the Government is always right and just and..... hell they can do what they want Dammit!

YEAH!

Cue The "keep government out of our Lives" Bush Cult Sycophants to Trot out and Lecture all of us on the advantages of Having the "Government" more involved and in control of our "lives"!

For your Safety of Course!

Time to move on... As I tell my kids, concentrate on the things you can change... Let the rest go.

ANYTHING in the name of security...

Someone should mail the SC a copy of the Constitution....actually millions of us should mail the SC copies of the Constitution.
Add a note to it....."Read it."

NWO is still alive & quite well in the Warren Court...er, I mean the Supreme Court:>)

BushCo put their wiretapping programs into action BEFORE 9-11. They want retroactive immunity for themselves as much as the carriers. Most importantly they don't want anybody to see what they did. You know, transparent Democracy and all that shit.

They sure are supreme. F_ckwads.

"Someone should mail the SC a copy of the Constitution....actually millions of us should mail the SC copies of the Constitution.
Add a note to it....."Read it.""

but read it the way i want you to. Was that what you meant to say?

"but read it the way i want you to. Was that what you meant to say?"

So, you think that ANY honest reading of it would result in a conclusion that it authorizes the government to wire tap individuals without any warrant????
Yes or no.

The Republicans can ruin Clintons last part of his Presidency over a freakin blowjob and The Democrats can't make one iota stick of all the serious shit Georgie has done?

What is wrong with this picture? The teflon idiot reigns supreme!

Nobody cares what movies you rent. Nobody cares what books you check out from the library. And nobody cares about your phone sex habit.

Nobody cares about you. You are not important.

get over yourself.

besides, phone companies for years have cooperated with law enforcement. Don't you ever watch Law & Order?

besides, phone companies for years have cooperated with law enforcement. Don't you ever watch Law & Order?
Posted by vernon at 2008-02-19 04:28 PM
YEAH!

All that up to the part where a "Judge" reviews "Evidence" and issued a "Warrant" First!
Perhaps you need to get your legal knowledge somewhere other than a Fictional TV show vern!


But you know what! There is nothing my underwear drawer ---- but I still don't want people snooping around in it!

The only thing that my underwear drawer contains other than underwear is something called "Freedom" (from government oppression) and "Liberty" (in all its incantations)!

But you keep up the "small government" fight vern! You do more to expose the Bush Cult for what it truly is than anyone else I can think of!

Three cheers for the land of scared shitless and the home of the candyass.

Someone should mail the SC a copy of the Constitution....actually millions of us should mail the SC copies of the Constitution.
Add a note to it....."Read it."

Posted by danni

but read it the way i want you to. Was that what you meant to say?

Posted by salamandagator

So, you think that ANY honest reading of it would result in a conclusion that it authorizes the government to wire tap individuals without any warrant????
Yes or no.

Posted by danni

I partially agree with both of you.

The Supreme Court can be wrong. But, the Supreme Court decides what is Constitutional and what is not, what is legal and what is not.

So, when you don't agree, you elect people who will either change the law or change the Constitution.

Sounds like the Prolifers movement. I wonder why people hate the Right when the vote for people believing the way they do? Is it because the only way to over turn a bad SCOTUS decision is to change the Law/Constitution?

The proper balance to the Executive is to take it to the Legislative and Judicial branches. That is the balances of power.

Well, the Judicial Branch lost. Why not take it up with the Legislative?

That's right. Congress is just as inept?

So, come November, when you look at the levers, you'll decide that 8 years of have an R is enough. Republicans thought the same thing 8 years before.

But, with the change of the White House, everyone misses the point. Congress needs to be voted OUT.
Total overhaul.

The President doesn't write the Bills signed into law. The President can't have wars without money. Judges are reviewed by Congress. The President isn't the problem.

Roberts and Alito rule!!!

Thanks John Kerry!

Rob then escort Yourself out of My Country because You are not worthy to call Yourself an American. If You support warrqantless wiretaps within the United States upon US Persons then You aren't an AMerican PERIOD.

Larry Mohr

the government says the identities of people whose communications have been intercepted is secret, but only people who know they have been wiretapped can sue because their line was tapped,

Now this violates prudent common sense, but just as Cuba changes toward a more democratic government the U.S. is changing towards a more Communistic government.

And it is particularly amasing that the elected representatives like this.

Pelosi - Does nothing.

Democratic majority - Does nothing.

Government for the people?

"then escort Yourself out of My Country"
--LARRYMOHR

It doesn't make it anymore YOUR country just because you physically take up a larger portion of land than the average American.

It doesn't make it anymore YOUR country just because you physically take up a larger portion of land than the average American.

Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2008-02-19 05:39 PM | Reply

When You are willing to sacrifice esential Liberties for security then You are not worth a lick and unworthy to call Yourself an AMerican. America stands for Freedom PERIOD.

Larry Mohr

As usual the dr left is in an uproar. The only accept the SC rulings when they think it fits their myopic view of the world.

Larry you are full of crap. I am proud to allow wire tapping to the full extent allowed under law. Funny how you feel the law is wrong....

It's called protecting our right to the pursuit of happiness.

Rob then escort Yourself out of My Country because You are not worthy to call Yourself an American.

Its my country you fat douche... get used to it too... the conservatives on the court are all pretty young...

Larry you are full of crap. I am proud to allow wire tapping to the full extent allowed under law. Funny how you feel the law is wrong....

It's called protecting our right to the pursuit of happiness.

Posted by DavetheWave at 2008-02-19 05:47 PM | Reply

If the Government wiretaps without a warrant upon a us person then they are violating the COnstitution period. If You support this action then tell Me this How can You state You are an American when it goes against everything this Country stands upon??

Larry Mohr

It's just a damn piece of paper.

Who said that?

If the Constitution is so important, why do you reject the Constitution?

The Supreme Court makes a decision and you are mad that they have let the lower court decision stand. Yet, the Constitution gives them the authority to decide.

So, the paper is worthless and worthwhile. Depends on the way the wind is blowing-against you or not.

Change the Congress.

If the Government wiretaps without a warrant upon a us person then they are violating the COnstitution period.

yeah... except the supreme court says you are wrong and they know more about the constitution then you do.

If there's a thread about cake, I'll yield to you.

It's just a damn piece of paper.

Who said that?

Nobody... its a bullshit story by Capitol Hill Blue.

never verified by any other news source, never backed up by any NAMED sources...

Nobody said it.

If the Government wiretaps without a warrant upon a us person then they are violating the COnstitution period. If You support this action then tell Me this How can You state You are an American when it goes against everything this Country stands upon??

Larry Mohr
* * * *

If.
Who has been wiretapped illegally? Can you prove they're US persons? Can you prove the government didn't have a warrant, in the event they WERE US persons? No? Well, neither can they.
Thanks for playing.

"yeah... except the supreme court says you are wrong and they know more about the constitution then you do.

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2008-02-19 05:58 PM"

IN which case was that, Rob?

These are the same asswipes that just sed that just inferred that torture may be Constitutional?

Another jewel in Bush's legacy crown.

Mission creep in Iraq and meanwhile back at home creeping fascism continues to advance and blight the land.

America needs change like now.

08ama '08.

Be Well.

Who has been wiretapped illegally? Can you prove they're US persons? Can you prove the government didn't have a warrant, in the event they WERE US persons? No? Well, neither can they.
Thanks for playing.

Posted by rightisright at 2008-02-19 06:01 PM | Reply

You would have a point if Dubya Hisself would not have blabbered it like the idiot that He is. So RIR Nexxxxxxxxxxxxt

Larry Mohr

Spud to the Supremes...

STOP in the name of the Constitution

Before you break my heart.

Think it o-o-over!

Be Well.

/Spud luffs hisself some Motown, yes he do!
//Also Liberty, very big on the whole freedom thing.

You would have a point if Dubya Hisself would not have blabbered it like the idiot that He is. So RIR Nexxxxxxxxxxxxt

Larry Mohr
* * * *

Really? George Bush admitted to wiretapping Americans without a warrant?

I don't believe that, but Bush isn't here. You are. What evidence do you have that the US government is monitoring US citizens without a court warrant?

is there a full vote by all Justices for the decision whether or not to hear an appeal?

anyone know the split, if there was a vote?

RightIs - they've admitted as much.

Yeah... Zap... only a story by CHB... a left wing news site not taken seriously by any MSM source...

and most importantly...

I've talked to three people present for the meeting that day and they all confirm that the President of the United States called the Constitution "a goddamned piece of paper."


Well we'll just take your word Mr. Thompson... oh and don't bother naming them... that would only make the story verifiable... its not necessary because the douchebags who read your drivel will believe anything bad said about Bush anyways.

even Bush haters know that story is B.S.

The guy loves and respects the USA and the Constitution. He may not have the same philosphies and policies that capitolhillblue would like to see, but he is just not a boorish idiot. The connection is not there, try to make it all you want. sorry. he's sharp. that why you libs hate him. even if he thought it as just a GDPoP, he wouldn't act out like that.

disagree with his policies, but this is just so over the top B.S.

noone is byuing it.

its not necessary because the douchebags who read your drivel will believe anything bad said about Bush anyways.


I see your point Rob.

After all we are talking about a guy who respects all laws. Not a scumbag who would break all records on signing statements or outright defy FISA.

Clearly we have a man who respects the Constitution, as long as it has a signing statement.

"The report was posted on Dec. 5, 2005. According to author, Doug Thompson, unnamed Republican leaders complained to Bush during a White House meeting about "onerous" portions of the USA Patriot Act, prompting the following:

Capitol Hill Blue: "I don't give a goddamn," Bush retorted. "I'm the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way."

"Mr. President," one aide in the meeting said. "There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution."

"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face," Bush screamed back. "It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"

The evidence

There's no record of Bush ever using these words in public and no other news organization has reported him using them privately. Thompson based his report on three sources whom he didn't name. He gave the date of the quote as "last month," which would put it sometime in November 2005.

Thompson told us he once removed the story from his Web site when others raised doubts and no other news organization came up with a similar story. But he said he later reinstated it and currently believes it to be true. "I wrote the story and I stand by it," Thompson said in a telephone interview.

Thompson told us he based the story on e-mail messages from three persons he knows, all of whom claim to have been present at a White House meeting and to have heard Bush make the statement. He said he finds their account credible: "Sometimes I just have to go with my gut, and my gut tells me he did say this." "

After all we are talking about a guy who respects all laws. Not a scumbag who would break all records on signing statements or outright defy FISA.
* * *

Please provide a link with evidence that he "outright defies FISA". This time, from a reputable source.

Wow...what story. I wanna play too!

I have talked to TEN people that say that the Hildebeast sold classified military secrets she had been secretly given by Bill to the Red Chinese and had the money deposited in those off shore accounts he is talking about. FIVE of those ten confirm that Hillary knew about the plans to attack the World Trade Center but took secret donations for her senate campaign in order to "convince" Bill to order the FBI to leave these nice young Saudis alone. The other FIVE confirmed that on numerous occasions Hildebeast has expressed her gratitude to the Secret Service for covering up her involvement in the murder of Vince Foster.

Now all I need is a Website....

After all we are talking about a guy who respects all laws.

What laws has he been convicted of breaking?

Stop... stop!!! I know you're about to hit publish on your Capitol Hill Douche story about how Thompson talked to the former girlfriend of pelosi's sisters college room mate who says Bush urinated in public, but that's not what we're looking for... so stop... don't click it.

is there a full vote by all Justices for the decision whether or not to hear an appeal?

anyone know the split, if there was a vote?

Posted by Fredo_C at


I believe that Four have to want to consider the case.

I hate to part company with the righties here...but the administration has made it clear that they intend to spy on American Citizens that "are talking to the terrorists." Further, the designation of citizen is irrelevant thanks to the 14th amendment which totally eliminates any intrinsic value of citizenship by spreading the protections of the Constitution to ANY PERSON.

Personally, I understand that in a time of war, the power of government grows and the liberty we enjoy shrinks in the name of security. (There are MANY examples of this.) But I have to point out that we must forever guard against letting the camel get his nose under the tent. The Righties here think it is OK for someone to listen in...think about the the Royal Hildebeast after her coronation listening in to your calls on the basis you are a member of the "Right wing conspiracy". Think about her being able to use a bullshit environmental crisis to use the power of government to regulate the size of your house, they kind of car you drive, how far you live from work, or the internal temperature of your house. Think of her using a fictitious health care crisis to justify taking away YOUR freedom to choose your doctor and your right to enter into a private agreement with your doctor to provide service in exchange for payment.

If you can't stomach that in the name of a crisis...how do you justify the government listening in to your phone calls?

Someone should mail the SC a copy of the Constitution....actually millions of us should mail the SC copies of the Constitution.
Add a note to it....."Read it."

Posted by danni at 2008-02-19 03:33 PM


I'm not calling out danni, but a lot of people are attacking this on substantive grounds (SCOTUS loves repubs, etc.).

It looks to me like a question of "standing."
Without harm, there is no standing. The ACLU cannot show harm, and thus they don't have standing. No standing, no case.

The fact that the Executive has locked down the info as "secret" isn't the Court's problem, and there are certainly grounds for separation of powers to prevail (more so than Nixon).

I agree with Petrous (and not just cuz of the name):

Why not take it up with the Legislative?

Posted by Petrous at 2008-02-19 05:03 PM

The most recent Newsweek contains a report that Rice has to warn foreign diplomats, "Don't upset him" before meeting the Chief.) The man told Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas in 2003 that "God told me to smite [Saddam Hussein]. And I smote him." Why should a man who conducts such conversations care about a document which makes no reference to God?

"Personally, I understand that in a time of war, the power of government grows and the liberty we enjoy shrinks in the name of security. (There are MANY examples of this.) But I have to point out that we must forever guard against letting the camel get his nose under the tent.

Posted by A_Citizen at 2008-02-19 06:49 PM"

Of course you are right about this, A Cit, but you oughtta save your typing fingers, because you are wasting bandwidth. The righties around here, including the so-called small-gov't "conservatives," are so afraid that a brown guy is about to blow up their city, that they have taken to hiding in their closets, smelling their fingers, and pretty much giving the gov't free reign to do anything the fuck it wants, so long as it promises that it is doing it in the name of national security. Glad to see there is at least one exa,mple of a rightwinger around here who is not willing to trade his liberty for a vague promise of security. Kudos to you.

Petro81 - there is a guy in Oregon who sued about this, and his case was tossed on "nat'l security" grounds. He had standing, but he never got a hearing on the merits. If you are really interested, and ask nicely, I'll dig up his case for you.

And America dies a little more.......this shit is so sad. When do we revolt? When we start getting "re-located" maybe?

I understand that in a time of war

And who declares that time to be over??

Who declares that time of war?

I am having difficulty understanding this. Any kind of war?

If you are really interested, and ask nicely, I'll dig up his case for you.

Posted by mOntecOre at 2008-02-19 07:26 PM

Ha! I always ask nicely. My mama taught me well.

I would be interested in that case name, but don't go through too much trouble if you don't have it handy. I have access to Westlaw, so I can check it out.

And my statement above was meant in no way to indicate I support the illegal wire tapping. Personally, it freaks me out...

Hey people get with it , The Dems and Reps are just doing politicl theater for the masses. In the back rooms and hallways THEY ARE WORKING TOGETHER TO DESTROY AMERICA.

"Personally, I understand that in a time of war, the power of government grows and the liberty we enjoy shrinks in the name of security. (There are MANY examples of this.) But I have to point out that we must forever guard against letting the camel get his nose under the tent."

Thank you for your eloquent comment- reply INCLUDING, of course, this stroke of metaphorical genious - CAMEL's nose under the tent.....how appropriate!

and don't worry- if the Dems ever get to the executive office again, we'll find a way to legislate them away from this exective power.The Gov.t is a cylical thing. ebb and flow.....
rational heads and national security will always prevail

"..and don't worry- if the Dems ever get to the executive office again, we'll find a way to legislate them away from this exective power."

You gotta be kidding. Do you actually believe that ANY politician, once in office, will legislate for LESS power?

if the Dems ever get to the executive office again, we'll find a way to legislate them away from this exective power."

LOL!!!

This is humorous, so much so it makes one feel for believing in such ignorance.

Many of us here on DR were against wiretapping freedom because it just doesn't end there, it will grow and increase in lost liberties because it gives more and more secret power to those government officials who take the position for that very thing.........POWER.

Hey all you Rightwing "Conservatives", the infrastructure of tyranny that you are building right now will probably not be used by one of your guys. It will probably be used in full force by a proletariat revolutionary government. It's just a question of numbers, the proles have numbers and once they get riled up, and they will unless they are kept docile, they will run over the established powers. And the psyco revolutionary government they create will have all the tools they need already built.

Think beyond the now. Understand that our actions today have grave consequences in the future.

And for the love of whatever you hold sacred always ere on the side of Liberty.

phone companies for years have cooperated with law enforcement. Don't you ever watch Law & Order?

Posted by vernon at 2008-02-19 04:28 PM


Spoken like a good little bushbot.

THEY ARE WORKING TOGETHER TO DESTROY AMERICA.

Posted by GotTruth at 2008-02-19 07:31 PM


I don't know if their goal is to destroy America, but the pro corporate greed based agenda is providing that side effect.

Your guy is Obama. You are going down in November.
face it. Mcain sucks, too. But, Mcain will pull almost all center votes, and as long as the far right comes to their senses and ends up begrudgingly backing him, your guy Obama is toast.

Then we can spy and root out THE EVIL DOERS FROM OUR MIDSTS for 4 MOre years !!!!

'smatter? someone here have something to hide?

you are all eveeeeeelll doerzzzz!

No 726, they do wish the death and destruction of the Sovriegn and Free United State of America and will replace it with the (N)orth (A)merican
(U)nion. Just as the free countries of Europe must now conform it EU laws.

Hey Fredo, maybe you should read things before making baseless claims on what you WISH were true, rather than what actually is... BC the fact of the matter is, in the most recent Zogby poll, Obama gets the Independent vote over McCain for all ind. demographics except for those over 70...

Compare a begrudged backing from the Right for McC with a fervent and enthusiastic support from the base Left that Obama is guaranteed to receive, and I dont think it could be more clear than Obama will win. This is all assuming that the conservative right goes out to vote in November for McCain, bc if Hillary isnt the nom, i dont think they will really care. No one, not even the conservative right (which is really saying something) is stupid enough to think that the republican leadership has made our country. The only way repubs win the WH again is if Hilary is the dem nominee.

OK so you are quite obviously infatuated with Hussein as a candidate. WHY? God only knows.


You cannot sem to fathom that you are a member of the far left KOOLADE sect, and you are the only people who would concieve of voting for a nobody with no politcal saavy, except the ability to make nice speeches with stolen quotes that say nothing except, " Republican's have got to go!". Hussein will only carry the far left. The moderate-to-left and everybody to the right of it will vote for McCain.
He pleases more of the masses when it gets down to the two of them -plain and simple. And by the way, he makes some pretty good toaster french fries as well.

"OK so you are quite obviously infatuated with Hussein as a candidate."

Better than being infatuated with John "100 Year War" McCain.

McCain is actually no great shakes either.
But I mean, let's just face it, he is going to win by a wide margin. I mean the Presidency.

"McCain is actually no great shakes either.
But I mean, let's just face it, he is going to win by a wide margin. I mean the Presidency."

And the evidence for this is?

And the explanation for every current poll saying otherwise is?

FOOL - polls are a construction of the Liberal media.

Ass.

"polls are a construction of the Liberal media."

I know. And evidence is the tool of the devil. Liberals are really Nazi's, and if you sneeze and fart at the same time you'll die.