I'd hit it. Dead or alive.

He should have been aborted.


-Ness Gaydoll

Nice that Ness was able to absolutely conclude what the motive was when the article clearly states:

"Police have not determined a motive in the slaying but said it appeared to stem from a personal dispute between King and the suspect. Keith and Totten declined to elaborate. But several students at the south Oxnard campus said King and his alleged assailant had a falling out stemming from King's sexual orientation....We've heard that and a lot of other things," Keith said. "But I can't say what the motive is until we finish our interviews."

That said, the kid should be tried as an adult for 1st or 2nd degree murder.

Go easy on Ness Don't he lives in Chapel Hill, thats enough to screw up anyones head.

absolutely conclude what the motive was when the article clearly states:

It's called Ockham's Razor. Plus, I'm guessing that the students have a better idea about what's going on than the police.

he lives in Chapel Hill, thats enough to screw up anyones head.

Won't he be in for a surprise in prison!

I do support gay issues. Having a gay past, I do understand the plight of homosexuals and the "gay lifestyle".

I have noticed my views on "all things gay" don't quite mesh with many straights (who are homophobic) and gay activists (who aren't always supportive of people who are gay but choose to reject that way of life for personal reasons and especially religious ones)

I believe laws should be passed totally protecting gays from discrimination and full legal protection of gay relationships.

However, I DO have a problem with people coming "out" when they are in High School or younger. They usually aren't quite ready for the pressure and besides, there is the possibility they aren't even gay at all. Sometimes men just have a male identity problem and it gets all confused in their head.

I feel sorry for this boy. Sounds like he didn't really know how he was "supposed to act" since after all "I'm gay", he said.

The problem is very young people shouldn't be having sex with anyone, and that includes the same sex.

Oops, for some reason the end of my last post got deleted. I was going to say that I'm glad that Chapel Hill is a very gay friendly community. A lot of kids who have been tormented in high school come there for that very reason.

Plus, it's a great school.

Hey don't bag on Chapel Hill. There are 2 Men coinkadinkly both named Roy that I would love to Meet. 1 I would tell Him thanks for Shitting upon Kansas and the other Roy I would just LOVE to take instruction from.

Larry Mohr

Can't argue with you Bill, but if a boy decides to show up in a ballgown, that's no justification for any kind of threatening or violent behavior on anyone's part. Any kid who didn't like it should remind himself what he's in school for, and stick his nose back in a textbook. That would solve his immediate problem without creating any more for anyone.

By the way, whaddya want to bet that Teechur knew how bad this kid was getting harrassed, and by whom, and did nothing?

P.S.: I fully agree with whoever said that this shooter is in for a real shock in stir. He's about to learn more about man-man action than he ever thought possible. Call it poetic justice.

Won't he be in for a surprise in prison!

THIS.

My only question is whether this kid was a Baptist or an Evangelical.

DNRTA.

Be Well.

Mary,

"whaddya want to bet that Teechur knew how bad this kid was getting harrassed, and by whom, and did nothing?"

You wanna know why? The God hating atheists in the ACLU who think anyone gay should be "out" and believe no one has the "right" to remain in the closet..."OUT'M ALL". Teachers are afraid to speak up these days lest they lose their teaching credentials.

I've said more than once. The Democratic Party needs an identity separate from the ACLU. While the ACLU has done some great things, it's the extremists that make give them a bad name. They can't quite accept the fact that Christians have the right to practice their faith and there is such a thing as morality (yea ... I said it). They believe their ideas of no God should prevail in schools, etc.

Ask most republians "what a democrat believes" and more often than not, they'll list ACLU talking points.

That's my rant.

Mary,

Touche on the "man-man action".

"I DO have a problem with people coming "out" when they are in High School or younger."

Why do "you" have a problem with when a stranger decides to tell the world that he's gay? People should do that whenever they feel comfortable. If some 16 year old feels like telling his parents and friends that he's gay, who are you to set some sort of age limit on it?

"They can't quite accept the fact that Christians have the right to practice their faith and there is such a thing as morality (yea ... I said it). They believe their ideas of no God should prevail in schools, etc.


That's bullshit, Bill. The ACLU has defended Christian and other religion's rights numerous times.

Who Would Jesus Shoot?

Mike Huckabee will be along to tell us this was what the Founding Fathers wanted.

If that "stranger" who is underage is being influenced by people who aren't, yea I have a problem.

I agree with Joe. Heterosexual kids "come out" as being straight whenever they want. To expect homosexuals to behave differently is discriminatory.

But I can't say what the motive is until we finish our interviews.

The motive is obvious but the police have to follow procedure.

Wot, does Bowa think the kid was killed for his political views?

SNARF!

Be Well.

Clothing in schools should be regulated. I am all for school uniforms.
We don't know what kind of strict background this kid who did the shooting came from or how he was able to handle a situation like that at his age. Teenagers are filled with hormones and testesterone and are not prepared to emotionally deal with many issues. NO WAY should the gay kid have been allowed to come to school dressed like he was going to a gay Halloween party. He was flaunting it in everyone's face. As far as his being gay, the school should never allow gay kids to be teased and taunted simply because they happen to be homosexual but one of this radical costume crap at school.

This is a junior high school -- not some gay drag queen ball.
These kids are there to LEARN.

one = none

BillJohnson:

Let me see if I understand this correctly.

If someone is pointing a gun at your head, you think I'd be justified in taking the time to go over my life's history to see if doing something about your plight might have a negative impact on me?

Or would you prefer that I knock the gun out of the fucker's hand or call the police or something so that you might live, and then deal with whatever problems it might cause me to do that?

And I second Bill OReilly on the ACLU.

Bill,

And they've clamped down on far more. Just walk around most High Schools and count the number of crosses on lapels or classroom walls.

I'm not talking about teachers who preach. Just simply letting young people know you are a believer isn't even permitted.

"lapels or classroom walls"

Two completely different places.

Mary,

"BillJohnson:

Let me see if I understand this correctly.

If someone is pointing a gun at your head, you think I'd be justified in taking the time to go over my life's history to see if doing something about your plight might have a negative impact on me?

Or would you prefer that I knock the gun out of the fucker's hand or call the police or something so that you might live, and then deal with whatever problems it might cause me to do that? "

Huh? I don't understand.

If someone was pointing a gun at my head, I'd be justified to do absolutely anything to defend myself. I don't understand what you mean.

"They believe their ideas of no God should prevail in schools, etc."

That's a total bastardization of that position.

ACLUers don't believe anyone's God should take precedence. When you talk of "God" in school, you're not talking about His Noodly Goodness...you're wanting your God and your God alone to be taught. But the minute you take tax dollars, and teach about Jesus but not Buddha or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, you're endorsing one religion over another. Um...sorry...not in publicly-supported schools. Save it for the parochial schools, and the Sunday schools, and the churches, and the homes, and the playgrounds, and the backyard BBQs, and the....

"ACLU talking points."

Believing in civil liberties? In the dignity of a human being? In the rights of everyone instead of the rights of any one? How dare they?

Bill J.

I'm with you on the ACLU - the anti-AmericanCLU
They continually do everything they can to destroy this country's heritage, culture, traditions and beliefs. They are a joke.

Typically I would disagree with Chris' post on regulation of clothing in schools, but the more I think about it, he does have a point. The stuff some kids wear to school has become really obnoxious. Some kids treat it like a fashion show, some kids try to dress like they are in gangs, etc. It is distracting and unnecessary. I think a uniform policy in all public schools would show kids the importance of professionalism at an early age, and it would probably cut down on unfortunate incidents like this one where students obviously take advantage of the leniency. I think to express yourself via your clothing is outweighed by the negative impact the freedom to wear whatever you want to school has on the learning environment.

"And they've clamped down on far more. "

They haven't "clamped down". They've defended the separation of church and state.

should say "I think the freedom to express yourself.

"I'm with you on the ACLU - the anti-AmericanCLU
They continually do everything they can to destroy this country's heritage, culture, traditions and beliefs. They are a joke."

You're the joke. The ACLU defends civil liberties. That's what they do, and they do it for everyone, including you.

Zat,

Ok...count the number of crosses on lapels...

Forget the classrooms.

I haven't done a study on this, but I'd be willing to lay odds the majority of professing Christians hide it in school these days.

Might would make a good survey.

"Huh? I don't understand."

Bill:

I'll say.

Dan,

We've gone down that path numerous times.

Atheists who believe in "nothing" don't accept the idea their set of beliefs aren't, more or less, another religion, of sorts.

So...it's a waste of time.

I'm not proposing teaching Adam and Eve in science class. They just don't accept the fact that their "facts" aren't proven either.

The history of this planet and of mankind is not known for certain by anyone.

There's different theories and divine intervention is one of them. Of course, it most likely belongs in a religion class, but it does belong in school.

"There's(sic) different theories"

"My imaginary friend did it" isn't one.

"3rd grade boy wants to go to school as a girl."

And the problem is?

The other kids will accept it or not accept it, the kid will be happy or not happy, and whatever comes of the situation will come of it.

The only issue I see here is that a few other kids may need a reminder or two to mind their own business and get back to their studies.

Zat,

By all means. The purpose of school is to educate.

My only point is this. Atheists claim Christian teachers aren't muzzled, when I believe they are.

I've never claimed to believe teachers have the "right" to preach. You wanna bet if atheist teachers manage to share their opinions with young people?

As much as I am against using public dollars to fund private schools, if public schools don't figure out this problem, that's where it's headed.

What does one's religion, or lack of it, have to do with teaching algebra?

To begin with, the kid was not gay, he was in all honestly probably a transvestite or a transexual. Gays (or those I have met and before anyone gets uppity my Godfather is gay) dress pretty normal for men (or women, okay maybe lesbians dress "butch") okay okay actually gay men dress far better than straight guys, but I have yet to see one parading down the street in high heels make up and boots, UNLESS THEY WERE A TRANSVESTITE, two different things, a teenage transvestite expecting to be able to dress that way in high school is, I am afraid to say it, just like an Emo or a Goth ASKING for trouble. Do what you need to do to graduate high school and then if you are so inclined head to Vegas and do your whole Tina Turner thing. Gays do not dress like tarts, we are mixing apples and oranges here.

"Atheists claim Christian teachers aren't muzzled, when I believe they are."

Both statements are incorrect.

"Most scientists I know don't care enough about religion even to call themselves atheists."
-- Steven Weinberg

But give a Moslem a prayer room in a school ...

Dan,

"ACLU talking points."
Believing in civil liberties? In the dignity of a human being? In the rights of everyone instead of the rights of any one? How dare they?"

Interesting you went there. I've always had a problem with people who claim they believe in the "dignity of a human being" and support aborton on demand.

I looked back through your posts and I see you're pro-choice. I've never understood how people who support killing children can ever talk about "human dignity", but they do.

"3rd grade boy wants to go to school as a girl."


I'd hit it.

He should have been aborted.


-Ness Gadol

Billjohnson

Killing children is illegal. Where do you live?

BB,

Yea...I know...they aren't children.

These human shaped pieces of meat aren't human. They're not people. They aren't alive.

Live in denial.

How else can people who get abortions live with themselves?

That must be how they do it.

"My imaginary friend did it" isn't one.

Posted by Zatoichi

Found that out when I was about 4. Damn cookie jar.

"Found that out when I was about 4."

Posted by northguy3

7 here.


Apparently most of them never get it; Why democracy never works.

I have no great love for the gays in the community and neither do I harbor any animosity. The sexual assignment of homo sapiens is not my responsibility.

The cold blooded killing of a human because of their sexual identity is wrong.

In the not so distant past I was quite different. Openly hostile and nasty. I found ot just how many humans that this attitude made me hate, WOW!

For now and as far as the distant future is visible, taking each person for his behavior in any interaction with myself.

I am not out to convert all of the gay world and have found out that for the most part they don't try to convert me. In the few instances that the subject has come up, a simple, "I am straight" will settle any issue.

If you carry around a lot of hate, you will find places to use it.

THIS.

My only question is whether this kid was a Baptist or an Evangelical.

DNRTA.

Be Well.


I can see that spud has been spending way too much time at fark.com. Picked up on the abbreviations and everything.

That was a pathetic excuse for a troll.

Instead of focusing on what kids should and should not be wearing to school, people should focus on what children need to learn about how to treat other people. The focus on clothes and when one should be openly game is just blaming the victim.

Student Shot for Being Gay

Oh good! One down, a few million to go. ;)

Gosh, I thought it was Larry Craig for a minute.

I'd like to know where Greg King was during this time when his son was going to junior high school wearing ball gowns and lipstick.

The boy's father should have put his foot down and told his son to dress like the other males in his school no matter what his particular sexual orientation. Sounds like papa was a pussy.

this is one of the saddest commentaries of our times. God help our nation. we know where and how we've gone wrong, but we're too stubborn to go back.

unfortunately, there are people so filled with hate that it consumes them and affects innocent people.

told his son to dress like the other males in his school no matter what his particular sexual orientation.

You're blaming the father for not forcing his son to hide his sexuality instead of blaming the assclown who shot the kid in the head out of hate?

You usually post pretty cogent material but that last one didn't make a damn bit of sense.

"The boy's father should have put his foot down and told his son to dress like the other males in his school no matter what his particular sexual orientation. Sounds like papa was a pussy."

Gee Chris, that's very insightful of you. Maybe the kid's parents were divorced and he only saw his dad once a week while he was wearing "normal" clothes. Maybe the kid didn't listen to his dad and left for school early to change into his fag clothes in the bathroom.

But Chris knows better than some pussy of a dad. Do you have kids, Chris?

Check up on the sheer numbers of gay men and women on this dirt ball.

Can you really just hate that many people?

I am not gay and do not care to have openly gay activity around me. To that end I avoid locations were this is likely to happen.

In all truth open straight sex in public is for the most part stupid. The exceptions being very creative and interesting.

The current population of dirt ball Earth is thought to be around 6.4 billion persons. (trolls not counted) If the figure of 25 to over 30 percent of the people on earth are gay, that is one hell of a lot of none-self replicating humans. Don't hate them. Let them fail to breed and become extinct naturally.

Ness,

"You're blaming the father for not forcing his son to hide his sexuality instead of blaming the assclown who shot the kid in the head out of hate?"

Ness, you're hitting on a difficult, emotional and complicated issue.

How do you tell dads..."ummmm...there's a chance your son chose to live gay because you failed him as a father"?

I'm not saying that's the case with all gays or that this is even a proven fact.

However, I will most certainly say this.

I am convinced a percentage of men who are living gay may or may not have chosen that lifestyle IF they had been more properly mentored by their father and/or by male peers.

That's a tough arguement.

Gay people prefer to believe they were "born that way" and that their environment had nothing to do with it. Well...I guess that takes all responsibility off of everyone...now doesn't it.

But...what if parenting (especially by fathers) DOES play a factor in some men becoming gay?

Ness...there is something to be said for this dad stepping in and making his son (that is being a father) not do all these things to attract attention. It is the role of parents to set boundaries. That is our job.

Bill-

You openly admit that it is "not a proven fact." Yet you are "convinced" of it. Why? Any proof at all?

NESS

NESS

You're blaming the father for not forcing his son to hide his sexuality instead of blaming the assclown who shot the kid in the head out of hate?

Of course I blame the kid who killed this boy.
I already said I didn't know his home situation. Obviously some detrimental atmosphere was in his home environment to make him want to actually kill this boy and it most likely came from his parents.

As for forcing the gay kid into "hiding his sexuality" well, that's a bit of a joke. A boy wearing lipstick and ball gowns to a junior high school goes waaaay beyond his just being open about his sexuality and/or feeling free to express some feminine mannerisms. This boy was doing way more than not hiding his sexuality. He was flaunting it openly in the other boys' faces -- big time.

Don't tell me the gay kid wasn't aware of how his dress and actions affected the other boys and the hostility it promoted. Where were the teachers? Where were his parents? ONE adult had to have seen him dressed like that and also had to have been aware of how the other boys were reacting to it. If the kid changed clothes away from home to wear this crap at school then the teachers should have told his parents. At the very least, the teachers and the school should have enforced a dress code obeyed by ALL the students.

The school was so intimidated by PCBS (politically correct bull shit) they now have one dead student and one student who may just as well be dead.

whoops

only one "Ness"

and italics should have stopped after the first paragraph

Keith, umm...where do you think gay people come from? Ummm...like...they aren't a different species or something. So, the only way to make them "extinct" is to prevent heterosexual couples from having children.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

men who are living gay may or may not have chosen that lifestyle

There is much evidence for a genetic/biological basis for homosexuality. Concordance rates for monozygotic twins are about 52%, whereas dizygotic twins are only around 22%.

"In all truth open straight sex in public is for the most part stupid."

I had to re-post this instant classic. For the "most part" meaning that sex in public is sometimes okay with you? But gay sex obviously wouldn't be, right? 'Cause that's just icky.

And I believe the widely accepted percentage of homosexuals is something like three or four percent, certainly nowhere near 30 percent.

Bill, a note on your "choice" to not "be gay." Bro, you are still gay, that is, until you no longer have sexual arousal by other males, and instead start watching NASCAR and getting a tribal tatt around your upper bicep.

Well...isn't that how "we" all are. We choose to believe things based on limited knowledge or experiences.

The whole nature vs nuture thing is still being argued. It probably varies from person to person, anyway.

Not all people are gay for the same reason.

From what I've seen, an awful lot of gay men come from similar backgrounds. Not all, but a very strange and large percentage of gay men lacked significant male figures in their lives as boys.

So...what does that mean? Is there some kind of correlation there? I think so. And I'm not alone in my opinion.

Of course, there are books supporting a variety of theories.

However ... .I know a lot about the whole gay thing. I'm not your typical gay person. I don't buy into the typical "gay agenda" (that doesn't exist ... of course) and I don't agree with gay haters (who are sometimes closet-cases themselves).

Gay people have always been around and always will be. Some Christians are having a hard time figuring out how to deal with it. Certainly the US as a nation has a long way to go.

Actually, sometimes I think it just doesn't matter why people are gay. There're here and we need to treat them as human beings with dignity.

However...it might be nice to understand why people choose the gay lifestyle. Gays claim they had no choice. Certainly, I personally can't remember when I realised I prefer men or that I'm more interested in guys than girls. I didn't chose it. However, that doesn't mean environment didn't play a factor in my being this way.

Eva...I couldn't agree more. Some people say, "since I don't have sex with men I'm not gay"...yea...sure...you're straight.

That is yet ANOTHER heavily argued part of homosexuality. The whole label thing. If I don't have gay sex, then I'm not gay....so some say...sure...

Well...I'm done...it's late and I'm tired.

He was flaunting it openly in the other boys' faces -- big time.

So what? The straight kid smooching his girl in the hallway is doing even more than just dressing gay.

Wot, does Bowa think the kid was killed for his political views?

I don't know...could be a lot of things and his gayness was just one part of a much deeper hatred between the boys. Sounds like the gay kid was an in your face alpha-male type and he was probably pissing alot of people off in areas that had nothing to do with sexuality as well

He obviouslu got imto it with the wrong guy --- and that guy should be charged with murder as an adult.

"They just don't accept the fact that their "facts" aren't proven either."

The difference is with one approach, any provable "facts" can take the place of other perceived 'facts", whereas the other approach, any provable "facts" which disagree with the already accepted dogma are quickly undermined or ignored.

"There's different theories and divine intervention is one of them. "

And so is the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Are you ready to spend your tax dollars teaching your kids about that "different theory"?

"I've always had a problem with people who claim they believe in the "dignity of a human being" and support aborton on demand."

And I"ve always had a problem with men who believe they can draw the line of law inside a young woman's vagina.

From what I've seen, an awful lot of gay men come from similar backgrounds.

Sounds like more solipsism. Not surprising here at the drudge retort.

Maybe the kid was shot for being a douchebag that happened to be a flamer?

The simple fact is that if you are different in high school, regardless if it's because you have long hair, blue hair, you're gay, fat, have thick glasses, etc you're going to get noticed. Anyone with half a brain knows that being "different" is going to draw attention. This kid knew it as well as the rest of us.
He didn't deserve to get killed over it, but let's not pretend this thread wouldn't be hopping if the kid just got a simple beat down.

It's akin to the broad dressing provocatively getting raped, right TN dems?

Not wanting to sound as if I'm approving of this idiotic act, its not possible to look at this murderous incident with out remembering that this rather stupid young man rubbed his choices in everyones face.

A counselor could and should have made this young gay aware that his behavior was almost certain to cause some reciprocation's. The whole shebang was from inception poorly handled.

As thing went, it would be almost certain for him to be subject to 1 class A ass kicking. Lets face it not a very bright move.

And Keith chimes in with yet another asinine POV.

So, people being who they are, or expressing themselves as they see fit -- you know, the "freedom" we are supposedly hated for -- deserve to be beaten because they are "rubbing it in their faces."

Thus, while you don't condone murder in this case, per se, intolerance is just peachy.

Please, dismount the monkey bars and get to study hall.

EVASHGOUKI

I seem to be missing the "asinine" POV.

I was a kid as were you, this kids act didn't apparently violate any rules but even a moron could see there was great potential for an act that would most likely involve violence.

I don't see this as just a small difference. Rather the you man was just a bit over the top. A counselor could have explained the more probable rather than possible chance of response. The act of murder in this or any case is off the scale.

Can you honestly say, agree or not, that something like a butt kicking wasn't likely?

Evash,
I'm free to burn a flag at a NASCAR race but that doesn't insulate me from the ass kicking that is sure to follow.
There are consequences for your actions. That (as I mentioned previously) doesn't justify what happened to the freak at the high school, but it doesnt take Dick Tracey to figure out what led to his demise does it?

Go where a white sheet and hood in the ghetto and see what happens to you.
High school kids aren't exactly accepting individuals. If this kid that wore womens clothing wasn't smart enough to figure that out then it was only a matter of time until he died at a railroad crossing, playing with fire crackers, or being the number 2 guy in al queada.

There are consequences for your actions

Did you see the way he was dressed?

He wuz askin' fer it!!!

Wow, yer "blame the victim" meanderings for "understanding" the murder of this gay kid is exactly the same as the one you use fer rape victims only with one letter changed.

Up here in Canada recently, a typical thug-like bully was harrassing a supposedly gay student for wearing a pink shirt to school. Instead of joining in his little reindeer game, other students took it upon themselves to support the guy and the next day at school there were a legion of pink shirted students. Peer pressure can work for good or for evil. Life is choice.

Back in our day such intolerance and hate was rife and the rule not the exception. Times change. Attitudes change. People change.

It's called evolution, 101.

You should look into it.

I blame the mnurderous thug here.
I blame the school for not doing more.
I don't blame the student.

We don't just evolve physically, Chair.

We evolve morally and spiritually as well.

Some of us anyway.

Fundamentalist faux Christians in the US are the biggest drag on the process of moral and spiritual evolution I can think of.

They hold the rest back.

The fact that they do it in name of so-called morality or so-called Christian Values and label it "social conservatism" rather than the more correct term "Immoral Antisocial UnChristian Hate" is as ironic as it is hypocritical.

Betcha dollars to donuts this kid comes from a fundie family.

Either that or he's just a run of the mill psychopath.

Hard to tell the difference some days.

Be Well.

Pud,
Did you just rent some horrible John Hughes movie or something? Nobody in their right mind believes that a school would rally around some dude wearing womens' clothing.
I realize people like you (clowns that entertain children, while wearing makeup so as not to be identified) wish your perversions were accepted, but they aren't.

If I went to a ghetto dressed like a KKK member and got beat up you'd be the first loser in line to say I deserved it, and you'd be right. Newsflash, talking in the 3rd person(and being a self loathing canadian that is addicted to what americans do and say) and dressing like a bitch will result in an ass kicking. This kid unfortunately didn't hide behind a potato persona and he actually owned his fucked up way of living. You on the other hand?

As thing went, it would be almost certain for him to be subject to 1 class A ass kicking.

Which is fucked up.

You are a sick, twisted and disgusting excuse for a human being.

How dare you say such a thing? My sincere hope is that you are locked up for some non-violent crime before you murder or injure an innocent child simply for being gay or transgender.

You're not funny. You're sad.

Jenn B.
Portland, Oregon

..My only question is whether this kid was a Baptist or an Evangelical.
DNRTA.
Be Well.
Posted by dethspud at 2008-02-16 06:02 PM

OMG - that's the first thing I imagined - his family are right-wing Christian conservatives. We'll find out eventually.

Clothing in schools should be regulated. I am all for school uniforms.
We don't know what kind of strict background this kid who did the shooting came from or how he was able to handle a situation like that at his age. Teenagers are filled with hormones and testesterone and are not prepared to emotionally deal with many issues. NO WAY should the gay kid have been allowed to come to school dressed like he was going to a gay Halloween party. He was flaunting it in everyone's face. As far as his being gay, the school should never allow gay kids to be teased and taunted simply because they happen to be homosexual but one of this radical costume crap at school.
This is a junior high school -- not some gay drag queen ball.
These kids are there to LEARN.
Posted by CalifChris at 2008-02-16 06:23 PM

I reluctantly agree - uniforms are the best solution, but I'd like to get the opinion of people who've been through that education system first.

I don't agree with your reasoning though - replace "gay drag queen ball" with "MTV after hours rap-fu dance party" and it's all relative. Some kids dress like hookers, others like Erkle.

The uniform doesn't descriminate - that's the military's job.

101,

About the pink shirt thing, I recall reading an article about 2 boys in a school who wanted to support a gay boy being picked on. They decided to dress like the gay boy.

They didn't mean to start up this thing. It just happened. The word got out and it became a school wide thing. I read about it.

Spud,

What do you mean he asked for it?

Do you believe if a girl dresses very seductively, she is asking to be raped?

All this presumption the boy came from a religous family or something. I'd be willing to lay odds he came from a fatherless home.

I don't mean to imply that boys raised by single moms don't turn out well. However, I'd bet quite often the more balanced boys had an uncle or some other significant male figure to mentor him.

Just my opinion...

A point that has also been missed was that the article doesn't clearly state that the victim was dressing as a woman. High-heeled boots doesn't mean "pumps," and quite a few boys wear some type of makeup and paint their nails (black, usually).

Death penalty for being different. Plain and simple. And the suggestion that this was about anything else is ridiculous. How long do you think this kid was the victim of abuse before this event?

I respect people with the courage to be true to themselves, not the other way around. How many of you would have the balls this kid did?

Billjohnson;

You are a ... Moron!

BillJohnson

So a strong male figure would have "cured" his gayness? I wonder how you explain the gayness of Cheneys daughter, or the bisexuality of W Bush? Think maybe Cheney is gay under his rough exterior? How about HW---well you may have a point there, his pedophilia is well documented. But ex Presidents get some "perks" if they swing that way it seems.

Just my opinion...

Hey Dumper, how did the kids treat you when you got all dolled up? Do the adults treat you nicely when you put on mommy's clothes?

BB,

Not "cure", prevent.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think there is 1 single reason men choose other men for sex. This is touchy. How does one talk about ways to prevent homosexuality without offending gays? It sounds like an insult. Well...sorry about that. There's nothing wrong with learning as much about it as we can.

Not to mention...well...I think being straight would be preferable.

Yea...I know what you mean. Isn't this one heck of a gay administration?

I can't believe it's been hide so well. Maybe someday we'll know more (if we're interested) in the shenanigans going on the White House during W's tenture.

101...the incident took place in a junior high environment, not high school. I'm not picking nits, but I don't believe that the kid would have been murdered if it were high school, but most likely the incident would have fallen into your scenario of a thuggish tormenting with or without him getting beat up in the bargain.

Speaking from first-hand experience, children will always find some way to act out learned behavior dominance games. There were strict uniform requirements in the catholic high school I went to, but when the Beatles broke and some guys started sporting mop tops, the jocks & greaser crewcut crowd made coming to school a daily gauntlet to survive without getting smacked around. I should also note that I got the distinct impression that the priests and nuns encouraged the behavior.

Except for the beach, the rest of Oxnard is a toilet, I can see this happening there.

Oxnard is in the process of going through what a host of small cities in Los Angeles county morphed into 60 years ago...the slow, incremental transition from a predominately farming and livestock community to light manufacturing and inevitable resultant suburbanization. In 30 years, Oxnard will be just another indistinguishable SoCal stucco nightmare suburb boxed by tacky strip malls and gas stations.

It doesn't matter where the kid was or what grade he was in, he shouldn't have been murdered. Nobody is suggesting he should have been. What is being said is that if you present yourself as a freak (which dressing in womens clothing and attending school most certainly qualifies), then one should expect negative repercussions.

Every action will spur a reaction. Anyone that is surprised that a queen would be hassled at school is a moron. As I earlier stated, had this been a simple assault as opposed to a murder this thread would still be hopping with tools acting surprised that people aren't tolerant.

DUTCH, I agree. It is almost there.

Chair...no argument here. I just believe that the kid that pulled the trigger wasn't old enough to properly know why he did it. We live in a time when the media is saturated with images, fictional and otherwise, of people who solve their problems by just shooting anyone they believe is responsible. I'm also somewhat convinced that the kid comes from a home environment that is perhaps heavily influenced by gang banger ethics. What do you expect, Jake? It's Oxnard. (with apologies to Robert Towne)

The kid that dressed like a woman was an outward freak. The kid that shot him was a repressed freak.
If he didn't shoot the queen it would have been a mall full of christmas shoppers.

Chair,

So "freaks" of all kinds get beat up or otherwise harassed. Statement of fact.

But, what about tolerance? What with our hegemony of Christian principles and all that, somehow it seems to be lacking in this great land.

Shouldn't we be striving for a society where "freaks" aren't freaks at all, but just humans who express themselves in a way that's distinct from the herd?

At what point will we NOT expect them to get a beating?

When we get there in our minds, that's when the harassment will stop.

Chairborne you are hereby ordered to watch a minimum of three Molly Ringwald movies in hopes that you will become more in touch with your feminine side, just like good old J. Edgar. Just stay away from junior highs chools.

Regime,
If you haven't noticed, kids are cruel, and they grow up to be cruel people.
Whether it's due to the length of hair, the brand of jeans, sexual preference, looks, weight, etc there will always be "freaks". You can't possibly think that it will ever change can you?

You can strive all you want, but it 100% acceptance and tolerance will never happen.

Evash,
I think you would have been better served giving that advice to Spud before the RCMP actually ordered him to do it.

Chair,

Sure I noticed. Participated on both ends of the spectrum. Perhaps it's in our DNA to discriminate against difference, for the "good" of the species in general (some atavistic, animal instinct).

Yet, we're supposed to be higher beings, right? Awareness of our own mortality, consciousness, etc...

The moon is pretty far away. Yet, we eventually walked on it.

That's what all those nursery books about little engines that could are all about: persistence. So, we just need to focus, and keep striving.

If you believe you'll never make it, you won't.

Egads Eva! I can't get the image out of my head of 101 taking the place of Malcolm McDowell in Clockwork Orange, strapped to a chair with his eyes propped open with diabolical headgear, forced to watch Molly Ringwald movies. That's worse than water boarding. Isn't there a provision in the Geneva Convention prohibiting the usage of Molly Ringwald movies as an instrument of torture?

Then again, there is the off chance that he might quite enjoy the experience.

This is sad all the way around. For a kid to hate so much at such a young age makes me believe only one thing - he had to learn it somewhere. I'm guessing this child learned his hatred from the place where most hatred is bred - at home, from his parents.

Now because of that, he will spend a large portion of his life in prison learning more hatred and another family will mourn the loss of their son because they believed he would be safe in the classroom.

In cases like this, the parents of the shooter should be investigated to see if they share part of the blame. If they do, then they should share part of the punishment. So many times on this board I've read comments where people blame the educational system or the ACLU for the crappy actions of criminals or society but no one looks at the ones who hold the greatest influence over others - the parents who raised them.

If you find a homophobic or racist child chances are you'll find a homophobic or racist parent teaching them irrational hatred. There are times when I hear the voices of my parents cry out their hatred in my mind. Those times I let my better self guide me and I silence them. I will not teach hatred, those younger than myself deserve better than that.

I am by no ways in support of the kid who shot the other. I think it is about time we start making gay people understand that they need help themselves.
I believe that being gay is some sort of dissorder and a choice.
Gay men hate straight man and they always looking for ways to control them..
Let me tell you something in Iran they stone gay men to death in a public square.
There is a lot of homesexuality in the muslim community but individuals are not supposed to exhibit the life style in public.
We can not make laws to protect every single life style in this country.
Christians are hated more than any other people because they say and believe in what is right, unlike ethiests who will tolerate any lifestyles even if they lead to distraction and death.
Homesexuality has a higher percentage of HIV infection but If we were to mention so it would be refered as a "hate crime"
Let us send the homesexuals to the therapy they need...and the world would be a better place..

Ooooo...the Stupid is very strong with this one. Quick, get a midichlorian count.

Holy shit, CMSA1R...where to begin...

Yes, gay people need to help themselves. Let's get all junior highschool gay kids Kevlar helmets on the double.

Now, tell us all when you made a choice to be straight. You know, when you were confronted by your feelings of same-sex attraction, and how you battled them back to become the bastion of hetero-ness that you obviously have become. Praise Jesus!

Yes, gay men hate straight men. And you know this...how? A link to a scientific study would be most beneficial. Thanks in advance!

So, Iran is a backwards, fucked up country, so if they kill gays, that's what we should do? Wait...what?

Ah, so the onus is on the people most likely to be the victim of discriminatory violence to hide who they are. Yeah, that's way better than teaching people to be tolerant of others. They hate us for our freedom, after all.

Christians are hated? Really. Shit, if I had known that beforehand, I never would have wished so many people a Merry Christmas this past December. Who knew my life was in such jeaopardy! Thanks again!

Ethiests (sic) will tolerate any lifestyle of others. Batards! Complete fucking bastards!

You just mentioned it. So, shall I call the hate-crime police now, or after you've eaten supper. Just trying to be thoughtful.

Ah...the finale: the "therapy they need." Would that be 12 gauge, stones, or electroshock?

Oh, damn, I read a little more of CMSA1R's posts on other threads. My apologies: I didn't realize you were so "special."

So you're black, eh? Right on!

When did you chose that?

You know, in this country, your people couldn't vote, kiss a white woman, or even sit at the front of the bus not that long ago. Thank god you all got the therapy you needed and "protected" yourselves with that white face paint.

Fucking moron.

..My only question is whether this kid was a Baptist or an Evangelical.
DNRTA.
Be Well.
Posted by dethspud at 2008-02-16 06:02 PM

OMG - that's the first thing I imagined - his family are right-wing Christian conservatives. We'll find out eventually.


Knee-jerk anti-Christian alert.

Someone should have told that kid handguns are illegal at school. Then he wouldn't have brought the gun. Right thats how gun laws work right?

I saw fry the little murderer. He made a choice, now he faces CONCIQUENCES of said choice. Cold hard reality. We can abort babies cause we dont consider them full humans yet, well guess what I dont consider little murdering hate mongers Human. Abort unwanted babies, and Fry unwanted murderers.

Be consistant.

quote from story: Schools must teach that we may not like one another, but we must respect one another."

What about parents teaching their kids to respect one another? School try, but the hatred often comes in droves from other sources.

Also, what is the school supposed to do? Really. If someone is calling a kid gay slurs, what can the school do? They can put the kid in counseling sessions (limited resources, very) or call his parents (I'm sure they will take care of it) or perhaps suspend him (doubt it - he has to actually DO something to be suspended.) See, everyone thinks the schools should FIX the HATRED and BULLYING. They CAN'T.

The school's job is to teach MATH and ENGLISH. Morals are supposed to be taught at home and CHURCH.
Seriously.

What about parents teaching their kids to respect one another? School try, but the hatred often comes in droves from other sources.
Yeah, like their parents (either actively or through ignorance)!

Also, what is the school supposed to do? Really. If someone is calling a kid gay slurs, what can the school do? They can put the kid in counseling sessions (limited resources, very) or call his parents (I'm sure they will take care of it) or perhaps suspend him (doubt it - he has to actually DO something to be suspended.) See, everyone thinks the schools should FIX the HATRED and BULLYING. They CAN'T.

They can't fix hatred, sure, but they can fix bullying - they can throw the dickweeds out of the school, same as they do if you're caught red-handed with a joint or stealing or beating on someone's head or whatever.

The school's job is to teach MATH and ENGLISH. Morals are supposed to be taught at home and CHURCH.
Seriously.

That's right, which is why disruptive morons need to get thrown out of school, so the people who actually want to be there can learn!

The major reason why schools and schoool boards won't suspend or kick out homophobes is that they are quivering with fear that right-wing talk radio, churches, and/or lawyer money will be unleashed upon them. Either that or they genuinely don't care. Whether this is true or a conspiracy theory is irrelevant, because it boils down to cowardice on the part of schools and school boards.

There are many other equally deserving grounds for expulsion that schools will not pursue, due to fear of political interference, or "human rights" lawyers hired by rich parents. They should either get on the stick or get out of the business of education.

The school's job is to teach MATH and ENGLISH.
Yes, and some History and Geography wouldn't hurt.

The major reason why schools and schoool boards won't suspend or kick out homophobes is that they are quivering with fear that right-wing talk radio, churches, and/or lawyer money will be unleashed upon them. Either that or they genuinely don't care. Whether this is true or a conspiracy theory is irrelevant, because it boils down to cowardice on the part of schools and school boards.

There are many other equally deserving grounds for expulsion that schools will not pursue, due to fear of political interference, or "human rights" lawyers hired by rich parents. They should either get on the stick or get out of the business of education.


Nice job, Buford...I couldn't have written it any better.

"I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Posted by evashogouki"

I thought everyone on Drudge took crazy pills. All the available evidence points to it.

"He would come to school in high-heeled boots, makeup, jewelry and painted nails -- the whole thing," said Michael Sweeney, 13, an eighth-grader. "That was freaking the guys out."




Freaking them out? Why? Can't people just live and let live? How about just ignoring the kid if it "freaked you out" so much.

Who the fuck taught this shitstain that you just kill someone when they make you uncomfortable?

This story is fucking horrible. I read the headline and the rest of the story while my mouth just kinda hung open in shock at what I was reading.

I'd like to think that they would prosecute him as an adult but I just read an article about those two kids from Kentucky (i think) that pulled the fire alarm and then took up sniper positions and gunned down students and teachers as they left the school. They're both out and one has been in trouble with the law constantly since.

I'd like to think that they would prosecute him as an adult but I just read an article about those two kids from Kentucky (i think) that pulled the fire alarm and then took up sniper positions and gunned down students and teachers as they left the school. They're both out and one has been in trouble with the law constantly since.




Posted by COMMONSENSE at 2008-02-18 03:00 AM | Reply

I believe You are refering to those from Jonesboro Arkansas if memory serves Me correctly.

Larry Mohr

You can strive all you want, but it 100% acceptance and tolerance will never happen.

Posted by 101Chairborne

Not with THAT attitude, mister!

That's right, which is why disruptive morons need to get thrown out of school, so the people who actually want to be there can learn!


Posted by bufordtjustice at 2008-02-17 10:17 PM | Reply |


Don't you believe a dude wearing fish net stockings and dresses is disruptive?

Why did his parents let him go to school in high heels and wearing make-up?These are 8th graders and they don't understand the whole gay thing.Hell i'm 40 and I don't get it.I'm suprised this kid hasn't been beat up many times before this.He probably has and the school and his parents did nothing to fix the problem.All I know is when I was in 8th grade and if a male classmate came to school dressed like that it better be spirit week.I guess we could give all these young boys riddelin and de-ball them so they can't act out.This would make all the libs very happy. Obviously killing someone because of this is way over the top but I can tell you i'm not suprised it happened.These kids are under a lot of peer pressure and seeing this kid walking around like a girl put him and his friends over the edge.I read a post that asked why we can't live and let live.Well that sounds great but remember these are 8th graders.They don't understand what this kid is doing.To them he is a freak and you know what "he was a freak" i'll bet he was the only male in the school wearing fish net stocking, make-up, painted nails, and female dresses.In my book this makes him an 8th grade freak.He did not deserve to be killed over this but his parents and the school and even himself should have seen something terrible could happen.He continued to be so different as if to throw it in the face of all the other students.Just because this kid was gay did not mean he had to taunt all the other classmates. I suppose the school is going to get support groups together and make these 8th graders take some kind of sensitivity classes. Maybe it should be for 7th graders or 6th graders actually lets start at kindergarden then there should be no excuse for not accepting everybody no matter what. What a joke! These kids are just starting to grow up and see this mess-up world. They need leadership from their parents and teachers. They don't need disruption from some freak in the classroom trying to make a personal statement. Maybe they should take them on a field trip to the Folsom Street Parade in San Fran. That will show them what the freaks do when the graduate from high school. What great examples that would show the young kids.

Capital punishment for homosexuality had been reinstated?

"Capital punishment for homosexuality had been reinstated?"

It's Biblical!

Thank god Iraq does not have homo's. And if they find one they kill them. Yet the lib's were so inviting to let the Iranian Hitler come to our country and insult our intelligence.

Iranian Hitler? Which country did Iran invade lately? Oh, that's right - none. But if you do it to "promote democracy" then all is well.

Reggie92, I went to junior high school, too, and the greatest "pressure" I faced was whether or not to join the smokers. The way you and some others put it these kids are pressure cookers on the verge of exploding rather than little balls of hormones who brood and pout a lot.

As far as a guy in fishnet stockings being so shocking or distracting, well, maybe for the first five minutes. After that who really notices anymore? If anything it's the fodder for playground slurs because we all know that the little bulies out there love yelling out slurs and that they'll always find something to bug the weaker kids with.

I'm guessing the victim was probably called gay for a long time before he had enough and decided to push back - in a non-violent way. The fact that the little bully somehow thought it okay to kill him for it just shows what his character is made of. He wasn't a man unless he had a gun. Well, now he should face a man's punishment for his actions.

Speaking of the gun, where did he get a handgun from? Aren't his parents responsible enough to keep lethal firearms out of the hands of children? I think they should face some jail time for that screw-up, alone.

Now some people keep mentioning Christian values. Should those be the Christian values of the KKK, Fred Phelps, the Anglican church that marries gay people or the Christian values of the Rastafarians? All of them claim to follow the word of God, all of them back their actions with scripture. All of them believe they are right while the others are wrong. At least athiests believe the same thing.

JOMAMA, Times sure have changed from being afraid of being the last one picked for a dodge ball game to trying to figure what dress to wear. At that age I don't think there is only a 5 min. distraction. I think it lasts all day and all week and if he was not murdered it would have lasted all year. These are young kids. They can't figure out why one boy is trying to be a girl right in front of them. It seem very weird to them. Come on you mean to tell me if a male student in your 8th grade class came in dressed up like a girl with make-up and painted nails it would only be a 5 min conversation. I can tell you that boy would have been taken to the principles office and his parents should have been contacted. This family needed some guidenence on how to help this troubled young man.I do agree with you that his (the murderers) parents are to be help responsible for this also. I think these schools need to contact parents on both sides of these type of issues. Be it the bully or the crossdresser or whatever the situation may be. There certainly has been to much violence in these middle and high schools. I wonder how many problems came up like this 25 years ago? Times sure have changed when the gays are out there trying to get more and more SPECIAL rights. They are telling this very young child it is o.k. to dress like you want. To bad what other people think. You be yourself. They don't let them know what the consequence could be. And of course murder is no way to solve this solution but again these are young children who are very confused by what is going on right in front of them and they don't have the life long experiences that could help them deal with different situations.

sorry late post was for GENERICO. my bad!!

sorry late post was for GENERICO. my bad!!

sorry late post was for GENERICO. my bad!!

"They don't let them know what the consequence could be."

How do you know that??? How do you know that this boy wasn't fully cognizant of the fact that there would be consequences and that he accepted them....of course not knowing some lunatic would actually shoot him. Apparently, he was capable of enduring the teasing and bullying but a gun wasn't really a predictable consequence.

Reggie92, am I safe in assuming that the '92 part of your handle is a reference to your birth year? This isn't a dig but an attempt to further understand your position. If it is then you may be surprised to know that these problems did come up 25-years ago.

When I read your comments I realized what was going on here. You and a lot of other people are overthinking this. You're ascribing thoughts and actions that are far too deep and involved than what a child of that age is capable of. Instead, this is a case where the child being attacked was merely different from the bully or the same in a way the bully couldn't comprehend.

I went to junior high right when punk rock was being born (not the watered down version that is around now but the real thing). That's when the crypto-homo rockers and the outcasts were coming to school dressed in fishnets, torn designer clothing held together with safety pins (that is to say designer clothing that was torn and pinned by the wearer, not the designer) and green hair.

Predictably, they were called gay. And, unless kids are a lot stupider than they are today, they were reviled, admired, praised, beat up or beat the crap out of their tormentors. We weren't "confused" or "distracted" by them. We were kids and kids form cliques. Even if they hadn't dressed outrageously they would have still been ostracized because kids, like adults, dogs and chickens establish pecking orders.

And they did get everyone's attention, but not to the point of distraction. You'd have to be pretty bored to have a guy in fishnets or nail polish distract you for too long. If they were calling him gay before then somehow I don't think he'd be any more or less gay in a dress.

Children at that age don't think in terms of shades of grey, they polarize everything because they aren't capable or experienced enough to work through things in any other way. That's why they're so vulnerable to accept discrimination. If someone is different thsn the group they must be punished for it. That's why I wonder what the heck the shooter was being taught at home. If they're taught that fags must die they won't think through the consequences because they're not capable of it.

Sad awful situation for the families of both.

Not to get too analytical--but this appears to be more than someone being shot over boots.

It appears much more personal.

Wrong all the same and if he is charged as an adult he will go to kiddie jail until he is 21.

Kids don't understand this sort of behavior and they don't have a mediator on campus to diffuse the situation. The teachers are useless and the parents the same.

And last I checked--schools banned God from the campus--so who can teach them to be tolerant--an athiest? Not working very well.

Since they removed God from schools the shootings began and continue.

BTW--most of America 85--90% would like to have the schools allow moments of silence--but that's not allowed either.

Murphy

What the holy fuck is wrong with this country when every prosecutor wants to charge a child as an adult ?!?!? I don't fucking get that... back when they came up with this stupid shit we were talking 17 yr old gangbangers doing organized crime.

Now the gold standard seems to be a matter of how heinious a crime it was.

If this is the standard we are to hold to, then as soon as some minor scores his first beer illegaly then he should be legaly be allowed to drink, because the action clearly has upgraded his maturity.....

14 is not even kinda sorta an adult. 18 - 25 is questionable...

"last I checked--schools banned God" (which one?) "from the campus"

Two words:

bull

shit

------
People in the employ of public schools are banned from promoting their particular (worthless) superstitions under the aegis of the school.

Do try and get an education
It may be hopeless in your case, though.

And last I checked--schools banned God from the campus--so who can teach them to be tolerant--an athiest? Not working very well.

Since they removed God from schools the shootings began and continue.

BTW--most of America 85--90% would like to have the schools allow moments of silence--but that's not allowed either.

Murphy

Posted by MURPHY at 2008-02-18 03:19 PM | Reply |

laughable notion on its face, given that most "gay haters" use the bible as they're justification. Atheists may very well be the best people to preach about tolerance. This kid would of probably babbled on about some shit he never read in the bible to support his act.

How do you know that??? How do you know that this boy wasn't fully cognizant of the fact that there would be consequences and that he accepted them....of course not knowing some lunatic would actually shoot him. Apparently, he was capable of enduring the teasing and bullying but a gun wasn't really a predictable consequence.


Posted by danni at 2008-02-18 01:52 PM | Reply |


Yeah I dont' fucking care how someone dresses it should never even remotely be a justification for execution. Only a fucking animal would believe otherwise.

When it comes right down to it, what freakin' difference does it really make what anyone wears? Everything we wear is drag - a sartorial symbol of who we say we are. It's all based on socialized expectations. What's "right" and what's "wrong?"

Sad, sad story.

"Since they removed God from schools the shootings began and continue."

Murphy conducted scientific research to make this cause and effect claim....right??? Or is it just talking out your ass Murph???

DANNI No REGGIE92 Is from my favorite football player Reggie White # 92. I was born in 1967. Thanks anyway!

I can't believe you people don't think it matters how someone dresses. For the most part that is true but when an 8th grade male shows up at school in a dress people are going to be talking, bulling and doing all types of things. It's 8th grade for gods sake. Of course this kid is going to get picked on. What do you think these kids just get together and say lets all be good and accepting 8th graders and pretend he is a she. I wonder if it would be o.k. to ask him (i mean )her what new name to call him/her? I was also around when the punk rock era was around and was a music major so I did see lots of crazy outfits and misfits. The difference is there was groups of people. You have to admit if only one guy shows up in a dress he is going to get so picked on. Whay kind of parents let this kid go to school when they have to know he is going to get picked on. I hope they are happy. And one more last time I totally agree that this troubles child did not deserve to die over this. So parents if your little Tommy wants to be a little Tammy probably not a good idea to be so open until he can be around older groups of people who understand and accept that type a behavior.

Danni--you have the corner on talking out your ass.


It's a historical observation--

Since God has been banned from school --you know like observing the 10 Commandments--gun killings have increased.

And the athiests who run the schools now are doing such a great job in morality at the public schools--there have been many rotten things going on at schools.

Like the teaching of kids to have sex with anyone anytime --blow jobs are not sex, try all drugs--it's ok to experiment--it's ok to be bisexual--etc etc etc....

And don't get started on the hiring of teachers who have sex with the kids--There are more molestations of kids by teachers than the priests ever did with kids.

You can go look up the Dept of Education reports for those facts.

Murphy

"Since they removed God from schools the shootings began and continue.

Posted by MURPHY"

Coincidentally, school shootings increased since the introduction of soft drinks and McDonalds food into their cafeterias.

Seriously, Murph, there has always been violence in the school. What has changed is that where before it was usually adults doing the killing, now it's the kids killing each other. What do you want to blame? Television? How about video games? What about the corporations who market things like vitamins to children directly?

Ultimately, it has to come down to one of two things; there's something wrong with the kid or there's something wrong with the family.

Video games.

"What about the corporations who market things like vitamins to children directly?

Posted by Generico at 2008-02-18 07:17 PM"

Yup. Including those cheap Generico drugs with lesser quality control.

Generico TM, we take the harm out of pharmacopoeia.

I BLAME GEORGE W BUSH. EVERYBODY BLAMES HIM FOR EVERYTHING ANYWAY SO IT MUST BE HIS FAULT.

NP, Reggie, it was a good year and he's a good ballplayer.

Still, I maintain there's something wrong with the kid or with the family. No one should be raised thinking that it's okay to shoot someone who you have a problem with. Parents are ultimately responsible for their minor children. They are responsible for their behaviour, their education and their values.

The buck always stops with the parents. That's why parenting is a great responsibility. If people don't want to have that responsibility then they should abstain from having sex.

Someone pointed out that gay kids often have poor male role models. In that case, having two dads would be best example for a young lad. Good on you for your support of gay marriage. You are truly progressive.