Adios,MOFO...go back to your McMansion and suck eggs....

'night,Johnboy...see ya in '12....

His Beautician is depressed.

This timing is curious, given Edwards' recently stated goal to win enough delegates to be a power broker at the convention. He could win a decent chunk on Super Tuesday since the Dems have no winner-take-all primaries on that date.

I think his reason to quit here is to endorse Obama before Tuesday. There's no place for Edwards in a Clinton administration, given his strong attacks on her in several debates. I think he has a shot at being in an Obama administration.

The people on Daily Kos are crying their eyes out, but I'm dancin' a jig.
Go Obama!!

I think Edwards will end up endorsing Obama, and I think most of his supporters will break to Obama, which should swing several Feb 5th states to the Obama side.

I can hope...

I sure hope you're right.

I think his reason to quit here is to endorse Obama before Tuesday. There's no place for Edwards in a Clinton administration, given his strong attacks on her in several debates. I think he has a shot at being in an Obama administration.

Yep. I've seen a lot of suggestions that Edwards would be the Atourney General in an Obama administration.
Sounds like a good fit to me. And that could be the endorsement deal being brokered right now.

Whoever Edwards supports I hope he becomes a part of the new Democratic administration. I hear people talking about him for AG, that would be great.

Probably is good news for Obama though. Hillary has had a pretty tough week.

The AP article says he won't "immediately" endorse anyone. It sure seems like Obama is a better fit for him so I'm hoping the rumors are true.

Obama - Hey John, I'm looking for an AG who will reign in the abuses of the justice department and target corporate corruption, know anyone?

Edwards - I'm dropping out of the race.

Also, I haven't seen Elizabeth at the last couple of events. I sure hope this doesn't mean she's getting worse.

Time to head back to the hedge funds....

If Edwards doesn't endorse anybody before Tuesday, I'll be amazed. That's the expiration date of his relevancy to the race.

Hillary has had a pretty tough week.

Posted by danni at 2008-01-30 09:36 AM | Reply

Yeah, Ms. Precious got "snubbed" by the boys at the State of the Union Address.Now she's a victim again.

Anyway, this is my favorite quote from her this week:

"I am a gutter-ball bowler," Clinton said as she campaigned Sunday night in the state [i.e., Florida] in which she had pledged not to campaign."

So true. Hillary plays in the gutter.

I am going to go listen to him give his speech at lunch. I will do my best to shake his hand and thank him.

"Time to head back to the hedge funds...."

Posted by slicksterWilly at 2008-01-30 09:49 AM

YEAH!

That's no way to talk about Romney, even though he's got some Mexican blood in him, looks like he's just turned out to be just a little Mexicant!

I hear that CNN has reported that Elizabeth Edward's health is not the reason for John leaving the race...thankfully.

"I am a gutter-ball bowler," Clinton said as she campaigned Sunday night in the state [i.e., Florida] in which she had pledged not to campaign."

Except that she didn't campaign here. But hey, facts are so Clintonian.

Gotta get the new record.....Mitt sings "Who let the dogs out???"

""Got any bling bling in there?????""

I gotta wonder how such an absolute clown ever got so rich.

..........we'll miss you John..........

Two Americas... One consisted of Edwards and his wife saying he can be president, the other America saying, "Go fuck yourself trial lawyer."

I gotta wonder how such an absolute clown ever got so rich.

Posted by danni

Hard work. Mystery solved.

Hard work. Mystery solved.

Posted by wisgod at 2008-01-30 10:03 AM | Reply

I'm sure that in Romney's case (unlike Bush's), work and intelligence counted for something.

Being born George Romney's kid didn't hurt, either.

Whoever Edwards supports I hope he becomes a part of the new Democratic administration. I hear people talking about him for AG, that would be great.

He'd be terrific!

Except that she didn't campaign here. But hey, facts are so Clintonian.

Posted by danni at 2008-01-30 09:57 AM | Reply

It depends upon what your definition of "campaign" is.

How Clintonian.

"I gotta wonder how such an absolute clown ever got so rich."

Posted by danni at 2008-01-30 09:58 AM


YEAH!

It's called Inheritance and Riding the Coattails of the Old Man!

Similar to Bush, just better at keeping it!

Do me a favor and kick him square in the balls... really do your best to rupture a testicle so that he has to be helped by the people he made millions crushing even though they were innocent...

I didn't see the magic word...

Two Americas... One consisted of Edwards and his wife saying he can be president, the other America saying, "Go fuck yourself trial lawyer."
While working for the poor of the world, in his office at the hedge fund....

good, now to get rid of the other girl...

good, now to get rid of the other girl...

Posted by nanc


I think Hussein's sticking it out... but hold on to hope...

Do me a favor and kick him square in the balls... really do your best to rupture a testicle so that he has to be helped by the people he made millions crushing even though they were innocent...

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole


And who would that be, pray tell? Have friends in the insurance industry, do you?

You are slipping, Rob ... your hyperbole, distortions and misreprentations of facts have been more subtle.

I gotta wonder how such an absolute clown ever got so rich.

Danni, you didn't know mormons sell baby organs on the black market and market the rest of the baby meat as "veal" and sell it to Wal-Mart?

(Just trying to even the score with the Obama myths...It's a joke)

""It depends upon what your definition of "campaign" is.""

Perhaps you should provide a definition since the fact that she didn't run commercials, make speeches, etc. or do any of the other things associated with campaigning.....so let't hear your definition.....I think it sounds like.....her last name is Clinton so you can say any stupid crap you want....true or not.

I gotta wonder how a someone like you can become such hate filled bitch.

Posted by slicksterWilly at 2008-01-30 10:12 AM | Reply | Flag:


It's a natural progression that results from having to inhabit a nation with pus filled shitsacks such as yourself.

Midiman, would you call your insurance agent if you had a ruptured testicle?

Anyway, a quick glance at some of Romney's ancestors doesn't show a single shoe polished black, Dapper Dane sportin' greasy beaner looker in the lot!

Posted by Redneckville at 2008-01-30 10:16 AM | Reply

Dude, schtick or not, you're nuts.

Have friends in the insurance industry, do you?

Yes, because when a doctor is sued, nothing happens to his or her malpractice insurance rates. They don't go up at all... they get a letter from their insurance provider saying, "I got this."

All those OB/GYN doctors are bailing because they just can't stand to look at another hole... has nothing to do with Edwards making millions by suing them for causing Cerebral Palsy (Which they never did).

You're an idiot Midiman, and you have no idea what you're talking about here...

Edwards HAS to back Obama, this week, to retain any credibility.

Midiman, when you get in a car accident do you pay all the damages or does your insurance company?

What happens to your rates after they pay out? Why would you be so retarded as to think malpractice insurance isn't any different...

Thank God. I was getting pissed about him wasting my tax dollars on a campaign he was obviously not going to win.

Oh....I get it....malpractice insurance is what make health care so expensive....why it adds like 1% to the cost....OMG!!!!It would be much better if a doctor cuts off the wrong foot or something for the patient or their survivors to just suck it up.
Never mind the fact that the majority of malpractice suits seem to be against the same doctors who keep practicing bad medicine.
And hey, why not bring "tort reform" and limit a right we have held since the Magna Carta.
Gee, I wonder which guy cost more folks their jobs.....Edwards or Romney? wonder which one really knows what its like to be poor???
Edwards was done in by his gender, his race and his hair.

"Anyway, a quick glance at some of Romney's ancestors doesn't show a single shoe polished black, Dapper Dane sportin' greasy beaner looker in the lot!"


Dude, schtick or not, you're nuts.
Posted by anton at 2008-01-30 10:25 AM


YEAH!

I agree the observation is a stretch ---- but im Just Sayin'(TM) it in the Sprit of being Fair and Balanced like Hannity!

All of this sounded suspiciously like campaigning

What was the point of campaigning there though if they have been stripped of their delegates at the convention?

Is there some way that Florida's votes could be restored?

Anton, do you honestly think that is really "campaigning"???? You know better.
Your hatred of Hillary is not attractive.

I think Obama will eventually win the nomination and I will support him but I absolutely do not believe you have to hate Hillary to like Obama but some of the Obama supporters don't seem to agree.

"Perhaps you should provide a definition since the fact that she didn't run commercials, make speeches, etc. or do any of the other things associated with campaigning.....so let't hear your definition.."

Danni - I agree with you. She didn't "campaign" in the purest sense of the term. More accurately, she pandered.

She NEVER said a word about either Florida or Michigan being stripped of their delegates before 4 days ago. She signed a pledge not to campaign - I would say that was, at minimum, tacit approval of the DNC's action.

Everything was just fine until she got spanked in SC and panicked. Then the rules were no longer so important. If she had been advocating for the Florida delegates to be restored all along then that would be one thing. She didn't.

Its a lot like not complaining about the Nevada caucus locations for months, right up until she didn't get the endorsement she wanted a couple of days before the caucus.

YEAH!
Maybe I should have prefaced it with some:
"Somebody's Gotta Say it" as to make the insulting and degrading palatable to the sensitive Compassionate Bush Cult..:>)

malpractice insurance is what make health care so expensive....

No. but it is why a lot of good doctors are getting out of certain areas of medicine and why Hospitals as a whole are eliminating their OB wings.

I'll try to find the exact numbers but here in Philly just a few years ago, I think around 13 hospitals still delivered babies, and now (thanks to bags of shit like Edwards) I'm pretty sure we're down to 7.

Johnny made a living... a very good living suing and getting cash from innocent doctors... Karma's a bitch ain't it Johnny?!?!?

"Is there some way that Florida's votes could be restored?"

Whoever gets the nomination can restore them but then it will not matter.

"No. but it is why a lot of good doctors are getting out of certain areas of medicine and why Hospitals as a whole are eliminating their OB wings."

Gee, you don't think it might have something to do with too many poor women having babies without insurance???

"Is there some way that Florida's votes could be restored?"

Yes. The credentials committee could vote to seat them prior to the convention, or the voting delegates at the convention could vote to seat them.

Your hatred of Hillary is not attractive.

Posted by danni at 2008-01-30 10:36 AM | Re

The Clintons are globalist, corporate whores.

That is not attractive.

Hillary actually did work for "the Great Satan", Wal-Mart. That should be reason enough for you to despise her, Danni.

My numbers were way off...

15 hospitals in Philly have shut their OB wards...

In philly and the 4 surrounding counties there are 28 hospitals and 2 birthing centers for 50,000 births a year...

Thanks John Edwards!!

""Hillary actually did work for "the Great Satan", Wal-Mart. That should be reason enough for you to despise her, Danni.""

OK, I don't have a problem with that statement, I have to question my own support for Hillary over that. I don't so much support Hillary as I just oppose irrational hatred for her by Democrats. Some of the Obama support seems to go way beyond reasoned debate, I can see though that many people would definitely have a problem with her being on the board of Walmart.

I think Obama will eventually win the nomination

I think that is a huge overestimation.

""Yes. The credentials committee could vote to seat them prior to the convention, or the voting delegates at the convention could vote to seat them.""

That would be totally unfair. If Hillary tries to do that I will have to join the Hillary bashers.

"Do me a favor and kick him square in the balls... really do your best to rupture a testicle so that he has to be helped by the people he made millions crushing even though they were innocent."

Innocent?

Prove it dumbass.

"That would be totally unfair. If Hillary tries to do that I will have to join the Hillary bashers.

Posted by danni"

Danni - She has stated several times over the past few days, including last night that she intends to fight to get their delegates seated.

That is why I call what she has done pandering - not because I'm a "Hillary hater", but because of evaluating her actions. She didn't give a flip for all these months after the decision was made to strip the delegates, but suddenly 4 days ago seating them became her passion.

She promised in her speech last night to get them seated.

That's funny Corky, I just heard NPR say that 60% of those Edwards supporters would go Obama's way, without an endorsement.

Of course your poll was so yesterday, just like Clinton politics. (just teasing, don't take it personally)

Danni - She has stated several times over the past few days, including last night that she intends to fight to get their delegates seated.

Posted by SanAntonioRogue

Where does Howard Dean stand on this? He's been awfully quiet.

OK, I don't have a problem with that statement, I have to question my own support for Hillary over that. I don't so much support Hillary as I just oppose irrational hatred for her by Democrats. Some of the Obama support seems to go way beyond reasoned debate, I can see though that many people would definitely have a problem with her being on the board of Walmart.

Posted by danni at 2008-01-30 10:46 AM | Reply

Kudos, Danni.

I heard that but was actually still faintly hoping she meant after the nomination. I think I am beginning to have to face the hard cruel truth about her and I really have tried to be fair but she is beginning to even piss me off.
Corky can't be far behind if she does actually try to get those delegates credentials after the deal that was made.
Hillary seems to be trying to "give" the nomination to Barack sometimes.

"Where does Howard Dean stand on this? He's been awfully quiet."

As chairman, Dean led the effort to impose sanctions on states that moved up their primaries without authorization.

I don't think he wants to get in the middle of this right now, but I expect he still favors enforcement of the rules.

"I heard that but was actually still faintly hoping she meant after the nomination."

Danni - there wouldn't be any point in doing that. She suddenly wants them seated at the convention because she thinks she might need them to get the nomination.

CNN Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider provides answers to questions about the Florida primaries.

Q: Why did the Democratic Party strip Florida of its delegates?

Schneider: Did you know that the primary season has not officially started yet? It doesn't actually start until February 5. Any primary held before that date is breaking party rules.

The Democrats have said that only four states can go ahead and break the rules -- Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina. But nobody else!

What about Florida, which is holding its primary Tuesday? Off with their heads! Or more precisely, out with their delegates! The Democrats say the party will refuse to seat any Florida delegates at the convention in Denver in August. So there!

Q: What are Hillary Clinton and the other candidates doing about it?

Schneider: Clinton has already told Florida Democrats not to worry. If she is the Democratic nominee, she will make sure Florida delegates are not left out on the street.

-And you can expect any other Democratic nominee to do exactly the same thing.-

Really, can you imagine the Democratic Party going out of its way to insult Florida voters by telling them their votes don't count -- after what happened in Florida in 2000?

Q: Who benefits from the situation?

Schneider: One punishment has held. The Democratic candidates have all refused to campaign in Florida. Without a campaign, who wins? Probably Hillary Clinton, the best-known contender. She will be in Florida Tuesday night to collect her "prize." Which is what? Momentum, she hopes, heading into Super Tuesday on February 5.

Otherwise, Barack Obama can claim the "Big Mo" coming out of his impressive victory in South Carolina on Saturday -- the last officially sanctioned primary before Super Tuesday.

Q: So, if Clinton wins Tuesday it will mostly be symbolic, right?

Schneider: Not necessarily. If the Democratic race remains close and no one has a majority going into the convention in August, we could see a showdown over seating the Florida delegates -- and the Michigan delegates, too. Michigan also held an unofficial primary that Hillary Clinton won without a campaign on January 15.

Suppose Clinton needs the Florida and Michigan delegates seated to put her over the top. The Obama delegates will insist that the party enforce its rules and exclude them. Until Obama gets the nomination. Then all Democrats will be welcome to join in the celebration.

Innocent?

Prove it dumbass.

Posted by Mista Kurtz at 2008-01-30 10:48 AM | Rep

These were civil cases, not criminal cases. The question was not one of "guilt" vs. "innocence," but rather one of liability. I presume that most, if not all, of the cases Edwards won were jury trials. Juries; i.e., random citizens of the community, found these doctors to be liable and assessed damages against them. If someone doesn't like the jury verdicts, he/she should blame: (1) the juries and/or (2) the appellate courts that did not reverse or reduce those verdicts. The villainous "trial lawyer" was doing his job for his client.

John Edwards is a hypocrit and forgot to dance with the ones that brung him. He got huge amounts of money from trial lawyers then just last year decided to jump on the "tort reform" band wagon and proposed that lawyers be required to hire three expert witnesses to testify as to the standard of care before they could file a lawsuit. (As opposed to one which it is now.) The average expert witness costs thousands, which puts any med mal case out of the reach of your average Joe, unless you have a wealthy lawyer who is willing to risk shelling out the money up front (like Edwards). So basically Edwards said to all his collegues "I've got mine with junk science pal f**k you." I have no respect for the man for that reason alone. I am all for some sort of tort reform but he was just pandering at the expense of his biggest backers.

PS) Rob I also agree with you (if that is not also hypocritical), the OB/GYNs around here have either quit delivering babies or gone out of business altogether because they cannot pay their med mal premiums, it is very sad.

"That's funny Corky, I just heard NPR say that 60% of those Edwards supporters would go Obama's way, without an endorsement."

They were discussing this on CNN last night, even before he made his decision. According to them, Edwards delegates were very carefully selected to be extremely loyal to him. If true, then most of his delegates will likely go to whomever he ends up endorsing.

How could they ever seat the Michigan delgates when Hillary was the only one on the ballot.? All others were "undecided".

Danni-

The candidates only "deal" was that they would not campaign in Fl during the primary there. Period.

The candidates were not involved in the DNC sanctions, did not agree to them.

And as Bill Schcnider points out:

"Clinton has already told Florida Democrats not to worry. If she is the Democratic nominee, she will make sure Florida delegates are not left out on the street.


-And you can expect any other Democratic nominee to do exactly the same thing.-


Really, can you imagine the Democratic Party going out of its way to insult Florida voters by telling them their votes don't count -- after what happened in Florida in 2000?"

Had Obama been projected to win, he would have been here last night promising to support the state party at the convention.

Corky, I heard yesterday that had MI not moved up their primary, the DNC would have let FL keep the date. However, MI wouldn't budge so both FL and MI get screwed.

Also, I think the convention could get pretty scary if the MI and FL seats would decide the nomination. I think at that point you will have the loser candidate's supporters walk away from the Convention and the party.

""PS) Rob I also agree with you (if that is not also hypocritical), the OB/GYNs around here have either quit delivering babies or gone out of business altogether because they cannot pay their med mal premiums, it is very sad.""

I would really like to see how many deliveries were made for women who had not health insurance before I assume that doctors quit because of malpractice costs. I suspect that losses are much greater because of lack of payment than because of law suits. I could be wrong, I'm not certain but logic tells me to be suspicious of that claim.

"The Democrats have said that only four states can go ahead and break the rules -- Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina. But nobody else!"

But the usually astute Schneider misstates the facts. The DNC (as does the RNC) sets the rules for party primaries. If they determine that certain primary dates can be moved then those ARE the rules and thus those states cannot be "breaking the rules".

The rules were made and agreed to. States like Michigan and Florida were given fair warning that there would be consequences.

Who wins in a Democratic convention delegate controversy.....John McCain.

Consequences in the Repub primary were the loss of 1/2 their delegates. I expect the Dems to do something similar.

"The rules were made and agreed to. States like Michigan and Florida were given fair warning that there would be consequences."

But the Florida Legislature is controlled by Republicans.
The Florida Dems though can't totally blame the Republicans though because the whole idea to change the primary date came from a Democratic legislator who is a FOOL! Once the Republicans realized how difficult this would be for Dems they wouldn't even consider changing the date back.

"The candidates only 'deal' was that they would not campaign in Fl during the primary there. Period.

The candidates were not involved in the DNC sanctions, did not agree to them."

But certainly by agreeing not to campaign the candidates were giving, at minimum, tacit agreement to the sanctions.

If she disagreed, why didn't Hillary go on record as opposing them months ago? Nary a peep about it until the SC debacle. Then suddenly seating Michigan and Florida became her passion? Are you the only one who doesn't find that a bit disingenuous?

"Also, I think the convention could get pretty scary if the MI and FL seats would decide the nomination. I think at that point you will have the loser candidate's supporters walk away from the Convention and the party."

I hope this scenario becomes reality!

It would be nice to see the party of Al Gore, of the winner of the popular votes should win, etc, have a controversy over delegates. How can the DNC disenfranchise MI and FL over a fucking calendar? This is silly. I hope the convention is a real riot, like 68 (?). That would get people to finnaly stand up to IA and NH and we could get a new primary process.

She went on record when she left her name on the Mich ballot.

Keeping stretching the story though, maybe you can get more than "disingenuous" out of it, as that is your goal.

"The rules were made and agreed to. States like Michigan and Florida were given fair warning that there would be consequences."


There will be consequences if the people of MI and FL are disenfranchised over a silly calendar dispute. The rules were agreed upon, yes, but I would suggest that if they want the WH, they should agree to throw out the rules. Or else, don't bitch and complain later and when (possibly) McCain becomes president.

I DID enjoy watching the MSNBC'ers having a hissy fit about it, though.

Lou Dobbs was rational about the facts, for once, and even FOX gave her points for sticking to the agreement, but having the foresight to hedge her bets.

Personally I think the big states like CA, NY, and TX should be frontloaded in the primary season. All a candidate has to do in MI is talk about restrainig trade to win the vote there, and to win in IA you talk about how you are going to help farmers. The big states aren't susceptible to pandering to one group as they represent many industries. A candidate will get tied down to their message and will have to stick to it throughout the campaign.

"She went on record when she left her name on the Mich ballot."

Riiiiiight.

"Corky, I heard yesterday that had MI not moved up their primary, the DNC would have let FL keep the date. However, MI wouldn't budge so both FL and MI get screwed."

Sure, it's all Michigan's fault! Sure!

This is BS. The root cause of this problem is IA and NH insisting that they should be first and their abusive arm twisting.

If it wasn't for the fact I hate JulieAnnie, I would have supported him only because he ignore those two fucking states. People need to start voting against the winners of IA and NH.

I see it as a win-win for Obama. He didn't win Fla. of Mi. So he can claim he's playing by the rules agreed upon long ago.

I think I understand the DNC's reasons for not wanting big states like MI or FL to move up their primaries. If big states have early primaries then the cost of campaigning in them would be too much for any candidate without big $$$$$. With small states first a candidate can build a following on a small budget then, if he/she is successful can get big $$$ from contributors for the big state campaigns. It lets the lesser candidates at least have an opportunity to try to build a following.

Tomorrow night's debate should be very interesting with just the two contenders left.

This year could make future absentee and early voting less prevelant, expecially among those who cast their ballots too early and wished in hindsight they'd waited to see how things shake out.

-he can claim he's playing by the rules agreed upon long ago.


They all lived up to the rules they agreed with the DNC on.

The DNC sanctions were not part of the agreement.

"I think I understand the DNC's reasons for not wanting big states like MI or FL to move up their primaries. If big states have early primaries then the cost of campaigning in them would be too much for any candidate without big $$$$$."

I think it also has to do with not wanting the nomination to be wrapped up by anyone so early that the candidates are not fully vetted, and people around the country given a chance to get to know their policies and positions.

The DNC sanctions were not part of the agreement.

Posted by Corky


That is right. Campaigning or not is one thing, but the DNC can always change the rules concerning delegates.

"The DNC sanctions were not part of the agreement."

The agreement was BECAUSE of the sanctions. They are not separate, unrelated issues. They agreed not to campaign because the DNC had sanctioned those states.

The time to state opposition to the sanctions was then, not 4 days ago. Any of the candidates could have said they disagreed with the DNC decision and refused to sign the agreement. Or they could have signed, but stated they supported revisiting the sanction decision.

Rather than having regional primaries, or big states first, let's have the primaries on one day, say, the first tuesday after the first monday in may. Naturally, each candidate would de better in their state and or region. Then the convention would decide, after balloting, who is the nominee. This would be better than the boring coronations we have to put up with.

Only if there's a clear winner for the DNC nomination can the DNC in any way seat the delegates.

A contest in MI with only Hillary on the ballot, and no campaigning in Florida make those results meaningless.

"How could they ever seat the Michigan delgates when Hillary was the only one on the ballot.? All others were "undecided".

Posted by wisgod"

Actually the other delegates were "uncommitted". If seated, they would be free to support any candidate they choose.

-he can claim he's playing by the rules agreed upon long ago.


They all lived up to the rules they agreed with the DNC on.

The DNC sanctions were not part of the agreement.

Posted by Corky

Corky, my point is this whole thing is confusing to those who follow politics closely. The perception that Hillary is suddenly unwilling to follow the rules may be a turnoff to the casual voter. Just my opinion.

MEMBER if that was how we did it we never would have heard Dennis Kucinich. I think a rotating schedule with many different small states would be good but I don't think big states should have primaries until after the candidates have an opportunity to campaign in less expensive small races.
BTW, all these endorsements by big name Democrats might be pretty important when we get to the convention and any candidate tries to get the FL delegates counted.
I think that the endorsements will be more important at the convention than they are in primary elections.

-Just my opinion.

Just your hope.

Just your hope.



Posted by Corky

Yes, that too. Sorry.

And of course he Obama campaign is already trying to spin it that way, even though they know that she lived up to the same agreement they did.

Interesting to find that that kind of cynicism made it into the new politics of hope.

Gov. Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas just endorsed Obama

Danni-

"I think I am beginning to have to face the hard cruel truth about her and I really have tried to be fair but she is beginning to even piss me off."

Welcome to the independent perspective. Things look a hell of a lot different when you back up a few steps.

I have a problem with rotating primaries because for that electoral cycle, a particular region would be favored over the other, candidates would pledge to support issues concerning that region over others and we are back to square one. This is why I oppose IA and NH monopolizing the process to being with, because their issues are given too much importance over others.

"Gov. Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas just endorsed Obama"

Yesterday, AU.

"Interesting to find that that kind of cynicism made it into the new politics of hope."

"When Senator Clinton was campaigning in Iowa and New Hampshire, she said that states like Michigan and Florida that won't award delegates, don't count for anything.' Now that Senator Clinton has lost badly in South Carolina, she's trying to assign meaning to a contest that awards zero delegates and where no campaigning has occurred. Senator Clinton's own campaign has repeatedly said that this is a contest for delegates', and tonight, Florida awarded zero. Senator Obama is disappointed that Florida will have no role in selecting delegates for the Democratic nominee, but looks forward to competing and winning in Florida during the general election"

Hmmm. Maybe you could point out any part of that that is either untrue or "cynical"?

"Interesting to find that that kind of cynicism made it into the new politics of hope."

The politics of hope wouldn't be necessary, they'd be inherent, if it weren't for the politics of the Clinton and Bush years. Don't act so shocked that the cynicism that those years bred hasn't just disappeared.

So it's 'spin' to say that a 'contest' with no campaigning and a large percentage of votes cast before even Iowa is an authentic contest?

OK

Obama on Edwards today:

"John Edwards has spent a lifetime fighting to give voice to the voiceless and hope to the struggling, even when it wasn't popular to do or covered in the news. At a time when our politics is too focused on who's up and who's down, he made a nation focus again on who matters the New Orleans child without a home, the West Virginia miner without a job, the families who live in that other America that is not seen or heard or talked about by our leaders in Washington. John and Elizabeth Edwards have always believed deeply that we can change this that two Americans can become one, and that our country can rally around this common purpose. So while his campaign may end today, the cause of their lives endures for all of us who still believe that we can achieve that dream of one America."

A lot of dictators 'elected' in Banana republics agree with you Corky

"Welcome to the independent perspective."

I'll never be an "independent" because I believe in political parties as the only way to achieve a consensus of opinion to get anything accomplished. If we were all independents it would be chaos.
If Democrats became independents the Republicans would automatically win every election.

he still has the best hair!

""The politics of hope wouldn't be necessary, they'd be inherent, if it weren't for the politics of the Clinton and Bush years.""

I think you would need to go back to Nixon to find the birth of modern political cynicism.
What could be more cynical than being a fighter of communism who opened up trade with China and thus pulled the rug out from under every working American?

-they'd be inherent, if

Here is someone who knows nothing of the history of political races going back to the very first ones in our country.

he still has the best hair!

Posted by AuntieSocial


Well, who has the best hair now?

"Well, who has the best hair now?"

Er....Hillary. Is that racist to think Barack doesn't have great hair??

Danni-

I have no idea what road you just turned down, but get back on the highway. You don't need to sign any forms to view something from a different angle. Its the beauty of the mind. Its free to do pretty much anything you let it do.

That is, until an act of congress...

Will Bill O'reallyaliar be bragging that he brought down Edwards???

Innocent?

Prove it dumbass.

Posted by Mista Kurtz

Just look into the research for cerebral palsy caused during childbirth...

The doctors Edwards made millions from, by suing them, did not cause it. They were innocent.

"What could be more cynical than being a fighter of communism who opened up trade with China and thus pulled the rug out from under every working American?"

Oh I see your game. Proving cynicism existed before Clinton exonerates and expunges them from all wrongdoing.

Your honor, I'm not guilty of murder because other people murdered before me! Who cares that I did it a million times?

With Edwards out of the picture don't be surprised if Hillary and Obama take a turn to the right. This is bad news for progressives.

I think you would need to go back to Nixon to find the birth of modern political cynicism.
What could be more cynical than being a fighter of communism who opened up trade with China and thus pulled the rug out from under every working American?
hahaha

Or the trial lawyer who works on behalf of the poor while employed at a hedge fund....the hedge funds that recently liquidated many of their equity holdings causing a 'correction' on wall street and world markets due to their ownership of defaulting 'sub prime loan' holdings which took advantage of the poor Johnny is helping.

bawahahahah!

Will Bill O'reallyaliar be bragging that he brought down Edwards???

Posted by danni


Why would he think that? I don't watch him... has he been trying to take him down?

Corky and Danni-

I don't know anyone who still dwells on the politics and circumstantial cynicism of 25-50 years ago. Maybe just die hard party fanatics. Sad really. Life has moved on without you. Now the Clinton/Bush struggles are fresh and relevent. So can we get back on topic?

""Oh I see your game. Proving cynicism existed before Clinton exonerates and expunges them from all wrongdoing.""

The cynicism of the Whitewater investigation, Ken Starr the special prosecutor who had previous dealings with Paula Jones, the "Contract ON America", the K-street project, the Iraq War for profit, privatization, etc., etc. are examples of Republican cynicism which Bill Clinton fought against. To claim that he was as cynical as they were because he fought against them is ridiculous.
On the other hand he did get a BJ and pardoned a few assholes. The size of the "crimes" is so unequal that the word Republican is now synonymous with cynicism.

Well, who has the best hair now?

Posted by member2586 at 2008-01-30 11:50 AM | Re

Chuck Norris.

Well, who has the best hair now?

Posted by member2586

Huckabee's wifes facial hair has to be near the top.

Jeebus, Ozark Mikey!

Never thought you would sink SO low!

I don't mean the stupid pic, I mean stealing it from an ankle biter like AU. Someone who posts negative threads about Members, apologizes, then posts more?

Doth thy villainy know no bounds?

Danni-

This is exactly my point girl! I too could wrap off a bunch of scandals and question marks in the history of the democrats (there are just as many as repubs...no kid yourself) and perpetuate the same stupid crap over and over for short term gain...like the Clintons do masterfully. Or I can just shrug and move on.

"Well, who has the best hair now?"

Not Friar Tuckabee
Not McCain (what hair?)
Not Obama (too short to tell)
Not Romney (helmetus hairus maximus)

Gotta go with Hillary.

"So can we get back on topic?"

You seem to think that politics today is not directly connected to politics from earlier eras. You really can't even intelligently discuss politics today without recognizing the role that earier politicians play....such as REagan and Reaganonics. Nixon and outsourcing jobs to China. Bush 1 and Reagan and anti-Americanism in Central and S. America.
We are still having problems with Iran resulting from decades long ago.

-Er....Hillary. Is that racist to think Barack doesn't have great hair??


Danni you racist bitch! Bow to the power of the Prophet! Drink the Obamaide now!

"This is exactly my point girl! I too could wrap off a bunch of scandals and question marks in the history of the democrats"

You can try but I doubt you can present anywhere near they types of scandals that have real consequences for the country.

The size of the "crimes" is so unequal that the word Republican is now synonymous with cynicism.

How many were indicted and convicted and served jail time due to his "BJ".

How many were convicted and served jail time due to the corruption he was involved in during his time in Ark and the corruption within his admin?

How many have been convicted and served jail time from the Bush admin?

CORKY why do you hate all black people???

Or maybe I should more correctly ask you why you hate all Halfricans.

CORKY why do you hate all black people???

Posted by danni


How much time you got?

Can someone get RCade to up the length a post can be for just this thread?

CORKY

Get a grip. You post your limit of threads every day negative to a Democratic presidential candidate (we all have had our favorites) and then whine when someone calls you on it.

Try getting a job or something better to do with your time.

I wouldn't have said a word if you'd been a decent, civil person discussing the election rather than a shrill shill being a total jerk day after day.

Grow a pair.

LOL, Danni!

It's almost as bad as my hatered for Half-Ass Holes.

"You seem to think that politics today is not directly connected to politics from earlier eras. You really can't even intelligently discuss politics today without recognizing the role that earier politicians play...."

Don't worry so much about what I "seem to think" and worry more about what I said and what is posed to you in question form. Of course history is relevent and has its place in providing some context. But society is fluid and recent history gives more guidance simply because the issues and contexts are more similar and more relevant. Do I REALLY need to elaborate further? I think even my three year old understands now.

Or maybe I should more correctly ask you why you hate all Halfricans.

Posted by danni

Oh oh...You must not have seen the rules posted by RCADE on yesterdays nooner.

Kevin, let me simplify my point. We are now in or soon will be in a bad recession caused by the economic policies of.......Ronald Reagan.
It's the same shit just with a different president pushing it. It is important for Americans to someday recognize the truth about the evils of Ronnie Raygun and how things that occurred during his administration are even now harming working class Americans.
Obama recognized that fact in his famous Reagan comments.

I posted legit threads from legit sources. You just haven't the intellectual wherewithal to debate the articles, so you attack the messenger with negative threads about a Member, and spamming threads with your trite little pics.

Anklebiter. Away with thee chigger!

""Oh oh...You must not have seen the rules posted by RCADE on yesterdays nooner.""

Oh please, don't flag me bro!

"You can try but I doubt you can present anywhere near they types of scandals that have real consequences for the country."

Who got us into Vietnam? Who insisted on policing the world and bombing foreign sites during the 1990's? Who enacted NAFTA and all the other "free trade" agreements that have had a much greater impact than Nixon opening up trade to China? Do we need to start naming names? How far down this BS useless road you want to go?

Honestly, its fruitless. People who don't care, the vast majority, just want to know what you're going to do in the near future, and what you've done for them lately. Care to try and talk like a normal person again?

Oh please, don't flag me bro!

Posted by danni


Oh hey... thanks for the reminder...

Off to the nooner...

"Away with thee chigger!"

Hmmmm....that rhymes with....OMG!!!

CORKY you got to quit with the racial epithets. You and Bill Clinton got to clean up your acts.

Oh please, don't flag me bro!

Posted by danni

Trust me, I would never do that. But watch the "H" word.

"Care to try and talk like a normal person again?"

I could pretend but I don't think it would fool anyone here.

FF fer Danni!

""Care to try and talk like a normal person again?"

I could pretend but I don't think it would fool anyone here."

Fair enough. I'd respond that Ronald Reagan was not the end-all-be-all of evil in America, but you just have to use a little bit of common sense to see past that crap.

CORKy

Count the negative Clinton threads I've posted and get back to me on honest discourse. Maybe ..... uh...... one a couple of weeks ago in retort to your incessant BS.

You have no intention of an honest discourse, so don't play the victim.

Doth thy villainy know no bounds?

Getting all King James on me now, huh?

Face it Corky, you may as well get used to that photo you posed for. I've already sent it to Senatauh Clintooon's (tm) campaign and it should be in a new ad she's developing for Super Tuesday.

There's competition coming from the Boys in Chaps so don't toss those leather panties just yet.

""Count the negative Clinton threads I've posted and get back to me on honest discourse.""

Care to include the ones posted by others though???
Some days on the back page there are five or six different attacks on the Clintons.
Any unbiased person watching the TV, reading articles here, etc. would conclude that there is a real Clinton bashing being conducted by the MSM.....and sorry but especially MSNBC.

Wow, Danni and Corky sure are showing their true colors and really focusing on bringing the party together. Great job you two!

Obama recognized that fact in his famous Reagan comments.


What comments?

"Any unbiased person watching the TV, reading articles here, etc. would conclude that there is a real Clinton bashing being conducted by the MSM"

Well, follow the thought to its logical conclusion. Why are they doing that? Because it sells. It gets more viewers to criticize her than to kiss her ass. And that's their business above all else...to sell their product. Why does it sell? Because people who pay a lot of attention DON'T LIKE HER! DING DING DING DING.

Why don't they like her? Are they all just evil hearted people? Or do they resent her for actual reasons? Hmmm. Now read the millions of negative Clinton posts again as they STATE THEIR REASONS!

Still confusing?

Count the offensive threads you have posted against a Member here, multiply that 0, and you will have your IQ here on the Drudge.

Integrity Quotient, that is.

"The doctors Edwards made millions from, by suing them, did not cause it. They were innocent."

They were innocent?

Prove it asshole or STFU!

Tax - I wouldn't lump Danni in that category. If you read up through the thread, she's been pretty even-handed in the discussion.

I do think (you can correct me if I'm wrong, Danni) that some of the Clinton tactics are beginning to wear thin with her too.

I'm not giving you back your leather panties no matter how much you beg, Mikey.

Besides, I loaned them to Danni.

You can try but I doubt you can present anywhere near they types of scandals that have real consequences for the country.

Posted by danni at 2008-01-30 12:08 PM | Reply

The Gulf of Tonkin incident?

That's a pretty big one, for starters.

"I wouldn't lump Danni in that category. If you read up through the thread, she's been pretty even-handed in the discussion."

Re-hashing the Nixon years for scandals, calling Ronald Reagen the CAUSE of our CURRENT recession, partisanship for its own sake in every breath. This is your idea of "even handed"?

Wow.

""Why don't they like her? Are they all just evil hearted people? Or do they resent her for actual reasons?""

Quite honestly I believe they have been influenced by fifteen years of continual bashing by the right wing media AND because of Bill's BJ problem the Clinton's inability to counteract the bad publicity. Interesting that in NY where voters know her best she is very popular, interesting that in the SEnate where she works the other senators generally give her very good marks and say she is very easy to work with and that they like her.
You display the results of years of BRAINWASHING.
Disagree???? Then give me some real concrete reasons for the HATRED so many have for her.
BTW....you do know why the Clintons and especially Hillary have been so demonized...right????
Watch, Barack will get the same treatment the minute he mentions the words "nationalized health care." Hundreds of billions of dollars are at stake and they will destroy anyone who even breaths it.

"Why don't they like her?

Posted by kevin23 at 2008-01-30 12:32 PM"

Because all they ever see or hear is negative press about her?

Kevin, the topic of the thread is about Edwards dropping out and what that means re: Clinton & Obama. I'm referring to her comments on topic, not the side-issues you've been fighting about.

""Re-hashing the Nixon years for scandals, calling Ronald Reagen the CAUSE of our CURRENT recession, partisanship for its own sake in every breath. This is your idea of "even handed"?""

Balogna. It is realism. Fact is trickle down caused this mess. It doesn't trickle. I still hear people saying nonsense like more tax cuts will end the recession....that's why it is still relevant.

Danni-

I live in NYC and CA. And no one likes her. He "support" is die-hard party fanatics who hate republicans so much they cant think straight. They sound exactly like you.

I don't need to list and re-hash the years of Clinton controversies. I don't need to give you all the poll data AGAIN showing Clinton's negatives as higher than anyone else. A simple google search and an incentive would suffice.

"Quite honestly I believe they have been influenced by fifteen years of continual bashing by the right wing media AND because of Bill's BJ problem the Clinton's inability to counteract the bad publicity."

So wrong its not even funny. No one cared about the BJ and Rush Limbough except the die hard repubs. They aren't the one that matter.

""This is your idea of "even handed"?

Wow.""

Kevin, earlier in the thread I stated that I am a Democrat and that I believe in party politics. I never claimed to be "even handed" in regards to Republican. I oppose their basic principles....not just their lack of principles.
I will admit that some democrats have no principles but the party itself is based on principles I agree with.

"Kevin, the topic of the thread is about Edwards dropping out and what that means re: Clinton & Obama. I'm referring to her comments on topic, not the side-issues you've been fighting about.

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2008-01-30 12:38 PM "

Ah...cherry picking your data. At least your honest.

"Fact is trickle down caused this mess. It doesn't trickle. I still hear people saying nonsense like more tax cuts will end the recession....that's why it is still relevant."

Yeah right. I remember the democrats in the 1980's screaming that Reagan would do away with the middle class. What happened? It grew.

Doom and gloom. Same old pig. Different lipstick.

Corky

I had no problem with the Clintons (me and several million others) until the last few weeks, and with you because you seem to relish in that type of politics.

The only negative posts I've ever done have been against you and the band of manchild brethern who think it's funny to insult incessantly.

"At least your honest.

Posted by kevin23 at 2008-01-30 12:42 PM"

Nice work, spellcheckasshole.

""He "support" is die-hard party fanatics who hate republicans so much they cant think straight. They sound exactly like you.""

Perhaps age does have something to do with it....being able to remember all the presidents and the effects that Republicans have had on the working class does influence one's viewpoint.
I call that benefiting from experience.
You are very naive if you think Barack Obama or anyone else will end the partisan war....it has gone on for decades and involves too much money.....he will find out just like Bill Clinton did that if you try to put a Democratic agenda into action the Republicans will throw everything they have at you and they own the media.....
BTW, REagan ended the Fairness Doctrine....gee wonder why???

""Yeah right. I remember the democrats in the 1980's screaming that Reagan would do away with the middle class. What happened? It grew.""

It grew poorer. REagan was a union buster.

Monte, you're the self-appointed spelling nazi now?

The last time you spell checked someone, you mis-spelled.

LOL.

"Ah...cherry picking your data. At least your honest."

Kevin -I don't really know why you feel the need to be snarky.

I was referring to prior discussion on the pertinent Clinton-Obama issue that I had been participating in and Danni's comments were quite reasonable.

I was not involved in your side dispute with her and therefore did not comment on it. I responded politely to you explaining what I was talking about. That isn't "cherry picking".

OK, Danni, so just say you don't personally believe there is any hope of achieving any level of discourse above or beyond partisanship for the sake of partisanship and be done with it. It explains a lot.

Never mind the fact that there are 300M people and hundreds of vital issues that transcend party lines.

"That isn't "cherry picking"

Sure it is. You just feel like it was justifiable, that's all. Don't get overly defensive, its just the internet my friend.

Posting comments and posting threads are two different things, Chigger.

-band of manchild brethern who think it's funny to insult incessantly.

AU, Leader of the Band.

"It grew poorer. REagan was a union buster."

It did? Care to show statistics or other data to support your claim that the middle class is now poorer since Reagan too office?

For the spelling nazi's:

too=took

""OK, Danni, so just say you don't personally believe there is any hope of achieving any level of discourse above or beyond partisanship for the sake of partisanship and be done with it. It explains a lot.""

I will "admit" this Kevin, no National Health Care system will ever be passed without a fillibuster proof Dem. majority. No Democratic agenda will ever go forward without such a majority.
You can call that "partisanship" if you want but it is really just reality of a two party system. One party rules the other party tries to prevent them from achieving their agenda. The larger the issues the larger the battles. All this kumbaya talk is utter nonsense. It sounds great in a campaign but in reality it is meaningless. Fact is if Barack Obama is inaugurated president he will be hit with the strongest attacks to prevent him from succeeding as president that the Republicans can mount. Pretending it isn't so won't change anything.

Excuse me? Who is the spellchecker?

So in addition to being a dickhead, you're a liar too, Kevin? What a fucking douche. (By the way, new guy, if you haven't learned already, you'll learn soon that it's hard to pull off lies like this when your posting history is available to all.)


"lol...Kenin?

Someone needs to get off their daddy's computer and go do their spelling homework.

Posted by kevin23 at 2008-01-29 06:38 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e


So in addition to being an dickwad, you're also a spellchecker? Sweet.

Posted by mOntecOre at 2008-01-29 06:57 PM | Reply"

""For the spelling nazi's:""

Sorry Kevin, I'll have to flag you for calling them nazis.

It should be "spelling Republicans" if you want to be PC.

"At least your honest.

Posted by kevin23 at 2008-01-30 12:42 PM"

His honest what?

I'VE BEEN SUCKER PUNCHED!

What happened? Just four stupid states like Iowa, SC, and NH and Florida decide the presidential choices for the rest of the nation??? I'm angry!

How the hell did McCain -- the VERY pro-NAU globalist thug who agrees with Bush on turning our nation over to the NAU end up the frontrunner?

Hillary = McCain = Bush (they are all best friends behind the scenes) and all three are globalists. Hillary and McCain walk in lockstep with Bush in agreeing to a North American Union. Rudy -- another NAU globalist thug is going to endorse McCain.

Do you all see what's happening here?
The NAU globalists are all positioning themselves into the final runnning. WE ARE DOOMED.

That little puke Guiliani is out here in California today. He'll probably land at Bob Hope Airport near my house.

Hillary, McCain as the final choices -- two Bush peas in a pod???

MY COUNTRY IS LOST!

I am not going into my room and pout.

am not going into my room and pout.

I don't know how the word "not" got in there!

Take out the word "not"

I AM going into my room and pout.
I'll probably be there until November.

H.Clinton = Bush In A Skirt !

-Sarge

Montecore-

I'm feel sorry for you, really. Any "successful attorney" who needs to throw rocks on the internet must be compensating for something. I have a theory.

And I invite a reading of that thread in its entirety. Cherry picking can be fun, but sunshine is the disinfectant.

""Yeah right. I remember the democrats in the 1980's screaming that Reagan would do away with the middle class. What happened? It grew.""

Grew Smaller And Poorer !!!

-Sarge

CHRIS

I'm sorry. Edwards is a good guy who kept the conversation in the right place on the Dem side.

I hope you won't sit out the primary next week. Your vote does matter.

"Sorry Kevin, I'll have to flag you for calling them nazis.

It should be "spelling Republicans" if you want to be PC."

Ah yes...the old republicans are nazi's line of reasoning. I'm sure that will win Hillary the election. You should go with that.

"Grew Smaller And Poorer !!!"

Proof?

"And I invite a reading of that thread in its entirety. Cherry picking can be fun, but sunshine is the disinfectant.

Posted by kevin23 at 2008-01-30 01:11 PM"

You wanna admit that you were the spellchecker, and that my egregious spelling error occurred when I called you on it, not when I was spellchecking someone else's post? Or do you want to continue lying about it?

Chigger Boy

In all the years I have been here, I, and 99 percent of the other posters here, have never posted negative threads about a Member. You have now done so twice in your short tenure as Lame Troll Extraordinaire.

I posted legitimate substantive articles from national sources that you don't agree with, so your response is to bash another Member by posting negative threads about them.

You apologized for the first one, then posted another.

Pathetic doesn't cover it.

Hillary, McCain as the final choices -- two Bush peas in a pod???

CailfChris

There IS another option Chris. A vote not cast is a vote gained for someone you'd rather not have in office.

"Ah yes...the old republicans are nazi's line of reasoning. I'm sure that will win Hillary the election. You should go with that."

Wanted: One moderate sense of humor. Cheap. Contact Kevin23.

I told you to go do your spelling homework. You proceeded to check spelling for the next two days...even mis-spelling your criticisms of other peoples' mis-spelling...and you're still at it. Now, who really got the better of that exchange?

Are you going to appeal to your "authority" again? Your "success"? LOL.

Et tu, Sarge?


Please line up Bush and Clinton policy similarities for me to check out, eh?

While you are at it, link me to where Bush is in favor of leaving Iraq, providing health care, cutting middle class taxes, and signing legislation for the public financing of Fed elections.

SanAn - Lol. Kevin has got to be the biggest downer this site has seen in several years. I'm sure everyone groans when he shows up at a party, uninvited of course.

hope he endorses obama

WANTED: The ability to spot a sarcastic response to a sarcastic message. Free and Now! Contact SANANTONIOROGUE.

""H.Clinton = Bush In A Skirt !

-Sarge""

First off, Hillary Clinton rarely wears a skirt.

Secondly, she was talking national health care in 1993 and you say she is just like Bush????
That's simply ridiculous.
When she suggests making the tax cuts for the rich permanent then I'll consider your idea...till then it's simply typical Clinton bashing brought about by years of media attacks. If the media repeats something enough times, long enough even Democrats start believing the crap they say about the Clintons. Fact is Bill Clinton was a good president who was prevented from accomplishing very much by an extremely hateful REpublican Congress.

Monte calling me a downer?

LOL!!!!

Yet he follows me around throwing rocks from a far...touting his "success" at every turn. Pathetic.

Kevin, your inability to discern sarcasm is obvious. You couldn't tell that was a joke????

Hillary has the ability to be President as does just about every person in the US. That goes for all the candidates.

We have seen that experience and strength of character and education and etc. etc. etc. doesn't guarantee that they will do the job effectively.

How many wars have we been in since WWII? How much experience and strength of character and education did all the predecessors have in the White House and Congress? They still made mistakes and violated laws, right?

Congress sucks yet we re-elect the same fools. Bad job performance and they get to keep the job. Lots of R's and D's that pull one lever -party over country.

Unless the law provides the requirements, nobody and everybody is fit for the job. They all suck. We all suck. But, given the job - we just hope the elected will do better than expected. That's not really a high expectation.

And, two presidents in the past 50 years were charged with perjury and obstruction of justice.
I haven't found BJ in any of the Congressional charges.

Doesn't matter. They were as guilty of their crimes as many of the Congress are. How many in Congress have criminal records, have their own run-ins with the law. These are our representatives.

We need more parties than two.

Oh, so you're an exaggerator in addition to being a liar and a downer? Please show more than one post of mine "touting my success," or be exposed once again.

So was my response, Danni. Sorry, but that road goes two ways.

"WANTED: The ability to spot a sarcastic response"

Yeah, sometimes you forget to hit "send" on your sarcasm emoticon.

You sure are a know-it-all for a newbie there.

A vote not cast is a vote gained for someone you'd rather not have in office.

That is complete bull shit. A vote not cast is exactly that, a vote not cast.

Corky

Your nonstop Obama bashing is ridiculous.

You also proved you have no respect for other posters here by posting two more 'fuck you' threads within minutes of my asking you nicely to knock off the attacks on a fellow Democratic candidate.

Don't try to come off as walking the high road. You've been down in the gutter with Bill too long and have zero regard for anyone's views who aren't in sync with yours.

Like I said, I had no problem with Hillary until they started their Karl Rove race baiting and outright lying campaign tactics. You happily joined them in bashing for bashing's sake.

You want to honestly debate the merits of your candidate, fine. I haven't seen it yet. If you call me a chigger it must be a good thing.

Monte-

The truth hurts don't it? Not going to waste my time proving what everyone already knows or could care less about.

Find a new hobby. Following me around and hurling pathetic insults...trolling...is not the mark of "success" any way you cut it. Its just riding coat-tails.

We need more parties than two.

That could happen in a DNC brokered convention.

A chigger is an ankle biter, a minor distraction.

No comment on your posting negative threads against Members, eh? Just excuses for your pathetic lack of integrity.

you guy = your guy

Lil' Kev - you wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in your fat pimply ass, kid. Why don't you run along, let the adults talk, and go bore someone else. I agree with SanAn - for a new guy, you sure are full of yourself.

"Yeah, sometimes you forget to hit "send" on your sarcasm emoticon.

You sure are a know-it-all for a newbie there."

Those who live in glass houses...

And forgive me for not knowing or responding to the caste system you believe exists regarding "newness". I wasn't aware that anonymous posters were so protective of it.

And truth is, I'm just a very sarcastic guy who likes to hold up a mirror to fallacies when I see them. I'm not perfect, and don't want to be. Doesn't change the fact that an honest thought is an honest thought. Responding is one option. Another is ignoring. Beautiful stuff, this internet, this America.

Edwards is a class act.

His story of the bridge he passed under this morning, where a minister feeds the homeless, is the reality. Poverty needs to be an important issue in America once again. The 'he who dies with the most wins' mentailty has bankrupted America's moral high ground as much as our actions in starting a needless war.

I hope he's the VP candidate or AG under whichever Dem might win the WH. He deserves a place in our government as a voice for those who have none.

Kudos.

Hi All

For any Edwards supporters out there I ask you to consider backing Obama. He has the best chance to unite the nation, the party and help regular folks.

As to the Clintons how can any of us restore the Clintons? The Clinton administration pushed through NAFTA and GAAT. Their trade policies helped to destroy the manufacturing base of this country and in the end weakened our economy. But it effects are now being felt by white color and hi tech workers as accountants and software programmers and engineers see their jobs sent overseas.

The Clintons some how managed to work hand and hand with the Republicans to pass their agenda of NAFTA, GAAT, Defence of Marriage and Welfare Reform while still managing to precede over a divided and bitter eight years of political acrimony.

Heck I have not even mentioned the Clinton's initial and support for the war in Iraq.

This nation cannot ignore the 22nd Amendment and restore the Clinton Dynasty. This is a change election, the Clintons will just be more of the same!

Make an OBAMA 08 sign and stick it in the window. Change this nation!

Thank you

"Lil' Kev - you wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in your fat pimply ass, kid. Why don't you run along, let the adults talk, and go bore someone else. I agree with SanAn - for a new guy, you sure are full of yourself."

Awww. More rock-throwing. How adorable. I think he likes me.

So, Mr. Expert, tell me more about myself. Its fascinating to watch someone defecate in word form.

"You want to honestly debate the merits of your candidate, fine. I haven't seen it yet."

I still remember when it used to be fun to banter with Corky. There was a time when there could be good-natured teasing back and forth, while still positively supporting respective candidates.

Somewhere along the line he got completely carried away responding to Tony Roma's posts and he turned ugly with everyone. I think most of the regulars on here noticed it and commented on the change, which only infuriated him more.

I'll be the first to admit that eventually I allowed him to drag me down that path too. Twice I reached out and extended an olive branch but got it thrown back in my face.

So, no more. Corky, post whatever you want. If I find the thread interesting I'll post, but I will not respond to you, nor will I attack you in any way.

Good luck the rest of the way in the primaries. May the best candidate win.

Edwards is a class act.

I know and that's why he didn't stand a chance.

Monte-

What firm do you work for?

And the truth is, K23, you're just a sarcastic asshole with nothing interesting to say. Get over yourself.

CHRIS

We had that same argument here where I live - driver's licenses for illegals.

My own view is it's better to know who's here than not and to ensure they're at least insured. They're here until someone at the federal level cares enough to make sure they aren't.

What I don't understand is why every illegal stopped by the cops isn't immediately put on a plane south. Police here say they call INS and rarely do they respond.

Touchy issue. Especially where you live.

"What firm do you work for?

Posted by kevin23 at 2008-01-30 01:38 PM"

Noe of your business, kid. Why do you ask?

""So was my response, Danni. Sorry, but that road goes two ways.""

Ok, fair enough, I didn't catch it but then I'm not always the best at spotting sarcasm even in my day to day real life.

BTW by the caste system here on DR I am a Brahmin.

"And the truth is, K23, you're just a sarcastic asshole with nothing interesting to say"

More rock-throwing. With your vast expertise of my personality, I guess I'll just have to take that as gospel, eh? I mean, selectively reading a few posts on one internet sight...that's a ton of research.

"Noe of your business, kid."

I thought so. Get back to me when you want to have a REAL pissing contest.

"selectively reading a few posts on one internet sight....

Posted by kevin23 at 2008-01-30 01:42 PM"

Nice work, spellcheckasshole.

Where do you work Kevin? (Assuming you work.)

Danni-

"BTW by the caste system here on DR I am a Brahmin"

Us "untouchables" will have to bear that in mind, I suppose.

And no worries, I'm tough enough to handle it if you are. I just really thought you might understand the independent and republican mindset as it relates to Hillary. We just don't like her for a host of reasons. It goes well past the right-wing slime machine.

I'm an attorney at Winston Strawn. Your turn.

If you are any bit "successful", then I know I'll know someone you know. So lets have it, Monte.

"It goes well past the right-wing slime machine."

I think it is almost impossible for anyone in the US to have an open mind concerning the Clintons. Too many years of non-stop media attention, most of it bashing them, is impossible to remove from our memory banks. I honestly believe that subliminally most Americans have been convinced to hate the Clintons irrationally. Disagreeing with their ideas could cause one to oppose them but I doubt it would cause so much visceral hatred. Probably that is one good reason not to vote for Hillary if you want a Democratic president. It's unfair but it is reality.

Monte-

Eager beaver are we?

Where do you work?

Monte, why would you post all of that info?

Because he can't fight a fair fight.

"I'm an attorney at Winston Strawn. Your turn."

Did someone ask?

And he is 100% certain that he

a. has an accurate and updated directory, and

b. knows for certain what my first name is

Assumptiveness does not a good lawyer make.

"Monte, why would you post all of that info?"

Kevin posted the name of his firm so he doesn't seem to be worried about privacy issues.

I'm just worried about which of Monte's and Kevin's customers are absorbing the billable hours for DR time! LoL!

Kevin - I am not going to tell you my name, where I work, my address, or any other personal info. People have done that here in the past, and bad things happened as a result. It's nothing personal, really.

Also, for the same reason, if I were you I wouldn't post your personal info here either. Someone might show up at your door with a dog, or offer you a ride home, or other things like that.

"Did someone ask?"

Yes. I know. Reading is hard.

AU

My own view is it's better to know who's here than not and to ensure they're at least insured. They're here until someone at the federal level cares enough to make sure they aren't.

That argument was already used by the pro-illegal groups but it doesn't hold water. The documents used to apply for a DL will be fraudulent anyway so any info you put into a data base will simply be "garbage in garbage out" since phony birth certificates, etc. will be used to apply for a DL. As for paying for car insurance? Are you kidding? They won't buy car insurance. What WILL happen is by giving DL to illegals you will alllow the increase of uninsured motorists on our freeways and roads here in CA to increase by the millions and then GUESS WHO has a huge increase in their "uninsured motorists" premiums -- U.S. citizens who are driving here and paying for their car insurance Sorry, why do you think 2/3 of this state do not want it. Besides, this showed Obama's open border mindset.

WHY would Obama pander to illegal aliens who don't vote anyway plus the Hispanic vote is only 6% of the entire country. Besides, Latinos here in CA who are U.S citizens do NOT want illegals to get drivers ilcenses. They don't want to have to compete with illegals for truckdriving jobs, delivery jobs, etc. which they would have to do it illegal aliens are allowed driver's licenses.

Obama sided with a guy named Gil Cedillo who is a well-known idiot of apolitican here in CA. Cedillo is a clown. Every year for about 12 years he brings up a bill to give drivers licenses to illegal aliens. And EVERY year it is shot down and vetoed. This clown is called "One Bill Gil" because this is a fetish with him. For Obama to side with this idiot who is a laughing stock out here in CA shows he did not do his homework. Obama's competition will clobber him on this issue and use "national security" as the club because drivers licenses were given to two of the 9-11 hijackers too. BAD MOVE. Besides -- are you going to pay for my huge increase in "uninsured motorist" premiums when 8 million or so illegal aliens get a drivers license but refuse to pay for car insurance? That's exactly what will happen. To me it showed where and with whom Obama stands and its not with respect for our laws or for the welfare of U.S. citizens if he wants to reward illegals with THE MAJOR I.D. card in this nation. Sorry, CA has a lot of electoral votes and we vote issues out here in CA that affect us in the pocketbook -- just like everywhere else. Does Tennessee give driver's licenses to illegal?

"Kevin - I am not going to tell you my name, where I work, my address, or any other personal info. People have done that here in the past, and bad things happened as a result. It's nothing personal, really."

Monte, all you've been is personal towards me. I'm just following it to its logical end. I knew you'd back down. Thanks for proving my point for me.

"Yes. I know. Reading is hard."

And replying to a sarcastic question with specific information about where you work is stupid. Obviously Monte is a lot smarter than you, since he gave the correct answer: None of your business.

"Because he can't fight a fair fight.

Posted by kevin23 at 2008-01-30 02:00 PM"

I truly don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

SanAn - I don't bill my clients by the hour. Kevin's boss, an attorney, probably does, and so does his paralegal. But most secretaries are not billed out, so he's probably alright too.

"Notice that now he's "black", not mixed-race, with no mention or sight of his white grandmother, Madelyn Dunham."

Incorrect.

"Three days after winning the South Carolina primary, forging a coalition of black and white voters, Mr. Obama selected this old oil town where his maternal grandfather was reared to open a weeklong tour of states holding primaries and caucuses Feb. 5...

So Mr. Obama, of Illinois, returned to the story that started his campaign a year ago...of a white mother from Kansas and a black father from Kenya, who "span miles and generations, races and realities."

And..

"Barack Obama has Midwestern values, values that we know about," Sebelius said. "He got them from his grandparents and from his mom," the Kansas branch of Obama's multiracial family. (His mother was white; his father was a black Kenyan.)

"He understands how to bring people together across party lines," she said. "He knows about not just working for the individual good but working for the common good . . . the kinds of values we believe in here in the heartland."

Stanley and Madelyn Dunham, Obama's maternal grandparents, came of age here during the Great Depression. As a young man, his grandfather "found odd jobs on small farms and oil rigs, always dodging the bank failures and foreclosures that were sweeping the nation at the time," Obama said Tuesday.

Okay, got to run.
Time to go back and pout about my guy Edwards dropping out of the race. I'm still mad!

Monte-

I challenged you to show your cards. You backed down. Keep throwing rocks from the shadows if you can't sack up and step up to the plate, but know that you've been called out.

Kevin - I can't tell you how fun it's been conversing with you, but I gotta run. You can go piss on someone else now, since you've already "proved your point" with me.

What a Barney.

SanAn - I don't bill my clients by the hour. Kevin's boss, an attorney, probably does, and so does his paralegal. But most secretaries are not billed out, so he's probably alright too.

That's exactly right. Attorneys (associates and partners) all do hourly billing as do paralegals so that their billing hours can be changed to the client. Legal secretaries' time is not billable to the client.

Notice how I don't blindly hurl insults...I asked you honest questions about yourself.

"Yes. I know. Reading is hard.

Posted by kevin23 at 2008-01-30 02:03 PM"

You truly are a dick, aren't you? Does your mother even like you?

p.s. Ha ha ha. Because I choose not to tell you where I work, etc., I've been called out? What a maroon.

Montecore

Don't give out your private info. You're being baited by this guy. Careful.

"To me it showed where and with whom Obama stands and its not with respect for our laws or for the welfare of U.S. citizens if he wants to reward illegals with THE MAJOR I.D. card in this nation.

Posted by CalifChris at 2008-01-30 02:04 PM"

You might need a lot of booze this election, as it may very well be Obama vs. McCain. Amnesty will be a given.

And it worked better than all the insults in the world. The truth must really hurt.

Have a nice day, troll.

Kevin - as you might have heard, Winston Strawn is a large firm with bunches of lawyers in several cities. You haven't exactly identified yourself, tough guy.

"You truly are a dick, aren't you? Does your mother even like you?

p.s. Ha ha ha. Because I choose not to tell you where I work, etc., I've been called out? What a maroon."

I love Johnny-come-lately but has to opine.

You have no clue what your talking about, yet you really think you do. Hilarious.

And the insults are just oh so hurtful coming from such an expert. lol. A maroon indeed.

CC - don't worry. I'd have to be as stupid as Kevin from Winston Strawn to do that.

Monte-

You've done nothing but run away from my questions...tough guy. Sack up or admit your an assumptive idiot who has an imaginary identity he's not very good at emulating.

LIVE OR DIE

I don't care if we give amnesty to illegals already here -- IF they haven't broken another law while here.

What I DO care about is the elephant in the room no one mentions -- the North American Union -- that is being pushed thru. Clinton, McCain and the rest of them -- THAT is the goal. That is also why the open borders and massive invasion of cheap illegal labor has been allowed to happen. You need to always keep your eye on the big picture. Besides, the McCain/Kennedy bill was MUCH MORE than simple amnesty (with which I didn't have much problem if it was ONLY amnesty) but it wasn't. Did you know a clause in the amensty bill by McCain "fast tracked" the NAU? There was a lot more in that bill too than just simple amnesty. Read it sometime.

This is more fun than a big dick contest at a gay bar.
Sincerely, Barney Frank

Keep your fake bone.

Its just like the rest of you. Fake.

Ha ha ha!!! We have another internet tough guy! Awesome - it's been months since our last one. Fucking hilarious. Do you pull your own teeth? Set your own fractures? Next you'll be telling us how big your dick is and how often you get laid. You're a fucking crack up.

Midiman, would you call your insurance agent if you had a ruptured testicle?

Posted by wisgod



Yes, and if it were the result of someone else's negligence, I'd call my lawyer, too.

Kind of obvious, no?

"How about this: you and I pick a street corner. We meet. Then I show you exactly what you need to see. Fair enough?

Posted by kevin23"

Monte - just send Frank Cotton to handle it.

Waddle on out to the street corner, Kevin from Winston Strawn. Or should we just meet by the flag pole after school? I'm so scared right now I can't even describe it.

"I'm so scared right now I can't even describe it."

lol...Its quite obvious.

"LIVE OR DIE

I don't care if we give amnesty to illegals already here -- IF they haven't broken another law while here."
--CC

I do in the sense that I think we should worry about securing the border first, and then give amnesty to those already here who haven't broken other laws.

Otherwise, the amnesty plans will just draw more illegals looking for citizenship.

SanAn - Even I'm not mean enough to sick Frank on Kevin from Winston Strawn.

Hey you two, Marquess of Queensberry rules will be observed out on the playground!

"What I DO care about is the elephant in the room no one mentions -- the North American Union "
--CC

That too.

Wis - I ain't listening to you after you tried to kill me.

Kevin,

I could kick your ass by raising one eyebrow.

Sincerely,
Frank Cotton

Wis - I ain't listening to you after you tried to kill me.

Posted by mOntecOre


You're going to think we were ballroom dancing after Kev get's done with you. ;)

Isn't it obvious that the MSM is ignoring the immigration issue(s). They are letting candidates slide without being forced to discuss in detail what they intend to do about it and thing is we all know that they will have to deal with it during their first term in office. We, the people, should be louder in our insistence that immigration issues need in depth discussion BEFORE we select two nominees who both agree with each other on the subject.

Thank god, Frank is here. Frank! Kevin from Winston Strawn is being a big meanie to me! Tell him to be nice or you're going to get him!

SanAntonioRogue-

I notice you like to instigate. For the record, I can respect that.

When I'm not being the dancing monkey, I too am entertained by it.

Monte is just riding my ass because he thinks it makes him feel better. The truth is much more telling. No more feeding the troll today.

And no worries about my billables folks, I know you were very concerned...I managed to completely clean my office in the last 3 hours. I'd say it was more productive than most days and will allow me to work and bill more efficiently for months. :)

"I could kick your ass by raising one eyebrow."

Its a bet.

""I could kick your ass by raising one eyebrow."

Its a bet."

And totally worth it if I'm wrong.

"Isn't it obvious that the MSM is ignoring the immigration issue"

Danni, who stands to gain by discussing it? I agree it is being swept under the rug. But why?

Hey Sarge! Good to see you around.

"You must be some attorney"

Thanks. I appreciate that. Coming from you it means a lot.

Kevin, I think that a candidate who rightly reads the public about immigration could gain a lot by making it an issue. Were I Hillary I think I would alter my position to one a little less forgiving of illegals, a little stronger on protecting the border and much tougher on employers of illegals.
I think there is a HUGE amount of outrage among us working class folks that could be easily harnessed.
This is a labor issue and should be approached that way by Democrats. Hillary could also lay out changes for NAFTA which could alleviate some of the feeling among workers that Bill is partially responsible for lagging wages due to the flooded labor market. Hey, right about now it might be a good idea for Hillary to push Bill out of the lime light a little to demonstrate that she, not he, will be president.

Two Pinocchios' for Hillary Clinton
January 24, 2008
By Susan Jones

One of the nation's major, liberal-leaning newspapers is giving Sen. Hillary Clinton "two Pinocchios" for "significant omissions or exaggerations" at Monday's Democratic debate in South Carolina.

And a former Senate leader -- a Democrat -- is part of a new South Carolina Truth Squad to counter the Bill and Hillary Clintons' "incredible distortions."


In a page A-7 "Fact Checker" column on Wednesday, The Washington Post noted that Clinton and her Democratic rival Sen. Barack Obama "sparred repeatedly" at Monday's debate in South Carolina, with Clinton "questioning Obama about his ties to a real estate developer and his comments about Ronald Reagan."

The column, by Michael Dobbs, said "Clinton is reading too much into Obama's remark that Republicans were the 'party of ideas' and is overlooking her own kind words about Reagan."

The column also said that Clinton exaggerated when she accused Obama of "representing your contributor [Tony] Rezko in his slum landlord business in inner-city Chicago."

According to the Post's "fact-checker," all that's been demonstrated so far is that Obama, as a junior lawyer doing the bidding of his bosses, "did some due diligence legal work for a joint venture between Rezko and a Chicago nonprofit."

In another development, former Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle (D-S.D.) is part of a new South Carolina Truth Squad formed to counter the Clintons' attacks on Obama.

"We wanted to talk a little bit today about the incredible distortions that are coming from the Clinton campaign, in particular, and our desire to set the record straight," said Daschle in a conference call with reporters on Tuesday. "Our purpose is to respond forcefully to each and every one of these allegations."

The Truth Squad has set up a toll-free number voters may call if they receive mailings or phone calls smearing Obama.

Daschle said Bill Clinton's recent comments about Obama are "not in keeping with the role of a former president."

He also warned that the Clintons' attacks on a fellow Democrat are going to "divide us. It's going to have a lasting effect down the road if it doesn't stop soon," Daschle said

H.Clinton Is A Liar Just Like Bush !

-Sarge

Merry Maids would certainly be a major client. So sadly, no. Thanks though, Hans. I always appreciate an honest and solid guess.

SARGE

Good to see you again!

Danni-

Every candidate is saying that. They all say we need stronger enforcement in one form or another. But what about the 12M people already here. I think that is what separates the men from the boys...forgive the figure of speech.

"SanAntonioRogue-

I notice you like to instigate."

I'll just let you respond to yourself on that one...

"With your vast expertise of my personality, I guess I'll just have to take that as gospel, eh? I mean, selectively reading a few posts on one internet sight...that's a ton of research.

Posted by kevin23 at 2008-01-30 01:42 PM"

Hi Monte !!!

Hope all is well, I'm just working hard keeping the Troops "Razor Sharp" for H. Clinton's and Bush's War. Trying to get Danni to see "The Truth" of the matter.

Thanks !

-Sarge

Hey Kevin,

How would you like to gnaw on one of my hand-delivered knuckle sandwiches?

Sincerely,
Frank Cotton

SAN-

Touche'

But did you at least pick up on the sarcasm this time?

Thanks Chris !!!

Good to see you are on top of things on the West Coast !

-Sarge

"Clinton kept her name on the Michigan ballot when others removed theirs, she campaigned this past weekend in Florida,"

Not really true. She was fund raising but didn't run commercials, or do other normal campaign activities.

Actually, after reading both of your posts I have to ask....what's the big deal. Mountains out of mole hills is the best description I can think of.
This type of nitpicking is actually alienating many voters, including me. Several times I've considered switching my support to Barack but then I read one of these nitpicking posts and think...when you have a real issue the post it, but this nitpicking nonsense just turns me off.

"You must be some attorney"

What's with all the lawyers around here?

Does this count as billable hours? (strictly a rhetorical question: We know the answer)

"How would you like to gnaw on one of my hand-delivered knuckle sandwiches?"

Does it taste like chicken?

"Touche'

But did you at least pick up on the sarcasm this time?"

Oh, sarcasm. Riiiiiiiight.

Hey, right about now it might be a good idea for Hillary to push Bill out of the lime light a little to demonstrate that she, not he, will be president.- Danni

Yes, Danni, she will probably do that for a while - it is her reaction to letting Bill go overboard. But she needed him to do something and he did it and he will be back in there when she needs him.

It is not a healthy relationship for her to be so dependent on him. But the simple fact is that she is where she is because of him and that's that.

What Hillary and her people have to decide is the impossible. Is Bill good or bad for the ticket?

The answer is both. So that is one of her problems, and she shows no sign of doing anything but turning to him when she needs him and turning away when she thinks she doesn't. It is, like everything else about her, putting expediency and politics above conviction.

this nitpicking nonsense just turns me off.

Pray tell, what is it about Senatauh Clintooon (tm) that turns you on?

Had to ask...

"Hey Kevin,

How would you like to gnaw on one of my hand-delivered knuckle sandwiches?

Sincerely,
Frank Cotton"

Steady now Frank, go easy on the boy. He's new in town and jest don't know no better.

ohhhh, Frank Cotton is back!

**swoon**

Kevin, that's what I mean, they are all saying basicly the same thing, one of them should say something different that the working class folks are waiting to hear. Even if it was just that they would station troops on the Mexican border, anything....just to protect it better than the stated policies of the other candidates. As Chris said above Barack has said he supports DLs for illegals...seems to me that is an easy opportunity for Hillary.

"Does it taste like chicken?"

No. It tastes like humble pie mixed with crow.

"But did you at least pick up on the sarcasm this time?"

Oh, sarcasm. Riiiiiiiight.

Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2008-01-30 02:54 PM"

Lol. Kevin from Winston Strawn - Sarcastic Asshole, or just a Dick?

JAD

"It tastes like humble pie mixed with crow."

Ask Monte what that tastes like...then I'll decide, ok chief?

Danni,

She is just like Bush she makes up "Her Own Rules", Why did she stay on the Ballot when all others did not ? Why does she Lie about the Facts On Obama ? Why did she support the Iraq War; then only this Spring state she was wrong? Could it be when Edwards called her out on it during Campaigning and the "Far Left" booed her at each and every speech she gave ? She is A Calculating Opportunist, that is Pimped by K Street !

-Sarge

Well, my man is out. I will join my Republican father-in-law, mother-in-law and brother-in-law and vote for Obama. Along with my democratic wife and daughter who have been supporting him since Iowa. Hillary has too much baggage.
As for the experience question, the Bush cronies had decades of experience and terrible judgment.
I would rather have good judgment than the experience of neo-cons.

Monte-

Keep saying my name. You love it, don't you dirty boy?

"It is, like everything else about her, putting expediency and politics above conviction."

You recite the script which has been repeated thousands (millions?) of times by the right about Hillary.
In truth I have read many personal accounts by people who know her well who say the exact opposite about her.
But then what would people who know her knwo??? Better to rely on personal friends like Rush Limbaugh.

Lol. Kevin from Winston Strawn - Sarcastic Asshole, or just a Dick?

One opinion...

Winston and Strawn was started in 1853 by former slaveholders who figured out that the bottom was about to drop out of their market; and since all the other most profitable rackets were taken, they decided to start a law firm. All attorneys receive `diversity training` in the form of a 2 hour training session (only two hours??? Racists!!!). The firm is ranked #35 in prestige, meaning there are 34 firms more prestigious than Winston and Strawn! However, the firm was ranked #3 for snootiness.

Philip Morris likes 'em, though. Slaveholders. Classic.

"Keep saying my name. You love it, don't you dirty boy?

Posted by kevin23 at 2008-01-30 03:02 PM"

Not as much as I like it when you call me dirty boy. When are we going to meet, sweetie?

Winston and Strawn is staffed by girlie boys.

Sincerely,
Frank Cotton

"Well, my man is out. I will join my Republican father-in-law, mother-in-law and brother-in-law and vote for Obama."

To me that argument makes perfect sense as a reason to vote for Barack Obama while much of the other nitpicking, name calling, hate, etc. are irrational.
It will be interesting to see how much "baggage" Barack picks up if he endures in national politics as long as have the Clintons.....and well....hopefully doesn't share Bill's inability to behave.

When are we going to meet, sweetie?

Tarts or Torts. You be the judge...

All internet tough guys, except of course Mr. Frank Cotton, are girlie boys.

All internet tough guys, except of course Mr. Frank Cotton, are girlie boys.

Never has one poster alienated so many so quickly since the carnage under the brutal reign of Tadowe the Bloviator. Oh the humanity...

Fucking goddamned double posting mother fucker.

You recite the script which has been repeated thousands (millions?) of times by the right about Hillary.

No Danni, not just by the right. By the Democrats who think, by the Democrats who question Hillary's entire stance on why she feels and behaves as if she is entitled to the nomination. "It's My Turn".

By the Democrats (and Independents and Republicans) who see in Obama the person we need to break this agonizing way of being governed that we have to endure.

I'm wondering if our new friend Kevin from Winston Strawn will end up starting over with a new handle, or if he is one of those freaks who enjoys the abuse. Time will tell, I suppose.

Sincerely,
Frank Cotton

Must have an exhumation. Last known residence of Cotton Boll was up the ass of some stiff stupid enough to pay for embalming.

Next thing, his fans will be hawking his Resurrection.

Can the Rapture be far away?

"No Danni, not just by the right. By the Democrats who think, by the Democrats who question Hillary's entire stance on why she feels and behaves as if she is entitled to the nomination. "It's My Turn"."

I've never heard her say "It's my turn." That is exactly the kind of crap that is repeated about her over and over with absolutely no basis in fact. The thing is she had the nerve to run for president and some of y'all were already Hillary haters because of the torrent of crap that has been said over and over about her for years and years. It may work out that Barack is nominated, he might get elected, he might be a good president. However, nothing he has done so far makes me believe that his supporters are basing their worship of him on anything other than just hype. He speaks well...big deal. He made a speech against the Iraq invasion...ok a good point but he wasn't in the Senate and didn't have to consider the responsiblity of protecting the nation at the time. I can understand someone choosing to support him but this ridiculous level of support makes me think we as Democrats are being set up. I heard Richard Belzer the other day saying Rupert Murdoch has the dirt on Barack but is waiting until after the nomination. I don't know if it is true but then neither do you. Just be careful who you worship.

The reason my Republican relatives are voting for Obama. They cannot stand Hillary, McCain, or Mitt.

Sarge, if that type of attack is typical of the basis for your irrational hatred of Hillary Clinton....then it does make me realize why I support her. That was disgusting. I quit listening when the asshole says "her so-called husband Bill Clinton." What utter crap. I used to think you were smarter than that.

She Is A Cheap Stiffer Also:

NPR News:Hillary Clinton Stiffs Waitress,Then Lies About It....She Had A Loose Meat Sandwich,LOL! - Post Media Reply
Election 2008
Clinton Campaign Says It Tipped Maid-Rite Waitress
by Renee Montagne and David Greene



Morning Edition, November 9, 2007 A waitress causes a stir on the political blogs. The waitress at a Maid-Rite restaurant in Iowa says she did not get a tip after serving presidential hopeful Sen. Hillary Clinton, a Democrat from New York. But the Clinton campaign says a $100 tip was left at the table.


NPR.org, November 8, 2007 It started as an aside in a longer interview, but it became an Internet sensation within hours.

Anita Esterday, a waitress at the Maid-Rite in Toledo, Iowa, told NPR's David Greene in a report that aired on Morning Edition Thursday that "nobody got left a tip" on Oct. 8, when Clinton sat at the lunch counter and ordered up the restaurant's famous loose-meat sandwich.

Esterday served Clinton, chatted with her and later ended up as an example of a hard-working single mom in Clinton's stump speech. She told NPR she's considering voting for Clinton, but was disappointed the senator and her staff didn't make sure she got a tip for her labor.

The tip issue was a small part of an eight-minute piece about how everyday people get caught up in political campaigns. Half the story was about an incident in which another presidential candidate, Barack Obama, failed to follow up on a letter he said he might send to a supporter he met at a rally. The Obama campaign Thursday said they fired off a letter to the supporter after the story aired. But that part of the story received little mention in the blogosphere after airing Thursday.

""By the Democrats (and Independents and Republicans) who see in Obama the person we need to break this agonizing way of being governed that we have to endure."

Who don't stop and consider....is the other side just going to cooperate as Barack proposes National Health Care???? Or any other part of a Democratic agenda. Hello???? Don't you guys realize that the partisanship is a natural part of a democracy, it won't go away ever under any president. Hell, in the 1800's there were fist fights in Congress.

Just be careful who you worship.

You can say that again. When did I ever suggest anything like that?

I am and have been for Obama for months because he is the better candidate, and I don't trust either Clinton at this point, and they have clearly demonstrated that I am right.

Oh gee, Hillary forgot to leave a tip....I think I'll vote for Obama.
Why does anyone waste their time even posting such crap?????
Why would you pollute your brain reading such crap???
Hillary Haters are becoming pathological at the thought of her being president.

"Sarge, if that type of attack is typical of the basis for your irrational hatred of Hillary Clinton....then it does make me realize why I support her. That was disgusting. I quit listening when the asshole says "her so-called husband Bill Clinton." What utter crap. I used to think you were smarter than that."

No by no means do I support that Ass Clown !!!

He is one of those JTF Crackpots !!! While I support Israel I do not support guys like that. I was just using him a Point on how even the JTF is against H.Clinton, they are against Obama and Edwards also.

-Sarge

Oh yeah, Tax, that was clever.

Tell me, which was it you hated most about the 90's, the peace or the prosperity?

NAFTA and GAAT led to some real American prosperity didn't they Corky.

"No by no means do I support that Ass Clown !!!"

Whew, I'm relieved.
I was concerned about your mental health there for a minute.

GATT not GAAT

Tell me, which was it you hated most about the 90's, the peace or the prosperity? corkintheass

Neither of which was a result of Clinton's policies.

Health insurance MANDATORY. North American Union. Special Interest Legislation. Etc.

NO THANKS

To put it bluntly Corky, Bubba's sign off on NAFTA and GATT, literally slashed the economic throat of the United States. The U.S. has been hemorrhaging jobs to foreign nations like Communist China ever since.

To put it bluntly, Taxation, Clinton didn't get all the human rights and wage items that those bills needed, but playing ostrich in today's world is a good way to get your ass blown off.

-
Social Security MANDATORY.... lmao!

Black helicopters! I see black helicopters!! Help me, help me!!

human rights and wage items that those bills needed

That wouldn't have stopped the outflow of American jobs to China and other countries.

Black helicopters! I see black helicopters!! Help me, help me!!

Corky- Hillary is sending them for you cos you want her to run with Obama.

Hillary Clinton Laughs About NAFTA

Talk about playing ostrich.

Tell me Danni, did HRC back the same expansion? Edwards was the most vocal against the expansion.

WON'T GET FOOLED AGAIN LYRICS

Won't Get Fooled Again Lyrics
Artist(Band):The Who Review The Song (45) Print the Lyrics

We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgement of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again

The change, it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the foe, that' all
And the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they all flown in the last war

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
No, no!

I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
For I know that the hypnotized never lie

Do ya?

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

There's nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now the parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAH!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

Give credit where credit is due - Chris Dodd, Joe Biden, John Edwards and Dennis Kucinich have all refused to equivocate on this issue coming down the pike. They have all said they strongly oppose the Peru Free Trade Agreement. They realize in the era following the "for it, before I was against" it fiasco, you should probably straight-shoot voters by telling them whether you are for it or against it - for trade policies that crush the middle-class, or against them. And trying to pretend to be both is just silly.

P.S. Danni, when I brought up NAFTA and GATT I was addressing Corky's point that Bill led us into prosperity. Bill, like Obama is not God. Moreover, I am at least willing to state when I have a differing opinion with the candidate I am backing. I did so with Obama's position on tax rebates and on his position with extending NAFTA into Peru.

That's reasonable Taxman. I only posted that little thing about Barack Obama and the NAFTA extension was to demonstrate the he and Clinton really don't differ on very many issues. There are legitimate reasons to choose Obama over Clinton and there are legitimate ones to choose Clinton. I am just a bit tired of the irrational hatred for Hillary and worship for Obama. One thing I fear is that when and if Obama gets the nod is that he is really not prepared for what is going to hit him. I don't know if anyone is really but the Clintons have the most "experience" dealing with the Republican Attack Machine.

"is the other side just going to cooperate as Barack proposes National Health Care???? Or any other part of a Democratic agenda. Hello???? Don't you guys realize that the partisanship is a natural part of a democracy, it won't go away ever under any president."

Danni-

It doesn't matter to independents or republicans how much of the "democratic agenda" gets passed. We want less foreign spending AND less domestic spending. Not either/or. Obama can be a leader everyone can respect when it matters most. After the Clinton/Bush years, I think we need a "cooling off" period for the rhetoric.Even if the policy divisions are still complex and almost stifling. Government was meant to be slow and steady...not reactive.

"One thing I fear is that when and if Obama gets the nod is that he is really not prepared for what is going to hit him. I don't know if anyone is really but the Clintons have the most "experience" dealing with the Republican Attack Machine."

This reasoning is exactly what scares me. The only way to "deal with" what is coming is to fight fire with fire?

Rogue:

""Notice that now he's "black", not mixed-race, with no mention or sight of his white grandmother, Madelyn Dunham."

Incorrect."

Link, please?

Obama Hearts Rumsfield


"Another misleading headline from Corky."

Posted by taxman at 2008-01-30 04:04 PM | Reply | Flag

-Sarge

"Obama Hearts Rumsfield"
--CORKY

Right on, Corky! Tell it like it is!

(according to the Corky political doctrine, you now aid and abet Republicans!)

"It doesn't matter to independents or republicans how much of the "democratic agenda" gets passed. We want less foreign spending AND less domestic spending.

You speak as if independents are all the same and want the same things. Just not true. If Republicans are voting for Obama then they know they are voting for his agenda. They are voting against the Republican status quo which we have been stuck in since 2000 and really 1994. It isn't as if government is rushing to create national health care since it was being discussed by Hillary Clinton back in 1993. It is just more important now and has built enough of a majority to be possible now. You seem to want a Libertarian, clue....that ain't Barack Obama.

Danni, I can understand your "experience" argument, but I don't think that experience transforms into today's economy and global outlook. That's just my opinion. I think we need someone who is going to bring us together and change how the world views us. I think Obama is more capable of that than Hillary.

I will say that up until a few weeks ago I was willing to hold my nose and vote for Hillary, but after seeing Corky's posts every day and what the Clintons have been doing, I don't know if I can do it anymore. It is really upsetting that one candidate (or her husband) can turn people off like that.

Danni-

"If Republicans are voting for Obama then they know they are voting for his agenda."

Untrue. There could be a million reasons.

"They are voting against the Republican status quo which we have been stuck in since 2000 and really 1994."

That's one possible reason.

"It isn't as if government is rushing to create national health care since it was being discussed by Hillary Clinton back in 1993. It is just more important now and has built enough of a majority to be possible now."

Because the people didn't want it in 1993. They just wanted meaningful regulation...an un-enforced rule isn't necessarily a bad one. Instead they got policy hand written by the industries themselves. Clinton is their champion. It was easy to tear her plan apart back then, and it'll be easy again. Obama will meet similar resistance. People just dont like the foxes watching the hen-house on their dollar.

"You seem to want a Libertarian, clue....that ain't Barack Obama."

You got that right. Kudos. I could still imagine Obama as president. Says a lot doesn't it?

Danni, I can understand your "experience" argument

That Dog Does Not Hunt With Me !!

Please Just Because You Fly As A Passenger On A Plane Does Not Make You A Pilot !!

She Has Less Time As An Elected Official Than Obama.

She Only Has 4 More Years As A Senator She Never Even Had A Classified Security Clearance When She Lived In The White House As A Wife.

-Sarge

Let's be clear. If you're a Democrat, experience isn't on this year's menu.

Why should they need experience? They can campaign on sexism or racism. It they choose to be running mates that is ALL they will have to run on.

All the republicans have to run on is a platform of economic failure and death.

There are legitimate reasons to choose Obama over Clinton
Just a few obvious ones to start with:

1. FBI files illegally in her possession while she was 'elected' first lady.
2. Convictions of many close associates while Bill and her were in Ark including Gov of Ark and Hubbel, former associate attorney general; he was generally considered the third most powerful person in the Justice Department.
3. Claims no knowledge of Rose law firm billing records, yet 18 months later they appear in her living quarters and establish her relationship with the Madison Guaranty company.
4. Held secret meetings on health care 'reform' while she was 'elected' first lady. Same approach the leftist wail about Cheney and energy policy meetings.

Reasons Hillary will win
1.Women vote.
2.Women who want the government to be their sugar daddy.

www.uncorrelated.com

Homely is being kind. But then if you want to be unhappy for the rest of your life, make a pretty woman your wife. Though from my personal point of view, it can be worse if you marry a shrew.

Obama/Edwards '08!

All the republicans have to run on is a platform of economic failure and death.

Posted by byrdman

And that is exactly why McModerate will win. Chew on that awhile.

You want a chef in the kitchen and a slut in the bedroom. Admit it. (Not that there is anything wrong with that :D)