There goes Cheney's hunting in Illinois.

I cannot say that I am opposed to a law like this. But, how does one reconcile the fact that there is a Second Amendment?

Would it be acceptable that people with a history of mental illness should have their speach limited?

Or should people with a history of mental illness not be allowed to vote?

Where do you draw the line? What works for one person may not work for everyone.

Would it be acceptable that people with a history of mental illness should have their speach limited?

Posted by sawdust at 2008-02-19 08:51 AM | Reply | Flag

That would not be a good idea.....80% of the DR Left would never be able to speak again....then what would RCADE do?

Saw: There are already limits to free speech and nobody will ever get the Republicans to stop voting.

More importantly, what are the criteria for determining that someone is mentally ill? The could just "interpret" that law to include anyone that wants a gun...

Guess they will have to establish a state wide data base of the mentally ill, that should be interesting to set up, maintain and be legal.

Sawdust, I think you draw the line when considering things that are made to kill. I think anyone who wants to buy a gun should have to first complete a test that evaluates the mental capacity and psychology of the applicant. Then they should pass a skills test, to make sure they know how to use the damned thing. Then they are awarded or denied a license.

It should be tougher to get a gun license than it is to get a driver's license. And just like it's even tougher to get a motorcycle license, it should be even tougher to get a handgun license.

Those are my opinions.

It should be tougher to get a gun license than it is to get a driver's license. And just like it's even tougher to get a motorcycle license, it should be even tougher to get a handgun license.

Those are my opinions.

Posted by Scrumplet at 2008-02-19 09:10 AM

No Guns for Mentally Ill People

Now here is a Prime example of a slipper slope!
-NRA

"Illinois: No Guns for Mentally Ill People"

So what? Most people aren't found to be mentally ill until after they pull the trigger anyway.

Roy, I am aware that it is a right. Perhaps we should amend the constitution, in accordance with the times? Jefferson intended for this democracy to be dynamic and evolving. Something needs to be done to lessen the number of incidences, to help people to feel like the US is a safe place to raise their kids.
Simply standing for the old 2nd Amendment is doing more harm than good.

"I cannot say that I am opposed to a law like this. But, how does one reconcile the fact that there is a Second Amendment?|

Well just like after the constitution was writeen declaring all men equal there was slavery and only white male land owners could vote.

Well our Govenor and entier state house just lost their gun rights LOL. seriously IL( my home state) is so ass backwards on things its almost sad. I bet the first(and sadly last) thought through those folks at NIU minds was "SHIT!!! Wish I had a gun right now!!" Gun controll really saved those lives didnt it. The idea that Guns lead to violence is as ignorant as the idea that being gay means you have AIDS or All black peolpe are lazy drug dealers who are great at basketball. Lets not think with our hearts and emotions. Lets think with our brains. For the man who thinks with his heart has muzzled his brain.

to sawdust: They already let IL DCFS take away children from "mentaly Unfitt/Unsound" parents all the time here. after the state takes them we trow them into the DCFS systems a.k.a. the meat grinder.

To northguy: I think Librels and COnservitives are BOTH mentally retarded. Just look at their policies. Both want us to live in some kinda NAZI socialist state. disarmed, and totally dependent on an Imperial central GOV. Fucking insane. Do we not remeber what Hitler and the socialist did in germany or the Facist in Itali?

to Scrumpet: Getting my Motorcycle licence was 100% easier for me that my regular drivers license, Its all about practice man. Oh ya Knives are ment to kill. Hell they were invented to kill. I bet i could murder someone with dulled up butter knife if i really wanted them dead. Face reality people ANYTHING IS A WEAPON.

**** Driving a car or motorcycle is not a right guaranteed by the Constitution.

There is no such thing as a gun license, because you don't need a license for a right.

Posted by Roy_Batty ****

.......there were no cars or motorcycles at the time of the constitutions writing......

......." a well regulated militia ".....regulated means contolled or licensed......the founding fathers said they wanted gun control........

Do i have the right to defend myself when attacked with Leathal force? Our do I have to ask my attacker to stop while i call for help?

........but it goes deeper than the facts........

.......just the thought, that, some people actually believe there is any reason for the mentally ill to have access to guns, shows a that a deep sickness is a part of our society.........

I am only going to say this once so pay attention.

Amendment 2 of the United staes Constitution reeads as follows:

A well regulated Milita, being necessary to the securtiy of a free State, the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms, shal not be infringed.


ok did you notice there are NO PERIODS IN THERE. that is for a reason. it is one big state ment. not to be interpreted as they did not use any latin.

Jefferson and Franklin did not want a standing army caus ethey saw them as opressive to free people. Washington and Lock and a few others did want a standing Army or protection. They hit a COMPRIMISE. The army would stand but the peole would be armed incase the army became opressive. Socialsist and Facist Governments love a disarmed populus. They cant fight back.

They really should have taught you about our Constitution in High school guys.

There is no such thing as a gun license, because you don't need a license for a right.

Rubbish. We have the right to peaceful assembly (sorta). Guess what happens if you stage a public protest or parade without the proper permits. This proposal is even less infringing.

Personally, I think anyone who willfully places an accidental-suicide-machine (gun) in their home has a slight mental defect. The part of their brain controlling self preservation has been replaced by a macho-masochists reptilian gene that prevents them from reading and understanding statistics. But hey, it's your family's life in danger because of your gun, not mine, so have at it. But the state has a responsibility to at least try and determine if your masochistic tendencies could lead to more profound violence against other people as they often do.

..........you can't read............

........what does "well regulated" mean ?........

..........it means controlled............gun controlled.........

and if the 2nd amendment is only int the Context of the Militia then in the next half of the amendment the word People would not have been capitalized and would have been left as "people" to indicate the soldiers of the Militia. But it is not. It is capitalized meaning very clearly the PEOPLE. The wording of things in the constitution was very delibrate. If it was only for the Militia the word People would never have been in there. Just for cases as this. YOu know what I call a disarmed populus? SLAVES.

hey skizz post the whole amendment not just the part that supports you. That was one of the most dishonest things i've ever seen. Stop framing and just debate

The MILITA IS TO BE REGULATED NOT THE PEOPLE read the whole thing for once in your life man.

Its says a well regulted miltia. Not a well regulated peole

........truth is simple.........

.......you can talk about commas, periods and capitalization............but.
......

........."well regulated" will continue to mean CONTROLLED, no matter where you put your commas.....

.....sorry GOTTRUTH.......

......you will just have to change your monikor to GOTMISTAKEN.......

Ya regulated/controlled was in the Context of the Miltia man, not the context of the people indicated by the punctuation. And yes the way things are written is very important Sizz. You would know that if you had any education hight than high school.

i'll change my handle if you change your to MORON.

"Something needs to be done to lessen the number of incidences, to help people to feel like the US is a safe place to raise their kids."

That's the problem with knee jerk reactionary gun control laws. They only help make people FEEL safer without actually changing a damn thing.

Look at any legal document. The grammer and punctuation and capitalization are af PARAMOUNT importance, for it places ideads and princples in very certian ways. Your name in in all CAPS on you license for a reason. It shows you are a legal Individual. Like it does in Leagl papers.

"........what does "well regulated" mean ?........

..........it means controlled............gun controlled......"

Right on, Skiz.

I hope the majority agree with me that something needs to be done about guns.

Hell, we launched a whole "war" on "terr" and f*cked off our constitution as a response to 9-11, why can't we respond to all these shootings?

What can we do? Simply standing by a static Second is unsatisfactory.

........if you seriously think that mentally ill people should have the right to bear arms, then you are part of the social disease that costs 30 thousand lives a year in this country.........

........there are many reasons for our decline as a nation, but the hemmoraging of productive lives through atavistic mental blocks is just one of them..........

........a while back someone posted an article where a six year old found his father's handgun and killed his playmate........to which I posted......

........guns don't kill six year olds........six year olds kill six year olds..........and you are part of the disease that enables the slaughter...........

Spoons make peole fat.

Pencils fail test.

Cars crash themselves.

lets doo some math.

Toatal US population = 300 million
you death figue = 30,000

I think i can come to live with these kinda numbers
sad but very very very low considering the total

"Personally, I think anyone who willfully places an accidental-suicide-machine (gun) in their home has a slight mental defect."
--R8RH8R

That's just an emotional reaction you have to guns and gun owners because, like a child quivering in fear under his blanky hiding from the boogeyman, you're afraid of them.

Illinois: No Guns for Mentally Ill People

No guns for Republicnas? Well, how are Republicans supposed to defend themselves then.

No guns for Democrats? Well, how are Democrats supposed to deffend themselves then?

See who childish shit like this sounds. Grow up

the same old argument.... boring!! those that cant understand the 2nd never will your wasting your breath they expect uncle sam to handle all their problems keep them safe.

It was Demecrates that fucked us in to the ground. Bill Clinton and Dick Dailieys brother were the ones who built NAFTA along witht the biggest names in democrat politics. Not repuplicans. I hate ethem both D and Rs both are trying to kill this contry

Now that buisnesses are failng everywere the government wants to step in and give me my retirment and health care. I used to get that from FORD.

or Maytag, or chevy, or allied steel. Demacrats and Repubs are both in tandum killin America one piece at a time

They need the 2nd amendment destroyed befor they fully implent the NAU. Unarmed rioters are ealily rounded up while a armed rebellion is so much more difficult to deal with.

**** you death figue = 30,000

I think i can come to live with these kinda numbers Gottruth ****

........I guess you must be pro-life........

........so the next question is..........

........what kind of heat would Jesus pack ?.......

nope pro choice. pro death penalty too. you must be consistant. You cna tkill babies and not kill murderes.

Jesus would have staped a Isreali mad Desert Eagle duh!

you dont need a death penalty when you you can just kill yourself

Don't know about Jesus, but didn't Peter shoot off someone's ear with a 9mm?

.........have to hand it to you Gots.......

......you are consistent.......I like Jesus's choice of Uzis........would have never occured to me.....

...."Let those of you without sin, squeeze off the first burst at the hooker......"

"Jesus would have staped a Isreali mad Desert Eagle duh!"

Anyone who refers to a virtually useless gun like the "Desert Eagle" is obviously mentally ill or has an incredibly small penis. Maybe both

Toatal US population = 300 million
you death figue = 30,000

I think i can come to live with these kinda numbers
sad but very very very low considering the total

Posted by GotTruth at 2008-02-19 10:07 AM


So 30,000 lives a years is acceptable so you can have a gun? I guess the 3,000 lives lost on 911 mean absolutely nothing to you. After all,"these kinda numbers sad but very very very low considering the total"

you're afraid of them.

Sure I am. I only have one life. When this one is over there is nothing but a cold dark hole in the ground. Wasting life for the sake of owning a shiny man-toy is both scary and insane.

With over 30% of the population on hard-core psychotropic medication while guns are treated with no more respect than a monkey wrentch, yeah mentally defective gun owners scare me. I like living.

That's what you are looking for right? You want to intimidate people with your big baddass pistola. Show everyone how tough you are....

Do you think the fear that lead you to buy an accidental-suicide-machine is any better or worse than my fear of gun-nuts? Is one more "childlike" than the other?

Some of my gun owner axioms:

Bullets come and go, but firearms accumulate.

One should only buy a gun if one knows they'll eventually buy another.

Don't waste time with target practice if you think the only time you'll ever shoot will be when you are in the dark.

Give any little boy a broken twig instead of a gun and most likely he'll point it in someone's direction and shout, "bang!" (Not mine. Overheard)

Being a bad aim is no excuse for not shooting.

Never hold a beer while shooting a handgun. Drink and shoot simultaneously.

Always make sure the gun is more loaded than you.

If you take your time to aim, don't expect to ever fire.

Guns are like women. They never aim to please.

I used to get that from FORD.

Posted by GotTruth at 2008-02-19 10:13 AM | Reply


FORD didn't give you anything. FORD shot and killed workers to keep them from getting health insurance and other benefits. FORD sent goons to beat and terrorize workers who wanted insurance and benefits. Don't thank FORD for your insurance, thank the UNION for any benefits you might have gotten from FORD, because as far as FORD is concerned, you and your whole family can eat shit and die.

"Sure I am."
--R8RH8R

I know.

"Do you think the fear that lead you to buy an accidental-suicide-machine is any better or worse than my fear of gun-nuts? Is one more "childlike" than the other?"
--R8RH8R

Fear didn't lead me to buy anything, except maybe a car with a good safety rating. I have one gun, and it stays locked at all times (through the chamber); in other words nearly useless as a self defense tool. The only thing I use it for is clay pigeon shooting. But for someone who lives in a rougher neighborhood than myself, where break ins might be a stronger possibility, no I would not blame them for wanting to protect their families instead of cowering in fear hoping the cops get there in time.

Yes, your fear is extremely child like, because you equally fear the guy who enjoys hunting or the family living in a dangerous part of town with the fake macho man and the criminal, and you would strip the rights of the former to punish the latter.

Anyone who can only think of a gun as the way to protect their home and family is not only stupid, but I would say they are extremely stupid. To think they have reproduced is the saddest thought of all.

"I cannot say that I am opposed to a law like this. But, how does one reconcile the fact that there is a Second Amendment?

Would it be acceptable that people with a history of mental illness should have their speach limited?"

Your fundamental rights can be taken away if there is a compelling state interest in doing so. Here, the state interest is keeping people alive. Keeping people alive has long been considered to be one of the most compelling state interests.

The same interest of keeping people alive is not present when you are considering limiting the voting rights of the mentally ill. Nobody's lives are at risk, at least not as directly as they are when you allow the mentally ill to buy guns.

And I own two of these! When someone comes over, these are what I show off, not the gun. How's THAT for macho?

Those little guys are getting popular as pets, huh?

I thought those types of marsupials hang only in the outback. Were yours imported? How do they taste, he-he?

Jefferson and Franklin did not want a standing army caus ethey saw them as opressive to free people. Washington and Lock and a few others did want a standing Army or protection. They hit a COMPRIMISE. The army would stand but the peole would be armed incase the army became opressive. Socialsist and Facist Governments love a disarmed populus. They cant fight back.


They really should have taught you about our Constitution in High school guys.

Posted by GotTruth at 2008-02-19 09:43 AM

"Anyone who can only think of a gun as the way to protect their home and family is not only stupid, but I would say they are extremely stupid."

True. That's why I also have constructed my own trebuchet and a moat filled with famished pirahna.

It seems to work, at least the mailman tells me so.

Jefferson and Franklin did not want a standing army caus ethey saw them as opressive to free people. Washington and Lock and a few others did want a standing Army or protection. They hit a COMPRIMISE. The army would stand but the peole would be armed incase the army became opressive. Socialsist and Facist Governments love a disarmed populus. They cant fight back.


They really should have taught you about our Constitution in High school guys.

Posted by GotTruth at 2008-02-19 09:43 AM

"Jefferson and Franklin did not want a standing army caus ethey saw them as opressive to free people. Washington and Lock and a few others did want a standing Army or protection. They hit a COMPRIMISE. "

No you fucking slobering idiot. The new country had little money to fund a standing army. The 2nd amendment was a direct result of Shay's rebellion which the army barely was able to put down. It took them something like a year to respond. All the 2nd amendment gave was the right for states to form militias and arm them. It also gave the responsibility of states to defend themselves.

MY GOD, why didn't I think of that!!! While we are at it, lets get rid of the killing zones around schools that we have created with our "GUN FREE ZONES". It is obvious that the murders don't fo;;ow the rules.

"Anyone who can only think of a gun as the way to protect their home and family is not only stupid, but I would say they are extremely stupid."

Posted by Buffalo_Bob

So I gotta ask: somebody's kickin' in your back door in the middle of the night. You don't know who they are or what they want. What are you going to do?

"No you fucking slobering idiot. The new country had little money to fund a standing army. The 2nd amendment was a direct result of Shay's rebellion which the army barely was able to put down. It took them something like a year to respond. All the 2nd amendment gave was the right for states to form militias and arm them. It also gave the responsibility of states to defend themselves."

Argue like a grown-up Furio.

This argument is compelling, and your reasoning does have merit, and has been argued before. Certainly Washington took heed to the rebellion and came to the conclusion that a centralized central govt made more sense than he previously had admitted to-- and the second ammendment was needed to keep local militias from not falling into disregulation and lacking of supplies.

However, Jefferson did not believe this. He understood the reality of the source of rebellions such as this one and the importance of being able to express discontentment through the showing of arms.

He remembers well that Thomas Gage tried to disarm colonists in Boston as a prelude to the revolution and many of the other founding fathers (Madison, Adams, et al) used this example in calling for an INDIVIDUAL'S right to bear arms.

"Those little guys are getting popular as pets, huh?

I thought those types of marsupials hang only in the outback. Were yours imported? How do they taste, he-he?"
--K_G_BEEKEEPER

Mine were raised in captivity in Florida.

Haven't tried grilling one up yet. It'd be an awful lot of money for a very small tenderloin. ;)

Anyone who can only think of a gun as the way to protect their home and family is not only stupid, but I would say they are extremely stupid.

Posted by Buffalo_Bob

You wake upto here someone kicking down your door. What do you do?

Do you cal 911 and wait 5 or 10 minutes for some cop to show up so they can chalk your body?

Do you get out the old 12 guage and blow the son-of-a-bitch back down the stairs so the cops can chalk his body?

What do you do? The choice is yours buf.

"Argue like a grown-up Furio."

Beekeeper,

Don't foolishly think that you are actually arguing or having any sort of intelligent discourse with gottruth.

because you equally fear the guy who enjoys hunting or the family living in a dangerous part of town with the fake macho man and the criminal, and you would strip the rights of the former to punish the latter.

Where have you been the last ten years? Is isn't hardline criminals shooting up schools, malls, and factory floors. It has been 'people who enjoy hunting', spoiled suburbanites, everyday folks who are on or recently were on psychotropic medications killing people in mass. Gang bangers usually kill each other. Burglars rarely kill or even enter occupied dwellings. Ownership of a gun makes you MORE likely to be killed by a firearm, not less.

Families living in "a dangerous part of town" should move, buy an alarm system, get a dog, or all of the above. Buying a gun will only insure that when their home is broken into another criminal will be equipped with an unregistered gun.

So I gotta ask: somebody's kickin' in your back door in the middle of the night. You don't know who they are or what they want. What are you going to do?

Most likely I wont have to do anything. You ever heard two angry ridge backs in the dark? If I am forced to act it will go something like this: "sick 'em!". At that point the burglar had better have a gun, preferably for him, a shotgun, and plenty of ammo.

More importantly, what are the criteria for determining that someone is mentally ill? The could just "interpret" that law to include anyone that wants a gun...

Posted by jsprague at 2008-02-19 09:10 AM

i certainly hope so... the idea that you need a gun is already an indication that you're nuts.

I'll take the bet on 2 ridgebacks over a guy with a glock in the dark any time. Nasty creatures. Unless you get a head shot they will be chewing your face off in 1 second. Ever see an angry dog move fast?

Nasty creatures

Only to first-time strangers, armadillos, people that smell funny (hippies), and lions.

When it comes to me and mine, they are angelic, obedient, and always aware. I doubt they would ever need to actually attack someone. When they get rilled up over strange sounds or knocks late at night, it sounds like I am torturing a yeti to the untrained ear. That should be enough to deter anyone with three or more functioning brain cells.

i certainly hope so... the idea that you need a gun is already an indication that you're nuts.

Posted by bellaspapa at 2008-02-19 12:28 PM

Death figures for 2004 per 100,000 people.

Heart=217.5; Cancer=184.6; cer/vasc=50; Resp=41.8; Diabets=24.4; Pneumonia=36.6; Accidents=36.6; Suicide=10.7; Homicide=5.6

Pardon the pun but, where are we going to get the biggest bang in decreasing deaths? Then on the other hand, we are all going to die so you arn't going to change the total.

"Where have you been the last ten years? Is isn't hardline criminals shooting up schools, malls, and factory floors. It has been 'people who enjoy hunting', spoiled suburbanites, everyday folks who are on or recently were on psychotropic medications killing people in mass."
--R8RH8R

If you're trying to say that those with mental illnesses should not be allowed to own guns, I'll agree with you. That's not the same as, "I think anyone who willfully places an accidental-suicide-machine (gun) in their home has a slight mental defect." All gun owners aren't mentally ill just because they own a gun, despite what your cowering fearful mentality tells you.

"Ownership of a gun makes you MORE likely to be killed by a firearm, not less."

I'll agree or disagree based on whether you back this statement up or if you are just talking out your ass.

"Families living in "a dangerous part of town" should move,"

Because everyone can just pick up and go, especially those who live in poverty.

"buy an alarm system, get a dog, or all of the above."

And buy a gun.

I had a ridgeback. Great dog. Anatolian shepherds are pretty fine, too.

"Most likely I wont have to do anything. You ever heard two angry ridge backs in the dark? "

Posted by r8rh8r

Yeah, everybody should have a brace of attack dogs at their beck and call.

Mighty doubtful the perp would enter a domicile knowing that there be dogs.

Nice sidestepping of the question though.

BTW, y'a got them ridge backs registered?

Guns dont need to be fed or walked... i'll stick with the Gun

Convenience store owner stops two robbers with own gun


BY JOURNAL TIMES STAFF
Friday, February 15, 2008 3:28 PM CST


RACINE - A convenience store owner who was robbed earlier this month stopped two would-be-robbers before they even reached the service counter Friday afternoon when he pulled out a handgun.

Numan Pasqualine, the owner of Quick Market at 4303 16th St., said he saw two men approaching his store on the video surveillance camera.

"I thought there was something wrong," he said. "They had their heads down, so you couldn't see their masks."

The men entered the Quick Market, and one of them waved a gun. Pasqualine said he grabbed his own gun from behind the counter. "I told him to get down twice," he said.

The man, who was standing in the corner near the entrance, and the second suspect, who was already by the door, then fled the store and ran south on Indiana Street. They didn't take anything from the store.

Racine police were called to the convenience store at 12:16 p.m.

Reports said this is the second time the Quick Market was robbed this month. On Feb. 3, just before 7 p.m. two masked men entered the store, one armed with a handgun and robbed it.

i certainly hope so... the idea that you need a gun is already an indication that you're nuts.

Posted by bellaspapa at 2008-02-19 12:28 PM

I don't Need a gun, but I want one, or two, etc.

Posted by Roy_Batty at 2008-02-19 12:59 PM

whoops, thanks.... fudged the wording: The illusion that you need a gun or the desire to own one... etc...

I cannot say that I am opposed to a law like this. But, how does one reconcile the fact that there is a Second Amendment?

Would it be acceptable that people with a history of mental illness should have their speach limited?

Or should people with a history of mental illness not be allowed to vote?

Where do you draw the line? What works for one person may not work for everyone.

Posted by sawdust at 2008-02-19 08:51 AM | Reply |

Not allowing them to arm themselves seems a pretty reasonable line. None the less to some degree you are correct.

Mental illness does not equate into gunning down a bunch of people at a college. But it should neccessitate a great degree of scrutiny.

BTW, y'a got them ridge backs registered?

The female is. She was born to a champion breeder, but ridge-less, so I got her as a gift. The male came from a shelter as a puppy. He was part of a dog-fighting ring in Georgia. He isn't registered.

Nice sidestepping of the question though.

No side-step. You asked a question and I answered it honestly. They aren't "attack dogs" they are a part of my family. Protection is the least of their duties. They are simply our loving companions, but they wouldn't mind a good scrap if required.

I'm in favor of the second amendment because it gives the people the power to keep the government in check. However; it's not wise to hand over a lethal weapon to someone who's mentally ill. Even the military makes you pass a retard test I do believe. Correct me if i'm wrong.

ya that's right i said retard test get over it.

whoops, thanks.... fudged the wording: The illusion that you need a gun or the desire to own one... etc...

Posted by bellaspapa at 2008-02-19 01:40 PM

People with multiple personality disorder should only be able to get a license to own a firearm under one of their personalities. Otherwise they tend to have gun fights with themselves.

I say scrutinize everyone who wants a gun. Come up with rationales for denial that include mental illness. Also, test everyone's abilities at handling the weapon and test their safety knowledge. Those who score the highest get the most gun-owning privileges.

Hell, maybe test absolutely everyone who turns 18, just like how the Selective Service registers all men at 18. Everybody will know if they are fit to carry. Maybe let (or legally force) employers of certain fields (convenience stores) require workers to carry.

That way, in the end, not only would we have less unstable people with guns, but all of the noncrazy citizens and workers with guns would be trained. The gunmakers would make a load of money, and people might behave really nicely.

Maybe certain states can experiment with gun laws like this (Wisconsin?) Don't the Swiss require everyone to have a gun and to know how to use it? I say, give it a try. I dunno, maybe this kinda thinking qualifies me as a nutjob.

"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject."
-- Unknown


however, an armed nutcase is dangerous.

"Better to have a gun and not need it, than to need it and not have it."
-- David Crosby

better to be tried by twelve than carried by six.

get him a gun

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759.

locked and loaded.

I say scrutinize everyone who wants a gun. Come up with rationales for denial that include mental illness. Also, test everyone's abilities at handling the weapon and test their safety knowledge. Those who score the highest get the most gun-owning privileges.

Posted by scrumplet at 2008-02-19 04:02 PM

".22 long for coyotes"

What? You just trying to irritate 'em?

Last one I shot I used a 7mm-08 Weatherby.

Of course not, that is why I gave several other options for people afraid of being burglarized.


R8....you gave no real option...the only thing you said was that robbers only want your money

SO BASICALLY YOU ARE TRUSTING THE BAD GUY TO DO THE RIGHT THING

i will not follow any adivce giving the bad guy to make the right decision

We should test the DNA of everyone who wants to own a gun as well as that of their mother, father, aunts, uncles, children......I think you probably can figure out my reasoning here.

PEOPLE OF AMERICA....ITS UP TO YOU TO PROVIDE SAFTEY...THE POLICE ONLY COME AFTER A CRIME HAS BEEN COMMITTED....DO NOT LEAVE THE DECISION OF DOING THE RIGHT THING...BE LEFT TO THE BAD GUY....TRAIN YOURSELF....BE AWARE OF YOUR SURRONDINGS....THERE ARE MANY COURSES YOU CAN TAKE FOR SELF DEFENSE...EXERSISE YOUR 2ND AMENDEMENT RIGHT... JUST LIKE YOU EXERSISE YOUR 1ST AMENDEMNT RIGHT ON THIS BLOG EVERY DAY

YOU ARE AN AMERICAN....YOU ARE GIVEN THE LIBERTIES OF A FREE PEOPLE....THOSE LIBERTIES HAVE A RESPONISIBLITY.....AND ONE OF THE RESPOSIBLITIES IS TO PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS.....DO NOT LET THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE AN AGENDA TO SUPRESS YOUR RIGHTS AS AN AMERICAN....STOP YOU......YOU ARE PROTECTED UNDER THE CONSITUTION OF THE UNTIED STATES OF AMERICA.....BUT THAT WILL NOT STOP THEM...ACT NOW ...GET INVOLVED IN YOUR FREEDOMS....IF YOU DONT...YOU MAY WAKE UP ONE DAY AND WONDER WHERE YOUR FREEDOMS HAVE GONE

TO THE ANTIGUN CROWD....FUCK YOU ASSHOLES!!!!!

Roy, we can't come up with anything good because it's a "right" and not a "privilege?" What we have in place now isn't good enough. Allow the state to interpret the Second Amendment a bit differently. I don't know how to hold it up in court, but if there's a way. Hell, we could try amending the Constitution to allow states more control over gun rights. It's the 21st century, and people are tired of the shit that's been going on.

We should test the DNA of everyone...

You could have stopped right there and I'd have agreed with you.

What it has to do with gun ownership I'm not at all sure.

But it does provide positive genealogical proof, which might actually promote more gun violence when the old man finds out he only has three children instead of six.

I do think that people taking psychotropic drugs should refrain from using firearms. Drug companies are notorious for submitting only positive studies, and we keep hearing about people taking them who either go nuts on the medication, or quit taking their medication and go nuts.

Same with alcohol, except of course on those cold mornings around the campfire when the hunters are shaking off the chill of the night and waking up with a snort of Wild Turkey.

After all, it is a religious observance of men who seek not euphoria but a communion with the holy spirit, especially if it is 101 proof.

Maybe just maybe we are starting to see a little chink in the NRA bullet proof vest. I see some are actually reading the second amendment. And when you do you will realize that you've been screwed. The appeasers in congress have given up the battle when it if far from over. In fact, it is just beginning.

Stand up to the gun nuts. The 2nd amendment is open to interpretation. In those days the people and the Militia were one and the same. Therefore, the framers did not see any need to make such a distinction. Gun ownership is not a right. However, there was a need for a well regulated Militia to put down rebellions. In those days barracks were citizen's homes. People's guns were armaments for the Militia. Don't let the gun nuts dictate their meaning into the Constitution to the point were we now have a totally unnecessary evil posing as a right.

R8....you gave no real option...the only thing you said was that robbers only want your money

Go back and read my post, dumbass. If you can't keep up with the conversation you must sit at the kiddie table.

What I said was: Families living in "a dangerous part of town" should move, buy an alarm system, get a dog, or all of the above.

So that's:
1.move
2.get an alarm system
3.get a dog
4.any or all of the above

Never did I utter, "that robbers only want your money".

Speaking of mentally ill people that should not be allowed a gun.....I present exhibit A: Judas

The prosecution rest.

"Well they certainly aren't making rational decisions about their families' well-being. Unless you have some specific and reasonable function for a gun, like a rancher's .22 long for coyotes, guns make you less safe."
--R8RH8R

No, no, according to you, the rancher has a mental defect for wanting a gun in his home.

"in the case of your average gun owner, where the gun and ammo aren't locked,"

Might be true, but you're going to have to link it. Regardless, I support mandatory training for would-be owners, and for manufacturers to provide locks. Common sense solutions as opposed to the Wild West style free access of the NRA and the nanny state gun-H8R style complete control.

"Will the New England Journal of Medicine suffice?

research has shown that a gun kept in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a member of the household, or friend, than an intruder."

From the same link:

But he goes on to argue that these statistics are "an insufficient basis for the personal decision whether or not to obtain a gun for self-protection.... First, the decision involves a trade-off between the risks of gun accidents and violent victimization.

"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject."
-- Unknown

These snippets go great on bumper stickers and NRA propaganda but let's be real. The people on this board, and in America in general, who strongly support a blanket policy of 'guns for everyone' will not be leading the Revolution when it comes. These people are the lock-steppers. They are the 27%ers. The lick-spittle Bush Bots. They think questioning your government in matters of war and peace is akin to treason. This same black and white mindset is used when discussing the modern interpretation of a 200 year old document and how it may be affected by 21st century technology and circumstances. They believe the Constitution is a dead chunk of stone not a living guideline.

The Revolution, when it comes, will be despite the people, not because of them no matter how many weapons they acquire.

So relating the gun lobby to a modern day Thomas Paine is more than a stretch, it's a fallacy.

Don't the Swiss require everyone to have a gun and to know how to use it? I say, give it a try.

First, the Swiss have mandatory military service with some exemptions though they carry a tax penalty.

After active military service each soldier retains their rifle (an ASSAULT RIFLE) and a box of ammo with an official seal.


who strongly support a blanket policy of 'guns for everyone' will not be leading the Revolution when it comes. These people are the lock-steppers.

What a MohrOn.

You just described yourself.

HERE YOU GO R8....YOUR WORDS

Burglars rarely kill or even enter occupied dwellings: posted by R8


but i bet you never heard of home invasions....and people being raped and killed during burlaries....your suggestions are weak and do nothing to stop the act...you expect the bad guty to do the right thing....you think moving will solve the problem....you think crime only happens in bad neighborhoods....why should you have to move to be safe...this is a free country.....if the cops can not make a neighboroohd safe.....why should a law bidding citizen not be allowed to protect themselves


R8 im glad you are a rich person that lives in a nice neighborhood....im glad you have all the money to buy the alarms and cameras and dogs......it seems to work for you

i rather do what works for me....and thats owning a gun



CAMERAS RECORD THE BURLARIES

ALARMS ALERT OF BURLARIES

DOGS ARE UNKNOWN IN BUGLARIES

NONE OF THESE STOP BURGARLIES



COPS COME ONLY AFTER A CRIME IS COMMITTED

THE THINGS THAT YOU MENTIONED ABOVE DO NOTHING ABOUT CRIME

YOU CAN WATCH THE SHOW COPS...AND YOU WILL SEE..PEOPLE WILL BE ROBBED EVEN WHEN CAMERAS ARE PRESENT...AND CRIMINALS KNOW THIS...YET THEY WILL STILL ROB...STEAL...KILL....IN FRONT OF CAMERAS

People's guns were armaments for the Militia. Don't let the gun nuts dictate their meaning into the Constitution to the point were we now have a totally unnecessary evil posing as a right.

Posted by TurnLeftb42late at 2008-02-19 04:46 PM

Common sense solutions as opposed to the Wild West style free access of the NRA and the nanny state gun-H8R style complete control.

I think we agree more than you may want to admit, LoD. We both think the mentally ill shouldn't have guns, that's a start. I include anyone in this category that uses prescription medication for "mental health". So the millions of people with depression are excluded, which should make their entire household excluded.

I'll bet our only real disagreement on the issue is what constitutes a legal firearm. Since the gun lobby wants a 'strict' and literal interpretation I would be satisfied with only legalizing the guns present during the writing of the Constitution. I mean, lets take 1776 ideals to the extreme. Muskets for everyone!

Anywho, I'll reply tomorrow, off to fix the BOH a nice dinner.

R8...call me all the names you want....but in the end i will stand in the face of danger...instead of cowering in a corner like you....hoping the BAD GUY WILL DO THE RIGHT THING AND NOT HURT YOU


GOOD LUCK


IM GOING TO MAKE A DONATION TO THE NRA IN YOUR NAME AND BUY A GUN THIS WEEK TO EXERSICE MY 2ND AMENDMENT RIGHT

"No you fucking slobering idiot. The new country had little money to fund a standing army. The 2nd amendment was a direct result of Shay's rebellion which the army barely was able to put down. It took them something like a year to respond. All the 2nd amendment gave was the right for states to form militias and arm them. It also gave the responsibility of states to defend themselves."

Posted by furio at 2008-02-19 11:16 AM

While you are correct about some things you stated, you're wrong about the true reaction to Shay's rebellion and the intent of the 2nd amendment. The reaction to Shay's rebellion was an increased push for a stronger federal government that would be able to tax, regulate trade, and yes, keep a larger standing army. Thus the Articles of Confederation were trashed and the current Constitution (minus certain amendments that were established along the way) was created.
In order to truely understand the intent of the 2nd amsndment, you must understand the men who wrote it. You should investigate what people like George Mason, Patrick Henry, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, and yes, Thomas Jefferson said about the individuals right to bear arms. After reading their views, it is easy to see they intended individuals to have the right to keep and bear arms.

Oh, someone stated that there are 30,000 deaths per year by guns. But over half (16,869 last year) are suicide. Do you people think if there were no guns, those people wouldn't have commited suicide? Or would they have just done it a different way? If you subtract the suicide deaths, the U.S. falls way down on the list of gun deaths per 100,000.

Well they certainly aren't making rational decisions about their families' well-being. Unless you have some specific and reasonable function for a gun, like a rancher's .22 long for coyotes, guns make you less safe. And in the case of your average gun owner, where the gun and ammo aren't locked, you make yourself and your family a lot less safe. Yet they rationalize it using a mental defect to hide their absurdity.
Posted by r8rh8r at 2008-02-19 03:55 PM

I'm curious as to your reasoning. Your arguement is flawed, just because the rancher uses his weapon for a "specific and reasonable function," that alone does not increase his/her families safety. The weapon must be stored and if he is the "average" gun owner it is stored unlocked and with ammo readily available. Most gun owners do have a specific reason for gun ownership, protection, which is basically the same reason a rancher has his rifle. And by less safe, do you mean the 800 or so accidental shootings each year (ex. child finds gun and kills self or others, but more often it's the idiot who shoots himself while cleaning the weapon)? That number is less than 3% of the total gun deaths per year. There are over 50 million registered gun owners in the U.S. The math works out to be: for every 62,500 or so registered gun owners, there's one accidental gun death per year. For every 375,000 Americans, there is one accidental gun death per year. There are far more accidental drownings per year. It seems as if your characterization of the "average" gun owner is a bit off.

You just described yourself.

I'm a lock-stepper?

Kewl. Never been called that before.

I think you probably can figure out my reasoning here.

Posted by danni at 2008-02-19 04:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

Your "reasoning" is known to everyone on the DR as DanniDrivel.



From Spud's perspective this one is a no-brainer.

Guns don't kill people lack of prozac kills people.

Better meds than dead!

Be Well.


Posted by dethspud at 2008-02-19 05:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

So, DudSpud(tm) are you positioning yourself to blame running out of your prozac for your POS behavior....
Ya' better get your dosage dramatically increased ya' POS.

R8....BTW......i have a dad with over 20years in law enforcement...and he encourages me to own a gun...i have a brother...uncles and friends that are in law enforcement and they tell me to buy a gun for protection

the majority of my family and friends are armed with concealment permits... i rather trust their advice over your anyday of the week

of are you going to say that the advice cops give is wrong too

From Spud's perspective this one is a no-brainer.

Guns don't kill people lack of prozac kills people.

Better meds than dead!

Another MohrOn.
Google: antidepressants violence; hits: about 739,000

"but long term use of antidepressants has not shown itself to be the magic bullet that some had hoped, or as some continue to think"

Not a magic bullet, but immense help to millions.

the majority of my family and friends are armed with concealment permits... i rather trust their advice over your anyday of the week

Hey Judas...

This might suprise you but the more Spud thinks about it the more Spud is convinced that conceal & carry should be permitted on Campuses across the US in order to prevent and/or minimise losses like we saw at Virginia Tech and NIU.*

Many student groups are demanding the opportunity in light of those recent tragedies and others.

Wot say you to this?

Be Well.

/*21 and up only. Crazy folks need not apply.

As usually the turgid tuber plays the pundit and falls short of anything that represents good sense much less wisdom.

Oh Mikey yer such a shit fer brains it's scary.

Not only are you ignorant of wisdom but you have a very limited and sophomoric sense of humour as well.

The Prozac thing was actually a joke mostly, a parody of an old NRA sound byte.

The point to my post ya ignoranus, was that anybody who was on prozac or any other anti-depressants/anti-
psychotics should not be allowed legal access to weaponry.

Learn to read, would ya.

In some cases folks have a reaction to their prescriped meds and go bonkers because of them in other cases they go off their meds and go bonkers.

Under Spud's proposed scenario neither group would be a risk because both would be legally banned from owning guns.

Now give yer wee head a shake, try and get them li'l metal balls back in all three holes and re-read that.

No need to apologise to Spud.

Spud knows you can't help being a assholistic biatch.

Be Well.

I said it once and I'll say it agian. I bet the first and sadly LAST thoughts in the minds of the dead students at VT and NIU were something to the tune of "OH SHIT THAT GUY HAS A GUN!!!! I WISH I HAD ONE TO SHOOT BACK!"

um, spud?

who's "mikey"?

as for all this 2nd amendment stuff. Why is EVERY amendment in the Bill of Rights universally understood as rights of THE INDIVIDUAL except the 2nd???? If it was not a INDIVIDUAL right they would have put it some where else. It does not read "The Right of the MILTIA to keep and bear Arms" it plainly states "The Peoples Right to keep and bear Arms". Serioulsy, learn to read.

um, spud?

who's "mikey"?

~Nanc.

Mikey is aka Ozark Aggie.

OA is his old handle. Fer a while he went by his name as his handle ie Mike Siesel. Now he's reverted to OzzarkAggie once again.

Tis the nature of blogworld. Some of us have been around longer than others. After the blog-god, Gal Tuesday is the most senior of all us Drudgies. Spud is seniority number 20 or sommat.

After active military service each soldier retains their rifle (an ASSAULT RIFLE) and a box of ammo with an official seal.

Wot, they don't get a free Swiss Army knife too?

Wot a gyp!!

Actually, Spud wants to marry one of them Swiss Army Wives.

Apparently, they are very multi-functional if ya know wot I means!

RRRuff!! Woo Hoo!! ** Wolf Whistle ** ^_^

Be Well.

/Guys is just awful it's true but really wot's a girl to do?
//Can't bring a vibrator home to meet the parents can ya? Ha!

Sorry i missed spoke earlier: it is clearly written AFTER THE MILTIA (context people) "the RIGHT of the PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms, shal not be infringed."

SPUD....in my state you have to be 21 in order to purchase a handgun....as for student carring on campus...as long as they have a permit i do not have a problem

if the campus enforces a GUN FREE CAMPUS...they need to have the police manpower to ensure saftey (which is impossible)...unless we do what the airlines do and have a undercover agent in every class....plus the normal police manpower

for a college to have 8 cops(round the clock protection) for a 1000+ students and say its a GUN FREE CAMPUS.......is not a safe way to run a campus....and if i was a parent of a student....i would want to know what safety measures the college has in place

i personally think that colleges say they are safe....when they really are not....alot are not even prepared to handle situations like these when they arise

its like VT... the cops setup a parimeter and wait for SWAT...by then its too late

No need to apologise to Spud.

LMAO

You deserve condemnation and nothing else.

20% of murders are committed using a knife. Should they hand out sporks with each script for Prozac?

After my mom died my doctor suggested an antidepressant, but I wasn't unhappy. Just going through the normal grieving cycle. Once he understood that we just sat and talked about it.

Of course when it comes to the death of a loved one we can always count on the MohrOn-pud to piss on the grave. But I digress.

The point: Some doctors hand out these scripts without a proper diagnosis. They don't get to the root of the problem, and so we have a lot of people helped as OReally mentioned, many by chance, but we also have people walking around like zombies - posting the kind of bullshit that you do.

Basically you're a hypocrite who lives in Canastan yet feels qualified in your mashed potato mind to comment on US politics and culture.

You've sucked your way back in with the libbers who are willing to be blind to your shameful behavior, but you're really an asshole at heart and anyone who remembers why you were exiled knows that.

You've sucked your way back in with the libbers who are willing to be blind to your shameful behavior, but you're really an asshole at heart and anyone who remembers why you were exiled knows that.

Ozark, I usually find myself agreeing with you for most things, but I have to say, for some odd reason, there is an exception here.

Goat deserved everything given and the fact he whined so hard told me about the mans' actual character. No stiff upper lip there, that's for sure.

Campus shootings are a social and mental health issue separate from gun access. They didn't occur before the current gun control regime (Texas Tower Shooting being the lone exception) when guns were far more accessible, so how can you say that guns are the problem when they are now less accessible?

Guns are THINGS, nothing more. The people who use them criminally are the problem. Sadly, criminal behavior is a human trait that simply exists, and it won't go away if you take away everyone's guns, even if you could. Pointing to other cultures who don't have as large a problem with violence misses the point, THIS culture is the one in question.

It's a difficult problem, and I don't have any insights into how things could change, but focussing on guns isn't the answer since it ignores the homicidal behavior behind the violence that will continue even gunless.

Yes, guns are usually designed to kill, but in a self-defense context, that's their function, not their purpose. The purpose of a defensive weapon is to provide the potential of force to deter violence. An assailant is only going to be deterred by force or the threat of it, whether that force comes from the police or the intended victim. Since the police can't be everpresent, that leaves the victim to do whatever they can. Banning guns would take them away from potential victims, but would do nothing to take them out of the hands of potential assailants.

And all of this ignores the fact that very few crimes actually REQUIRE a gun. Take all guns out of the picture, and criminals would still rape, rob and murder people. They're be a little choosier, perhaps, picking out the smallest and weakest in the population, and they'd probably be more violent, since they couldn't just point a gun and have an instant advantage. In essence, you'd eliminate school/mall shootings and drivebys, but you'd have a much better chance of getting your head bashed in with a brick.

Ozark, I usually find myself agreeing with you for most things, but I have to say, for some odd reason, there is an exception here. $War

I'm not sure what went on before the thread on Major Andrew Olmsted, but Goat's response was pretty mild considering that the man's last wish was not only ignored, but arrogantly dismissed. He's dead so the MohrOn-pud writes that wishes don't count in Blog World.

Why would anyone post a thread allegedly in honor of someone and then dishonor his last request?

Remember the kudos the MohrON-pud tossed out when I posted The Cremation of Sam McGee?

Guess what? It's a ballad about honoring the dying wish of a friend.

There's always flames on this site. Goat and I traded a few punches when he first came on, but we also share some interests. He's smart about science and I like that. But I don't just jump to his defense for no reason.

Anyway, when the MohrOn-pud moved from the Olmsted thread to another and attacked Goat using his deceased wife I decided that was out of bounds.

Yet, it also revealed the true character of that miscreant, always moralizing, condemning - a worthless fuck who lives with his mum in Canastan but is somehow an authority of all things America.

In court a man is known by his attorney who advocates for him.

In life a man is known by his enemies, and I'm proud to list the MohrOn-pud as one of mine.

One thing I've learned as well, is that man without enemies can never truly be your friend.

Not a magic bullet, but immense help to millions.

And therein lies the problem.. Millions of people should not be cruising around on psychoactive drugs. Drugs alleviate depression - they don't CURE it, but they do remove the desire or need to confront its causes. Then the patient often becomes addicted to the drugs and relies on them to cope. I know 2 people in this situation that should have never been prescribed the drugs in the first place.

I don't like unnecessary laws, but I could support one that would rule out gun ownership for those on these types of meds. Either the meds will make them crazy, or a crazy person will forget to take their meds. Nearly every mass shooting we have had has been the result of one of those.

I know people that take those medications to remove the edge, so they can deal with their problems in therapy.

Haven't met one person that is stuck taking them to avoid their problems.

Are Americans over medicated? Certainly. But If an American can't own a gun because they're taking prozac, HW Bush shouldn't have been running a war while on it.(OK, that goes without saying...but let people keep their guns.) The VA Tech guy should've never been able to buy a gun because he was PSYCHOTIC. That has nothing to do with depression medication. He was insane, not unhappy.

He was insane, not unhappy.

From what I have read, nobody knew he was insane.. That is the problem and why I say that those on heavy psychoactive drugs probably shouldn't own guns. And I also believe that doctors need to stop prescribing them everytime a person has a problem.

The same people who are so determined to protect their interpretation of the second amendment seem happy to let the SC ignore our right to demand that the government obtain a warrant before they invade our privacy. I have no interest really in the gun argument, I don't own one but I don't object to others owning them but I do detect an inconsistency which seems to be relative to most folk's political pursuasion. I don[t think rights should be dependent upon which party you belong to and it makes me wonder how many of us actually every think for ourselves and arrive at our own conclusions about issues. It makes me wonder, if Hilary Clinton were president would it still be ok with you righties for the government to listen in on your telephone conversations without obtaining a warrant?

"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject."
-- Unknown

"These snippets go great on bumper stickers and NRA propaganda but let's be real. The people on this board, and in America in general, who strongly support a blanket policy of 'guns for everyone' will not be leading the Revolution when it comes. These people are the lock-steppers. They are the 27%ers. The lick-spittle Bush Bots. They think questioning your government in matters of war and peace is akin to treason."
Posted by r8rh8r

The hypocricy of your post amuses me... "lock-steppers,"... "27%ers,"... "Bush-Bots," Your Move-On.org propaganda looks quite good on bumper stickers also.

Careful there, jwil72. R8RH8R gots dawgs and he ain't afeared to use 'em!

"20% of murders are committed using a knife. Should they hand out sporks with each script for Prozac?"

"Hey! Back off, man!!! I got a spork and I know how to use it!!!"

"Uhm... Sir? You might want to take it out of the plastic wrapper first."

"What...? Oh shit... It's the Prozac y'a know. I can't... I just can't... think... damn... what... hey! Back off, man!!! I got a spork and I know how to use it!!!"

"Sigh..."

"i personally think that colleges say they are safe....when they really are not....alot are not even prepared to handle situations like these when they arise"
--JUDAS

The campus I work on wouldn't even allow the campus police to carry weapons (who, mind you, are fully trained police officers). If a situation arose, they would have to run back to the station to pick up their weapons and/or call the city police.

Thankfully they've recently reversed that. Sadly, it took VT for them to do so.

Hey r8rh8r, I think bush is a total fuck up. Just like his dady and just like cliton, regan, carter, nixon, johnson, ect ect.... Dem or Rep they both screw us into the ground. and it is all planned. Why do you think the last thing we ever came togther and got something done was WW2.

DOgs wont stop a really commited killer. He will just shoot your dog. Then you.

Its not "guns for everyone" you dolt. Its firearms for any comptitent citezens who wish to excercise thier Constitutional right.

I bet i could murder someone with dulled up butter knife if i really wanted them dead. Face reality people ANYTHING IS A WEAPON.

Posted by GotTruth


Let's see that butter knife accidentally go off and a 5 yr old kills his 2 yr old sister. YOU ARE A MORON.

DOgs wont stop a really commited killer. He will just shoot your dog. Then you.

I understand that. I'm just not willing to put my family, friends, and neighborhood at risk everyday by having guns and ammo lying around just because there is a possibility that one day I will meet a "really committed killer".

Its not "guns for everyone" you dolt. Its firearms for any comptitent citezens

OK, great. You have me won over so far. However you must admit that you view differs from the NRA and many gun owners. Sadly, the 2nd Amendment make no qualifier of competence. I submit that people who stockpile assault and sniper rifles, explosives, and cases of ammunition aren't competent citizens. Would you agree? Or do you think several semi-automatic rifles with a 1,000 yard range and armor piercing ammo were considered and made acceptable by the Framers?

We agree that not everyone in America should be afforded the right to own guns, regardless of what the 2nd Amendment says. I say that's a good start at a belated compromise.

Your Move-On.org propaganda

What's up, Kettle? I'm pot. Nice to meet you.

We can do this all week if you like.

Or would you like to deny my premise that the people who vote down gun restrictions typically have no problem with government increasing our ever-growing police state; Or that these same people aren't whip-lash quick to throw the "traitor" tag at anyone who publicly disagrees with government policy in matters of war and peace.

I think it is a love/desire for violence that drives them, so long as the violence happens to someone else, and as far from their door as possible.

NOT ENERYONE SHOULD BE AFFORDED TO THE RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH ALSO...REGARDLESS WHAT THE FIRST AMENDMENT SAYS

AND WE SHOULD MAKE RESTRICTIONS ON VOTING TOO

PEOPLE OF AMERICA....ITS UP TO YOU TO PROVIDE SAFTEY...THE POLICE ONLY COME AFTER A CRIME HAS BEEN COMMITTED....DO NOT LEAVE THE DECISION OF DOING THE RIGHT THING...BE LEFT TO THE BAD GUY....TRAIN YOURSELF....BE AWARE OF YOUR SURRONDINGS....THERE ARE MANY COURSES YOU CAN TAKE FOR SELF DEFENSE...EXERSISE YOUR 2ND AMENDEMENT RIGHT... JUST LIKE YOU EXERSISE YOUR 1ST AMENDEMNT RIGHT ON THIS BLOG EVERY DAY

YOU ARE AN AMERICAN....YOU ARE GIVEN THE LIBERTIES OF A FREE PEOPLE....THOSE LIBERTIES HAVE A RESPONISIBLITY.....AND ONE OF THE RESPOSIBLITIES IS TO PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS.....DO NOT LET THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE AN AGENDA TO SUPRESS YOUR RIGHTS AS AN AMERICAN....YOU ARE PROTECTED UNDER THE CONSITUTION OF THE UNTIED STATES OF AMERICA.....BUT THAT WILL NOT STOP THEM...ACT NOW ...GET INVOLVED IN YOUR FREEDOMS....IF YOU DONT...YOU MAY WAKE UP ONE DAY AND WONDER WHERE YOUR FREEDOMS HAVE GONE

YOU MAY WAKE UP ONE DAY AND WONDER WHERE YOUR FREEDOMS HAVE GONE

You say this like BushCo haven't eroded America's Freedoms one by one.

BushCo actually took guns away from citizens during Katrina.

They have talked the NRA talk but then they walked backwards.

They have destroyed the Constitution, the seperation of church and state, habeus corpus, the Geneva convention, people's right to privacy, Free speech etc.

If you want a President who gives a flying fuck about the average American, the ideals the country was based on and those freedoms you talk about there is only one choice to make.

08ama.

Be Well.

"Your Move-On.org propaganda"

What's up, Kettle? I'm pot. Nice to meet you.

We can do this all week if you like.

Or would you like to deny my premise that the people who vote down gun restrictions typically have no problem with government increasing our ever-growing police state; Or that these same people aren't whip-lash quick to throw the "traitor" tag at anyone who publicly disagrees with government policy in matters of war and peace.

I think it is a love/desire for violence that drives them, so long as the violence happens to someone else, and as far from their door as possible."

Posted by r8rh8r

I am not the kettle, but you are most certainly smoking pot. And you're wrong, we would not be able to do this all week because you would run out of useless slogans that bear little or no resemblence to fact, and I am chocked full of facts. Don't be mad at me when I point out your hypocrisy, and man you are full of hypocrisy. I'm not going to argue your premise because it is a ridiculous blanket statement that has very little footing. Anecdotes and slogans aside, you don't know what your talking about.

Words don't kill people. Bullets kill people.

Guns dont pull their own triggers people do. and again i say you cant stop crazy, you can stop the government from trampling your RIGHTS

DETH...do not worry about american politics...because really you have stake in american freedoms.....let us americans worry about our country and our freedoms...you worry about your country

Wow...does this mean Obama may loose hig gun?..this is not right.

most certainly smoking pot

Damned right. Really good pot, too. Sour Diesel now, the Jack Herer still has 4-5 weeks to flower.

I bet the denial of that right--to grow your own cannabis--a right commissioned, employed, and demanded of the other colonialists by the founding fathers, is perfectly acceptable to you. This of course reinforces the point you refuse to debate; that gun-nuts, like you, have a plethora of natural rights you are willing to take away from other people, rights that cause absolutely no harm to anyone, but your right to endanger society with accidental-suicide-machines should remain untouchable.

Anecdotes and slogans aside, you don't know what your talking about.

ditto