If it comes down to a choice between Hillary or Obama I will vote for Obama.
I already know what I'd be getting with Hillary -- more of GWB's policies on everything. Maybe there's a chance Obama won't let himself become corporate-owned like we already know Hillary is.

I will wait and see the republican runner then I will decide after several debates.

Obama will be no different than Hillary, other than one is a much better talker.

I can say for certain that I will NOT vote for Hillary but Obama can get my vote.

Edwards dropping out just gave Obama the edge needed to move well past Hillary.

Most of the Edwards votes will now move them towards Obama.

"Obama will be no different than Hillary, other than one is a much better talker."

Money - I don't totally agree with there being no differences between them. But I think the fact that Obama is a better talker, as you put it, is actually a more valuable asset than you're giving credit.

As Obama tried to point out, but got drowned out by Clinton spin, Ronald Reagan's ability to use his charisma and speaking prowess allowed him to get a lot more done by being able to convince more people his agenda was the right one.

So not to get into a debate about the end result of what Reagan did, I think that ability in Obama is actually a very positive attribute.

It's way too early to know for sure who's going to get the 2025 delegates needed to win the Dem nomination.

Right now, as of January 29, Clinton has 232 delegates to Obama's 158.

Further, Clinton is leading Obama by double digits in the big ticket states.

This tells me that Obama has been out-stratigized (if that's not a word, at least you know what I mean) and this stuff about Obama's momentum is being manufactured by the media.

Speaking of which . . .

CNNPolitics.com is keeping a running tally of delegates for both Dems and Repubs if anybody wants to keep track, fast and easy.

Twin - but the landscape seems to be changing pretty rapidly, as the article points out...

"Barack Obama has now cut the gap with Hillary Clinton to 6 percentage points among Democrats nationally in the Gallup Poll Daily tracking three-day average, and interviewing conducted Tuesday night shows the gap between the two candidates is within a few points. Obama's position has been strengthening on a day-by-day basis. As recently as Jan. 18-20, Clinton led Obama by 20 points."

If Edwards should endorse Obama, it might be pretty close to dead even.

SANANTONIO

I think you're counting votes and I'm counting delegates.

I like Obama but if he has any momentum, he'd better ramp it up.

I was surprised to learn that a number of those big ticket delegates have already committed. I'm not sure how that works but it doesn't sound good for Obama.

Hillary was handed a lemon in Florida but I have this strange feeling she's going to turn it into lemonade before the convention. In short, Obama is going to get schnookered.

I never underestimate the political muscle of the Clintons. Obama just hasn't been around long enough to wield that kind of power and he'll be the worse off for it.

Unfortunate, I know, but experience really does count when you're trying to win a nomination.

Most of the pundits seem to agree there is "Nomentum" at the moment for either candidate, which is why Obama has discarded the "new kind of politics" for new attacks lately.

Also why the pro-Obama rags like the Huff Post are chock full of Clinton bashing today.

With John McCain now as the presumptive opponent, however, and national security his mantra, Clinton has the edge in CinC qualifications over Obama, she being considered a defence intellectual by the military and by John McCain.

Barack, er, well, not so much.

Clinton is associated with successful economics in America as well.

Also, a McCain -Clinton race where they are friends and though the policy fight will be tough, it won't be personal.

The conservative talk-show folks will also be marginalized as they don't like John much better than they do Hillary.

Clinton/Obama 08!

she being considered a defence intellectual by the military and by John McCain.

"defence intellectual"

I wouldn't mind an analysis of that, Corky, or is it just as meaningless in the circumstances as it sounds?

"defence intellectual"

Is it in relationship to her defense of Bubba? Lord knows, she learned alot during that period.

Clinton is associated with successful economics in America as well.


Those being?

"Obama will be no different than Hillary, other than one is a much better talker.

I can say for certain that I will NOT vote for Hillary but Obama can get my vote."

This makes absolutely no sense at all.
You say there is no difference between them but that you would vote for one but not the other.
Irrational hatred of Hillary Clinton planted there by 15 years of right wing brainwashing is sure paying off.
Half this country HATES Hillary Clinton but most could not give you a logical explanation about why.
Vague reasons like "she's a bitch" etc. replace thoughts.

The race is down to 3.

McCain
Obama
Clinton

I really don't care at this point who wins.

Woods impressed by Barack Obama

Jan 30 01:39 PM US/Eastern


Tiger Woods says he has been impressed with Democratic Party presidential candidate Barack Obama and believes he is an inspiration to many in the United States.
Asked for his views on the senator from Illinois, who like himself has an African-American father, ahead of the Dubai Desert Classic, Woods replied: "I've seen him speak. He's extremely articulate, very thoughtful.

"I'm just impressed at how well, basically all politicians really do, how well they think on their feet. Especially those debates. It's pretty phenomenal to see them get their point across.

"But I just think that he's really inspired a bunch of people in our country and we'll see what happens down the road."

""So not to get into a debate about the end result of what Reagan did, I think that ability in Obama is actually a very positive attribute.""

It could be but so far he hasn't demonstrated any ability to really do what he says he will do.
He hasn't impressed in the debates. He's as confused as Hillary on immigration. He stumbled badly when asked when the troops would come home from Iraq. So far he is riding on media hype. We are told he is a great, inspiring leader so we believe he is a great, inspiring leader. There is no real doubt, the media definitely has been helping him gain on Hillary Clinton. When and if he gets the nomination I fear the media will desert their darling in favor of a Republican representing the interests of the owners of that same media.

"But I just think that he's really inspired a bunch of people in our country and we'll see what happens down the road."

Golfers for Obama. Boy, that really convinces me.

I really don't care at this point who wins.

But I do have to say that McCain's VP pick is going to sway me and a lot of people I believe. NOT that I would vote FOR him, but I could vote AGAINST him depending on who he selects.

Wow, that op-ed is really specific.

Clinton is associated with successful economics in America as well.

Those being?

Obama will be no different than Hillary, other than one is a much better talker.

I can say for certain that I will NOT vote for Hillary but Obama can get my vote.

Posted by moneywar



A stunning example of why we elect idiots into office. Let's see ... both are the same (one speaks better), but only one gets his vote. Glad to see voters who have principled stands on the issues and who vote accordingly, and don't let personality cloud their vote.

Good grief. Let's just give it to McCain and get it over with.

The fact is:

THERE IS NO CONSERVATIVE IN THE RACE!!!!!

That is a victory in and of itself!

Let's ALL rejoice!

Apparently Romney isn't a threat to McCain any more???
Has someone heard a fat lady singing?

Lol, Victory Flag for MP

Tax

If you somehow missed Clintonomics, you can use The Google to find out all about it.

THERE IS NO CONSERVATIVE IN THE RACE!!!!!

Posted by Manypaths

Very true. If McCain and Clinton are the choices after Tuesday, I say let's hold the General Election on Wednesday. Why screw around for 9 months when there isn't any difference between the 2.

But I do have to say that McCain's VP pick is going to sway me and a lot of people I believe. NOT that I would vote FOR him, but I could vote AGAINST him depending on who he selects.


Posted by Manypaths at 2008-01-31 10:58 AM | Reply


AP- 1/31/08

Sen John McCain has announced that Joseph Lieberman (I) is his new running mate. It should be noted however that his first 3 choices "Jewy Jewenstien", "Hymie Greene", and "Heebie McHeebenstien" all declined the offer.

I'm going to be stuck voting for the lesser of two evils again. Can anyone remember having 2 decent choices?
How about you leftwing loons that voted back in 1980...Was it an easy choice to vote for/against Reagan?

Hill-arious is going down......oh wait a minute, that's not happening. But, she will NOT win the Dem nomination. If she does happen to win it, there will be a Republican President elected.

"Jewy Jewenstien", "Hymie Greene", and "Heebie McHeebenstien"

I never knew 101 was really Jon Stewart!

Why screw around for 9 months when there isn't any difference between the 2.

I have no idea what they would debate.

Clinton should come out and appear upset by McCain's success as she was

"Considering offering McCain the VP slot on her ticket because we think so much alike........"

Bill has already planted a similar seed. It would be good fun to watch.

However, I don't think it will be Clinton and I think John would be able to beat Obama. Just my hunch at this point in time......

In hindsight Chair, (I am sure that I am going to get drilled for it) but 1992 offered 2 decent choices.

Bush 1 wasn't a horrible President and Clinton ended up being the most approved of President ever.

We had 2 decent choices that year.

Reagan or Mondale? Are you kidding me?

Reagan or Carter? uh.......

Carter or Ford? Jesus, what were they thinking....

"I really don't care at this point who wins."

Posted by Manypaths

At least the next president will be able to pronounce "nuclear."

If you somehow missed Clintonomics

Like NAFTA and GATT?

""Was it an easy choice to vote for/against Reagan?"

Yes.

Apparently Romney isn't a threat to McCain any more???
Has someone heard a fat lady singing?

Posted by danni


May I suggest some coffee?

Uh, yeah, the fat lady is on set break. Resting up for Wednesday's finalle....

His NAFTA and GATT policies led to the outflow of American jobs so I am not going to give him any credit on job ratings. Of course that piece conveniently misses the tech bubble, and it skips that fact that much of that legislation and policy was tailored by the republicans in the congress.

I've said this before (actually I was more specific in my original statement), but I think it bears repeating. Please keep in mind this is strictly my opinion.

If Obama gets the houes on Penn Ave, we as a nation are in for some trouble. (same as before)
If any of the other candidates get that House (this is a change from my original statement), we as a nation are sca-rooed.

TAXMAN shouldn't we at least expect an in depth discussion about NAFTA at the debate tonight?
I want them to really discuss:
NAFTA
Immigration
Iraq
THE ECONOMY STUPID!

"I've said this before (actually I was more specific in my original statement), but I think it bears repeating."

No, it doesn't bear repeating, it didn't bear saying in the first place.

Has someone heard a fat lady singing?

Posted by danni

Your neighbors.

I agree Danni. I don't like either's position on the expansion of NAFTA into Peru.

I think we can guess what their outlooks on immigration are going to be considering they are both pandering to the hispanic voter.

As for Iraq, I think that horse has taken a pretty significant beating and I don't think it will play out much tonight.

Bill has been quoting as saying we need to slow down the economy and Hillary seems to be supporting protectionst measures. I am no fan of protectionism. The economy is becoming more global every day and if sit in the corner and pout we are going to be left behind.

we as a nation are sca-rooed.


Hasn't the worst President in our history taught you anything?

Take it away Jerry:

"We Will Get By. We Will Survive!"

every silver lining has a touch of grey....

My biggest concern with Obama is that I don't think he can handle the mess he will inherit in Jan 09. After watching the debates (my opinion may change after tonight) I feel Hillary Clinton is best suited to handle cleaning up the huge mess that is waiting.

Don't forget all of Clinton's last minute pardons. He was a sleazy SOB.

I supported him in '92 and '96. All that shit about building a bridge to the 21st century was stupid. After Monica, I couldn't wait for him to go away. If his wife is elected, it'll be like The Return Of The Living Dead.

Hi Danni,

Well Clinton looses across the board if those are your issues.

1. She Laughed about NAFTA

2. You saw her stand on giving Licenses to Illegals (Something From SNL Comes To Mind)

3. She marched "Lock Step" with Bush on Iraq's War

4. She is Pimped by K Street Lobbyist as far as the Economy.


So those are all the facts, What Say You ?

-Sarge

Hillary seems to be supporting protectionist measures.

Hoover revisited.

Only problem Sarge, Obama is hardly any different. He spoke out against the Iraq war years ago but today I don't think his position is any different from Hillary's.
I haven't heard him say anything significant about NAFTA.
I have heard that he supports DLs for illegal immigrants.
He supports this idiotic "stimulus package."
K-street?? OK, maybe he scores a point, an important point too.
Still, I think that we as Dems got short changed by the media's focus on Clinton/Obama relegating Edwards to the side lines.
I'm beginning to think that we are really now deciding between which Republican will represent the Democratic Party.

Bill Clinton just said in a speech that we needed to "slow down the economy to prevent global warming."

As long as Bill is pouding the pavement for Hillary, it can't be helping her much.

Bill Clinton just said in a speech that we needed to "slow down the economy to prevent global warming."
Posted by rightisright

I just saw that. Unbelievable.

"NEW JOBS FOR TOMMORROW!"

"More like this, Tax"

A little less slanted?

October 9, 2000
THE 2000 CAMPAIGN: THE ECONOMY; Roots of Prosperity Reach Past Clinton Years

At least he's revealing their agenda (hey, hill-arious just reported their net worth at between $17 million to $56 million)

"between $17 million to $56 million)"

Gosh, that really narrows it down. My bet is it is 55.9 million.

Has someone heard a fat lady singing?

Posted by danni

Your neighbors.

Posted by LeeAtwater at 2008-01-31 11:31 AM | Reply


I wish I could award 2 funny flags for this contribution. Oh wait, I can, I'll just need to log out of this handle and log back in to BuffaloBob.

"Hmmmmm What Is Up With Hillary?"

I think Hillary didn't think Bill had completely handed the nomination over to Barack so she is just trying to put him over the top. She's doing a pretty good job too.

hill-arious just reported their net worth at between $17 million to $56 million
Posted by ride_on

It's nice to see her nail down a number. 17M this morning and depending on how the futures trading goes today, maybe 56M tonight.

"I wish I could award 2 funny flags for this contribution."

What a sense of humor. It was mildly amusing, hardly a double flag post.

Danni,

That is my point, she is so Calculating, Obama's stand was clear Hillary's was "WTF Did She Say" was she for it or against it. Obama stand was about safety of the roads for them to be accountable which to me I want to know a track down who Crashes in to My Lincoln Damn It! As far as the Economy, the Stimulus Package will have a 1/3 effect on what is needed and all other options are limited on the "Short Term"; Clinton is Owned by those who got America in this "Drowning Pool" with the Economy Namely Wal Mart and Other Out Sourcing Mongers.

-Sarge

sarge
ms clinton is tryin to out black obama---some of the black supporters she has are showin their true colors -green for envy and money-the black vote in 2008 will mean even less than it has in the years before -dems get 90% no matter who they run--what do you think of andrew youngs statement"bill clinton has had more black women then obama"i thought we were votin for president not pimp in chief
jasman

sarge
we have more in common than i thought i drive a lincoln too
jasman

"I wish I could award 2 funny flags for this contribution."

What a sense of humor. It was mildly amusing, hardly a double flag post.

Posted by danni at 2008-01-31 11:59 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Quit showing your jealousy just because you haven't been able to move up to a double wide in your trailer park yet.

Midman:

My sentiments exactly - just give it to McCain! Apparently, many of these people just don't have the common sense to think for themselves. They listen to the media whores who rip Hillary apart day after day and build up Obama - the empty suit. Ah, and the great endorsement by Ted Kennedy - has anymore noticed that Hillary is substantially ahead in the polls in Massachusetts. Gee, I wonder how that happened. And by the way, she is also ahead in a majority of the Feb. 5 states. Yet, I don't hear the media talking about Hillary's lead. If it were Obama in the lead you would be hearing about it 24-7. They downplay Hillary and puff up the empty suit (you would think he was the second coming of Christ). Also, they were quick to mention that in Connecticut, Obama and Hillary are tied in the polls. However, they conveniently forget to mention that she's ahead of Obama from 8 to 20 points in virtually all of the other states. Just amazing - so you are right - just give it to McCain.

""Quit showing your jealousy just because you haven't been able to move up to a double wide in your trailer park yet.""

New material needed here, doncha think?

SASS

The media has done and will do everything they possibly can to trash Clinton and support Obama so that their cash registers will ring all the way to the Convention.

Their interest is about ratings = dollars, nothing more...... well, except for the reporters that swoon at his every word.

Sarge,

Among both Clinton and Obama's biggest financial donors is Goldman Sachs.

Sachs stands to lose billions if Clinton's mortgage bill including penalties for these big mortgage companies is enacted.

Obama did not include those same penalties in his package, so Sachs is protected.

Now, who is the Senator from Wall Street?

The media has done and will do everything they possibly can to trash Clinton and support Obama so that their cash registers will ring all the way to the Convention.

Their interest is about ratings = dollars, nothing more


"So!! It's a PROFIT thing, huh?!"

-Steve Martin "The Jerk".

""Obama is on the record as being for DL's for illegals, a position he would have to defend in the general election. Clinton is not.""

Corky, don't you think it is time for her to state a clear position??? I hope this debate forces both to say clearly where they stand on many issues.
Hillary says NAFTA needs fixing.....what does she intend to do??? Fix it how???
Immigration.....clear answers about the border and what to do with 22 million....and that STUPID Kennedy/McCain bill should have disqualified McCain from even running for president. It was wrong in so many ways.
THE ECONOMY STUPID!!!! Both Barack and Hillary need to first rethink their support for these rebate checks and start talking about WAGES!!!!
Do they see that the problem we have is that people have no money to buy shit with because they can't get equity money any longer and so.....now we need to start raising wages along with inflation or else the foreclosure crisis will grow to unbelievable proportions.

""The Clintons went and got the House Negroes Task Force to Stop The Independent And Free Thinking Field Negro From Escaping And Making It Out On thier Own !!""

Just when I think I might be agreeing somewhat with you Sarge....you put some hate speech up like that.....disgusting. And then Obamaistas whine that it is Clintons supporters dividing the party.

Hillary is welcome to Maxine Waters' support.

Maxine Waters wants a White Woman to intimidate.

She'd have no pull with Obama.

Danni,

This is far from Hate and if you are not Black you'll never understand. The Point is Weakness and crippling Free Thought,Responsibility, and Action !! These are the same Blacks that case on Bill Cosby. They do not want Black to advance only to Whine about it so someone's elese fault.

-Sarge

Re Drivers Licenses: Anybody with any common sense at all should be FOR anybody who drives being licensed in some form for doing so, otherwise they are a danger to the public.

That's what Obama said. Hillary was for it before she was against it. How typical.


Last night:
Cynthia McFadden: "Can you control Bill?"

Hillary: "Of course!"

Now we know perfectly well that that is either a total lie or she is totally delusional.

Danni-

"Both Barack and Hillary need to first rethink their support for these rebate checks and start talking about WAGES!!!!"

What are we going to do? Mandate companies to increase everyone's salary? Then watch them all pick up and leave or close altogether? Will we then mandate them to stay open? Fix prices?

This sounds like the politics of Zimbabwe more than anything reasonable.

CORKY,
did you catch the joke at the bottom of your USA Today article:

""What I want to make sure is that states aren't working at cross purposes with us and enabling the kind of conduct we're enforcing against," Chertoff told The Associated Press by telephone from London.""

Enforcing.....hahahaha....sure they are.

Er...."They are only taking jobs Americans won't do."

I like Huckabee's idea the best. Take the $150B and build some public works projects we desperately need. Thousands will be directly employed, hundreds of thousands more will see more work in some form or another. Those people will see the benefit of a long term salary (much more than a one-time refund check), companies will start selling more because people make more. It spurs the whole economy relatively efficiently seeing as how lower income people spend money more efficiently on more local goods. We COULD give everyone a new Chinese made TV, which helps the TV company's bottom line and has a slight effect on the stock price while providing Chinese people with the jobs and long term purchasing power. Or we could help everyone long term by making jobs and creating vital infrastructure.

But then Huckabee starts talking about social issues and I have to leave the room.

""What are we going to do?""

Rebuild infrastructure which will employ thousands at fairly high wage jobs.

Hire more teachers.

Cut unemployment, create a tight job market and wages rise. Supply and demand.
Oh...better shut that border too.

""But then Huckabee starts talking about social issues and I have to leave the room.""

You are right about that and when he starts talking about "fair tax" which is nonsense.
He is funny though, saw him on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart....he is a really witty guy.

Kevin, how come it is "the politics of Zimbabwe" when I say it but not when Huckabee says it???

I like Huckabee's idea the best. Take the $150B and build some public works projects we desperately need. Thousands will be directly employed, hundreds of thousands more will see more work in some form or another.

it's a shame Bush's version of the WPA only applies to Iraq.

The fair tax is a hell of a lot better than the convoluted, easily manipulated tax code we've got now. And I personally like the idea of having control over my tax liability. I consume less, I pay less. Period. You want starbucks every day, a big SUV to drive alone in, a vacation every other month, buy new shoes every other weak, etc., you should pay more. If you are starving without a job, you only buy what you need and pay very little...maybe it is even exempt altogether.

Maybe it appears as though people at the top would be getting a break...until you use your brain and figure out that the rich simply pay to open and exploit loopholes. In the end, under out "progressive" system, they pay less.

Nothing nutty about wanting to make the playing field level again on at least SOME level. No one said it has to be set in stone, thereafter.

"Kevin, how come it is "the politics of Zimbabwe" when I say it but not when Huckabee says it?"

Danni-

You said we need to increase wages. That's all you said. I asked you how? Huckabee said we should invest in infrastructure. How do you expect anyone to assume you meant the same thing? Did you?

Danni-

"Hire more teachers."

How about we do away with the Dept. of education altogether? Those matching funds, and that is all they really are, come with so many strings attached as to jeopardize and politicize education, which I think we all agree is way too important to hand over to pandering bureaucrats. Look at places like Madison, Wisconsin who decided a few years back to say "screw you" to all federal money. Guess what happened? The schools improved.

The "Fair Tax' would immediately create a depression in the US. The B.S. about the percentage of tax that would be required alone is enough to sink it. Claims of 27-30% are completely unrealistic and figures up around 50% are more realistic. The other thing about the "fair tax" is that it is being sold as if we, in the working class, would not be getting a huge tax increase under the plan. Of course we would. Presently, the wealthy pay the bulk of federal income taxes, after installation of the "fair tax" they would pay much, much less.....and we, in the working class would have to make up the difference. The government is going to require huge amounts of money to operate and it has to come from somewhere. I choose ...the wealthy.
Also, the "fair tax" provices no incentive for the wealthy to invest in job creating enterprises. Income taxes do, especially when they are fine tuned to do so.

I just love it when the federal government effectively earmarks our state and local education budgets for us. Of course the schools that can get the money to be matched have an advantage. The struggling schools have to spend all their money on federal mandates and preventing litigation created by the feds, leaving no money to be matched. Yet they still have to produce on tests or they get LESS money?

The more the federal gov't does for education, the worst education gets.

Danni-

Where is your data to support that? Sounds like doom and gloom BS to me. Come back with a REAL criticism. Not guess-work. And even Hillary says Warren Buffett pays less than I do under the current system. Not sure what you are talking about.

""I just love it when the federal government effectively earmarks our state and local education budgets for us.""

Isn't this something which has become much worse under "No Child Left Behind"??? Many teachers hate it. Most parents hate it. From what I hear the teachers are forced to "teach to the test."
This isn't a partisan attack though because that bill was supported by both parties. It's a disaster.

"sn't this something which has become much worse under "No Child Left Behind"?"

Absolutely. It expanded the role of the feds, who prove time and time again they are not up to the task.

""Where is your data to support that? Sounds like doom and gloom BS to me. Come back with a REAL criticism. Not guess-work.""

We already had that debate here and there were lots of links posted. I'm not making up the numbers, just repeating what experts have said.
The "Fair TAx" would be disastrous.

"The "Fair TAx" would be disastrous."

According the some "experts". But are those the same experts who said Reagan would eliminate the middle class? Or who said that having a trade deficit was the mark of a doomed economy?

Doom and gloom.

I can give out links by "experts" too, Danni. But lets just use our own brains for a second. Convoluted mess of a tax code that no one but rich people understand v. one consumption rate for all and salaries are free of tax. Its a no brainer.

If we end up with less money in the treasury...SPEND LESS!!!! Everyone can live their lives secure that THEY have the control.

The "Fair TAx" would be disastrous. Posted by danni

What we need is a Fair Debate.

The first step is to determine our indebtedness as a Nation.

Open the books and let the sunshine in.

And guess what else? We'd have a hell of a lot better indicator of the economy's health under that system.

"We'd have a hell of a lot better indicator of the economy's health under that system."

Perhaps we could determine that we were in a depression quicker but that wouldn't do us much good. Regressive tax systems can't work in a country where the wealthy is concentrated at the top. You either use taxes to keep money circulating or you end up in a depression. Can't you see that is what is happening right now because of the regressive effects of Bush's tax cuts for the rich?

"I should also add a personal note and welcome back our favorite Airedale and King of Caps, the Sarge."

Thanks OZARK !

-Sarge

Danni-

Do you understand economics at all?

"Perhaps we could determine that we were in a depression quicker but that wouldn't do us much good."

How would having a great and fast economic indicator be a hindrance in any way? Do you realize what the role of the Fed is? How is making their job much easier going to harm anyone?

"Regressive tax systems can't work in a country where the wealthy is concentrated at the top."

You call it regressive. I call our system effectively regressive. My data is real and supported by even the democrats. Yours is doom and gloom guess-work. One system is easily understood by people and empowers them, the other no one understands except the rich who every year successfully lobby for more loopholes.

"You either use taxes to keep money circulating or you end up in a depression. Can't you see that is what is happening right now because of the regressive effects of Bush's tax cuts for the rich?"

You have no idea what you are talking about, Danni. How is a fair-tax preventing money from circulating? We live in a consumer society. And no, the Bush tax cuts are NOT what is driving the current recession. Lack of regulatory oversight into lending and hedge funds, inflation of energy prices, and people NOT SAVING THEIR MONEY is what led us here.

Clinton Is A Joke !!!

-Sarge

Posted by Sarge


Sarge is supporting Obama... wow that is shocking? This is almost as shocking as TonyRoma saying he is supporting Obama as well...

Never saw it coming.

one consumption rate (Fair Tax) for all and salaries are free of tax. Its a no brainer. kevin23

No need to point out the fact that people with no brains support this notion.

If you were brainier you would argue for a simpler tax code and try a consumption tax on imported goods. The VAT could be implemented, but this experimentation should be done is small doses.

Cutting taxes on small business and Zero Taxes on goods manufactured in the US including agricultural goods would provide an incentive to invest in America. Stabilize interest rates for that investment and we will return to the Business of America.

We have a crumbling infrastructure and civil defense is woefully inadequate. While we need to correct the instability in the Middle East and implement diplomacy we do not need 65,000 troops in Germany or 50,000 troops in Japan.

It's time to Trim the Sails and proceed on a steady course.

But feel free to jump off the cliff. We won't miss your opinion.

Mikey,

Glad to see you and Lisa can still clown around after all this time!

Rogers and I are on separate parts of the penisinsula.

Ozark-

"No need to point out the fact that people with no brains support this notion."

Wow. You really did your research didn't you, genius? Where is your link to support that?

And no, having a "simpler" tax code mixed with federal consumption taxes make thing MORE complicated for ordinary people. The goal of government should be to make people feel secure about their liabilities, so they can act appropriately without being surprised. It keeps the economy more honest.

And who will write this "simpler" code? The same people who wrote the current one, I'm sure. Horrible idea. We need to go back to the honest basics and go from there. We don't need to keep the status-quo...the status-quo is exactly what the problem is.

Hey Rob,

I'm For McCain or Obama Period !!

I was for John before Your Furious Leader GWB Pulled The "Black Baby" Card in SC !!

Hillary is fully and totally Unchecked by Lobbyist and would Lie Steal and Cheat for her Ends.

John even though I'm against this War he would be Great Over All for America !

Obama has the very same Positive effect on America.

-Sarge

"you would argue for a simpler tax code"

It is nearly impossible to simplify the tax code given the fact that it is no longer used simply to raise revenue.

The tax code is now used to legislate public policy. Instead of making things legal or illegal, the government now either taxes you to death or refrains from doing so based on what they think is right for society. On the other hand you then have people attempting to exploit holes in the system, so complex definitions and regulations regarding what is or is not contained in a provision become necessary.

To simplify the tax code, a fundamental change in what it is used for is required. And now that the beast is there, bureaucrats have no idea how to keep the initiatives intact without it.

Hillary can't beat McCain, there are too many haters.

Obama can and will beat anyone if he gets the nomination.

Easy enough choice, given those dynamics.

Corky-

People of all income brackets will have CONTROL over how much they are taxed. Why would you assume to know their liabilities? Your link is fatally flawed in trying to superimpose one system over the other despite fundamental differences. Many costs will go down and salaries will be up. If you add investment vehicles to the tax, it can make it more fair. Inside a FAIR framework, you'd be amazed at what you could do. And because people understand it and have control over it, they can be more efficient economic players rather than victims of misinformation (my favorite: buy a house for the tax break).

Kevin-

Under the "fair" tax, those who spend all their money (the poor and middle class) will have 100% of their income subjected to tax. While those who save most of their money (the rich) will have virtually none of their income subjected to tax. How is that "fair?"

#23

Did you check out Bruce Bartlett's pdf critique at that same link?

Come on, Joe, since the poor will understand the "fair" tax and have "control" over it, they will be able to magically save about half their earnings. Why can't you understand this.

Kevin from Winston Strawn

I'm For McCain or Obama Period !!

And if one were up against the other?

Hillary Clinton is poised for a major rack-up of Delegates next Tuesday and my belief, will win the nomination for the Dem party. Now with Edwards gone, I happily join her camp. Please guys, stop assuming Edwards supporters are all jumping into the Obama train...color us "uninspired" by rhetoric and political showmanship. I'm in the camp--and there are many of us--who like our horses seasoned and weathered and with an impressive track record of accomplishment and experience--just like this beautiful mare I know they call Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Go Hillary!

--just like this beautiful mare

A work horse, not a show horse, lol.

And if one were up against the other?


I'll be interested in the answer to that one....

Monte-

What's with the Winston Strawn references? Did they keep you from winning 35% over a sore back?

Nope, Joe, they didn't. But since it's really none of your business, you'll just have to wonder.

I'm in the camp--and there are many of us--who like our horses seasoned and weathered
Posted by medusa

Another City girl who doesn't know the difference between a horse and a jackass.

"none of your business"

Since you used the reference in a post addressed to me, I assumed you'd explain it. Didn't mean to interfere while you tell jokes to yourself, carry on Munty!

What's with the Winston Strawn references? Did they keep you from winning 35% over a sore back?

Posted by JOE at 2008-01-31 02:39 PM

Kevin and Monte got in a pissing match yesterday over who was the better lawyer, Kevin dropped that he worked at WS into the mix and Monte then said that he doesn't bill by the hour (thereby thinking that he is creating mystery...)

If either of you were my associates I would fire your ass for being, well, lame.

That was a pretty poor brief, RightO. If you were one of my associates, I'd probably have to let you go. Hell, if you were one of paralegals, you'd be packing.

Joe-

"While those who save most of their money (the rich) will have virtually none of their income subjected to tax."

Who says poor people can't save their money? Isn't it just as bad, results-wise, to have a system that encourages people to live on the edge so they need to be bailed out of every emergency?

Again, you're trying to super-impose one system over the other without accounting for fundamental differences.

And if one were up against the other?

Getting Out Of Iraq would be the Deciding Factor for me.

-Sarge

"Didn't mean to interfere while you tell jokes to yourself, carry on Munty!

Posted by JOE at 2008-01-31 02:44 PM"

Sorry, Joe. Kevin and I got into it a little bit yesterday, and to prove himself he disclosed that he worked at Winston Slaveholder Strawn. He then wanted to meet me at the street corner to duke it out, and he got really pissy after I refused to disclose where I worked. It was rather amusing really. He didn't go so far as to claim he pulled his own teeth and set his own fractures, but it was close. (Do you still have that post, by the way? That is an all time DR classic that should be archived sometwhere.)

C'mon Monte, repeating my retort reinforces the lameness of your little spat with Kev yesterday...you can do much better than that.

Getting Out Of Iraq would be the Deciding Factor for me.

-Sarge

Posted by Sarge


So why even say you're supporting McCain... You're an Obama supporter and that's it... and its shocking.

You're fired, RightO. Pack your belongings - you're out.

"over who was the better lawyer"

Rightocenter, you're wrong. It was not over who was "better", it was over him being an arrogant prick about his own "success". Monte has repeatedly called himself a "successful attorney" from a "top-tier school" as he bashed a law student for being a "pathetic loser" from a "third tier school". I guess he was insulting them in the most snoody way possible. I simply said I doubted he was a lawyer. He proceeded to follow me everywhere and call me names. Now he bashes my firm in its totality. I'm just ignoring his posts now. He just wants a reaction. Sad really...living life like that.

I don't understand the hatred for Senator Clinton (coming from the left) I completely understand why the right doesn't like her. I actually have done some research on her record and career and she seems to fit perfectly in the Democratic party. Yes Obama is young and energized and great candidate. If Hillary doesn't get the nomination then I will vote for Obama. The people that are for Obama seem to be more for him then the principles of the Democratic party. I say this only because they say they will not vote for Clinton is Obama does not get the nomination which is weird since they are so close on many of the issues. If Hillary Clinton can not get the backing of the Democratic Party she is not going to win. Democrat's need to come home to the party. Yes support your first choice but in the end support the party.

"Yes support your first choice but in the end support the party."

Stuart46-

There are 300M people in America, hundreds of vital issues, and only two parties. Anyone who thinks one party is their perfect match is kidding themselves. Bragging about being a straight-ticket-voter is like bragging that you don't read.

Yes support your first choice but in the end support the party.

Posted by stuart46


Just about sums up the Liberal Left nowadays...

Jesus Crist on a Cracker, Kevin. You've been her for one or two fucking days. Please post all those times I "repeatedly" called myself a "successful" attorney (as if being successful is something horrible to admit, I mean, fuck, it ain't really that hard to be a successful attorney is it?) Also, while you're at it, let's see even one of my posts that claims I attened a "top tier" law school. Or be exposed a a fucking lunatic.

By the way, my fucking with joe about his school goes way back, before your time, and he knows I'm just fucking with him. He goes to a fine school, and he doesn't need your sorry ass coming to his defense, kid.

My post:

If either of you were my associates I would fire your ass for being, well, lame.

Your retort:

If you were one of my associates, I'd probably have to let you go.

My response:

C'mon Monte, repeating my retort reinforces the lameness of your little spat with Kev yesterday

Your ultimate retort:

You're fired, RightO. Pack your belongings - you're out.

Clever.

There are 300M people in America, hundreds of vital issues, and only two parties. Anyone who thinks one party is their perfect match is kidding themselves. Bragging about being a straight-ticket-voter is like bragging that you don't read.



not a perfect match but I am confident in saying the Democratic party makes my views closer then the Republican party

Stuart

Lotsa Lefties feel like Bubba didn't do enough for them in the WH, like he could have waved a Magic Wand or something, and feel right at home joining the Reichwinger's clinically obsessive hate rants against her.

After a public figure has been slimed for years the way she has, there is no longer any consequence for joining the crowd.

Of course, these are the same people that will turn on Obama were he to gain office but compromise on the Left's policies, as he would.

Thanks, RightO! Coming from you, that's means a lot. Really, a lot.

Just about sums up the Liberal Left nowadays...


These comments are so funny. So the the right votes on what then ?????? You want me to beleive that Republicans dont vote the party line. (see Bush 04)

Monte-

The point is, I expect more from you then that...that was an exchange that I would expect from Larry or Crasswar, but not you.

I'll try to do better next time, I really will. (I didn't mean to copy your joke, I really didn't.) I didn't realize how lame it was until you 'splained it to me, I really didn't. Cheers.

Are any of you guy's trip and fall lawyers? The shipping guy just took a header in the john.

"Are any of you guy's trip and fall lawyers?

Monte is!

Wis - sounds like he needs a doctor, not a lawyer. Anyone here a shitter doctor?

If Joe was a "real" lawyer, he'd know this guy needs, if anything, a workers' comp lawyer, not a personal injury lawyer. But they don't teach that in first or second year law school. Or third year, for that matter. In fact, they don't really teach you how to be a lawyer in law school at all.

So why even say you're supporting McCain... You're an Obama supporter and that's it... and its shocking.

Rob that would be the Deciding Factor at the End between the 2. Defeating Hillary and her Crooked Lies McCain gets my Vote. So your "Shocking" seems strange because you know my stand on the Iraq Conflict, so that would be "Shocking" !

So why don't you explain your "Shocking" ?

-Sarge

Obama! Obama! Obama!

In fact, they don't really teach you how to be a lawyer in law school at all.


Posted by mOntecOre at 2008-01-31 03:19 PM

Soooo true, and a little fact that Joe is about to find out.

Give it a rest Munty, I used his comment to take a swipe at you.

Listen to these "experienced" lawyers acting like they know something I don't. I've learned a lot more at work than I have at school. You guys aren't hip to some big secret that nobody knows.

So why don't you explain your "Shocking" ?

-Sarge

Posted by Sarge


Why don't you look at how demographics in South Carolina voted...

Why don't you look at how demographics in South Carolina voted...

I guess Sarge is young and highly educated. That demographic went overwhelmingly to Obama.

That demographic went overwhelmingly to Obama.

Posted by taxman


Did any other... you know... say around 80% of a group?

"Give it a rest Munty, I used his comment to take a swipe at you.

Posted by JOE at 2008-01-31 03:27 PM | Reply"

Translation: I was just trolling.

There's Bill the Broken Record-Stalker-Liar. How pathetic.

"There's Bill the Broken Record-Stalker-Liar. How pathetic."

Poor Joe. He got busted for exactly the same thing he accused me of on the other thread, trolling. Now all he can do is keep repeating "liar."

Talk about pathetic.

Did any other... you know... say around 80% of a group?

I don't get what you are getting at. Why don't you just say what you mean and save everyone a little time.

I don't get what you are getting at.

Yes you do...

Why don't you just say what you mean and save everyone a little time.

More fun this way...

Rob,

Well are you attempting to place Race in this? I could give a Fuck about Obama being Black when it comes to being President !!! That just makes it easy for you to set things aside other than the Facts and Issues. Leading America is about The Best and The Brightest Leaders , Not The Light or The Darker. I would be for McCain if not for the War as I have been since Day One. Weighing Hillary over The War in the "Long Term Aspect" she would do far more harm than Good.

-Sarge

Well are you attempting to place Race in this?

I'm the one doing it... yes... I've started it... without me, it wouldn't be an issue.

give a Fuck about Obama being Black when it comes to being President !!!

Uh-huh

Leading America is about The Best and The Brightest Leaders , Not The Light or The Darker.

Tell that to a certain demographic in South Carolina...

Weighing Hillary over The War in the "Long Term Aspect" she would do far more harm than Good.

Hillary wants to start a withdrawal... McCain will keep it going for years... McCain will keep fighting the war. So this really doesn't make much sense if you are against the war...

Rob,

So you are now the "Rob The Race Baiting A Hole" ? What a trip? Does it feel good to be Bigoted ? What joy do you get from being Slanted and Biased by the Color of a person's Skin? If Obama gets elected it would be a good thing, it would show that America is truly the "Land Of The Free And Home Of The Brave", If her Wins on his Merits Bravo for him and color should not matter. I guess when he Won in a Stated that has a 96% White Population that shit does not matter to you right, how about "That demographic went overwhelmingly to Obama" ?

-Sarge

NO Hillary
NO Clintons
NO Bushes

I refuse to have my country again look we're all total idiots more than willing to be controlled by some self-annointed elite duo-family dynasties with the names Bush and Clinton. It's been nothing but Bushes and Clintons ruling this nation for the last 20 YEARS! Vote for anyone else but don't put another Clinton or Bush back in the White House.

""Give it a rest Munty, I used his comment to take a swipe at you.

Posted by JOE at 2008-01-31 03:27 PM | Reply"

Translation: I was just trolling.

Posted by Bill_OReilly at 2008-01-31 03:44 PM"

In my opinion, Joe really is a dick. I don't think we will hear much dissent about that one. How can you be such a curmudgeon at some a tender age? My guess is that it has something to do with his parents, in particular his daddy. (Maybe daddy wouldn't pay for Lil' Joe's law school, causing him to renounce the Libertarian way that he tries to pretend he supports?)

Why is the focus all on Iraq again when our economy is tanking, our infrastructure is rotting, our borders are being invaded, jobs are being lost by the millions, etc., etc.? Because McCain can't talk about anything else. McCain wants to always switch the topic to IRAQ so he can sound tough on defense -- all Iraq, all the time.

McCain is a loser.

S'cuse me, Chris, I forget.

Which did you hate most about the last Clinton admin, was it the peace or the prosperity?

Which did you hate most about the last Clinton admin, was it the peace or the prosperity?


Posted by Corky at 2008-01-31 04:20 PM

Not to speak for Chris, but I think the sleaze and criminal behavior had something to do with it.

How great would it be to have Obama running the military

...being an ambassador to the world, being gracious and dignified on the world stage, ending the black hole commitments when they are not definitively justified, and funding troops on a practical basis (the best training, equipment and health) instead of just extending their work hours and job duties...

and being stifled by republicans in congress on domestic entitlement programs because they know in 2 years they'll all be running on platforms of lower taxes and less waste.

In the end we'll have less domestic waste AND less foreign waste. And all that without 4 years of name-calling and re-salting of old wounds.

Which did you hate most about the last Clinton admin, was it the peace or the prosperity.

NAFTA

Step 1 in the sellout of our country to the multinational corporations.
Bush is feverishly working on Step 2 -- the NAU.

That wasn't the question ROC, but now that you mention it, your guys have made the Clintons look like pikers as far as honest to goodness corruption and criminal activity that effect Americans are concerned.

"is" concerned.

Corky has a point there, ROC.

Corky-

I happen to agree, and want all of them out of the WH, Clintons and Bushes.

It was just such an obvious retort that I couldn't resist.

was it the peace or the prosperity?

You want to go there again Corky? NAFTA, GATT, WTC Bombing.

So I am reading this book "Legacy of Ashes: The History of the CIA" which tracks the CIA through each presidency. Here is a write up on the authors take of the Clinton years:

Weiner is particularly good on Bill Clinton's cluelessly dysfunctional relationship with the CIA -- and on its consequences. It was a devastating period for the agency, which had enjoyed a particularly favored position when one of its former directors, George H.W. Bush, occupied the White House. Clinton knew next to nothing about R. James Woolsey when he named him director, and the two met precisely twice over the next two years.

"I didn't have a bad relationship with the president," Woolsey said, "I just didn't have one at all."

Clinton further affronted the agency because he "never came to the CIA to pay respects to the dead and wounded" after a Pakistani-born gunman attacked the agency's Langley, Va., offices in 1993. "He sent his wife instead." According to Weiner, "It is hard to exaggerate how much fury this created at headquarters."

That anger was equaled when Clinton ordered an entirely ineffectual response to what the CIA believed was Saddam Hussein's attempt to kill former President Bush and members of his family when they visited Kuwait. The U.S. retaliated with a missile strike on the headquarters of Iraqi intelligence, but as Woolsey told Weiner, "Saddam tries to assassinate former President Bush and President Clinton fires a couple of dozen cruise missiles into an empty building in the middle of the night in Baghdad, thereby retaliating quite effectively against Iraqi cleaning women and night watchmen."

Clinton also refused to accept one of the agency's rare, real-time warnings concerning an impending international catastrophe: the genocide in Rwanda. When he chose to intervene in Haiti to support Jean-Bertrand Aristide, he discovered that the priest-turned-president's major antagonists were drug-dealing Haitian intelligence officials, trained and financed by the CIA. As a consequence, he -- like other chief executives before him (notably Richard Nixon) -- came to believe the agency was riddled with opponents of his policies.

That was one of the reasons Clinton delegated dealing with the CIA to a national security staffer, George J. Tenet. We're still dealing with the consequences of that mistake, though Weiner gives a far more coherent and convincing account of the agency's failures in the run-up to the Iraq war than Tenet did in his own recent memoir.

"Saddam tries to assassinate former President Bush and President Clinton fires a couple of dozen cruise missiles into an empty building in the middle of the night in Baghdad, thereby retaliating quite effectively against Iraqi cleaning women and night watchmen."

Killing innocents is a real sign of peace, isn't it.

"Not to speak for Chris, but I think the sleaze and criminal behavior had something to do with it.

Posted by Rightocenter at 2008-01-31 04:23"

I don't understand why peeps like you get so wound up about a fucking blow job. Newsflash, RightO! Getting a blowjob feels good! Try getting one sometime, and you might understand why Bill did what he did. It really shouldn't be such a big deal. You weren't married to him - Monica wasn't your girlfriend - let Hillary deal with it.

Taxman

Which WTC bombing are you blaming Clinton for? The one where he was in office for a month or the one where he was out of office for nine months.

Why are you so upset about the cruise missiles--Clinton stopped after the republicans accused him of starting a war.

Bush has killed over 600,000 Iraqis and thousands of Americans---but those cruise missiles Clinton fired off are the big problem?

And that has zero relevance to this race because Hillary Clinton is running as the left's establishment candidate. Obama is drawing support from the young left, independents, and republicans. See the polls, Corky.

If Hillary wins due to the Super-Delagates, they will be defeating their own cause. Serves them right on one level to lose yet another election because they had to pick a scrappy finger-to-the-wind love-child of the older left instead of someone who expands their base. But I'd really hate to be in Iraq for 100 more years. So Corky, for the love of god, start using common sense when you deliver your propaganda.

Kev

Obama has at least as leftist a voting record as Hillary. His support has been the more elitist Starbucks crowd, hers the more blue-collar Dunkin' Donuts folk.

Of course, he has run on both the right and left of her, as he has both sides of his mouth to talk out of.

"Bush has killed over 600,000 Iraqis and thousands of Americans---but those cruise missiles Clinton fired off are the big problem?"

Sometimes throwing rocks at someone from a far makes them more mad than if you brought your gang into their house. The theory that a faceless enemy can be sold as a weaker one.

Monte-

Hey, all power to Bill for getting a BJ from a fat chick from the Valley...they try harder because they have to.

Notwithstanding the fact that Bubba admitted to perjury and lost his law license for 5 years, this is the criminal behavior that I have a problem with:

- Number of individuals and businesses associated with the various Clinton Administrations who have been convicted of or pleaded guilty to crimes: 47
- Number of these convictions during Clinton's presidency: 33
- Number of indictments/misdemeanor charges: 61
- Number of congressional witnesses who have pleaded the Fifth Amendment, fled the country to avoid testifying, or (in the case of foreign witnesses) refused to be interviewed: 122

Corky-

"Obama has at least as leftist a voting record as Hillary. His support has been the more elitist Starbucks crowd, hers the more blue-collar Dunkin' Donuts folk.

Of course, he has run on both the right and left of her, as he has both sides of his mouth to talk out of."

Lets analyze shall we? No one said anything about their records. Aren't you and many other on here proof enough that most people aren't swayed by records, but more by impressions? And look at the polls. You can't dodge the age thing is BY FAR the biggest division. And Hillary DOES NOT have the support of Independents and republicans. Prove me wrong with data or start being honest.

Clinton could have farted in the Oval Office and locked the door on his last day in office, and had we listened to that fart for the last seven years, the country would be in much better shape than with GW Bush as President. The fart would have been more inspirational and effective on 911, and wouldn't have attacked a country that was no threat to us.

And I love how you can't respond to a single question without a baseless attack on Obama. Why do you feel like that is justified? Because you feel like others do it too? Get a grip.

Obama has at least as leftist a voting record as Hillary. His support has been the more elitist Starbucks crowd, hers the more blue-collar Dunkin' Donuts folk.

Trust me, there is NOTHING "blue collar Dunkin' Donuts folk" about Hillary Clinton.
She represents the corporate side of her party and will push for anything that promotes corporate gain. Don't kid yourself. She could care less about any American unless they have "Inc." after their name -- same as the Bushes and Bill Clinton.

RightO - oh, that. Nevermind then.

"The fart would have been more inspirational and effective on 911, and wouldn't have attacked a country that was no threat to us."

Subversive, insolent, and beyond cynical. But when you're right, you're right.

"She could care less about any American unless they have "Inc." after their name -- same as the Bushes and Bill Clinton."

I know, Chris. You and I share the same opinion on this illegal immigrant mess. Is there a politician anywhere in the fuckin' country who won't pimp for the illegals? Over 70% of the people are OPPOSED to them getting drivers licenses but these bastards are just ignoring us.

Hell Even Hulk Hoogan Supports Obama !!

-Sarge

Monte and ROC, don't forget these little factiods about the Clinton Administration:

- The only president ever impeached on grounds of personal malfeasance
- Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates
- Most number of cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation
- Most number of witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify
- Most number of witnesses to die suddenly
- First president sued for sexual harassment.
- First president accused of rape.
- First first lady to come under criminal investigation
- Largest criminal plea agreement in an illegal campaign contribution case
- First president to establish a legal defense fund.
- First president to be held in contempt of court
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad
- First president disbarred from the US Supreme Court and a state court

I'd like a women president but not Hillary. IMHO her candidacy is fundamentally flawed, based on her record, and will only cause more problems for our country if elected.

Obama represents our best and brightest, he has earned his. He has no machine, he's doing it on guts, skill & will. That fact earns my respect more than anything Hillary has ever accomplished....whatever that is???

Kev

Nothing baseless about it.

Obama's campaign has been cynically opportunistic from the time he decided to attack the Sen from NY for voting with most other Dem Senators to force inspections in Iraq.

She represented NY, which like the rest of us was being told at the time that Saddam = 911. Her vote wasn't the deciding one, and her vote was what her constituents wanted.

It took a criminal President to turn that vote into a preemptive war.

It has also been cynically opportunistic for Obama to tout a universal health care plan that "covers everyone" for the past year when it does no such thing, as both Edwards and Hil pointed out.

His lambasting of other candidates for taking PAC money while he was getting more bundled cash from Wall Street than anyone was also, may I say, cynically opportunistic.

Then, having his minions collect quotes from the Clintons that could be contorted into racial slurs and passed out to he press, you know, the memo that Timmah waved under his nose at the debate before last.

And it was both cynical and opportunistic after the first debate to call her "Bush-Lite" and untruthful and untrustworthy..... all the while touting the "new politics of hope".

I know you think that there is no other attack possible on Obama than a baseless one, but you are just flat wrong.

""Hell Even Hulk Hoogan Supports Obama !!""

I can honestly tell you I know people who have had dealings with Hulk Hogan. A COMPLETE AND UTTER ASSHOLE AND BULLY! Not a supporter Obama would be proud of.

Corky-

You're like a broken record. Are you on the payroll at Camp Hill-dog?

"Obama has at least as leftist a voting record as Hillary. His support has been the more elitist Starbucks crowd, hers the more blue-collar Dunkin' Donuts folk."

Saying it over and over doesn't make it true.

"Of course, he has run on both the right and left of her, as he has both sides of his mouth to talk out of."

Another random and unnecessary attack. Exactly what people hate about Hillary and her minions of half-wit parrots.

JEST

My comment was talking about globalism and this country's sellout to the multinationals -- not illegal immigration. Please stop dragging illegal immigration into every comment I make. Start looking at the REAL problem -- the NAU. All the other problems we have (corporatism run amok, open borders, etc.) stem from the push for a NAU. Bush finally mentioned the NAU in his State of the Union address. I was finally vindicated from the accusations of some of the clowns on here that said I was nuts and the NAU was only a conspiracy theory. I was right. They were wrong. How come no one is being asked about the NAU and where they stand on it. The corporate media is covering it up.

Your list pales beside that that could be made for GW, Lefty.

Obama is a promising rookie that belongs on the bench for a while.

-Saying it over and over doesn't make it true.

No, the solid demographics that support what I said make it true.

That you are ignorant of those is most telling as no one really argues the point.

HC is the old vet that needs to be put out to pasture. It is time for new leadership and that is Obama. HC is too much like Bush. The only way I would vote for her is if she agreed to let Bill make all the decisions again.

"Obama's campaign has been cynically opportunistic from the time he decided to attack the Sen from NY for voting with most other Dem Senators to force inspections in Iraq."

Your party's leaders loudly disagree with you.

"She represented NY, which like the rest of us was being told at the time that Saddam = 911. Her vote wasn't the deciding one, and her vote was what her constituents wanted."

I was in NYC, and we all knew it was BS. She was hedging for her future white house run and you know it. Now she's embarrassed and goes on offense to prevent answering questions. Just like you're doing now.

"It took a criminal President to turn that vote into a preemptive war."

Where's the articles of impeachment signed by Hillary then???? If he's a "criminal" he should be punished, right? Hillary's on the committee for god's sake!!

Blah blah blah...more half-truths about Obama to deflect attention from the point.

Then you conclude with: "I know you think that there is no other attack possible on Obama than a baseless one, but you are just flat wrong."

I think that? Or do I think there is plenty to talk about, but Hillary won't get out of the mud long enough to do it? I'll go with number two because I have a brain.

"My comment was talking about globalism and this country's sellout to the multinationals -- not illegal immigration."

OK...and you don't think allowing illegal immigrants from Central and South America by the MILLIONS to gain U.S. drivers licenses, anchor babies, amnesty etc, etc is having anything to do with multinationalism? Since half the populations of the Americas are gonna be here soon anyway, why NOT become the NAU?

Corky-

"No, the solid demographics that support what I said make it true."

Link it up then! All the real polls show age and voter turnout to be the defining difference. Hillary wins where no one campaigns, and where old people live. That's supported by every poll and every vote tally.

You forget Kevin that our young voters, well, THEY DON'T VOTE!!

Just a little clarifcation on the Fair-Tax (consumption tax) myth..Let's say you have 2 families both with 2 kids..Family 1 earns $50K a year...Lives cheaply, no vactions, 6 year old car...
At the end of the year..Family 1 scrapes enough to save $10K....so..80% of their income was taxed..Across town family 2 makes $5 million a year...they spend like drunken sailors and still manage to save $4 million at the end of the year...Seems to me only 20% of their total income is taxed...that's called FAIR........

Corky-

Nice deflection of everything that matters. Shows your true colors. You have no answers for the truth. All you have is attacks. Have fun when your party gets killed by a crazy old man who openly commits to 100 years of war.

If you'd like to respond in a meaningful way, or support anything you've said in any way, I'll be here.

Corky you must realize Hillary will get her ass kicked in the general election. It'll be Reagan vs Mondale all over again


Only Obama can save us from this great tyranny

"You forget Kevin that our young voters, well, THEY DON'T VOTE!!"

So it's an untapped resource of immense value then isn't it?

Yes support your first choice but in the end support the party.

Posted by stuart46


Just about sums up the Liberal Left nowadays...

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole



Holy shit you have balls to drop that on the left?!?!?! lol You guys would vote for fucking daffy duck (having already voted for goofy) if he were a republican.

Do you THINK before you post? That's among the LAMEST things I've read - from either side.

"Seems to me only 20% of their total income is taxed...that's called FAIR"

They are saving it. What do you care? The banks will have more capital to prevent a credit crisis. We SHOULD encourage savings.

Common sense says they'll invest it because smart people don't like to lose money against inflation. And those investments will mean jobs.

-Only Obama can save us from this great tyranny

"Pass the Obamaide, hic!"

Corky, I have asked you this before, but never got an answer: if Obama gets the nomination, will you be supporting him (and by supporting I mean voting for him)?

"Pass the Obamaide"

It's amazing what the world looks like when you don't have someone's hand up your ass.

Tax

I have always said I would, but having a CinC with no military and little foreign policy experience is kinda scary.

I think it would tilt a lot of Indies and even some Dems to McCain.

"Bush finally mentioned the NAU in his State of the Union address. I was finally vindicated from the accusations of some of the clowns on here that said I was nuts and the NAU was only a conspiracy theory. I was right."

So you were, and so you are Christopher.

I ask this question for those who do not see this as a threat to our sovereignty as a Nation: What is this "Democracy" they are pushing going to look like when the borders extend to to the Isthmus of Panama...and beyond?

What is Habeas corpus in a legal system based on the Napoleonic Code?

Moreover the tyranny practiced in those countries produce both an underclass and criminal class that is ever more vicious.

Here are some statistics from the Los Angeles Times:

75 percent of people on L.A.'s most-wanted list are illegal aliens.

Over two-thirds of all births in Los Angeles are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by the taxpayers.

Nearly 25 percent of all inmates in California detention centers are here illegally.

Over 300,000 illegals are living in garages.

Of the 10 million people in Los Angeles County, 5.1 million speak English and 3.9 million speak Spanish.

21 radio stations in Los Angeles are Spanish speaking.

Less than 2 percent of illegals are picking crops but 29 percent are on welfare.

29 percent of inmates in the federal prisons are illegal aliens.

The lifetime fiscal impact (taxes minus services used) for the average adult Mexican immigrant is a negative.

They also send between about $15 billion back to Mexico to assist their families and prop up the corrupt Mexican government that keeps most of its citizens in poverty.

A new figure from yesterday: It cost Los Angeles $276 million in welfare costs for 100,000 children of illegal aliens

12 Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens. (that's more than 21,900 murders by illegal aliens since September 11, 2001)

13 people per day are killed by illegal immigrants who drive under the influence of drugs or alcohol. An additional 4,745 premature deaths per year.

62% of all "undocumented immigrants" in the United States are working for cash and not paying taxes, predominantly illegal aliens, working without a green card.

95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens.

86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque are for illegal aliens.

75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix, and Albuquerque are illegal aliens. (continued)

(continued) More than 380,000 "anchor babies" born in the United States in 2005 were to parents who are illegal aliens; making those 380,000 babies automatically U.S. citizens. 97.2% of all costs incurred from those births were paid by the American taxpayer.

More than 66% of all births in California are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

24.9% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.

40.1% of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.

48.2% of all inmates in New Mexico detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.

29% (630,000) of the inmates in all state and federal prisons are illegal aliens--at a cost of $1.6 billion annually.

More than 53% of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens.

More than half of all gang members in Los Angeles are illegal aliens from south of the border.

More than 43% of all Food Stamps issued are to illegal aliens.

More than 41% of all unemployment checks issued in the United States are to illegal aliens.

58% of all welfare payments in the United States are issued to illegal aliens.

Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties in the United States are illegal aliens.

14 out of 31 TV stations in L.A. are Spanish-only.

16 out of 28 TV stations in Phoenix are Spanish only.

15 out of 24 TV stations in Albuquerque are Spanish-only.

More than 34% of Arizona students in grades 1-12 are illegal aliens.

More than 24% of Arizona students in grades 1-12 are non-English speaking.

More than 39% of California students in grades 1-12 are illegal aliens.

More than 42% of California students in grades 1-12 are non-English speaking.

More than 71% of all apprehended cars stolen in 2005 in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and California were stolen by illegal aliens.

47% of cited/stopped drivers in California have no license, no insurance, and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 47%, 92% are illegal aliens.

63% of cited/stopped drivers in Arizona have no license, no insurance, and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 63%, 97% are illegal aliens.

66% of cited/stopped drivers in New Mexico have no license, no insurance, and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 66%, 98% are illegal aliens.

Over 70% of the United States annual population growth (and over 90% of California, Florida, and New York) results from illegal immigration, at a cost of nearly $68,000,000,000.00 annually."

what experience does Billary have with the Military except being married to bill?? she hasn't accomplished squat except getting lucky and marrying bill

- someone's hand up your ass.


This isn't the place for airing your personal problems, Kev.

Try a good proctologist.

I have always said I would, but having a CinC with no military and little foreign policy experience is kinda scary.

Clinton had no foreign policy experience or military experience, did you vote for him?

-what experience does Billary have with the Military

Seven years on the Armed Services Committee (with J. McCain) and the admiration for her hard work there from military types and Repubs.

"I have always said I would, but having a CinC with no military and little foreign policy experience is kinda scary."

I completely agree. Hillary has no military experience. She only has experience in foreign policy via a presidential penis which she obviously neglected and has no control over, and by being a part of the committee in the Senate that repeatedly screwed the pooch. It is scary.

Or do you think she actually had N.S. clearance as a first lady?

Kevin

did we ever decide if 23 was your age or your IQ?

what experience does Billary have

She is the only candidate that has lived in the WH for 8 years.

Clinton was the longest serving Gov of a state when he was elected, and CinC of the state National Guard.

(OK, your turn to demean the Guard now)

She is the only candidate that has lived in the WH for 8 years.

Posted by Manypaths


why not elect Bush's wife then?? or elect Chelsea in a few years if that is the only requirement.

"Hillary the Movie Trailer 2

www.youtube.com"

That was weak. Nothing but a bunch of rightwing nuts like Ann Coulter, Mark Levin, Bob Novak, etc.

Clinton was the longest serving Gov of a state when he was elected, and CinC of the state National Guard.


Clinton had no foreign policy experience or real military experience. What military action did the Ark Nat'l Guard get involved with? They aren't even comparable.

Also, how does being part of an oversight committee give one military experience?

So The Wife Of A Brain Surgeon Can Go Right Into The OR At Day One !!!!

Ha Ha Hah Ha Please Obama Has More Time As An "ELECTED" Official Than Hillary Period !!

So Hang That Oh Because She Was A Wife Of A President Then She Can Run The Damn Country.

Oh My God How Silly Is That ?

-Sarge

Well obviously she is also a US senator Byrdman.

Not trying to stick up for her but she does have some experience that no other candidate in the race has.

Being married to the President that left office with the highest approval rating in the history of the US does mean something.

Hell, if anything, she can at least pronounce the names of World Leaders. That is a step up from our current situation.

As far as experience goes of the remaining 3 candidates, Obama is rally lacking and that could haunt him in the general election. You think Bill has been mean to him........JESUS, get ready for what the GOP is going to throw at the inexperienced BLACK candidate Senator for IL.

"did we ever decide if 23 was your age or your IQ?"

Yep. That's about what I expected to hear from you. Real clever.

Now how about all the stuff you're avoiding?

So proximity to power = experience using power ??

proximity to popularity = popularity ???

proximity to success = guaranteed future success ????

She is the only candidate that has lived in the WH for 8 years.

Posted by Manypaths at 2008-01-31 05:34 PM

What if, god forbid, Laura Bush found an open Senate seat in a friendly state, was a Senator for 8 years and then ran for President?

Would you think that she has the "experience" to be CinC?

I wouldn't, and don't think that HRC is any different from my hypothetical Sen. Laura in that regard.

And please, spare us the "Hillary is a lawyer and Laura is a schoolteacher" BS. I know many schoolteachers that are much more competent then lawyers at almost everything (except passing the bar exam).

"get ready for what the GOP is going to throw at the inexperienced BLACK candidate Senator for IL"

Yep, exactly what they'd throw at the inexperienced, cut-throat WOMAN candidate Senator from NY.

The difference will be the response to it.

Yeah, we know a lot more about Hillary than Obama.

Hillary has been on the national scene since 1990 or 1991. We all became aware of Obama 3 years ago.

Once Obama gets wet behind those big old ears of his, maybe then we will have something to compare.

Sure, Obama SEEMS like the Golden Child, but Hillary has been through some of the toughest ringers that D.C. can possibly muster and guess what.......

She's still in the race that is down to 3!!!!

Obama can't take a little heat from Bill without having people come to his rescue.

"Don't say bad things about him Bill, he is such a nice man......."

FUCK THAT! OBAMA NEEDS TO BE TESTED BEFORE HE GETS THROWN TO THE GOP WOLVES IN THE FALL!

Let's not forgo the facts of the situation. After all that she has been through and been put through, that lady is still standing and standing pretty tall at that.

You might not like it, but the truth has no friends....

With Hillary, the republicans in congress will play obstructionist politics and be able to fall back on a myriad of rationals for their doing so as they will be engaged in partisan BS from the get-go. Nothing revives a resistance better than a common enemy.

Obama on the other hand will try and be above the fray. If he succeeds, the republicans will have to fall back on universal issues like lower taxes and less domestic spending. All these things are good. Let them obstruct all they want, but make them give a good reason. With Hillary up there, they simply need to pick the reason that works best, or out of a hat.

JESUS, get ready for what the GOP is going to throw at the inexperienced BLACK candidate Senator for IL.

Posted by Manypaths

Obama can't be defeated in the General. Too many people are ready for a change that this man can bring. Only evildoers would vote against him. He is MLK, JFK, George Washington and Lincoln all wrapped in one. To listen to him speak makes me believe that his destiny is to lead us to promise again.

MANYPATH's logic:

Hillary is hated because she's successful. (The "they're all just jealous" theory)

Obama MIGHT be worst. We have no way of knowing. So vote against him.

Interesting. But factually and logically lacking.

Are you THAT stupid LC Lawyer?

Laura Bush was a librarian. Who killed her boyfriend.

Does Laura Bush have Law Degree from Yale?

You are really going to try to compare the 2 huh?

(I am not trying to say that being in the WH is her only experience so save your breath.)

Not that I'm voting for either O or H but I would find it interesting to get the DR's take in an informal poll.

Two questions:

1. Of the two, which do you THINK will win the Dem nomination?

2. Of the two, which do you HOPE wins?

"Laura Bush was a librarian. Who killed her boyfriend"

link?

So vote against him.

Take you head out of your ass, you have no idea who I intend to vote for.

Pardon me for injecting bits of reality into this discussion....

I THINK Hillary.

I HOPE Obama.

1. Of the two, which do you THINK will win the Dem nomination?
Hill
2. Of the two, which do you HOPE wins?
Obama

Hillary has been demonized by Republican sponsored radio talk show hosts for at least the last seven years because the Republicans are scared to death of her. The numbers being spun for Obama are another ploy of the Republicans to get Obama nominated. They have a rap sheet on Obama so long that he does not stand a chance of ever beating a Republican candidate.
When the Democratic nominee is named it will be by a landslide for Hillary. In the general election you will see more women voting than have ever voted before and they will vote for Hillary. And you married men better vote for her too or at least tell your wife you voted for Hillary. If you boast you voted for McCain you mind as well start making your own dinner and find another place to sleep.
The Republicans have tried to re-invent themselves by caling themselves the Conservative party and calling the Democratic party the Liberal party. Republicans/Conservatives are still the party of big business and that is all they will ever be. Now they can't get the taste of GWB out of their mouth because we have had to live with him for the past seven years. GWB and big oil companies have raped us for the past seven years and continue to do it daily.

Here's your link Kevin:

www.google.com

Educate yourself...

1. Of the two, which do you THINK will win the Dem nomination?

2. Of the two, which do you HOPE wins?

JEST

"My comment was talking about globalism and this country's sellout to the multinationals -- not illegal immigration."

OK...and you don't think allowing illegal immigrants from Central and South America by the MILLIONS to gain U.S. drivers licenses, anchor babies, amnesty etc, etc is having anything to do with multinationalism? Since half the populations of the Americas are gonna be here soon anyway, why NOT become the NAU?

Posted by jestgettinalong at 2008-01-31 05:12 PM

Of course I do.
Here was my problem with you bringing up the subject of illegal immigration and using my name in your post.
And my comment isn't just for you.
I've taken a lot of crap speaking about the illegal immigration issue because there were a few rabid anti-American types on here who did not want U.S borders protected or U.S. sovereignty kept and they had their own little agenda. I'm sure you saw what I went thru when I had the guts to speak out on the illegal immigration issue (called every vile name in the book) and was constantly attacked. It's not the case anymore but it sure as hell was for awhile.

I find that when some people on here now want to talk about being against illegal immigration they always seem to bring in my name to use as a "shield" for their views. I've seen it said "Well, CalifChris, I agree with you about this on illegal immigration _______________" or that about illegal immigration" and my name is always brought into their posts because it provides them a "cover" when they want to put down their own personal opinions on the issue. Sniper did the same thing before and so did a few others on here.

I took a ton of crap tossed at me for speaking out on this issue before it became "pc okay" to talk about it not to mention one of the hottest issues across the nation in the last year or two.

My feelings? If anyone wants to talk against illegal immigration do NOT bring my name into their posts as a "shield" for voicing their views on the issue and try to give cover for themselves by saying "I feel like you do Chris" or "I think just like CalifChris does." Get some cajones -- I did -- and bring up that issue yourself -- with your own words -- in your own post -- without using my name in the post. If I had to deal with a particular race-baiting pro-illegal immigration crowd on here my own (and they were brutal) then everyone can deal with them on their own too. It's just that its happened way too often -- my name brought into somebody's post in order for them to be able to make their opinion on illegal immigration appear to be a "blend" with mine -- making a "cover" for them on a touchy and controversial issue. If anyone has an opinion on being against illegal immigration then speak out by yourself -- but leave my name out of the post. Say what you have to say on your own.

1. Of the two, which do you THINK will win the Dem nomination?

2. Of the two, which do you HOPE wins?

YOU know, when you put your answers in brackets they disappear.......

THINK - Hillary

HOPE - Obama

Really..........

How kind of you Sarge......

Manypaths-

"Educate yourself..."

You first. Start with the definition of "Reality".

If by some miracle Obama gets the nomination, I will be voting Republican for the first time in my life.

"Obama can't be defeated in the General. Too many people are ready for a change that this man can bring. Only evildoers would vote against him. He is MLK, JFK, George Washington and Lincoln all wrapped in one. To listen to him speak makes me believe that his destiny is to lead us to promise again."

Posted by byrdman

These kind of comments remind me of how the Germans raved about Hitler...

NO-BAMA '08

"Hillary is hated because she's successful. (The "they're all just jealous" theory)"

LMAO. Without her husbands name & political game she is irrelevant and just like most IMMORAL POWER HUNGRY women I know she has no shame in hiding behind that fact.

They have a rap sheet on Obama so long that he does not stand a chance of ever beating a Republican candidate.

Where Is It ?

-Sarge

"These kind of comments remind me of how the Germans raved about Hitler..."

Ah yes. Couldn't have a bullshit session without the old Nazi comparison. Hillary's folks are real thoughtful, aren't they?

The best way to deal with Mexican citizens illegally entering the U.S. is to outsource the U.S. military to Mexico. Think about it. You get cheap labor. You make them stay in the military for at least 6 years and then you give them citizenship. Most will stay for at least 20 years. They fight for us and we give them full military benefits. They get a military ID card. And we fill the ranks of the military as the Republicans want it.

MikeEdge-

"Think about it. You get cheap labor."

You also get what you pay for.

"Reality"

Which part are you questioning? The fact that she killed her boyfriend or her prior occupation?

Both are pretty well documented.

Manypaths-

You're saying Laura Bush caused him to die? Not the car crash? Or are you assigning fault unilaterally?

You're saying Laura Bush caused him to die?

Yes. She was driving her car.

She ran a stop sign, illegaly.

She hit another car that her boyfriend was in while in the process of performing a moving violation.

He died as a result.

Ask her about it sometime......

"You're saying Laura Bush caused him to die? Not the car crash?"

Interesting line of argument. I can see it now:

"Members of the jury. My client didn't cause the death of the deceased. It was the gun."

I do wonder why Laura wasn't charged with manslaughter in that case.

You or I would have been.

"It was the gun."

Hans

Actually it was the bullet.
The primer had nothing to do with it.

Well, smart asses-

The police report called it an "accident"

So she killed him, huh? OK. Pretty loose interpretation. Very Clintonian.

No Kevin, it was actually HIS car that killed him.

It was parts of his "Ford" that were shoved deep into his sternum and cranium from the impact caused by someone else's neglect of a road sign.

I think Henry's Grandson Robbie took the fall for it........

So she killed him, huh? OK. Pretty loose interpretation. Very Clintonian.

Is your head in your ass?

Is it dark where you are right now?

Does it smell funny? And by funny, I mean does it smell like shit?

If so, you might want to think about removing your head from your asshole.

People around you HAVE to be staring and pointing......

"No Kevin, it was actually HIS car that killed him."

Well, now that's honest. And the cause was an unintentional accident. Glad to see you thinking before typing.

Was Laura drinking when she killed her boyfriend in that car crash or just talking to her friend in the car and wasn't paying attention or what? She was only 17 when it happened.

Manypaths-

Cute. Did you think of that all by yourself? Well, make sure to print it out, take it home, and put it up on the fridge. It might even buy you an ounce of respect if you spin it right.

Read above Kevin. There's a consensus.

YOU'RE AN IDIOT!

Too (and Two) Funnys from Hans and Zat...

Gun->Bullet->Cardiac Arrest/Cerebral Hemorrhage

A consensus huh?

A couple of posts add on to be funny and you wet yourself? That's not support, that's people being light-hearted. Then there's you.

Kevin,

I gotta run but I think we are talking about 2 different things.

YES, Laura Bush did kill her H.S. boyfriend.

The records of that event detail a horrible accident.

I am NOT saying that she MURDERED him.

But her actions killed the man.

(And she really was a librarian as well. Trust me.)

Enjoy your evening.......

Okay ya'll (talking southern here) you can say whatever the f**k you want about George Bush and I will let ya, but start going after Laura and you are going to get my back up. She was 17, she ran a stop sign (like no-one has ever done that before), he was not her boyfriend (they had previously dated) she was devastated (as would be any teenage girl), she has been one of the most elegant, eloquent, thoughtful, and respected first ladies since, gawd I don't know who. I have never heard of an iota of scandal associated with Laura and this is just really lame. She is a) a teacher, b) a librarian and c) a class act, regardless of what you think about her husband. Leave Laura alone (don't make me post the youtube video) :D

I really don't think we want to get into a First Lady Scandal contest here, or do we?

Manypaths-

I'm glad you finally figured out a rationalization for yourself that works for you.

I could really care less. I just love that you found a way to deflect from the real point of our back-and-forth...Hillary's readiness to take on the republican smear machine supposedly dwarfing that of Obama. Never really explained your "They're all Jealous" Theory.

Par for the course I suppose. Enjoy YOUR evening too.

"I really don't think we want to get into a First Lady Scandal contest here, or do we?"

Amen.

Laura is a dry drunk, just like her husband

So far the Oohrah poll is unanimous...
We THINK Clinton will win
We HOPE Obama will win

So far the Oohrah poll is unanimous...
We THINK Clinton will win
We HOPE Obama will win



Posted by OohRah

Well, let me ruin the perfect %
THINK AND HOPE = Clinton
Long Run THINK = Mac

Being married to the President that left office with the highest approval rating in the history of the US does mean something.
Posted by Manypaths

Don't even go there, or admit she spent 2 years defending a liar. America remebers, my friend.

America remebers
(spellcheck needed)

America remebers
(spellcheck needed)

Posted by CLINTONISKING

That's the best you have? I bet you've beat your kids when they came in 39th in the local spelling bee. (out of 38)

I will repeat myself

"we don't want to get into a first lady scandal contest here"

Clinton - "laura is a dry drunk" what is wrong with that, there are millions of people who have been alcoholics and have become dry, are you belittling their achievment? Are you saying that a reformed drunk cannot be a good member of society? I will not accept that Laura was ever a drunk, there is no evidence of it, none. But even if she was and is now "dry" why the hell are you dissing that achievment? Ya want to get into a pissing contest about addiction? Your pal Clinton has a sex addiction and his wifey has a power addiction, neither of them are dry. Want to bat that theory around arsehole?

Litlebritdifrnt, I'm to lazy...


laura who?

The records of that event detail a horrible accident.

I am NOT saying that she MURDERED him.

But her actions killed the man.

(And she really was a librarian as well. Trust me.)

Enjoy your evening.......

Posted by Manypaths

You Sir, are an asshole. Even your Party didn't throw horseshit like this in 2000, and 2004.

"Even your Party didn't throw horseshit like this in 2000, and 2004."

A perfect example of moral relativism.

Next thing you know there will be shock, SHOCK! that there's gambling going on here. (Be sure to pocket your winnings before anyone notices.)

Hans

A perfect example of moral relativism.

Posted by Hans

Help me understand how this is relative to today, let alone, this thread. Did you stomp your foot really hard in 2000 and 2004 based on this earth shattering news?

Hans,


I just saw your back and forth with MrFair on the abortion thread.

Excellent stuff all around.


If only Herm had taken notes and observed how to reasonably carry out a discussion where at least some degree of disagreement is involved.

"I just saw your back and forth with MrFair on the abortion thread.

"Excellent stuff all around."

Thank you, JeffJ.

It is one of the reasons why posting here (and even hanging around here) is worth it.

Hans

Agreed, Hans.


It's kinda like that old hockey joke:


I went to watch the fights and a hockey game broke out.


I came to DR to snipe and a quality, civil discussion broke out.


It does happen from time to time.

Hans,


I am not sure where you are going with this.


Nevertheless, the purple band-aid thing was beyond reprehensible. I about threw my remote through the TV screen when I saw that at the time.

It's that degree of "asshole-ery" that makes me appreciate all the more those on the opposite of the aisle who are rational and reasonable.

Hans,

So, some people have selective outrage.


I understand how irritating that is, but it happens all of the time on both sides.

This is nothing new.

And JeffJ, your evenhandedness ("the purple band-aid thing was beyond reprehensible") does not go unnoticed.

Hans

You've gotta have heart
All you really need is heart
When the odds are sayin' you'll never win
That's when the grin should start
You've gotta have hope
Mustn't sit around and mope
Nothin's half as bad as it may appear
Wait'll next year and hope
When your luck is battin' zero
Get your chin up off the floor
Mister you can be a hero
You can open any door, there's nothin' to it but to do it
You've gotta have heart
Miles 'n miles n' miles of heart
Oh, it's fine to be a genius of course
But keep that old horse
Before the cart
First you've gotta have heart

damn yankees, broadway musical 1958

vote obama!!

Don't even go there, or admit she spent 2 years defending a liar. America remebers, my friend.

Posted by wisgod at 2008-01-31 07:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

Most of you here have spent 6-7 defending worse.

Hey hans, you 'fascist'(tm) *smile* Jonah Goldberg isn't even a third tier pundit! He's political porn for the sesame street level right wingers.

Like Ann Coulter, only with facial hair and a smaller penis.

sarge
i'm also leanin towards mclain damn i always thought
you had good sense for a colored guy-lincoln continental is what i drive
jasman

sarge
those guys you mentioned ain't nothin but pimps
jasman

Don't even go there, or admit she spent 2 years defending a liar. America remebers, my friend.

Posted by wisgod at 2008-01-31 07:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

Most of you here have spent 6-7 defending worse.

Posted by Alexandrite

"Don't even go there, or admit she spent 2 years defending a liar.

Next time you're curious Google "The Resurrection Of Richard Nixon" and then get back to us with the whole "defending a liar" meme.
Posted by Hans


I know you lefties still think Bush is running for re-election, but now Nixon? Good trick if he can rise from the dead and pull it off.

My original point trumps both of yours. She defended her lying husband for 2 years, and that's a fact.

Wisgod,

Do you realize the irony of "you lefties still think Bush..." juxtaposed with at attack on Bill Clinton?

"Joe McCarthy"

We have not had a decent alcoholic in a position of power since U. S. Grant.