Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Saturday, February 02, 2008

The largest Spanish language newspaper in California has endorsed Barack Obama as their Democratic nominee for President of the United States.

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The chorus continues to grow as an ever-increasing number of influential voices endorse Barack Obama.



seattlepi.nwsource.com

Rory Kennedy has come out in support of Barack Obama, and she quotes her mother Ethel Kennedy, who said of Barack, "I think he feels it. He feels it just like Bobby did. He has the passion in his heart. He's not selling you. It's just him." Susan Eisenhower, granddaughter of Ike, has also come out and endorsed Barack Obama.

George Clooney had a bit to say when he endorsed Obama as well, but I don't think that holds a candle to the endorsements of these two, nor to the outpouring of Republican support for Obama, as chronicled in the Newsweek "Obmacan" article.


allspinzone.com

Barack + GOP = Obamacans'

Some prominent Republicans have caught Obama fever.


www.newsweek.com

President Sanchez in 2020.

Of course La Opinion endorses Obama.
Obama has been groveling and pandering here in L.A. to the illegal alien/open borders crowd to the point of nausea . Obama will throw open this country's borders to the entire third world and he doesn't care if they come here illegally.

Of course Obama doesn't say one word about who's going to have to pay for them -- the U.S. taxpayer -- or talk about how this recession is leaving U.S. citizens without work and the last thing we need is for Americans to have to compete right here in our own country with illegal third world workers being paid third world wages.

Senator Kennedy has been on all the major Spanish radio stations here in L.A. the last day or so bragging about how when back in 2006
and millions of illegal aliens protested on the streets of our nation [photo shows downtown Los Angeles] that "Senator Obama was one of only two senators who marched right along with them."

The Kennedy-McCain shamnesty bill the traitor Kennedy brags about also had a clause in the bill that fast-tracked the North American Union. That bill also would have allowed every single illegal alien who worked here using false or stolen Social Security cards to share in our Social Security program! (I thought the politicians keep saying there isn't enough money in the SS fund for American workers but they want to allow all the illegal aliens to dip in the SS fund now too?)

If you want the NAU, wide open borders, continuation of an unlimited illegal immigration invasion and third world competition for jobs on our own soil == VOTE - McCain, Obama and Hillary.

Remember during the CNN debate when Obama was asked if illegal immigration was hurting Black American citizens and Obama sluffed it off as a joke and wouldn't even say the word "illegal"?

Here is an article by a Black author who lives right here L.A.'s San Fernando Valley (home to many suburbs) and he has an entirely different view than Obama. Obama has his head in a cloud and seems to prefer illegals and their hardhships way before he wants to enforce immigration laws to help U.S. citizens -- particulary Black Americans -- who have hardships of their own. What the guy in this article has to say is true as I live here and have seen it.

Blacks are being pushed out of their neighborhoods, their schools, and increasingly the victims of race crimes due to the massive invasion of illegal aliens into California. Kids now have to learn in school bungalows instead of classrooms because there are so many kids of illegals that the schools are bursting at the seams. Is this fair to Americans who have to pay taxes to support them? ANYBODY who wants open borders or is some sob sister about amnesty and letting in the entire third world to stay in our country -- send your check to help pay for them..

"Illegal Immigration: Issue or Lifestyle"


President Sanchez in 2020.

Posted by AuntieSocial

ff

Where is Corky and Bill ?

-Sarge

"Obama has been groveling and pandering here in L.A. to the illegal alien/open borders crowd to the point of nausea "

What medical weed you been smokin'?

Who gives a fuck who endorses who? It doesnt really matter when it all comes down to a vote. Think for yourself, not what you are told to think!

Regarding the pandering:

www.slate.com
lonewacko.com

Also, the publisher of La Opinion is/was a board member of the Bank of America. Here's more on their efforts:

lonewacko.com

It's a Loooooong way until November.

So another memebr of America's Corporate Mafia endorses Obama to show what - Obama's staunch independence and his unflinching Democratic Ideals?

Corporate America will soon (if not already)own Obama.
Illegals voting, the dem dream.............

Obama Campaign Linked
To Chechen Terrorism
Grant Of Taxpayer-Funded U.S. Asylum For Chechen Terror
Envoy Gave Obama Foreign Policy Guru Zbigniew Brzezinski
'One Of The Happiest Days Of My Life'
By Webster G. Tarpley
2-3-8

"I am glad [Brzezinski] is a "former" national security adviser. Hatred cannot drive foreign policy."

--Russian UN ambassador (now Foreign Minister) Sergei Lavrov, Charlie Rose program, March 25, 1999

"How would Americans feel if Russia offered sanctuary to Osama bin Laden?" -- Pravda.ru


If the American public were generally aware that the "foreign minister" of one of the most murderous terrorist organizations in the world, a man whose extradition on terrorism charges is sought by at least one UN Security Council permanent member, is living openly in Washington DC, they might be indignant. If Americans knew that this is the "foreign minister" of a terrorist group specializing in killing women and children first in a hospital, then in a school, and later defenseless civilians in a theater, their indignation might grow into rage. If they knew that this envoy for terrorists is living in the comfortable Woodley Park neighborhood of Washington DC with a lifestyle most Americans could not afford, with an office, a secretary, a travel budget, and a public relations budget all paid for at the expense of the US taxpayers, with State Department checks signed by Condoleeza Rice, they might be furious. If they knew that this ambassador for terrorists had been set up in his current all expenses paid, taxpayer-funded lifestyle by a man who is the main image adviser and the main foreign policy adviser to Barack Obama, their view of the Illinois senator and his qualifications for the presidency might well undergo a radical change.

And yet, all this is reality. The terrorist organization in question is the Chechen rebel group associated with the names of two of the greatest butchers of our time, Aslan Maskhadov and Shamil Basayev, both deceased even though the organization they built fights on. The foreign minister and ambassador for this terrorist group is Ilyas Khamzatovich Akhmadov (??, born "
en.wikipedia.org" " December 19, "en.wikipedia.org" o "1960" 1960), who was granted political asylum in the United States in 2003. Akhmadov's patron is none other than Zbigniew Brzezinski, the former head of the National Security Council during the Jimmy Carter administration. Zbigniew Brezezinski in turn is not only the main foreign policy adviser to the Barack Obama presidential campaign; Zbigniew is in many ways the creator of the public relations image profile now being used by Obama in his quest for the White House, an image that is developed in Zbig's latest book, Second Chance. Zbigniew's son Mark Brzezinski, a veteran of the NSC under Clinton, is another key foreign policy adviser for Obama. Mika Brzezinski, daughter to Zbigniew and sister to Mark, churns out a propaganda line slanted in favor of Obama every morning on the MSNBC Morning Joe program. Ian Brzezinski, another son of Zbigniew, is busy poisoning US relations with Russia from his post as Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Europe and Russia in the Bush Pentagon. Yet another member of the clan, Zbigniew's nephew Matthew Brzezinski serves as a de facto public relations representative for Akhmadov, whitewashing this envoy for Chechen terrorists in the pages of the Washington Post. The entire clan is made of of petty Polish aristocrats notable mainly for their fanatical, consuming hatred of Russia and Russians.



www.rense.com

Tarpley wrote the e-book bio on Bush sr:>/

Ron Paul Gains Endorsements from Montana's Conservative Legislators
www.ad-hoc-news.de

USA Daily endorses Ron Paul for President
www.usadaily.com

Heath Calvert Endorses Ron Paul
www.lewrockwell.com

Ron Paul endorsed by Jane Roe, yes, THAT Roe
news.google.com

Ron Paul Campaign Announces Alaska Veterans for Paul CoalitionANCHORAGE, Ala.VETERANS-FOR-PAUL
www.ad-hoc-news.de

Arlo Guthrie Endorses Ron Paul
morningsentinel.mainetoday.com

GayWired Media Republican Endorsement: Ron Paul
www.gaywired.com

I just posted many endorsements for Ron Paul that are just as substantive as Obama's endorsements.
But do any of them make it to the front page of Drudge? No!
Why? Because Drudge is just as phony, fake, and sell out as the rest of the corporate media.

um, jeff...

This is a story because it is related to the illegal immigrant licenses that were spoken about in the debates.

And ron paul has been getting less delegates than huckabee with more money, which might be why no one is covering him anymore.

JeffD,

Why do you like Ron Paul?

I like his position on the Fair Tax, but that is about it. Seriously, what is so great about this guy? He seems like a whiny freak to me.

Oslama and Cliton are worse, don't get me wrong. I would vote for RP in a second if it were between him and either Chimpton or Beluga Osama.

Cheers,
Walt

I don't know exactly why Jeff supports Ron Paul but I'd say it's a safe guess that some of these reasons apply.

25 Reasons I Support Ron Paul
Lew Rockwell | January 4, 2008
Don Garlits

He is honest.
He is a statesman, and not just a politician
He is pro life.
He believes in the US Constitution.
He wants to eliminate the evil Federal Reserve and return to honest money
He wants to eliminate the IRS and the income tax
He wants to reduce the size of the US Government and balance the budget.
He opposes the Iraq War and any other war, unless we are attacked.
He opposes President Bush's scheme to form the North American Union (NAU).
He will fight the Bush administration efforts to make illegal aliens who have returned to Mexico eligible for U.S. Social Security benefits, and he will oppose amnesty.
He opposes the United Nations Law of the Sea Treaty (UNLOST).
He is a medical doctor and opposes socialized medicine.
He is not a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.
He is not a member of the Trilateral Commission.
He is a proven money raiser at over $27 million.
He is a born-again believer and has lived a life of Christian service.
He doesn't insult us by using his religious faith to pander for votes.
He has never voted for a Congressional pay raise.
He has never voted for a tax increase.
He has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
He has never taken a government-paid junket.
He has never voted to increase the power of the Executive Branch of government.
He has not participated in the Congressional Pension Program.
Ron Paul has been repeatedly named the "Taxpayer's Best Friend" in Congress.
I have known Ron Paul for 20 years, and he has never changed

If you can't see the difference between Ron Paul, and the others, I fear it's to late for you. You are already a sheeple.

"I like his position on the Fair Tax"

His position is that he wants to abolish the IRS, and the federal reserve.


That sounds fair to me!

We have two choices for president - Ron Paul...and all the rest of them. I don't agree with everything Paul stands for, but he has my vote. I hope he runs third party. Maybe that'll force the press to pay the attention he's due.

"He wants to eliminate the IRS and the income tax "

And replace it with another, equal tax (remember, the FT is revenue-neutral) and expand the enforcement power of the government.

Ron Paul is the first candidate I will have ever voted FOR.

I'm finished voting for the lesser of the evils. It never stops evil it only prolongs the suffering.

If you truly love the idea of freedom that this country was founded on you'll vote for Ron Paul.

expand the enforcement power of the government.

Dan, read the book before talking out ur ass.

Visit www.fairtax.org as well.

The collection of taxes will be done by the merchant not by some "expanded power" of the gubment.

Cheers,
Walt

If you truly love the idea of freedom that this country was founded on you'll vote for Ron Paul.

Or you will vote against Cliton and Balack and McSocialist.

Cheers,
Walt

There's Danforth protecting his job.

What's the matter Dan? Afraid to learn a trade that actually benefits someone besides yourself and those who pay you to use the corrupt tax code in their behalf?

Walt

Do you really think your name calling of the Presidential candidates will change peoples mind? How about calling them poopy heads--don't you think that would be more targeted to the people it would influence? Of course they can't vote now, but in 15 years---poopy heads WATCH OUT.

;-)

BBob,

Do you really think your name calling of the Presidential candidates will change peoples mind?

What if I call them Chimp? What about Chimpy? What about Commander in Chimp? or maybe Drinky McFuckup? Maybe I should call them liars, murderers, thieves?

Did you ask the same question to the people who used those words about the current President?

That aside, good to hear from you. Hope all is well. Look forward to some more moon man articles.

Regards.

The only people against the Fair Tax, are Socialists and CPAs.

Cheers,
Walt

And IRS agents. And Demoncrats. And McSocialist and Romney. I need to find a term for him.

Walt

Why not just make your points about them. Calling the current CIC names doesn't change peoples minds either. However there are all kinds of points that show him to be a murderer, thief, liar, and closet bisexual. Even posting those facts has not changed anyones mind.

My point to you is that calling them names lessens your status not theirs.

I'll post another moon article soon. I've got a couple up now that is from a series designed to make those who question the landing lose credibility, but it is too long for discussion.

I hope things keep on going well for you and that you are the guy that catches Osama.

Be well.

Thanks BB.

I am not really looking for him to be honest but I will keep an eye out.

However there are all kinds of points that show him to be a murderer, thief, liar, and closet bisexual.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

I would say it is hard to give orders that kill thousands that are no threat to anyone and not be considered a murderer. At least by me.

Bush used eminent domain to steal private land for his private business. While legal---I still think it is theft--morally.

The liar---everyone lies so that's no biggie. But most peoples lies don't cause thousands of deaths.

The closeted bisexual thing is well documented from his college days through Gannon in the Press Corp and several midnight visits to the WH where he didn't sign out.

Be well.

Got one, Robme.

Cliton, Balack, McSocialist and Robme. Huckabee = Huckabee.

If you are offended by any of these terms, get a life.

Oh wait, I am so sorry, what I meant to say is that if you are in any way offended by any of these allegations in any way then I apologize because my ancestors may or may not have had anything to do with the fact that you are are loser.

Cheers,
Walt

BB

That you believe it does not make it true, and it does not elevate your statements above "name calling".

Cheers,
Walt

Walt

Actually I don't care that Bush likes to cross the line. It is none of my business. I just don't think it is very noble of him to attack homosexuals when as a bisexual he should be more understanding of their lifestyle.

I would say that my statements are above name calling in that they have a basis in fact.

As I said earlier though---the name calling lessens your status, no one elses.

Be well

Hey Boob...did you ever find the source of the missile that hit the Pentagon? Let me know as soon as you locate those passengers from flight 77 too, will ya'?

BB

I called Balack Balack.
He is ba lack aint he?

I called Cliton Cliton.
I cant say anymore or El Socialsitorcade will dump me.

I never stooped to the level of calling someone a homosexual, you did. And that from a person who probably supports gay marriage. How does that work?

Cheers,
Walt

Did you tell the people who called GWB Chimpy that "Name calling lessens their status"?



If you are offended by any of these terms, get a life.


Sells his commission and is offended by being called a Mercenary.

LOL


Sells his commission and is offended by being called a Mercenary.

What are your facts? Post them now or shut the fuck up.

Please also post the price list for a "commission" and the going rate. Moron.

Cheers,
Walt

Oh wait, I get it, I should have stayed in the Army FOREVER!



Please also post the price list for a "commission" and the going rate.


Why don't you tell us Walt. Nothing like going to the source for exact data.

Zap,

You tell me. You are such an expert.

Cheers,
Walt



I should have stayed in the Army FOREVER!


Who would expect that of You?

After all peace could break out and the price for all that Army training would go down.

At least now you're a Prime Time Mercenary!



You tell me. You are such an expert.


Thanks Walt but I'm not the guy who sold my Bars.

Zap,

Who did I sell them to and what was the price? You are such an expert, surely you can tell me.


Just a guess thirty pieces of silver?

I am shocked, an expert such as yourself could only come up with thirty pieces of silver

Maybe you are not as smart as I thought you were.

Cheers,
Walt

Zap,

Who gave me the silver?

Cheers,
Walt

Thanks Walt but I'm not the guy who sold my Bars.

Did you ever have bars?

Cheers,
Walt

"Dan, read the book before talking out ur ass. "

I did, twice. And something totally avoided is enforcement. Do you folks actually think the government is just going to take your word? Right now, the IRS is interested in only a few transactions: your deductible ones. Under the Fair Tax, every transaction will be subject to tax, and therefore subject to enforcement. The IRS will simply be replaced, by the FTRS.

"What's the matter Dan? Afraid to learn a trade that actually benefits someone besides yourself and those who pay you to use the corrupt tax code in their behalf? "

I've saved my clients millions of dollars over the years, have over a 97% annual return rate, and didn't write the code (though I know how to play by their rules). Jealous?

My point is this: no one in favor of the Fair Tax knows the first thing about it. It's a combination of bogus formulae, wild assumptions, contradictory rhetoric, and a promise of something for nothing. And even if it weren't a bunch of smoke and mirrors, no politician wants the public to see ALL the taxes at once. It's an election year sound bite.

DF,

You read the wrong book. Twice.

You are a CPA/Accountant or an IRS agent.

Cheers,
Walt

never stooped to the level of calling someone a homosexual, you did. And that from a person who probably supports gay marriage. How does that work?

Cheers,
Walt

Posted by Walt at 2008-02-03 01:14 PM


"Stoop"??? It's not "stooping" to call someone a homosexual if they are a homosexual. There is nothing wrong with being a homosexual---or a bisexual like Bush. I only said there was something wrong with being a bisexual like Bush and being openly against gay rights. Much like the old toe tapper Larry Craig. I think hypocrisy is not a good thing. Only someone who thinks homosexuality or bisexuality is an evil thing or bad in some way would use the word "stoop" to calling a bisexual a bisexual. It's like saying someone would "stoop" to calling you a heterosexual.
That Bush has had several sexual encounters with males has been well documented, as has his fathers pedophilia. Books written, eyewitness accounts, newspaper articles. Facts are facts.

Be well

Hi Walt

I, for one, am glad you're back on DR again.
Kinda like adding some hot chili pepper to the mix!

Oh, I don't know...at last count the Fair Tax had 67 co-sponsors in Congress.

www.fairtax.org

Hi CC, good to be back. Rcade may ban me after today, but I don't give shit.

Speaking of stooping.....is it stooping to call someone an oreo? Just a question. I know I can call Bush a terrorist and a chimp, and I can call Cheney a puppet master, can I even say master? Can I say anything that denigrates, I mean demeans a person who has an ancestry that can be traced back to Africa?

Cheers,
Walt

P.S.

Bush is a CHIMP
CHIMPS control Bush
Bush is Satan
Bush is a fag, oh wait I cant say that, fags are sacred

"You are a CPA/Accountant or an IRS agent."

Neither. Longtime actor who dabbles in investing, tax planning & prep, to the tune of about 275 clients.

"Oh, I don't know...at last count the Fair Tax had 67 co-sponsors in Congress."

And at one time almost everyone thought the world was flat.

For you FairTax supporters: If every single transaction is subject to tax, how will the FTRS enforce the FairTax laws unless they can look into every single transaction?

DF,

The Fair Tax puts you out of your job. That is why you do not support it. It will keep people from having to see people like you every year to try to get back money that was confiscated from them.

Cheers,
Walt

It will be interesting to see how Obama does among Latino voters this Tuesday. Equally interesting will be the level of Latino turnout.
Although I am far from a McCain supporter, I must say that this is the first time in my lifetime when any of the three major remaining candidates (Obama, Clinton and McCain) are people of integrity. For the first time in memory America has reasonable and legitimate choices from both parties for the US presidency.

...And Walt is a troll.

For the first time in memory America has reasonable and legitimate choices from both parties for the US presidency.

All 3 of them want to legalize illegal criminals. Reasonable? A vote for any of them is a vote for Mexican illegals.

Cheers,
Walt

"The Fair Tax puts you out of your job"

On the contrary, under that law, I'm golden, since everyday folks will have to keep track of every penny they spend, so the government will be able to crosscheck...

If you've ever filled out a tax return with a child, or daycare, or stock sales, etc....the IRS requires crosschecking numbers. So will the new entity. Is anyone actually naive enough to believe the IRS will magically go away, and nothing will take its place?!? . The FTRS (Fair Tax Revenue Service) will, by law, have to be empowered to investigate every transaction, since every transaction will be subject to the Fair Tax. To fully protect yourself, you'll have to keep ledgers of everything you spend. (Right now, you only have to keep track of those few transactions you deduct.) Any volunteers?

DF,

You really do not understand the Fair Tax man. Visit the site or read the book.

The taxes would be collected at the point of sale and the same mechanisms used to get those revenues to the IRS will still be used. Only now there would be no IRS.

To fully protect yourself, you'll have to keep ledgers of everything you spend.

Absolutely incorrect. You buy a pack of gum, you pay the tax automatically at the register. There will be no Federal IRS tax return to fill out. The Fair Tax abolishes the IRS and filing income tax returns.

If a person makes 500$ a week, they bring home 500$ a week. They are only taxed when they use that money to purchase something.

The Fair Tax also increases the number of people paying into Social Security because it takes monies spent by tourists and adds that to the account.

It also turns millions of illegal immigrants into Social Security paying people.

Seriously man, get smart on the Fair Tax, I do not think it is a Democrat or a Republican thing. I work hard for my money and I do not like to see most of it confiscated before it is even deposited into my account. The Fair Tax only taxes you on money that you spend.

It will be interesting to see how Obama does among Latino voters this Tuesday. Equally interesting will be the level of Latino turnout....


Obama is going to need more luck with Latinos than he had with them in Nevada where 64% of Latino voters went for Clinton and only 24% of them voted for Obama. Los Angeles' Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa is one of Clinton's campaign chairmen along with CA State Senator Fabio Nunez -- both bigshot Latino politicos in California. But nationwide Hispanics account for only 6% of the entire vote so Obama may be able to make up his loss of votes with Latinos by pulling in more votes from other groups to make up for it.

"Clinton, Obama and the Ethnic Battles"

Dan,

I appreciate the reasonable conversation and would love to continue it. The problem is that it is 1030AM here and I have to get to work. I am not ignoring you and will check back when I can to see your reply. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

CC,

It is sad that we are engaging in "Ethnic Battles". The fact is that Barack is an open border socialist. So are Clinton and McSocialist. Mike Huckabee is the only person left in the race with a chance of winning that would do a damn thing about protecting our borders.

Romney says what he should say to get support from Republicans, but he is a liar like the rest of them.

"You buy a pack of gum, you pay the tax automatically at the register."

To enforce the FT, the FTRS will have to be empowered to say: prove you paid the 42% total tax:
5% state
7% sales
30% FT (pretending it's a 23% tax).

If the FTRS has any reason to believe you made that transaction WITHOUT paying that tax, it MUST have the right to investigate, or the law has no teeth.

"If a person makes 500$ a week, they bring home 500$ a week."

So what? In a revenue neutral plan, if the average person thinks they're going to come out way ahead, they're wrong. They'll still be paying taxes...just a hundred times a year instead of once a year. Going to the doctor? You're paying a little payroll, federal income and state income taxes. Buying some dinner at the grocery store? $15 will now cost you $21, and thanks for the payroll and income taxes. Buying that $30,000 car? Well you better have $42K.

And for those who actually believe the payroll taxes and income taxes are already "embedded": why do we pay payroll and income taxes separately?

There's also a problem with your concept.

To get the advantage of only being taxed when one spends, folks would have to stop or slow spending.
Spending is about 70% of our economy.
All due respect...wtf?

Again, regarding the FT, a computer that costs $1000 on Monday...FT on Tuesday...what does it cost on Wednesday?

Walt --

The fact is that Barack is an open border socialist. So are Clinton and McSocialist.

You nailed it -- including the remark about Romney. By the way -- they are not "socialists" -- they are die hard "globalists" which is even worse.

Seriously -- the REAL danger to this country lies in the fact that Bush continues to push for his North American Union (he even mentioned it in his State of the Union address which vindicated me from some fools on here who insisted the NAU was only a conspiracy).

If the NAU goes thru our borders are dissolved, we merge with Canada and Mexico, our sovereigty is gone forever, and we become a third world nation full of third world workers toiling away for third world wages -- EXACTLY what these globalists like Hillary, McCain, Romney, et al. want.

Notice not a single one of them will talk about the NAU nor are they asked about it in the debates except for one time when the question went to Ron Paul -- who is against the NAU but has no chance of winning.

Not a single candidate (except maybe Huckabee) will protect our borders and our sovereignty. Not one. McShamnesty is a joke. HOW did that traitor get to be at the front of the primaries!!! I woke up one morning and he was leading the pack. Arizonans hate him.

I don't know who to vote for because all of them are serious globalsts and are 100% behind a NAU as they want to turn us into a economic/trade region just like the EU -- and you've seen what a mess has happened to Europe.

"For you FairTax supporters: If every single transaction is subject to tax, how will the FTRS enforce the FairTax laws unless they can look into every single transaction?"
posted by Danforth at 2008-02-03 04:05 PM

And 16 hours later, not a single FT supporter can answer.

And if you ever can, the next five questions are:

1) Why do you call 23% what everyone else calls 30%? (Don't link me to websites that tell me it's inclusive. I know that.)

2) If all the payroll taxes and income taxes are already embedded in the prices we currently pay, why do we pay income taxes and payroll taxes separately?

3) The FT is revenue-neutral. That means any tax savings I see in my paycheck will be paid elsewhere. Where will I be paying those taxes instead?

4) If I bought a $1,000 iBook on Monday, the FT was enacted on Tuesday, and I bought the type of iBook on Wednesday, how much would I pay?

5) How can you "keep your paycheck" and have prices remain "essentially the same"? Doesn't that fly in the face of the textbook definition of inflation causation?

DANFORTH:

1) Why do you call 23% what everyone else calls 30%? (Don't link me to websites that tell me it's inclusive. I know that.)


Dan, that is the reason. If you already know this, what is the question for? Why would "everyone else" call it 30% when the people who know the most about it call it 23%? Why don't we split the difference, call it 26.5%, and move on?
2) If all the payroll taxes and income taxes are already embedded in the prices we currently pay, why do we pay income taxes and payroll taxes separately?


Great question. Under the Fair Tax you would only pay once. And instead of being taxed on every last cent you earn, you would only be taxed on what you spend.

3) The FT is revenue-neutral. That means any tax savings I see in my paycheck will be paid elsewhere. Where will I be paying those taxes instead?


You will be paying your fair share of the tax whenever you go out and spend your hard earned dollars.

4) If I bought a $1,000 iBook on Monday, the FT was enacted on Tuesday, and I bought the type of iBook on Wednesday, how much would I pay?


Why would you want an iBook? I don't know how many "days" it would take. Visit the website and learn some more.

5) How can you "keep your paycheck" and have prices remain "essentially the same"? Doesn't that fly in the face of the textbook definition of inflation causation?


If everyone kept their paycheck and did not spend a dime, we may have some problems. I don't see that happening, although the overeating problem in the US would go down significantly.


There are flaws in everything are there not? Why would a small group of people be so vehemently opposed to changing the current system? Maybe they benefit from the current system and would not benefit from a new one.

What is so great about the current system that makes this group of people try to slander and smear the idea of a fair tax? Maybe it is great to them because it is so convoluted that it is nearly indecipherable to most of the population and they can exploit this fact.

What percentage of the population looks forward to tax season? Would it be the tax payers or the tax preparers? Most Americans cannot tell you how much they PAID, but are giddy when they get a measly 500$ or 1000$ BACK. Ever heard this... "I had to pay my CPA 350$, but he got me back over 1000$!" I agree that we need to pay taxes, but the current system is too onerous and needs to be radically simplified. The Fair Tax would do just that.

None of this addresses the underground economy or tourism which would add millions to the coffers. What about all those rich guys that hide money overseas? They aren't paying Federal tax on that money, only a small amount when they buy that Ferrari. This would tax them on the whole Ferrari, not just the State Sales tax portion of it.

There would be no need to hide money overseas which would leave billions of dollars in our banks instead of the Cayman Islands banks.

Cheers,
Walt

"If you already know this, what is the question for?"

Because the FT thinks it's allowed to use a formula no one else gets to use. If you go into your hometown store and buy a dollar item, you'll probably fork over, say, $1.07. They call that a 7% sales tax. If it costs $1.30, it's a 30% tax. The city with the 7% sales tax doesn't get to call it a 6.5% inclusive tax; why should the FTers get to call a 30% sales tax a 23% "inclusive" tax?

Oh, and the FT suggests states collect their "income" taxes at the retail level as well. So that 30% is more like 35%. And you didn't think that 7% sales tax was going to vanish, did you? So now it's 42%.

"Great question. Under the Fair Tax you would only pay once."

That doesn't answer my question, which, again, is this: the contention of the FTers is we already pay these taxes, embedded in the prices of the items we buy. But that's not true: we pay them in the prices AND at our work. Since the FT is revenue neutral, we'd have to pay our work taxes in the prices we pay at the retail level. If you're only paying "once", that bill is a whopper.

"Why would you want an iBook? I don't know how many "days" it would take. "

I don't think you understood the question. How much, at the checkout counter, would a $1000 item before the FT, cost AFTER the FT?

"If everyone kept their paycheck and did not spend a dime, we may have some problems."

Ya think? Consumer spending is 70% of the economy; you just put in a system that punishes consumer spending. You're also missing the point of that question as well: If, suddenly, consumers had their tax withholdings as spendable cash, yes, there would be buying. But without a commensurate rise in goods available, it's just more money chasing the same goods. That's the textbook definition of what causes inflation.

"Why would a small group of people be so vehemently opposed to changing the current system? Maybe they benefit from the current system and would not benefit from a new one."

Or maybe they recognize a promise of something for nothing when they see it.

"What is so great about the current system that makes this group of people try to slander and smear the idea of a fair tax?"

Who said anyone is slandering or smearing it? The FT imposes a 30% sales tax, but calls it a 23% tax. That's not a smear, that's pointing out the fact no other entity that tacks on 30% to the price of the item gets to call it 23%. Nor is it a smear to bring up the fact the FT charges intra-governmental taxes, something not done today. They also pretend prices will drop 20% overnight, yet claim the taxes they will still pay are currently embedded in those prices. It's not slander to point out those two points are contradictory. And it's certainly fair to bring up enforcement, something the FT sights avoid. With such a high premium on new transactions, lines will have to be drawn: will a new car cost the premium, but a used car won't? Huge fortunes could be won or lost. And since the incentives for a black market will skyrocket, the government will eventually require crosschecking. If every transaction becomes a taxable event, the IRS (or rather, the FTRS) will have to be empowered to investigate every transaction.

"I agree that we need to pay taxes, but the current system is too onerous and needs to be radically simplified."

I'll agree with you there. But every time they meet to "simplify" the code, they add another 5,000 pages.

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