And just think, the Federal Reserve and the feds have one solution: create lots of money and spread it around. Before this is over, the inflation rate will be fare worse. This is killing the middle class.

I've resigned myself to the fact that Dr. Paul won't be the next President.

Will some other candidate, please, take up the mantle of dealing with our budget and our economy. I'm not talking generalities like "I'm fiscally responsibile" or platitudes laced with political buzzwords like "stimulus package".

The budget isn't exactly some top secret text that noone has access to. Give me a candidate who will tell me "I will cut x y and z from the budget and will add a b and c , this will result in an overall +/- budget and will have this proposed effect"

Anyone?

Gustogus:

*crickets chirping*

I pray that the above won't be your answer this year, but the past has not been kind.

Paul had as much chance of president as an atheist becoming pope.

Forget about the political system. It's well beyond any possible chance for change for the better. Stock up on all the silver and gold you can afford.

Forget about the political system. It's well beyond any possible chance for change for the better. Stock up on all the silver and gold you can afford.

Posted by Ray

ammo is better..

I hear that flushing sound again in the U.S. dollar backed by nothing except good faith.

A gallon of gas is worth something. A diamond has inherent value. Gold is the standard. A printing press fed with paper is priceless!

Now this is shocking! Just shocking! I mean Drudgers right here on this very Retort have been regaling us with tales of just how swimmingly things are going(for them).
And how "See? Trickle Down Economics" (Voodoo Economics-George HW Bush)works after all!"

Ammo + gold and silver.

During the Great Depression, the government was coming from a low state of debt. This time, any spending increases inflation, adds to their already massive debt and kills the dollar. Everything they do will make this collapse worse and longer.

I mean Drudgers right here on this very Retort have been regaling us with tales of just how swimmingly things are going(for them).

The surface statistics looked good, but they were based on credit, not the production of new wealth.

Ray: agreed, and we tried to explain that here and to the righties in our own lives, and we were ridiculed for our efforts.
I hope not too many of them actually bought into it and actually put their money where their mouth was.
That would be sad.

Briwo
Let them maintain their state of denial. It's kept the prices of gold and silver at the bargain prices of the century. So much money floating around trying to find safety. So little gold and silver. Don't let this once in a century opportunity pass by.

"Stock up on all the silver and gold you can afford. "

Are you saying people should buy the actual metal and put it in a safe deposit box? I guess what I am asking is what is the most practical way of buying gold and silver.

Gold and silver doesn't mean shit to the economy, stop living in the delusion of 80 years ago.

Funny Flag for Moneywar!

Will some other candidate, please, take up the mantle of dealing with our budget and our economy.

Uhh...change?

Oh shit...that's not what you're looking for.

Are you saying people should buy the actual metal and put it in a safe deposit box? I guess what I am asking is what is the most practical way of buying gold and silver.

Yeah pretty much...


I have a funny story about this actually.

A guy I work with has taught his daughter about money from day one and started her on collecting gold and silver coins. You know, various different types of collectible sets. About 10 years ago he divorced his batshit fundie wife.

His daughter is now 13 I think. So a new collectible coin set has come out and she is asking for one of the coins from the "First Spouse" gold coin set. (A child asking for gold coins for Christmas...brings a tear to my eye. But I digress...)

So fundie mom is busting her daughter's balls saying that you don't want that, why do you want that, your father did this and he's nuts, etc. So she comes to her dad and says why is mom giving me a hard time? He says don't worry about it, she doesn't understand...but don't give her any of those coins when she needs help making her house payment in 2 years!

:D

I've resigned myself to the fact that Dr. Paul won't be the next President.


I realize that must have been a shock to you. My condolences to you in this unexpected time of sadness...

Oh come on, quit your whining. The "core" rate of inflation was only 2.4%. Of course that excludes food and energy, but who the hell needs those anyways.

Look at it this way.... inflation is our friend. We will all be millionaires. Of course a loaf of bread will cost $18,000 but what the hell.

Any wonder why Bushco resurrected the 30 year treasury note? Borrow a dollar today and pay it back with inflation destroyed dollars tomorrow.

I guess what I am asking is what is the most practical way of buying gold and silver.


I don't think you can legally buy gold or silver bars any longer, everything is delivered to you on "paper" so try taking that down to the grocery store.

And to think some people are calling for interest rate cuts!


1/2 a percent is expected.

Just another step in the plan.

To hell with gold and silver. Invest in corn. They aren't making gasoline out of gold and silver.

"To hell with gold and silver. Invest in corn. They aren't making gasoline out of gold and silver."

Can't make maize tortillas out of it either. Looks like we'll be eating burritos instead of tacos soon.

I would just love to hear Bernake's honest opinion about his predecessor who is largely responsible for this disaster. The Fed held rates at 1% to prop up Bush's economy and many of us tried to warn folks but no one would listen, now it's time to pay the piper and poor Ben is stuck with the job. I don't envy him, if he tries to boost the economy he increases inflation, if he tries to fight inflation he will kill the economy.
It is time to hang Greenspan.

It is time to hang Greenspan.
More dribblings from a complete idiot.

Oh gee, the mental midgets don't like my ideas.
In the words of Hillary Clinton, "that hurts my feelings."

So mental midgets, who would you blame for the disastrous condition of the economy???

If you answer it's going to be hilarious because you don't have the integrity to name anyone that truely shares the responsiblity.

Way To go George. Heck of a domestic policy

You'll never get, Danni. Because is all you know is hate and revenge.

If Greenspan were still in office managing the fed and you advocated hanging him to effect his removal that would be one thing. To exact revenge where it serves no purpose is entirely another.

Should read. You'll never get IT, Danni.

URGENT! Danni, Danforth, 726, Moder8, Taxman...grab up some of your bright little DR friends and report to the administration in D.C. ASAP. In this small group is all the knowledge, wisdom, and experience needed to solve ALL the problems with the economy, immigration, the environment, foreign policy, the war on terror and any other problems that are plaguing us all. Quit wasting all this expertise and report for duty first thing Monday morning. Your travel expenses will be reinbursed. Oh...Danni, leave your bong at home, please.

The dollar has lost 60% of its value against the euro in the last two years. At that rate Europeans will be paying less for gas than us. But then, Bush/Cheney always wanted higher gas prices. They couldn't be happier. And all because they weren't afraid to start wars, kill, maim and torture. Enron's best friends in charge of the whole fucking country.

Nutcase....please contact Danni and the others for travel arrangements.

""To exact revenge where it serves no purpose is entirely another."

Tell y'all what, I'll ask you how you feel about old Greeniespan in about a year or so. If you still have a home, with electricity and a computer then I'll be interested in what you think should be done with him then. BTW, at least old Greeniespan was honest about the Iraq war while none of the neocon liars would be...."it's about oil, I thought everyone knew that."
What a guy!
I sure hope the parents of those 4,000 dead American troops feel that their sacrifice was worth it so that some idiot can drive a 10 mpg SUV.

""URGENT! Danni, Danforth, 726, Moder8, Taxman...""

Gee, it's JUSTGETTINGALONG, the man who called me names and otherwise tried to ridicule me a couple of months ago for claiming inflation was here and that it would be rather severe.
Oh gee, I hope your apology isn't too humiliating.

"Oh gee, I hope your apology isn't too humiliating."

No, no, Danni. You said the RATE of inflation was the highest ever. I showed you where the RATE of inflation was highest during Carter's administration. The recent INCREASE of 4point something percent is the highest JUMP in seventeen years, but the RATE of inflation is nowhere near what it was back then. Put down the bong, Danni, take a little nappy-poo, then go look it up.

As Einstein wrote sixty years ago:

"Nowhere have we really overcome .... "the predatory phase" of human development....The economic anarchy of capitalist society....is the real source of the evil.

Private capital tends to become concentrated in few hands, (creating) an oligarchy with enormous power (that) cannot be effectively checked even by a democratically organized political society....The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development."

Is buying gold and silver a viable option? Seems that some people don't think so. Why?

I'm not an investor so I don't know shit.

I tend to think it would be a viable option, but there are two problems (for myself anyway):

1) All precious metal purchases are currently reported to Big Brother, I mean Homeland Security. That makes me more than a little nervous.

2) Who am I kidding, I couldn't even buy a single ounce of gold anymore! I'm lucky to be able to rub two pennies together every other damn day.

So, for myself... well, shit, I'm sca-rooed. Unless I start handloading bullets with homemade gunpowder and fabricate a zipgun, then go out and start stealing.

It'll kill me, true, but I still have my pride, so I won't be doing that. For the rest of you: Do whatever you can, because, as far as I can tell, things are going to go very quickly into the crapper. Save yourselves.

Invest in corn. They aren't making gasoline out of gold and silver

Gold and silver don't spoil. BTW, they ain't making gasoline out of corn either. How many ethanol ready cars do you own? How many gas stations in your area sell ethanol? In mine.... NONE.

""You said the RATE of inflation was the highest ever.""

Baloney. And by the way....Nixon caused the inflation that Carter had to deal with, and it was no accident. It was done intentionally for purely political purposes just like it was this time.
Republicans want to justify tax cuts by keeping the economy humming so they just print more money.
Fiscally responsible Republicans....an oxymoron.

Nutcase....please contact Danni and the others for travel arrangements.

Posted by jestgettinalong at 2008-01-17 09:59 AM


Sheer brilliance!

Private capital tends to become concentrated in few hands, (creating) an oligarchy with enormous power (that) cannot be effectively checked even by a democratically organized political society

We need to abolish the death tax(tm) immediately!

Sincerely,

The right.

If you burn one gallons of gasoline, how many gallons ethanol do you get? Hint, 1.3 If the government wasn't proping up ethanol production we could not afford to burn the stuff. Too much government in our business is our problem. The low prime rate is the reason our dollar is falling on the world market. CAFE standards haven't reduced our dependence on foreign oil. All it has done is let us drive more for the same cost.

Government programs of more tax and spend arn't going to make us well, they are going to sink us deeper. Government is the problem, not the solution.

Sniper-
What's the solution?

"What's the solution?"

Well, it ain't MORE government. When someone has the solution, will you please enter the race for president? (Not YOU, Danni.)

Is government bad in general?

""Government is the problem, not the solution.""

Government is about the only tool we have to effect the economy. You can whine that "big government" is the problem but surprisingly the problems with the economy always seem to arrive towards the end of Republican administrations.
Coincidence????
Personally, I don't believe in coincidences.

When you consider if a bank could make a profit lending money at 1% interest then is it really even a question if the interest rates were used to prop up Bush's economy???

Is government bad in general?



Without some form of government you have anarchy. Whether it be a tribal community or a western style of government there will always be society and the need for government.

When you see the efforts the government has done to hide the true rate of inflation it is readily apparent that it was nothing more than a shell game and now the game is up.

""When you see the efforts the government""

Let's be specific, "the Bush administration" should replace "the government."
Just a reminder to a cynical nation....all governments, all administrations are not as corrupt, as incompetent, and misguided as the Bush administration.

"Is government bad in general?"

Hell yeah. Look at how great things go when you have weak or non-existent central government, i.e., Afghanistan, Somalia, the Sudan, etc.

Tell y'all what, I'll ask you how you feel about old Greeniespan in about a year or so. If you still have a home, with electricity and a computer then I'll be interested in what you think should be done with him then. BTW, at least old Greeniespan was honest about the Iraq war while none of the neocon liars would be...."it's about oil, I thought everyone knew that."
What a guy!
I sure hope the parents of those 4,000 dead American troops feel that their sacrifice was worth it so that some idiot can drive a 10 mpg SUV.

Posted by danni at 2008-01-17 10:06 AM |


You're mentally/emotionally stunted. AKA retarded. I support the death penalty to rid society of someone who took a life and may take one again if allowed to roam society freely. It's not revenge it's prudence.

Killing a bureacrat that will never again be in charge of what he once was serves no purpose.

As I've already said. You'r so full of hate all you care to seek is revenge, which serves no purpose.

Translation, you're sick.

How is this news? What the hell do you think happens when you create money out of thin air, like the Federal Reserve does?

Ron Paul 2008.

""Translation, you're sick.""

No, the real translation is you are too stupid to recognize sarcasm. But hey, what else is new?

As if I really wanted to kill Greenspan, especially by hanging him....geez...

BTW, I really shouldn't have bothered to explain this to you but I sometimes do feel pity for people who just don't seem to be working with a full deck.

BTW, I really shouldn't have bothered to explain this to you but I sometimes do feel pity for people who just don't seem to be working with a full deck.

Posted by danni at 2008-01-17 02:53 PM

Must...resist...obvious...reto rt...

Aw, fuck it:

Danni, self pity is a terrible thing.

"Must...resist...obvious...ret
o rt...

Aw, fuck it:"

LOL...did you not say something on another thread about my comments to sweet Danni??? I know, I know...it's very trying. Sometimes it's impossible to hold it back.

Take away ethanol and food is allot cheaper.

Without food and gas inflation is a little over 2%.

Gas is high because OPEC cut production just to raise prices and China's consumption has risen.

"Without food and gas inflation is a little over 2%."

And what about health insurance? Up a little over 2%, is it?

surprisingly the problems with the economy always seem to arrive towards the end of Republican administrations.

Posted by danni

Seems to me the last downturn we had was at the end of Clintons term. It started long before the 9/11/01 disaster. It started long before Bush was elected. I guess Clinton was a republican according to danni.

Inflation is really about 10% but some how the government propaganda experts have you all believing it is around 2%.

How much does the average car cost? When the new show car that cost 2600 dollars than there will be no inflation on vehicles, in fact, there will be a gain.

"When the new show car that cost 2600 dollars than there will be no inflation on vehicles, in fact, there will be a gain."

Does anyone actually know what that means?

Does anyone actually know what that means?

Apparently your such an inflation KING, it's a surprise you don't know what it means.

Might try looking up inflation and how it is figured, alternate product prices and cheaper single products because everyone in mass uses those alternates and will flock to the 2600 dollar car.

I don't think the the definition of inflation was the source of Bill's confusion.

"LOL...did you not say something on another thread about my comments to sweet Danni??? I know, I know...it's very trying. Sometimes it's impossible to hold it back.

Posted by jestgettinalong at 2008-01-17 04:05 PM"

Yeah, he said you were a dick.

He was right.

"it's a surprise you don't know what it means."

No...I mean in English.

No...I mean in English.

What? Are you French? You need it in stupidfied English! Must be a product of no child left behind.

What? Are you French? You need it in stupidfied English! Must be a product of no child left behind.

Posted by moneywar

Translation.....I can't explain my own gibberish.

"Must be a product of no child left behind."

Actually, I skipped a grade (8th), and was offered to skip another two.

You were saying...?

I was listening to the news this morning and Pelosi said Congress had to figure out a way to get money in the pockets of low income citizens who will spend it.

Hey! Define low income and please tell me why only the money spent by low income citizens will address the problem.

Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years

How ironic. Bush's daddy got us in the same boat 17 years ago.

How ironic

I don't think it is ironic, just stupid economic policies.

why only the money spent by low income citizens will address the problem.


The probable thinking is that low income people will spend it while high income people will save it.

After all to defeat the terrawrists we need to go shopping. Bush said so.

Paul Volker advocates one world currency.....



The dollar USED to be the one world currency. Republican policies of the last 27 years have changed all that.

Without food and gas inflation is a little over 2%.


Try living without either of those.

"Without food and gas inflation is a little over 2%."

Probably if you figure in the amount that our homes have decreased in value it does offset many other commodities that continue to rise in value.
It's the worst case scenario, prices rising while equity falls. Middle America is caught in the middle and it's beginning to hurt folks who were quite secure just a year or so ago.
Hence bipartisan discussion of checks to average Americans regardless of the inflationary consequences. Ultimate in election pandering....
Now the only argument will be which party will print money faster

You people who find solace in Republican or Democrat policy are fools. The only reason the two parties exist is to create the illusion of choice.

This countries belligerent policies have followed one parties dominance after the other.

Capital, labor, technology and resources operate together to create prosperity. The Japanese proved you can do without resources, but the other three are indispensible. The interests of Capital and Labor are always at odds.

Honest political discourse and Government power is needed to prevent predatory Capitalists from destroying poor people in order to grow their bank accounts. Without Government oversight, society reverts to its natural state of jungle law.

Those that control vaste amounts of Capital can keep workers in a near death state to maximize profits. This is the way it is in most of the world and our society has regressed into that state in the past. We should not let it happen again.

With few exceptions, Democrats and Republicans alike depend on Capitalists that fund and pocket advertising revenues to stay in power. In order to stay in power both sides understand the need to limit debate within a narrow set of assumptions, including the central lie that the private sector does everything better and cheaper.

Bush has embraced privatization of everything, war, energy, health, education, retirement, justice, incarceration. In doing so he is acting in the best interests of his contributors, not the country or the majority of its citizens. This has cost 99.999% of the population dearly in wealth and life while enriching the other .001 enormously.

All it takes is legalized bribery, a poorly informed electorate, gerrymandering, and vote rigging.

Ammo + gold and silver.

During the Great Depression, the government was coming from a low state of debt. This time, any spending increases inflation, adds to their already massive debt and kills the dollar. Everything they do will make this collapse worse and longer.

Posted by Ray

been adding to my silver hoard..it will be extremely valuable in the coming years due to the industrial applications and the fact over 1/2 of the mineable silver is permanently gone.

I think gold is overbought at these levels and with the coming recession/depression commodities will also decline.

ammo on the otherhand is always useful.

Gold and silver doesn't mean shit to the economy, stop living in the delusion of 80 years ago.

Posted by moneywar

hey dumbass.. there isn't a product you own that doesn't use one of these 2 metals. WITH ROHS standards being implemented in urope and the US silver solder and contacts will be the norm.

gold is used as a coating on the leads and pads of almost every pcb in the marketplace.

I don't think you can legally buy gold or silver bars any longer, everything is delivered to you on "paper" so try taking that down to the grocery store.

Posted by 726

try try again..I prefer bars and coins.

Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years

How ironic. Bush's daddy got us in the same boat 17 years ago.

Posted by AMERICANUNITY

sorry son.. but that was a democratic congress as well. don't look to the president as the source of all evil although this one comes close..

try try again..I prefer bars and coins.


Yes, we already covered that yesterday. Thanks for playing.

If they want people to spend this money, they should give it out in gift cards to guarantee it will get spent (since that seems to be what they want the taxpayers to do with it). And give it to the people who paid taxes. Not to those who didn't contribute to the coffers.

Just my opinion.

""If they want people to spend this money, they should give it out in gift cards to guarantee it will get spent""

What if all the money had to be spent on products or services created in the US???

Bush has embraced privatization of everything, war, energy, health, education, retirement, justice, incarceration. In doing so he is acting in the best interests of his contributors, not the country or the majority of its citizens. This has cost 99.999% of the population dearly in wealth and life while enriching the other .001 enormously.


All it takes is legalized bribery, a poorly informed electorate, gerrymandering, and vote rigging.

Posted by nutcase at 2008-01-18 09:51 AM |


All the reasons most americans drive cars less than 5 years old, have large flat screen tv's and are 30 lbs. overweight.
Bush has grown government not shrunk it.

What if all the money had to be spent on products or services created in the US???


Posted by danni at 2008-01-18 01:03 PM |


We've already had a prescription drug benefit. What else do we produce?

Oh that's right, American made cars full of parts manufactured in mexico, japan, turkey and other fledgeling paradises.

I almost forgot. Financial stocks in corporations that lend buyers more than they can afford.

Sorry Danni, we're a nation of consumers and it's sucking the life out of us.

Are you going to hit a lick today or just waste the whole day here?

Stocks down again. At the rate they're going, they'll be below what they were when Clinton left before Bush leaves.
and that's not considering inflation and the collapsing dollar.

Gotta love that Bush growth plan!

Don't worry though, I am sure that he will be just fine once he leaves office. A book deal. A few speaking engagements at a couple of million a pop.

So don't worry about Georgie boy.

BTW, I really shouldn't have bothered to explain this to you but I sometimes do feel pity for people who just don't seem to be working with a full deck.

Posted by danni at 2008-01-17 02:53 PM | Reply

Let charity (and your self pity) begin in your own trailer.

I have good news...

Despite its mediocrity, today's report on Industrial output was a relief to those fearing a recession. Rather than dropping like the consensus
expected, industrial production was unchanged in December. In addition, output was revised up for October/November, due to mining and utilities rather than manufacturing.

Note that the production of business equipment had a second straight strong month, which is not the kind of activity we would see in a recession or immediately before one. Given the intense problems in home building, I'm satisfied by the 1.1% gain in manufacturing output versus last year (1.5% excluding motor vehicles) and expect stronger gains in the year ahead after home building finally hits bottom later in 2008.

Regarding the Fed and interest rates:
The Federal Reserve cannot afford to treat inflation as a back-page story. Consumer prices rose 0.3% in December, bringing the total 2007 increase to 4.1%, more than any calendar year since 1990.

At 4.1% consumer inflation is higher than the yield on the 10-year Treasury, and that's before investors pay taxes on the interest. Since 1960, and with the exception of Hurricanes Katrina/Rita, a negative real pre-tax interest rate on the 10-year Treasury has only happened in 1973-80, not a model period for fighting inflation. Even core consumer prices are accelerating, with ex-food/energy prices up at a 2.7% annual rate in the past three months. Investors should not be complacent about inflation, despite the low inflation expectations built into Treasury yields.

The decline in producer prices in December was tiny compared to the massive one-month 3.2% spike in November, meaning the US still has an inflation problem. Producer prices are up 6.8% versus
a year ago.

With gold trading at $900 an ounce, oil prices in the $90-$100 range, and the foreign exchange value of the dollar very weak, I feel it
will be a huge mistake if the Fed drops rates further. I hope the new Fed administration will soon wake up and do what is needed. We'll
know by the end of next week how all of this will effect next months 72t calculation rates. EMail me if you 'd like an update on that.

The recent retail sales reports were weak but is not even close to suggesting a consumer-led recession. The weakest categories were building materials and gas. The former is driven by home builders, not
consumers; the latter is driven by price changes, not volume. These figures are consistent with real consumption growth of about 2.5% in Q4, neither strong nor weak and just slightly below the 2.8% consumption growth rate in Q3. Looking ahead, I believe retail sales will pick up due to solid income gains for 2007 and 2008.

The sky is NOT falling! Don't always believe everything you read and hear. As I have reminded my friends in the past, the MEDIA is seldom right! Relax... go fishing and enjoy your days here on God's wondrous world.

The sky is NOT falling!

Yes it is.
Take off the Bush rose-colored glasses and look up.

The sky is NOT falling! Don't always believe everything you read and hear....Relax... .... go fishing and enjoy your days here on God's wondrous world....

...while you can still afford to buy a rowboat.

Inflation Rate Worst in 17 Years

Gold and silver don't spoil. BTW, they ain't making gasoline out of corn either. How many ethanol ready cars do you own? How many gas stations in your area sell ethanol? In mine.... NONE.

Posted by 726

10% is mandated in Wisconsin. And no, I don't own an ethonol ready car. The 10% blend fucks my vehicles up just fine. But I'm sure with a Democratic President in 08, I'll be told what to drive.

Who was the President 17 years ago?

Anyone?

"It's kept the prices of gold and silver at the bargain prices of the century. So much money floating around trying to find safety. So little gold and silver. Don't let this once in a century opportunity pass by.

Posted by Ray at 2008-01-16 10:49 PM"

Hasn't the price tripled (or more?) since 2001?

Personally, I like buying land. Not speculating on some condo project in the Phoenix suburbs, but Oregon coast and high desert land. I can't imagine that will be a bad investment over the long haul, and if worse comes to worst, I can always live on it.

BTW, with oil high in price, all of our durable goods will go up in price (most use plastics, plastics need oil, shipping, etc), above and beyond the inflation. This takes a while to trickle down, but we will get hit and hard- especially with a weak dollar.