The USA does not torture



as much as we used to.

i bet if wiskey was being poured down his throat...nobody would be complaining

SO????

The United States used waterboarding in terrorism interrogations but no longer does

Great work libs... now we're back to asking "pretty please" for information... well done. Can't wait to see the Hussein Obama interrogation approach. "Alright fine, you can have access to the nukes, but you have to tell us where you buy your shoes."

Great work libs... now we're back to asking "pretty please" for information.

< sarc >
Brilliant!
< / sarc >

Whoa... good thing you put the Sarcasm tags in there...

Torture is scummy. Torturers are scum.

Is this news? How many fucking times do we need to admit we do and have waterboarded? Yet everytime some dumbfuck from the admin or formerly tied to the admin panders to you stupid shits you come out touting it like it's news.

Listen up limp wrists...We waterboard. We have waterboarded in the past. We will waterboard in the future. Why? Because it works.
When some tool comes out of the woodwork to confirm or deny it's use just realize that they have an agenda (book to sell). In a couple of weeks some general or former cia guy will claim we waterboarded somebody in 2007 and you clowns will jump up and down in mock outrage and disgust like it's Groundhog Day.

You guys are such simple sallies.

Torture is scummy. Torturers are scum.

Posted by Zed at 2008-01-29 09:47 AM | Reply


Go back and play with your dolls little girl and keep telling yourself boys are icky.

The classic loaded question for a politician used to be "When did you stop beating your wife?". Bush has replaced it with "When did you stop torturing your prisoners?".

Can I play with your Ken doll, Chairborne?

Can I play with your Ken doll, Chairborne?



he has it hooked to a car battery in barbie's abu graib prison

Why is it so hard for yoy right wing constitution haters to respect the law of the land?

Buy the boxed set of "24" and a Jack Bauer blowup doll and have yourselves a nice little torture party.

The operative phrase here is "defend the constitution against all enemies, both foreign and domestic"

You ass hats are the domestic enemies they are talking about. But I still wont support torturing you.
Cause it's against the law.

"he has it hooked to a car battery in barbie's abu graib prison"

FF for Truth!

And, Judas, I never touch whiskey, but I'm not so sure you havn't betrayed Jesus.

The United States used waterboarding in terrorism interrogations but no longer does

Great work libs... now we're back to asking "pretty please" for information... well done. Can't wait to see the Hussein Obama interrogation approach. "Alright fine, you can have access to the nukes, but you have to tell us where you buy your shoes."

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole


Nice try, A-hole. That's a pathetic response - you usually can do better, but this time the material you have to work this is shit.

If Bush authorized it, he's a war criminal. What kind of treatment do war criminals deserve?

so what.

do you want another 3,000 dead on our soil or do you want to waterboard the enemy.

life ain't always pretty.

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

"do you want another 3,000 dead on our soil or do you want to waterboard the enemy."

Ding ding ding! False choice of the day award.

Yes, it's the right wing that tortures. Before the governement (right wing governments only, not any democratic ones) hires any "torturers" they ask them for their Voter Registration Card (but blacks think it's alienating them) to ensure that the only torturers are right wing constitution haters.

Once again, we see the complete disconnect of the leftwing loons that believe George Bush invented torture. In their simpleminded world torture was never practiced or even on the radar of any Democrat President ever. Which would further my theopry that Democrats are retards that aren't aware of what is happening in their administrations because they are too busy chasing helpless interns and movie stars around (no, I don't believe that, but it's just as assinine as the dumbshit theory that torture is the domain of the right wing).

I don't have a Ken Doll, but if I did I wouldn't use a car battery to torture him. I'd use rendition and send him to troofie's house where Ken would be stripped naked, fondled, and then stuck in his anus. I call that torture, he calls that "Saturday".

we should not only waterboard, but use any method availble to obtain information.

"YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!"

The truth is your scared.

so scared that you have to resort to torture as an exceptable method though outlawed almost 60 years ago.

oh yea, of course, how could i forget. All the geneva convention drafters of 1949 were sallies.

Go ahead and enjoy your Starbucks Latte, drive your gas guzzling SUV and rub elbows with Junior's parents at the soccer game.

GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS. they have to protect the self righteous idiots that make up the American landscape.

Acknad can't help that he is a terrorist. He has feelings and a family. Just because he has a bomb strapped to his chest doesn't necessarily mean he is a bad person, he is just misunderstood...

what if acknad isn't a terrorist and is an american citizen to boot

but was mistaken for acknad the evil...

tortured for no reason

and in his torture and delusions stated some bullshit information about some attack that really isn't happening

but in his fear for his life
said anything to stop the torturing.

oh yea
its ok cause you can handle the truth

I say kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out!
- auntiesocial

"Just because he has a bomb strapped to his chest doesn't necessarily mean he is a bad person, he is just misunderstood..."

"self righteous idiots that make up the American landscape"

sounds like you

CONGRATULATIONS! your job application has been approved at the ACLU!

your example sucks, too!

Let's say we torture someone to the point they "give up information".

Then, as often happens, that information turns out to be false.

What's your conclusion? He never knew in the first place?

...Or we just haven't tortured enough to get to the truth?

"your job application has been approved at the ACLU!"

hey lets get rid of all our social structures and go back in time when slavery was legal and burning witches is awesome!

hey why keep fighting the war on terrorism?

they just want to take us back to the middle ages.

thats what we want.

bring back the iron maiden!

Let's say we torture someone to the point they "give up information".

Then, as often happens, that information turns out to be false.

What's your conclusion? He never knew in the first place?

...Or we just haven't tortured enough to get to the truth?

Posted by Danforth


A serious question will never evoke a thoughful response from the cretins here who support the use of torture. Maybe if we torture them ....

Let's say we torture someone to the point they "give up information".

Then, as often happens, that information turns out to be false.

What's your conclusion? He never knew in the first place?

...Or we just haven't tortured enough to get to the truth?

Posted by Danforth


Could be either based on the situation.

"Could be either based on the situation."

Exactly. What do YOU decide?

Or, what do you decide is policy in those situations, General Eberly?

For example, how many times should we repeat the torture to an end of more false info (intensifying it each time of course) before we admit the guy never knew anything to begin with?

Let's say the fellow dies during torture without saying much or anything. Do we then conclude he was innocent, or that we were negligent in not keeping him alive longer so that he could suffer more?

Now, if we decide he actually knew nothing, what duty do we then owe to his widow and orphans? Or is it all just as much their bad luck as his that we screwed up?

The number of people that don't understand sadism when they see it astounds me.

So you been to school
For a year or two
And you know you've seen it all
In daddy's car
Thinkin' you'll go far
Back east your type don't crawl

Play ethnicky jazz
To parade your snazz
On your five grand stereo
Braggin that you know
How the niggers feel cold
And the slums got so much soul

It's time to taste what you most fear
Right Guard will not help you here
Brace yourself, my dear...

It's a holiday in Cambodia
It's tough, kid, but it's life
It's a holiday in Cambodia
Don't forget to pack a wife

You're a star-belly sneech
You suck like a leach
You want everyone to act like you
Kiss ass while you bitch
So you can get rich
But your boss gets richer off you

Well you'll work harder
With a gun in your back
For a bowl of rice a day
Slave for soldiers
Till you starve
Then your head is skewered on a stake

Now you can go where people are one
Now you can go where they get things done
What you need, my son......

Is a holiday in Cambodia
Where people dress in black
A holiday in Cambodia
Where you'll kiss ass or crack

Pol Pot Pol Pot Pol Pot Pol Pot etc....

Where you'll do what you're told
A holiday in Cambodia
Where the slums got so much soul

A serious question will never evoke a thoughful response from the cretins here who support the use of torture. Maybe if we torture them ....

Posted by midiman at 2008-01-29 11:12 AM | Reply


Do you always consider hypotheticals to be serious questions? If find them to be fucking stupid.

Ruling out any method or technique for any reason is also stupid. It's not as if people that are aware that waterboarding has it's uses and place in our arsenal want it to be used at every opportunity (the fact somebody needs to tell you puds that is in itself amazing...but who ever accused you dumbshits of having perspective?).

"Ruling out any method or technique for any reason...."

Let's say it aborts a fetus. In or out?

The question wasn't really hypothetical, 101. The vast majority of the prisoners in Abu Ghraib were ultimately found not to have committed any actual crimes and released.

Let's say it aborts a fetus. In or out?

Posted by Zed at 2008-01-29 11:51 AM | Reply


Let's just say you're a crazy son of a gun and move on.

SanAn,
Seeing as though you, midi, danforth or I have no idea who is waterboarded, tortured, or treated to a cup of tea, and who is not, the question is a hypothetical.

For all we know waterboarding has a 90% success rate. For all we know 1 in 10 are waterboarded.

Don't you people realize that our Jewish friends get the info they want for us from these prisoners and no one asks questions? For them, waterboarding is like having tea and crumpets compared to the tactics they use.

"no idea who is waterboarded"

That's like saying because we don't know who exactly is being spied on, the question of should we spy without a warrant is a hypothetical. The fact is it's happening, or it happened. It was torture when employed in the Spanish Inquisition, when used by the Gestapo, when used by Pol Pot, and, for Japanese in WWII, it meant conviction on torture and jail time.

What date, exactly, did waterboarding cease to be torture? It's not an unreasonable question.

I always thought that we here in U.S.A. were above things like torture. We are better than that. We are supposed to be the shining light of freedom and decency in this world. Too bad we are not and never have been. If we could only live up to our myth we could truly do great things.

Think about it.

Let's get one thing straight. During Iran-Contra Negroponte either ran or gave cover to the Death Squads out of Honduras where he subsequently was made persona non grata.

Put a mouse in a cage with a cat and you'll witness a greater morality than this freak exhibits.

He was sent to Iraq to provide cover for the abuses at Abu Gharib.

Given the reference to the Israeli methods of interrogation, I wonder what tales he'd tell if he were cath'd and two quarts saline pumped into his bladder.

If you wonder why our foreign policy is criticized, just remember that his title is Ambassador.

If we stop waterboarding, the terrorists will be running rampant in our streets, threatening good Republicans everywhere. 101 and Rob will no longer have to choose whether to hide under the bed everyday, or in the closet, as they will move their bed (yes, bed, in the singular) into the closet.

These right-wingers justifying torture probably also consider themselved patriots, defenders of the Constitution, and supporters of law and order. I bet that most of them would have booed the Nazis at Nrnberg, too.

they just want to take us back to the middle ages.


Otherwise known to Muslims as 2008

I bet that most of them would have booed the Nazis at Nrnberg, too.


Posted by midiman


Godwin's Law is alive and well here today...

"If Bush authorized it, he's a war criminal. What kind of treatment do war criminals deserve?"

Um....the Medal of Freedom?

I mean, based on this administration's behavior to date....

101, if we torture, waterboard, or do anything at our disposal to get info are we still the 'good guys'?

If so, what makes us the 'good guys'?

I always thought that we here in U.S.A. were above things like torture. We are better than that. We are supposed to be the shining light of freedom and decency in this world. Too bad we are not and never have been. If we could only live up to our myth we could truly do great things.

Think about it.

Posted by Salaryman at 2008-01-29 12:38 PM | Reply


What a dumb rube. Talk about swallowing rhetoric hook line and sinker.

101, if we torture, waterboard, or do anything at our disposal to get info are we still the 'good guys'?

If so, what makes us the 'good guys'?

Posted by bigjohn_1972 at 2008-01-29 01:01 PM | Reply | Flag


Were we good guys in 1940? How about 1950? How about from 1776 through 1/29/08?

It's as if you silly fuckers have forgotten everything before W.

You clowns realize that nobody falls for your act right? Hasn't anyone whispered that tidbit to you yet?

" torture and waterboarding are not products invented by the USA in 2000."

You're absolutely right. But as recently as WWII, the USA prosecuted Japanese, convicted them, and jailed them based on torturing US GIs, and waterboarding was clearly torture.

Again, what date, exactly, did waterboarding cease to be torture?

And again, it's not an unreasonable question.

This Administration, will face this drip, drip, drip for years until the truth be told. This Administration has committed criminal offenses an to think that the Democrats in the House of Representatives have refused to even start the process to see if there is a criminal offense committed by this Administration. Clearly even to a blind man there is enough here to bring these folks to trial for IMPEACHMENT.

Is the President Guilty, that is what the trial is about, he may not be but should he not stand trial to find out? If no trial than the Impeachment clause of the Constitution should be removed because if it is not used now what would the next President need to do to get Impeached.

It clear to me that the Right Wing Conservatives in this Country think that a BLOWJOB is worst than TORTURE. You are a bunch of sick Bastards...GOD CAN JANUARY 20, 2009 GET HERE SOON ENOUGH!!!!

Who would have guessed that that nutjob Celisary could go one post without mentioning Fox News.

Well at least we got the over-used "ALL-CAPS" to show us how serious she is yet once again.

Maybe you and AmericanUnity can get together and pretend to be outraged at everything together? Clearly you're both lonely old codgers.

You're absolutely right. But as recently as WWII, the USA prosecuted Japanese, convicted them, and jailed them based on torturing US GIs, and waterboarding was clearly torture.

Again, what date, exactly, did waterboarding cease to be torture?

And again, it's not an unreasonable question.

Posted by Danforth at 2008-01-29 01:21 PM | Reply


Do you agree that many of the posters here from left of center act or imply as if waterboarding and torture didn't take place before the year 2000?

Do you believe that waterboarding and torture were used during a democrat's admin?

What date exactly did you start asking questions that you knew nobody has an answer to? So yes, it is an unreasonable question.

In regards to the Japs...How many Japs were jailed or executred for waterboarding alone? How many were murderers and sadists that also happened to waterboard? In other words, how many japs were sent to jail or executed for waterboarding as their only offense?

"nanc, izzies use beheadings"

we're almost even.

Godwin's Law is alive and well here today...

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole



Nice attempt ... on the road to reductio ad Hitlerum, why don't YOU tell US how much torture is acceptable, and when we would cross the line?

Would the Japanese example be better? Still waiting for a "law" on that, I guess.

Are we against torture, or is it just a matter of degree for you?

"101CHAIRBORNE"...ASShole, what about I wrote can you say is not true. You fucking dicks are good at calling names but you just refuse to look at the facts. I have never allowed you fucks to define me an I am not going to start now. IMPEACH THE BASTARDS. FUCK YOU AND FOX NEWS!!!!!

Posted by celisary at 2008-01-29 01:47 PM | Reply


I'll bet you talk while you type. We already know you yell at the TV and argue with the Fox News personalities.

Speaking of personalities, how many do you have (that you are aware of)?

Listen little lady, you're not going to get anywhere with the hysterics.
Take your head out of your ass and realize that torture and waterboarding are not products invented by the USA in 2000. Your mock outrage is as transparent as your sexual preference.

Posted by 101Chairborne


First of all, I prefer not be part of your sexual thoughts, at any level, in spite of your interest.

You relate my objection to torture to sexual orientation? Geez you must be one sick pup. But that doesn't make you a bad person.

Never said we invented torture, gomer, just that we should be above using it. Hope that helps you udnerstand the issue a bit better.

"Do you agree that many of the posters here from left of center act or imply as if waterboarding and torture didn't take place before the year 2000?"

That has nothing to do with whether waterboarding is torture or not.

"Do you believe that waterboarding and torture were used during a democrat's admin?"

Sure. And if we supported the laws defining it as torture, yet engaged in torture, it's a war crime, regardless to which party the perpetrator belongs.

"What date exactly did you start asking questions that you knew nobody has an answer to? So yes, it is an unreasonable question."

Bullshit. It's not a question "nobody has an answer to", it's a question those in favor of waterboarding won't answer, because answering it truthfully would force them to admit war crimes occurred.

"In regards to the Japs...How many Japs were jailed or executred for waterboarding alone? How many were murderers and sadists that also happened to waterboard? In other words, how many japs were sent to jail or executed for waterboarding as their only offense?"

Deflections, all. One of the "crimes" considered "torture" at the trial of those Japanese was waterboarding. It was a war crime at the end of WWII. How is it not a war crime today, i.e., what exact date did it cease to be torture? It's only an unreasonable question to unreasonable people.

101 is trolling for responses...a real right winger he is not. Nor rob... theres no point to this discussion.

We need goatman back.

Chair101 and the other pro-torture guys have a wonderful child-like simplicity to their arguments. "They did it, too", and "He did it first", etc., in order to make our own actions seem less onerous. We can only control our OWN behavior, of course, and the fact that we preach one thing and do another is of course nothing that bothers them in the least.

I wonder if they accept these same excuses, deflections, and rationalizations from their own kids.

Finally the Rethugs admit that Americans have waterboarded prisoners as authorized by Bush, they have largely moved on from denying that it is toture too. Now their defense is that totalitarian regimes abroad have done it as well as previous presidents here, both Democrat and Republican, so that makes it OK. Well it doesn't. Clinton authorizing rendition to torture regimes is just as guilty as Bush even if Bush has taken it a good deal further.

Three quotes from Bush. You need buckets of Koolaid to help you swallow these.

"Torture is wrong no matter where it occurs, and the United States will continue to lead the fight to eliminate it everywhere."

"The United States is committed to the world-wide elimination of torture and we are leading this fight by example."

"As I've said before, the United States does not torture. It's against our laws and it's against our values."

Danforth,
Those questions I asked are necessary so that I can see what your frame of mind is. I'm not going argue or debate some whackjob that believes the Republicans brought torture to the world circa 2000 and that the Dems or any other admin have never engaged in such practices.

I do not believe waterboarding is "torture". It's my belief that torture isn't simply discomfort or a mental trick.

The fact that the victors of WW2 added on charges of waterboarding (on to Japs that had mutilated and killed GI's) is no different than the cops or FBI getting the mob on tax evasion.

There isn't a date that we quit waterboarding because it's my belief that we never stopped. I'm more than sure any person with 2 brain cells is aware of that, including you. So for the umpteenth time, the question is stupid and pointless.

Finally the Rethugs admit that Americans have waterboarded prisoners as authorized by Bush
posted by Retardinblueland

Where in the fuck have you been? Anyone and everyone are aware we have waterboarded people in the past decade.
Khalid Sheik Mohammed ring a bell stupid?

Retired Air Force Col. John Rothrock, who, as a young captain, headed a combat interrogation team in Vietnam. More than once he was faced with a ticking time-bomb scenario: a captured Vietcong guerrilla who knew of plans to kill Americans. What was done in such cases was "not nice," he says. "But we did not physically abuse them." Rothrock used psychology, the shock of capture and of the unexpected. Once, he let a prisoner see a wounded comrade die.

Yet -- as he remembers saying to the "desperate and honorable officers" who wanted him to move faster -- "if I take a Bunsen burner to the guy's genitals, he's going to tell you just about anything," which would be pointless. Rothrock, who is no squishy liberal, says that he doesn't know "any professional intelligence officers of my generation who would think this is a good idea

Army Col. Stuart Herrington, a military intelligence specialist who conducted interrogations in Vietnam, Panama and Iraq during Desert Storm, and who was sent by the Pentagon in 2003 -- long before Abu Ghraib -- to assess interrogations in Iraq. Aside from its immorality and its illegality, says Herrington, torture is simply "not a good way to get information."

In his experience, nine out of 10 people can be persuaded to talk with no "stress methods" at all, let alone cruel and unusual ones. Asked whether that would be true of religiously motivated fanatics, he says that the "batting average" might be lower: "perhaps six out of ten." And if you beat up the remaining four? "They'll just tell you anything to get you to stop."

Worse, you'll have the other side effects of torture. It "endangers our soldiers on the battlefield by encouraging reciprocity." It does "damage to our country's image" and undermines our credibility in Iraq. That, in the long run, outweighs any theoretical benefit. Herrington's confidential Pentagon report, which he won't discuss but which was leaked to The Post a month ago, goes farther. In that document, he warned that members of an elite military and CIA task force were abusing detainees in Iraq, that their activities could be "making gratuitous enemies" and that prisoner abuse "is counterproductive to the Coalition's efforts to win the cooperation of the Iraqi citizenry." Far from rescuing Americans, in other words, the use of "special methods" might help explain why the war is going so badly.

An up-to-date illustration of the colonel's point appeared in recently released FBI documents from the naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. These show, among other things, that some military intelligence officers wanted to use harsher interrogation methods than the FBI did. As a result, complained one inspector, "every time the FBI established a rapport with a detainee, the military would step in and the detainee would stop being cooperative." So much for the utility of torture.

Wow, he let a guy see his comrade die and you think that's the example to set? Who dies from waterboarding?

SanAn,
As I said, its not the first choice for anyone I know, but it isn't off the table either.

Khalid Sheik Mohammed must be an exception huh?

Negroponte, Ollie North partner in the desimation of poor human beings in Central America for United Fruit etc. Anyone with an interest in human rights, the principals apon which this country was founded, was a target, Nuns, Priests, Socialists, Union Organizers. They killed 'em all, still do, especially in Columbia or any country with a substantial extraction industry, like Congo or Iraq.

glad to see waterbrothering is out of favor until the election season is over....is nuking Iran out of flavor, too?:>)

"waterbrothering"

Grok

Khalid Sheik Mohammed ring a bell stupid?

It does indeed ring a bell ... stupid.

Khalid claims to have killed Daniel Pearl. The problem is someone else was arrested and sentenced to death for that crime.

Khalid could claim to have killed Jesus... he had nothing to lose.

Special Agent Randall Bennett, the head of security for the U.S. consulate in Karachi when Pearl was killed--and whose lead role investigating the murder was featured in the recent film "A Mighty Heart"--said that he has interviewed all the convicted accomplices who are now in custody in Pakistan, and that none of them named Mohammed as playing a role. "K.S.M.'s name never came up," he said. Robert Baer, a former C.I.A. officer, said, "My old colleagues say with one-hundred-per-cent certainty that it was not K.S.M. who killed Pearl." A government official involved in the case said, "The fear is that K.S.M. is covering up for others, and that these people will be released." And Judea Pearl, Daniel's father, said, "Something is fishy. There are a lot of unanswered questions. K.S.M. can say he killed Jesus--he has nothing to lose."

Mariane Pearl, who is relying on the Bush Administration to bring justice in her husband's case, spoke carefully about the investigation. "You need a procedure that will get the truth," she said. "An intelligence agency is not supposed to be above the law."

the case is very complicated made more so by torture.

perhaps you should read it ... stupid.

rear admiral

"I get concerned that we're too retrospective and tend to look in the rearview mirror too often at things that happened four or even six years ago."
-John Negroponte, January 2007

What an absolutely astonishing thing to say.

Six years ago being January 2002
Four years ago being January 2004

Absolutely mind-boggling. This is our GOVERNMENT!