On Monday, some 60 people were injured at a demonstration at the Rafah crossing as the crowd tried to break through the border gate, and Egyptian border guards used water cannons against them.

At one point shots were fired, and while it is unclear who started opened fire first, Egyptian guards did shoot at the demonstrators. Some Palestinian gunmen were also visible in the crowds.

......maybe the Gazans could rocket the Egyptians for a change......

.......and have the Egyptians give Israel a good example of how tolerant Arab-Muslims would handle such a situation......

The Israeli government is doing the same thing to the Palestinian people that the Nazi regime did to the Jewish people in the early stages of the final solution. Pushing them in to ghettos, starving them cutting off all supplies. How long until they actively start exterminating them?

It was wrong then and it s wrong now. If any group of people should know that it's the Jewish people.

Why don't these fucking idiots just call for an end to violence and make peace with Israel?

How long are they going to live in extreme poverty and horrible conditions before they realize maybe if they weren't so violent things would get better?

It sucks that Ebola only happens in africa...

***** The Israeli government is doing the same thing to the Palestinian people that the Nazi regime did to the Jewish people in the early stages of the final solution QCP *****

.....I don't recall the German Jews rocketing the Germans.....do you ?

......let's remember why the Gaza walls went up, to protect the Israelis from the suicide bombs/bus bombs/gunfire.......the wall only went up after many suicide & bus bombs......to someone who is independent of the struggle, the wall seems a reasonable way of protecting people .........

......let's remember why the Gaza walls went up, to protect the Israelis from the suicide bombs/bus bombs/gunfire.......the wall only went up after many suicide & bus bombs......to someone who is independent of the struggle, the wall seems a reasonable way of protecting people .........

Posted by skizziks


Yeah, the wall that went down was protecting Israelis...that's why the palestinians flooded into EGYPT!

What happened to this wall has happened to many walls over the years. The Berlin Wall was constantly being circumvented and the Gaza Wall simaller. The wall that will set all records for leaking like it isn't there will be the Border wall with Mexico.

In the areas that have been walled for years, you can watch hundreds climb over or under it daily or even hourly.

The newly built wall being away from heavy population centers will be an excellent dynamite spot. This multi million dollar boondoggle is just one more idiotic action of a pathetic administration. That being due to so little thought. How hard is it to plan the bombing of several places then go out else where?

Mr. President, don't finish this wall.

Oh noes! Israels slave cage is breached? I can't wait for the whiny hand-wringing.

**** Yeah, the wall that went down was protecting Israelis...that's why the palestinians flooded into EGYPT!
Posted by geezer1 ****

........take a look at a map..........Gaza shares borders with Israel and Egypt......

.......the Egyptians put up their walls because they hate the Palestinians.......go figure......

........as I've said before...the only thing the Arabian people hate more than the west & Israel is each other.......

GZ, how many of these Gaza residents spied on the US and sold stolen nuclear weapons technology to al queda's mani supporters, pakistan and saudi arabia?
Less than the number of Israelis, that's for sure.

Still waiting for an apology from you or your boss at the Israeli Embassey.

aren't egyptians technically african :)

and gzlives, skizziks

i say fuck the arabs governments too.

selfish assholes
with no regard to their own countries human lives.

heres my issue... this is why i think the fundamentalist jihadists are gaining power

the local governments suck ass... so they turn to the only ones fighting it... the jihadists

unfortunately the jihadists are just as bad if not worse

and pose a greater threat to the world

what to do... bombing only makes more jihadists
walls make more jihadists
but standing by makes more jihadists too

monitary insentives to the local govt's haven't helped

whats next?

idk

i would love to see a working two state solution form with the hope of an abbas olmert solution.

but i have my doubts on that too from both sides.

aren't egyptians technically african :)

and gzlives, skizziks

i say fuck the arabs governments too.

selfish assholes
with no regard to their own countries human lives.

heres my issue... this is why i think the fundamentalist jihadists are gaining power

the local governments suck ass... so they turn to the only ones fighting it... the jihadists

unfortunately the jihadists are just as bad if not worse

and pose a greater threat to the world

what to do... bombing only makes more jihadists
walls make more jihadists
but standing by makes more jihadists too

monitary insentives to the local govt's haven't helped

whats next?

idk

i would love to see a working two state solution form with the hope of an abbas olmert solution.

but i have my doubts on that too from both sides.

kinda reminds me of the movie Escape from New York.

You can only keep these people walled in and starving for so long it seems.

Go figure.

but it appears that those who are usually interested here at DR in reality care nothing about the Arabs or this issue as it relates to Arabs. Their interest is only in bashing Jews and using any event in the region that involves Israel as an opportunity to publicly Jew bash ...

Posted by GZlives


I agree with you, but I also insist that the US De-involves herself from issues in Israel and stop the funding to Israel and the Arabs.

But, I agree that this is a political fight more than a physical fight between the Arabs and Jews.

I vote that US let them fight it out.

......maybe the Gazans could rocket the Egyptians for a change......

.......and have the Egyptians give Israel a good example of how tolerant Arab-Muslims would handle such a situation......

Posted by skizziks
* * * *

Uh, why is there a wall? Weren't we told about how inhumane it was that the Israelis walled off large chunks of the so-called "Palestinian Authority"? So why the double standard when Egyptians do it?

Maybe it's not just the Israelis who feel it prudent to wall off certain populations, from your own. Seems that way.

The Israeli government is doing the same thing to the Palestinian people that the Nazi regime did to the Jewish people in the early stages of the final solution. Pushing them in to ghettos, starving them cutting off all supplies. How long until they actively start exterminating them?

Posted by qcp

It ain't the same deal buddy. I don't seem to recall reading anywhere that the Jews were fighting the Germans. Did I doze off during that part of history class and miss it?

The Palestinian people have been terrorizing Israel since they formed the country right after WWII.

****but it appears that those who are usually interested here at DR in reality care nothing about the Arabs or this issue as it relates to Arabs. Their interest is only in bashing Jews and using any event in the region that involves Israel as an opportunity to publicly Jew bash ...
GZLives****

.....you are not being fair......

......your opinions and observations are so one-sided that you appear to be nothing more than an apoligist, a shill, for the Israeli side in any issue.......

.......there are two sides to every story......and sometimes the Arab side is the right side........

"The Palestinian people have been terrorizing Israel since they formed the country right after WWII."

And Israel has been terrorizing them right back.

****and gzlives, skizziks
i say fuck the arabs governments too.
selfish assholes
with no regard to their own countries human lives.
Klifferd****

......you are right to a degree.....but I don't know if there is any kind of solution besides very high, impregnable walls to keep Muslims out......

......when Muslims do get a democratic vote, they vote for Hamas, in Egypt The Brotherhood, .......

...... the organizations they vote for, have no regard for the people's welfare......

.......it seems that Muslim cultures have reached a developmental dead end........

........if they don't shed Islam, and adopt the Turkish model, then they are doomed to remain feudal societies.......

arabs are more than likely to be killed by another arab then anyone else-if they can't live with each other why would you expect them to live with the rest of us
jasman

Snippy writes: "It ain't the same deal buddy. I don't seem to recall reading anywhere that the Jews were fighting the Germans. Did I doze off during that part of history class and miss it?"

Perhaps if the European Jews had fought back, the rest of the world would have awakened to what was happening a little sooner and the Nazis would not have slaughtered so many of them. I'd guess a lot of today's Jews are a little jealous of the fighting spirit exhibited by the Pals and heartsick the Jews back in the 1930's had been such wimps.

Hmmm.... Seems Egypt doesn't want to take responsiblity for the people of Gaza, a former piece of Egypt. Maybe they think constantly antagonizing a much more powerful neighbor is stupid too.

And Jordan doesn't seem to want the West Bank either. I wonder why that is. Couldn't be due to the Palestinian compulsion towards idiotic self destruction, could it?

They should flood into occupied Palestine.
Incredible what people will do when they are locked up and sentenced to die a slow death.

It ain't the same deal buddy. I don't seem to recall reading anywhere that the Jews were fighting the Germans. Did I doze off during that part of history class and miss it?

The Palestinian people have been terrorizing Israel since they formed the country right after WWII.


It's exactly the same thing. Down to starving the population and denying of basic human rights.

And there were lots of Jewish partisans in WWII, so I guess you did sleep through that bit of history, or maybe just wasn't convenient for your weak point.

The Israelis stole the land and homes of the Palestinian people, of course they fought back. Wouldn't you?

**** It's exactly the same thing. QCP ****

......you are wrong......the Jews of Europe did not take up arms against Germany until well after the start of the halocaust....and even then it was limited to the Warsaw uprising......

.......you are making this analogy on purpose , but you are not fooling anyone.......

.......if the Gazans would stop the rockets and bombs then the walls would come down, but you know that.........

.......twisting the truth is not the way to get sympathy for an unsympathetic cause.........

.......every-one outside the Arab world thinks the Palestinians are getting just retribution........

........and inside the Arab world they are being used as suckers for pan-Arabic propaganda.......

**** of course they fought back. Wouldn't you?

Posted by qcp ****

.......and when are they going to stop fighting ?...

"The Israelis stole the land and homes of the Palestinian people, of course they fought back. Wouldn't you?"

Actually, they allowed their land to be stolen by Great Britain and the League of Nations/UN. They hardly fought back at all. And Israel didn't exist. The Jews who later became the first Israelis were invited by these entities. In some cases, they even paid for their land. In many other cases, they were simply refugees accepting an invitation from a respected world power operating with international approval. So what I do to people who stole my land doesn't matter. Fact is, the Arabs did nothing to the people who stole it.

Only after GB/UN pulled out - leaving an equally sized Palestine and Israel behind - did the Arabs act. They started a war they should have easily won and got their asses kicked due to incompetence. That was the first time "Israelis" took anything from them and it was a defensive action. They repeated this follly until it became clear that Israelis are much better fighters. Now they resort to killing civilians because it is easy, not because it moves them towards a goal.

I don't think the US should give any money to Israel but that doesn't mean I need to be ignorant to history.

"They should flood into occupied Palestine.
Incredible what people will do when they are locked up and sentenced to die a slow death."

"Occupied Palestine"

Gaza? Occupied Palestine?

There's not a single Israeli dead or alive in Gaza for almost 10 years my friend. You're the victim of a well financed Arab propaganda campaign.
And by the way Gaza is actually Jewish occupied land by these Arabs who arrived a thousand years after the Jews had already been there.

Speaking of "occupation" how about the occupied Jewish homes and property stolen by Arabs after 1948 from a million Jews? Can we please have our land, homes, and property back or does that only go for the Fakestinians?

The only ones sentencing these Fakestinians to a slow death are the leaders they elected. And its so bad that according to the press reports they were buying cigarettes in Rafah ? Sounds like they were really starving ...

Hamas has staged a PR circus and you are obviously part of a very willing audience.

Hamas thanks you as do their sponsors in Tehran. How's it feel to be a dupe HAMDAM

The Israelis stole the land and homes of the Palestinian people, of course they fought back. Wouldn't you?

Posted by qcp


Is that a fact??? The Iseaelies were there long before the time of Christ. I don't think you can sort out who owned the land and when. The middle east has been in turmoil for 5000 years.

What happened 2,000 years ago is irrelevant. Should Americans give their land back to the Indians? Mexico and Spain have claims too.
Fact is, native Palestinians were living there for generations when the UN gave their way land away when it had no legitimate right to do so. The land was taken by force.

That's why the Palestinians call the Israelis occupiers. There's no reason to sympathize with the Israelis. It's their's for as long as they can hold on to it. If they lose it. Tough!

Israel created this mess. If you torment an animal long enough you get bit. Israel will eventually get bit and hard. Israel's days are numbered.

This is obscene!

The world's top 10 military spenders and the approximate amounts each country currently budgets for its military establishment are:

1. United States (FY08 budget), $623 billion
2. China (2004), $65 billion
3. Russia, $50 billion
4. France (2005), $45 billion
5. Japan (2007), $41.75 billion
6. Germany (2003), $35.1 billion
7. Italy (2003), $28.2 billion
8. South Korea (2003), $21.1 billion
9. India (2005 est.), $19 billion
10. Saudi Arabia (2005 est.), $18 billion

World total military expenditures (2004 est.), $1,100 billion
World total (minus the United States), $500 billion

""Going Bankrupt: Why the Debt Crisis Is Now the Greatest Threat to the American Republic" Lew Rockwell"

Lew Rockwell? The notorious racist ghostwriter of the Ron Paul newsletters? LOL.

U.S. Financial Aid To Israel: Figures, Facts, and Impact
Summary

Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid
Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)

Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,000

Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
$9,047,227,200

Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630
Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Aid to Israel

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000

Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200

Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$23,240

The notorious racist ghostwriter of the Ron Paul newsletters? LOL.

Posted by Bill_OReilly at 2008-01-23 10:22 PM

Tar Baby strikes again.

"Going Bankrupt: Why the Debt Crisis Is Now the Greatest Threat to the American Republic"

By Chalmers Johnson

No wonder the Post Office is so incompetent. It must be tough to read anything longer than a street address.

"Tar Baby strikes again."

Is that what Lew Rockwell calls blacks? Tar baby? Figures.

tar baby: tricky situation: a very troublesome situation, especially one that is difficult or impossible to get out of (dated)

[Early 20th century. From the Uncle Remus story Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby by J. C. Harris, after the doll smeared in tar used by Brer Fox to catch Brer Rabbit.]

I have to remember that mailmen have limited vocabularies too.

Like I said yesterday: you stalk me; I don't stalk you. Let's see how your tar baby account accumulates.

"Tar Baby strikes again."

Is that what Lew Rockwell calls blacks? Tar baby? Figures.

Posted by Bill_OReilly


The argument's over when you bring in the "r" word. It invalidates everyone's argument and turns the participants into assholes.

Bill, since you do it over and over, you are the most consistant asshole I've seen on D.R.

Amazing! You want to try and discredit the truth and trying to save the nation by bring up the "r" word.

Why are you so afraid of Ron Paul?

"Like I said yesterday: you stalk me; I don't stalk you"

You're a liar. You are always the first to launch personal attacks against me. Fucking stalker.

"Why are you so afraid of Ron Paul?"

Nobody is afraid of that loon. He hasn't got a chance. But I like annoying the Paultards.

1. United States (FY08 budget), $623 billion
.
.
.


Posted by Ray


Ray, this doesn't include the other expenses needed to support the US Empire, I mean, the very aggresive foreign policy.

GAZANS BLOCK UP TOILET, FLOOD EGYPT FLOOR

Why don't you just stay in your bunker and stick to counting your gold and silver, Ray? That alone would double the IQ of the Drudge Retort.

Eddie
At 10:11, I gave a link that puts the problem in a broader perspective. That was an extract.

"At 10:11, I gave a link that puts the problem in a broader perspective. That was an extract."

Yeah, from Lew Rockwell, the racist and anti-semitic Ron Paul follower.

Ron has no control over who supports him

"Ron has no control over who supports him"

Funny thing, though, that all of the ultra-right extremist groups support him, like Stormfront, the John Birch Society, David Duke, etc. Must be some strange coincidence.

Until he returns the donation from Stormfront, his friends are a legitimate issue.

Ron Paul my ass. This thread is about Gaza not an American super long shot candidate. Spam the Nooner if you have an agenda not on topic.

Implications of Israeli Apartheid System in Occupied Territory:
Economic Devastation and Social Disintegration

On 19 May, the Palestine National Authority (PNA) sounded off alarm bells on Israel's intention to divide the West Bank into eight separate and isolated Bantustants, prohibiting Palestinian civilians from moving from one these isolated area to another unless they are issued special movement permits from the occupation authorities' so-called "Civil Administration".
By mid-May, the Israeli government informed international organization and government representatives that a new closure regime would be enforced in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (with the Israeli government treating Occupied East Jerusalem as part of Israel proper). In defiance of the signed agreements, which oblige Israel to inform and coordinate with the PNA any shifts in procedures related to Palestinians within the Occupied Territory, Israel did not contact the PNA of these objectionable planed procedures, nor did it heed to international calls, such as those issued by the international donor community.

Additionally, Palestinian residents throughout the West Bank have not been informed of this treacherous new procedure. As a result, they will only learn about it once they reach one of the many Israeli roadblocks, where soldiers will turn them back and demand that they obtain a permit.

What Does the Plan Mean on the Ground? Top

The West Bank will be divided into eight separated population centers: Jenin, Nablus, Qalqilia, Tulkarem, Jericho, Ramallah, Bethlehem, and Hebron.

Traffic between these isolated areas will not be allowed:

*

In order for any Palestinian citizen to move from one Bantustant to another, he/she must apply to the Israeli occupation authorities' so-called "Civil Administration" for a special travel permit (which Israel ironically calls freedom-of-movement permits), which will decide who has the right to move from one District to another.
*

The permits do not include East Jerusalem or the Gaza Strip.
*

Permits are only valid from 5:00am - 7:00pm, effectively enforcing a nighttime curfew on the entire West Bank.

*

The permits must be renewed each month, subject to approval.
*

Cars cannot be used to travel from one area and enter another. The Israeli government will enforce a "back-to-back system" where persons and products have to be unloaded in a certain location at the entrance to a Bantustant in order for another car inside it to transport the person or products inside. The Gaza Strip will be divided into four Bantustants, isolated from one another and the rest of the Occupied Territory.

*

Israel will only allow trucks transporting food into the Gaza Strip; all other products and supplies will be denied entry into the Gaza Strip, which depends almost entirely on outside medical and other supplies.

The Palestine National Authority's District Coordination Offices, which according to the Oslo agreements shall be Israel's only contact for procedures related to Palestinian civilians, will not be part of this process. Consequently, Israel is attempting to gradually restore the Israeli military occupation over the entire West Bank, starting with the so-called "Civil Administration", which used to control movement permits prior to the creation of the PNA following the Oslo Accords.

International governmental and non-governmental Organizations such as the International Red Cross, which employ a large number of Palestinian civilians are also obliged to obtain such permits for their Palestinian employees.

International employees, such as UN workers and others, going through the Eretz checkpoint into the Gaza Strip or out will be subject to search, in contravention of all international treaties.


IMPLICATIONS OF THE PLAN ON DAILY LIVES OF PALESTINIANS: Top

HEALTH:

International organizations and representative offices, which have not yet asked for these permits, will be unable to carry out their duties as needed.

Implications:

*

Health Organizations such as the International Red Cross requiring freedom of movement, under international law, for its staff, especially ambulance drivers and medical crews. This new regime will forbid Palestinian ambulance drivers and medical crews from carrying out their duties without having the permit.
*

Any work or emergency medical assistance needed between the Districts past seven in the evening will be impossible for the Palestinian staff. This will effectively paralyze Palestinian health organizations, particularly the Red Crescent and Medical Relief organizations. Consequently, thousands of daily medical emergencies will be unable to reach hospitals on time, if at all. Hundreds of deaths will also occur, as delays in arriving to hospitals for the injured or gravely ill will result in death.

*

Hospitals in the West Bank's northern Districts (Tulkarem, Jenin, and others) are not equipped to receive medical cases in certain specialties and usually transfer the seriously injured or ill to hospitals in Nablus or Ramallah.

EDUCATION: Top

At least one million Palestinian students travel on a daily basis from their villages to nearby cities in order to attend their school.

Tens of thousands of Palestinian teachers travel everyday from their place of residence to their place of work. The Ministry of Education, keeping in line with the PNA's rejection of having any direct dealings with the so-called Civil Administration, has instructed its teachers not to apply for these required permits. (This situation applies to other civil servants who have similar circumstance.)

Implications:

*

School students will be unable to attend their schools, thus disrupting the entire educational system.
*

The current school year, which has been extended to the end of June as a result of the numerous Israeli invasions and reoccupation campaigns against West Bank cities and towns, is now nearing the High School Baccalaureate Exams. Graduating students must make it to examination centers in various locations, which will now become almost impossible to achieve, especially for the male students who constitute a target for Israeli occupation soldiers manning the roadblocks.
*

Teachers, who now spend up to five hours to get to their places of work while risking their lives in the process, will be unable to reach the schools in which they teach.
*

These repercussions will not only disrupt the educational process, it also threatens the quality of education that students will be receiving in school.

Tens of thousands of Palestinian university students attend universities in cities away from home.

IMPLICATIONS:

Students from the Gaza Strip of Nablus city for example who are studying Ramallah's Birzeit University will be either:

1.

Confined to the area of their university and unable to cross a roadblock, lest they be arrested or shipped of to their original place of residence. This would include their denial of the right to visit their families, which has so far only been applicant to Gaza Strip university students studying in the West Bank for the past twenty months.
2.

Quit their university and move back to their original place of residence, thus compromising their higher educational experience and professional opportunities.