information would damn sure make sure the information is factual and dead on before even throwing it out there for investigation.

The pentagon is just trying to find a way to weasel out of such a claim. I feel for the sargent, he may be out of a job.

Ink pens wouldn't write upside down in space so the US spent millions developing a pen that would. The Russians used pencils. That is the mentality of people in the US.

Posted by Sniper

Sure, Edison could've used a candle too, what's your point? Part of being America is that we don't settle.