Sehr Gutt !!

They had spine enough to tell the US go fuck themselves.

Oder, Verpisst euch!

Wunderbar!

fantastic cheek? well, can we at least get a couple of fraulines with fantastic cheeks instead?

Where they are in Northern Afghanistan is fairly stable. They ain't no fools. This is Bush's problem, not theirs.

Bush: Why won't they just do what they're told?

They had spine enough to tell the US go fuck themselves.
That took spine?
What the Hell do we ever do to any of out "allies"? Christ, they walk all over us.
The is the battered wife in this relationship and has been since the 60s.

What we should do (but won't)
1) Leave NATO. They are treaty bound to help. NATO involved Article 5. They didn't have to; they did.
2) Withdrawal all troops from Germany.
3) Stop any foreign aid to them or any cause they champion. I am tired of giving welfare to the world and being spit on as a result. The money can be put to much better use here in the US.

As for Canada's "threat", that isn't a threat. Europe would be thrilled if Afghan failed. Plus Europe's future is Islam anyhow.

Bush: Why won't they just do what they're told?

Posted by johnjkavanagh

ff

What the Hell do we ever do to any of out "allies"? Christ, they walk all over us.

Maybe the Germans haven't forgotten how we defeated them.

When Canada is on your side of an argument you can be sure you are on the right side of the argument.
Thank God for Canada.

i thought they just elected a relative right prime minister in germany and all the right wing websites were talking about what a banner year it was going to be for the forieghn relations between the US and Germany

So much for Bush's eating the pig with Frau Whatsherface ushering in a new euro-weenie-Fighty Righty alliance.

Maybe France will step in.

Or the Poles.

Or maybe a Young Republican volunteer force.

Or maybe a Young Republican volunteer force.

Posted by northguy3

ff

Bush's Youth LOL

""Or maybe a Young Republican volunteer force.""

Double Funny Flag there. Well deserved.

"Or maybe a Young Republican volunteer force."

Sure.

ff

A NATO rift is not a good thing.
I'm glad you find that funny.

Germany's response was a mixture of outrage and surprise. Initial comments leaked from an unnamed defence ministry source described the Gates' letter as "impertinent", and as a "fantastic cheek". One official accused Mr Gates of trying to inflict "psychological torture" on Germany.
* * * *

There is no NATO, and never was. The Russians must be kicking themselves today, to realize what a hollow shell the NATO forces were: get past the Americans and Brits, and the rest of them are just pussies.

So the infantalization of the Western World is now complete. Two generations of paying for Europe's defense has caused even formerly Nazi Germany to become so pussified, that a letter from our Defense Secretary causes "psychological torture in Germany". And Germany's so-called "contribution" to the Afghan effort is to put a couple of heavily armed companies in the most secure areas, and to resist calls at every opportunity when their American or Canadian or British allies ask for help.

No problem, though. I've trained with the German forces, and they're a joke. Probably for the best they don't take on the Taliban, and get the hell kicked out of them. Bush and Gates were stupid to have even bothered.

The EU has no spine, as PROVEN in their reaction to Serbia....

Posted by DavetheWave at 2008-02-02 06:46 PM

They told us to pretty much Fuck Ourselves.

The EU has no spine, as PROVEN in their reaction to Serbia....

Posted by DavetheWave

* * * *

That's true. The Europeans after World War 2 said regarding the Holocaust, "never again". Then sat idly by while genocide took place in their own back yard. Yugoslavia was 90 minutes by train from Vienna--I know. But, as usual, unless the Americans come in and do all the heavy lifting, all the work, and pay for it besides, the Europeans don't really give a damn.

Time we didn't either. We should send them a bill for the Marshall Plan and for 60 years of defense spending, then prepare ourselves for the Islamification of the entire continent, and a new dark age. After all, the Europeans are in a better position than anyone to decide whether they're worth protecting. If they won't even pay to defend themselves, why the hell should we?

A NATO rift is not a good thing.
I'm glad you find that funny.

Posted by realplus5
* * * *

Actually, a NATO rift is a good thing. NATO was formed to counter the Warsaw Pact, which now no longer exists. In fact, none of the signatories to the Warsaw Pact even exist; all their Communist governments have been dissolved. When Ukraine and Poland and the Czech Republic and Romania are clamoring to join NATO, you know there's no point in it anymore.
Unless, that is, its members can be counted on to support each other when bullets start flying. And the Germans say "nein".
Germany is a beautiful country--I lived there for four years. And given a choice between being militantly militant, or militantly pacifist, I'll take door number 2, every time. But either way, they're no ally of ours.

Good for Germany. Every country should tell our corrupt govt to go to hell.

Godalmighty.

When Marcos was in power, the entire world's supply of gold was worth $1.2 trillion. Are you really going to pretend that Marcos owned 80% of the world's supply at the time?

Quit reading that junk.

This is about BushCo squandering our Goodwill while lining their pockets, wasting lives and property on missions of vanity.

Everybody is sick of it.

pulling our 750 military bases home would be a terrific idea. our military's defensive function has been all but lost. For Shrub, it is a tool to force the unwilling to play monopoly by our rules. Against International law, our Constitution, our Government as balance of power and human decency.

WE WILL ALL PAY DEARLY, as the largest third world country ever, whether we voted for the fucker or not.

Germany said "Nein"?
Who bid "Nein point five"?

Happy flame war.



I'm off to vinyl heaven.

Wouldn't it be great if we had a leader who was able to persuede people to follow us?

1) Leave NATO. They are treaty bound to help. NATO involved Article 5. They didn't have to; they did.
2) Withdrawal all troops from Germany.
3) Stop any foreign aid to them or any cause they champion. I am tired of giving welfare to the world and being spit on as a result. The money can be put to much better use here in the US.

As for Canada's "threat", that isn't a threat. Europe would be thrilled if Afghan failed. Plus Europe's future is Islam anyhow.

POSTED BY EVILDAVE

Amazing.

fritz

Does this mean the dogs in police K-9 units will now be referred to as Freedom Shepherds?

Gee I don't know Germany? So far you've aided & abeted the Bush Regime every step of the way in its Iraq "Oil" War! Do you think you can just say "No" at this late stage in the Iraq genocide and this will wash the "blood" off your hands???

Gee I don't know Germany? So far you've aided & abeted the Bush Regime every step of the way in its Iraq "Oil" War! Do you think you can just say "No" at this late stage in the Iraq genocide and this will wash the "blood" off your hands???

POSTED BY ANTICADILLAC

Rewriting history as usual?

Germany joined the war in Afganistan immediately and has 3500 soldiers there (20 DIA).
But, Germany was one of the leading countries in the effort to prevent the criminal and illegal invasion of Iraq. Remember your hatred towards Germany from that time (2003)? At least I will not forget.

fritz

What we should do (but won't)
1) Leave NATO. They are treaty bound to help. NATO involved Article 5. They didn't have to; they did.
2) Withdrawal all troops from Germany.
3) Stop any foreign aid to them or any cause they champion. I am tired of giving welfare to the world and being spit on as a result. The money can be put to much better use here in the US.

Posted by EvilDave at 2008-02-02 07:54 PM



If you ran on that platform here in Germany, you could become the next Chancellor! Nobody wants the US here, the US wants to be here and they have contracts that allow them to stay.

Also, just how much fucking "aid" do think the US gives Gemany??? Links? I think it's the other way around these days. There's at least one German charity organisation that gives money to the poor in the US. And I know at least one German corporation (my wife works for them) that is buying up US businesses like they're actually worth something. And remember Daimler/Chrysler? That was charity on Daimler's part. Too bad Chrysler sucked so bad they had to get tossed back out.

"Nobody wants the US here,..."

Nobody? You're convinced NOBODY wants the U.S. there? NOT ONE PERSON wants the U.S. there? Absolutely NOBODY? Seems there would be massive demonstrations if that was the case. If NOBODY wanted them there, I'm sure they would be gone. Maybe it's just YOU posting on the DR who wants the U.S. gone? You crack me up....LOL.

(Incidently, I'd like to see them withdrawn myself. Let Europe stew in it's own juices. It'll all be Islamic soon anyway.)

Absolutely NOBODY? Seems there would be massive demonstrations if that was the case.

You are right, there are several thousands Germans who want the US military to stay, because these people profit from the money the US military spent in their region.

This was not the case some years ago. In the Clinton years everybody here loved the US, Clinton himself is even today a very popular (ex)President.

But a lot of Germans can read English and a lot of Germans understood what happened to the US in November 2000. And a lot of Germans followed this unforgettable demonstration of Powell.

"In the Clinton years everybody here loved the US,..."

EVERYBODY??? Do you mean that each and EVERY person in Germany "loved" Clinton? There was not ONE person who didn't love Bill Clinton? What is it with you and Bellaspapa? Are all of you in 100% complete lockstep over there?

You might be more correct if you just said that Clinton loved ALL the women over THERE though. I could buy that one...LOL.

I don't understand why americans are complaining about germany's nein. you should get down on your knees and thank god for the opportunity to be jihadists for halliburton

If the republicans would just send their kids off to war, or go themselves, we wouldn't need to ask Germany for troops.

If the republicans would just send their kids off to war...

As far as I know Republicans (or people of any party affiliation) do not have the right to send their kids into the military -- or anywhere else for that matter. This is America where adults are allowed to make their own career choices, bob.

In the Clinton years everybody here loved the US, Clinton himself is even today a very popular (ex)President.

Bullshit. I traveled abroad during Clinton's reign. Europeans hated us then. You have no frame of reference to this unless you can understand how much the media was filtered (internet has hopefully changed that somewhat). Many Europeans want to dislike Americans (with good reason IMO).

IN any case, it is utter bullshit to suggest that America was loved just becuase Clinton was president.

You posess absolutely no objectivity on this.

As far as I know Republicans (or people of any party affiliation) do not have the right to send their kids into the military -- or anywhere else for that matter. This is America where adults are allowed to make their own career choices, bob.

Posted by goatman at 2008-02-03 09:37 AM |


Your naivete is showing. Parents can legally exert great influence and pressure on their children---even adult children.

That's America. That's freedom.

Your naivete is showing. Parents can legally exert great influence and pressure on their children---even adult children.

My parents taught me to think for myself and make my own decisions. Most importantly I understood that I would have to live the consequences of my actions.

Reading the tripe you post constantly tells me that you weren't given such direction as a youngster.

Your naivete is showing. Parents can legally exert great influence and pressure on their children---even adult children.

Either your short term memory loss or ignorance of the English language is showing. I'm not sure which. You said:

If the republicans would just send their kids off to war

"Sending off to war" is completely different than "exerting great influene".

"Either your short term memory loss or ignorance of the English language is showing."

Why not both?

Think I'll take the M14 down to the back pasture.
With all the racket no one will notice.

"Does this mean the dogs in police K-9 units will now be referred to as Freedom Shepherds?"

ff

Those European countries and the UN that told Bush that invading Iraq was neither justified nor wise and that no WMD or Al Qaeda connections could be found were told to fuck off. Rumsfeld called them "old Europe" while we were wooing the old Soviet Union EU members who were "new Europe".

Bush back then was full of himself with his "my way or the highway" diplomacy. Now, $900 billion to $2 trillion(?) later and a military that he has broken he's out there as a lame duck with nothing to offer, begging for help and being told to fuck off himself. What goes around comes around.

Mr Jung later justified the German position insisting that there were "clear regional divisions" regarding troop deployment in Afghanistan. "Our current mandate only allows for German soldiers to be sent to the south in emergencies," he said.

So ... if even *more* people start dying, maybe then the idea might be popular enough to help out, but, untill then, were happy letting the US and Canada do all of the hard and dangerous work. Jeez you guys, this is what NATO is all about.

Several German commentators attacked the government for rejecting the American request. The left-leaning Sddeutsche Zeitung accused politicians of being afraid of the voters.

It would seem that not all German's think it's a bad a idea ... . It is comforting to be reassured that politicians do this in other countries, too.

IN any case, it is utter bullshit to suggest that America was loved just becuase Clinton was president.

You posess absolutely no objectivity on this.

POSTED BY EBERLY

But you posess objectivity on this? And you know better because you travel here? I live here and i know that the US was loved here in Germany. I did not say, that we loved the US because of Clinton. I did say , that we do not love it anymore because of Bush and his followers (people like you). And today we respect Clinton and we disrespect Bush.

Geez, everything in afghanistan is going schvimmingly, according to the Fighty Rightys. I think the Germans remember what happens when you put your troops in the hands of a crazy megalomaniac and aren't anxious to do it again.

Eberly--
I also traveled all through Europe (UK, Germany, France, Switzerland, Austria) during the Clinton years. I have continued to travel through the Bush years too. There has always been some level of anti-America sentiment, but it is much stronger now. Now when I go to Europe, when I engage people in conversation, the dislike of Bush is mentioned early in the conversation. This wasn't the case during the 1990s.

I lived in Europe for years, and politics rarely came up at all. Let me ask you something: if you had a real problem with Angela Merkel, would your dislike of HER come up "early in the conversation"?

I did have a good German friend who got animated about Clinton. I never voted for the guy, but turned things around on him. Bill Clinton and Richard Nixon were the sleaziest presidents in my lifetime. But they, on their worst days, would have been preferable to almost anyone in the European POS Hall of Fame. Stalin, Kruschev, Hitler, Franco, Mussolini, the Colonels, Ceaucesceau--all of whom were popularly elected, overwhelmingly.

In the end, I couldn't care less what the Europeans think of anything. To whatever extent I do, they're a negative indicator: whatever they oppose is probably a great idea. And if they're ever very strongly FOR something, or someONE, best to assume the position of attention, with the safeties off.

In the end, I couldn't care less what the Europeans think of anything. To whatever extent I do, they're a negative indicator: whatever they oppose is probably a great idea. And if they're ever very strongly FOR something, or someONE, best to assume the position of attention, with the safeties off.

POSTED BY RIGHTISRIGHT

This is surely mutual.

I lived in Europe for years, and politics rarely came up at all.
Posted by rightisright at 2008-02-03 10:49 PM

THAT is a very cogent point, RiR. I've been living in Germany going on 13 years now and I can honestly report that politics rarely, if ever, comes up in conversation. In fact, I would really have to say that I have NEVER heard a German start a conversation about politics, and I know plenty. I'm one of those rare Americans who actually gets out and socializes with people, lol.

And, the media here loved the Clintons, mostly Hillary!. People's view of them is most definitely skewed, BUT they're also not nearly stupid enough to believe everything they read in the headlines, or on bumper stickers (as opposed to the citizens of a certain large nation who shall remain nameless...).

People here do tend to be a bit more, um, "aware" of what's going on in the world than people in that other country.

(Incidently, I'd like to see them withdrawn myself. Let Europe stew in it's own juices. It'll all be Islamic soon anyway.)

Posted by jestgettinalong

are you guys really that fucking stupid? Hubris is the first step to collapse.

That Euro sure is plummeting to the US dollar! NOT!

Look dumbass.. Our European counterparts are looking to the US as a "LOW-COST SOLUTION" to manufacturing compared to EASTERN EUROPE..

get real.

if we are such a pain in the neck to so many countries, let's drop this whole NATO joke, pull "aide" from countries around the world, and use the money on ourselves. better yet, let's give it back to the taxpayers.

Well, we should just pull our 60 thousand troops out of Germany and let them fend for themselves. How much do you think that put into the German economy every year?

Well, we should just pull our 60 thousand troops out of Germany and let them fend for themselves. How much do you think that put into the German economy every year?

POSTED BY SNIPER

Oh yes, the German economy will not survive without this money infusion. Unbelievable.

"The EU has no spine, as PROVEN in their reaction to Serbia...."

Huh? They became worried about the situation in Serbia as a general threat to them due to the fact that the last two world wars began in the Caucasus and escalated across the continent.

So they ordered Bill Clinton to bomb the Serbs and after a brief but highly successful advertising campaign, that is exactly what Bill did.

They got exactly what they wanted without risking anything, spending very much or earning the hatred that comes with bombing cities. They were not the spineless ones in this instance.......

As for Germany - Speak to a drunk German in his own country and there is at least a 50% chance that he makes a lamenting reference to losing WWII. Same goes for Austrians. They're still bitter.

I agree, we should withdraw all troops from Germany, but why the heck stop there?

We have troops all over the planet.

We should start withdrawing them from everywhere in some organized manner. Offer to sell off the bases and equipment to most of the nations we leave and train their own people to run them, along with reasonable contracts for parts and consumables to keep it running, then LEAVE.

We'd save almost a trillion bucks a year just shutting down those hundreds of bases, and get some positive revenue for the support for our 'allies' who now have to pay for their own damned defense. Invest some of the savings in a better carrier and submarine fleet to project power and missile defense to keep the various 'tards out there at bay without having to be the 'bad guys' and nuke them wholesale.

As far as the middle east goes, the sooner we get off our petroleum addiction, the sooner none of that bullshit over there will matter to us at all. Let them slaughter each other just like they want to, as fast as they want to, until everything there is in ruins and all that are left are some scattered tribes of sickly desert mutants tiptoeing around the radioactive glass. All in the name of Allah or whatever. Screw 'em.

Oh yes, the German economy will not survive without this money infusion. Unbelievable.

Posted by fribo

Did I say it would sink their economy????? You are the unbelievable one fribo breath.

Remember that Germany paid dearly because of Hitler appeasers in the 30's and 40's. Can you blame them for refusing to appease the Fourth Reich?

As for Germany - Speak to a drunk German in his own country and there is at least a 50% chance that he makes a lamenting reference to losing WWII. Same goes for Austrians. They're still bitter.


Posted by Sully at 2008-02-04 12:01 PM

I'm calling absolute BULLSHIT on that one! I've spoken with hundreds of highly intoxicated Germans and NONE has of yet made even the slightest reference to your delusional scenario... pathetic bullshit based on your own sense of self-importance.

Look dumbass.. Our European counterparts are looking to the US as a "LOW-COST SOLUTION" to manufacturing compared to EASTERN EUROPE..

get real.

Posted by Legio at 2008-02-04 09:17 AM

And this I can without a doubt confirm, at least in the case of my wife's firm.

As for Germany - Speak to a drunk German in his own country and there is at least a 50% chance that he makes a lamenting reference to losing WWII. Same goes for Austrians. They're still bitter.
POSTED BY SULLY

I doubt this story (very, very much).

"I'm calling absolute BULLSHIT on that one! I've spoken with hundreds of highly intoxicated Germans and NONE has of yet made even the slightest reference to your delusional scenario... pathetic bullshit based on your own sense of self-importance."

You can say whatever you want but I've heard it. Maybe the Germans you know also know that you're a PC panzy ass so they hold their tongues. And say you don't believe it but self importance? I wasn't alive during WWII and take no credit. Trust me.

"I doubt this story (very, very much)."

Good for you.