Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Tuesday, January 22, 2008

The battle for the Democratic nomination became increasingly bitter last night as frontrunners Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama engaged in the most vicious exchanges yet seen in a televised debate. The two traded personal attacks after a brief discussion of US economic woes. Obama said he had been working in the slums of Chicago while Clinton "was a corporate lawyer sitting on the board of WalMart". Clinton retaliated that Obama had represented a "slum landlord." See the debate video.

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Obama remained cool while Hillary shrieked.

Yep

So much for her promise to stop the smear attacks.

I think it was only three weeks ago that she apologized directly to him for something her campaign said about him and then went on the record to say that she would not be attacking him.

pathetic

Dems Hold Contentious Debate on CNN

Have they ever held any other kind? Hahahah!!Ya gotta love the lefts implosion....they're both asswipes...

Uh, American1st

I happened to watch the last couple of GOP debates. They made tonight look like peace and headbands.

Romney and McCain really got into it. Huckabee playing the Edwards role.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

I watched them,too,AU...the Republicans are at a minimum as bad,for sure...it's simply more humorous to watch the Dems slug it out....

"Politics ain't beanbag."

-- Finley P. Dunne

UHHHH...BTW...I live in a standard,stick-frame home...built it myself,actually,and have close to 2k sq ft,with the entire upstairs yet to be finished,but for the princely sum of less than 20k...so far....

Well, it wasn't as ugly as Romney VS Guiliani(who he? 9-11!) But it was ugly.

Obama said he had been working in the slums of Chicago while Clinton "was a corporate lawyer sitting on the board of WalMart".

Fucking ow.

That was a great line about WalMart. He also said he wasn't sure who he was running against.

All Hillary did was pad her resume and do what lawyers, realtors, and insurance agents do to get their name around: Sit on the board of some not-for-profit and act concerned.



Gee ... imagine that. People who already hate Hillary don't think she did well in the debate. Nothing predictable (and tiresome) about that.

lol

Between Rudi "911" and Hillary "Day 1" I don't which is worse. Hopefully we won't find out.

I was a little surprised Edwards piled on with the "present" vote issue. Expected such from Hillary, but Edwards should have been better informed on the issue.

Hillary was also the only candidate booed for at least one of her nasty questions.

I don't care for Obama's stance on all of the issues, but he can certainly bring out the worst in Hillary. Loved it!

Hillary had him (barak) shook up last night.

Hillary played the Renzko card. lmao, slum lord, lmao.

I live in Ill. and they've got a commercial on with some professor trying to downplay the fact that 80 percent of time Obama doesn't show up to vote. I have to ask myself if it's unimportant 80 percent of the time why do we pay them for 100 percent of the time and why so many?

We could get by with 1/2 of the senate and 1/8 of the house. The reason for so much representation in days gone by was an issue of transportation and communication technology. Those days are past. Reduce the size of this bloated ass beast that is unecessary 80 percent of the time according to the ads being ran to protect Obama's deriliction of duty. Present.

"80 percent of time Obama doesn't show up to vote."

At that rate, he'd still have Ronald Reagan beat by a country mile.

Ronald Regan was a Senator?

Whod'a thought.

Not like he'd remember.

Hillary played the Renzko card. lmao, slum lord, lmao.
Posted by Kris_P_Bacon

That blew me away. My other thought from last night; someone should coach her on body language during these debates.

The obligatory "black man in the room" question: Was Bill Clinton the first black president?

So we get the allowed racial stereotype about "Dancing" to get the uncomfortable white people to chuckle. Then Halfrican American Obama says "brotha" and made even the whitest of white guys blush at his lack of "soul".

Why didn't he answer truthfully and say "Are you fucking kidding me? Black President!?! How in the fuck do you figure that? He simply managed to fool a bunch of dumb blacks that he was "for them" while he was fucking them with welfare reform. They were just too stupid to realize it and their stupidity still stands today if we're still calling him the first black president. Does that answer your fucking question Tim?" and then he should have dropped the mike and walked off.


Why in the fuck aren't I a Dem strategist?

Ugh.. this is looking ugly. If Hillarity gets the nomination, it'll be McCain vs. Herself. And he'll win. I just hope the Dems hold both Houses and we can get back to a normal game of checks and balances among adults...


........stick a fork in Hillary......she's done.........


......every bit as venal...small minded...sleazy, as any corrupt old wind-bag politician.......

I never knew Hillary worked for Wal-Mart...yuck!

In all seriousness though, I hope the dems can now move along from this and the Clintons can curb the lies and innuendos. I think Obama has addressed it once, he did a good job of it, but he can't focus on it. He cannot let this campaign become him focusing on the Clintons' attacks.

I missed this debate and just saw a video excerpt on YouTube with the Wal-Mart and slumlord exchange. Things are really getting scorched earth among the Democrats. We're going to be looking at a lot of people staying home out of dejection when their candidate loses.

80%??? No, he voted "present" 130 times out 4000 votes. So it is more like 3%.

As usual, the media missed the most important message that Obama delivered last night and I hope that both Hillary and John were listening when he delivered it.

One of the chief criticisms of Obama is that his "unity message" won't make the evil Republicans play nice-nice if he wins the presidency. He made the case I made to Danni: His goal is not just to win the White House, its to build a Democratic-led coalition that exceeds 60% by also sweeping out obstructionist Republicans in November too! This cannot be emphasized enough. Further, in my opinion, Obama hasn't framed bringing new voters into the fray as something solely for himself. If Hillary and John were truly wise they'd stop framing their candidacies upon THEIR ambitions and join Barack in making it about the COALITION more than themselves.

To me the greatest development that could occur for the Democratic Party would be for all three to embrace new voters adding energy and new ideas to the Democratic Party. I want to see them fight for leadership of this coalition instead of seeing it as merely a tool to get Obama elected. If its built succeessfully, the coalition is something any of them could use to forward progressive politics in the manner Reagan created his transformative era from a then unlikely grouping of varied interests coming together, which allowed Republicans over 20 years of relative dominance in American politics.


Last night we heard each candidate tell us why they deserve to be POTUS, but I only heard one say that building a working majority was an even more important part of getting the progressive agenda from the idea stage and making it a reality.

We're going to be looking at a lot of people staying home out of dejection when their candidate loses.

I think the Clintons could care less about that.

Another thing I found weird last night is that when asked about Bill, Hillary referred to him as an "asset". She never referred to him as her spouse, just as an "asset" to her campaign. That tells you something.






80%??? No, he voted "present" 130 times out 4000 votes. So it is more like 3%.

Posted by __b__ at 2008-01-22 09:49 AM |


I was referring to his US Senate voting record as of late, which is what the current ad addresses. I should have been more specific as many here don't live in Illinois and probably haven't heard the ad.

In any event, I use voting records to determine what senator I believe is speaking most truthfully. It's to bad more people don't use their computers for more than just chat and political blogs full of disinformation.







obama.senate.gov

I think the Clintons could care less about that.

Maybe. It feels to me that she's running a 50-plus-1-vote campaign.

B--you beat me to the stat on Obama's voting--

And that is over what--7 or 8 years in the Illinois senate?

Kris--who is sponsoring that ad? Some 527 or Hillary or who?


Murphy

"It feels to me that she's running a 50-plus-1-vote campaign."

That's the only option open to her in the house that Rove built.

But I don't like those odds, the floor plan, or the architect

It feels to me that she's running a 50-plus-1-vote campaign.

That's exactly what I have been saying since the Clintons went into vicious attack mode - they have taken a page from the Karl Rove playbook. And like I said to Danni yesterday, it seems to me that her supporters are those who are bitter about Lewinski and the 2000 election (which is totally understandable) and want Clinton, as a means of revenge, to shove their policies down the throats of republicans - partisanship be dammed. Those Obama supporters are those who can see past the bitterness and want to bring as many people to the table as possible and work together to solve our nation's problems. I think that is what Obama is talking about when he says those admirable things about Reagan.

For once I agreed with Edwards when he said that the bikering between Hillary and Obama accomplishes nothing. The looked like little children up there. If my kids were arguing like that they would have each gotten a wack on the butt and sent to their rooms. I have to agree with some who have said that the repubs are not any better. They are all just a pathetic as those who are in congress now. All the bikering, but nothing accomplished.

And they want to talk about change... How pathetic.

The best line in the debate when Edwards asked why Obama would show up to vote in the Senate and then only vote "present" -- what's that all about? He can't make a stand on an issue and vote yes or no?

Why would you over 100 times vote present?" Edwards pointedly challenged Obama. He said he didn't simply refuse to vote on controversial bills in Congress. "It would have been safe for me politically ... but I have a responsibility to take a position even if it costs me politically."


Obama shows up but won't take a stand on his Senate votes?
That to me was the worst piece of info against Obama. Was he looking at running for President and wanted to always play it safe? Not good.

I watched the debates again and they were very interesting this time. Had more chance to really sit and absorb. It might be nice if they let Edwards get a word in once in awhile instead of watching only Hillary vs. Obama.

Obama has a great sense of humor which really showed up when he was asked about Bill Clinton being the first Black President and Obama said he'd have to "investigate Bill's dancing abilities to accurately judge if he [Bill Clinton] was indeed a brother." Obama has great comedy timing.

Will Shillary ruin the Dems chances of election. All this infighting may turn off voters. People will see Hill as a nasty b_itch more than they do now. I'm afraid they will see Mccain as a nice old man and vote for him.

People this Rezko shit is Serious! They are going to start a fedral trial over that piece of shit. Ilegal fundraising, shady land deals and Patrick Fitzgerald is lead prosecuter. Obama WILL be called to testify in this FEDRAL TRAIL. I am eager to see if he does the right thing or tries to cover peoples asses. The Gov, and Obama are guilty as hell of having that scum bag do fundraising for them.

Go-
"Federal", "illegal", etc.

Hillary can't sic hubby Bill on Obama and then when challenged on it by Obama act like she's all indignant saying it "wasn't her" that made the comments, it was her husband Bill Clinton who said them. Hillary could call a halt to Bill's attacking Obama with lies in a nanosecond. She likes her hubby being the attack dog while she tries to look above the fray. Won't work, though.

They are going to start a fedral trial over that piece of shit. Ilegal fundraising, shady land deals

Why is this an issue for Obama? Hasn't one of Hillary's fundraisers already been sent to prison?

"Those Obama supporters are those who can see past the bitterness and want to bring as many people to the table as possible and work together to solve our nation's problems."

Yeah, Clintons couldn't possibly work bipartisanly, I mean, Bill Clinton never worked with Republicans in the Republican controlled Congress during his presidency.
This myth that Obama, and only Obama, can "bring people together" is based on absolutely nothing.
In truth both Clintons have exhibited a very real ability to work with people from both parties and get things done.

So nice to hear from you Kris_P_Bacon... we are breathless to hear your opinions on the Dem candidates.

Be careful, Danni. You might be called a racist soon.


Funny, Obama was able to get away with the sterotype black person with the dance routine. Why I'll bet he could have even gotten away with the N word. Stay tuned, it might just happen soon.

I'm afraid they will see Mccain as a nice old man and vote for him.

If the GOP powers that be put McCain as the nominee -- pay strict attention to the one they pick as his VP. That person will be the one they want for President and then if he wins the Presidency McCain will play the loyal GOP soldier and -- according to plans -- resign as President after not too long a time "due to ill health." Mark my words. All eyes should be on the VP choice if McCain runs as the GOP nominee.

Bill Clinton reached across the aisle because he had no choice, Danni. The Democrats lost Congress on his watch. Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, would likely have a Democratic Senate and House. She also would have survived a vicious general election campaign fueled by 16 years of anti-Clinton venom among a strong chunk of the right. My guess: She only reaches across the aisle with a fist.

Danni, RCADE beat me to it.

As for the "present" votes, I don't think too many people outside of IL actually understand the strategic aspect of the "present" vote and the other candidates either don't understand or are being dishonest.

Regarding Rezko, I can't see how Obama could be called to the stand if he was an attorney involved in the case. Moreover, he wasn't even representing Rezko in the matter.

All of that said, I think Edwards came off looking like a peach last night. The question now is if he will steal votes from Clinton.

Yeah, Clintons couldn't possibly work bipartisanly, I mean, Bill Clinton never worked with Republicans in the Republican controlled Congress during his presidency.
This myth that Obama, and only Obama, can "bring people together" is based on absolutely nothing.
In truth both Clintons have exhibited a very real ability to work with people from both parties and get things done.


The problem is that neither Hillary nor Bill have uttered one single word about building a majority coalition in order to get their policies enacted. It isn't about reaching across the aisle as much as it is energizing those who've stay out of politics because there's been little there for them in the past or those completely torn with the direction of today's GOP. Its about taking these people along with the Party and defeating as many Republicans in November as possible. If I'm not mistaken, there are nearly twice as many GOP Senators up for re-election as there are Democrats. If the Democratic presidential candidate can bring these voters along with the base, the shape of Congress will be more conducive to the progressive agenda.

This is where both Hillary and John miss the chance to actually have a governing majority if they're elected. Obama has always seen this as the key to bringing about the change he's based his campaign on, and not just being a person reaching across the aisle with palm upraised. I just saw someone else say this on another blog, but it fits this discussion to a "t".

"I'd rather have someone willing to build a bridge across the ravine than having someone seeking to throw dynamite into it."

"The best line in the debate when Edwards asked why Obama would show up to vote in the Senate and then only vote "present" -- what's that all about? He can't make a stand on an issue and vote yes or no?"

Chris - he wasn't talking about the US Senate, but rather the Illinois state legislature. Here's some info on what "present" votes, a common political maneuver there, actually means.

"There is a presumption, if one is not familiar with the mechanics of the General Assembly, that a present vote is a "duck." Pam Sutherland, the CEO and President of Illinois Planned Parenthood said of [this] Hull argument: "I think it's not well-based ... I think it's somebody who doesn't understand how the legislative process works." [Chicago Daily Herald, 3/10/04]

"'Criticizing Obama on the basis of 'present' votes indicates you don't have a great understanding of the process,' said Thom Mannard, director of the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence." [Chicago Tribune, Zorn, 3/9/04]

"An aspect of Obama's State Senate voting record that is drawing attention is his "present" votes. A present vote is a third option to an up or down "yes" or "no" that is used with great frequency in the Illinois General Assembly. It has many varied and nuanced meanings that, in the context of the actual bills, border on boring. It's most important use is as a signal to the other party, to the governor, to the sponsor -- to show a willingness to compromise on the issue if not the exact bill, to show disapproval for one aspect of the bill, to question the constitutionality of the bill, to strengthen the bill. [Chicago Daily Herald, 3/10/04]

Clinton is heading out to California, Arizona and New Mexico on Tuesday, but her campaign denied that was a sign of an attempt to diminish expectations, before a defeat in the primary on Saturday.

I can already hear it now, "she wasn't supposed to win S.C." blah, blah, blah - just like the Iowa has never voted a woman into office excuse.

"I was referring to his US Senate voting record as of late, which is what the current ad addresses. I should have been more specific as many here don't live in Illinois and probably haven't heard the ad.

In any event, I use voting records to determine what senator I believe is speaking most truthfully."

Do you have Hillary's recent voting record and %? I couldn't find it on her Senate site.

Anyone see where Hils and John had a heart-to-heart in John's green room last night? I wonder what position in her administration she promised him.

Wait, kris, you're attacking Obama for not taking a stance for bills that have been voted on when he has been busy on the campaign trail?? Seriously? What about McCain, Clinton, etc. during this same time? Would you want someone voting on a bill that they obviously haven't read or done any research on? Are you that thick and partisan?

-She only reaches across the aisle with a fist.

She has sponsored numerous bills with Repubs, most recently Lindsey Graham who helped impeach Bubba, and by all accounts is well respected for her work in the Senate on both sides of the isle.

Obama's response that his association with now indicted slumlord Rezko is about only working 5 hours on a project is going to cause the articles in the Chicago papers to go nationwide now, as that response is ludicrous.

www.youtube.com

www.suntimes.com

www.suntimes.com

She has sponsored numerous bills with Repubs

Meaningful bills?

by all accounts is well respected for her work in the Senate on both sides of the isle.

I haven't heard any republicans praising her lately.

Fact is the Clintons administration will be as partisan as the Bush administration and nothing will get accomplished unless Dems have a super majority (that ain't going to happen).

Moreover, I think Rogers is right, the Clinton campaign has really turned off Obama supporters and I question whether she will be able to get them to come out and vote in the general election.

To show your support for Hillary as President of the United States in 2008, please add your name to the rapidly growing list below and send it on to your entire e-mail list.

1. Bill
2. Chelsea
3. Corky

Last night I was waiting for Barack to look over at Hillary after she hurled an accusation, tip his head, flash his 100-megawatt smile and say, "There you go again...." Would've brought the house down, imo.

As usual, we can count on Corky to be about as honest as his choice in candidates, the Clintons. From his own links, here's the rest of the story:

The letters appear to contradict a statement last December from Obama, who told the Chicago Tribune that, in all the years he's known Rezko, "I've never done any favors for him.''
On Tuesday, Bill Burton, press secretary for Obama's presidential campaign, said the letters Obama wrote in support of the development weren't intended as a favor to Rezko or Davis.

"This wasn't done as a favor for anyone," Burton said in a written statement. "It was done in the interests of the people in the community who have benefited from the project.

"I don't know that anyone specifically asked him to write this letter nine years ago," the statement said. "There was a consensus in the community about the positive impact the project would make and Obama supported it because it was going to help people in his district. . . . They had a wellness clinic and adult day-care services, as well as a series of social services for residents. It's a successful project. It's meant a lot to the community, and he's proud to have supported it.''

The development, called the Cottage View Terrace apartments, opened five years ago at 4801 S. Cottage Grove, providing 97 apartments for low-income senior citizens.

Asked about the Obama letters, Rezko's attorney, Joseph Duffy, said Tuesday, "Mr. Rezko never spoke with, nor sought a letter from, Senator Obama in connection with that project."


www.suntimes.com

Obama's response that his association with now indicted slumlord Rezko is about only working 5 hours on a project is going to cause the articles in the Chicago papers to go nationwide now, as that response is ludicrous.

Except Obama was refering to a singular instance when he was an associate at the law firm and worked on a specific project that Mr. Rezko was involved in. The allegations above are completely different than what he talked about last night, but in Clinton-speak, that obviously doesn't matter. Fancy what Obama allegedly did. He wrote a letter in support. Let's string him up!

""There was a consensus in the community about the positive impact the project would make and Obama supported it because it was going to help people in his district. . . . They had a wellness clinic and adult day-care services, as well as a series of social services for residents. It's a successful project. It's meant a lot to the community, and he's proud to have supported it."

For shame, for shame, a state Senator supporting the poor people of his constituency! Quick, call Mark Penn (Jabba the Hutt) and Howard Wolfson (Dracula)! Let's run this for all its worth!


4. New Hampshire
5. Nevada

Obama got more delegates than Clinton in Nevada.

6. Norman Hsu


It appears Rezko and Davis bought and paid for an employee to become a state legislator, a fairly standard practice, to help them acquire properties for $1 on which they made millions.

That might not be so obvious were it not for the fact that Rezko is now, after a 3 year FBI investigation, under indictment for just such activities, influence peddling and money laundering.

But hey, whatever spin Obama's people put on this story must be true because TR believes everything they say.


7. Zombie Lee Atwater

Lee...

You'd think that bringing up an indicted person by Hillary might be the LAST thing she'd do with the Hsu controversy much fresher in the public's mind, especially since he's now CONVICTED and was responsible for getting Hillary nearly a MILLION DOLLARS in bundled contributions that Hillary has since given back.

But therein lies the difference between the Clintons and Obama: I don't think Obama would stoop so low for the sake of making a "gotcha". I guess they will say about anything in their quest of returning to the White House even if pointing a single finger at Obama negates the fact they've got three more pointed right back at themselves, each much more explosive than Rezko could ever be against Obama.

Tony,


The public is accustomed to the Clinton's being scandalous.

It's happened so much (with little ill effect for some strang reason) that the public is almost innoculated against reacting adversely toward it.


Obama on the other hand is being touted as squeaky-clean, an 'agent of change' (sic), if you will.

It isn't fair, but any hint of impropriety is going to likely have a more adverse affect on him than it does Hillary. People are used to the Clintons' corruption.

It appears Rezko and Davis bought and paid for an employee to become a state legislator, a fairly standard practice, to help them acquire properties for $1 on which they made millions.

That might not be so obvious were it not for the fact that Rezko is now, after a 3 year FBI investigation, under indictment for just such activities, influence peddling and money laundering.


And has anyone in law enforcement tied this to Barack Obama, Corky? Of course not. But how many autographed pictures of Hillary and smilin' swindlin' Norman Hsu does he have stuck on his jail cell walls? He was a Hillraiser, or in Hillary's PRESIDENTIAL inner circle. Was Rezko ever that close to Obama politically?

You've sunk to a new low even for you. You defended Hsu when we told you he stunk to high heaven, and now you can't point to a single thing that puts Obama in a similar light. Has Obama used Hsu to attack Hillary?

I guess it takes a sewer to flush a turd.


Your invective belies the substance of your claims, TR.

The, "But Mommy, little Hillery did it, too!", deflection not only avoids the facts presented in Obama's long relationship with Rezko, but it makes you look rather silly, too.

Try getting you mind out of the sewer and decide what you are going to say when Obama is called to testify in Rezko's case.

Unless you have no comment on the facts of that relationship and just want to make another Clinton Deflection(TM), that is.


It isn't fair, but any hint of impropriety is going to likely have a more adverse affect on him than it does Hillary. People are used to the Clintons' corruption.

You know that I already know this. But I wish Hillary would stop trying to do the GOP oppo-research team's work for them.

What is more obvious, at least to me, is that Obama is what he's presented himself as, namely almost scandal free. I think its impossible to be in politics and to vet every single supporter that jumps on your bandwagon especially if you're successful and win elections.

But notice the difference: Obama blames himself for his association with Rezko. Hillary said her campaign vetted all its supporters, but they must have missed the fact Hsu had OUTSTANDING ARREST WARRANTS, after her California folks vouched for his honesty. Whoops!

Dems Hold Contentious Debate on CNN

Have they ever held any other kind? Hahahah!!Ya gotta love the lefts implosion....they're both asswipes...

Posted by American1st at 2008-01-22 04:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

As soon as the Basset Hound and The Crossdresser realize they're finished and the repubs have two front runners, they'll have the same thing.

Remember John McCains 'illegitimate black love child'? Imagine that, trying to take away from Strom Thurmonds legacy.

"I am writing in support of the New Kenwood LLC's proposal to build a ninety-seven unit apartment building at 48th and Cottage Grove for senior citizens,'' Obama wrote in separate letters, each dated Oct. 28, 1998, to city and state housing officials. "This project will provide much needed housing for Fourth Ward citizens.''

At the time he wrote the letters, Obama was also a lawyer with Miner Barnhill & Galland, the law firm Davis formerly headed. Among the firm's clients were several companies owned by Davis and Rezko. The firm did not represent New Kenwood.

Davis and Rezko hired Daley & George, the law firm of the mayor's brother Michael, to help them get $3.1 million from bonds issued by the city of Chicago.

Rezko and Davis paid the city $1 for the land and spent more than $100,000 to clean it up, including the removal of an underground storage tank. Some tainted land was left behind, but state environmental officials approved construction after Rezko and Davis agreed to cover the polluted areas with parking lots, sidewalks or three feet of dirt, records show.

The $14.6 million Cottage View Terrace was funded entirely by city, state and federal taxpayers.

The project included $855,000 in development fees for New Kenwood. Records don't show how Davis and Rezko split the money. Davis owned 51 percent of New Kenwood, Rezko 49 percent, according to the records.
www.suntimes.com

Anyone looking at this for longer than Corky's attention span will likely notice that Rezko and Davis were involved in building and managing publically-financed real estate projects in lower income areas. They are charged with criminal acts relating to the MONEY, not singularly the projects.

How anyone would find it seemly that a local legislator WOULDN'T be involved in community publically-funded projects of this type obviously doesn't understand politics in the slightest. But in no way does monetary support of Obama's campaigns appear to be anything more than what it is: the place where business, money and politics intersect, as they do for every politician in America at some point.

Keep beating this dead horse Corky. It ain't getting up and galloping anywhere but your's and the Clinton's pathetic dreams!

-GOP oppo-research team's work

As if they needed any help, lol!

-to vet every single supporter that jumps on your bandwagon

Rezko was his friend, mentor, and main funder, not just another supporter.

Hillary watch out: when you take off the gloves we can see what your hands really look like.

We know you are banking on the hope that the public is overdosed on and desensitized to the Clinton's own scandals, hence an advantage over Obama. His skeletons, though paltry compared to yours, are fresh bones with yet a little meat and gristle, upon which the public may gnaw. Lots of people already knew of your connection with Wal-Mart but many people outside Chicago had never heard of Tony Rezko until you blurted it last night. Shrill, but shrewd move.

But it will take more than that to slow down a guy like Obama. He is not connected to anything (the Illinois Democratic Politburo notwithstanding) like this hoary old Clinton machine that rumbles and creaks along spitting venom and dealing death. It even ignores the Party at will.

I won't vote for Obama but I hate to see a guy get run over by that thing, with all its dents, stains and chunks of people's lives.

Romney and McCain really got into it. Huckabee playing the Edwards role.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2008-01-22 0


aah...yeah but..rommny and mccain only got into this kind of slams when mccain went on and on about the mexicans in rommny's yard..
this was some serious she said, he said...........did any of this sound like any of your arguments with the little woman?????


and rush was right....AGAIN>.......

last night was proof that SHE DOES NOT CRY......only when the stage lights are just right and it would make her look human....................

I cant help but believe that if this continues that it will soon come to hurt them more than help them...

SO GO GET UM.......dont let the bitch get away with ANYTHING...

hey hillary....NEXT TIME.....dont forget his real name......


Obama and his Rezko ties

www.suntimes.com

from a story on realclearpolitics.com

"The euphoria is gone, the friendly fire has started: Barack Obama is suddenly looking less like a superstar and more like just another candidate. His message isn't hitting home with the three most important groups of voters: women, older Americans and blue-collar workers."

www.spiegel.de


The euphoria is gone, the friendly fire has started: Barack Obama is suddenly looking less like a superstar and more like just another candidate.

I guess South Carolina didn't get the memo!

22 Jan 2008 11:59 am

I loved this Byron York anecdote from South Carolina:

I went to Barack Obama's rally here, on Sunday night, with a Republican friend who had never seen the Illinois senator in action before. Watching the crowd of more than 3,000 fill up the convention center, watching the people send up waves of energy to Obama, and watching him play off that energy in a speech that was one of the best political performances anyone has seen this year, my Republican friend said, simply, "Oh, shit." He recalled the scene from Jaws, in which the small seaside town's sheriff realizes how big the shark he's tracking truly is, and says, "We're gonna need a bigger boat."

Why is something so obvious to Republicans not clear (yet) to Democrats?


andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com

No doubt this represents disgust at the core of the Obama coalition and little else. But I have received too many emails on these lines not to pass it along:

I am a lifelong Democrat and have been a strong Obama advocate--even donating money for the very first time in my life. (And I am over 50.) Still, all along, I thought, if Clinton gets the nomination, I'd vote for her over a Republican. Especially after the past decade of the Republican experience. However, after seeing Clinton in action in these past weeks and at last night's debate (as well as Bill's "contributions"), I will never vote for her. Never. If she gets the nomination, I will have to hope that McCain is nominated and give him a good look.

While I have considerable disagreement with him on a policy level, he is a man of integrity. (Mostly; but that's another email.) Perhaps a McCain presidency balanced by a Democratic Congress will serve the country well. But no matter the Republican nominee, one thing is certain: I will not vote for Hillary. The person who once bemoaned the politics of personal destruction now applies them with stomach-turning zeal. Not to mention her well-crafted art of the politics of distortion. No, that's not what I want for this country. We've had enough of destruction, distortion and manipulation. Obama is a breath of welcome fresh air. If the country does not see it, well, then I suppose we'll "get what we deserve." Again.


andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com


Corky's author needs to get out of the basement a little more and stop frequenting pro-Hillary blogs. Some people understand that honesty is a virtue this nation's leader needs so that America's "soft power" becomes viable again. The truth isn't a liability to one's personal desires, it defines who we are as a people. Enough lies, enough triangulation, enough telling us what a bad person your adversary is based on who they might know. Inspire us to reach within ourselves and contribute to make this nation great again.

"You know that I already know this. But I wish Hillary would stop trying to do the GOP oppo-research team's work for them."

It just falls in line with the "Corky Doctrine" - its better if the Clintons lie about him now because it will just toughen him up for the general election.

"Obama has a relationship with Rezko that dates back many years, but there's no indication Obama did anything improper. Shortly after finishing law school, Obama, who had turned down a job offer from the developer, went to work at a law firm where he represented some community groups that partnered with Rezko to apply for housing rehabilitation loans. As a state legislator, he wrote letters to city and state officials in support of Rezko's efforts to build apartments for the elderly with government money; the senator asserts that this was a project the community wanted." -Factcheck.org

"This myth that Obama, and only Obama, can "bring people together" is based on absolutely nothing."
--DANNI


I'm afraid you just aren't getting it. How can you argue against the politics of hope?

"This myth that Obama, and only Obama, can "bring people together" is based on absolutely nothing."
--DANNI

And ... could you cite any examples where Clinton has reached out to anyone other than the traditional Democratic base?

In fact, by distorting and misrepresenting Obama's comments on Reagan, she and Bill have done exactly the opposite.

This myth that Obama, and only Obama, can "bring people together" is based on absolutely nothing.


Where is Rightocenter? I think we have a 'Moment of Clarity Award' for the day.


Most candidates claim that they are 'Uniters not Dividers'.

Hell, Bush started off as a uniter. He immediately re-nominated all of Clinton's stalled judicial nominees and then reached accross the aisle and worked jointly with Sen. Kennedy on 'No Child Left Behind'. Granted, it certainly didn't last long, but that's how he started. Heck, Reagan (whom liberals despise with every fiber of their being) met with Tip O'Neil every week to discuss means of comprimise in order to get things done. Is any leftie on this blog going to honestly proclaim that this ability of Reagan made him a great president? I am not sure why you all of a sudden now think this is such an important characteristic. Oh, that's right, Obama has sound 'judgement' (sic).


PS - Sen. McCain has a much longer history of reaching accross the aisle than does Obama.

"PS - Sen. McCain has a much longer history of reaching accross the aisle than does Obama."

As you approach the century mark, you're bound to have a much longer history of about everything than LOTS of people.

And ... could you cite any examples where Clinton has reached out to anyone other than the traditional Democratic base?

In fact, by distorting and misrepresenting Obama's comments on Reagan, she and Bill have done exactly the opposite.


To a point, Danni is right, and I guess she hasn't noticed that I've made this connection.

The problem is that neither Hillary nor Bill have uttered one single word about building a majority coalition in order to get their policies enacted. It isn't about reaching across the aisle as much as it is energizing those who've stay out of politics because there's been little there for them in the past or those completely torn with the direction of today's GOP. Its about taking these people along with the Party and defeating as many Republicans in November as possible. If I'm not mistaken, there are nearly twice as many GOP Senators up for re-election as there are Democrats. If the Democratic presidential candidate can bring these voters along with the base, the shape of Congress will be more conducive to the progressive agenda.

This is where both Hillary and John miss the chance to actually have a governing majority if they're elected. Obama has always seen this as the key to bringing about the change he's based his campaign on, and not just being a person reaching across the aisle with palm upraised. I just saw someone else say this on another blog, but it fits this discussion to a "t".

"I'd rather have someone willing to build a bridge across the divide rather than having someone seek to throw dynamite into it."

McCain arrived in Miami and started saying he was here at the Bay of Pigs.

How does that help him except among 80 year old Cubans?

As you approach the century mark, you're bound to have a much longer history of about everything than LOTS of people.


That is true, Rogue.

It also speaks to my point:

If reaching accross the aisle is so damn important, McCain has a much more proven history (due in large part to much more history in general) of accomplishing this than does Obama. One of Obama's biggest hurdles is his lack of 'applicable' experience IMO.

"As you approach the century mark, you're bound to have a much longer history of about everything than LOTS of people."

If this is true, then Vernie has reached across more aisles than all the Wal-Marts put together.

I'm afraid you just aren't getting it. How can you argue against the politics of hope?
Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE


What this country desperately needs is a pulling-together. Hillary Clinton, as many DR posters rightly assert, will not deliver this because she is such a polarizing figure. And despite Obama's enthusiasm, I don't think he can fully deliver on this either. I think the only way to get Americans off each other's throats and o start the healing would be a McCain/Obama ticket in November. They could win easily and with a clean, clear bipartisan mandate vs all this cheap scuffling for votes as we saw in Nevada.

I think the only way to get Americans off each other's throats and o start the healing would be a McCain/Obama ticket in November.


I don't think it'll happen.

They are diametrically opposed on too many critical issues (most importantly health care).


Plus, I don't think either of these 2 would settle for veep.

"If reaching accross the aisle is so damn important,"

Its a combination of things Jeff. Policies and agendas that align with one's own, plus the willingess to at least try to reach out bring others on board.

So far Obama is the only candidate who has really made any attempt to do this.

I agree, McCain has done so in the past and at one time had an appeal across a broader spectrum. We will see whether or not being too closely aligned with Bush lately has hurt that.

PS: Thompson just dropped out for those who hadn't heard.

So far Obama is the only candidate who has really made any attempt to do this.


'Made any attempt' as in his own stint in the senate, or on the campaign trail?

"to start the healing would be a McCain/Obama ticket in November."

That is an interesting proposition, and I don't think its out of the realm of possibility.

To Jeff's point - I think Obama might consider the Veep spot. Especially with McCain because he would be practically assured of a shot at the top in 4 years.

"Made any attempt' as in his own stint in the senate, or on the campaign trail?"

Both - Obama has several pieces of legislation co-authored with Republicans in the Senate. His record in Illinois is also excellent.

In fact, a Republican colleague in the Illinois legislature (who is supporting McCain) actually appears in a new Obama ad stating how effectively Obama worked across the aisle during his years there.

Rogue,


To Jeff's point - I think Obama might consider the Veep spot. Especially with McCain because he would be practically assured of a shot at the top in 4 years.


He's cetainly young enough to try and utilize the veep slot as a stepping-stone.

I don't get your 4-year timeline. Are you suggesting that in 4 years he'd resign as Veep and then run against McCain? Or are you suggesting that McCain will croak by then?

Both - Obama has several pieces of legislation co-authored with Republicans in the Senate. His record in Illinois is also excellent.


Well, I am for more concerned with actual accomplishments than touchy-feely campaign rhetoric.

Given his observable history I acknowledge that you can point to success at reaching accross the aisle. However, (as I already stated) if that is such an important criteria, it is safe to say that McCain has accomplished this consistently over a much longer period of time.

I don't think McCain will croak, but look at how the Presidency has aged the last few occupants. Its a tough job and McCain will be pushing 77 at the end of a first term.

I don't really see him serving 2 terms.

Oh.

So you are predicting that he'd resign (due to age) after his first term.


I doubt it, but I suppose it's plausible.

"I already stated) if that is such an important criteria, it is safe to say that McCain has accomplished this consistently over a much longer period of time."

Again Jeff, as I said before, it has to be a combination of that AND having policies and an agenda that aligns with one's personal politics. It is not the sole determining factor.

I don't really see him serving 2 terms.

Posted by SanAntonioRogue

I pray to God he doesn't serve 1.

"So you are predicting that he'd resign (due to age) after his first term."

There is a difference between resigning and choosing not to run for reelection.

Again Jeff, as I said before, it has to be a combination of that AND having policies and an agenda that aligns with one's personal politics. It is not the sole determining factor.



So it's kinda like a tie-breaker then since (from what I've observed so far) the agendas of Hillary, Edwards and Obama are virtually indistinguishable.

There is a difference between resigning and choosing not to run for reelection.


Agreed. That is why I included the "due to his age" disclaimer.

"So it's kinda like a tie-breaker then since (from what I've observed so far) the agendas of Hillary, Edwards and Obama are virtually indistinguishable."

I guess you could look at it that way. We've had nearly 16 years of division in the country, most especially the last 7+ because of Bush getting elected by less than a majority, then a tiny majority of the popular vote, and small electoral margins.

We don't need that acrimony for another 4-8 years so some of us are looking for the candidate who can and will try to bring Independents and even moderate Republicans to the table and build a consensus. Something more than the "50% + 1" of recent history.

I see that opportunity to get to a better place with Obama.

We don't need that acrimony for another 4-8 years so some of us are looking for the candidate who can and will try to bring Independents and even moderate Republicans to the table and build a consensus. Something more than the "50% + 1" of recent history.


I can't argue with that.


For me, it boils down to policy first.

The Democratic agenda flat-out scares me. Therefore, I am pragmatically favoring the Republican(s) whom I feel would have the best chance at winning the general election. The 2 that fit that bill (and perhaps not coincidentally have the broadest appeal to moderates) are Guilliani and McCain.

Guilliani has broad appeal amongst moderates?

PS: Thompson just dropped out for those who hadn't heard.
Posted by SanAntonioRogue


I heard it was actually some sort of a roll-call and Sleepy Fred just snored right through it.

Guilliani has broad appeal amongst moderates?


Broader than his Republican peers, except for possibly McCain.

Last night sealed it for me.

If Hillary is the nominee I'll be voting for McCain. If he's not the GOP nominee, then 3rd party for me.

I'm sick to death of the Clintons. They've shown their true colors this election and have totally turned my wife and I against them from former admirers. Not because we like Obama, but because we love our country and don't want another 4-8 years of mudslinging in Washington. Hillary will only perpetuate the old fights in this country. I've had enough of that.

Let McCain take the WH for 4 years and put the Clintons to bed. From the looks of Bill sleeping through MLK Day he needs it.

Yep. I'll take McCain's actual 35 years of service to his country over Hillary's fake 35 years. Heck, 35 years ago she was still in law school. Since when does someone's being first lady of a Gov. or Prez give her claim to that?

Never thought I'd say it, but I'll be voting McCain over Clinton should she be the nominee.

50 + 1 is not the way for a president to govern. Hillary will be as divisive as Bush. Not for me, thanks.

My thinking is McCain can put an end to the divisiveness in D.C. and in 4 years we can elect a Dem like Obama when McCain is too old to continue. In this case Hillary vs McCain will be voting for the one who won't breed hatred and destroy any chance of unity for the foreseeable future.

AU - see? My McCain/Obama ticket idea is catching on!

I love the idea MRFAIR! THAT would be a unity ticket if I ever saw one.

I'm not QUITE there yet AU, but I'm getting close. Up until very recently you've seen me posting that the party will come together after the convention and rally around the eventual nominee.

I'm no longer sure of that. I think there is a real danger of the Clintons fracturing the party in their zeal to win at any cost. I will seriously consider other options if she is the nominee.

I'm sure Corky will be along to offer me cheese directly. (That just never gets old, does it?)

You know Corky, right? Yeah, the one who originated the "Corky Doctrine". That's right, the one who advocates that having the Clintons lie about Obama now will toughen him up for what the Republicans might do.

Lest we forget that Bloomberg will be running on a "Unity' ticket should Hillary be the DEM nominee.

The Clinton's had their time. Time for something different. The old wars must come to an end if America is to survive as anything recognizable to us older Americans.

SANANTONIO

My wife and I held McCain in high regard before he became Bush's poodle over Iraq. He IS a guy that both sides admire nonetheless, who's reached across party lines to do unpopular things in the GOP's view, and someone capable of finally putting the last 20 years of political division to rest. For that reason alone, I'll pick him over Hillary, who will just drag that fight on and make it worse.

Corky has already said that the Clintons don't need the vote of people like us, AU and Sanan.

Give Corky a break!!!

As one of Hillary's Boy Toys he can do nothing else or she'll flog his wet noodle.

But of course if you don't like Hill/Billary then you just another mysoginst.

Never mind her mandatory health insurance, etc.

She's the Day 1 candidate.

I worry about the 1460 days that follow.

It will all end when Bill Clinton is announced as Hillary's VP.

The Constitution is quite clear about the requirements, and restrictions, on running for office.

Bill Clinton can be President, so long as he is not elected to the position. That is possible through the VP, therefore, the Amendments don't stop him.

A Hillary/Bill Ticket would be hard to beat.

I can just see the commercials.

"Vote for Bill."

OZARK

I can't understand Hillary's whole '35 years of experience'. She was in law school 35 years ago, then a corporate lawyer, then a first lady for years. Since when does THAT give you 35 years experience? She didn't even hold a security clearance in the WH. So, how is it she was privy to all this top secret intel? There's the REAL fairytale.

Obama has more legislative experience than Hillary does. She makes a big deal out of his 'present' votes, which are very commonly used when a particular piece of legislation has legal problems, or if there are amendments to a bill that are at odds with the whole purpose of the main bill's intention.

Obama worked 5 hours on behalf of a church group who purchased some land from Rezko, which now contains a health clinic, community center, and a jobs training program. Wow, some scandal!

Meanwhile, Hillary fails to mention (as does Obama gracefully) that she just had to return $850,000 Hzu raised. Hzu, now parked in a Federal Pen.

I'm sick, sick, sick of Hillary!

Corky has already said that the Clintons don't need the vote of people like us, AU and Sanan.

Posted by taxman


Guess again LOL

Funny thing is my Republican friends really like Obama. He's the only Dem candidate at this point who can win.

I worry about the 1460 days that follow.

Not to mention, just what does she plan to do on Day One? Have Monica deported? Bomb Iran? Go to Area 51 to search for relatives?

What if what she's prepared for is completely different then than it is now, has Hillary thought of that? Speak of meaningless cliches, this tops them all!

I love all of this in-fighting within the Democratic ranks.

I hope their primaries are really tight with Hillary emerging victorious, but torn and battered.


Then, the Republicans can use all of the negative-Hillary sound-bites and writings that were composed by Democrats.

"Hey! We are not smearing Hillary. We are simply repeating what you said about her, before she won the nomination."

JEFFJ

Don't pretend like there isn't infighting on the GOP side. To do so is disengenuous.

All the right talkradioheads are bashing McCain at every turn.

Romney makes me want to puke.

PS JEFFJ

I watched the last 3 GOP debates. They are about the same as last night's DEM debate. So, let's not get on our high horse, eh pal?

"All the right talkradioheads are bashing McCain at every turn."
--AU


I think McCain's gotten a pretty unfair rep as RINO from the Limbaugh's and Hannity's.

But they don't get paid to be fair.

AU,


Of course the Republicans have their share of in-fighting.


Nevertheless, this Hil vs. Hussein battle seems to be seriously fragmenting the Democratic party, much moreso than the Republicans are fragmenting.


I think some Hillary supporters will have a hard time embracing Obama if he wins.

I KNOW many Obama supporters will have a REAL hard time embracing Hillary is she wins - even if they tried, they probably couldn't get their arms all the way around her, unless they are Kevin McHale.

JEFFJ

Your 'Hussein' comment is exactly the thing that pisses off hundreds of millions of Americans. Did YOU get to pick your father or your middle name?

You're an asshole.

McCain and Huck are moderates. Sure they're they are going to get ripped by Mitt and Rudy. The difference between Clinton and Obama is almost nil, so I can't see the comparison. JeffJ is right.

I think some Hillary supporters will have a hard time embracing Obama if he wins.


And their alternative would be...?

Your partisan-slip is showing jeffy.

As Peggy Noonan said last week, the Republicans are searching for their soul. Maybe they can get the Devil to return the merchandise, but I doubt it.

AU,


Drink a beer and chill out.


I used 'Hussein' primarilly for the alliteration.


BTW - what's wrong with calling him by his middle name?

Lotsa people call Bush "W".



Also, your outrage is very selective. 'Hussein', which happens to be his actual middle name seems a lot less offensive to me than 'Chimpy' or 'Shrub'.

W is an abbreviation. They used it for his campaign stickers.

Your use of 'Hussein' is intended to be insulting and racially vicious.

You're a racist asshole.

Please, Jeff. Don't be an idiot.

You're a racist asshole.


It's his fucking name you thin-skinned, hysterical moron.

How is it racist calling the guy by his middle name?


Feel free to call me Allen, if it makes you feel better. It's my middle name for Pete's sake.


I guess when his mother raised her voice and said warningly, "Barrack Hussein!" she was racist too.


Spare me your pathetic use of the race card, tool.


Oh, and you conveniently failed to address my point regarding "Chimpy".


I guess it's OK to call a president "Chimpy" becuase you don't like him. But if a Republican has the audacity to call your guy by his given middle name then he's a "racist asshole".

That's real logical.

"The difference between Clinton and Obama is almost nil"
--WISGOD


True for most of the Dem candidates, but that wouldn't qualify them as locksteppers, would it?

I'm not responsible for what anyone else called Bush.

You're responsible for your own race baiting bullshit.

OK, Monte...


I did it for alliteration AND because I knew that for some irrational reason, calling him by his middle name upsets some of his over-reactive supporters.

See AU as Exhibit A.


I'm outa here

Then, the Republicans can use all of the negative-Hillary sound-bites and writings that were composed by Democrats.

"Hey! We are not smearing Hillary. We are simply repeating what you said about her, before she won the nomination."

Posted by JeffJ at 2008-01-22 04:34 PM


That beared repeating...a Rove clone is sitting in some dark room right now parsing sound bites to use in the GE, and they will be ones that the Democratic candidates used on each other.

Then let's see the faux outrage when the GOP nominee repeats the same lines.

Priceless.

"Hil vs. Hussein"
--JEFFJ


The real story here is Jeff's misogynist attack on Hillary.

What's alliterative about 'Hussein'

Go back to school race baiting asshole.

Lastly,

If his name is so abhorrent, he can have it legally changed.

It worked for Cassius Clay and Lou Alcindor.


If he were to change his name, I'd call him by his new name.


For now, I think I may start calling him "H" - or I may call him 'Hussein' simply because doing so apparently invokes an irrational response; which I find humorous.

Please, Jeff. Don't be an idiot.

Too Late...

True for most of the Dem candidates, but that wouldn't qualify them as locksteppers, would it?

Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

My point is it seemed foolish for them to get into a pissing contest last night. And I think it will hurt Hillary. That Rezko insult was over the top.

What's alliterative about 'Hussein'

Go back to school race baiting asshole.



I think you need to look up the word 'alliteration' and then retract your back to school comment, crybaby.


I'll help you:


Hil vs. Hussein


Look it up.

Then:

A. Quit your crying
B. Drink a beer
C. Thicken your skin
D. Quit falsely playing the race card, or, explain how calling someone by their given name is racist

LoD gets a funny!


Alright, seriously outa here.

Then let's see the faux outrage when the GOP nominee repeats the same lines.

Priceless.

Posted by Rightocenter at 2008-01-22 05:09 PM


Geez, I should have said "GOP supporter on the DR"

You're an asshole.

You're a racist asshole.

Please, Jeff. Don't be an idiot.

You're responsible for your own race baiting bullshit.


Chill out, in all the years that Jeff has been on the DR, he has never been racist, and is one of the more reasoned posters here.

Please, Jeff. Don't be an idiot....like me.

Posted by MONTECORE

ROC

I thought JEFFJ was allright too until the 'Hussein'. Lately he's been sounding like the talkradio I turn off if I've accidentally left the radio on Clear Channel after listening to a sports show.

Tell me who gets to pick their father or their middle name?

Anyone who zeros in on that for any reason is a racist in my book.

It's not Jeff's fault that the left wingers are putting up a guy who's middle name happens to be "Hussein."

Did anyone honestly think that it would just be overlooked? Not used against him?

If so you're smoking too much hope.

And I'd say the same of Obama were a GOP candidate.

And I'd say the same if Obama were a GOP candidate.


And I'd say the same of Obama were a GOP candidate.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Put the current President is fair game, right?

"Please, Jeff. Don't be an idiot....like me.

Posted by MONTECORE"

Gee, MONTE, I don't necessarily think you're an idiot. You're just full of shit...so full of shit that you probably have a turd in every pocket.

AU-

Regardless of where he got it from, I wouldn't expect him to be race baiting. From my 10,000 foot level observing your conversation, I personally think that you overreacted, and that's why Jeff bailed.

I'm not sure that your outrage would have reached the level it did if he was talking about, say Colin Powell, but it is good to hear you would defend a black GOP candidate under similar circumstances.

It's not Jeff's fault that the left wingers are putting up a guy who's middle name happens to be "Hussein."

What's Hillary's middle name? (Hint: it isn't Rodham, thats her maiden name)

What's Huckabee's middle name? How about McCain? Rudy? John Edwards? Kucinich? "Bueller...?????"

To mention Obama's name in any context where one's full name isn't de rigeur is an overt attempt to inject/play to prejudice/bias against Muslims into the discussion! To me this isn't even arguable.

Now if someone is using it to portray just how far America has come in realizing Dr. King's "Dream" or to highlight Obama's diverse background, then thats another story.

Let's not be naive, mentioning "Hussein" is nothing more than an cheap easy dig that even a moron can complete without the help of even three brain cells.

"For now, I think I may start calling him "H" - or I may call him 'Hussein' simply because doing so apparently invokes an irrational response; which I find humorous.

Posted by JeffJ at 2008-01-22 05:12 PM"

Jeff - I don't give a shit what you choose to call him. I just don't think you should pretend that you were calling him that without a clue of the controversy that erupted a few months back when some GOP hack or another (or a few of them) kept trying to make a big fuss about it. You're naive, but you're not stupid, and for you to pretend that it was some alliteration thing and not an attempt to fan the flames was weak.

"For now, I think I may start calling him "H" - or I may call him 'Hussein' simply because doing so apparently invokes an irrational response; which I find humorous.

Posted by JeffJ at 2008-01-22 05:12 PM"

Jeff - I don't give a shit what you choose to call him. I just don't think you should pretend that you were calling him that without a clue of the controversy that erupted a few months back when some GOP hack or another (or a few of them) kept trying to make a big fuss about it. You're naive, but you're not stupid, and for you to pretend that it was some alliteration thing and not an attempt to fan the flames was weak.

Jest - why don't you go back to accusing Sarge of faking his service to this country. This doesn't concern you, and Jeff doesn't need you to carry water for him.

"Let's not be naive, mentioning "Hussein" is nothing more than an cheap easy dig"
--TONYROMA


That's obvious.

This is American politics you're talking about. All the fucking hope in the world isn't going to change that in the immediate future. Cheap easy digs can wreck an entire campaign; they're too effective not to be used.

Go ahead and be offended.

Don't pretend the same thing wouldn't happen should a GOP candidate have had the middle name, Adolf.

"Jest - why don't you go back to accusing Sarge of faking his service to this country."

Monte...Sarge and I kissed and made up long ago. You are the only one carrying it on to today. Where is Sarge anyway, do you know?

Wanna declare a truce? We can just call it a cease fire if you like.

"You're just full of shit...so full of shit that you probably have a turd in every pocket.

Posted by jestgettinalong at 2008-01-22 05:24 PM"

Wow. That is fucking funny, Jest. You make that up yourself?

that's why Jeff bailed.

He's always been a pussy.

And why do you think that Hillary's campaign ran robocalls in Nevada using Obama's full name. A recording made on an answering machine used that 4-5 times in the course of one minute.

Only a bigot would use or defend that.

And there's enough of them to stock both parties.

You're responsible for your own race baiting bullshit.
Posted by AMERICANUNITY


AU - I am scratching my head as to how an otherwise thoughtful and generally fair poster such as yourself can have such a freakout over this.

Calling someone "Hussein" even in a hurtful tone would still not be technically racist. "Racist" has to do with race and the name "Hussein" is not tied to a race at all but to certain ethnic groups. Just as the name "Patrick" is connected with the ethnic group called Irish or Gaelic.

Jeff may have been taking a little poke at Obama, but somehow really got YOUR goat instead. It's kind of embarrassing to see you "Corkify" yourself on behalf of your candidate over this.

My friend AU please chill.

Jest - I don't know where Sarge is. I don't agree to cease-fires, but I don't tend to throw shit at those who aren't already throwing it themselves. So treat others how you'd like to be treated (hey - that has a certain ring to it...), and you probably won't find yourself in my crosshairs very often.

"Hussein" is not tied to a race at all but to certain ethnic groups

Yeah, it would have nothing to do with a guy named Saddam.

MrFair - I think it had something to do with Jeff being intentionally and disingenuously obtuse about the issue, and initially refusing to admit what he was up to.

"So treat others how you'd like to be treated (hey - that has a certain ring to it...), and you probably won't find yourself in my crosshairs very often."

Wait a minute now, I don't wanna go all mushy here or anything. Wouldn't be any fun at all if we all just did "touchy feelie" with each other all the time...no? I would probably feel neglected if I didn't get a little jab now and then. Most posters are reasonable but some (DethSpud in particular) can be overbearing.

He's a little example of how evil Hillary can be--letters were sent to Jews in Hebrew playing the Saddam Card[TM]. www.politico.com

At least some have see it for what it is and responded:

January 15, 2008

An Open Letter to the Jewish Community:

As leaders of the Jewish community, none of whose organizations will endorse or oppose any candidate for President, we feel compelled to speak out against certain rhetoric and tactics in the current campaign that we find particularly abhorrent. Of particular concern, over the past several weeks, many in our community have received hateful emails that use falsehood and innuendo to mischaracterize Senator Barack Obama's religious beliefs and who he is as a person.

These tactics attempt to drive a wedge between our community and a presidential candidate based on despicable and false attacks and innuendo based on religion. We reject these efforts to manipulate members of our community into supporting or opposing candidates.

Attempts of this sort to mislead and inflame voters should not be part of our political discourse and should be rebuffed by all who believe in our democracy. Jewish voters, like all voters, should support whichever candidate they believe would make the best president. We urge everyone to make that decision based on the factual records of these candidates, and nothing less.

Sincerely,

William Daroff, Vice President, United Jewish Communities

Nathan J. Diament, Director, Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America

Abraham Foxman, National Director, Anti-Defamation League

Richard S. Gordon, President, American Jewish Congress

David Harris, Executive Director, American Jewish Committee

Rabbi Marvin Hier, Dean, Simon Wiesenthal Center

Rabbi David Saperstein, Director, Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism

Phyllis Snyder, President, National Council of Jewish Women

Hadar Susskind, Washington Director, Jewish Council for Public Affairs

Aggie and Monte - your points are well made, but for AU to accuse Jeff of race-baiting (his actual words) is simply not accurate and looked like a hell of an overreaction.

We should save outrage for the serious shit. Look: If "Hussein" alludes to Obama's Muslim connections, then according to SOP in the DR, that's fair. For example: many government officials and even DR posters have been smeared over and over again with epithets such as "fascist" "goose-stepper" "Brown SHirt" "Nazi" "Reichwinger" and worse. NEWSFLASH: THESE ARE FILTHY AND DISGUSTING THINGS TO CALL PEOPLE. Why are people with zero connections to Nazi Germany called these things? And then ask: did Obama ever have any real connections to Islam? Do you see? It's fair game, in the superheated political blogosphere.

Though he doesn't have my vote, I like Obama's fresh-faced appeal and based on what I know I will not use "Hussein" against him. But don't be so surprised if some folks do, right or wrong.

MRFAIR

Like I said earlier, I'd say the same thing if Obama were a GOP candidate.

Using 'Hussein' is intended to be racist. You don't call fearmongering over Arabs racist?

This is in the same vein as what Rove did to McCain in SC 8 years ago - insinuating he had a black baby out of wedlock, when he's actually adopted her.

I don't care what the reasons are, it's race baiting by whatever name you'd prefer to call it.

Hadar Susskind, Washington Director, Jewish Council for Public Affairs
Posted by OzarkAggie


Well maybe these guys have a new customer in JEFFJ. ;o)

AU - "racist" is the wrong word, for starters. The name "Hussein" is not tied to a race. Maybe "bigoted" or "discriminatory" would be a better choice. Don't you remember the discussions about Immigration and of Americans vs. Mexicans? How the term "racist" was continually used yet neither "Mexican" nor "American" is a RACE? See?

I don't have time to write any more but I will be back later.

It's fair game, in the superheated political blogosphere.

And if Mr Fair says so, it must be so...LOL

Actually I love to call out jeffy because he pretends to be non-partisan. He's the self-appointed impartial judge of debates, though his record speaks differently.

Every once in a while he slips and we pounce.

You're right...it's not racial, but it is prejudicial.

The implication is that he won't be tough enough to handle the Islamic extremists, when in fact he may well be the best candidate to reconcile the hostility that's is now directed towards this country and unite those who oppose this radical philosophy.

How do you think they will respond to a shrew like Hillary?

Look at the success that Rice has had as Secretary of State.

I don't say that we should consider the prejudices of the Muslims, but certainly we shouldn't be fanning the flames here in the USA.

I said 'Arabs' and not Iraqis didn't I?

Arabs are a race, Africans are a race, Asians are a race, etc.

The use of 'Hussein' is intended to conjure up images of Arab terrorists

"It's fair game, in the superheated political blogosphere.

And if Mr Fair says so, it must be so...LOL"


Aggie - thanks but I don't deserve the credit. It's been going on forever and so it must be fair right? I don't see anybody shutting down the site or leaving en masse.

BTW I think the whole Obama-Is-A-Radical-Muslim scare tactic should and will be largely ignored by anybody with sense.

And AU: sorry but "Arab" isn't a race either. I looked it up! ;0)

"Arabs are a race, Africans are a race, Asians are a race, etc."

AU- 2 out of 3 ain't bad.


"The use of 'Hussein' is intended to conjure up images of Arab terrorists"

I agree with you on this, already!

But your reaction was way overdone, like a Kenny G sax solo or a Mexican hamburger.

"I think the whole Obama-Is-A-Radical-Muslim scare tactic should and will be largely ignored by anybody with sense."

That still leaves the Republicans.

"Though he doesn't have my vote, I like Obama's fresh-faced appeal and based on what I know I will not use "Hussein" against him. But don't be so surprised if some folks do, right or wrong.

Posted by MrFair at 2008-01-22 06:32 PM"

That's what our self-described (but inaccurately self-described) impartial friend JeffJ did, and that's why he took some flak for it.

But don't be so surprised if some folks do, right or wrong.

Posted by MrFair

If he get's the nomination, and the GOP does, it will blow up in their face. You can take that to the bank.

FF for Danforth.

That was low hanging fruit, Monte.

"That was low hanging fruit..."

Nah...now Mark Foley, Ted Haggard, and Larry Craig....

But your reaction was way overdone, like a Kenny G sax solo

Ohhhhhh, now THAT'S a low blow! LOL

Overdone hamburgers I like. I'm not fond of meat that looks recently alive...

I've been hoping that Edwards will pick up enough delegates to stall the nomination. I do not think he will pass them to Hillary. OTOH, he's pretty much washed up as a national candidate so his best hope is for a cabinet slot. I'd like to see him as Attorney General, but that will only happen if Obama wins. I'm sure he knows that.

"That was low hanging fruit, Monte.

Posted by wisgod at 2008-01-22 07:22 PM"

That is unassailable, Wis.

"But your reaction was way overdone, like a Kenny G sax solo

Ohhhhhh, now THAT'S a low blow! LOL"

HAHA!@!! Glad you liked that one! But now I may have alienated the Kenny G fans!


"Overdone hamburgers I like. I'm not fond of meat that looks recently alive..."

Especially at Jack In The Box. ;o)


jack In The Box once saved my butt:

When I was quite young I was drunk on my ass driving down the freeway eating a Jumbo Jack who's sauce was all over my face and hands. A highway patrolman pulled up alongside of me, rolled down his window, did a double take, shook his head and sped off. For once, it was nice getting dissed by someone! LOL

"That is unassailable..."
- Ted Kennedy, shortly after his sailboat sank

STOP! Stop stop stop. Does anyone see what is going on here? Does anyone actually see through the bullshit and see the reality? We have a "half coffee, half cream" American citizen, white mother, black father, running for president. He is so far successful in his run for president. He is more representative of the American population than many want to admit, this country is a nation of Black/white, hispanic/white, Irish/italian, German/irish, you name it, this country is really a melting pot of cultures and races. And yet, the persons who have supposedly been champions for the little guy, the blacks, the hispanics, the cross-breeds, (meant in the most polite way I can put it) all of a sudden are spending an inordinate amount of time slamming the candidate who epitomizes Dr. King's dream. The candidate who will say to the world that America has matured and is not afraid of change. The Clintons are willing to do anything, ANYTHING to destroy anyone that comes in the way of their plan of power, they feel that they have worked for this and they deserve it, it is their's for the taking, and this upstart, this non-starter is actually giving them a run for their money. The Clinton machine will stop at NOTHING to destroy anyone who stands in the way of their ambitions, NOTHING. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. I am afraid for Obama, while I would absolutely love to see him elected president I am afraid that if he gets the nomination with Hillary a close second he will end up being assasinated, whereupon Hillary will cry (on cue) and gracefully (with a heavy heart) accept the mantle of the dem nominee. There is a trail of dead people leading to the Clinton's door, I hope upon hope that Obama is not added to that list.

jack In The Box once saved my butt:


I told Jack we needed one on Chappaquiddick.

Sincerely, Ted Kennedy

BRIT: see my earlier post...

Posted by MrFair at 2008-01-22 01:38 PM

Breaking News on the Clintons'

Breaking News on the Clintons'

Please read below: I am tired of these professional scam artists...

online.wsj.com

Breaking News on the Clintons'

Breaking News on the Clintons'

Please read below: I am tired of these professional scam artists...

online.wsj.com

Breaking News on the Clintons'

Breaking News on the Clintons'

Please read below: I am tired of these professional scam artists...

online.wsj.com

" There is a trail of dead people leading to the Clinton's door..."

Any actual proof, or is the bar accusations only?

-Obama talks about getting together to solve problems and Hillary made him look divisive.
-By bitch slapping him, she made him look nice. Nice guys don't get to be president.
-Bill says outrageous things to get Obama distracted.
-The Clinton's haven't used all their ammunition on Obama. Watch his bleeding increase with every shot.
-Hillary and Bill are two of the parties best fund raisers. That buys a lot of votes.
-These are two masters of the game. The kid from Illinois hasn't got a chance.

-These are two masters of the game. The kid from Illinois hasn't got a chance.

Posted by Ray

Sadly Ray, I think you're right.


Ol' Ozarky and the Mountain Boys like their women barefoot and pregnant, making cookies in the kitchen.

Real women just scare the holy shit out them.

Real Women Corky?

LMAO

Even her husband doesn't want to tap that gory hole.

Naturally a sycophant like yourself would mistake my disgust for fear.

Do you think sleazy politics and mandatory health insurance to be good for this country?

The Clintons are all about machine politics. They've laid out a buffet for the special interest groups in the Democratic Party - something for everyone.

BTW, anyone see this video of
Bubba taking a nap?



Delusions of everything from Hillary the Socialist to Hillary the Corporate Whore are making lots of money for people who analyze the clinically obsessed anti-Hillary crowd.

If I want to see sleazy politics, all I have to do is read the Chicago papers about Obama's long, mutually rewarding relationship with friend, mentor, and major funder Tony Rezko.

Wonder if Rezko will call Obama as a character witness in his upcoming trial, or if Patrick Fitzgerald will call Obama to testify about the letters he wrote for his former slum lord boss?

The Clinton's know how to work the system, they would be dead if they didn't. But she will push for and sign public financing legislation.

Hide and watch.


Wonder if Rezko will call Obama as a character witness in his upcoming trial,

At least he will show up for trial.

He could flee or end up dead like friends of the Clintons.

He could flee or end up dead like friends of the Clintons.

Posted by eberly

Maybe he could just mis-place the Papers ala Rose Law Firm. Corky, you are an idiot and a whore.

At least Hzu is sitting in a federal pen and the $850,000 Clinton got from him returned.

The health clinic, community center, job training center, and day care center Obama spent 5 hours doing paperwork for on as an associate lawyer got built.

All the Clinton's are good at is tearing things down.

McCain vs Clinton and McCain's my man.

I used to think I could hold my nose and vote for Hillary, but me like millions of others couldn't hold back the bile dying to get puked out.

The only reason I considered voting for Hillary was because Bill would be able to restore our standing in the world. That was before Bill Clinton turned into an asshole and started tearing our electoral process apart. Bill Clinton is an asshole.

Corky, you continue to soil what little (I should say infintisimal but I'm trying to be kind) credibility you have left.

Hillary will do nothing to curb the corporate lobbyists and is indebted to the special interest groups.

You don't like Rezko--I don't like Hzu.

At least Obama didn't have to return $875,000.

But most of all I despise the Clintons. On principle.


On what principle?

Hillary will push for and sign public financing legislation, clinical obsessions notwithstanding.

Let me ask you, what was it about the 90's you hated most, the peace or the prosperity?

All campaigns return money to donors.

Not all campaigns return money to donors that they have known and worked for, and to whom they owe their very political career.

I'll check back for your retort, in brilliantly posed prose, naturally, tomorrow.

Not all campaigns return money to donors that they have known and worked for, and to whom they owe their very political career.

That would be the Clinton's and Hzu. No one has raised more money for one candidate than Hzu. The 90's were good. Clinton was a good president, but wasn't an asshole in public either. Hiillary, who didn't even have a security clearance at the WH, is somehow claiming 35 years of experience? 35 years ago she was in law school.

I'm going to give you credit Corky for helping me decide I'll be voting for McCain should Hillary be the candidate. My wife and I don't want 4 or 8 more years of the same old political fights. McCain has stood up against his own party when it wasn't popular. Rush and Hannity are trying to do a 2000 SC on him now. But, McCain is a man worthy of respect.

Who's going to want to take a VP slot with Bill Clinton blocking the door all the time? Only a fool. Bill had his day. Time for him to ride off into the sunset. Good job, but time for him to go - and take Hillary with him.

AU- You can't be serious. McCain became Bush's butt boy on every topic BUT torture. And even that he hasn't fought against aggressively.

He commented that we could be in Iraq for 100 years and sang bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran. The campaign finance bill was a joke, and how many times can the man whore himself out to religious zealots that he himself bashes?

McCain patriotically served his country, but he has allowed politics to eat his soul.

blog.alexwhalen.com

AU

For years I was optimistic about John McCain. I hoped but never really knew for certain which side of the fence he was on.

But then I learned about his close personal relationship with William Kristol, the biggest neo-con of them all, and all my questions about John McCain were answered.

I would never be as crass as Chuck Norris but I've come to believe that John McCain is a one-termer whose only mission is to set the stage for the neo-cons to regain power in 2012.

I wish you'd give that some thought before you vote for him.

that's why Jeff bailed


I bailed because I had somewhere else I had to be.



First and foremost, I didn't realize that 'Hussein' was a big deal.

Secondly, I DID primarily choose it for alliteration purposes, although I knew that using his middle name would be slightly (I didn't think anyone would go apeshit though) irritating to some on this blog.


Lastly, spare my your fucking faux....no, selective outrage. MrFair couldn't have said it better:

We should save outrage for the serious shit. Look: If "Hussein" alludes to Obama's Muslim connections, then according to SOP in the DR, that's fair. For example: many government officials and even DR posters have been smeared over and over again with epithets such as "fascist" "goose-stepper" "Brown SHirt" "Nazi" "Reichwinger" and worse. NEWSFLASH: THESE ARE FILTHY AND DISGUSTING THINGS TO CALL PEOPLE. Why are people with zero connections to Nazi Germany called these things? And then ask: did Obama ever have any real connections to Islam? Do you see? It's fair game, in the superheated political blogosphere.



I noticed that none of you sallies bothered to address that. Heck, I made the same point, albeit less eloquently, with my allusion to "Chimpy" or "Shrub".


It's his fucking given name for Pete's sake!!!!


I am half-tempted to call him Hussein as much as possible, just to piss off your selective outrage.

......One more thing....

My use of Obama's middle name is not a dig at him - I think he's earned respect.


It's a dig at any of you who are overly sensitive about these things.

It's in a similar vain as Tadowe referring to Democrats as 'Democratics'. He's poking fun at your hyper-sensitivity to righties referring to the Democratic party as the Democrat party.


Buck up, bitches.

Jeff - I agree there was some overreaction to what you said. But I think many Obama supporters are a little sensitive to the Hussein thing because of the ugly E-mails blanketing the country continuously lately emphasizing his middle name and trying to link him to being a Muslim, attending a radical madrassa, accusing him of being loyal to Islam instead of America, etc.

You touched a nerve. And don't be all innocent-like. You know you love to goad just a bit. ;)

Poor jeffy.

He outs himself and then whines because someone noticed.

Point taken, Rogue.



He outs himself and then whines because someone noticed.


How did I out myself?

"But I think many Obama supporters are a little sensitive"
--SANAN


Quite an understatement.

More evidence of Hillary's dishonesty...

More of Hillary's dishonesty exposed today...

"Obama was associated with a law firm that represented the community groups working with Rezko on several deals. There's no evidence that Obama spent much time on them, and he never represented Rezko directly. So it was wrong for Clinton to say he was 'representing ... Rezko.' That's untrue." [FactCheck.org, 1/21/08]

And a Tribune review of land and court documents and law firm files as well as correspondence and other records related to Obama's eight years as an Illinois state lawmaker supports his contention that he did not directly represent Rezko's development firm. Instead, the records show, he represented non-profit community groups that partnered with Rezko's firm." [Chicago Tribune, 1/23/08]

The paper also examined files from the Illinois Housing Development Authority and the city housing department, as well as the hundreds of clients Obama listed in the UNUSUALLY FRANK ETHICS REPORTS he filed as a state senator from December 1995 through April 2004. [Chicago Tribune, 1/23/08]

ALEX and TWINPAC

I'm so tired of the partisan bickering. There is NO way I will vote for Hillary. That will only fan the flames of the partisan battles, and I'm not going to contribute to it. She, her husband, and their backers have proven to be ruthless liars. Corky on DR is a good example of a pityful Hillary shill - bashing Obama every chance he gets. The 'push polls', the mailers insinuating Obama is a Muslim, anti-Semite, et al, make me sick to my stomach. You say, 'Well, the Republicans will do that in the fall". Fine. You don't do that to your own. Period. That's for Karl Rove to use on McCain in 2000 for instance. The Clintons and their minions have put themselves in the same low class realm as Rove in my view.

It's a long way until fall. If Hillary's the DEM nominee Bloomberg will enter the race. My wife and I have occasionally voted GOP in the Presidential campaign, but my wife can't stand Hillary, and hasn't liked her for a long time. I guess I turned a blind eye as someone who liked the Clintons, but they've shown their true colors now and I"m on the 'NO MORE CLINTONS!" bandwagon as a result. My wife was right - even though she also voted for the Clintons twice.

McCain is far more bipartisan than Hillary. At least we can have 4 years of relative peace in D.C. The DEM Congress will keep him in line. A WH will Bill Clinton bullying his way doesn't appeal to me one iota.

Hillary takes so much money from special interests and felons, yet bashes Obama for working 5 hours as a lawyer on a project to build a health clinic, day care, job training center on land owned by Rezko.

I have dozens of friends, half of them Republican who'd vote for Obama. Hillary will lose anyway. Obama would be the best unifying candidate in the fall. But, don't let that stop the Clinton smear 'win at any cost' machine from destroying the Democratic Party.

Don't blame me. I didn't start all this bull. Bill and HIllary did. Screw 'em.

AU - I say McCain/Obama for '08.

MRFAIR

You never know.....

McCain is against torture, accepts global warming as a fact, voted against drilling in ANWR, has the same position on immigration as Hillary, voted for NAFTA, and voted against Bush's tax cuts, which are set to expire under a Democratic Congress anyway.....

Perhaps more than the proverbial "dime's worth of difference" but it is getting close....

So, why should I vote for someone I can't stand when I can vote for someone I CAN stand who has an almost identical voting record as Hillary?

"So, why should I vote for someone I can't stand when I can vote for someone I CAN stand who has an almost identical voting record as Hillary?"

Two words: Supreme Court.

So, why should I vote for someone I can't stand when I can vote for someone I CAN stand who has an almost identical voting record as Hillary?
Posted by AMERICANUNITY


Corky's non-stop flogging notwithstanding, I say we should vote for the candidate who is best for America. Someone whose first and last name do not automatically stir divisiveness. America needs healing, not more stitch-popping.

Obama/Edwards 08

McCain/Obama '08 - a TRUE reach across the aisle

Obama/Edwards '08

DONNERBOY

That's a winning ticket in the fall. Hillary will drag the Democratic Party she and Bill are fracturing with their antics to a loss in the fall. Look around on the Democratic blogs. Hillary and Bill's actions are pissing lifelong Democrats off.

Nothing will guarantee a Dem loss in the fall more than Hillary at the top of the ticket. She already had higher negatives in her polling. This campaign is adding Dems like me into that column. Should sh win the WH we'd have years of partisan bickering the likes of which we've never seen.

i had nothing against her until the last two weeks and even planned to vote for her in the fall (albeit holding my nose) should she be the nominee. No more.

Former Chicago NOW President switches from Clinton to Obama (because of 'Swiftboating')

"Lorna Brett Howard, who used to be the President of the Chicago chapter of NOW (and a NY resident), has taped a pretty devastating account of why she recently switched from supporitng Hillary Clinton to Barack Obama.

She says that she was supporting Hillary up through Iowa and New Hampshire; in Iowa she personally witnessed Hillary's people lying flat-out to young women about Obama's record on choice issues, telling them that Obama was "weak" on choice issues.

She then says that even after the Iowa incidents, she stuck with Hillary through New Hampshire--where she saw the flyer being passed around by the Hillary camp once again accusing Obama of being "weak" on choice; this was the final straw for her, so she switched over to supporting Obama"

VIDEO - Women's Rights Activist from Hillary Clinton to Barack Obama due to Swiftboating

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